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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: LittlePig on October 27, 2024, 05:17:24 AM

Title: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 27, 2024, 05:17:24 AM
This is my first draft.  Some tweaks are coming later

1.  Oregon 
2.  Indiana
3.  Ohio St
4.  Penn St
5.  Iowa
6.  Wisconsin
7.  Illinois
8.  Michigan
9.  Mich St
10.  Minnesota
11.  Nebraska
12.  Washington
13.  USC
14.  MD
15.  UCLA
16.  NW
17.  Rutgers
18.  Purdue
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: Temp430 on October 27, 2024, 07:22:01 AM
1. Oregon
2. Indiana
3. Penn State
4. Ohio State
5. Illinois 
6. Iowa
7. Washington 
8. Michigan 
9. Nebraska
10. Wisconsin
11. Michigan State
12. USC
13. Minnesota 
14. Rutgers
15. Maryland 
16. UCLA
17. Northwestern 
18. Purdue
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 27, 2024, 07:36:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Bk2SqM8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: Benthere2 on October 27, 2024, 09:07:10 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mB9FMpd.png)
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: Badger1969 on October 27, 2024, 01:46:41 PM
1. Oregon
2. Indiana
3. Penn State
4. Ohio State
5. Illinois 
6. Iowa
7. Michigan 
8. Nebraska
9. Washington 
10. Wisconsin
11. Michigan State
12. USC
13. Minnesota 
14. Rutgers
15. Maryland 
16. UCLA
17. Northwestern 
18. Purdue
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on October 27, 2024, 06:50:26 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on October 27, 2024, 07:36:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Bk2SqM8.jpeg)
Purdue and Northwestern? 

Does either even know how to play? 
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: MrNubbz on October 27, 2024, 08:02:17 PM
1)Ducks barring injury they'll prolly finish here
2)Lions beat USC/UW on the road - at nite and undefeated
3)Hoosiers using the Huskers as the metric
4)tOSU congrats Day your behind the Hoosiers

5)Gophs
6)Illini
7)Badgers
8)'Skers
9)Wolverines
10)hawkeyes
The rest,c'mon up to the Big Boy table
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 28, 2024, 11:36:54 AM
1. Penn State
2. Oregon
3. Ohio State
4. Indiana
5. Illinois
6. Iowa
7. Wisconsin
8. Washington
9. Minnesota
10. Nebraska
11. Michigan
12. Michigan State
13. USC
14. Rutgers
15. Maryland
16. UCLA
17. Northwestern
18. Purdue
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2024, 07:29:32 PM
Check out the every B1G line for Week 10 here, via Circa Sports:

Northwestern at Purdue (-2)
Minnesota at Illinois (-3)
Indiana (-6) at Michigan State
USC (pk) at Washington
Wisconsin at Iowa (-4)
UCLA at Nebraska (-9)
Oregon (-15) at Michigan
Ohio State (-3) at Penn State
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 28, 2024, 08:11:53 PM
For years I did a chart of schedule/performance and I missed my chart so I made it for this year:
(https://i.imgur.com/PJ0jrXa.png)

As per usual, some results just don't make sense.  
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 28, 2024, 10:27:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/tvNJhb8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 29, 2024, 12:12:12 PM
1) Oregon: yes, I've been giving OSU the benefit of the cross-country travel doubt, and the same thing applies to beating Illinois at home, but...
2) PSU: a complete team that doesn't appear flashy, but their quarterbacks are strong and their defense is legit. They will be in every game they play, even against the best teams in the country.
3) Ohio State: not a great result against Nebraska in the Horse Shoe. Sure, teams have bad days, but teams already with a loss get punished for another not-so-great performance, even if it's a win.
4) Indiana: obviously.
5) Iowa: because this is where Iowa lives. And that was a quality win over Northwestern.
6) Illinois: can't punish them too much for a loss on the other side of the country against a really good team.
7) Wisconsin: with a clear gap between #4 and #5, I'm not overly disturbed by the loss to Penn State. But I do want to see fewer Locke interceptions.
8) Michigan: it wasn't a blowout, but it was a win.
9) Michigan State: the question is whether to move USC up with its win. Not with the losses to Maryland and Minnesota, and a similar score line against Michigan.
10) USC: hard to play in Los Angeles. Not as hard to play in Big Ten territory.
11) Washington: lost to a team several steps above it. Doesn't move it down.
12) Nebraska: moving them up following a loss over a team that just won? That was a tough effort in Columbus. Showed some grit.
13) Minnesota: moving them down after a win? They were playing Maryland.
14) Northwestern: lost, but I'm not moving UCLA up for sitting on the couch.
15) UCLA: still might be better than the record indicates. 
16) Rutgers: traveling across the country is hard, yes, but the bloom is off the rose.
17) Maryland: just not very good, even with the win against USC.
18) Purdue: just happy to have the week off.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2024, 05:43:07 PM
Quote from: SFBadger96 on October 29, 2024, 12:12:12 PM
5) Iowa: because this is where Iowa lives. And that was a quality win over Northwestern.
6) Illinois: can't punish them too much for a loss on the other side of the country against a really good team.
So, I was all set to dispute this because my thinking was that the Illini are an obvious #5 but then I looked at it and I can see a credible argument either way.  From my table above:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rqf0HAY.png)
The reason I was thinking that Illinois was an obvious #5 was that their losses are about as good as it gets.  They lost road games to two of the best teams in the league.  Granted they weren't all that competitive (especially the Oregon loss) but neither was Iowa's loss in Columbus and obviously Iowa's double-digit loss in East Lansing is a LOT worse than Illinois' double-digit loss in Happy Valley.  So far, the Illini are an obvious choice.  The sticking point is that the Illini needed OT to beat Purdue at home.  How is that even possible?  Purdue is 0-4 and in their other three games they lost:
Illinois should have blown the Boilermakers off the field but they only barely won.  How?  


Frankly, I think the outliers just have to be ignored once they are definitively identified.  Pretty much every team has one or two:

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 29, 2024, 05:58:45 PM
I agree that all the teams seem to have a WTH game. So assuming that one shouldn't read too much into that one game, what else do we know about them?

For Wisconsin, we know that the Badgers suck in the second half against helmet teams. 
To me the struggle comes with the three helmet teams at the bottom: how bad are Michigan, Washington, and USC, really? How much of their seasons so far is bad luck, too much travel, etc.

Any time (with the exception of the RichRod years) that I have Wisconsin above Michigan on these things, I think to myself: would I really favor Wisconsin in that matchup at a neutral site? (Irony alert, one of the worst RR Michigan teams ever still somehow beat a decent Wisconsin team. I'm literally shaking my head over that one right now.) The answer is usually "no." Michigan just has too many good athletes. I assume the same thing is true about Washington and USC, but I don't know them as well. USC surely always has a bunch of glitz and glamor around it.

Also, that 2008 Wisconsin team is still such a puzzle. That team was loaded defensivley as Badger talent goes. And it massively underperformed.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 29, 2024, 06:20:38 PM
It's not just that ILL beat Pur in OT,  but that 2 of their Big Ten wins are in OT.  Really the only solid win ILL has is against Mich.

I have found it helps my peace of mind to treat OT games as ties when it comes to power rankings. 

But now that I think about it a little more,  the winning team did win the tiebreaker,  so they should get a small edge over the team that lost the tiebreaker.  So maybe the winning team gets credit for 60% of a win and the losing team gets credit for 40% of a win.

So ILL conference record really is only 2.2 - 2.8 instead of 3-2  Neb is really 2.4 - 2.6 instead of 2-3.  Pur is really 0.4 - 3.6 instead of 0-4. 

Lol,  does that make any sense at all?
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 29, 2024, 06:31:41 PM
games decided by 7 or less are slightly better than ties
especially if the stats are close

the winning team makes a play or two, the refs make a call or 2, the ball bounces with a little luck

2 evenly matched teams

is one team better because they won a 3 point game?

yes, they were that day for 60 minutes, but perhaps not for the season

yet, we mostly rank them by number of losses
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2024, 06:32:25 PM
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2024, 05:43:07 PM
  • PU - As bad as they have been in their other games, how did they push Illinois to OT in Champaign? 
As bad as they have been in their last ~30 seasons, how have they amassed such a surprising conference record against OSU? 
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2024, 11:11:13 PM
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 29, 2024, 06:32:25 PM
As bad as they have been in their last ~30 seasons, how have they amassed such a surprising conference record against OSU?
Yeah, we've covered this at length and it is weird because for as bad as they've been, they just play well against Ohio State.  

Per your ~30 seasons, I'll use PSU's first in the league and go 1993-2023.  In that time, here is Purdue's record against each of the teams that have been in the league for that entire time:

From 1993-2023 Ohio State was far-and-away the best team in the league so, in theory, Purdue should have their worst record against the Buckeyes but they are actually worse against Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State.  

Here is Ohio State's:

Here is it even more strange because this suggests that Purdue has been the fourth best team in the league behind only tOSU, M, and PSU.  

Also in this time-frame, Ohio State is a perfect 6-0 against Notre Dame with two wins each at home, on the road, and in bowls.  Purdue's record against Notre Dame is 5-18 or .217.  Against Notre Dame the Boilermakers are 4-7 in West Lafayette, 1-10 in South Bend, and 0-1 in Indianapolis.  
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2024, 11:37:56 PM
Using my table of performance, some thoughts then my ranking:

Amongst the top-4, I think there is a credible argument for any of the four at any of the top-4 spots:

I think Illinois should be next simply because their losses are on the road to teams above.  However, I hesitate here because they needed OT to win at home over Purdue and also beat UNL in OT so they are two plays from being 1-4.  

Iowa is Iowa, here they are.  

I'm really hesitant to put Michigan this low because, as an Ohio State fan, I fear them more than Illinois, Iowa, or Indiana.  I also think that they have a credible chance to beat Oregon this weekend because Oregon can't simply out-talent them across the board.  That said, Michigan also looks like a team that could lose to Purdue, because their offense is just woeful.  

Wisconsin's blowouts of lesser teams are great and the 15 point loss to PSU isn't THAT bad because PSU looks to be a contender but OTOH, they got drilled by USC.  

I think each of USC's bad results are individually understandable but there are just too many of them which is why I have them here, below a team that they drilled.  

I'll go with Nebraska over MSU because for now their only common opponent is Ohio State and obviously the Cornhuskers kept that closer than the Spartans.  

Minnesota has a lot of close games and that makes them hard to rank.  

Washington because other than the Rutgers loss, they look pretty good.  

Northwestern because they have the best win of the bottom teams (by 27 at Maryland).  

UCLA because road wins are hard and they managed to win in Jersey.  

I'll go with Maryland over Rutgers due to better against common opponent USC.  

Purdue, it is just bad.  The OT loss to IL is by far their best performance of the year and frankly this weekend's game against Northwestern may be their last chance to avoid going 0-fer this year.  

So that is:

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2024, 10:30:39 AM
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 29, 2024, 11:11:13 PM
Yeah, we've covered this at length and it is weird because for as bad as they've been, they just play well against Ohio State. 

Per your ~30 seasons, I'll use PSU's first in the league and go 1993-2023.  In that time, here is Purdue's record against each of the teams that have been in the league for that entire time:
  • .720, 18-7 vs IL
  • .633, 19-11 vs IU
  • .536, 15-13 vs MN
  • .500, 13-13 vs NU
  • .405, 8-12-1 vs MSU
  • .380, 9-15-1 vs IA
  • .250, 5-15 vs tOSU
  • .211, 4-15 vs M
  • .173, 4-21-1 vs UW
  • .111, 2-16 vs PSU

From 1993-2023 Ohio State was far-and-away the best team in the league so, in theory, Purdue should have their worst record against the Buckeyes but they are actually worse against Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn State. 

Here is Ohio State's:
  • 1.000, 27-0 vs IU
  • .947, 18-1 vs MN
  • .944, 17-1 vs NU
  • .867, 13-2 vs IA
  • .818, 18-4 vs IL
  • .800, 20-5 vs MSU
  • .771, 18-5-1 vs UW
  • .750, 15-5 vs PU
  • .742, 23-8 vs PSU
  • .633, 19-11 vs M

Here is it even more strange because this suggests that Purdue has been the fourth best team in the league behind only tOSU, M, and PSU. 

Also in this time-frame, Ohio State is a perfect 6-0 against Notre Dame with two wins each at home, on the road, and in bowls.  Purdue's record against Notre Dame is 5-18 or .217.  Against Notre Dame the Boilermakers are 4-7 in West Lafayette, 1-10 in South Bend, and 0-1 in Indianapolis. 
You typed a lot of info when I only posted that to do two things:



There could be more than a few things that happened. Maybe Purdue just had a good day and Illinois a terrible one. Purdue's been so bad that I haven't followed them much, but IIRC it was the first start for a new QB after Card was benched (injured? idk) and maybe Illinois had no film on the new QB. Maybe they just started feeling some success in the second half and were on a roll, playing above their ability. 

It's the law of large numbers. 130 FBS teams. Maybe 50+ games a week after byes/scheduling. Every once in a while, a team is going to do something they shouldn't. Let's not make narratives out of it. It's just the inherent randomness of life and sport. 
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 30, 2024, 11:00:28 AM
Quote from: betarhoalphadelta on October 30, 2024, 10:30:39 AM
You typed a lot of info when I only posted that to do two things:

  • To needle OSU fans for their bizarre, weird, uncharacteristically bad performance against a team that shouldn't ever even challenge them.
  • To point out that in college football, weird things happen. Yeah, a terrible Purdue team inexplicably took Illinois to OT. Just like a historically overmatched Purdue team has amassed the 3rd-best conference record against the best team in the league over the past 30 years.


There could be more than a few things that happened. Maybe Purdue just had a good day and Illinois a terrible one. Purdue's been so bad that I haven't followed them much, but IIRC it was the first start for a new QB after Card was benched (injured? idk) and maybe Illinois had no film on the new QB. Maybe they just started feeling some success in the second half and were on a roll, playing above their ability.

It's the law of large numbers. 130 FBS teams. Maybe 50+ games a week after byes/scheduling. Every once in a while, a team is going to do something they shouldn't. Let's not make narratives out of it. It's just the inherent randomness of life and sport.
Oh, I get it.  

I made a chart once of each teams' record against each of the others.  Now theoretically each team should be worst against tOSU then Michigan, etc and best against IU, etc.  I think nearly all of them had at least one that was just out-of-whack.  

Applied to this year it is why I said upthread that I think the outliers need to be identified and then basically ignored when doing Power Rankings.  PU/IL is an outlier.  Purdue hasn't looked that good in any of their other games nor has Illinois looked that bad in any of theirs.  
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 30, 2024, 12:38:07 PM
I'm sure I did this before but I couldn't find it so here it is again.  What this is:
30 years (1993-2022) records against each of the teams that were in the Big11Ten/B1G for all of that time.  Note that for ease of computation I treated ties as 0.5 W and 0.5 L.  Here are the winning percentages:
(https://i.imgur.com/OAwvwrT.png)
This is sorted such that the best teams are at the top/Left (tOSU followed by M then PSU, etc) and the worst teams are at the bottom/Right (Indiana led by Illinois then MN, etc).  Consequently for each team, they should have their worst % at the top and their best at the bottom.  

Example, Ohio State:
Over the 30 seasons from 1993-2022 the Buckeyes had the best Big11Ten/B1G record by a comfortable margin.  Their worst record was against Michigan which makes sense since Michigan was #2.  Ohio State's best record (a perfect 26-0) was against Indiana which also makes sense since Indiana was #11 (by a big margin).  

Looking through it:
Ohio State:
Underperformed against PU and IL.  Overperformed against Iowa.  

Michigan:
Underperformed against UW and MSU.  

Penn State:
Underperformed against Iowa and Minnesota.  

Wisconsin:
Overperformed against M, overperformed against PU.  

Iowa:
Underperformed against tOSU (yeah, that should be their worst but they should be better than THAT).  Overperformed against PSU.  

MSU:
Overperformed against M.  Underperformed against IU.  

Northwestern:
Underperformed against MSU.  

Purdue:
Overperformed against tOSU and, to a lesser extent, Michigan.  Underperformed against UW and IU.  

Minnesota:
Overperformed against PSU.  

Illinois:
Underperformed against MSU.  

Indiana:
Underperformed against MSU and NU.  

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 12:44:20 PM
Many of my Hawkeye buddies really don't like the huskers but....

They were rooting for the big red last Saturday 
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 30, 2024, 01:59:50 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 12:44:20 PM
Many of my Hawkeye buddies really don't like the huskers but....

They were rooting for the big red last Saturday
Why?  Only asking because it is not obvious to me why Iowa would root for Nebraska over Ohio St.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 02:12:36 PM
The Hawkeyes record vs the buckeyes 
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 30, 2024, 03:12:56 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 02:12:36 PM
The Hawkeyes record vs the buckeyes
Ok,  got it.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: SFBadger96 on October 30, 2024, 03:41:43 PM
The funny thing about this is that I think of Wisconsin overperforming against Ohio State and underperfoming against Michigan, but that's driven by the upsets that were a bigger deal against OSU, and the losses to Michigan teams that frankly weren't that good. Good to see evidence that actually we've done alright against the Wolverines. And it's been a long time since the Badgers have had a really good win against either.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 30, 2024, 04:04:39 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 02:12:36 PM
The Hawkeyes record vs the buckeyes
A couple things on this:

First, Ohio State's overperformance against Iowa pretty much compensates for the underperformance against Purdue.  Look down the column:
(https://i.imgur.com/heDr6rk.png)
If you simply swapped the % against Iowa with the % against Purdue, the column would be roughly what one would expect.  

Second, the Ohio State / Iowa thing is probably partially because they are each other's least frequent opponent.  In the 30 seasons from 1993-2022 they only played 15 times so every other year on average.  Iowa played their next least frequent (M) 19 times.  Ohio State played their next least frequent (NU and MN) 18 times each.  

Looking at the games:
Individual Game Results of Ohio State (vs Iowa), 1993-2022

Date Opponent (record)ResultScoreSite
10/22/2022vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2022) (8-5)W5410
11/4/2017@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2017) (8-5)L2455
10/19/2013vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2013) (8-5)W3424
11/20/2010@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2010) (8-5)W2017
11/14/2009vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2009) (11-2)W2724
9/30/2006@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2006) (6-7)W3817
9/24/2005vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2005) (7-5)W316
10/16/2004@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2004) (10-2)L733
10/18/2003vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2003) (10-3)W1910
10/21/2000@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#2000) (3-9)W3810
10/30/1999vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#1999) (1-10)W4111
11/14/1998@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#1998) (3-8)W4514
10/4/1997vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#1997) (7-5)W237
10/26/1996@*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#1996) (9-3)W3826
10/28/1995vs.*Iowa (http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Iowa.htm#1995) (8-4)W5635

It is funny, the two times that Iowa DID win, they blew Ohio State out.  Ohio State has some blowouts among their 13 wins but they also won in OT once and have an additional one-score win.  If Iowa had split the two one-score games they'd be 3-12 or .200 instead of .133.  

Missed years:

I bolded seasons in which the Hawkeyes did better or nearly as good as the Buckeyes.  It is fairly unlikely that Iowa's 4-8 team from 2012 would have stopped Ohio State's 12-0 season but seven of these are seasons in which Iowa was just about as good as Ohio State.  
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 30, 2024, 04:44:43 PM
I always thought it was weird that OSU went to the Big Ten CCG 5 times and Iowa went 3 times but the 2 teams have never played each other in the CCG.  Then throw in the fact that the 2020 OSU-Iowa game was cancelled,  I guess it means  the universe just does not want those 2 teams to play each other.

Another weird thing is that since Iowa and OSU only played once from 2014-2021, and Iowa won that one game in 2017.  So Iowa went 8 straight years total without losing to OSU.

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 30, 2024, 05:04:04 PM
Quote from: LittlePig on October 30, 2024, 04:44:43 PM
Another weird thing is that since Iowa and OSU only played once from 2014-2021, and Iowa won that one game in 2017.  So Iowa went 8 straight years total without losing to OSU.
This is doubly amazing when looking at the 30 years as a whole.

Iowa went only 2-13 against Ohio State from 1993-2022 and yet went eight years without losing!

Of course they went 1-13 in the other 22 years.

In addition to the 2002 non-game, Iowa and Ohio State missed two important games in the early 1980's when the other eight teams each played a full round-robin:

In 1981 all league teams except Ohio State and Iowa played a full round robin. Iowa and Ohio State tied for the league title at 6-2. They both lost to Minnesota but the Gophers otherwise sucked and ended up 4-5. Ohio State also lost a close one at Wisconsin while Iowa lost 24-7 at Illinois. The Illini and Badgers both finished 6-3.

Iowa went to the Rose Bowl based on the longest loser rule.

In 1982 the Buckeyes (Wisconsin) and Wolverines (Ohio State) each lost one game and the Buckeyes won the H2H but Michigan won the title and went to the RoseBowl (which they lost of course) because they played a full round-robin and finished 8-1 while Ohio State missed Iowa and finished 7-1. Iowa was next in the standings at 6-2 with losses to Michigan and Purdue.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 31, 2024, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on October 30, 2024, 05:04:04 PM
In 1981 all league teams except Ohio State and Iowa played a full round robin. Iowa and Ohio State tied for the league title at 6-2. They both lost to Minnesota but the Gophers otherwise sucked and ended up 4-5. Ohio State also lost a close one at Wisconsin while Iowa lost 24-7 at Illinois. The Illini and Badgers both finished 6-3.

Iowa went to the Rose Bowl based on the longest loser rule.
This season is also interesting because it broke the tOSU/M strangle-hold on the Rose Bowl.  Some history:

The BigTen agreement with the Rose Bowl went into effect for the 1946 season/1947 Rose Bowl.  In the first 22 years of that agreement (1946-1967 seasons, 1947-1968 Rose Bowls) every team in the league went to the Rose Bowl and all but Wisconsin and Indiana won Rose Bowls.  Further, no team really dominated:


In year 23 of the Rose Bowl deal, Ohio State went and won a #1 v #2 game for the NC (1968 season, 1969 Rose Bowl).  That was the first of 13 straight Rose Bowl appearances by the Buckeyes and Wolverines (1968-1980 seasons, 1969-1981 Bowls) in which Ohio State and Michigan compiled a dismal 3-10 record (2-5 tOSU, 1-5M).  

Then the 1981 season happened.  Ohio State tied Iowa for the league title but the two didn't play and the tiebreaker was what I call the "longest loser rule" which stipulated that the team that hadn't been in the longest went.  At the time Ohio State's last prior RB was the 1980 game while Iowa's was the 1959 game.  The next year (1982 season) Michigan won the league with Ohio State 1/2 game back in second (see above) but the year after that the Illini won the league outright.  The 1983 season is interesting for two reasons:

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: LittlePig on October 31, 2024, 12:44:39 PM
I wonder how much the 1946-1967 numbers would be different if the Big Ten did not have the no repeat rule.
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2024, 01:26:58 PM
Updated SOR/SP+ CFP bracket


Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2024, 01:37:48 PM
Quote from: LittlePig on October 31, 2024, 12:44:39 PM
I wonder how much the 1946-1967 numbers would be different if the Big Ten did not have the no repeat rule.
PCC ended it in 1959, Big Ten in 1972

Changes...
1949 - #1 Michigan would have played, instead of #7 Northwestern, who beat #5 California
1955 - #2 UCLA would have played, instead of #17 USC, who lost to #1 Ohio State
1956 - #5 Ohio State would have played, instead of #2 Michigan State; who beat #4 UCLA
1958 - Oregon State would have played, instead of #17 Oregon, who lost to #2 Ohio State
1966 - #2 Michigan State would have played, instead of #7 Purdue, who beat unranked USC

Also in 1961 the OSU BOT voted against going to the Rose Bowl, even though they won the Big Ten outright, and would NOT violate the no repeat rule, because they were worried OSU's academic reputation was being harmed by being a "football school", which I did not know, and is the most hilarious thing ever
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2024, 01:50:49 PM
Last week in parentheses...

Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2024, 01:57:51 PM
Massey Composite Computer Rankings - 84 rankings (last week in parentheses)





Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on October 31, 2024, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: ELA on October 31, 2024, 01:37:48 PM
Also in 1961 the OSU BOT voted against going to the Rose Bowl, even though they won the Big Ten outright, and would NOT violate the no repeat rule, because they were worried OSU's academic reputation was being harmed by being a "football school", which I did not know, and is the most hilarious thing ever
I referenced this above.  Interestingly, Minnesota who went in tOSU's stead WAS a repeat.  They lost after the 1960 season and won after the 1961 season.  

More on this:
The only reason it came down to a vote was that the BigTen's contract with the Rose Bowl had lapsed.  I don't know the details of exactly why but in any case, the Rose Bowl simply invited the team that would have gone under the contract, Ohio State.  Ordinarily, Ohio State would have been contractually obligated but because the contract had lapsed they were merely an invitee which made it optional and, as you stated, the BoT turned down the invitation.  Unsurprisingly, Woody was BEYOND furious.  

There were also protests on campus.  My dad was born in 1940 and after HS Graduation in 1958 he served three years in the USMC (1958-1961).  He got out in the spring of 1961 and started Summer School at OhioU (Athens).  That fall he was at OhioU but he had always been a fan of tOSU and he had friends at Ohio State so he told stories of being there for the protests.  

The Gophers won the NC in 1960 although they lost the Rose Bowl but back then the final poll was BEFORE the bowls.  

In 1961 the Buckeyes and Gophers didn't play.  They both started the year with an OOC blemish.  Minnesota lost at home to a Mizzou team that was really good that year.  Mizzou finished unranked but first among "ORV" and this was at a time when the poll was only 10 teams so Mizzou was effectively #11.  Ohio State's blemish was a tie at home with a TCU squad that finished 3-5-2.  Ie, that was a HORRIBLE performance.  After that tie, however, the Buckeyes went on a tear.  They won eight straight to finish 8-0-1.  Minnesota won seven straight then lost at home to a Wisconsin team that tOSU had beaten in Madison.  

Interestingly, Minnesota lost the 1961 Rose Bowl as #1 to #6 Washington but they won the 1962 Rose Bowl as #6 over UCLA which was unranked but sixth among ORV so quasi-16th.  
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2024, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: LittlePig on October 30, 2024, 04:44:43 PM
I always thought it was weird that OSU went to the Big Ten CCG 5 times and Iowa went 3 times but the 2 teams have never played each other in the CCG.  Then throw in the fact that the 2020 OSU-Iowa game was cancelled,  I guess it means  the universe just does not want those 2 teams to play each other.

Another weird thing is that since Iowa and OSU only played once from 2014-2021, and Iowa won that one game in 2017.  So Iowa went 8 straight years total without losing to OSU.
They were Big Ten Co-Champs in 2002 and didn't play H2H
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2024, 04:00:05 PM
Quote from: FearlessF on October 30, 2024, 12:44:20 PM
Many of my Hawkeye buddies really don't like the huskers but....

They were rooting for the big red last Saturday
Ya well the Badgers lost
Title: Re: Big Ten Power Rankings After Week 9
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2024, 04:04:11 PM
I still think the best illustration of bowl games simply being an exhibition reward, and not part of the season, is that we could have had #1 OSU vs. #2 UCLA, and instead #17 USC went.

Which is why it was fine that the SEC and SWC essentially hosted bowl games forever, until the late 90s, when we decided to make them some sort of referendum on conference strength