Yeah, so is Clemson's number of #1 appearances.Clemson in general REALLY stood out to me when I compiled this. In the five years of the CFP they only barely trail Bama in CFP game appearances (7 vs Bama's 9) and CFP wins (5 vs Bama's 6) and they are WAY ahead of everybody else. Looking at these longer-term figures demonstrates just how far ahead of their "norm" Clemson is lately.
| 35 | October 10, 1964 | Athens, GA | Georgia | 19–7 |
| 36 | October 9, 1965 | Athens, GA | # (Number)4 Georgia | 23–9 |
| 37 | September 30, 1967 | Clemson, SC | # (Number)5 Georgia | 24–17 |
| 38 | September 28, 1968 | Athens, GA | Georgia | 31–13 |
| 39 | September 27, 1969 | Clemson, SC | # (Number)7 Georgia | 30–0 |
| 40 | September 26, 1970 | Athens, GA | Georgia | 38–0 |
| 41 | September 25, 1971 | Clemson, SC | # (Number)14 Georgia | 28–0 |
| 42 | September 22, 1973 | Athens, GA | Georgia | 31–14 |
| 43 | October 5, 1974 | Clemson, SC | Clemson | 28–24 |
| 44 | October 4, 1975 | Athens, GA | Georgia | 35–7 |
| 45 | September 18, 1976 | Clemson, SC | # (Number)9 Georgia | 41–0 |
| 2015 (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/schedule.cfm?seasonid=2015) | 12/31 (Orange (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/research/bowls.cfm?BowlID=1)) | Miami Gardens | L (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/box-score.cfm?GameID=1233) | 17 | 37 | 67,615 | 11-1 | #4 | 13-0 | #1 | ACC | Swinney (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/coaches/opp/details.cfm?oppcoachid=355) | ||
| 2014 (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/schedule.cfm?seasonid=2014) | 12/29 (Russell Athletic (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/research/bowls.cfm?BowlID=14)) | Orlando | L (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/box-score.cfm?GameID=1220) | 6 | 40 | 40,071 | 8-4 | NR | 9-3 | #18 | ACC | Swinney (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/coaches/opp/details.cfm?oppcoachid=355) | ||
| 1988 (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/schedule.cfm?seasonid=1988) | 1/2 (Capital One (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/research/bowls.cfm?BowlID=7)) | Orlando | L (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/recap.cfm?GameID=894) | 6 | 13 | 53,571 | 9-2 | #10 | 9-2 | #13 | ACC | Ford (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/coaches/opp/details.cfm?oppcoachid=246) | ||
| 1972 (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/schedule.cfm?seasonid=1972) | 9/30 | Norman | W (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/box-score.cfm?GameID=695) | 52 | 3 | 61,210 | 2-0 | #2 | 1-1 | NR | ACC | Ingram (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/coaches/opp/details.cfm?oppcoachid=245) | ||
| 1963 (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/seasons/schedule.cfm?seasonid=1963) | 9/21 | Norman | W (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/games/box-score.cfm?GameID=596) | 31 | 14 | 62,034 | 0-0 | #4 | 0-0 | NR | ACC | Howard (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/coaches/opp/details.cfm?oppcoachid=244) | ||
Clemson trying to do what Florida St didI think they have passed that vague point of possible return. They recruit like crazy now. I know that could erode if Dabo departs of course, but it would take a while for them to drop back to full mediocrity I think. That said, perceptions change fast these days. How often do "we" think about FSU relative to Oklahoma or Ohio State or Alabama these days? They aren't on our radar, and that would be true for many recruits I suspect.
we'll see if Dabo stays as long as Bowden
I understand better than most that Nebraska hasn't been a national player for nearly 2 decades and some youngsters don't cornsider them a "helmet" any longer, but....I like Nebraska and I loved the Sharkwater tailgate there back in 2011. That said, the thing that makes me question Nebraska's "Helmetosity" isn't just the recent swoon, it is the fact that they weren't consistently very good before Bob Devaney either. I noted in the more B1G-centric (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/the-14-current-b1g-members-in-83-years-of-ap-polls-(1936-2018)/) thread that Nebraska was mostly nationally irrelevant in the first 28 years of AP Polls (40 appearances, 16 top-10's, and no top-5's in 284 polls from 1936-1963).
no lower than #7 in all 4 lists in the first post
I think they have passed that vague point of possible return. They recruit like crazy now. I know that could erode if Dabo departs of course, but it would take a while for them to drop back to full mediocrity I think. That said, perceptions change fast these days. How often do "we" think about FSU relative to Oklahoma or Ohio State or Alabama these days? They aren't on our radar, and that would be true for many recruits I suspect.Perceptions for recruits change fast because their frame of reference is so small.
Perceptions for recruits change fast because their frame of reference is so small.true, but recruits are also influenced by others around them
I like Nebraska and I loved the Sharkwater tailgate there back in 2011. That said, the thing that makes me question Nebraska's "Helmetosity" isn't just the recent swoon, it is the fact that they weren't consistently very good before Bob Devaney either. I noted in the more B1G-centric (https://www.cfb51.com/big-ten/the-14-current-b1g-members-in-83-years-of-ap-polls-(1936-2018)/) thread that Nebraska was mostly nationally irrelevant in the first 28 years of AP Polls (40 appearances, 16 top-10's, and no top-5's in 284 polls from 1936-1963).Oklahoma was even worse than you thought, Medina. There was another swoon in there during the 1960s. Bud Wilkinson tailed off toward the end of his tenure at OU, starting in 1959. He went 7-3, 3-6-1, and 5-5, then recovered to go 8-2 and 8-3. He retired after the '63 season. For the rest of the decade, under Gomer Jones, Jim McKenzie, and Chuck Fairbanks, the Sooners went 38-28-1. So, from '59 through '69, OU's record was 69-42-2. We had a 1-12 record against Texas that overlapped that span by one year on each end. Not as bad as the '90s, but not helmet-worthy either.
My view is that a PROGRAM that is a true helmet program doesn't need a great coach to be nationally relevant. I have my doubts about Nebraska because substantially all of their success came under just two coaches: Bob Devaney and Tom Osborne.
Devaney arrived for the 1962 season and the Cornhuskers went 9-2 that year. Prior to that they hadn't finished above .500 since going 6-5 in 1954. They hadn't finished with eight or more wins since going 8-2 in 1940, and they hadn't won nine or more games since going 10-0 in 1903.
Devaney, Osborne, and Solich* coached Nebraska for 42 consecutive years during which winning "only" nine games in a season was a bad year. Outside of that a nine win season at Nebraska is REALLY good.
Schools like Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and a few others have achieved high levels of success under many different coaches.
Another way to look at it, and one that ELA typically advocates, is to look at a program's ability to recover from a major downturn. Ohio State is hard to measure on this metric because the Buckeyes are, by far, the most consistently successful program at least since WWII. Alabama and Oklahoma, however, have each faced serious and extended downturns then recovered to get right back to being football powerhouses. Alabama was basically terrible for 11 years from 1997-2007 and look at them now. Oklahoma had a similar swoon from 1989-1999 then got right back to being a NC contender.
For the last 17 years (2002-2018) the Cornhuskers have been, for the most part, nationally irrelevant. Here are their 2002-2018 AP stats:What your analysis about Nebraska may be missing is that Nebraska was a very solid program prior to the polling era. Per my manual crunching of the numbers, the Huskers prior to 1938 were 270-86-28, with 23 conference championships. The great Dana X. Bible coached there for 8 years, going 50-15-7. The '40s and '50s were terrible decades for them. But by the late '60s, they were one of the best programs in the country, and were AP national champs in '70 and '71.
- 22nd in appearances with 126 out of 278 polls (45.3%)
- 33rd (tied with Mizzou, KSU, and USCe) with 24 top-10's out of 278 polls (8.6%)
- 44th (tied with Purdue and aTm) with one top-5 out of 278 polls (0.4%).
- Never ranked higher than #5.
I'm not pointing this out to pick on Nebraska. My point is that Bama (1997-2007) and Oklahoma (1989-1999) were not much better and they recovered. My question is whether or not Nebraska can do the same thing? I'm not taking a position on whether or not they can, I'm just pointing out the question.
If Scott Frost can take them back to consistently playing high-level football that will REALLY shore up Nebraska's Helmet status because it will mean that they have four highly successful coaches (Devaney, Osborne, Solich, Frost) and that they have successfully rebounded from a protracted downturn. If he can't, then I'll be waiting to see how the next guy does.
*Solich:
I hesitated to include Solich in my list of great Nebraska coaches because he obviously didn't succeed at the Devaney/Osobrne level and got fired. That said, his winning percentage is still third best among Nebraska coaches in the last 100+ years.
Oklahoma was even worse than you thought, Medina. There was another swoon in there during the 1960s. Bud Wilkinson tailed off toward the end of his tenure at OU, starting in 1959. He went 7-3, 3-6-1, and 5-5, then recovered to go 8-2 and 8-3. He retired after the '63 season. For the rest of the decade, under Gomer Jones, Jim McKenzie, and Chuck Fairbanks, the Sooners went 38-28-1. So, from '59 through '69, OU's record was 69-42-2. We had a 1-12 record against Texas that overlapped that span by one year on each end. Not as bad as the '90s, but not helmet-worthy either.I thought that OU had other downturns but I just did a cursory review and looked for the most recent one that fit my needs (had to last at least about a decade).
What your analysis about Nebraska may be missing is that Nebraska was a very solid program prior to the polling era. Per my manual crunching of the numbers, the Huskers prior to 1938 were 270-86-28, with 23 conference championships. The great Dana X. Bible coached there for 8 years, going 50-15-7. The '40s and '50s were terrible decades for them. But by the late '60s, they were one of the best programs in the country, and were AP national champs in '70 and '71.It is a fair point that Nebraska was pretty good pre-poll. I just find it a lot harder to quantify things from back then. Nebraska went 10-0 in 1902 but their opponents included Lincoln High, something called "Doane", Grinnell, Haskell, and Knox. Obviously Lincoln High is a High School and one would expect the local college to be better than the local HS even if the local college sucks relative to other colleges. I have no idea how impressive it is that in 1902 Nebraska beat Doane 51-0, Grinnell 17-0, Haskell 28-0, and Knox 7-0. The Cornhuskers went 11-0 in 1903 and the eleven opponents included Lincoln High, Haskell, and Knox again along with Grand Island, South Dakota, and Bellevue.
This is what we call high peak, and that's some lengthy peak. I'm not sure it is somehow more impressive if those 42 years were in 3 or 4 smaller non consecutive segments scattered from 1936 to today.Those 42 years are an incredible peak for Nebraska and it is all the more impressive because 42 years is a REALLY long time. Achieving that level of success over five, 10, or even 20 years would be a LOT less impressive to me.
All of this is fun with end points anyways.
Yeah, but look who they were playing.Yeah, but.
Up until 96, it was just Oklahoma and the Little Sisters. O0
I think history matters SOME to recruits, but obviously recent history matters much more, I think. A program that has a recent record of putting guys in the NFL at your position has to be attractive. A top recruit also evaluates the current lineup to assess whether he might get early PT. They talk about how they mesh with the coaches, but this may be just talk in many cases.I think most young kids that will be away from home for the first time want to have a good relationship with at least their position coach. If the chemistry just doesn't work for whatever reason they have other options that can get them to the NFL or provide the other things.
Yeah, and he may well see Oregon as the best place to get to the NFL.Based on what? Akili King? Joey Harrington? He obviously didn't go to Oregon because of their reputation for developing NFL QBs. His HC, Cristobal, was an OL coach.
That would not be an illogical conclusion on his part.
So in the 83 years of AP Polls, Nebraska has 42 years (1962-2003) of being absolutely the best program in the country and 41 years of being decidedly mediocre. Prior to the AP Poll they definitely had some success but that is harder to quantify.I was bored this morning...... not much traffic on the board
surprising that Ohio St and Oklahoma don't show up in the top 30We were lulling everyone else into a false sense of security
UGA used to play Yale fairly routinely in the 1920s, usually in New Haven, but Yale traveled down by train in 1929 to inaugurate Sanford Stadium. A lot of the UGA faculty came from Yale, and of course Yale adopted the Bulldog moniker from UGA, just as Green Bay copied our G.These facts can be found in 2 Thessalonians....
The Union even copied our fight song in the Civil War, but they changed the words.
I thought it was genuinely funny and that you'd blow a snot bubble laughing at it. Oh well.
I thought it was genuinely funny and that you'd blow a snot bubble laughing at it. Oh well.I laughed.
Vandy was solid