CFB51 College Football Fan Community

The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Gigem on July 01, 2024, 01:22:56 PM

Title: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Gigem on July 01, 2024, 01:22:56 PM
What say ye?  My own opinion is that he will step aside, which is why they had the debate so early.  Either that, or there will not be another debate.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2024, 01:32:09 PM
There is more than one option I want to check. ( the Trump sucks one, plus another) 😂🤮
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 01, 2024, 01:37:57 PM
I responded "No."  I do not believe he has the mental capacity to be president of the US.

I also believe Trump sucks and that Biden belongs in a nursing home.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Gigem on July 01, 2024, 01:49:08 PM
I responded "No."  I do not believe he has the mental capacity to be president of the US.

I also believe Trump sucks and that Biden belongs in a nursing home.
Same, but I didn't want to muddy the waters.  I just wanted to see if anybody really thinks he can do the job.  I really only put those options out there for S&G.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2024, 01:51:01 PM
Nursing home.

Had a conversation with my Liberal brother last night. He voted Biden in 2020 and has buyer's remorse. He doesn't make a lot of money but doesn't qualify for handouts. 

I asked him if he thinks he's better off than he was 3.5 years ago and got a quick "no" out of him. And then the standard "yeah, but Trump" started to peek out.

He says he's not voting this time around. He lives in Illinois so he thinks it wouldn't matter either way.

I advised him to vote anyway. It matters.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 01, 2024, 02:16:29 PM
It still boggles my mind that we saw what a disaster Trump was, and Biden can't put two sentences together, and these are our options. Or RFK if you like worm brained conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 01, 2024, 03:14:53 PM
It still boggles my mind that we saw what a disaster Trump was, and Biden can't put two sentences together, and these are our options. Or RFK if you like worm brained conspiracy theories.
After the debate I was like 🤮

mostly lies from both.  One is a bombastic ego maniac with diarrhea of the mouth, the other an old man with Dimentia.   🤮
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 03:26:21 PM
I was like that long before the debate

Trump has been a bombastic ego maniac with diarrhea of the mouth

Biden has for a couple years been an old man with Dimentia.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2024, 03:36:19 PM
I was like that long before the debate

Trump has been a bombastic ego maniac with diarrhea of the mouth

Biden has for a couple years been an old man with Dimentia and diarrhea of the mouth.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 03:37:16 PM
well, they're both liars

they are politicians
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2024, 03:43:19 PM
Yep.

I will vote with my wallet and on immigration.

I have a solution to the latter which I shared with my two Senators and my local US Rep. We received by the Rep. Have not heard from the other two.

I shared some of it on this board, yesterday.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 01, 2024, 04:29:54 PM
Most Rs have gone from voting with their Bible to voting with their wallets.  It's interesting.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 01, 2024, 04:31:33 PM
Most Rs have gone from voting with their Bible to voting with their wallets.  It's interesting.
It's always been a mix of both. 

For shorthand: as it relates to their wallets, Rs vote based on how much $$ government is going to take out of them, while Ds vote based on how much $$ government is going to put into them. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2024, 04:50:13 PM
Both parties have factions that have not always been associated with that party.  The religious types used to vote Democratic, at least in the South, Reagan basically switched that.  Using broad strokes, those folks vote on social issues.  Republicans also include business types who want less regulation of stuff, and higher income earners who like lower taxes (who doesn't?), and elderly folks who tend to be more conservative, liking how things were, not how they may seem to be on the news.

Democrats also have factions of course.  

I also wonder if Trump has the mental capacity to be President, really, I do, and frankly I don't think he does, nor is he, in my view, able to "work in DC".  He really didn't get much done in his first term, I don't expect much in his second.  If we can avoid major military conflict, I am more or less "OK".

As for Joe, I didn't think he was very smart 30 years ago.  He thinks he is, which makes it doubly bad, though today I think he's a prop.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 01, 2024, 04:55:56 PM
I'm registered as an independent. 

Sorry to disappoint ya, 'Fro.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2024, 04:58:31 PM
I never registered as an anything, to the best of my knowledge, in GA or NC or OH or back in GA.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2024, 05:04:40 PM
I'd say Brandon has been a monkey in a mango tree for quite some time. But since he can't climb steps w/o someone there to catch or direct him I'd down grade him to a foaming ebola chimp
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 01, 2024, 05:08:26 PM
Video: New poll shows impact of Biden’s debate performance | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/30/politics/video/biden-cnn-debate-post-poll-enten-nr-digvid)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MarqHusker on July 01, 2024, 05:49:55 PM
Love the faux shock of the media.

No, we all knew this,  you knowingly pretended and attacked anyone that questioned Bidens fitness. 

sychophants and enablers.

nYT did a 180 inside of three days on the subject. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2024, 07:18:25 PM
He says he's not voting this time around. He lives in Illinois so he thinks it wouldn't matter either way.

I advised him to vote anyway. It matters.
I originally was registered in Michigan, now Pennsylvania.  Always as an independent.  I can't handle another call or text based on that.  I wish I was a registered something in a solid blue/red state.

I'm inclined to tell both committees I'm voting for whoever bugs me the least between now and November
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: GopherRock on July 01, 2024, 07:28:10 PM
In Minnesota, you don't register with a party when you register to vote. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: ELA on July 01, 2024, 07:47:35 PM
In Minnesota, you don't register with a party when you register to vote.
Pennsylvania has a closed primary.  Michigan doesn't.  Both have their issues.  A closed primary means only the extremes are picking the candidates.  An open means the other side can try to sabotage it.  There is no correct answer
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 01, 2024, 08:33:28 PM
Not that I'm the dean of board management, but wouldn't a sort of direct political discussion about candidates be best located on the appropriate sub board?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 01, 2024, 08:44:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LOrAA7K.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 01, 2024, 09:51:06 PM
Not that I'm the dean of board management, but wouldn't a sort of direct political discussion about candidates be best located on the appropriate sub board?
the dean could and probably should lock this board
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Gigem on July 01, 2024, 11:29:10 PM
We derail and side track threads. It’s what we do. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2024, 04:05:13 AM
I'm registered as an independent.

Sorry to disappoint ya, 'Fro.
Why lie to yourself?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2024, 04:06:02 AM
I originally was registered in Michigan, now Pennsylvania.  Always as an independent.  I can't handle another call or text based on that.  I wish I was a registered something in a solid blue/red state.

I'm inclined to tell both committees I'm voting for whoever bugs me the least between now and November
Landslide winner, tbh
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 02, 2024, 06:20:21 AM
A lot of sweeping generalizations in here.  

The one nobody is talking about are the large swath of non- bible thumpers who can’t stand either candidate, but will vote based on there desire to stop what they perceive as the progressive 
“Agenda”.  

-defund the police
-soft on crime- they see it every day on their tv
- no bail
-open border with no vetting
-forcing EVs too quickly
- parents not having a voice in school curriculum 
-pushing DEI past its useful intent and killing meritocracy,
- using courts to pursue the political opposition ( lawfare)

The list is super long.  The point is- there seems to be people in this bucket all over the place.  They are not religious at all.  They just want the pendulum to swing back the other way. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 02, 2024, 06:25:35 AM

- parents not having a voice in school curriculum

This is simply not true.  When a school district is choosing a new curriculum series to purchase, it's required to put the prospective options on display for anyone to come investigate, vet, or just peruse.  It's required.  It's during the decision-making process, which is some number of weeks, like 6-10, somewhere in there.

No one checks it out.  No one cares.  They just bitch and moan after the fact.  REacting instead of PROactively contributing their opinion at the appropriate time. 

It's as if the school district sets up a virtual microphone for parents' voices to be heard, but no one steps up to it.  What happens is a bunch of complaining after the fact.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 02, 2024, 06:29:16 AM
This is simply not true.  When a school district is choosing a new curriculum series to purchase, it's required to put the prospective options on display for anyone to come investigate, vet, or just peruse.  It's required.  It's during the decision-making process, which is some number of weeks, like 6-10, somewhere in there.

No one checks it out.  No one cares.  They just bitch and moan after the fact.  REacting instead of PROactively contributing their opinion at the appropriate time. 

It's as if the school district sets up a virtual microphone for parents' voices to be heard, but no one steps up to it.  What happens is a bunch of complaining after the fact.
I give you that.  That is your world and you know it far better than me. 

I just cringe when I see parents put on the domestic terrorist list when they do complain, or publicly chastised by the school board. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2024, 07:33:17 AM
Each school system of course operates differently, within state guidelines, which also differ.

And of course "we" elect the school board.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2024, 08:22:23 AM
We derail and side track threads. It’s what we do.
Sigh. I suppose these days politics are treated like sports entertainment, and everyone wants to discuss politics like they’re hot take/embrace debate sports (but much more bitter and acrimonious)

I guess I am in the minority in finding a lack of that refreshing.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2024, 08:30:58 AM
Sen. Tillis: ‘For the sake of the country, Biden should step aside’ | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/opinions/biden-debate-performance-step-aside-tillis/index.html)

Republican Senator.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 02, 2024, 08:46:17 AM
Sigh. I suppose these days politics are treated like sports entertainment, and everyone wants to discuss politics like they’re hot take/embrace debate sports (but much more bitter and acrimonious)

I guess I am in the minority in finding a lack of that refreshing.
I'd rather it be kept in one thread, and not dominate every day, but it's offseason everything.

In 59 days, this board goes more normal (until November 5, of course).

We need more members.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 02, 2024, 08:47:18 AM
A lot of sweeping generalizations in here. 

The one nobody is talking about are the large swath of non- bible thumpers who can’t stand either candidate but will vote based on their desire to stop what they perceive as the progressive “Agenda”. 
Exactly.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 02, 2024, 08:48:13 AM
the dean could and probably should lock this board
That would likely kill it for good. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 02, 2024, 08:59:30 AM
If Joe Biden is too mentally incompetent to stand trial, per Special Counsel Hur, he's too mentally incompetent to serve as president.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 02, 2024, 09:41:22 AM
A lot of sweeping generalizations in here. 

The one nobody is talking about are the large swath of non- bible thumpers who can’t stand either candidate, but will vote based on there desire to stop what they perceive as the progressive
“Agenda”. 

-defund the police
-soft on crime- they see it every day on their tv
- no bail
-open border with no vetting
-forcing EVs too quickly
- parents not having a voice in school curriculum
-pushing DEI past its useful intent and killing meritocracy,
- using courts to pursue the political opposition ( lawfare)

The list is super long.  The point is- there seems to be people in this bucket all over the place.  They are not religious at all.  They just want the pendulum to swing back the other way.
I think this kinda cuts to a sort of interesting central point.

I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to create a sort of scary sounding list of many things that at various points have all been partial or total Republican aims. And then one could say that’s why a bunch of people vote blue. And maybe that says something about where we are. We’re mostly focused on trying to bulwark against the grotesqueries of the other side.

(I find the bail thing fascinating, purely from a policy/rights perspective, but maybe we can chat that out elsewhere)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2024, 09:54:41 AM
If Joe Biden is too mentally incompetent to stand trial, per Special Counsel Hur, he's too mentally incompetent to serve as president.
Oh jeez I'm agreeing with Michigan Fans
https://youtu.be/8OyBtMPqpNY
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 10:34:33 AM
Sigh. I suppose these days politics are treated like sports entertainment, and everyone wants to discuss politics like they’re hot take/embrace debate sports (but much more bitter and acrimonious)

I guess I am in the minority in finding a lack of that refreshing.
I'm in the minority
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 10:35:36 AM
Sen. Tillis: ‘For the sake of the country, Biden should step aside’ | CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/01/opinions/biden-debate-performance-step-aside-tillis/index.html)

Republican Senator. 
I would expect this from EVERY Republican senator
it's news if/when it comes from Dem senators
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 02, 2024, 10:56:40 AM
I'm in the minority
Yes Runza munching and Saki Beer would certainly land you there
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2024, 10:59:13 AM
The story line seems to be "OK, he had a bad start, but he got stronger, quit panicking, he's fine.  And we really have no options."

I think the only way to combat the prevailing opinion is to have Joe do sit down interviews now, and shine, not just do OK, but appear compos mentis and on his game.  Maybe they script the questions, maybe not.

There is a problem of course with this tactic.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 11:11:45 AM
script the questions and many many edits

nothing "live"
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 11:12:53 AM
Yes Runza munching and Saki Beer would certainly land you there
Bud heavy with runza

but, when at the sushi place, Saki is gooood!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2024, 11:45:08 AM
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4751653-carl-bernstein-biden-trump-debate-anderson-cooper-cnn/
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 02, 2024, 01:22:27 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/house-democrat-call-biden-withdraw/index.html
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 02, 2024, 03:02:02 PM
I would expect this from EVERY Republican senator
it's news if/when it comes from Dem senators
Same here.


After the debate I went looking for Democratic takes because I figured the Republican takes could be assumed. Cenk on TYT was interesting. 

His take as a Democrat was that keeping Biden on the ballot was tantamount to supporting Trump and also that it was elder abuse.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 02, 2024, 05:47:54 PM
I think this kinda cuts to a sort of interesting central point.

I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to create a sort of scary sounding list of many things that at various points have all been partial or total Republican aims. And then one could say that’s why a bunch of people vote blue. And maybe that says something about where we are. We’re mostly focused on trying to bulwark against the grotesqueries of the other side.

(I find the bail thing fascinating, purely from a policy/rights perspective, but maybe we can chat that out elsewhere)
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/migrant-accused-raping-teen-released-500-bail-despite-ice-calls

Fair or unfair, true or false- I was simply trying to point out that this is the kind of stuff that we see every day that bothers a lot of people, and it has nothing to do with them being Bible thumpers. They see it as a continuation of the direction of the current administrations progressive agenda. It makes them very uncomfortable.  

I’m not agreeing or disagree but just saying it is a incorrect and sweeping generalization to call those who are going to vote for Trump “Bible thumper”
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 02, 2024, 08:06:42 PM
I agree that illegal migrants accused of raping teens is terrible and one reason the border should be secured as much as possible
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 07:45:05 AM
What the polls say after the first presidential debate - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/538/polls-after-presidential-debate/story?id=111610497)

Nonetheless, some post-debate surveys offered other negative data points for Biden's standing with voters after the debate — including those in his own party. In [color=var(--hyperlink-resting-color)]the 538/Ipsos post-debate survey[/color] (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/), conducted using Ipsos's [color=var(--hyperlink-resting-color)]KnowledgePanel[/color] (https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/solutions/public-affairs/knowledgepanel)[color=var(--hyperlink-resting-color)]just 20 percent[/color] (https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/538-ipsos-june-2024-presidential-debate-poll) of likely voters, down from 27 percent before the debate, rated Biden's mental fitness to be president as excellent or good — that includes a drop from 56 percent to 42 percent specifically among Democrats. And just 15 percent of voters after the debate said his physical fitness to be president was excellent or good, down from 21 percent before the event. Similarly, [color=var(--hyperlink-resting-color)]a YouGov/CBS News post-debate poll[/color] (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/) found that only 27 percent of registered voters thought Biden had the mental and cognitive health to serve as president, compared with 50 percent overall who felt Trump did. Among Democrats, only about three-fifths thought Biden had the mental wherewithal to do the job.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 07:51:35 AM
I view this something like taking a poll of OSU and UM fans after a game.  The losing side may dislike their coach more, or the QB, whatever, but they will still say their team is their favorite, almost no one will switch sides.  

Similarly, I think about 40% of the electorate will ALWAYS vote D or R (at times they may not show up in numbers), and only ~20% is open to switching sides.

This is why a President's approval ratings will rarely drop much below about 40.  That's the core, the convinced, the fan base, the partisans (which has a different meaning in another context).

So, turn out can be key, voters may be disaffected with their coach, and then the middle 20, who may not like either "team" very much, but will hold their noses at times and vote for one or the other.

The interesting thing, to me, is Trump clearly has about 30% locked up (he could shoot someone in NYC etc.).  If he could appear to "moderate his tone" (stop laughing), he'd likely sway some of the 20, suburban housewives etc., and waltzing to a W.  You don't need to be crazy any more.

I'm about 50-50 on whether Biden stays in the race.  There is a lot of pressure obviously outside the inner circle, Joe may not feel any of it.  And the recent polls show only a modest shift, so "they" may think they can wait this out.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 08:03:58 AM
every time Joe speaks live on TV or in public from now on, he will be under the microscope.

no way he survives that

even with teleprompters, scripted questions and answers, simple speeches
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 08:06:01 AM
Among Democrats, only about three-fifths thought Biden had the mental wherewithal to do the job.
3 out of 5 think he's fine?

They walk among us. Holy shit.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 08:11:13 AM
hey, 4 out of 20 on this board voted yes
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 08:43:23 AM
It's their "team", as I keep saying.  You don't bail on "your team" no matter what.  You believe whatever "they" are telling you and make excuses.

I see posts by folks on "that team" on FB routinely, it's rather amazing, and these appear to be reasonably intelligent people.

The "other team" asks me for examples of where Trump lied, and then claim those aren't lies.  OK then.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 08:46:08 AM
Then of course you have some folks who may be a bit confused about which team they are on. Reminds me of a scene in Full Metal Jacket.


(https://i.imgur.com/dLkwDrV.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 08:47:14 AM
Full Metal Jacket Born to Kill/Peace Button Duality of Man (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMEViYvojtY)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 08:47:19 AM
but, the question was not, "who will you vote for?

We did get 4 voting for Trump Sucks.

the question was regarding mental capacity

zero votes for maybe???
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 08:50:56 AM
Their team leader is mentally as sharp as a tack, they will assert, no matter what.

Weekend at Biden's.

No matter what.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 08:56:14 AM
I assume they think the President of the United States doesn't require much mental capacity a tall

not even enuff to hold a press conference
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 09:02:03 AM
A lot of folks "believe" whatever they are told over "their lyin' eyes".  And many may not pay attention, or have viewed any part of the debate.  They may not be entirely air heads, they just "don't like politics" and don't pay attention.  Many probably cannot name the VP or Speaker of the House.

I had neighbors like this.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 09:13:43 AM
From the NYT:



Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 09:16:41 AM
the VP hasn't been very visible for a while

perhaps there is a reason for that?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 09:23:19 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Ptrf2Dk.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 09:30:13 AM
Joe Biden's team is at odds with Democratic donors and voters (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-age-debate-2024-election-rcna159918)

I haven't found a media outlet that is supportive of Biden's staying in the race, yet.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 09:47:14 AM
It's hard to come up with words to discuss this.


“I didn’t have my best night, but the fact is that you know, I wasn’t very smart," Biden said, speaking at the campaign fundraiser without the aid of a teleprompter. "I decided to travel around the world a couple times, going through around 100 time zones ... before ... the debate.

"Didn’t listen to my staff and came back and nearly fell asleep on stage," he said. "That's no excuse but it is an explanation.”

Biden traveled to France and Italy during two separate trips in the space of two weeks last month, flying overnight from the Group of Seven summit in Bari, Italy, to appear at a fundraiser with former President Barack Obama in Los Angeles on June 15 before returning to Washington the following day.

He then spent six days at Camp David preparing for the June 27 debate.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: jgvol on July 03, 2024, 09:57:34 AM
It's hard to come up with words to discuss this.


“I didn’t have my best night, but the fact is that you know, I wasn’t very smart," Biden said, speaking at the campaign fundraiser without the aid of a teleprompter. "I decided to travel around the world a couple times, going through around 100 time zones ... before ... the debate.

"Didn’t listen to my staff and came back and nearly fell asleep on stage," he said. "That's no excuse but it is an explanation.”

Biden traveled to France and Italy during two separate trips in the space of two weeks last month, flying overnight from the Group of Seven summit in Bari, Italy, to appear at a fundraiser with former President Barack Obama in Los Angeles on June 15 before returning to Washington the following day.

He then spent six days at Camp David preparing for the June 27 debate.




I can think of 5.

Excuse making POS.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 09:59:48 AM
I'm not nearly as old as Joe but,..........

I could get rested and ready for about anything with six days at Camp David
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 03, 2024, 10:00:48 AM
but the fact is that you know, I wasn’t very smart," Biden said

no lie
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 11:48:29 AM
That kind of travel sounds like a pretty typical level of demand on a president of the USA.  If he can't handle it, then he's not appropriate for office.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 11:52:27 AM
That kind of travel sounds like a pretty typical level of demand on a president of the USA.  If he can't handle it, then he's not appropriate for office.

Jet lag 12 days later. C'mon man! Get with it, Jack!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 11:54:01 AM
I mean, he's got a pretty decked-out ride, right?  It's not like he's flying coach on Spirit airlines...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 11:54:17 AM
The original post was taken down, but the internet is forever.

(https://i.imgur.com/NwVom1Q.png)

Most likely posted by an intern, who has since been fired.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 11:55:02 AM
I mean, he's got a pretty decked-out ride, right?  It's not like he's flying coach on Spirit airlines...
Right. He could have slept all the way home, in luxury.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 12:05:35 PM
The excuses are getting epic.  I think he's done, he might even resign before the inauguration.

White House refutes report Biden told ally he's weighing whether to stay in the race (thehill.com)
White House refutes report Biden told ally he's weighing whether to stay in the race (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4753659-white-house-biden-dropping-out/)

In it’s report, The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/biden-election-debate.html) cited a key Biden ally who told the publication the president “knows he may not be able to salvage his candidacy if he cannot convince the public in the coming days that he is up for the job.” The report stated the president understands that his next few appearances, which involve an interview with ABC News and campaign stops in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, are essential to convincing the public he can stay in the race.
Biden’s campaign, meanwhile called the report “false.”
Deputy principal campaign manager Quentin Fulks told CNN: “The president is in this race to win it. He is the Democratic nominee.”
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 12:07:24 PM
Heck, if the Dems got the right candidate, they might even get MY vote.  But there's no way Biden's gonna get it.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 12:10:15 PM
There is no Dem on their list I would vote for myself.  I MIGHT listen to Newsom, a bit, but 99% no on him.  Cackles is a hard no.  Gretchen I don't know much about, would listen to her.  Biden is a hard hard no for me.  So is Trump.

RFKJr is a no.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:17:51 PM
It still boggles my mind that we saw what a disaster Trump was, and Biden can't put two sentences together, and these are our options. Or RFK if you like worm brained conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy theory is a term invented by the CIA. One that only stupid people use imo.

RFK is dead on about a lot of things. However I find his full-stop support of Israel and the genocide it's committing to be a deal breaker however.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:19:11 PM
After the debate I was like 🤮

mostly lies from both.  One is a bombastic ego maniac with diarrhea of the mouth, the other an old man with Dimentia.  🤮
That debate format where they could cut the mics actually helped Trump by curbing his worst impulses. Last go round he really hurt himself in the debates with Biden by just not keeping his god damn mouth shut. That debate format helped Trump more than anything- just by keeping his mouth shut and letting Biden open his demented mouth and hang himself. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:20:36 PM
well, they're both liars

they are politicians
this. astonishes me that people always jump on Trump about being a liar. do they not know who Joe Biden is? they are both massive liars. you can't be a successful politician in this country without being one. truth tellers don't win elections in the United States. conformists and propagandists do. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:21:17 PM
Most Rs have gone from voting with their Bible to voting with their wallets.  It's interesting.
it's not just R's buddy. It's how PEOPLE in general vote. They'll vote for whomever they believe raises their standard of living. Am I better off financially with this guy or that. Bush I lost his re-election because: he raised taxes, savings & loan crisis hit hard & economy was in recession. 

"It's the economy, stupid." 
- James Carville 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 12:22:47 PM
Conspiracy theory is a term invented by the CIA. One that only stupid people use imo.

RFK is dead on about a lot of things. However I find his full-stop support of Israel and the genocide it's committing to be a deal breaker however. 
What are things he's dead on about?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 03, 2024, 12:23:01 PM
hey, 4 out of 20 on this board voted yes
I'll go public and say I was one of those four. I probably should have gone with "maybe", but I voted yes. 

The reason for that is that I think the biggest problem with Biden is not that he's no longer "there", but that he's a doddering old man who simply isn't quick enough any more to do something like a debate. 

But the presidency isn't a debate. The President isn't a quarterback who has to make lightning-fast decisions while the blitz is coming. The President has an army of advisers, can have people collating all the necessary information to make decisions and do his job, and can take the time to think about things. When his job is making decisions with the immediacy most often measured in hours or days, not seconds or minute, I think he's still able to do the job. 

That said, I don't think he has the mental capacity to run for the job, which is a whole different set of skills. It requires public appearances like the debate where he certainly didn't show out as someone who trust to be the leader of the free world. You're not going to get elected looking like he looked last Thursday night. The debate was the chance to dispel all the "Sleepy Joe" criticism, and instead he validated it. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:24:49 PM
to answer the OPs question....it's been obvious as day that Biden was mentally unfit to be President back in 2020 when he won. Which is likely why this country has gone to shit- because we have a literal corpse whose brain has melted into the soft serve ice cream he loves as leader of the free world. 

They've done a great job keeping him tucked away and hiding it and pushing their propaganda in the corporate media about how he's "the best version of Joe Biden ever" - but they no longer can spin it. 

Biden will be replaced with Gavin Newsome imo. Slimy scumbaggy lying slicked back haired, much younger, good looking dude that can verbally spar and think on his feet- he'd beat Trump imo and he'd also probably be an awful President and turn the United States into a giant Shit-Hole California. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 12:31:32 PM
If Joe Biden is too mentally incompetent to stand trial, per Special Counsel Hur, he's too mentally incompetent to serve as president.
winner winner chicken dinner. 

still ASTONISHES me that this did not get wall to wall coverage in the corporate media and wasn't a massive scandal/story. should've been the biggest story in years if not decades and the implications of it are that either Biden's DOJ is insanely corrupt or that the 25th amendment needed to be invoked immediately.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 12:32:16 PM
 Which is likely why this country has gone to shit- because we have a literal corpse whose brain has melted into the soft serve ice cream he loves as leader of the free world.
I'm always fascinated to see opinions claiming the US has "gone to S" under Biden.  That isn't my view, at all, though I don't credit Biden for anything much good.

I think the US is in pretty decent shape overall, with a few major issues, but a lot of metrics look good to me.  I personally am a LOT better off than four years ago, or three, or two.  I judge on how well the country is doing more than me personally.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: ELA on July 03, 2024, 01:05:42 PM
It's funny.  In most polls, if you ask people if they are better off than they were 1, 2, 5, 10 years ago, the overwhelming answer is yes.  As soon as you tie it to politics, the answers change.  The majority of Americans are better off now, than they were in 2020.  And the majority of us were better in 2020 than in 2016.  But when you tie it to Presidential election, and people pick up on context clues, the answers change.  "Four years ago" shifts the narrative.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 01:09:36 PM
Similarly, Democrats will claim the country is in great shape while Republican claim the reverse (when we have a Dem in the WH).

Neither are correct, in my view.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 01:18:18 PM
2024 U.S. President (realclearpolling.com) (https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president)

Betting odds ... Harris is at 17.5%, Joe is at ... 9.7%.    Trump at 55.8%.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 01:44:10 PM
Tides begin to turn on Joe Biden post-debate (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/newsletters/1230-report/4753835-1230-report-tides-begin-to-turn-on-biden-post-debate/)

I think he resigns before August.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 01:50:10 PM
Trump extends lead over Biden in New York Times/Siena College poll (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4754038-trump-biden-debate-lead-poll/)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 02:44:25 PM
Tides begin to turn on Joe Biden post-debate (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/newsletters/1230-report/4753835-1230-report-tides-begin-to-turn-on-biden-post-debate/)

I think he resigns before August.
Maybe he will give the country a birthday present tomorrow.

1. Wake up
2. Parden the Biden family
3. Resign
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 03, 2024, 02:54:32 PM
Tides begin to turn on Joe Biden post-debate (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/newsletters/1230-report/4753835-1230-report-tides-begin-to-turn-on-biden-post-debate/)

I think he resigns before August.
"reports" are that Biden's wife and son are telling Joe he's fine and continue on running.

this man is a know nothing do nothing 60 year career life-long politician. translation: he's a corrupt morally bankrupt ego-maniac psychopath who thinks he's the most awesome thing ever and was born to lead. god chose him to lead us sheeple for 60 years. people like him don't give up their power willingly. this guys entire adult life has literally been in politics and about trying to ascend to the presidency.

i don't think it is likely at all that he just resigns. i think it's likely they force him out somehow someway- 25th amendment perhaps- and replace him as the nominee at the Dem convention with Gavin Newsome.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 03, 2024, 03:29:21 PM
2024 U.S. President (realclearpolling.com) (https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president)

Betting odds ... Harris is at 17.5%, Joe is at ... 9.7%.    Trump at 55.8%.
The betting odds they list don't add up to 100%.  I assume this is because they aren't listing minor candidates.  

Per their list:
That adds up to 94.7% so I assume that the other 5.3% is spread among various potential candidates who each have less than 0.3%.  

Of those listed there are three R's (Trump, Haley, Ramaswamy) and among them, Trump is the runaway winner with 98.76%.  The other two are each at <1% of the probability among R's.  

What is interesting to me is that the D's are much more evenly split.  The percentages (of the total for the four) for the four listed D's:
On the specific question of whether or not Biden gets replaced on the ballot, I read this to mean the bettors are betting he only has a 1 in 4 chance of being the nominee.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 03, 2024, 03:34:48 PM
It's funny.  In most polls, if you ask people if they are better off than they were 1, 2, 5, 10 years ago, the overwhelming answer is yes.  As soon as you tie it to politics, the answers change.  The majority of Americans are better off now, than they were in 2020.  And the majority of us were better in 2020 than in 2016.  But when you tie it to Presidential election, and people pick up on context clues, the answers change.  "Four years ago" shifts the narrative.
Not sure I would be so confident about “ majority” being “ better off” now than 2020.  

and what does it even mean?   Making more? Having your money be worth more or less than 2020?   Safer?  Happier with the direction?

And how much of it is actually impacted by POTUS?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 03, 2024, 03:44:05 PM
Not sure I would be so confident about “ majority” being “ better off” now than 2020. 

and what does it even mean?  Making more? Having your money be worth more or less than 2020?  Safer?  Happier with the direction?

And how much of it is actually impacted by POTUS?
Which is why it's such a stupid question. And why voters en masse are equally stupid for basically acting on Carville's quote: "It's the economy, stupid."

POTUS can of course have an effect on the economy. But most of what happens in the economy is due to things far beyond their control or scope. 

But in the voting booth, voters often vote based on the economy either crediting the party in the White House or blaming the party in the White House. 

Even asking the question "are you better off than you were 4 years ago" as if it should be meaningful in a voting decision is providing a veneer of legitimacy to the stupidity.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 03:45:17 PM
Not sure I would be so confident about “ majority” being “ better off” now than 2020. 

and what does it even mean?  Making more? Having your money be worth more or less than 2020?  Safer?  Happier with the direction?

And how much of it is actually impacted by POTUS?


A) Not making more.

My wife is on fixed income (retired). Healthcare costs through her pension are 1/4 more than they were in 2020. I'm on fixed income (as are the other partners) so we can afford to give raises to our employees, who would leave for more money. They get approached all the time. Therefore, we make a lot less than we were in 2020, in terms of purchasing power.

B) Finally caught back up to where we were in 2020 a few months ago.

******************************

Of those who say they are better off than in 2020, I'll bet the vast majority work for a governmental agency - city, county, state or Federal.

******************************

We are safer because we moved to Florida.

Direction? Do we have any?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 03, 2024, 03:46:44 PM
Which is why it's such a stupid question. And why voters en masse are equally stupid for basically acting on Carville's quote: "It's the economy, stupid."

POTUS can of course have an effect on the economy. But most of what happens in the economy is due to things far beyond their control or scope.

But in the voting booth, voters often vote based on the economy either crediting the party in the White House or blaming the party in the White House.

Even asking the question "are you better off than you were 4 years ago" as if it should be meaningful in a voting decision is providing a veneer of legitimacy to the stupidity.
I'm trying to figure out what this post means.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: ELA on July 03, 2024, 03:52:58 PM
Not sure I would be so confident about “ majority” being “ better off” now than 2020. 

and what does it even mean?  Making more? Having your money be worth more or less than 2020?  Safer?  Happier with the direction?

And how much of it is actually impacted by POTUS?
Simply the polling question "are you better off".  When you remove the Presidential election from the time frame from the question, most people answer yes.  When you add the time frame, people answer based on their views of the president.  I'm an energy attorney.  Very tied to energy policy.  I'm better off now than I was in 2020.  Better in 2020 than in 2016.  Better in 2016 than in 2012.  The fact is we are mostly going in one direction.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 03, 2024, 03:56:07 PM
I'm trying to figure out what this post means.
Presidential elections are often a referendum on the state of the economy, despite the fact that the President in power is not really all that responsible for the state of the economy.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 03:58:43 PM
It's the Global Macroeconomy, Stupid!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 04:04:31 PM
It’s the Fed.   

Most of my income is invested and I’ve done very well.  I know many many have not. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 03, 2024, 04:10:37 PM
I'll go public and say I was one of those four. I probably should have gone with "maybe", but I voted yes.

The reason for that is that I think the biggest problem with Biden is not that he's no longer "there", but that he's a doddering old man who simply isn't quick enough any more to do something like a debate.

But the presidency isn't a debate. The President isn't a quarterback who has to make lightning-fast decisions while the blitz is coming. The President has an army of advisers, can have people collating all the necessary information to make decisions and do his job, and can take the time to think about things. When his job is making decisions with the immediacy most often measured in hours or days, not seconds or minute, I think he's still able to do the job.

That said, I don't think he has the mental capacity to run for the job, which is a whole different set of skills. It requires public appearances like the debate where he certainly didn't show out as someone who trust to be the leader of the free world. You're not going to get elected looking like he looked last Thursday night. The debate was the chance to dispel all the "Sleepy Joe" criticism, and instead he validated it.
Please appreciate that I'm trying to do this in as non-partisan a way as I can because my honest opinion is that I'd be against him regardless of his mental state.  That said, his obviously declining mental state troubles me because the staffers (on both sides) tend to be pretty radical.  Basically this is because neutrals simply don't get involved in politics.  The people who DO get involved are wing nuts (both sides).  I think Biden's administration has been a bit more radical than it would otherwise have been because of this.  He isn't "there" to reign them in. 

Moving on, I get what you are saying and I can agree in almost all circumstances but there are some circumstances where making quick decisions is necessary.  Realistically, his advisors would probably just act on his behalf and deal with the consequences later so it probably doesn't cause a major problem.  That said, it does mean that his unelected underlings who (see above) are generally more radical than him are making decisions that they aren't Constitutionally authorized to make.  Over the years there has been a lot of criticism (mostly from the left) of Haig's rather infamous "I'm in charge here" comment after the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan.  Are we now effectively in that territory all, most, or some of the time? 

My bigger issue from a nonpartisan perspective is that this isn't going to get better.  I mentioned in the other thread that I went looking for Democratic takes after that debate.  Cenk from TYT pointed out that this wasn't a 51 year old who had a bad day and will have better days later, this was an 81 year old.  He isn't going to get better.  I've compared to Fetterman but the situation there is very different because:

In this case I believe we are dealing with dementia.  Whether it is Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or just plain dementia is largely irrelevant. 

As many here know, I dealt with this within my family as I watched my father's decline.  I watched the guy who taught me how to ride a bike forget how to hang up his coat.  It is an incredibly painful thing to watch. 

I think that is what we are dealing with here because I recognized a few things.  I recognized the vacant stare.  When we got photos ready for my dad's funeral we saw that in nearly all of the recent photos. 

I've also seen the progression.  It starts as lapses.  Maybe four years ago when Trump was calling him "sleepy Joe" it was because of lapses but Joe was still mostly there.  I pointed out in the other thread that I thought Trump made a humongous strategic error last time around by making a big deal of it BEFORE the debate.  That lowered the bar and then Biden showed up for the 2016 debate and all he really had to do to clear the LOW bar was show up and . . . not look like he did last week. 

In my non-partisan view, there are two things that concern me:
First is that this disease doesn't get better, it gets worse.  I watched my dad's dementia progress from occasional lapses to being just plain "gone" over about 10 years.  It starts as occasional lapses and otherwise completely lucid then over time that flips until it gets to the point where they are usually "gone" and have occasional moments of clarity.  There isn't a cure.  The drugs they prescribe aren't even supposed to STOP it, they are only supposed to slow it down.  Even assuming that Biden's debate performance was a particularly bad lapse, the Presidential Term we will vote for in November runs from January 20, 2025 to January 20, 2029.  Ie, it ends four-and-a-half years from now.  I'm thinking back on my experience with my dad and if you add 4.5 years to when he first started looking like Biden did the other night, that ain't good.  And that assumes that performance on June 27 was the first rather than that his inner circle has simply hidden this from us until now. 

My second concern is that as my dad deteriorated, he had almost no idea how bad his condition was.  Even in his moments of lucidity he was only vaguely (at best) aware that he wasn't lucid most of the time.  I'll give you an example:

When we took my dad's driver's license away we blamed the Doctor (so that he wouldn't be mad at us).  Shortly after that I took my dad to an appointment with his cardiologist.  In the waiting room with people all around us, my dad was RANTING and RAVING about how stupid that Doctor was.  My dad who prior to his decline probably swore about once a year was swearing like a sailor in the waiting room with people all around us:  "That M-Fing Doctor", etc.  Anyway, while he was doing this he decided to take his coat off so he had his coat in one hand and a hanger in the other and he literally couldn't figure out how to get the coat onto the hanger.  At that point, he stopped ranting/raving/swearing in midsentence, handed me his coat and the hanger and said "here, you do this" then continued on ranting/raving/swearing.  I was dumbfounded.  I wanted to laugh and cry all at once.  I looked at him thinking "You cannot operate a coat-hanger and you want me to put you behind the wheel of a 9,000 lb truck that we plow snow with?" 

I did a presentation on dealing with Alzheimer's and in it I admitted that my family and I made a colossal mistake in not taking my dad's license away sooner.  We were incredibly lucky that he didn't hurt himself or kill someone. 

My parent's neighbor at the time was about 10 years old and named Milo.  Milo would ride his bike up and down the street wearing his spiky mohawk helmet.  What FINALLY motivated me to take my dad's license away was the realization that it wasn't about me nor even my dad.  It was about Milo.  I received permission from Milo's parents and in the presentation I do about dealing with Alzheimer's, when I come to this section I show Milo's picture (on his bike, with his helmet) and I implore people not to duplicate my mistake because they might not be so lucky.  I tell them that it isn't about them nor even their loved one, it is about a kid like Milo who is riding his or her bike around and has their whole life in front of them.  I tell them to take away their loved one's license because the Milos out there deserve to live that life, not get run over because they (like me) didn't want to deal with the fallout from taking Dad's (or mom's or whatever) license away. 

Ok, I'm back from my extended aside.  My point is that the last person in the world who is going to know about Joe Biden's decline is . . . Joe Biden. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 04:23:41 PM
It’s the Fed. 

Most of my income is invested and I’ve done very well.  I know many many have not.
Everything's way more expensive than it was four years ago and my pay increases have not kept up with it, thus my buying power is less than it was four years ago.

So if you're asking me, from an operational expenses financial view, am I better off than I was four years ago, I'd respond with a resounding "No."

And I don't know many who are.

I don't blame the president for that because I know the president has little to do with it.

My investment portfolio has done pretty well over that period.  I'm not going to credit the president for that, because I know that he has little to do with that, either.

Do I think the current president has done anything to make my life noticeably better over the past 4 years?  Nope.

Has he done anything to make it noticeably worse?  Also, nope.


The End.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 03, 2024, 04:26:24 PM
Have the county and local officials I've voted for over the past 4 years affected my life in noticeable ways?

Absofreakinglutely.

Thankfully, it's been almost entirely positive.  I love my little suburb town.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 04:40:00 PM
The real question:

"Does the US collectively have the mental capacity to afford us two choices who are not both just plain awful?"

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 03, 2024, 04:47:19 PM
Please appreciate that I'm trying to do this in as non-partisan a way as I can because my honest opinion is that I'd be against him regardless of his mental state.  That said, his obviously declining mental state troubles me because the staffers (on both sides) tend to be pretty radical.  Basically this is because neutrals simply don't get involved in politics.  The people who DO get involved are wing nuts (both sides).  I think Biden's administration has been a bit more radical than it would otherwise have been because of this.  He isn't "there" to reign them in. 

Moving on, I get what you are saying and I can agree in almost all circumstances but there are some circumstances where making quick decisions is necessary.  Realistically, his advisors would probably just act on his behalf and deal with the consequences later so it probably doesn't cause a major problem.  That said, it does mean that his unelected underlings who (see above) are generally more radical than him are making decisions that they aren't Constitutionally authorized to make.  Over the years there has been a lot of criticism (mostly from the left) of Haig's rather infamous "I'm in charge here" comment after the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan.  Are we now effectively in that territory all, most, or some of the time? 
Well said, medina. And having watched one of my wife's best friends who went through early-onset with her mother, I'm sorry you had to go through that with your dad.


I think we're in a difficult place as a country. We potentially may elect someone who relies on his "handlers" to do things for him, those handlers as you point out being far more radical than he is. Or we may potentially elect someone who is himself radical as hell and--unlike his previous administration--will surround himself with yes men who will allow all of his radicalness to flourish rather than even attempt to restrain him. 

So who do you trust in most scenarios? Biden's handlers to do the right thing, or Trump himself to do the right thing? 



I think the problem with the latter is that Trump thinks "the right thing" is "whatever benefits me". 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 03, 2024, 05:01:40 PM
Raúl Grijalva: Joe Biden should withdraw from 2024 election (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4754535-raul-grijalva-joe-biden-drop-out-democrats/)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 03, 2024, 09:30:38 PM


I think we're in a difficult place as a country. We will potentially may elect someone who relies on his "handlers" to do things for him.
FIFY

Whichever we pick, they ain't all there.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 04, 2024, 12:09:00 AM
The real question:

"Does the US collectively have the mental capacity to afford us two choices who are not both just plain awful?"


This was my thinking in 2016.  

The parties obviously have always steered things and swayed where monies went and to whom, influence people, etc behind the scenes, but in 2016, the DNC seemed to do this blatantly while the GOP seemed to remain hands-off for whatever reason.
The Dems were so focused on producing the first woman president that they were willing to go the dynasty rule route, which is never good.  While none of the traditional R candidates seemed to benefit from the GOP (correct me if I'm wrong).  
I really thought Sanders had a shot in 16, but Hillary was the anointed one.
Looking back, I feel like part of JEB Bush's issues in debating Trump was sheer frustration that he never got the backing as their anointed one.

Everyone knows how Trump is, and he's had the GOP backing this whole time, which seems to be a big departure from how they'd behaved in the past.  I don't think that's a damning statement, just an observation.
I guess Biden has that DNC backing, despite his issues.

I think if each party just played the game straight and let the people genuinely determine these things, we'd all be better off.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 04, 2024, 07:49:14 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/zD7eV1I.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 07:51:59 AM
As douche in French just means shower, I'll go for that one.

My recollection is that the GoP was set against Trump until it became obvious he would win.  Fox News was clearly against him, until ...

The political parties are large disparate things not always easily managed.  The donor class is not always manageable either.  I think Clyburn decided on Biden after he lost the first two "elections" and gave him South Carolina, and everyone pretty much fell into line after that in 2020.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 08:00:30 AM
Van Jones: Democrats are discussing “how” to replace President Biden (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4755101-van-jones-democrats-how-to-replace-joe-biden/)

Behind the scenes, it’s full-scale panic,” Jones said. “People are passing around legal memos, PDFs are flying back and forth on WhatsApp, trying to figure out, what are the options? How can you replace Biden? How do you get him to do it in a way where he feels respected, as he should be respected?”
Jones suggested Democrats were proceeding under the assumption that Vice President Kamala Harris would be next in line (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4752714-kamala-harris-stronger-joe-biden-democrats/) for the top spot. Among the questions Democrats are trying to answer, Jones said, is, “Who should Kamala Harris’s  (https://thehill.com/people/kamala-harris/)vice president be?”
Jones praised Biden as “a great candidate” but said Democrats must be responsible in determining what the best path forward is.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 08:51:42 AM
Biden tries but fails to turn back rising tide threatening to swamp his reelection bid | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/04/politics/biden-rising-tide-pressure-reelection-bid-analysis/index.html)

I thought there was a small chance this would start to die down, something else would take over the headlines, thus far that has not happened.  I still think by end of July Biden will drop out of the race.  I don't think he'll resign the office, though that would be a good step politically I think.

Trump has done a good job being quiet, which is remarkable for him.  Is he starting to listen to advice?  I doubt it.

IF somehow there is a second debate, Trump could walk away with this thing if he continues to stay quiet and start to govern a lot of the burfle he says, just sound fairly reasonable.  I don't know if he could do that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 11:31:08 AM
White House now says Biden was seen by his doctor days after debate | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/04/politics/biden-doctor-debate/index.html)

This thing appears, to me, to be collapsing in slow motion, drip by drip, day by day.

They should rip he bandaid off, but are trying to slowly peel it off hoping something somehow changes. 

They have a one on one with a sympathetic "reporter" on Friday.  I don't think that can possibly be enough even if Joe looks hale and hearty.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 04, 2024, 12:02:18 PM
There is no grand plan to replace Biden (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4754490-there-is-no-grand-plan-to-replace-biden/)

No, I agree there is not, but either he is replaced or they lose, and they don't want to lose.  They may lose anyway.

I just can't see any way Joe can recover now.  The knives are out all over.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2024, 08:50:16 AM
The D Governors are all-in with Joe.

Apparently, 25+ D Reps are going to sign a letter asking him to step down.

They must be in swing districts.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 08:53:56 AM
I'd think Republicans would prefer Biden stays in the race politically, even down ballot Reps.

Biden has a very clear target on his back, just about any other issue is now secondary except the economy.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 08:57:23 AM
probably why we haven't heard much from them regarding Joe
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 09:04:21 AM
Yup.  I have a few Democrats (ardent) posting on Facebook pretty often, political stuff.  Of late, it's been about "Project 2025" and how that would be the end of us.  None of them have posted a thing about Joe's mental state, which to me is curious.  Trump has uncharacteristically laid low, for him, which tactically is a great move.  

Fear sells, and we're going to have an abundance of fear mongering this cycle, more than usual I suspect.  I don't know that either side has much of an affirmative realistic message, or so it seems to me.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2024, 09:14:01 AM
This headline on this article cracks me up.

Biden at 81: Sharp, focused but sometimes confused, forgetful | AP News (https://apnews.com/article/biden-age-election-debate-trump-7c366fda83a697265d9ecc77e8a32fd1?utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 09:33:08 AM
"mostly peaceful riots" ...

Most folks see such comments and think "WHAT?".  The ones who don't are past any redemption.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 09:58:54 AM
Kamala Harris: Democrats start moving to VP as President Joe Biden digs in | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/politics/kamala-harris-democrats-biden/index.html)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 09:59:43 AM
I thought they would go to Newsom, but now it appears, if any of this reportage is remotely true, they will try Harris, who I personally think is unlikeable as a candidate, which is a bad place for any politician.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 10:14:29 AM
why would Biden dig in and fight this

perhaps, he's waiting for a few to offer him a fistful of dollars to drop out?

He can't really enjoy the job or schedule, or believe he's really about to accomplish anything of substance
maybe so he can pardon his son?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:16:48 AM
He has dug in because he family is telling him it's all fine, apparently.  I think his wife likes being FL, the status, the apparent importance, etc.  He could pardon Hunter on the way out, I don't think that's a factor.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 10:18:13 AM
foolishness
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:23:55 AM
In my view, Joe has midstage dementia.  He probably does go in and out, but even when he's "in" he's not anything like 100%.  He can sound "OK" if everything is highly controlled and he's in an "in" phase.  This interview tonight will be as controlled as any can be, but it will depend a lot on whether Joe is mostly there, or not, and no one can manage that.  It could be another F-ing disaster.

At best, he will seem fairly "OK" and that would mean he stays in the race.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2024, 10:26:03 AM
In my view, Joe has midstage dementia.  He probably does go in and out, but even when he's "in" he's not anything like 100%.  He can sound "OK" if everything is highly controlled and he's in an "in" phase.  This interview tonight will be as controlled as any can be, but it will depend a lot on whether Joe is mostly there, or not, and no one can manage that.  It could be another F-ing disaster.

At best, he will seem fairly "OK" and that would mean he stays in the race.
I'm sure he's already got the questions for this "interview".

Stephanopolis is a tool.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:30:17 AM
Yup, that's what I meant by "as controlled as it can be".  But Joe can still have a bad day, and the spotlight is on him, any gaffe, any misstep, any  trailing off, any "We beat Medicare", and, well, it would be a disaster.  Even if he holds it together, folks will still be unconvinced except his partisans.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 10:32:32 AM
live or memorex??
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 05, 2024, 10:43:02 AM
why would Biden dig in and fight this

perhaps, he's waiting for a few to offer him a fistful of dollars to drop out?

He can't really enjoy the job or schedule, or believe he's really about to accomplish anything of substance
maybe so he can pardon his son?
I would assume he thinks he is the best chance for a Democrat to win, which might not be incorrect (not a great field there). And thus the best chance to advance the beliefs and ideals that he has basically works for his whole life.

some people shrink from a likely. Some are aggressively confident enough to think they’ll win, even if they won’t.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 10:45:31 AM
he's obviously not thinkin much a tall
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 10:56:07 AM
Live updates: Biden ABC News interview; 2024 election news | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-trump-election-07-05-24/index.html)

"They" are going to up their efforts to have Biden in what could appear to be more unscripted moments and events.  This clearly is an effort to counter the atrocious debate appearance, but I don't think it will work.  I guess they have to try, and then by end of month face reality.

And maybe, my assessment is just wrong and Joe had a cold.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 11:02:18 AM
he's cold from the neck up
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 11:09:09 AM
Other than the White House folks, I see very few on social media claiming Joe is fine, mentally, almost zero.  I did see a couple copy and pastes, but those were rare.  The main thing I'm seeing from "liberals" now is something about Project 2025.  One person posted the folks hammering Biden are just bedwetters, which is the  term used in a WH communication as well.

I don't think the "spin" is anywhere near working.  I SUSPECT liberals mostly have their head down hoping this passes and they pick someone else, which is fine with me.

If it was merely a poor debate performance, I would expect all sorts of attempts at his defense, and I'm seeing almost none.  I still can't see how this can be turned around somehow even if Biden goes public and looks "OK".

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 05, 2024, 11:09:31 AM
Biden calls himself a 'black woman' in latest gaffe as donors put money on hold (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-calls-himself-a-black-woman-in-latest-gaffe-as-donors-put-money-on-hold/ar-BB1pt9gG?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=043de064c77a45e9a0e293838ab31ec0&ei=10)


“By the way, I’m proud to be, as I said, the first vice president, first black woman… to serve with a black president."

“[I am] proud to be involved with the first black woman on the Supreme Court.”

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 11:30:08 AM
joe's been like this for years

I would not be surprised if he regularly wets the bed
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 11:45:02 AM
Joe has been a gaffe machine for years, but that's different from now, I think.  But any and every small gaffe now is magnified immensely.

Before it was kind of brushed off.  "Joe misspoke, what he meant was ...".

We've never seen him so obviously out of it before.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 11:52:17 AM
Joe Biden: Democratic donors say they won't finance party until he drops out (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/04/democratic-donors-wont-finance-party-until-joe-biden-drops-out.html)

I don't know how widely spread this is, but money talks.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 11:54:00 AM
https://youtu.be/4z2begqhdCU
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 11:55:45 AM
https://youtu.be/8MVZdS18NX8
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 11:58:13 AM
Why Kamala Harris is a stronger candidate against Trump than you think (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/kamala-harris-biden-trump-election-rcna160078)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 05, 2024, 01:12:06 PM
Joe Biden: Democratic donors say they won't finance party until he drops out (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/04/democratic-donors-wont-finance-party-until-joe-biden-drops-out.html)

I don't know how widely spread this is, but money talks.
When did they fire the coach? When the boosters pony up for the buyout
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 01:23:16 PM
One person suggested they get Biden to sign papers and slide in a resignation, then send Biden to Delaware telling him he's overdue for vacation and still President.  They could stage fake events for him there.

It might work.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 05, 2024, 01:24:17 PM
It's fascinating that a contract can be disputed on the grounds that the signer is infirm (or underage or coerced etc.)  So, if this happened, Joe could contest it on those grounds claiming he's not compos mentis.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 05, 2024, 07:32:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kKUye23KBQ
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 05, 2024, 09:15:09 PM
bedwetter
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 07:43:59 AM
I didn't watch, I gather he didn't have any massive failures last night.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 07:45:28 AM
didn't watch either

apparently he said he would beat Trump in 2020
not a huge error
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 07:49:46 AM
I didn't watch, I gather he didn't have any massive failures last night.
Massive failures? Stef/ABC/WH wasn't going to allow that to happen. The interview was pre-recorded and edited. Make of that what you will.

Stef (to his credit) did push Joe on taking a cognitive test. He asked at least five times.

Joe says he takes one every day. That's when I went back to DDD.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 07:57:22 AM
Also, it's disingenuous to allow Joe to keep claiming that "he created" 15 million jobs.

It's bogus, and it's a lie. He's still good at that, at least. Kudos, liar.

He didn't create shit. His ilk (Cuomo, Newsom, Pritzker, et. al.) killed 15+ million jobs during Covid.

The EMPLOYERS brought jobs back, along with red state governors who didn't crush companies.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 08:01:02 AM
I just read a few summaries this AM.  Nobody pointed to anything that would further damage his chances.  Nobody said it would do much to diminish the concerns either.  Joe claimed the debate was a "one off thing", just a bad night, nothing else.  His supporters will mostly buy that.  I think independents will mostly reserve judgment, and see what Trump does and says.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 08:02:20 AM
they're all liars
they all take credit for things they didn't do

when they're called out on it, it's a shrug
never held accountable
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 08:03:19 AM
how many "bad" nights can the president of the US afford to have?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 08:04:51 AM
"We" have to hold them to account.  The various "fact checkers" will do their checking, but the common theme by supporters is "Those guys are all liberals/conservative" so ignore them, even if their fact checking is clearly correct.

Presidents will always emphasize/exaggerate/misrepresent any "facts" that look good, and vice versa.  Trump claimed we had the best economy ever in his term, which is not correct either.  And in my view, a President has far less influence over an economy than most people think.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 08:07:05 AM
"We" have to hold them to account.  The various "fact checkers" will do their checking, but the common theme by supporters is "Those guys are all liberals/conservative" so ignore them, even if their fact checking is clearly correct.

Presidents will always emphasize/exaggerate/misrepresent any "facts" that look good, and vice versa.  Trump claimed we had the best economy ever in his term, which is not correct either.  And in my view, a President has far less influence over an economy than most people think.
I dunno.

The late '70's say "hold my beer".
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 08:21:50 AM
I think most voters think "It's he economy, stupid" when assessing a president's actions.  It's usually most of the "conversation" aside from conflicts overseas.  Even immigration relates to the economy.  And in my view, a President has less influence over an economy that most people think.  A President can inherit a bad economy, or a good one, and perhaps Congress passes some "relief" bills in the former case that just about any President would sign.  In the latter case, they mostly "do" nothing and let it ride.  What does a President "DO"?  He can get us entangled in some foreign conflict that can cause issues.  An adept President can influence Congress, but few of them are what I'd call adept.  

Many/most conservatives think our current economy is something close to horrible, many liberals think it's great, all due to Biden.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 08:25:53 AM
What does a President "DO"?

stands behind a podium and takes a beating
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 08:35:29 AM
I think most voters think "It's he economy, stupid" when assessing a president's actions.  It's usually most of the "conversation" aside from conflicts overseas.  Even immigration relates to the economy.  And in my view, a President has less influence over an economy that most people think.  A President can inherit a bad economy, or a good one, and perhaps Congress passes some "relief" bills in the former case that just about any President would sign.  In the latter case, they mostly "do" nothing and let it ride.  What does a President "DO"?  He can get us entangled in some foreign conflict that can cause issues.  An adept President can influence Congress, but few of them are what I'd call adept. 

Many/most conservatives think our current economy is something close to horrible, many liberals think it's great, all due to Biden. 
There are liberals who think the economy is bad today. Particularly those who would like to buy a home (like my brother).

We have a housing shortage, especially affordable housing. 

A lot of millennials are pretty sour right now. Gen Z is numb.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 08:43:18 AM
When I say "the economy", obviously I mean that in the broadest term.  One can obviously point to issues that affect some folks even in a decent economy.

I don't know what a President could or should do about the housing shortage/affordability problem, other than crashing the economy into major recession, that would probably drop prices.  And I'm not sure how a President could do even that.

I think our current economy is in pretty decent shape and I can point to issues therein.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 08:49:34 AM
To me it's fine but there are warning signs.

Where are 10-15 million new people living?

That's a bit of a problem.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2024, 08:59:32 AM
Setting presidential politics aside:

When you take all of the data into consideration like ( and this is by no means a complete list)
- national Debt
- labor market
- interest rates
- consumer spending
- consumer debt
- credit performance 
- retail property occupancy
-commercial property occupancy/vacancy
-inflation v wage trends
-housing availability 
-housing affordability 
-currency exchange/value
-business confidence and investment 
- fuel prices ( yes, separate from other inflation)

The economy is stuck in the mud and teetering on something worse.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 09:00:43 AM
There are always warning signs.  I've worried about warning signs since 1980.  I learned by experience that no economy is bereft of warning signs and hand wringers.

I turn on CNBC in the gym, they will feature "experts" pondering about the future, one will say it's great, another will claim we're at the edge of a deep depression.

The issue is that it's tough to view the warning signs and the positive signs all at once, it gets confusing and unclear, just like the future.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 09:06:53 AM
A main metric I look at is changes in real median income over time.  There are of course a bunch of others, but this one, for me, tends to summarize where we are economically in one chart.  Of course, an outside event can trigger a recession, and this won't predict that.  This chart isn't quite current, later data are "OK".  The lower chart is related.  This metric goes more directly to "how folks are feeling" out there.  Folks understand when they are pressed to "buy groceries" etc., and that's obviously an issue today.  

(https://i.imgur.com/88dZENH.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/QBjk6N2.png)

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 09:11:06 AM
Setting presidential politics aside:

When you take all of the data into consideration like ( and this is by no means a complete list)
- national Debt
- labor market
- interest rates
- consumer spending
- consumer debt
- credit performance
- retail property occupancy
-commercial property occupancy/vacancy
-inflation v wage trends
-housing availability
-housing affordability
-currency exchange/value
-business confidence and investment
- fuel prices ( yes, separate from other inflation)

The economy is stuck in the mud and teetering on something worse. 
This is your view, based on your experience and background/living?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 06, 2024, 09:43:28 AM
This is your view, based on your experience and background/living?
this is my view based on the very granular and up to date data I see.  I would love to share it but it is proprietary ( it would get me fired).  But it is public data, just assembled in a way to tell you what is going on out there.

It is not "horrible" by any stretch but it is not good, and trending the wrong way.   in general, People don't understand what the debt is doing to us, and they don't understand the business climate's impact on consumers. And mostly- they dont understand how much impact the housing market has on everything else.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 09:57:29 AM
I've lived through four major recessions since I knew about such things.  This isn't one (yet).  I think the economy is in OK shape.  I didn't think it was somehow great under Trump, it basically carried on as it was doing under Obama until COVID hit.  GDP growth is obviously one important metric, and it's doing decently well.  You wouldn't see the stock market where it is in a real recession.  I don't think construction around where we live would be as it is in a recession, and these are developers building now in expectation that things 2-3 years out will still be decent.  I'm even seeing new Class A office space being built (which puzzles me).

Partisans will say if our guy is elected, everything will be grand, and if the other guys is elected, it will be a complete catastrophe.  That's just partisan speech to me, I ignore it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 10:12:27 AM
Office space vacancy rates are broadly way lower than normal, and that isn't good.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 10:14:26 AM
working from home
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 10:18:33 AM
I don't know why that caught my eye, curiosity I suppose, but what is the data there? Is it too high? Too low?
It's very low. The shopping malls (and even some strip malls) are suffering, and/or going away.

The large mall North from us is converting to affordable residential. The Grand Avenue Mall in Milwaukee is doing the same.

Many, many examples.

Anchor Stores like Bloomies and Macy's are teetering. Sears and Carson's are gone. JCP is close. Without anchors, malls can't make it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2024, 10:25:59 AM
There are liberals who think the economy is bad today. Particularly those who would like to buy a home (like my brother).

We have a housing shortage, especially affordable housing.

A lot of millennials are pretty sour right now. Gen Z is numb.
Hmmm, that's interesting. I've never thought the inability to buy homes was the sign of a "bad" economy. In fact, I've usually felt the opposite. 

I do wonder how much of it long term is the result of policies that try to help non-homeowners while also catering to the wants of homeowners/property owners, i.e. injecting cash to try to avoid dips in property value. I also wonder if there's a workaround that doesn't involve someone taking a bath, and in the end who is forced to take that bath. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 06, 2024, 10:27:52 AM
It's very low. The shopping malls (and even some strip malls) are suffering, and/or going away.

The large mall North from us is converting to affordable residential. The Grand Avenue Mall in Milwaukee is doing the same.

Many, many examples.

Anchor Stores like Bloomies and Macy's are teetering. Sears and Carson's are gone. JCP is close. Without anchors, malls can't make it.
Shoot, I had a brain fart and didn't read "retail."

Yeah, that's gonna be an interesting transition socially. With movie theaters probably in their twilight too, those spaces will probably just fail, and maybe that's fine in the long term. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 10:28:30 AM
Transitional items like shopping malls suffering are not to me a sign of a poor economy, same with office space vacancy rates.

I don't see a "government" solution to the housing shortages.  I think when/if interest rates drop back to 4% or so, it will start to alleviate.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 06, 2024, 10:29:59 AM
Policy stuff like this really should be in our catch-all thread. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 06, 2024, 10:33:11 AM
It's very low. The shopping malls (and even some strip malls) are suffering, and/or going away.

The large mall North from us is converting to affordable residential. The Grand Avenue Mall in Milwaukee is doing the same.

Many, many examples.

Anchor Stores like Bloomies and Macy's are teetering. Sears and Carson's are gone. JCP is close. Without anchors, malls can't make it.
Yeah, one of the malls near us was recently bulldozed. For a while they were talking about transforming it, but it would still be a primarily restaurant / retail plan. A couple years back they drastically reduced the retail portion, increasing the amount planned for office/residential spaces. 

That was always one of the weaker malls in the area, but I can say a slightly more ritzy mall also nearby seems to have pretty weak foot traffic any time I've headed that way. 

Malls are dying. Online shopping has really hurt them. Even now, I find my wife semi-frequently goes to the mall--but only because that's the brick & mortar location to return something she bought online and didn't fit or she didn't like. She doesn't actually go shopping there. 

We have a couple that are still healthy. But generally they either have significant restaurant / nightlife options to draw people, or [in one case] is very high end shops that probably don't easily lend themselves to online shopping (i.e. Louis Vuitton, BVLGARI, Jimmy Choo, and a bunch of ones I can't recognize because I'm not a fashionista). 

That said, I'm not sure we can look at the health of malls as a proxy for "the economy". It's not necessarily that people aren't spending, they're just changing the mode of spending to more online and less physical retail. I would think overall consumer spending is the more relevant metric. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 10:37:44 AM
Start of North DeKalb Mall demolition draws out politicians, mixed emotions and memories – Decaturish (https://decaturish.com/2024/06/start-of-north-dekalb-mall-demolition-draws-out-politicians-mixed-emotions-and-memories/)

This mall just got demo'd.  One up in Gwinett is empty.  One in Cincy has been empty for a while now, and another is almost empty.  Malls with few exceptions are goners.  The strip mall near us is always packed, but that's a special situation.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 10:51:59 AM
buy online

pay FedX for shipping
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 10:58:27 AM
A nice thing for us about living here is the packages are delivered to the front desk, no porch pirates.  But we see daily the numbers of packages that arrive.  I'm sure it's a massive hit to store retail.  We hardly buy anything at a mall now, or go, my wife goes on occcasion, I have not been inside a mall in .... a long time.  I went with her a while back to take her computer to an Apple Store so they could help fix it.

We went to an outlet mall in Florida, it was crowded.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 11:02:59 AM
Biden's family trying to get more involved in campaign as long-simmering tensions with aides spill out (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/06/bidens-family-trying-to-get-more-involved-in-campaign-as-long-simmering-tensions-with-aides-spill-out.html)

“I believe the family has witnessed blunder after blunder by key staff personnel and the debate is likely the straw that broke the camel’s back,” the source said. “Post-debate, the supposed loyal staff, instead of taking responsibility, pointed the finger back at the president and said: ‘His fault.’ I can think of no other singular action that would agitate the Biden family more.” 

The bigger concern now among some of Biden’s inner circle is that the kind of disagreements among them that had long been resolved internally risk playing out in public as pressure on the president mounts. Family conversations have largely centered on how to continue to support the president moving forward, five sources familiar with the matter said.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 11:24:21 AM
I'd have to be paid well to support Old Joe
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 06, 2024, 12:25:10 PM
I didn't watch, I gather he didn't have any massive failures last night.
there would be zero reason for anyone to watch that interview. it was a pre-recorded, edited soft-ball tongue bath interview done by a card-carrying DNC operative hack who is a loyalist to his former bosses the Clintons- who happen to be some of the most repugnant disgusting unlikable human beings ever to live- the both of them. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 06, 2024, 12:50:01 PM
they're all liars
they all take credit for things they didn't do

when they're called out on it, it's a shrug
never held accountable
no shit. amazes me that people think Trump is some kind of brand new thing we've never seen before in politics....and that he is the first politician ever to lie. ummm....wtf? seriously people? Biden is one of the greatest liars in the history of politics. he's most definitely in the hall of fame of political lying.

Bush II lied the US into war with Iraq over WMDs that never existed. Bush II ran an illegal world wide torture campaign. Bush II basically created the security state and warrantless illegal spying on US citizens. But Trump is the greatest threat and liar we've ever seen. Yeah....um....k. :043:
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 01:23:09 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4757490-nate-silver-joe-biden-resign-abc-interview/
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 06, 2024, 01:41:39 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/06/politics/biden-abc-interview-analysis/index.html

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-interview-reaction-mixed-rcna160479
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2024, 06:26:14 PM
no shit. amazes me that people think Trump is some kind of brand new thing we've never seen before in politics....and that he is the first politician ever to lie. ummm....wtf? seriously people? Biden is one of the greatest liars in the history of politics. he's most definitely in the hall of fame of political lying.

Bush II lied the US into war with Iraq over WMDs that never existed. Bush II ran an illegal world wide torture campaign. Bush II basically created the security state and warrantless illegal spying on US citizens. But Trump is the greatest threat and liar we've ever seen. Yeah....um....k. :043:
Trump lies about everything, even little things.  Mundane shit no one cares about.  Ask him if he wears makeup, he'd tell you he's been playing a lot of golf.
No one lies as much as him.  No politician.  No person chosen at random.  No criminal.

It's all he does.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 08:08:24 PM
and it doesn't matter, cause lying in politics is expected
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2024, 08:15:24 PM
No one lies as much as him.
SEC recruiters and nancy pelosi say hello
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 06, 2024, 08:19:11 PM
and Billary
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 06, 2024, 09:37:50 PM
Ya but the economy was great under slick willie
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 06, 2024, 10:46:21 PM
and it doesn't matter, cause lying in politics is expected
Why do you pretend like severity isn't a thing?

Yes, the parents telling their kid Santa brings them toys for Christmas are lying, but sweeping them under the same rug as Trump is dishonest. And you know it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 07:56:54 AM
Trump is possibly the biggest liar ever.  So what?
Did you get duped by one or more of his lies?
Did you actually believe he wasn't lying and get fooled?

He's been the biggest liar for decades, long before he was president.

did you expect someone different in 2024 than 2019?

It's like complaining that SEC coaches are cheating.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 07:57:48 AM
So, this is a thread about Trump now. It's the Liberal way.

Q- Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?

A- But Trump! Orange Man Bad! Mean Tweets!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 07:58:52 AM
Joe lied about plenty of things during the debate, but that wasn't as bad as Trump
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:00:46 AM
Joe lied about plenty of things during the debate, but that wasn't as bad as Trump
Joe said Trump lied 28 times during the debate.

Nobody has been able to support that lie.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 08:01:38 AM
So, this is a thread about Trump now. It's the Liberal way.

Q- Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?

A- But Trump! Orange Man Bad! Mean Tweets!
Per Trump votes shouldn't count anyway so I suppose it is all academic
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 08:10:59 AM
Joe said Trump lied 28 times during the debate.

Nobody has been able to support that lie.
Joe didn't understand that he was lying during the debate and didn't realize he was lying about the number of times Trump lied.
Joe doesn't even know what Joe said.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 08:12:14 AM
I assume everyone's watched the video of Trump and Biden leaving the debate.........

Biden doesn't have the physical capacity to be president.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:14:01 AM
Per Trump votes shouldn't count anyway so I suppose it is all academic
Exhibit A.

TDS
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:14:46 AM
I assume everyone's watched the video of Trump and Biden leaving the debate.........

Biden doesn't have the physical capacity to be president.
He just had a bad night.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 08:31:26 AM
Exhibit A.

TDS
Golly why should anyone be wary of a candidate who doesn't believe in elections? You'd have to be deranged to care about that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 08:31:55 AM
The various "fact checkers" had Trump "lying" around 30 times in the debate.  You can argue they are all biased, but it's a basis for Biden's claim.

Fact checking the CNN presidential debate | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html)

[color=var(--theme-headline__text-color)]Trump made more than 30 false claims during CNN’s presidential debate — far more than Biden[/color]



These things do matter, to me, quite a bit.  And yes, politicians lie, I'm more or less resigned to that, but usually it's more of a mischaracterization/exaggeration, with some purpose in mind.  I imagine we've all run across a person who simply lies a LOT for no real reason, and my objective was then to avoid them.  They have some personality issue in my view.  I think often they are highly insecure and wish to dramatize their life history, or something, but it's weird, to me, really pathological and narcissistic.  

And I usually "believe" fact checkers, knowing they can be wrong at times, they provide background information one can check, instead of blowing them off out of hand because one doesn't like what they have to say.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 08:33:41 AM
Having these two "candidates" as our choice is, for me, a sign our System is badly broken.  I wouldn't want either one in ANY elected position anywhere, or any other position with any influence on anything.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:38:08 AM
Golly why should anyone be wary of a candidate who doesn't believe in elections? You'd have to be deranged to care about that.
He believes in elections, or he wouldn't be running in one.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:41:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/oOtDZxe.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 08:43:36 AM
He believes in elections, or he wouldn't be running in one.
Lol yeah ok. And Joe Biden is in his prime. If we are gonna ignore reality might as well go the whole way
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 08:49:43 AM
I think the obvious question is whether Joe bows out SOON, and who replaces him (KH odds on bet).  Rampant speculation out there of course, which in itself is very damaging to his prospects.  Any candidate will have missteps over the months, Biden can't have ANY.  Even a minor gaffe, trip, weirdness caught on camera, will get blown up on him after the debate.  I think he's starting to hear a LOT of Democratic voices whispering, or flat telling him, to rethink this.  He HAS to say he isn't dropping out of course, any lack of certainty from him on that point would end it.

If he somehow doesn't drop out preconvention, I suspect there will be a very damaging move to replace him at that point, something Democrats could hardly afford.  So, my GUESS is before end of this month, he will try and appear to be a statesman etc.  He'll remain in office and let Harris run.

If Trump would simply SHUT HIS MOUTH he'd win I think.  I don't think he can do that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 08:53:36 AM
If Trump would simply SHUT HIS MOUTH he'd win I think.  I don't think he can do that.
He seems to be listening to you lately.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 08:54:53 AM
https://youtu.be/0djN1AR7UNk
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 09:00:16 AM
"Doctor" J really likes living in the White House Nursing Home.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 09:04:40 AM
Wow.

******************

“While interview hosts have always been free to ask whatever questions they please, moving forward we will refrain from offering suggested questions,” a source familiar with Biden’s booking operation for media outlets told the outlet.

Radio host Andrea Lawful-Sanders, who interviewed President Biden on Wednesday, revealed during a discussion on CNN that the president's team provided a list of questions to approve prior to the interview. 
"The questions were sent to me for approval. I approved them," Sanders said. CNN host Victor Blackwell noted the questions during both appearances were about his accomplishments, debate performance, progress in both Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, what's at stake in the election, and what he would say to voters who are considering not voting in the presidential election. 
Blackwell followed up, "So the White House sent the questions to you ahead of the interview?"


"Yes, I got several questions, eight of them, and the four that were chosen were the ones that I approved," Sanders continued.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 09:07:15 AM
I don't think this practice is unusual or even problematic.  The publicity from it is bad, it wouldn't be bad if Biden were "normal".

It happens often.  In this case, it looks bad.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 09:07:52 AM
not surprising
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 09:14:46 AM
I don't think this practice is unusual or even problematic.  The publicity from it is bad, it wouldn't be bad if Biden were "normal".

It happens often.  In this case, it looks bad. 
So, you are OK with this?

Do you really think the DJT campaign does this, and do you really think the media would oblige if so?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 09:30:47 AM
happens with interviews with many folks
perhaps not always scripted per say, but even coaches will politely refuse to speak about some subjects

I assume even Donald has had interviews and/or press conferences where he's given the reporters some guidance on what questions should be asked and what won't be allowed.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 09:30:50 AM
I'm OK with this, I think it happens often, and don't see a problem with it.

It looks bad in this case.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2024, 09:39:06 AM
So, you are OK with this?

Do you really think the DJT campaign does this, and do you really think the media would oblige if so?
My guess would be that this happens all the time. In an interview, the interviewee probably has certain topics that they affirmatively want to have covered. While that doesn't make up an entire interview, it makes sure that the interviewer gets to ask the questions they want to ask, but that the interviewee also gets to talk about the topics that they want aired. 

And yes, I would think the Trump campaign does this. Do you really think Hannity and the other FNC folks wouldn't oblige this for Trump? Frankly, if Trump was going into "hostile territory", don't you think one of the conditions of the interview might be that a certain portion of the questions were things he wanted to be asked, and the interviewer would oblige in order to secure the interview? 

I think this is how the sausage is made.

Like CD says, this looks bad because Biden already looks bad. If Trump or Obama did it, it might look like vanity. If Biden does it, it looks like he doesn't have the competency or quickness to answer any question he hasn't prepared for. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 09:45:48 AM
My guess would be that this happens all the time. In an interview, the interviewee probably has certain topics that they affirmatively want to have covered. While that doesn't make up an entire interview, it makes sure that the interviewer gets to ask the questions they want to ask, but that the interviewee also gets to talk about the topics that they want aired.

And yes, I would think the Trump campaign does this. Do you really think Hannity and the other FNC folks wouldn't oblige this for Trump? Frankly, if Trump was going into "hostile territory", don't you think one of the conditions of the interview might be that a certain portion of the questions were things he wanted to be asked, and the interviewer would oblige in order to secure the interview?

I think this is how the sausage is made.

Like CD says, this looks bad because Biden already looks bad. If Trump or Obama did it, it might look like vanity. If Biden does it, it looks like he doesn't have the competency or quickness to answer any question he hasn't prepared for.
I do not.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 09:48:44 AM
A candidate's advisers in most cases can pretty well predict which questions will be asked by certain interviewers anyway.  Giving a list of OPTIONAL questions to be asked is a pretty standard practice.  So long as it's not predicated on getting the interview in the first place, and the interviewer is free to ask anything they want, it's fine with me.

Whether Trump does this or not doesn't matter to me, at all.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 09:51:02 AM
It matters to me.

A President needs to be able to think on his own, 24/7/365.

Putin or Xi aren't gonna telegraph their plans to the President.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 09:52:57 AM
So, this interviewer got 8 proposed questions, used 4 of them (which she might have asked anyway), and also asked probably ten more questions of her own choosing?

Where's the problem?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 10:18:33 AM
Putin or Xi aren't gonna telegraph their plans to the President.
they control their interviews and press conferences
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 07, 2024, 10:19:33 AM
I do not.
You might have a point with Trump. After all, he talks about whatever the hell he wants to talk about anyway regardless of what question is asked, as the debate showed... I'm not sure he is even listening to the question... After all it's not him talking, so it can't be THAT important... :57:
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 10:19:39 AM
“We wanted to hear more from Trump tonight. Our Mike Gooding was scheduled to interview the former president after the rally,” WVEC anchor Dan Kennedy said. “But just about 15 minutes ago the Trump team canceled on Mike Gooding after asking us what our questions would be for the former president, telling Mike that there was no more time and that the former president only wanted to talk about last night’s debate.”
In a social media post sharing the video, the Biden campaign derided Trump for backing out of the interview, writing, “A paranoid and overwhelmed Trump cancels his TV interview after asking the reporter what questions they planned on asking.”
When asked by CNN on Saturday whether Trump backed out of the interview, the former president’s campaign ignored the claim and instead slammed Biden for allegedly providing questions to interviewers in advance.

From CNN, so ...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 10:20:47 AM
Yeah, OK.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 10:24:05 AM
Here is my fake interview with Trump.

"How would you handle the national deficit?"

"I had the best national deficit during my Presidency of all time.  It was perfect.  I'm the king of debt, I understand debt, Joe Biden doesn't know what debt is, he's looney tunes you know?  A catastrophe for the country, letting in rapists and murders on the southern border.  I closed that border, he left it wide open, WIDE open.  And crashed the economy which I left him in perfect shape.  Sleepy Joe, I call him, and his side kick, whoever she is "Kermeller" or some such, she's even worse."
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 10:27:12 AM
Vote for policy. Period.

I'd vote for Micky Mouse if I thought he could do a good job on things I care about.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 10:27:25 AM
Here is my fake interview with Trump.

"How would you handle the national deficit?"

"I had the best national deficit during my Presidency of all time.  It was perfect.  I'm the king of debt, I understand debt, Joe Biden doesn't know what debt is, he's looney tunes you know?  A catastrophe for the country, letting in rapists and murders on the southern border.  I closed that border, he left it wide open, WIDE open.  And crashed the economy which I left him in perfect shape.  Sleepy Joe, I call him, and his side kick, whoever she is "Kermeller" or some such, she's even worse."
Now do Joe.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 10:32:34 AM
"How would you  handle the national debt?"

Joe... "I would, you know, the debt, which was, well, not good, and inflation was 9% when I came into office, and we brought that down to, uh, brought it down a lot.  And then we fixed the broken economy I inherited which was in terrible shape, terrible.  I, uh, then, well, uh, we beat Medicare...."
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 10:35:11 AM
Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the United States?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 10:41:16 AM
Obviously, I don't think he does, I don't think there is much argument on that point either.  I have yet to hear anyone defend Joe as being compos mentis, or even close.  

You'd have to be a complete partisan, or not paying any attention, to think he does.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 10:45:54 AM
Obviously, I don't think he does, I don't think there is much argument on that point either.  I have yet to hear anyone defend Joe as being compos mentis, or even close. 

You'd have to be a complete partisan, or not paying any attention, to think he does.
(https://i.imgur.com/hUqHlPo.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 11:04:27 AM
I understand the "Trump Sucks"

I don't understand the "Yes"
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 11:07:31 AM
I understand the "Trump Sucks"

I don't understand the "Yes"
Trump's name was not mentioned in the question. Not sure why it was even part of the poll.

Q- Do you like apples?

A- I hate oranges.

Me: Ummm...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 11:09:15 AM
Not sure why it was even part of the poll.

to give the liberals an answer to click
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 11:09:48 AM
no "maybes"
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MarqHusker on July 07, 2024, 11:13:08 AM
Obviously, I don't think he does, I don't think there is much argument on that point either.  I have yet to hear anyone defend Joe as being compos mentis, or even close. 

You'd have to be a complete partisan, or not paying any attention, to think he does.
You obviously haven't seen the Gov confab where Governor Joe Isuzu,  er Gov Walz says so w a straight face.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 11:32:04 AM
Yeah, they are clearly "complete partisans".  They are excused.  Even some partisans think he doesn't have it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 11:37:34 AM
Vote for policy. Period.

I'd vote for Micky Mouse if I thought he could do a good job on things I care about.
If that is the standard then Joe Biden is competent to be president
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 11:38:31 AM
If that is the standard then Joe Biden is competent to be president
You forgot the "things I care about" part.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 11:40:37 AM
Yup, a vegetable could be President if it's solely about policy being set by "underlings".   I'm actually not all that clear on the "policies" of either, they don't talk about it much beyond the usual soundbites.

Trump says "Drill baby drill" as a priority, and I find that idiotic twaddle if taken literally.  The same with "close the border".

By now I don't really expect anything thoughtful and sophisticated from either.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 11:44:28 AM
I glance at MSNBC when something like this happens as a bit of a cloudy window into how "liberals" are presenting stuff.

How did Biden do in his ABC interview? Why reaction was so mixed (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-interview-reaction-mixed-rcna160479)

It's not good, at all.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 07, 2024, 04:41:08 PM
I'm starting to think he bails this week, for a Harris-Newsom ticket - not decided by the delegation at an open convention in Chicago but decided by the Democratic Elites. 

So typical.

Anyway, California "leadership" goes to Washington. 

What could go wrong?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2024, 04:51:03 PM
Newsome as a VP would be a waste.  They'd need someone from one of the midwest states up for grabs.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 05:03:25 PM
They can’t both be from the same state. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 07, 2024, 05:25:13 PM
They can’t both be from the same state.
Is that a rule or a norm?  Norms don't exist anymore.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 05:31:04 PM
It's in that Constitution thing, something I guess folks don't teach in school any more.  They actually can run, but they won't get electoral votes for both President and Vice President from their home state, which in the case of CA is a something.  It poses a weird risk of having the President and VP from different parties, as we did it way back in the day anyway.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 05:57:38 PM
Harris could say she lives in D.C. now.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 07, 2024, 06:02:58 PM
This has happened before, they can "change residence", as Dick Cheney did with Bush.  She could register to vote in DC.  

But I agree that if she heads the ticket, she would need a VP from Michigan or something like that, probably not another female.

Nobody here seems to think Joe is of "sound mind", eh?  Do we all think a President should have a "sound mind", preferentially, as one of the top criteria?

Integrity would be up there, for me, along with some experience in getting things done.  These days, I care less about political leanings than those three things.  Congress generally limits excesses.  Remember the "public option" on Obamacare?  Lieberman said no.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 07, 2024, 06:27:18 PM
I don't really have a sense of what will happen if Biden says he isn't running. The closest parallel I know about is Lyndon Johnson, and he announced in March and in a time where most states didn't choose candidates by primary. Ohio was already threatening to not have Biden on the ballot due to some timeline issues. Dems were going to have a virtual convention to get around that, though Ohio ended up passing a law to fix it, I think.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 07, 2024, 06:43:08 PM
it's the biggest shit show in my lifetime
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 07, 2024, 07:34:23 PM
I'm starting to think he bails this week, for a Harris-Newsom ticket - not decided by the delegation at an open convention in Chicago but decided by the Democratic Elites.

Aren't those basically the same thing? Or are you using "delegation" to just mean the outcome of a primary?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Hawkinole on July 08, 2024, 12:29:58 AM
I responded "No."  I do not believe he has the mental capacity to be president of the US.

I also believe Trump sucks and that Biden belongs in a nursing home.
Home healthcare works well for a while. I don't think Biden belongs in a nursing home. His spouse can give him some care, and if they need more assistance, they have the secret service, and they could retain home healthcare workers.
Biden should step aside, and allow another Democrat to run.
If he does step aside and suspend his campaign, the age and mental acuity issue will alone be focused on the former president.
A super majority of the electorate wanted neither of these candidates to run. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 07:38:06 AM
Aren't those basically the same thing? Or are you using "delegation" to just mean the outcome of a primary?
I think we can see "delegates" who are usually low level or county level Democratic Party "officials" and supporters, and the elites who likely are not "delegates" but hold a lot of power.  They can horse trade, by elevating those delegates to potentially lucrative party or government positions.

Ambassador to Lithuania?

Assistant Associate Secretary of Commerce?

Vote for my guy/gal ...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 08:21:17 AM
Newsome as a VP would be a waste.  They'd need someone from one of the midwest states up for grabs.
It's not up for grabs, but this guy is almost as good as Newsom for f'ing things up.


(https://i.imgur.com/5wO3lgZ.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2024, 08:25:38 AM
I think we can see "delegates" who are usually low level or county level Democratic Party "officials" and supporters, and the elites who likely are not "delegates" but hold a lot of power.  They can horse trade, by elevating those delegates to potentially lucrative party or government positions.

Ambassador to Lithuania?

Assistant Associate Secretary of Commerce?

Vote for my guy/gal ...
I suppose. I guess if you really want a late change, I always assumed it would fall into some realm of "politics," which is trading and compromise to get things done. 

Honestly, both should probably step down, age and mental acuity factored in. And then we get what we get. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 08:32:47 AM
I guess this happens often too, seeing that "all" politicians provide approved questions to hosts?

Radio station 'parts ways' with host after admitting White House gave her questions before Biden interview | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media/radio-station-parts-ways-host-after-admitting-white-house-gave-her-questions-before-biden-interview)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 08:33:58 AM
There are power brokers in both parties because there is a ton of power and influence to be had if your party wins the White House.  Look at how many appointments a President can make, and the Senate goes along with rare exceptions.  Nearly all these positions are highly desirable for the rank and file.  So, these "behind the scenes" folks who wield this power are the invisible movers and shakers.  And they know each other, with few exceptions, and I'd bet a nickel they are conversing hard right now about what to do and how to do it.

This is akin to what conservatives call the "Deep State", but that will always exist.  Maybe a typical President makes a few decisions, on occasion, do X instead of Y, but most of the time I think these folks make it for him.  And in the case of Biden, I can see them looking at polling very closely for impact from the first debate and where things stand.  It'll take a couple weeks, they have a contingency plan already forming, and then they will pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 08:36:47 AM
I guess this happens often too, seeing that "all" politicians provide approved questions to hosts?
I wouldn't say "all", I'd say it's quite common.  Candidates are "handled" by their handlers.  The handlers will be asked for interviews all the time from Joe and Sally and Bill.  They control who gets the interviews, and they know which will throw softballs.  And they will suggest questions to be asked.  

If it's up to the host to ask them or not, it's fine with me.  My guess is the host will usually ask roughly half of them to keep the handlers happy, and perhaps get a future interview.  An adept handler will pretty much know the questions to be asked anyway.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: GopherRock on July 08, 2024, 08:59:51 AM
Why is the pundit class so desperate to push Biden out of the race? (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/06/biden-trump-race-rebecca-solnit)


Quote
I am not usually one to offer diagnoses of people I’ve never met, but it does seem like the pundit class of the American media is suffering from severe memory loss. Because they’re doing exactly what they did in the 2016 presidential race – providing wildly asymmetrical and inflammatory coverage of the one candidate running against Donald J Trump.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 09:02:28 AM
LMAO
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 09:02:43 AM
One explanation for their actions is they think Biden is going to lose, and they don't like that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 09:04:27 AM
There is a fellow on FB I knew in HS who is, well, hyper liberal and hyper active.  He really thinks the media largely are on the side of Republicans and biased against progressive candidates because the billionaires who own the media don't want higher taxes.

He also thinks inflation was caused by corporate greed, I mean, CEOs woke up one morning and suddenly were greedy and raised prices.

It can be entertaining.  One of his recent posts, TFG = Trump, I'm not sure why.

TFG is probably insane, he is amazingly uninformed, was utterly incompetent in office ( Covid, 500,00 extra deaths; incompetent plan to withdraw from Afghanistan, a Middle East peace process that dealt out the Palestinians which led directly to October 7, and so on) yet his infirmity and incompetence is not reported. I think the media owners fear higher taxes more than the death of democracy
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2024, 09:11:13 AM
TFG = Trump, I'm not sure why.
Seen that one before. TFG = The Former Guy
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 09:17:01 AM
This election cycle may get more hyperbolic, and hypergolic, than usual.

If we elect TFG, it means end of democracy and cozying up to Putin along with tax cuts for billionaires.

If we elect TCG, it means hoards of illegals, much higher taxes and deficits, and depression.  

It looks bad no matter who wins ....
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 08, 2024, 09:41:24 AM
Doom sells.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 08, 2024, 09:44:12 AM
It's starting to look like President Biden will suffer the same fate as he said his uncle did in WW2.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2024, 10:03:39 AM
Seen that one before. TFG = The Former Guy

Ha, I always thought it was a different word than former.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2024, 10:03:54 AM
Doom sells.
Victimhood too. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 10:04:53 AM
Still all in.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/biden-tells-democrats-he-is-running-this-race-to-the-end-71e3b464?st=h722g00y5thp9pm&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 10:07:10 AM
Why do you pretend like severity isn't a thing?

Yes, the parents telling their kid Santa brings them toys for Christmas are lying, but sweeping them under the same rug as Trump is dishonest. And you know it.
severity? you want to talk about severity, give me a f**cking break. 

Trump's lies are MINUSCULE in comparison to the severity of the consequences caused by the countless lies told by his predecessors. He lies about how rich he is, how awesome he is at everything. The motherf*ckers that came before him lied about you know- actual important sh*t that your government was doing with your tax dollars in your name- and wrought nothing but death and destruction upon black and brown people in far away foreign lands. 

Give. Me. A. F*cking. Break. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 10:09:50 AM
Joe said Trump lied 28 times during the debate.

Nobody has been able to support that lie.
Biden has lied a factor of god knows how much more than Trump- cause: he's a corrupt bought and paid for piece of sh*t owned by the military industrial complex and billionaire big tech wall street donor class and he's been in politics FAR longer- and Biden's lies have had serious and devastating consequences to millions of people in this country and around the world.

you cannot even begin to compare the two in terms of lies and the severity of their lies.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 10:25:11 AM
Having these two "candidates" as our choice is, for me, a sign our System is badly broken.  I wouldn't want either one in ANY elected position anywhere, or any other position with any influence on anything.
Trump winning in 2016 was a clear sign that system was broken. it's been broken. long before Trump came around. when a failed casino owner, hotelier/golf course owner, semi-retired Manhattan property developer turned TV gameshow host notorious for cheating on all 3 of his wives and banging models and playboy playmates wins the presidency because he was the only candidate able to get on one of the two tickets that was talking about the many grievances ordinary everyday Americans had and was wisely channeling their anger at the DC establishment and status quo- and he rode it all the way to the White House.

I firmly still believe to this day that if the DNC hadn't sabotaged Bernie Sanders and rigged their process to ensure Hillary Clinton was the nominee that Bernie would've beaten Trump in 2016. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 10:38:18 AM
I'm starting to think he bails this week, for a Harris-Newsom ticket - not decided by the delegation at an open convention in Chicago but decided by the Democratic Elites.

So typical.

Anyway, California "leadership" goes to Washington.

What could go wrong?
I don't think there's anyway in hell Harris is the nominee if Biden drops out. She is even more unpopular than he is. I still don't think Biden will drop out. They'll have to article 25 him. He's not going away willingly. Someone whose entire adult life has been spent as a politician and all about trying to weasel his way into the Presidency isn't going to just give that up. 

I think they'll have to article 25 him and Kamalala will get rolled by the donors and told to stfu and put in her place and Newsom will be their guy. Newsom has a shot at Trump. Kamalala has zero shot. And they know it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 10:38:31 AM
One explanation for their actions is they know Biden is going to lose, and they don't like that.
FIFY.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:01:31 AM
I really think Harris is the only viable option politically.  I also think it's one reason there aren't more calls for Joe to drop.  She's not vastly less popular than he is, the polls I see have them both aronud 36% approval, and running about the same with DJT in a hypothetical.

I don't think they can drop her without massive repercussions.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:03:17 AM
I can't think of a current politician in Federal office I like.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 11:22:46 AM
I can't think of a current politician in Federal office I like.
I like Tim Scott. I like our local US Rep.

Our FL Senators are meh.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:23:25 AM
Harris 2024 Election Odds 2X Better Than Biden To Beat Trump - Benzinga (https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrency/24/07/39651791/kamala-harris-trumps-biden-in-2024-election-odds-leads-her-boss-in-3-of-6-swing-states)

2024 General Election: Trump vs. Harris Polls | RealClearPolling (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris)

I suspect once the Democratic powers that be determine she has a better shot and Joe can't recover, he'll be escorted out of the race, but left as President.

It takes a couple of weeks for polls to settle down and get a read of course, and then maybe a few days to make it happen.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:28:21 AM

If Joe Biden can't do it, Kamala Harris sure can (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4756495-biden-harris-trump-presidential-race/)

Juan Williams, of course a well known Democratic supporter and opinionator.

He engages in some double speak here.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 11:32:37 AM
Does Kamala Harris have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the United States?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 11:35:00 AM
Is that a rule or a norm?  Norms don't exist anymore.
Constitutionally the electors from a State can't vote for a President and a VP both from their State.

Thus, unless Harris could re-register elsewhere they'd give up California's EVs for the VP slot.

There are 538 EVs:
538/2=269.

In 2016 Biden/Harris got 306. California has 55 so if you take those away:
306-55=251, NOT a majority. 

IIRC if there is no majority:


Here is where it gets REALLY screwy. I *THINK* the Senate that makes the decision would be the one elected this fall, not the current one, but I think that Harris, as current VP would get a vote. 

The Senate is currently REALLY close at 52-49 Democratic including Harris (as VP). 

I have no idea what happens if the Senate deadlocks and can't break the tie and this isn't completely implausible, consider:

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:39:39 AM
I think it's pretty easy to change state of residency for most of these folks, but there probably is a timing issue at some point.  Does DC count as a different state?

Anyway, I don't think Harris-Newsom is a likely pairing.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 11:45:10 AM
I think it's pretty easy to change state of residency for most of these folks, but there probably is a timing issue at some point.  Does DC count as a different state?

Anyway, I don't think Harris-Newsom is a likely pairing. 
I Don think it has to be "a different state". IIRC, the constitutional language is that at least one of the two shall be "not from" the state.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:46:27 AM
Cheney changed his residency to be VP with Bush back in the day.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 11:47:29 AM
I Don think it has to be "a different state". IIRC, the constitutional language is that at least one of the two shall be "not from" the state.
Ok, I looked it up:
"The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. (https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27#toc-amendment-xii)"

So it doesn't matter where, just not California. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 11:49:07 AM
Cheney changed his residency to be VP with Bush back in the day.
He did and that will obviously be cited as precedent but this case is a bit more complicated because:

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:51:35 AM
Yeah the time factor could be a barrier, but I think the point is moot.  Harris would need to pick someone from the midwest or maybe North Carolina.

It would be "fun" if the President and VP ended up from different parties.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 11:53:34 AM
It would be "fun" if the President and VP ended up from different parties.
If I worked for the Secret Service, I wouldn't think so.

I think it would be a massive security risk.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 11:55:32 AM
They'd likely never be in the same building.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2024, 12:06:36 PM
Yeah the time factor could be a barrier, but I think the point is moot.  Harris would need to pick someone from the midwest or maybe North Carolina.
another swing state
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 08, 2024, 12:20:48 PM
As long as Biden has a pulse he'll continue to be useful to those who are actually running the country. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 12:21:58 PM
Van Jones: Democrats ‘running Kamala Harris for president one way or the other’ (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4759718-van-jones-democrats-running-kamala-harris-for-president-one-way-or-the-other/)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 12:22:31 PM
As long as Biden has a pulse he'll continue to be useful to those who are actually running the country.
Not if he loses the election.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 12:31:10 PM
Biden blasts ‘elites’ urging him to exit race in surprise interview (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/biden-blasts-elites-urging-him-to-exit-race-in-surprise-interview.html)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 08, 2024, 12:33:44 PM
Yeah the time factor could be a barrier, but I think the point is moot.  Harris would need to pick someone from the midwest or maybe North Carolina.

It would be "fun" if the President and VP ended up from different parties.
And I’m guessing the pool would be limited by people who don’t want to take an L to limit their political future.

I don’t think the outgoing NC Governor has enough juice to swing the state. But he is termed out, and a VP run could set him up for a Senate run down the line.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 08, 2024, 12:35:14 PM
Biden has never had the metal capacity to be president.  VP Harris should invoke the 25th Amendment.  But she's so well liked she'd likely lose the vote by the Cabinet unless the Democrat elite support her which I doubt they will.  Quite the shit show brewing.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 12:38:37 PM
I think politically to invoke 25A would be disastrous, and unsuccessful.  It's not a viable option at this point.  The only realistic option is for someone to really talk Joe out of running, and that is starting to look unlikely.  Now, he will be under a microscope from here for any further, um, failings, his gaffes and mumbles will be covered by the media as well as his "lack of visibility", if that happens.  

I don't think he's going to drop out at this point.  He might have to in a couple weeks, or months, if he again looks so infirm that most Democrats turn on him.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 08, 2024, 12:50:20 PM
the Dems that want him out should schedule some live press conferences
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 01:11:22 PM
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden Polls | RealClearPolling (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden)

Bigger swing than I expected post debate.  And these are of course national polls which favor the Democrat because states like CA and NY are included but don't really "count".
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 01:14:53 PM
It's funny, I posted that RCP link above on FB and it was immediately removed with a warning to me.  It's just "information" so far as I can see.

I almost never have had this happen on FB, maybe once before.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 01:21:59 PM
It's funny, I posted that RCP link above on FB and it was immediately removed with a warning to me.  It's just "information" so far as I can see.

I almost never have had this happen on FB, maybe once before.
So, they are still carrying the DNC's water.

I just re-joined Book Face for the first time since January 2021. I might have to bail again.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 01:35:15 PM
As long as Biden has a pulse he'll continue to be useful to those who are actually running the country.
bingo. and to be fair, it's not just Biden, it's been most of them. they have donors and military/intelligence/defense establishment they are beholden to. very few of them actually run the entire show. 

JFK tried taking on the CIA and the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned about on his way out of office- and he got his brains blown out of his f**cking skull for it. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 08, 2024, 01:39:02 PM
So, they are still carrying the DNC's water.

I just re-joined Book Face for the first time since January 2021. I might have to bail again.
Facebook is a cesspool of boomers arguing over sh*t that none of them know jacksh*t about in the first place. It's ridiculous. And kind of insane because it was started by some nerdy virgin in his dorm room in college and was designed for young people to connect and chat- now it's morphed into some weird shit where grandpas, grandmas, great uncles, and great aunts argue over political bullsh*t, like everything else in this country, boomers f**cking destroyed it. gotta love them. worst. generation. ever.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 01:40:03 PM
So, they are still carrying the DNC's water.

I just re-joined Book Face for the first time since January 2021. I might have to bail again.
I think it tripped some algorithm, I don't have any clue why.  I see rather vitriolic posts about Biden all the time.  They offered an appeal mechanism, not that I especially care.  I find FB "entertaining".  

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 08, 2024, 04:08:43 PM
Parkinson's expert visited White House, met with Biden's doctor (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/biden-blasts-elites-urging-him-to-exit-race-in-surprise-interview.html)

Parkinson's disease is often accompanied by these additional problems, which may be treatable:

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 08, 2024, 04:37:30 PM
Trying to save his seat and power.

Sen. Jon Tester says President Joe Biden must 'prove' he's 'up to the job' (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4760277-tester-says-biden-must-prove-hes-up-to-the-job/)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 08, 2024, 05:01:58 PM
Parkinson's expert visited White House, met with Biden's doctor (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/biden-blasts-elites-urging-him-to-exit-race-in-surprise-interview.html)

Parkinson's disease is often accompanied by these additional problems, which may be treatable:
  • Thinking difficulties. You may experience cognitive problems, such as dementia, and thinking difficulties. These usually occur in the later stages of Parkinson's disease. Such cognitive problems aren't usually helped by medicines.
  • Depression and emotional changes. You may experience depression, sometimes in the very early stages. Receiving treatment for depression can make it easier to handle the other challenges of Parkinson's disease.
    You also may experience other emotional changes, such as fear, anxiety or loss of motivation. Your health care team may give you medicine to treat these symptoms.
  • Swallowing problems. You may develop difficulties with swallowing as your condition progresses. Saliva may accumulate in your mouth due to slowed swallowing, leading to drooling.
  • Chewing and eating problems. Late-stage Parkinson's disease affects the muscles in the mouth, making chewing difficult. This can lead to choking and poor nutrition.
  • Sleep problems and sleep disorders. People with Parkinson's disease often have sleep problems, including waking up frequently throughout the night, waking up early or falling asleep during the day.
    People also may experience rapid eye movement sleep behavior disorder, which involves acting out dreams. Medicines may improve your sleep.
  • Bladder problems. Parkinson's disease may cause bladder problems, including being unable to control urine or having difficulty in urinating.
  • Constipation. Many people with Parkinson's disease develop constipation, mainly due to a slower digestive tract.
As someone with a grandmother who suffered from Parkinson's--lived to 93(!) though--I wouldn't say that Biden shows signs there. 

I think it is a more standard old-age cognitive decline. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 08, 2024, 05:08:39 PM
Parkinson's expert visited White House, met with Biden's doctor (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/biden-blasts-elites-urging-him-to-exit-race-in-surprise-interview.html)
I think the fact that this news got out is more interesting than the news itself.  From what I know about dementia*, it really doesn't matter all that much whether it is caused by Parkinson's, or is Alzheimer's, or is just plain dementia.  In any case the prognosis isn't good and the deterioration will continue.  

The fact that this news was made public (by NBC no less) tells me that Biden is done and the Democrats will have a new nominee within a matter of weeks.  I could be wrong of course but that is my take.  

*What I know about dementia:
My dad had it so I've "been there".  When he was first diagnosed the Doctors didn't really seem to care much whether or not it was Alzheimer's specifically because the treatment and prognosis were more-or-less the same either way.  I've known a few people who had Parkinson's but my knowledge there is more limited because I'm talking about people I knew not someone whose healthcare was basically my responsibility.  

The conversation that has to be going on right now is that dementia (Parkinson's too) gets worse not better.  There isn't a cure.  If Biden is having lapses this frequently already then he can't possibly serve as President until January 20, 2029.  That puts Harris front-and-center even if she isn't technically elevated to the top of the ticket.  At that point they might as well elevate her and hope for the best.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 08, 2024, 05:16:51 PM
As someone with a grandmother who suffered from Parkinson's--lived to 93(!) though--I wouldn't say that Biden shows signs there.

I think it is a more standard old-age cognitive decline.
My dad died from Parkinson’s.   It is horrible.  

it hits everybody a little bit differently. I see some similarities for sure but I am no doctor so I have no idea.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 09:22:45 AM
Joe Biden fundraising signs of weakness appear post debate (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/joe-biden-fundraising-debate.html)

Presuming this is true, this is one thing that would "influence" a lot of voices in the Democratic circle, and hard.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 09, 2024, 09:41:33 AM
Joe Biden fundraising signs of weakness appear post debate (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/08/joe-biden-fundraising-debate.html)

Presuming this is true, this is one thing that would "influence" a lot of voices in the Democratic circle, and hard.
Abigail Disney the heiress to the Walt Disney family fortune came out and said she's not donating any more money to the Democratic party until Joe drops out. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 09, 2024, 09:42:55 AM
Trying to save his seat and power.

Sen. Jon Tester says President Joe Biden must 'prove' he's 'up to the job' (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4760277-tester-says-biden-must-prove-hes-up-to-the-job/)
Joe don't have to prove sh*t. He's the nominee unless he decides to drop out. He ain't dropping out. They'll have to invoke the 25th amendment to get rid of him. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 09:45:50 AM
"They" won't invoke 25A, and even if they did and it "worked", he'd still be the nominee without further actions.

I think folks are waiting and talking and worrying about options and looking at what is changing like polls and money.  The money thing is real, apparently, and not good.  Money talks.  End of the month remains my guess.

If Joe has any more even slight stumbles ...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 09:46:16 AM
The 25th would be a challenge. I don't think they could pull it off.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 09:52:09 AM
It would be political suicide even to try for the Cabinet members and KH.  They won't want to risk that.  And it doesn't really solve "the problem", which is the nomination.

Now, maybe if Joe has more really bad days in public, they might be forced to attempt it, but it would have to be several really bad public days.  The story to date is "Everything is fine here."

There would first be multiple high level efforts to get him to retire and resign quietly.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 09:56:53 AM
This is not good.

Biden didn't show up for an early evening meeting with the German chancellor because he had to go to bed: report (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-didn-t-show-up-for-an-early-evening-meeting-with-the-german-chancellor-because-he-had-to-go-to-bed-report/ar-BB1pFJzf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=7da9ddb710164dd890ac1904b6cbe03f&ei=12)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 09, 2024, 10:06:53 AM
The fact that this news was made public (by NBC no less) tells me that Biden is done and the Democrats will have a new nominee within a matter of weeks.  I could be wrong of course but that is my take. 
it tells me that the Democrats are panicking now and know they can't use their minions in the dying legacy corporate media to gaslight and propagandize voters into believing the obvious lies about Biden's excellent mental acuity. Sorry Mornin' Joe...."Biden is beyond cogent, this is the best version of Biden ever, and F YOU IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH" :043:

The Dems are in full on panic mode because they realize the jig is up now and they no longer can use their DNC operative hacks in the legacy corporate media to propagandize for them. And make no mistake the legacy corporate media is 90+% made up of DNC operative hacks. They no longer are able pull the wool over the eyes of the sheeple. They can't convince anyone anymore that Biden's brain hasn't melted into the soft serve ice cream he loves because: people have eyes and ears.

They are leaking "scoops" now and actually covering this issue in the way it should've been covered when he was running in 2020 in order to pressure Biden to drop out. Newsflash: Biden isn't dropping out. His entire adult life has been spent in Washington DC and all about amassing power and influence and trying to ascend to the throne. He's never known anything else but being a politician really. And now that he's achieved and reached his life's goal and ascended to throne- you think he's really going to just give that up? He ain't just going to give that up. Not happening. This is one of the most narcissistic, wholly corrupt, morally bankrupt, lying scumbag piece of sh*t human beings ever to exist in American politics. Ain't happening.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 10:07:17 AM
just pull all the $$ from the campaign

no more ads

let Trump have it
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 10:09:57 AM
apparently, Joe can't be bought.

I assume someone with real money has offered to pay him to go away
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 10:10:04 AM
This reminds me a bit of a totally unrelated story.  Where I worked for a while was on the Greater Miami River and across from a bridge built in around 1910.  At one point, the bridge was to be replaced.  So, at lunch, a bunch of us would gather to observe, and then opine about what was happening.  None of us were engineers, but nearly all "highly educated", and we'd say "Oh, they are doing X", another would say "I think it's Y".  I think we were all wrong, in every case.  (When the bridge footings were in place and they started in the superstructure, it was obvious what was being done.)

My learning was "experts" in one field can be woefully ignorant in another.  And I learned a little about how bridges are built.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 10:12:23 AM
I don't think you need to be a bridge engineer to know that Biden would lose the election
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 10:19:45 AM
It would be political suicide even to try for the Cabinet members and KH.  They won't want to risk that.  And it doesn't really solve "the problem", which is the nomination.

Now, maybe if Joe has more really bad days in public, they might be forced to attempt it, but it would have to be several really bad public days.  The story to date is "Everything is fine here."

There would first be multiple high level efforts to get him to retire and resign quietly. 
Since it has been brought up repeatedly, the 25th Amendment has four Sections:

Section 1 clarifies that the VP takes over in the event of the death, resignation, or removal of the President. 

Section 2 lays out the procedure for filling a vacancy in the office of VP. The procedure is that POTUS nominates and BOTH Houses of Congress confirm by simple majority. IIRC, before the 25th Amendment the Senate alone filled vacancies in the office of VP. Gerald Ford became President when Nixon resigned. He had previously become VP under this section.

Section 3 lays out a voluntary procedure for temporarily transferring power to VP. This section has been invoked multiple times by Presidents starting with Bush II for things such as surgeries requiring general anesthesia. 

Section 4 is the procedure for an involuntary transfer of Presidential power but note that this section transfers the powers, NOT the office. Ie, if it were invoked Harris would become "Acting President", NOT President. That may seem semantic and in a way it is but it matters because the invoking Section 4 would NOT create a vacancy in the office of VP. Biden would continue to be the President and Harris would continue to be VP, while acting as President. 

Here is the text of Section 4:
Section 4
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
     
Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 10:24:16 AM
This is not good.

Biden didn't show up for an early evening meeting with the German chancellor because he had to go to bed: report (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-didn-t-show-up-for-an-early-evening-meeting-with-the-german-chancellor-because-he-had-to-go-to-bed-report/ar-BB1pFJzf?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=7da9ddb710164dd890ac1904b6cbe03f&ei=12)
My guess is this was due to a phenomenon called sundowners. It is typical for those with dementia to have lapses in the evening. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 10:37:06 AM
My guess is this was due to a phenomenon called sundowners. It is typical for those with dementia to have lapses in the evening.
Yes, it is.

The German Chancellor apparently did not have jet lag.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 11:05:17 AM
Jon Stewart criticizes Biden's team over debate performance spin (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4761626-jon-stewart-biden-debate/)

Now to my mind, the debate was a shocking display of cognitive difficulty recognizable to, unfortunately, anybody who’s dealt with aging parents, and it’s a hard watch,” he added, before noting that some viewers felt Biden’s performance “was not as noteworthy as Biden’s opponent in the debate.”
He then played clips of Democrats who pointed out that former President Trump made numerous false claims during the debate. He then noted that there was difference between Trump’s and Biden’s performances.
“I will tell you the difference. The difference is Trump delivered at the debate to expectation. We expect him to be f—— crazy. But Biden’s performance and inability to articulate at times was stunning. Like I could not believe what I was watching,” he said.
He then said things “got worse” after the debate, pointing to some excuses Democrats, Biden and the White House made for the president’s rocky debate showing. This included White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre explaining that Biden had a cold  (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4756812-biden-doctor-verbal-check-in/)that night and was jet-lagged from his recent foreign travel.
“He’d been home for almost two weeks. He was jet-lagged? How big is that f—— jet? The point is, for a campaign based on honesty and decency, the spin about the debate appears to be blatant bulls—. And the redemption tour hasn’t gotten that much better,” Stewart said.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 11:07:42 AM
But Biden’s performance and inability to articulate at times was stunning. Like I could not believe what I was watching,” he said.

Apparently, Jon hasn't been paying attention
I fully expected Biden's performance.  Actually thinking it might be worse
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 11:10:52 AM
I fully expected Biden's performance.  Actually thinking it might be worse
I didn't. I didn't think his handlers would let him on that stage if this was even a remote possibility. 

I have to think that everyone around him thought that this would be his triumphant way to prove he wasn't "Sleepy Joe". That was the entire point of getting him on a stage with Trump. Show the world that he's still got it, and immediately dispel the "he's too old and he's losing it" rhetoric that has been thrown around on the right for months. 

But he's too old and he's losing it. And the debate, rather than dispel that, proved it. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 11:25:42 AM
everyone around him should have known

delusional
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 11:27:54 AM
Section 4 is the procedure for an involuntary transfer of Presidential power but note that this section transfers the powers, NOT the office. Ie, if it were invoked Harris would become "Acting President", NOT President. That may seem semantic and in a way it is but it matters because the invoking Section 4 would NOT create a vacancy in the office of VP. Biden would continue to be the President and Harris would continue to be VP, while acting as President.
I think the drafters of this Amendment made a mistake here but I can understand because I'm not sure that my proposed solution is the best way to fix it.  

According to the Succession Act of 1947 the Order of Succession to the Powers of the President (not the Presidency per se, just "acting"), the order is:

Hypothetical:

By my reading of the 25 Amendment and the Presidential Succession Act, in this scenario President Biden would remain "President" but the Republican Speaker of the HoR would assume the duties of the Office.  Those duties would include nominating members of the Cabinet so, theoretically, the Republican Speaker of the HoR could replace all the Democrats in the Cabinet.  

IMHO, the Speaker of the HoR and the President Pro Tempore of the Senate should be removed from the order of succession because their presence on the list especially at such high spots creates the possibility of a Presidential asassination or incapacitation resulting in a change in partisan control of the Presidency.  I think that this should be avoided so as to minimize the motivations to assassinate the President and to remove potential partisan motivations from the motivations of the Cabinet Members and Congress Members decisions on incapacitation.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 11:36:10 AM
I didn't. I didn't think his handlers would let him on that stage if this was even a remote possibility.

I have to think that everyone around him thought that this would be his triumphant way to prove he wasn't "Sleepy Joe". That was the entire point of getting him on a stage with Trump. Show the world that he's still got it, and immediately dispel the "he's too old and he's losing it" rhetoric that has been thrown around on the right for months.

But he's too old and he's losing it. And the debate, rather than dispel that, proved it.
This thought is what I keep coming back to.  

Politically, the people around him *should* have ducked the debate.  I'm honestly not sure that it would have cost them much.  The nation is so polarized that the people on his side certainly wouldn't have held it against him.  Look, if Biden had ducked the debate, the is literally zero chance that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) would have said "That is it, I'm voting for Trump".  It *MIGHT* have hurt a little with a few swing voters but I'm not even sure about that.  We don't need to see a debate to know what the candidates are.  

My theory (I introduced this WAY upthread) is that the people around him simply HAD to know that this was a distinct possibility and they put him up there as a means to get him off the ticket.  

As I see it, the only other possibility is that they rolled the dice.  Dementia patients typically have lapses.  Maybe they just figured they'd stick him up there and HOPE that he didn't happen to have any lapses on that particular evening.  

When my dad was at something similar to the stage of dementia that it appears Biden is at right now, he *DID* sometimes have a good evening where we'd talk with him and everything was normal.  The thing is, from my experience, when my dad was having lapses as frequently as it appears that Biden is now, the chances of him having a full 90 minutes of lucidity were REALLY low so if that is what they did, it was one heck of a gamble.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 11:44:02 AM
I didn't. I didn't think his handlers would let him on that stage if this was even a remote possibility.
To clarify here, I think they'd have had to roll the dice if it was a "remote possibility".  Ie, if Biden was in the VERY early stages of dementia where these lapses are sometimes a week apart and you were a Biden advisor, I think you'd do the debate and hope for the best.  You *MIGHT* want to try to negotiate to have it on a Saturday so that you could do it earlier in the day to minimize the risk but other than that I don't think you necessarily accept the potential political damage from ducking the debate if this is only a "remote possibility".  

At this point it appears NOT to have been a remote possibility because there have been pretty much daily lapses since.  Jon Stewart showed some in this montage quoted by @Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) :
Jon Stewart criticizes Biden's team over debate performance spin (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4761626-jon-stewart-biden-debate/)
If he is having publicly visible lapses then this can't have been a "remote possibility".  That brings me back to my theory that they *MUST* have known either:

Then that brings me back to my theory.  If they knew, then they did this for a reason and the only reason I can think of is to force the issue and get him off the ticket.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 11:45:48 AM
Jon Stewart criticizes Biden's team over debate performance spin (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4761626-jon-stewart-biden-debate/)
I watched this on YouTube last night and I thought it was sad but hilarious.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 12:23:23 PM
Is there a functional difference between "Acting President" and President, aside from perhaps there being no Vice President?

This Amendment was poorly written, in my  view, as is the case with many of them.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 12:42:51 PM
Is there a functional difference between "Acting President" and President, aside from perhaps there being no Vice President?

This Amendment was poorly written, in my  view, as is the case with many of them.
If any of the lawyers on here want to chime in they may have a better take than mine but . . .

I think that on a day-to-day basis there is no difference.  The Amendment stipulates that the VP assumes "the powers and duties of the office".  On a day-to-day basis, that is equivalent to being the President.  There are no limitations.  

AFAIK, the only difference then is that if Harris becomes "acting President" she can't appoint a replacement VP.  I see this as problematic because nobody else can either because technically the office of VP wouldn't be vacant.  She'd still be the VP.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 09, 2024, 01:08:39 PM
If any of the lawyers on here want to chime in they may have a better take than mine but . . .

I think that on a day-to-day basis there is no difference.  The Amendment stipulates that the VP assumes "the powers and duties of the office".  On a day-to-day basis, that is equivalent to being the President.  There are no limitations. 

AFAIK, the only difference then is that if Harris becomes "acting President" she can't appoint a replacement VP.  I see this as problematic because nobody else can either because technically the office of VP wouldn't be vacant.  She'd still be the VP. 
Yeah I think that is right - I understand part of the motivation for that section was the Kennedy assassination and the idea of what if Kennedy survived as a vegetable.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 01:37:24 PM
The Twenty-Fifth Amendment (https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv) was an effort to resolve some of the continuing issues revolving about the office of the President; that is, what happens upon the death, removal, or resignation of the President and what is the course to follow if for some reason the President becomes disabled to such a degree that he cannot fulfill his responsibilities. The practice had been well established that the Vice President became President upon the death of the President, as had happened eight times in our history. Presumably, the Vice President would become President upon the removal of the President from office. Whether the Vice President would become acting President when the President became unable to carry on and whether the President could resume his office upon his recovering his ability were two questions that had divided scholars and experts. Also, seven Vice Presidents had died in office and one had resigned, so that for some 20% of United States history there had been no Vice President to step up. But the seemingly most insoluble problem was that of presidential inability—James Garfield’s lying in a coma for eighty days before succumbing to the effects of an assassin’s bullet, Woodrow Wilson an invalid for the last eighteen months of his term, the result of a stroke—with its unanswered questions: who was to determine the existence of an inability, how was the matter to be handled if the President sought to continue, in what manner should the Vice President act, would he be acting President or President, what was to happen if the President recovered. Congress finally proposed this Amendment to the states in the aftermath of President John F. Kennedy’s assassination, with the Vice Presidency vacant and a President who had previously had a heart attack.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 02:23:26 PM
House Democrats back Joe Biden after meeting (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4762148-democrats-back-biden-debate/)

If this is accurate, Biden appears to have weathered the storm so far as inside his party.  If Trump could magically start sounding rather sane and boring and uneventful, he'd have it nearly in the bag.  Coachspeak.

But, he won't.

But, if Biden has another public "issue", the Democrats will be in a deeper bind.  And if Biden indeed IS having cognition issues, he WILL have another issue.  And trying to keep him out of view won't work for long.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 02:26:33 PM
That September debate is not going to happen as scheduled - especially not at 9PM.

It will either be set for 3PM, or not happen at all.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 02:27:12 PM
House Democrats back Joe Biden after meeting (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4762148-democrats-back-biden-debate/)

If this is accurate, Biden appears to have weathered the storm so far as inside his party.  If Trump could magically start sounding rather sane and boring and uneventful, he'd have it nearly in the bag.  Coachspeak.

But, he won't.

But, if Biden has another public "issue", the Democrats will be in a deeper bind.  And if Biden indeed IS having cognition issues, he WILL have another issue.  And trying to keep him out of view won't work for long.
This is not a thread about Donald Trump, but he's been very quiet lately.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 02:31:46 PM
That September debate is not going to happen as scheduled - especially not at 9PM.

It will either be set for 3PM, or not happen at all.
The hole the Biden campaign is in is that the second debate MUST happen or it's a PR victory for Trump. The entire country saw [and/or talked about] the mess that Biden was in the first debate. If he ducks out of the second debate, what possible spin can there be other than he's afraid to be exposed, AGAIN, on that stage. 

If Biden remains in the race, he MUST debate, and he MUST do well, or he might lose in a fashion resembling Mondale in '84.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 02:33:04 PM
Yeah I think that is right - I understand part of the motivation for that section was the Kennedy assassination and the idea of what if Kennedy survived as a vegetable.
So, that brings me back to my hypothetical and this isn't a partisan thing, it could apply either way suppose either:

Hypothetical version 1 (already set out upthread):
Hypothetical version 2 (switching parties just to clearly demonstrate that this could go either way):

If our reading of this is right, then either scenario above would result in the Speaker of the HoR assuming the powers and duties of the office of President and in both of those scenarios the Speaker of the HoR would be from the other party.  

Either of these would cause a partisan shift in control of the "powers and duties" of the office of President.  In my opinion this outcome should be avoided for several reasons:

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 02:34:44 PM
The hole the Biden campaign is in is that the second debate MUST happen or it's a PR victory for Trump. The entire country saw [and/or talked about] the mess that Biden was in the first debate. If he ducks out of the second debate, what possible spin can there be other than he's afraid to be exposed, AGAIN, on that stage.

If Biden remains in the race, he MUST debate, and he MUST do well, or he might lose in a fashion resembling Mondale in '84. 
I agree.  I think (per discussion upthread) that he could have gotten away with ducking the debates completely but after what happened in the first one, not showing up for the second one would be a catastrophe.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 02:36:17 PM
I agree.  I think (per discussion upthread) that he could have gotten away with ducking the debates completely but after what happened in the first one, not showing up for the second one would be a catastrophe
It is that either way.

It's not gonna happen at 9PM. No way "they" allow that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 02:40:42 PM
It is that either way.

It's not gonna happen at 9PM. No way "they" allow that.
It's currently a catastrophe. If he debates again, he has the "chance" to salvage it. If he can show up and talk like a coherent person. 

The bar is low, but I think he'll still trip over it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 02:44:01 PM
This is not a thread about Donald Trump, but he's been very quiet lately.
This is a REALLY interesting point.  

I also find it interesting that your comment was in response to this:
If Trump could magically start sounding rather sane and boring and uneventful, he'd have it nearly in the bag.  Coachspeak.

But, he won't.
Emphasis added.  

@Cincydawg (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=870) may be right but I'll come right out and say what @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) hinted at:  He has so far.  

There is an old saying in Politics that says "When your opponent is hanging themselves, don't get in the way."  Trump has made a multitude of political errors and it would seem more like him to come out swinging at Biden in this situation but Badge makes a good point.  He has been almost eerily quiet.  

In the realm of political strategy, Trump's relative silence is ABSOLUTELY the best course of action.  Right now the country (see this board for example) is discussing Biden's fitness and mental capacity.  Trump wins from that conversation.  Anything he does or says could distract from that so the best course for him right now is to STFU and he surprisingly has.  

The other risk for Trump at this point is that coming out swinging at Biden NOW just looks brutish.  Lots of us have had elderly parents or other relatives that went through something similar to what it appears that Biden is going through.  Both Cenk Ungar and Jon Stewart referenced that fact.  I think those of us that have been there wouldn't want someone with the mental issues that we saw our loved ones go through to be POTUS, but we also wouldn't want some bully to humiliate them so for Trump to go on the attack would likely generate a backlash of sympathy for Biden.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 02:44:14 PM
KEY BATTLES

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 02:45:40 PM
It is that either way.

It's not gonna happen at 9PM. No way "they" allow that.
I think they are kinda stuck.  

At this point Biden NEEDS the second debate a whole lot more than Trump does so there is no reason for Trump's camp to allow any leeway.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 02:49:34 PM
When the next presidential debate of 2024 takes place and who will moderate it - CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/when-is-second-presidential-debate-2024/)


President Biden and former President Donald Trump have agreed to one more showdown on the debate stage before the 2024 presidential election (https://www.cbsnews.com/feature/election-2024/)
The September rematch will come after both candidates formally accept their party's nomination. The first debate (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/first-presidential-debate-2024-trump-biden/), hosted Thursday by CNN in Atlanta, came unusually early (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-biden-2024-first-debate-what-to-know/) in the election season given that both are still the presumptive nominees before their party conventions. 
When is the second presidential debate?



Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 02:50:12 PM
Imagine the Biden folks say it has to be earlier because our guy needs his sleep .....
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 09, 2024, 03:16:56 PM
There is an old saying in Politics that says "When your opponent is hanging themselves, don't get in the way."  Trump has made a multitude of political errors and it would seem more like him to come out swinging at Biden in this situation but Badge makes a good point.  He has been almost eerily quiet. 

In the realm of political strategy, Trump's relative silence is ABSOLUTELY the best course of action.  Right now the country (see this board for example) is discussing Biden's fitness and mental capacity.  Trump wins from that conversation.  Anything he does or says could distract from that so the best course for him right now is to STFU and he surprisingly has. 

The other risk for Trump at this point is that coming out swinging at Biden NOW just looks brutish.  Lots of us have had elderly parents or other relatives that went through something similar to what it appears that Biden is going through.  Both Cenk Ungar and Jon Stewart referenced that fact.  I think those of us that have been there wouldn't want someone with the mental issues that we saw our loved ones go through to be POTUS, but we also wouldn't want some bully to humiliate them so for Trump to go on the attack would likely generate a backlash of sympathy for Biden. 
Exactly. Trump has nothing to gain from attacking Biden right now.

Think of the Democrats like a group of siblings. Siblings can be absolutely SAVAGE to each other. But when someone from outside tries to mess with one of them, they close ranks and fight the outside threat. 

Right now Biden is being attacked by fellow Democrats. If Trump gets involved, the Democrats might start fighting against Trump instead of attacking Biden. And then it makes Trump look like [even more of] a bully. Which is a card Trump WILL eventually play IMHO, but there's no need to play it right now.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 03:37:03 PM
KEY BATTLES
  • 2024 Arizona: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/arizona/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+5.4
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/arizona/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 Georgia: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/georgia/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+4.0
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/georgia/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 Michigan: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/michigan/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+0.6
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/michigan/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 Nevada: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/nevada/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+5.2
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/nevada/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 North Carolina: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/north-carolina/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+5.8
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/north-carolina/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 Pennsylvania: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+5.3
     (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/pennsylvania/trump-vs-biden)
  • 2024 Wisconsin: Trump vs Biden (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/wisconsin/trump-vs-biden)
    Trump+2.2
Applying your polling numbers to Nate Silver's 538 projection (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/):

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 03:41:41 PM
Exactly. Trump has nothing to gain from attacking Biden right now.

this has never stopped him before

perhaps he is listening to his handlers?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 09, 2024, 03:48:38 PM
this has never stopped him before

perhaps he is listening to his handlers kids?
Fixed.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 09, 2024, 03:55:54 PM
Applying your polling numbers to Nate Silver's 538 projection (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/):
  • NC would give Trump 235 EV's, your poll says he wins there by almost 6%
  • GA would give Trump 251 EV's, your poll says he wins there by 4%
  • AZ would give Trump 262 EV's, your poll says he wins there by over 5%
  • NV would give Trump 268 EV's, your poll says he wins there by over 5%
  • PA would give Trump 287 EV's (TIPPING POINT STATE), your poll says he wins there by over 5%
  • WI would give Trump 297 EV's, your poll says he wins there by over 2%
  • MI would give Trump 312 EV's, your poll says he wins a squeaker there
Some interesting points regarding polling:

First, Democrats have a LOT more EV's "baked in" so to speak.  Per 538's site:


This might keep Biden in the race for the simple reason that it is nearly impossible for him to fall completely out of striking distance.  Ie, if his mental issues continue to be publicly obvious and that causes an 8% national shift, Trump only assumes a 347-196 lead in projected EV's.  Even a 12% shift only gives Trump a 371-181 lead in projected EV's.  For comparison:

Those elections underlined had a bigger EV margin than what 538 projects Trump would get with an 8% shift and those in bold had a bigger EV margin than what 538 projects Trump would get with a 12% shift.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2024, 03:57:12 PM
Exactly. Trump has nothing to gain from attacking Biden right now.

Think of the Democrats like a group of siblings. Siblings can be absolutely SAVAGE to each other. But when someone from outside tries to mess with one of them, they close ranks and fight the outside threat.

Right now Biden is being attacked by fellow Democrats. If Trump gets involved, the Democrats might start fighting against Trump instead of attacking Biden. And then it makes Trump look like [even more of] a bully. Which is a card Trump WILL eventually play IMHO, but there's no need to play it right now.
Yup
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 09, 2024, 04:38:23 PM
Is Biden fit to be president right now? (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4760854-is-biden-fit-to-be-president-right-now/)

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 09, 2024, 08:05:55 PM
I put it at a 49% chance of a Trump/Trump ticket.  And he'll make some gross comment about having the hottest first lady and hottest VP candidate.  His daughter.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 09, 2024, 09:35:17 PM
well, it might be kinda gross for him to say it, but........

he wouldn't be lying this time
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2024, 07:51:42 AM
This is not a thread about Donald Trump, but he's been very quiet lately.
This did not age well.

He was very much on the attack last night at his rally in Doral.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2024, 07:53:11 AM
but, mostly attacking Kamala
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2024, 07:56:20 AM
I didn't watch the whole thing. 

I heard a lot of "sleepy Joe" and "crooked Joe" a golf challenge. He did mention Laffin' Kamala once or twice.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2024, 08:01:19 AM
from what I read he used kid gloves on Joe and went after the Dems trying to end Joe's campaign

and discord in the party

a little sympathy for Joe
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2024, 08:23:41 AM
I guess I'll have to read up on it. We only watched for 5, maybe 10 minutes.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 08:59:09 AM
This did not age well.

He was very much on the attack last night at his rally in Doral.
He says stuff at his rallies, but the media attention is MOSTLY on Joe, and DJT is letting that happen without going out with his own interviews for example.

The convention is very soon so that will change.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 10, 2024, 09:01:49 AM
This is not a thread about Donald Trump, but he's been very quiet lately.
One hand, I’ve already stated my thoughts on the place of any of these people here.

but if we’re diving down this road, the lack of discussion about the soon to be president strikes me as a sign that concerns about mental capacity are… a bit hollow. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 09:17:14 AM
From the NYT:


It's not his AGE, in my view, it's his mental acuity.




Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 10, 2024, 10:06:36 AM
Exactly. Trump has nothing to gain from attacking Biden right now.

Think of the Democrats like a group of siblings. Siblings can be absolutely SAVAGE to each other. But when someone from outside tries to mess with one of them, they close ranks and fight the outside threat.

Right now Biden is being attacked by fellow Democrats. If Trump gets involved, the Democrats might start fighting against Trump instead of attacking Biden. And then it makes Trump look like [even more of] a bully. Which is a card Trump WILL eventually play IMHO, but there's no need to play it right now.
You get a Yuengling - I just might write you in as The Keg Party Candidate


https://youtu.be/yaR5OnX-7VM
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 10:30:14 AM
Just got an NYT update that Pelosi said Biden should reconsider staying in the race.  She wouldn't say that without reading a lot of leave of tea.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 10, 2024, 10:57:11 AM
Pelosi should be in Prison....or HELL
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 11:01:37 AM
This looks like a train wreck in slow motion.

I think the internal pressure is only going to increase from here until he drops out, but doesn't resign.  He should give some speech that portrays himself as some great statesman dropping out for the good of the country, and the country will be in great hands with KH in charge, as opposed to that great opponent of democracy.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 10, 2024, 11:17:24 AM
I agree Dick Cheney should swing also
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 11:38:56 AM
Why Biden needs to take Trump out of his re-election effort (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-age-2024-policy-rcna160505)

Pretty damning.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 10, 2024, 11:43:31 AM
Why Biden needs to take Trump out of his re-election effort (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-age-2024-policy-rcna160505)

Pretty damning.
On the bright side, if you have no policy to enact, at least you're not gonna screw things up even worse.  I'd take that as a positive.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2024, 11:49:10 AM
Why Biden needs to take Trump out of his re-election effort (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-age-2024-policy-rcna160505)

Pretty damning.
OK. Good luck. This is just all talk. And "he's" not going to increase taxes on his wealthy donor base.

As for his future aims, buried on the second page were three bullet points explaining a handful of things he planned to do if he wins a second term: ban assault weapons; cap insulin costs; and increase taxes on billionaires. The rest of the note returned to talking about the fight against Trump and the importance of mobilizing for November.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 11:52:46 AM
As I note often, income tax rates usually mean almost nothing to billionaires.  This would be an increase in marginal income tax rates on higher income folks, and not really that much of an increase.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 10, 2024, 12:04:00 PM
If Biden was well ahead in the polls he could have just drooled and blew spit bubbles in the June 27th debate and the Democrats and MSM would be fine with it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 12:05:27 PM
George Stephanopoulos says Biden can't serve four more years (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/top-stories/latest/george-stephanopoulos-biden-interview-comment-regret-rcna161094)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 10, 2024, 12:08:04 PM
Why Biden needs to take Trump out of his re-election effort (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-age-2024-policy-rcna160505)

Pretty damning.
I've seen similarly horrible campaigns by R's so this is a political take not a partisan one:

I'm frankly astounded that Biden's campaign could be so mismanaged. By not setting out a policy vision of his own, he cedes that turf to Trump. A debate about Trump's vision is always going to favor Trump*. 

*This has NOTHING to do with Trump, it is simply politics. If the debate in any campaign is about "candidate X's" policy proposals, then "candidate X" is winning. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 12:08:38 PM
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden Polls | RealClearPolling (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden)

I posted this link on FB AGAIN and again it was removed.  I can't imagine why RCP is somehow banned on social media.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 12:09:50 PM
Those three apparent priorities are also absurd, none of them are prioties for most American voters.

I read somewhere it's the economy.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 10, 2024, 12:14:34 PM
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden Polls | RealClearPolling (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden)

I posted this link on FB AGAIN and again it was removed.  I can't imagine why RCP is somehow banned on social media.
I am surprised that you are surprised.    This has been standard operating procedure for a long time.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 12:16:58 PM
I am surprised that you are surprised.    This has been standard operating procedure for a long time. 
They don't allow RCP links to be posted?  Any notion as to why?  I don't view RCP as being somehow partisan, or spam, or anything else.

I post partisan links fairly often with no issue.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 12:18:38 PM
I just posted a link to f38 (ABC News now).  It went through.

Who Is Favored To Win The 2024 Presidential Election? | FiveThirtyEight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 10, 2024, 12:44:53 PM
They don't allow RCP links to be posted?  Any notion as to why?  I don't view RCP as being somehow partisan, or spam, or anything else.

I post partisan links fairly often with no issue.

Censorship.   
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 10, 2024, 01:42:18 PM
2024 General Election: Trump vs. Biden Polls | RealClearPolling (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden)

I posted this link on FB AGAIN and again it was removed.  I can't imagine why RCP is somehow banned on social media.
You just posted it on your feed?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 02:53:49 PM
I linked to RCP twice and it was deleted.  I then posted a link to 538 and it stood.  Then I commented in that thread with a link to RCP and it's still up.

Is RCP somehow considered conservative?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 02:55:24 PM
I have a higher number than usual of "friend requests" from "ladies" using the term loosely who are well endowed and scantily clad.

I bet it's because I am just that handsome.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 10, 2024, 03:43:56 PM
I linked to RCP twice and it was deleted.  I then posted a link to 538 and it stood.  Then I commented in that thread with a link to RCP and it's still up.

Is RCP somehow considered conservative?
I think a little, but I’ve read that some of the batch deletion stuff happens when a site is catching a bot attack or something.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 03:47:47 PM
I have linked to very conservatibe sites on FB with no problem, as well as VERY liberal sites.  This is a very rare case where a post gets deleted in my own experience.  I had one earlier, but it related to an historical point about Hitler, and I at least understood why their "AI" thingee would trigger.  (It was a very negative point about Hitler of course.)

I don't see any basis for thinking RCP is hard right wing, or off limits.  I did manage to slide the link in as a comment elsewhere.  I know these are algorithms, but this one struck me as odd.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 04:03:51 PM
Pelosi refuses to say she supports Biden as the Democratic nominee (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/10/pelosi-punts-biden-drop-out-rejects-critics-morning-joe.html)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 10, 2024, 04:13:31 PM
I actually feel sorry for this one.

(https://i.imgur.com/FUPwXaX.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 06:05:06 PM
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/10/biden-new-york-trouble-00167198
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 10, 2024, 07:14:47 PM
Pelosi refuses to say she supports Biden as the Democratic nominee (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/10/pelosi-punts-biden-drop-out-rejects-critics-morning-joe.html)
She's older than he is!  lol
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 07:15:32 PM
She also is a major figure. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 10, 2024, 07:31:08 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4765282-peter-welch-biden-withdraw-senate-democrat/

Avalanche. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 10, 2024, 09:37:53 PM
I have a higher number than usual of "friend requests" from "ladies" using the term loosely who are well endowed and scantily clad.

I bet it's because I am just that handsome.
Hmmm, I'm getting the same type of friend requests........
I bet it's NOT because I'm handsome.

But, I do have a sexy automobile
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 10, 2024, 10:55:30 PM
Yeah you do!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2024, 01:47:25 AM
I have a higher number than usual of "friend requests" from "ladies" using the term loosely who are well endowed and scantily clad.

I bet it's because I am just that handsome.
What baffles me about this is, does anyone fall for it?

I would think they'd get more requests accepted if they used more realistic women and dressed somewhat sexy but not outright slutty.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2024, 01:50:33 AM
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4765282-peter-welch-biden-withdraw-senate-democrat/

Avalanche.
It is interesting that a Senator from Vermont has come out. It isn't like he has any risk of losing to an R in Vermont. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 11, 2024, 06:56:55 AM
Biden won the Democrat's primary election and has 99% of the delegates.  The VP and Joe's cabinet are not going to invoke the 25th Amendment.  

The End.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 07:07:39 AM
He’d still be the nominee.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 11, 2024, 07:08:54 AM
What baffles me about this is, does anyone fall for it?

I would think they'd get more requests accepted if they used more realistic women and dressed somewhat sexy but not outright slutty.
Probably. 


I mean, it also might just be a way to sell an OnlyFans subscription. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 08:16:46 AM
Is Biden Less Available to the Media than Past Presidents? | AllSides (https://www.allsides.com/blog/biden-less-available-media-past-presidents)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 08:30:09 AM
I'm watching all of this with baited breath, as it were, a drip drip drip ... wondering when/if the dam will completely break.  (I gather that one being eroded survived?).

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 09:39:34 AM
What baffles me about this is, does anyone fall for it?

I would think they'd get more requests accepted if they used more realistic women and dressed somewhat sexy but not outright slutty.
apparently, you don't spend much time with the masses
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2024, 09:43:29 AM
Probably.

I mean, it also might just be a way to sell an OnlyFans subscription.
That makes sense and I hadn't thought of that.  I was thinking they were just trying to get "friends" for pushing out ads or whatever.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 09:45:21 AM
Imagine that the US President really is (mostly) a figurehead.  He gets briefed by folks where the decision is already made, by them.  The briefing is couched such that only one option appears viable.  He's not making decisions.  He appoints about 4,000 individuals to positions, 1200 of which require Senate "confirmation" (rubber stamp usually).

No President has any clue about more than maybe 30 of those.  They are made for him, some campaign donor gets Ambassador to Thailand etc.

In other words, his staff makes every decision for him, and perhaps lets him think he's doing something.  One could argue he would at least name most of his staff, probably.  But if this is the case, anyone could be President if they can smile for the camera and sound semicoherent most of the time.  If not, they keep him in the basement of the WH.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 11, 2024, 09:55:21 AM
I'm watching all of this with baited breath, as it were, a drip drip drip ... wondering when/if the dam will completely break.  (I gather that one being eroded survived?).
I think this is an area where Democratic media bias backfires and hurts Democrats.  

If a Republican President had been in the same situation this would have been a constant story from the 2020 election on.  That would have led to more pushing, more publicly visible lapses, and ultimately probably a seriously contested 2024 Republican Primary that the senile incumbent likely would have lost.  Problem solved.  

In this case most of the media treated Trump's "sleepy Joe" comments as completely baseless and never pushed the story so there weren't many publicly visible lapses, there wasn't a seriously contested 2024 Democratic Primary, and now they are kinda stuck.  

FWIW:
I don't think they are completely stuck and I think they will find a way around it but whatever that way is, will not necessarily be ideal.  I *think* they are kinda stuck with Kamala Harris because if they pass her over the Black Caucus will RIOT.  The problem is that Kamala Harris simply isn't very likable.  If they'd have had a contested primary she would likely have lost to a more likable candidate like Gavin Newsome.  Without a contested primary it will be a "bigwig decision" and the bigwigs can't pass over a minority so they're stuck.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 10:00:36 AM
Imagine that the US President really is (mostly) a figurehead.  He gets briefed by folks where the decision is already made, by them.  The briefing is couched such that only one option appears viable.  He's not making decisions.  He appoints about 4,000 individuals to positions, 1200 of which require Senate "confirmation" (rubber stamp usually).

No President has any clue about more than maybe 30 of those.  They are made for him, some campaign donor gets Ambassador to Thailand etc.

In other words, his staff makes every decision for him, and perhaps lets him think he's doing something.  One could argue he would at least name most of his staff, probably.  But if this is the case, anyone could be President if they can smile for the camera and sound semicoherent most of the time.  If not, they keep him in the basement of the WH.


this doesn't work for "The Donald"

and that's why many vote for him
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 11, 2024, 10:29:26 AM
bated not baited

It's an abbreviation for "abated."

Carry on.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 12:14:55 PM
Joe Biden press conference: President will face media scrutiny (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4764973-biden-press-conference-media-scrunity/)

If I were a leader of something significant, and I had a bad night, was off, didn't look sharp, etc., and these criticisms arose, but I really was fine, my old self, fit as a fiddle aside from having a cold and jet lag, they thing I'd do immediately is get back out there in public and show conclusively it was a one time thing.

Immediately.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 07:05:50 PM
6 thirty presser is late.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 11, 2024, 07:38:10 PM
Doesn't sound like he's trying to drop out
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 07:44:21 PM
Doesn’t sound good either.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 08:17:53 PM
6:30 eastern?

is it over?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 08:18:57 PM
Still going.  Joe sounds bad to me.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 08:21:24 PM
I turned it on
unfortunately
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 08:21:57 PM
Boy he rambles all over 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 08:24:47 PM
most politicians do
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 08:34:46 PM
Not this bad.  I think the torrent will happen tomorrow.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2024, 09:22:45 PM
Not this bad.  I think the torrent will happen tomorrow. 
It has been going on already.   It may get worse, fast.  But The Biden camp thinks they bought more time. 

Hand picked reporters asking softball questions- and he still bumbled and stumbled.  Kind of sad. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 09:29:04 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/obama-pelosi-biden-democrats-2024/index.html
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 11, 2024, 09:30:51 PM
Hard to say. Biden clearly isn't out of it and can answer questions and be with it. Which is worse - Biden stumbling over his words and sounding unconfident or Trump spouting utter nonsense in a really confident manner? Pick your senility.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2024, 09:35:03 PM
Hard to say. Biden clearly isn't out of it and can answer questions and be with it. Which is worse - Biden stumbling over his words and sounding unconfident or Trump spouting utter nonsense in a really confident manner? Pick your senility.
 It then it goes to policy.  Do you want this far left agenda to continue.   Vote will be based on that answer for people. 

also, you can’t compare Trump to Biden in acuity.  No comparison.  

Lastly- “Biden can answer questions “ is debatable 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 09:36:06 PM
true

Trump is going to be elected President
Biden isn't
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 11, 2024, 09:44:15 PM
It then it goes to policy.  Do you want this far left agenda to continue.  Vote will be based on that answer for people.

also, you can’t compare Trump to Biden in acuity.  No comparison. 

Lastly- “Biden can answer questions “ is debatable

Trump hasn't been able to answer basic questions about policy in five years. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2024, 09:45:32 PM
true

Trump is going to be elected President
Biden isn't
I don’t know about that.   Just look back at the Dem playbook over the last 8-10 years.   

You know some new “ scandal” ( see: hoax) will pop up.   
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 11, 2024, 09:49:55 PM
Trump can’t answer questions either in my view.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2024, 09:56:05 PM
Trump can’t answer questions either in my view. 
He can.  Very skillfully ( often with lies, embellishments or exaggeration).  He often chooses not to.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 11, 2024, 09:57:21 PM
Trump hasn't been able to answer basic questions about policy in five years.
Same with Biden.   That’s why they have kept him hidden away and did this whole cover up.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 11, 2024, 10:03:47 PM
most politicians don't answer questions directly very often

unless it's a softball lobbed over the middle of the plate
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 11, 2024, 10:17:46 PM
He can.  Very skillfully ( often with lies, embellishments or exaggeration).  He often chooses not to. 
Your lips are turning orange.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Hawkinole on July 12, 2024, 01:20:03 AM
Biden will step aside unless his dementia is too far advanced, and then we will know we are in some trouble, although ... at least he has hired good people that surround him. I think most of us want to retire, someday.
Supreme Court justices and politicians are drunk and addicted on power, including, but not limited to Trump, Alito, Clarence Thomas, Ruth Ginsburg, Charles Grassley, Mitch McConnell, and Diane Feinstein, all of whom overstayed their welcome, and as for the politicians, their constituents are a bit stupid because they vote to retain them.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 12, 2024, 06:52:31 AM
Biden's presser last night was about same as what we've been seeing for the last four years.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2024, 06:55:38 AM
I couldn't/can't watch i have to watch my BP. Same reason I din't watch Cleveland Sports teams (that much) anymore
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 08:08:30 AM
The presser won't quell the "insurrection" which has already grown.  It's a matter of time, and mechanism.  It could be very messy.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 08:10:47 AM
good TV
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 08:13:26 AM
Biden live updates: Democrats want new Trump opponent (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/11/biden-democrats-election-drop-out.html)

President Joe Biden (https://www.cnbc.com/joe-biden/) “needs to drop out” of the 2024 election race, a Biden campaign official told NBC News (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-reelection-insiders-no-path-debate-rcna161296), as a growing number of Democrats (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/10/pelosi-punts-biden-drop-out-rejects-critics-morning-joe.html) called for the president to exit the contest against former President Donald Trump (https://www.cnbc.com/donald-trump/).
“He will never recover from this,” one Biden campaign official said, according to NBC News.

NBC reported that several of Biden’s closest allies, among them three people involved in his reelection bid, now say they believe the president has no chance of winning the race. Those people also said there is a growing likelihood that if Biden remains as the party’s nominee, Democrats running for election to Congress and other offices will suffer.
“No one involved in the effort thinks he has a path,” a second Biden campaign staffer told NBC News.
NBC also confirmed a New York Times report that the campaign is polling voters on the question of Vice President Kamala Harris’ viability as the party’s presidential nominee in a head-to-head race against Trump.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 08:16:20 AM
I find it interesting how all of "this" surfaced rather suddenly among Democrats even though Republicans (and others) have been claiming this for years now.  The Hur interview has to be withheld, on very sketchy grounds, no doubt it would show the same things.

I imagine some folks will be annoyed at having this suppressed, being lied to, in effect.  Credibility is shot.  "They" have worked hard to keep this in the partisan noise background for nearly four years, and now it's out, they are out, and it's all astonishment for everyone seemingly.

There is zero way this man should be President NOW, much less four years from now.  It's dangerous.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 08:28:25 AM
Trump is also obviously dangerous

once again, it's a pick of the lesser of two terrible candidates
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MarqHusker on July 12, 2024, 08:42:25 AM
He's unconventional,  how is he dangerous.   Who did he send to jail, how exactly did he engage in lawfare the way this regime has.   Trump is the ultimate boogeyman and A hole.    Biden is a much bigger danger to me than a WWE type in Trump.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 08:44:06 AM
He's unconventional,  how is he dangerous.  Who did he send to jail, how exactly did he engage in lawfare the way this regime has.  Trump is the ultimate boogeyman and A hole.    Biden is a much bigger danger to me than a WWE type in Trump.
I don't think there its a serious way to say Biden engaged in "lawfare"
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 08:46:28 AM
I don't think Biden had anything to do with any charges filed against Trump.  His underlings may have had a hand in it.  Obviously the AG had a say in any Federal charges, and Jack Smith.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2024, 08:57:34 AM
I don't think there its a serious way to say Biden engaged in "lawfare"
This is just denial.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 09:41:04 AM
He's unconventional,  how is he dangerous.  Who did he send to jail, how exactly did he engage in lawfare the way this regime has.  Trump is the ultimate boogeyman and A hole.    Biden is a much bigger danger to me than a WWE type in Trump.
he did incite a riot at the capitol 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 09:58:54 AM
This is just denial.
It's not. There is no coherent argument that Biden is engaging in lawfare against Trump. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 10:06:36 AM
It's not. There is no coherent argument that Biden is engaging in lawfare against Trump.
There certainly are opinions this is the case.  Whether the argument is coherent or not depends on who is judging it.  

I read somewhere (meaning it may not be true) than some lawyer left the DoJ to assist Bragg in the Trump NY state prosecution, for example.  That case always struck me as contrived, not something "no reasonable prosecutor" would bring against someone not in the public eye.

The classified documents case is conflated with the fact Joe also had them in his garage.  But Joe is  a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 10:07:13 AM
he did incite a riot at the capitol
And tried to get his Veep to not accept the certification of the electoral vote.

And tried to send slates of fake electors to DC.

And tried to get the GA Sec of State to overturn Georgia's election results in his favor. 

And after nearly 4 years, still won't admit that he lost the election.

And when asked in the debate just a couple weeks ago, did not state that he'd accept the results of the next election if he loses. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 10:12:53 AM
There certainly are opinions this is the case.  Whether the argument is coherent or not depends on who is judging it. 

I read somewhere (meaning it may not be true) than some lawyer left the DoJ to assist Bragg in the Trump NY state prosecution, for example.  That case always struck me as contrived, not something "no reasonable prosecutor" would bring against someone not in the public eye.

The classified documents case is conflated with the fact Joe also had them in his garage.  But Joe is a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory,


Joe Biden's son was charged and convicted by the same DOJ, in fact on charges that many think wouldn't have been brought but for the fact that Biden is his last name. So any argument about that needs to include the Hunter Biden stuff, and because the lawfare accusations are nonsense you get conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 10:17:47 AM
Hunter's case is obviously quite separate, and probably was forced by public attention.  I think any regular citizen might have been charged and then pled the case out, which happened there too until a judge wouldn't accept the plea.  Hunter is also up on tax charges as well.  Some folks claimed some of them were delayed until the statute of limitations ran out, I don't know for sure if that is a fact.

It is obviously possible to have Hunter being charged AND having Trump being charged and the latter being a case of "lawfare", one does not intersect with the other.  And Trump was convicted in state court of course, a separate entity.

Anyway, to me, it's all OPINION with very few supportive facts for either OPINION.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 10:18:26 AM
Back on point, I sense nobody here thinks Joe has the mental capacity to be President.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 10:25:33 AM
Hunter's case is obviously quite separate, and probably was forced by public attention.  I think any regular citizen might have been charged and then pled the case out, which happened there too until a judge wouldn't accept the plea.  Hunter is also up on tax charges as well.  Some folks claimed some of them were delayed until the statute of limitations ran out, I don't know for sure if that is a fact.

It is obviously possible to have Hunter being charged AND having Trump being charged and the latter being a case of "lawfare", one does not intersect with the other.  And Trump was convicted in state court of course, a separate entity.

Anyway, to me, it's all OPINION with very few supportive facts for either OPINION.
Well, like I said, no coherent argument to be made.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 10:27:08 AM
Back on point, I sense nobody here thinks Joe has the mental capacity to be President. 
Honestly, BRAD's point is probably correct. He is old and stumbles over his words and rambles, but that isn't dementia. He seems to know what is going on and be generally coherent. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2024, 10:27:51 AM
Joe Biden's son was charged and convicted by the same DOJ, in fact on charges that many think wouldn't have been brought but for the fact that Biden is his last name. So any argument about that needs to include the Hunter Biden stuff, and because the lawfare accusations are nonsense you get conspiracy theories.
Now that the laptop has been admitted into a Federal Court as evidence, we all know it's real, including the 51 asshats who penned a letter calling it a Russian hoax (a recurring theme).

Let's see what else is on it. They'd have had it for almost 4 years. Let's go already. "10 percent for the big guy" is of great interest.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2024, 10:28:36 AM
Back on point, I sense nobody here thinks Joe has the mental capacity to be President. 

Are you sure?

(https://i.imgur.com/Hd3glUp.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 10:32:39 AM
Honestly, BRAD's point is probably correct. He is old and stumbles over his words and rambles, but that isn't dementia. He seems to know what is going on and be generally coherent.
Admittedly, I probably should have voted "maybe". My response was based on one debate, and I thought it might be an overreaction to a bad performance. More and more is coming out all the time, and it's looking worse and worse for Joe. 

That said, I stand by the other portion of what I said 100%. Even if he has the mental capacity to be President, he does NOT have the mental capacity to successfully run for President. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 12, 2024, 10:36:29 AM
The Biden campaign and administration are behind all of Trump's indictments.  All of them.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 12, 2024, 10:39:16 AM
MarqHusker usually knows what he's talkin bout
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 11:08:24 AM
The Biden campaign and administration are behind all of Trump's indictments.  All of them.
Joe Biden, too addle brained to be president, but can orchestrate criminal complaints in multiple jurisdictions at the same time
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 12, 2024, 11:10:59 AM
Joe Biden, too addle brained to be president, but can orchestrate criminal complaints in multiple jurisdictions at the same time
Biden's campaign and administration.

Get Trump, because we got nuttin' to run on.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 11:17:12 AM
Joe Biden, too addle brained to be president, but can orchestrate criminal complaints in multiple jurisdictions at the same time
Biden is addle-brained and nobody thinks he's master-minding anything behind the scenes.  Or in front of them.

But his handlers, cronies, lackeys, hangers-on, administration, campaigners-- sure, they have the capacity to do it.  And the motive.

I'm not saying they ARE doing it, but relying on the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy doesn't really support your stance.


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 11:21:41 AM
Biden is addle-brained and nobody thinks he's master-minding anything behind the scenes.  Or in front of them.

But his handlers, cronies, lackeys, hangers-on, administration, campaigners-- sure, they have the capacity to do it.  And the motive.

I'm not saying they ARE doing it, but relying on the logical fallacy of a false dichotomy doesn't really support your stance.
But that's just putting everyone who does something against Trump in some big bucket and calling it Biden. Lots of people hate Trump who don't have any connection to Biden whatsoever. Like I said, you quickly get into conspiracy theories with this stuff because that's the only way to hold it altogether.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 11:25:20 AM
But that's just putting everyone who does something against Trump in some big bucket and calling it Biden. Lots of people hate Trump who don't have any connection to Biden whatsoever. Like I said, you quickly get into conspiracy theories with this stuff because that's the only way to hold it altogether.

There are lots of movements against Trump across lots of jurisdictions among lots of charges.

Is it a single, concentrated mass attack from one mastermind?  Maybe not. 

To think there's been zero coordination from anyone in Biden's camp or the DNC?  I find that... unlikely.

I mean, they'd be pretty terrible at their jobs if they DIDN'T attempt to press whatever advantages they have.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 11:32:44 AM
Does anyone here believe Biden has the "mental capacity to be President"?

Now, we've had incapacitated presidents before, I think implicit in the question is "effective President", not just a turnip holding the office.

Is he able to make decisions competently?  Is he able to respond to crises effectively, and on his own judgment?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:03:33 PM
There are lots of movements against Trump across lots of jurisdictions among lots of charges.

Is it a single, concentrated mass attack from one mastermind?  Maybe not. 

To think there's been zero coordination from anyone in Biden's camp or the DNC?  I find that... unlikely.

I mean, they'd be pretty terrible at their jobs if they DIDN'T attempt to press whatever advantages they have.

Trump is easily the weakest candidate the Republicans can field, they shouldn't be going out of their way to knock him out.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:04:46 PM
If this is lawfare, the intent is not to Knock Trump out, but to damage him to the point he could be beaten.  There is no way to knock him out without use of physical force,or a health issue.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:12:46 PM
If this is lawfare, the intent is not to Knock Trump out, but to damage him to the point he could be beaten.  There is no way to knock him out without use of physical force,or a health issue.
Joe Biden cosplaying as Loki
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 12:12:58 PM
Trump is easily the weakest candidate the Republicans can field, they shouldn't be going out of their way to knock him out.
They can't knock him out of the Republican nomination, so they absolutely should be trying to weaken him so that their own highly undesirable candidate can beat him.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:15:09 PM
The question is whether Joe has the mental capacity to serve as a real President, making decisions, understanding issues, responding to crises, etc.

No one here has really made any effort to defend him.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:15:21 PM
They can't knock him out of the Republican nomination, so they absolutely should be trying to weaken him so that their own highly undesirable candidate can beat him.
Joe Biden and his campaign engineering multistate criminal investigations and indictments, can't prevent indictment of own kid. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:16:05 PM
The question is whether Joe has the mental capacity to serve as a real President, making decisions, understanding issues, responding to crises, etc.

No one here has really made any effort to defend him.


Honestly, if he can do what he is accused of, engineering all these criminal investigations against Trump, then yes, he is. There isn't even a good argument against it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:18:21 PM
Honestly, if he can do what he is accused of, engineering all these criminal investigations against Trump, then yes, he is. There isn't even a good argument against it.
No one has accused him of that, here anyway.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:19:04 PM
No one has accused him of that, here anyway. 
They have, read above. Gets tiring when people want to speak out of both sides of their mouths all the time. Like politicians.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 12, 2024, 12:20:27 PM
Joe Biden has not been running this country the last three and a half years nor is he fit to.  He's just been a figure head all along.  The Obama farm team has been running the country.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:27:00 PM
NOBODY here who believes Biden is mentally incompetent also believes he's managing lawfare against Trump.

Let's try for some simple coherence here.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 12:27:33 PM
Honestly, if he can do what he is accused of, engineering all these criminal investigations against Trump, then yes, he is. There isn't even a good argument against it.
Why do you continue being deliberately obtuse?  Joe Biden can be completely mentally incompetent, and his camp can still be working against Trump.

The false dichotomy you continue to present is a logical fallacy, therefore any words uttered beyond it, are meaningless.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:28:21 PM
It's a way to dodge answering the question posed, which is understandable.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:31:11 PM
Why do you continue being deliberately obtuse?  Joe Biden can be completely mentally incompetent, and his camp can still be working against Trump.

The false dichotomy you continue to present is a logical fallacy, therefore any words uttered beyond it, are meaningless.

So someone, not Biden, is behind the scenes, engineering criminal investigations in multiple jurisdictions, without leaving any trail, and we should believe that. As I already said, you are now in conspiracy theories. That's why I'm calling it nonsense. Sure, it is theoretically possible, but to believe it you have to be an idiot.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:32:27 PM
So, is Joe Biden competent to function as President competently, or not?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:34:22 PM
It's a way to dodge answering the question posed, which is understandable.
I've already said what I've thought, several times. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 12:38:15 PM
So someone, not Biden, is behind the scenes, engineering criminal investigations in multiple jurisdictions, without leaving any trail, and we should believe that. As I already said, you are now in conspiracy theories. That's why I'm calling it nonsense. Sure, it is theoretically possible, but to believe it you have to be an idiot.
To not see it, you have to be an idiot. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 12:41:00 PM
So someone, not Biden, is behind the scenes, engineering criminal investigations in multiple jurisdictions, without leaving any trail, and we should believe that. As I already said, you are now in conspiracy theories. That's why I'm calling it nonsense. Sure, it is theoretically possible, but to believe it you have to be an idiot.

Continuing to present logical fallacies as a defense, is what demonstrates someone is an idiot.

  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:46:32 PM
To not see it, you have to be an idiot.
No. Trump is charged with state crimes in Georgia and New York, namely by the Fulton County DA and the Manhattan DA. What do those two have in common? They sit in a jurisdiction that overwhelmingly voted against Trump and they almost certainly see these charges as a way to enhance their own political prospects. That's it - you don't need some vast conspiracy here - Trump does a lot of shady crap and they pounced on it. 

The federal charges are at least something Biden could have some control over. But the DOJ has always had some independence from the president (which is why Joe's own son was indicted), and they appointed a special prosecutor anyway to give even more independence. So trying to say that Biden, or his team, initiated those charges is silly. They didn't, and there is no evidence they did.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 12:47:30 PM
Continuing to present logical fallacies as a defense, is what demonstrates someone is an idiot.

 
You keep confusing what is theoretically possible as some sort of argument. That isn't an argument. That you can imagine something isn't evidence that it happened.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:47:39 PM
Angry and stunned Democrats blame Biden’s closest advisers for shielding public from full extent of president’s decline | CNN Politics (https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/11/politics/joe-biden-age-decline-democrats-angry/index.html)

I don't see how the campaign can recover at this point.  I'm sort of laughing at folks who claim they didn't know this a year ago.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 12:48:35 PM
Anyway, I don't necessarily believe that Biden's camp is helping to organize the movements against Trump, but I think it's silly to believe it's impossible.  Indeed I think they'd be crazy NOT to be helping out across the various jurisdictions, in an effort to weaken Trump in the eyes of the American public and potentially pull some undecideds in their direction.

They don't have to "orchestrate" or "mastermind" anything, it's as easy as just spreading some information here and there, lubricating the process where you have connections, and then spreading FUD when you have nothing concrete.  Politicians and their camps do this all the time, it's nothing new.  It's not some grand conspiracy.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:49:52 PM
So, an additional question would be "How can the Biden campaign recover and potentially win the election?"

You have CNN out there going full bore, multiple Democrats in Congress, a ton of folks "behind the scene", even folks on MSNBC now.  I don't see any path back to "normalcy" for the campaign where everyone kind of forgets all this or decides it was not much of anything.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 12:52:03 PM
Polls show Democrats are right to panic about Biden (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-2024-polls-drop-out-rcna161348)

Reading the polls and donor support matters, and will matter a lot.  I don't see how Biden can survive all of this, much less be competitive in the election.

They panickin', Morty, I kin feel it.

KEY BATTLES
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 01:40:14 PM
So, an additional question would be "How can the Biden campaign recover and potentially win the election?"

You have CNN out there going full bore, multiple Democrats in Congress, a ton of folks "behind the scene", even folks on MSNBC now.  I don't see any path back to "normalcy" for the campaign where everyone kind of forgets all this or decides it was not much of anything.
The only feasible way is to make public appearances and not sound addle brained. Not sure that is in the cards.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: utee94 on July 12, 2024, 01:43:33 PM
So if Biden has already clinched the delegates he needs for the nomination, is there actually a way to remove him from the election?  What do the mechanics of that look like?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 01:48:58 PM
The delegates are not legally bound.  If there is no majority in Round One, the Super Delegate step in and can vote.  So one way is that Biden's delegates abstain first round, or vote for Harris, and then she is nominated instead of him.

But the convention is August 19-22.  Ohio already passed a law to allow Biden to be on their ballot, I don't know if that includes the nominee or just Joe.

For them to have a wounded candidate for nearly five weeks and THEN contrive to replace him ....  well, it would be something.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2024, 02:43:25 PM
Why do you continue being deliberately obtuse?  Joe Biden can be completely mentally incompetent, and his camp can still be working against Trump.

The false dichotomy you continue to present is a logical fallacy, therefore any words uttered beyond it, are meaningless.
Isn't that a prerequisite to enter law school plus 15 hrs of watching Mr Haney on Green Acres.
And knock it off with all the unabating big words Junior
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2024, 02:45:17 PM
I've already said what I've thought, several times.
Answer the question Claire,c'mon
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 12, 2024, 02:49:07 PM
Does anyone here believe Biden has the "mental capacity to be President"?

Now, we've had incapacitated presidents before, I think implicit in the question is "effective President", not just a turnip holding the office.
How about a lampshade, turnips are living things with feelings
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 02:53:56 PM
Answer the question Claire,c'mon
I don't find him to be incompetent in the sense that he doesn't know who people are or what people are talking about. He's old and slow and mixes up names and loses his train of thought. Does that mean he doesn't have the "mental capacity" to be president? Not sure what the standard is for that, but I suppose he does have the mental capacity to be president. But people are clearly concerned about it for good reason, and it ain't going to get better.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 02:55:27 PM
But that's just putting everyone who does something against Trump in some big bucket and calling it Biden. Lots of people hate Trump who don't have any connection to Biden whatsoever. Like I said, you quickly get into conspiracy theories with this stuff because that's the only way to hold it altogether.
You're overthinking it, Sam. 

The whole point is that none of the prosecutions are Trump's fault for the wrong he's done and the crimes he's committed. It's all someone else's fault. 

If you can't defend his actions, sometimes all you're left with is "malicious/selective prosecution :91:"
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:26:27 PM
One very useful attribute for a President is being articulate.  A President can better LEAD by framing issues and proposed solutions in an articulate manner.  It's more readily accepted.  I used to think Jimmy Carter gave good speeches, if you read them, but they were not very good if you listened to him.  Obama, to me, was the reverse, he sounded good, but if I read the text, I'd often wonder what point he was making.

Another of course is being liked, admired, respected, etc., and having a decent popularity figure.  Were I President, I'd list three things, and focus on getting them done, visibly, and when one was done, I'd add another, etc.  And I'd use the Bully Pulpit, a lot.  I think I could present my case reasonably well on key issues and that would be more likely to drag Congress along and thereby get a thing done, maybe not exactly as I wished, but fairly close.

Anyway .....
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 03:36:47 PM
And yet our two choices for the office are the guy whose best day is incomprehensible verbal diarrhea that sprays all over the place and stinks, and the guy who can't string together a sentence that proves he knows who and where he is. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:40:06 PM
Yes, neither does well in my view using my metric.

Delegates elected to the national convention pledged to a presidential candidate shall in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them

The above is a convention "rule".   Were I a delegate, I could interpret that to mean "at the present time".  What are the sentiments from my "district" at the present time?

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 03:41:38 PM
So, an additional question would be "How can the Biden campaign recover and potentially win the election?"

You have CNN out there going full bore, multiple Democrats in Congress, a ton of folks "behind the scene", even folks on MSNBC now.  I don't see any path back to "normalcy" for the campaign where everyone kind of forgets all this or decides it was not much of anything.
This and this:
Reading the polls and donor support matters, and will matter a lot.  I don't see how Biden can survive all of this, much less be competitive in the election.
Are interesting questions but I think you have perhaps underestimated the polarization of the US Electorate.  

I took the #'s from 538's site a couple days ago so this isn't 100% current but I think it is close enough and mostly post-debate.  

Electoral Votes where the margin is >12%:

Electoral Votes where the margin is >8%:
Electoral Votes where the margin is >6%:
Electoral Votes where the margin is >4%:

What I am getting at here is that the Democrat (whoever it is) has something of a "safety net" somewhere between 167-225 EV's.  Here are the Democrat's 167 surest EV's:

For reference:
There are NO living Republicans who have ever carried any of the above states in a Presidential Election and Michael Dukakis who will turn 91 just before the election this fall is the only living Democrat to have ever lost any of the above states in a Presidential Election.  


My point here is that I just can't see Trump or any other Republican getting beyond "striking distance" from Biden or any other Democrat.  I think the Democrat literally no matter who it is can safely rely on at least the above districts and their 167 EV's.  Realistically I think the same applies to NJ, CO, NM, and VA as well and that brings the D (whoever it is) to a minimum of 209 EV's.  Maine, New Hampshire, and Minnesota are arguably among that group and if you include them then any D has 225 EV's in the bank before the campaign even starts and thus only needs 45 to win.  

For that reason I just don't see this getting beyond "striking distance" so I think the election will be at least theoretically competitive.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:44:56 PM
The related factor of course is how a President is viewed by other leaders.  If they view him as weak and not in touch with "reality", they will be emboldened in a way they would not otherwise be.  This is perhaps more important.  

Hitler for example knew the bind Chamberlain was in given the French unwillingness to go to war over the Sudetenland.  He saw Chamberlain as indecisive, and took advantage.  When France and GB gave guarantees to Poland, he viewed those as being silly and irrelevant.  Russia was the only power that could do anything about Poland.

Presume Putin finally gets his way in Ukraine, which is possible, a rump state with a leader of Putin's choosing.  Would the leaders in Moldova cave in thinking Biden wouldn't be of any real help.  What about the Baltic states?  Would they cave wondering if Article 5 were really a thing?  (And yes, you can ask this hypothetical about Trump.)

Would we go to war with a nuclear power over Estonia?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:50:01 PM
For that reason I just don't see this getting beyond "striking distance" so I think the election will be at least theoretically competitive. 
Ai agree entirely with your math.  The BG states are the ones that count.  They currently poll closely for DJT.  Somebody claimed NY state was in play now, I don't agree.

The electoral count would be apparently close if we ran a turnip against a rabid bat.  It had been the case that WI MI and PA were in the Dem column baring something unusual, then OH Fl VA might flip.  Now you have GA and NC in the might flip column.  At the moment, all of these states poll better for Trump, but typically by 2-5 points.

I have no clue what turnout will be.  I know a lot of US are unduly unhappy and frustrated that it has come to  this.

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 03:50:53 PM
My point here is that I just can't see Trump or any other Republican getting beyond "striking distance" from Biden or any other Democrat.  I think the Democrat literally no matter who it is can safely rely on at least the above districts and their 167 EV's.  Realistically I think the same applies to NJ, CO, NM, and VA as well and that brings the D (whoever it is) to a minimum of 209 EV's.  Maine, New Hampshire, and Minnesota are arguably among that group and if you include them then any D has 225 EV's in the bank before the campaign even starts and thus only needs 45 to win. 

For that reason I just don't see this getting beyond "striking distance" so I think the election will be at least theoretically competitive. 
That's all true. The Democrats could run a cognitively limited old man and the Republicans could run lh320's cat, and both would have a certain floor of safe electoral votes. 

However if the Democrats run a cognitively limited old man, they may still be within theoretical "striking distance", but not against any competent Republican candidate. In fact, the only reason anyone thinks Biden might still have any sort of chance is that the Republicans have nominated Donald Trump. They're relying on anti-Trump voters, not pro-Biden voters. (Which admittedly worked in 2020.) 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:51:55 PM
Biden support slips in deep blue New York: ‘We’re a battleground state now’ - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/10/biden-new-york-trouble-00167198)

The closely watched Siena College poll in June (https://scri.siena.edu/2024/06/20/hochul-favorability-38-49-job-approval-44-50-ratings-lowest-ever-voters-hochul-doesnt-care-about-people-like-them-or-provide-decisive-leadership-small-pluralities-think-she-works-hard-a/) found Biden with an 8-point advantage over Trump. The same poll found only 28 percent of voters not enrolled in a major party supported Biden’s reelection, and 71 percent of them disapproved of the job Biden is doing.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:52:48 PM
Obviously, if Trump won NY, it's over and then some.  But this means the Dems will need to spend resources there, and the republicans may be tempted to do the same.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 03:59:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cLMXkQE.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 04:01:34 PM
You're overthinking it, Sam.

The whole point is that none of the prosecutions are Trump's fault for the wrong he's done and the crimes he's committed. It's all someone else's fault.
If you can't defend his actions, sometimes all you're left with is "malicious/selective prosecution :91:"
Pretty much every convicted criminal ever alleges malicious/selective prosecution so I get where you are coming from.  The Comedian Ron White has a joke that his DUI was bogus because "they were stopping every car driving down that sidewalk and that is profiling".  

From that perspective, I get where you are coming from.  

That said, all those "34 felony convictions" are from one prosecution in a district that voted ~90% against him, by a prosecutor who essentially ran on "I'm going to get Trump".  That is a bit stronger than the typical thug just randomly saying that the cops were out to get him.  The prosecutor literally was out to get him and said so in his campaign and was elected at least in part BECAUSE the heavily democratic voters of his district saw that as a worthwhile pursuit.  

That is my submission #1.  

#2 is what I submitted in one of these threads on here somewhere about the NY case.  I've read up on it.  The legal issue fascinated me way back when the DoJ went after Edwards for more-or-less the same thing and FAILED to get a conviction.  That very same DoJ publicly announced that they would NOT prosecute a case against Trump for it because of the Edwards precedent.  

It is, was, and should be a Federal case and the Feds (Biden's Feds, not Trump's) chose NOT to pursue it because they don't think it is a crime.  

To my knowledge, all the NY felonies are based on covering "another crime" and the "other crime" is the Federal Election Law violation that the DoJ said wasn't a crime.  On that basis, I'm comfortable stating that I think the whole NY Prosecution is a political charade and an unfortunate weaponization of the Legal System for Political Purposes.  

I'll add this:
If there is some obscure count that I am unaware of that doesn't rely on the Federal Elections Law Violation that the DoJ said wasn't a violation then I'll assert right now upfront that it isn't MY fault that I didn't realize that.  It is the NY Prosecutor's fault for tossing a bunch of garbage in with one actual case.  Also, the prosecution of an Elections Law Violation that the DoJ said wasn't a crime by a State Prosecutor (who has no business prosecuting Federal Election Law) taints everything else he throws at Trump and gives credence to Trump's "malicious/selective prosecution" argument.  Again, that isn't MY fault nor Trump's, it is the fault of the NY Prosecutor who brought the ridiculous case in the first place.  

Next I'll move to the GA cases:
I know that at least one prosecutor got tossed for "issues" but beyond that, everything that I have seen has been an effort to prosecute Trump for aggressively pursuing his case.  If you use that as the standard, Al Gore and ALL of his minions should STILL be in jail for aggressively pursuing their case in Florida after the 2000 election.  

The have Trump on the phone saying "I only need (whatever number) votes."  An anti-Trump prosecutor can read that and say "He's trying to create false votes".  A Trump defender can look at that and say "He's looking for whatever is available just like Gore was."  My issue with the prosecution is that the criminal standard is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and you just don't have that.  You've got a question of what he meant and reasonable people can disagree about the answer but to say it is "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a bridge too far.  And once again you have a prosecutor from a HEAVILY democratic district pushing the prosecution.  

I honestly haven't looked all that close at this one but from my perspective I did look closely at the NY one and it is complete BS.  From my perspective that taints all the rest.  

On the classified docs.  I think both investigations are kinda making mountains out of mole hills.  I don't think either Trump or Biden did anything appreciably "wrong" in those cases.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 04:09:59 PM
However if the Democrats run a cognitively limited old man, they may still be within theoretical "striking distance", but not against any competent Republican candidate. In fact, the only reason anyone thinks Biden might still have any sort of chance is that the Republicans have nominated Donald Trump. They're relying on anti-Trump voters, not pro-Biden voters. (Which admittedly worked in 2020.)
I don't think there ever were an appreciable number of voters "excited" about voting FOR Biden.  

Just to clarify, that is a political comment but not a partisan one.  Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump excite people.  Think whatever you want of them and their policies but they get voters excited.  Biden doesn't, Hillary didn't, Romney didn't.  

I agree with your comment about 2020.  Per above, I really don't think an appreciable number of voters were excited about voting FOR Biden, they just ran on "not Trump" and it worked.  I agree that is a big part of the reason the race is still as close as it is.  For all his faults, Biden is still "not Trump".  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 04:17:48 PM
I don't find him to be incompetent in the sense that he doesn't know who people are or what people are talking about. He's old and slow and mixes up names and loses his train of thought. Does that mean he doesn't have the "mental capacity" to be president? Not sure what the standard is for that, but I suppose he does have the mental capacity to be president. But people are clearly concerned about it for good reason, and it ain't going to get better.
I'm trying to view this in as non-partisan a way as I can and I just think this is wishful thinking.  I've seen dementia up close and personal and that is what I think we are seeing.  

I will say that, having seen it, it is fairly likely that Biden actually IS fully competent most of the time and just has these lapses where he doesn't know what year it is (saying a few days ago that he'll beat Trump in 2020), who his is introducing (Introducing Zelensky as Putin and Harris as Trump), etc.  

As I see it, there are two problems with that:

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 04:18:37 PM
Next I'll move to the GA cases:
I know that at least one prosecutor got tossed for "issues" but beyond that, everything that I have seen has been an effort to prosecute Trump for aggressively pursuing his case.  If you use that as the standard, Al Gore and ALL of his minions should STILL be in jail for aggressively pursuing their case in Florida after the 2000 election. 

The have Trump on the phone saying "I only need (whatever number) votes."  An anti-Trump prosecutor can read that and say "He's trying to create false votes".  A Trump defender can look at that and say "He's looking for whatever is available just like Gore was."  My issue with the prosecution is that the criminal standard is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and you just don't have that.  You've got a question of what he meant and reasonable people can disagree about the answer but to say it is "beyond a reasonable doubt" is a bridge too far.  And once again you have a prosecutor from a HEAVILY democratic district pushing the prosecution. 
Fulton County voted 73-26 for Biden, so it isn't HEAVILY democratic.  The prosecutor is for Fulton County.  This doesn't change your point of course.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 04:24:07 PM
Fulton County voted 73-26 for Biden, so it isn't HEAVILY democratic.  The prosecutor is for Fulton County.  This doesn't change your point of course.
I didn't look it up before I posted, but I'd call 73-26 "HEAVILY".  That is damn close to 3:1.  It is heavy enough that a Democrat does not have an appreciable chance of losing to a Republican and thus they have no political incentive to appear even-handed.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 04:45:31 PM
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4768835-biden-2024-election-path/
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 04:48:21 PM
You're overthinking it, Sam.

The whole point is that none of the prosecutions are Trump's fault for the wrong he's done and the crimes he's committed. It's all someone else's fault.

If you can't defend his actions, sometimes all you're left with is "malicious/selective prosecution :91:"
wow-- a little "out there" for your normally rational posts.

I hate the guy- as I have said a million times.  He is Egotistical, bombastic, narcissistic, and has diarrhea of the mouth. But I am not convinced he committed a single crime.

When the "prosecutions" are made up, (just like the impeachment hoaxes') he does have a right to cry foul.  And you cant deny the MSM and Dem Party have tried their best to "get him" with things that have proven to be corrupt in their intentions and "evidence."   Just like the Dem talking point "nobody is above the law"  :57:

Except appointing a civilian (jack Smith) to investigate with unlimited authority and subpoena power and prosecute Trump is WAYYY outside the law. There is no law or legislation or constitutional precedent to even allow something that obviously political and illegal.  That's Banana Republic stuff.  Talk about a threat to democracy.    I think that's why the recent poll I saw had Trump as less a threat to democracy than Biden.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 04:56:39 PM
I'm trying to view this in as non-partisan a way as I can and I just think this is wishful thinking.  I've seen dementia up close and personal and that is what I think we are seeing. 

I will say that, having seen it, it is fairly likely that Biden actually IS fully competent most of the time and just has these lapses where he doesn't know what year it is (saying a few days ago that he'll beat Trump in 2020), who his is introducing (Introducing Zelensky as Putin and Harris as Trump), etc. 

As I see it, there are two problems with that:
  • As unlikely as it is, there *MIGHT* be a serious nuclear attack.  Let's say Putin gets pissed about us arming his enemy and interfering in his neighborhood and nukes a USN CAG in the North Sea.  What is NSA supposed to do if they tell Biden and he tells them to go ask President Eisenhower what to do?  (I'm lifting the President Eisenhower part from personal experience because at one point my dad (born in 1940) that that IKE (left office in 1961) was President). 
  • Dementia gets worse and Biden is running for a four year term that ends 4.5 years from now. 


I will disagree with you here.  To me- and many, he has been mentally declining, rapidly, for years. Obvious.  And here is where it is a problem for him:

-it has been covered up  ( I loved the headline on CNN the other day  "Top Dems Furious over Biden's condition being Hidden from them")  The White House staff called unedited videos of his stumble and falls and freezing "deepfakes" right up to the debate.

-who is running things?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 12, 2024, 05:06:52 PM
I will disagree with you here.  To me- and many, he has been mentally declining, rapidly, for years. Obvious.  And here is where it is a problem for him:

-it has been covered up  ( I loved the headline on CNN the other day  "Top Dems Furious over Biden's condition being Hidden from them")  The White House staff called unedited videos of his stumble and falls and freezing "deepfakes" right up to the debate.

-who is running things?
I said somewhere in one of these threads that I truly believe that this is a case of the pro-Democrat media bias backfiring and HURTING Democrats.  Follow me here:

Suppose the situation were reversed:  An 81 year old Republican in significant cognitive decline was in the WH and seeking re-election.  His decline would have been BEATEN into us for the past four years.  SNL's "News" would have been running "Biden forgets what year it is" and "Biden forgets he is President" jokes for the past four years.  That would have led to a seriously contested Republican Primary.  With a seriously contested primary, the debate debacle would have happened at a Primary debate and the Republican incumbent would have lost the Primary.  He would now be a lame duck serving out his term.  

Instead, the media treated Trump's "sleepy Joe" comments and the like as COMPLETELY baseless and failed to look into it AT ALL.  Thus, there was no serious Democratic Primary, Biden didn't have to face Primary Debates and consequently the debacle didn't happen until a point in the cycle where it was too late to replace him through the Primary process and possibly too late to replace him period.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 05:38:35 PM
wow-- a little "out there" for your normally rational posts.

Only because I see people bending themselves into pretzels to excuse Trump, despite so many of them (esp. on this board) admitting what a foul, horrible person he is. 

Quote
hate the guy- as I have said a million times.  He is Egotistical, bombastic, narcissistic, and has diarrhea of the mouth. But I am not convinced he committed a single crime.

Well, he's already lost two high-profile civil cases. One for defamation and one for his company's fraudulence. And while you may not be convinced he committed a single crime, a jury of 12 unanimously convicted him of 34 felony counts. 

And notice in the latter case, the facts weren't really at issue. Cheated on his wife with a porn star, paid her hush money to cover it up. Nobody except Trump himself seems to deny the sex, and not even he can deny the hush money. The question, then, is whether it is a crime. And Trump apologists bend themselves into pretzels saying sure, he had sex with a porn star and paid her off to keep quiet so it wouldn't affect his campaign, but is that really a crime? 

Now he's got a case for classified documents. It might be one thing if someone asked him for all his Presidential records and it turned out there were a handful of classified docs in there. But it went a lot farther. There is (if the indictment is to be believed, and admittedly indictments are the most damning possible reading of the facts) a deliberate effort to keep and cover up the existence of more classified documents after they were already requested, up to and including an FBI raid that found boxes full of them. That goes to intent. Not an oversight. You're saying that's not a crime? 

Conspiring to submit a slate of fraudulent electors from a couple of the states in question in the 2020 election? You're cool with that one? Not a crime? 

The Jan 6 stuff is murky because the legal bar for "incitement" is high, but given what he did say on Jan 6, you think he's above investigation/prosecution? You're definitively going to say it wasn't a crime? 


Quote
When the "prosecutions" are made up, (just like the impeachment hoaxes') he does have a right to cry foul.  And you cant deny the MSM and Dem Party have tried their best to "get him" with things that have proven to be corrupt in their intentions and "evidence."  Just like the Dem talking point "nobody is above the law"  :57:

He cries foul at EVERYTHING. It's pathological. He's never been held to account and so whenever someone tries to hold him to account for anything, he decries it as the most unfair treatment that anyone has experienced in human history. 

And the impeachment "hoax"? The man was extorting valid aid that Congress had appropriated for Ukraine in order to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden. You want to talk about "lawfare"? What exactly was that, then? It was basically the textbook definition of quid pro quo. "You do this personal/political favor for me, and then I'll stop blocking the aid that Congress already said you were due."


Quote
Except appointing a civilian (jack Smith) to investigate with unlimited authority and subpoena power and prosecute Trump is WAYYY outside the law. There is no law or legislation or constitutional precedent to even allow something that obviously political and illegal.  That's Banana Republic stuff.  Talk about a threat to democracy.    I think that's why the recent poll I saw had Trump as less a threat to democracy than Biden.

Only one of them has denied the results of a United States Presidential Election--and continues to do so. Only one of them has conspired in multiple plots to obstruct the certification of the votes in certain battleground states. Only one of them has conspired to submit slates of fraudulent electors to throw the election results into disarray. Only one of them has attempted to strongarm his VP, the presider over the certification of the election, to abdicate his responsibility and throw it to the HoR. And when that didn't work, only one of them has tried to get his lackeys in Congress to object to the specific states electoral vote counts to overturn the election and throw it to the HoR. And only one of them, when none of that worked and he was surrounded by people erecting gallows and wanting to hang Mike Pence, exhorted them to go down to the Capitol building and "fight or you won't have a country anymore"... And that's what they did. 

Only one of them has said he wants to be a dictator on day one. Only one of them says he deserves not just to be elected again, but "a third term" because it's so unfair that one was "stolen" from him. 

There was a big legal fight in 2000. It came down to SCOTUS. But in the end, Al Gore accepted and conceded defeat. Trump had 60 court cases over the election, many of which were under Republican-appointed judges. As I recall, he lost 59 of them. He lost. And to this day, he won't admit it. Again, it's pathological. He fears "losing" so much that he can't fathom that any election he loses isn't rigged. 

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 12, 2024, 05:45:25 PM
I wish to disagree.   But I can’t. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 05:54:35 PM
I wish to disagree.  But I can’t.
I can.  And do.  When your convicting him of molesting someone in a department store, and the videos indicate neither party was even there, then your too biased to even converse with. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 05:59:10 PM
34 counts.  Lol.  NDAs are 100% legal.   They are used all the time.  Hell, I have signed dozens for work.  

They have zero correlation to guilt.   They are more related to silence.    

But when your mind is made up despite facts- there is nothing left to debate.  

In that Lib filled manhattan court- they could have charged him with liking peppermint, claimed it was a death sentence felony, and got a conviction.  


C’mon man.    
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 06:00:55 PM
Only because I see people bending themselves into pretzels to excuse Trump, despite so many of them (esp. on this board) admitting what a foul, horrible person he is.

Well, he's already lost two high-profile civil cases. One for defamation and one for his company's fraudulence. And while you may not be convinced he committed a single crime, a jury of 12 unanimously convicted him of 34 felony counts.

And notice in the latter case, the facts weren't really at issue. Cheated on his wife with a porn star, paid her hush money to cover it up. Nobody except Trump himself seems to deny the sex, and not even he can deny the hush money. The question, then, is whether it is a crime. And Trump apologists bend themselves into pretzels saying sure, he had sex with a porn star and paid her off to keep quiet so it wouldn't affect his campaign, but is that really a crime?

Now he's got a case for classified documents. It might be one thing if someone asked him for all his Presidential records and it turned out there were a handful of classified docs in there. But it went a lot farther. There is (if the indictment is to be believed, and admittedly indictments are the most damning possible reading of the facts) a deliberate effort to keep and cover up the existence of more classified documents after they were already requested, up to and including an FBI raid that found boxes full of them. That goes to intent. Not an oversight. You're saying that's not a crime?

Conspiring to submit a slate of fraudulent electors from a couple of the states in question in the 2020 election? You're cool with that one? Not a crime?

The Jan 6 stuff is murky because the legal bar for "incitement" is high, but given what he did say on Jan 6, you think he's above investigation/prosecution? You're definitively going to say it wasn't a crime?

He cries foul at EVERYTHING. It's pathological. He's never been held to account and so whenever someone tries to hold him to account for anything, he decries it as the most unfair treatment that anyone has experienced in human history.

And the impeachment "hoax"? The man was extorting valid aid that Congress had appropriated for Ukraine in order to get Ukraine to announce an investigation into Biden. You want to talk about "lawfare"? What exactly was that, then? It was basically the textbook definition of quid pro quo. "You do this personal/political favor for me, and then I'll stop blocking the aid that Congress already said you were due."


Only one of them has denied the results of a United States Presidential Election--and continues to do so. Only one of them has conspired in multiple plots to obstruct the certification of the votes in certain battleground states. Only one of them has conspired to submit slates of fraudulent electors to throw the election results into disarray. Only one of them has attempted to strongarm his VP, the presider over the certification of the election, to abdicate his responsibility and throw it to the HoR. And when that didn't work, only one of them has tried to get his lackeys in Congress to object to the specific states electoral vote counts to overturn the election and throw it to the HoR. And only one of them, when none of that worked and he was surrounded by people erecting gallows and wanting to hang Mike Pence, exhorted them to go down to the Capitol building and "fight or you won't have a country anymore"... And that's what they did.

Only one of them has said he wants to be a dictator on day one. Only one of them says he deserves not just to be elected again, but "a third term" because it's so unfair that one was "stolen" from him.

There was a big legal fight in 2000. It came down to SCOTUS. But in the end, Al Gore accepted and conceded defeat. Trump had 60 court cases over the election, many of which were under Republican-appointed judges. As I recall, he lost 59 of them. He lost. And to this day, he won't admit it. Again, it's pathological. He fears "losing" so much that he can't fathom that any election he loses isn't rigged.


This post is filled with fallacies and untruths, from top to bottom.  You win.   
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 12, 2024, 06:07:50 PM
This post is filled with fallacies and untruths, from top to bottom.  You win.   
Fine. Let's limit it, then, to the time between election day and January 6. 

Do you not see literally ANYTHING in that timeframe that suggests Donald Trump is a threat to democracy? 

Or do you think the vote was entirely fraudulent and rigged, like he told you, and that he was just trying to protect democracy as the legitimate winner of the election?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Mdot21 on July 12, 2024, 06:40:06 PM
Only because I see people bending themselves into pretzels to excuse Trump, despite so many of them (esp. on this board) admitting what a foul, horrible person he is.
newsflash: Joe Biden is a foul, horrible person as well who has done INFINITELY more damage to people in this country and across the globe than Trump could ever dream of doing. Black people are locked up in this country at VASTLY disproportionate rates because of: Joe "I wrote the damn crime bills" Biden. Many of whom for doing nothing but the same thing as his crackhead son: being addicted to crack cocaine. Joe Biden has vehemently supported every single god damn war that this country has fought in the last 50 or so years, including Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan. Joe Biden has been actively full-stop supporting mass slaughter and ethnic cleansing in Gaza over the past 9 months. The Lancet journal just came out and said a conservative estimate of the actual death toll there is something around 186,000 people dead. Joe Biden ran point in the Obama administration for Ukraine policy and was involved the US overthrowing a democratically elected government in Ukraine. How'd that turn out for the world? Uh, not great. Trump looks like a saint compared to someone like Biden for the simple fact he hasn't been in power long enough to do the kind of very real damage and destruction that Biden's policies have contributed to over the course of FIFTY years.

Joe Biden is one of the biggest lying scumbag morally bankrupt, corrupt repugnant pieces of shit ever to walk the earth. The guy didn't get the nickname "the senator from MBNA" for nothin' ya know.

Joe Biden was never fit to President. Even way before his brain melted into the double fudge chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream he drools over....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRZ7xVsbykE
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 07:49:10 PM

Quote
Except appointing a civilian (jack Smith) to investigate with unlimited authority and subpoena power and prosecute Trump is WAYYY outside the law. There is no law or legislation or constitutional precedent to even allow something that obviously political and illegal.  That's Banana Republic stuff.  Talk about a threat to democracy.    I think that's why the recent poll I saw had Trump as less a threat to democracy than Biden.
It's this kind of "heads we win tails you lose" logic that Trump excels at. My ex-wife loved that too - maybe that's why I'm so sensitive to it.


The entire point of a special prosecutor is to put a layer of distance between Biden's DOJ and the Trump investigation. Obviously Biden, and by extension his appointees, have a vested interest in Biden winning. So appointing a special prosecutor, especially a civilian, who isn't beholden to Biden is a way to rectify that conflict of interest. 

Now, Trump is making the argument that there is no statutory authority to appoint such a special counsel. Fine, he can make the argument. But to call it "WAYYY outside the law," "obviously political and illegal," or "Banana Republic stuff' is goofy. If he didn't appoint such a special counsel, Trump would be arguing that obviously there is a conflict of interest and a special counsel needs to be appointed. Tails I win and heads you lose.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 08:08:10 PM
I said somewhere in one of these threads that I truly believe that this is a case of the pro-Democrat media bias backfiring and HURTING Democrats.  Follow me here:

Suppose the situation were reversed:  An 81 year old Republican in significant cognitive decline was in the WH and seeking re-election.  His decline would have been BEATEN into us for the past four years.  SNL's "News" would have been running "Biden forgets what year it is" and "Biden forgets he is President" jokes for the past four years.  That would have led to a seriously contested Republican Primary.  With a seriously contested primary, the debate debacle would have happened at a Primary debate and the Republican incumbent would have lost the Primary.  He would now be a lame duck serving out his term. 

Instead, the media treated Trump's "sleepy Joe" comments and the like as COMPLETELY baseless and failed to look into it AT ALL.  Thus, there was no serious Democratic Primary, Biden didn't have to face Primary Debates and consequently the debacle didn't happen until a point in the cycle where it was too late to replace him through the Primary process and possibly too late to replace him period. 
I don't disagree at all. Liberal types often go way out of their way to avoid having any type of actual debate/conflict. A lot of Poindexter types in there, especially among the political people. I've spent a lot of time with them, and they tend to be extremely cocky in their methods, far past what their results would show. Though I can't complain too much - trial lawyers can be the same way.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 08:49:41 PM
It's this kind of "heads we win tails you lose" logic that Trump excels at. My ex-wife loved that too - maybe that's why I'm so sensitive to it.


The entire point of a special prosecutor is to put a layer of distance between Biden's DOJ and the Trump investigation. Obviously Biden, and by extension his appointees, have a vested interest in Biden winning. So appointing a special prosecutor, especially a civilian, who isn't beholden to Biden is a way to rectify that conflict of interest.

Now, Trump is making the argument that there is no statutory authority to appoint such a special counsel. Fine, he can make the argument. But to call it "WAYYY outside the law," "obviously political and illegal," or "Banana Republic stuff' is goofy. If he didn't appoint such a special counsel, Trump would be arguing that obviously there is a conflict of interest and a special counsel needs to be appointed. Tails I win and heads you lose.
There is no statutory authority.  It’s never been done.  It’s a made up process. Just like the fake felony in New York. 
And it isn’t Trump making the argument.  It ever unbiased legal scholar that has opined.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 08:57:06 PM
There is no statutory authority.  It’s never been done.  It’s a made up process. Just like the fake felony in New York. 
And it isn’t Trump making the argument.  It ever unbiased legal scholar that has opined.
There have been many special counsel appointments. Jack Smith pointed out several made by William Barr. Trump made similar arguments about Robert Mueller, himself a special counsel.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2024, 09:06:14 PM
I wonder how many crimes Trump would have been convicted of over the course of his life if he'd had run-of-the-mill lawyers like a normal person would.

Dozens?  

Hundreds?  

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 12, 2024, 09:06:44 PM
There have been many special counsel appointments. Jack Smith pointed out several made by William Barr. Trump made similar arguments about Robert Mueller, himself a special counsel.
You did not just make that comparison….

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 12, 2024, 09:46:00 PM
You did not just make that comparison….


???
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 12, 2024, 10:14:43 PM
 Again, it's pathological. He fears "losing" so much that he can't fathom that any election he loses isn't rigged.


Don't forget, he preemptively said the election he accidently won was rigged, too.  People seem to forget that.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2024, 07:39:18 AM
and we all get to listen to 4 more years of Trump because Joe Biden doesn't have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 07:44:55 AM
This will be a wild election cycle, I suspect, if anyone can beat Trump at this point, it's Trump (IMHO).  Biden may run another quasi-basement campaign and let DJT self destruct with suburban moms.  On the other hand, it seems possible that the convention delegates will abstain or something in the first round for Biden and open the show.

And if Biden has another "weak" performance in public .......

Trump could win by simply SHUTTING UP.  As if ...

Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2024, 07:46:34 AM
and we all get to listen to 4 more years of Trump because Joe Biden doesn't have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US.
The revisionist history is Hillary arious.  

“ Russian interference!”  😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 07:48:58 AM
I believe the Russians attempt to interfere in nearly all Western elections.  Their intent, I believe, is more to sew mistrust in any outcome than to support one candidate, usually, though they appear to have pumped a lot of money to the Greens in Germany over time.  That would make a ton of sense for them.

I wonder how much NG German is buying from Russia even now (in winter).
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2024, 08:39:39 AM
and we all get to listen to 4 more years of Trump because Joe Biden doesn't have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US.
That’s the popular take. 

But, remember- Biden was behind in the polls BEFORE the debate, and then the cover up of his incredible cognitive decline was exposed.

Also, he cut a deal with the far left to get the nomination in 2020, and he has given them nearly everything they want these last 3 years. 

That is why he was already behind. 

They have done a great job of taking the focus off of his highly unpopular policies. 

If they can replace him, they are in good position because they have the ability to say “ look over here” and make the vote about something other than policy. 

This comical cycle has only just begun. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2024, 08:42:44 AM
One very useful attribute for a President is being articulate.  A President can better LEAD by framing issues and proposed solutions in an articulate manner.  It's more readily accepted.  I used to think Jimmy Carter gave good speeches, if you read them, but they were not very good if you listened to him.  Obama, to me, was the reverse, he sounded good, but if I read the text, I'd often wonder what point he was making.

Another of course is being liked, admired, respected, etc., and having a decent popularity figure.  Were I President, I'd list three things, and focus on getting them done, visibly, and when one was done, I'd add another, etc.  And I'd use the Bully Pulpit, a lot.  I think I could present my case reasonably well on key issues and that would be more likely to drag Congress along and thereby get a thing done, maybe not exactly as I wished, but fairly close.

Anyway .....
Say again?

Drink!
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2024, 08:43:32 AM
And yet our two choices for the office are the guy whose best day is incomprehensible verbal diarrhea that sprays all over the place and stinks, and the guy who can't string together a sentence that proves he knows who and where he is.
Vice President Trump begs to differ.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2024, 08:44:26 AM
Say again?

Drink!
😂😂

they clearly taught him that when he gets confused, just say the word “anyway”
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 08:44:48 AM
I think Harris would do better than Biden.  It would instantly eliminate the major issue in question (and bring up some lesser ones that could be countered).  She has some, well, flaws, that perhaps could be remedied with coaching.

I can't see a downside, other than finding the process to get there.  They need/have to turn attention back to DJT.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2024, 08:45:43 AM
I think Harris would do better than Biden.  It would instantly eliminate the major issue in question (and bring up some lesser ones that could be countered).  She has some, well, flaws, that perhaps could be remedied with coaching.

I can't see a downside, other than finding the process to get there.  They need/have to turn attention back to DJT. 
Bingo.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2024, 08:50:19 AM
That's all true. The Democrats could run a cognitively limited old man and the Republicans could run lh320's cat, and both would have a certain floor of safe electoral votes.

However if the Democrats run a cognitively limited old man, they may still be within theoretical "striking distance", but not against any competent Republican candidate. In fact, the only reason anyone thinks Biden might still have any sort of chance is that the Republicans have nominated Donald Trump. They're relying on anti-Trump voters, not pro-Biden voters. (Which admittedly worked in 2020.)
(https://i.imgur.com/QnorCbg.png)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MaximumSam on July 13, 2024, 09:08:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QnorCbg.png)
Dems hoping votes will be counted, Republicans trying to prevent that
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 13, 2024, 09:09:57 AM
Dems hoping votes will be counted, Republicans trying to prevent that
True.  That box was probably in Venezuela. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 09:10:19 AM
Joe Biden allies present him as safer bet than Kamala Harris (thehill.com) (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4769373-biden-harris-democratic-ticket/)

I disagree obviously.  Biden will be under a microscope for any more gaffes or misstatements, it can only get worse for him.  He's a gaffe machine under the best conditions, and sounds weak and contrived, to me, at best ....  anyway ....

All that disappears the instant Harris is the candidate - and yes, some other things appear.  They are less than the "age" thing by far, and Joe himself has declared her qualified.

A rather large but usually split voting block is suburban women, and they'd favor her I think, probably 60-40.  Blacks would be energized.  The donors would be back on board.  Trump's major hope is they nominate Joe.

As President, I suspect Harris wouldn't be making decisions of any import.  Her staff would "run her" as a show pony in effect.  Maybe she could be coached to make decent cabinet appointments, but they'd probably mostly be show ponies and DEIs  anyway.





Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 09:12:14 AM
I personally have seen no compelling evidence the 2020 election was "stolen", here or elswhere.  I think the fake votes were no more than usual.

The absentee ballots here have safeguards that I thought were useful.  Ballot harvesting happens in nearly every election, and mostly impacts local outcomes.

Anyway, just my take.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 13, 2024, 09:25:23 AM
We have a Trump thread now.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 13, 2024, 09:42:53 AM
That is why he was already behind. 
Biden was behind IMHO largely because of inflation. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 09:54:53 AM
Polls show Democrats are right to panic about Biden (msnbc.com) (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/biden-trump-2024-polls-drop-out-rcna161348)

Polling averages aggregated by FiveThirtyEight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/) and RealClearPolitics (https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden) show Trump surged and Biden dipped significantly in national polls after the June 27 debate. The averages put Biden a few points behind Trump, which is not by any means insurmountable. But Biden should be trouncing Trump, a corrupt aspiring autocrat, one of the most unpopular people to ever run for presidential office and a man recently convicted of 34 felony counts and found liable for sexual abuse (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/found-liable-attack-trump-claims-e-jean-carroll-made-false-accusations-rcna142637). Around this time in their 2020 match-up, Biden was beating Trump by almost 10 points (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2020/national/). It’s also important to remember that in 2016 and 2020 (https://www.pewresearch.org/methods/2021/04/08/confronting-2016-and-2020-polling-limitations/) Trump outperformed the polls. That he’s consistently leading Biden this election cycle is alarming.

Pollsters at the Cook Political report  (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/new-polls-show-biden-slipping-further-behind-trump-in-critical-swing-states)changed the status of three battleground states (https://www.axios.com/local/atlanta/2024/07/11/joe-biden-down-ballot-races-effects-georgia) from toss-ups to “lean Republican” after the debate. And according to the combined data of the New York Times/Sienna College polls (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/nate-cohn-explains-how-bad-the-latest-polling-is-for-joe-biden), Biden is seeing an extraordinary dip — Trump now has not just his biggest lead over Biden in this election cycle, but his largest lead over a Democrat since his 2016 White House bid. New York Times chief political correspondent and poll guru Nate Cohn told The New Yorker in a recent interview (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/nate-cohn-explains-how-bad-the-latest-polling-is-for-joe-biden), “There are no precedents in recent memory for Presidents to have approval ratings like Biden’s who then go on to win re-election.”


Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: MrNubbz on July 13, 2024, 02:04:23 PM
Biden was behind IMHO largely because of inflation.
That and seemingly the narrative where people born males wanted to tinkle,change and compete with girls was ushered in with him. Oh and the treasonous horshit at the border as the people in power implimenting it live in their gated communities
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 13, 2024, 04:19:19 PM
That and seemingly the narrative where people born males wanted to tinkle,change and complete with girls was ushered in with him. Oh and the treasonous horshit at the border as ther people in power implimenting it live in their gated communities
Eh. I don't think there are many people who were "on the fence" regarding this election who are going to base their vote on how each candidate wants to treat trans people. And I think that issue is tied to general wokeness, which IMHO Biden has largely avoided.  

Immigration, on the other hand, probably DOES matter to those independents who were on the fence. I'll give you that. Still think inflation is a lot bigger of an issue to most of them though. 

A bigger issue would be the overturning of Roe. That's one that Trump is desperately trying to avoid being an anchor around his neck, in the same way that Biden doesn't want to be dragged down by immigration. 
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 04:42:51 PM
Trump brags about Roe.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 13, 2024, 05:02:26 PM
https://apnews.com/article/republicans-abortion-party-platform-trump-rnc-5561e857c5501df9864ab8ca666d8bc5


Quote
MILWAUKEE (AP) — The Republican National Committee moved Monday to adopt a party platform that reflects former President Donald Trump’s position opposing a federal abortion ban and ceding limits to states, omitting the explicit basis for a national ban for the first time in 40 years.

Trump imposed his priorities on the RNC’s platform committee as he seeks to steer clear during his campaign of strict abortion language, even while taking credit for setting up the 2022 reversal of Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court. Trump appointed three of the six justices who voted in the majority to overturn the 1973 precedent that established a national right to have an abortion.

I saw this story which is where I got that...
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 13, 2024, 05:07:04 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/04/trumps-false-claim-about-roe/


He tries to play both sides.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2024, 05:18:37 PM
it's what politicians do
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 13, 2024, 06:59:26 PM
https://www.factcheck.org/2024/04/trumps-false-claim-about-roe/


He tries to play both sides. 
Exactly. He wants credit from his base for getting rid of Roe, but knows a federal abortion ban is (and most state bans are) a losing issue at the ballot box so he doesn't want to scare people who care about such things into voting for the other guy based on a single issue.

The states that already are solidly in the tank for him are the only ones were getting rid of Roe is seen as a good thing. It's an issue that could be a decisive wedge issue going against him with independents in swing states, which he's trying to avoid.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 13, 2024, 08:50:07 PM
he has the mental capacity to avoid it?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: bayareabadger on July 13, 2024, 10:03:40 PM
That and seemingly the narrative where people born males wanted to tinkle,change and complete with girls was ushered in with him. Oh and the treasonous horshit at the border as ther people in power implimenting it live in their gated communities
I think that first one predated him. I also find it funny because if you designed a Dem in a lab who would be disconnected from that issue, it would probably looks something like that fella. But it seems unlikely someone super high profile on either side can outrun the more incendiary stuff these days. 

(The last part makes me chuckle because I have a friend who often snaps about the folks in "gates" communities and such. And yet I really hate the gate system in his large apartment complex)
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Honestbuckeye on July 14, 2024, 02:17:36 PM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrat-push-replace-biden-trump-assassination-attempt-presidents-allies-say-report


Biden allies say this ends the debate around Joe’s cognitive ability.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2024, 10:30:08 AM
if Joe trips and falls and sustains a minor injury - limps for a week = minor event

if Joe trips and breaks a hip and/or fractures a rib that punctures a lung - major injury = major event
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Temp430 on July 15, 2024, 10:43:13 AM
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrat-push-replace-biden-trump-assassination-attempt-presidents-allies-say-report


Biden allies say this ends the debate around Joe’s cognitive ability. 
That would be a good thing.  Best to have the people that made the bed sleep in it.
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2024, 12:01:07 PM
The shooting is in my view a major event because of the impact on so many things.  
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 15, 2024, 12:01:55 PM
When did Joe Biden get shot?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: FearlessF on July 15, 2024, 12:03:06 PM
what has changed or will change because of the shooting?

secret service will work harder?
limited public rallys for the campaign?
Title: Re: Does Joe Biden have the Mental Capacity to be the President of the US?
Post by: Cincydawg on July 15, 2024, 12:07:34 PM
One only needs to scan the media coverage to see it as a major event.  I'd like to think some accountability for the SS will happen, but somewhat doubt it.  Any time a protectee is shot or harmed or at risk is a major event in my view.

Politically, I think it plays well for Trump, slightly, and short term.  But it all hinges on what "major" means.