CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on August 24, 2018, 06:46:01 AM
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Maybe this is worth its own thread. I guess nobody would argue against it being highly important in CFB. Maybe.
Given the recent coaching changes (and suspension etc.), I was wondering how important it is in several aspects of the game. Obviously, there is recruiting, some coaches recruit better than others, or some programs do anyway. Part of that is simple geography.
There is selecting good assistants. The OC and DC positions may be in some ways more critical on GD, not sure.
There is game preparation, practice, film study, etc., much of which falls to the coordinators etc. Underlying this is overall scheme, up tempo, run clock, balance, whatever.
There is game day management, start to finish. And of course public relations.
Anything else? How much impact would it have on a competitive game for the head coach to be absent, but to have participated in every other aspect of the contest? I personally think a Spurrier on the sideline is worth say 3 points versus a Richt, but that is a guess. Maybe a Richt is a neutral factor, and some coaches are negatives. Is 3 points fair?
I'm not talking about playing Austin Peay, but a team that can beat you of course.
It's impressive to me how much the HC can change a program from mediocre to very good or excellent. Maybe some of this is random luck. Some isn't. Some coaches do well at every step on the ladder. A lot go from coordinator) to HC at a large program. Do we know if Kirby Smart is an excellent head coach yet? Or did he catch one season of lightning?
Spurrier is my example of a superb GD coach. It was if he could read the mind of his opponent. And his general offensive schemes were effective of course at least at Florida. He is said to be bored with recruiting, which I can understand. Smart has been superb at recruiting, but that could be geography to a large extent.
The coach at Purdue seems to have made a difference in a tough situation. Is he a great coach or just one who was a bit lucky? Urban Meyer has been very good at four programs. Saban has been very good at two, and mediocre at one. Spurrier was a bust in the NFL, as was Saban as I recall. How about Franklin, Harbaugh, Dantonio (who I think is excellent as a HC)?
Thoughts?
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FWIW, the line on OSU-TCU moved 2 points after the Urban suspension came out, and he's considered the 2nd best coach in the game.
That said, we are just talking about in game impact there. He's still doing all of the prep for that week, he still oversaw the recruiting of the entire roster, and the kids looking at signing with OSU are signing with Urban Meyer's program. So it's impossible to judge him totally removed.
I do think fit is important. RichRod didn't suddenly become a terrible coach once he reached Ann Arbor. Dantonio has done far better at MSU than Saban did, but Saban wasn't built for a place like MSU, nor do I think Dantonio would succeed at Alabama.
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We’re comparing different head coaches to each other, or the impact of not having one and the shuffling that happens?
The right head coach in the right spot could mean everything, but the reasons are defuse. Spurrier was really smart, but some of that was just seeing the game in a different way no one had thought of.
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I'm pondering the impact of a HC on Game Day. Let's stipulate Spurrier is one of the best (it doesn't matter if that is true) and say Orgeron is one of the worst. What is the point advantage conferred in that? Assume the teams are equally talented etc.
The OSU situation is slightly different, but I presume Day or whoever is a decently competent coach.
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We’re comparing different head coaches to each other, or the impact of not having one and the shuffling that happens?
The right head coach in the right spot could mean everything, but the reasons are defuse. Spurrier was really smart, but some of that was just seeing the game in a different way no one had thought of.
Everything here is accurate. I'll use our school as an example.
The guy in charge now is a perfect fit. The prior guy was the worst possible fit, but I wouldn't say he's a bad coach given what he did at Utah State. The prior guy to the prior guy was almost a great fit - take away the quirks and he's there.
Only one of these three has proven he could build a program, however. HCPC comes close, because he had to do a re-build after Gerry's two years, and was on his way to a rebuild at Pitt. He wasn't there long enough to see it through, but there were signs.
So, program builder, program manager, hiring manager, game manager, recruiter and baby sitter are all part of the job. Only a select few are "great" at all of those, but to win, you have to have a guy that is at least "good" at all of them.
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Good, and a great fit, as noted. I had not considered the fit aspect.
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I'm pondering the impact of a HC on Game Day. Let's stipulate Spurrier is one of the best (it doesn't matter if that is true) and say Orgeron is one of the worst. What is the point advantage conferred in that? Assume the teams are equally talented etc.
The OSU situation is slightly different, but I presume Day or whoever is a decently competent coach.
Using OSU as an example is pretty clear to me. 2010, Tessel's last year, OSU goes 12-1 and wins the Sugar Bowl. 2011, Tressel gone, Fickel in, OSU goes 6-7 and loses the Gator Bowl. 2012, Fickel gone, Urbie in, OSU goes 12-0 and sits home due to tattoos. So yeah, coaching matters, even at OSU.
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Were Fickell's game day decisions pivotal in those losses?
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Every loss but one was by one score, so, Fickell could have been the key factor. Of course the next season OSU blew out teams, so the "point differential" was a lot year over year. They also had 5 players suspended 5 games.
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In fact, in 2012 they had a lot of close wins over competitive teams.
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well, if the head coach is also the O coordinator and play caller such as Osborne or Frost it makes more of a difference obviously
Some head coaches are just much more hands on with the entire team and staff than others
another huge factor is the drop off to the next coach up that would assume the head coach position
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I'm thinking great game day coach versus average, how many points is that worth?
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For UW? about 35 points, give or take. HCPC calls all the plays.
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PC's teams didn't average 35 per game more than Gary Andersen's
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I'm thinking great game day coach versus average, how many points is that worth?
3 & 1/2
hell, who knows
first you'd have to come up with the list of great, vs the list of good, vs the list of average, vs the list of below average
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The best game day coach I watched was Spurrier. Dantonio also is up there from what I've seen.
I thought it was a weakness for Mark Richt, he's average at best in my view.
I think if we switched coaches (if they had prep time and all that), it would be a 7 point shift between UGA and USCe.
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Switched coaches?
Depends on who's doing the recruiting. One of those was better than the other at that stuff.
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I'm talking about impact on Game Day with the same teams (allowing each coach to learn his personnel of course).
Richt was by far the more successful coach mostly because of better recruiting (UGA vs USCe, not UF).
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really hard to tell
the best coaches eventually get the best talent
many times talent is not even
can't be too conservative, but then you need to have some luck with some calls