A month too early for this thread.Particularly now that we have next to zero idea what rosters look like year to year. Hell, a month from now is probably too early
Particularly now that we have next to zero idea what rosters look like year to year. Hell, a month from now is probably too earlyI know. Ohio State could be returning the best roster in the conference or starting a bunch of transfers from the MAC.
My annual schedule rant:In fairness, this schedule would have looked alot better if UCLA had lived up to their preseason hype (started as a top 25 team) and WVU was at least not utterly putrid.
There were two major problems with Ohio State's schedule in 2023/24: First, it was too weak. The Buckeyes ended up with the #43 SoS per KenPom. By comparison, UW was #3, PU was #4, MSU was #12, IA was #16. Second, attendance particularly at the buy games was pathetic.
The 2023/24 Ohio State schedule consisted of:
- 1 home game as part of a MTE (vs WMU)
- 1 1/2 of a H&H (vs aTm, tOSU goes to aTm in 2024/25)
- 2 neutral site MTE games (vs Bama, vs Santa Clara)
- 2 neutral site games (vs UCLA in ATL, vs WVU in CLE)
- 5 home buy games (Oakland, Merrimak, CMU, Miami-OH, NOLA)
When I first started watching NCAA hoops, IU was right there with Kansas, Dook, UNC, Kentucky and UCLA among CBB royalty.In the era of NIL, UCLA is toast. Creighton and Butler have more robust NIL programs
Now there are only blue teams in that royalty, and UCLA is slipping.
In the era of NIL, UCLA is toast. Creighton and Butler have more robust NIL programsAny UCLA fan who thinks UCLA is going to compete in the B1G in CFB and CBB is delirious.
In fairness, this schedule would have looked alot better if UCLA had lived up to their preseason hype (started as a top 25 team) and WVU was at least not utterly putrid.True and I'll add that aTm dropped from top-25 when played to barely making the tournament. That said, the buy games were mostly atrocious. NET, opponent, KenPom:
True and I'll add that aTm dropped from top-25 when played to barely making the tournament. That said, the buy games were mostly atrocious. NET, opponent, KenPom:I’d assume Dayton would want that? Right?
- 126 Oakland 137
- 213 Merrimack 215
- 238 Miami-OH 256
- 265 CMU 279
- 340 NOLA 340
Miami-OH is obviously one of the "Ohio" teams but they were the worst one. A random group of the "Ohio" teams would have been superior to the ridiculously bad buy game opponents that tOSU actually played.
- 23 Dayton 32
- 108 Akron 116
- 130 Toledo 139
- 139 OhioU 143
- 171 Kent 172
- 196 Cleveland State 189
- 228 BGSU 241
- 238 Miami-OH 256
Dayton might turn that offer down, they could be replaced by:
- 153 Wright State 161
UW stopped playing Milwaukee and Green Bay in favor of schools from other states.I think Milwaukee had something to do with issues with a former AD (and the treatment of Rob Jeter).
They always play Market. Don't see that one ever going away.
I think Milwaukee had something to do with issues with a former AD (and the treatment of Rob Jeter).Some bad blood with GB and UWM for sure.
Not sure about GB, but they played through last year.
I hear Team 4 has a heck of recruiting class lined up.Fear the 4!
Next year they are doing this one.Went to a conference there. It remains very 1930 fancy. I can't imagine paying those prices on my own dime. The golf courses are legit, but the hotel itself is EXTREMELY outdated
(https://i.imgur.com/QTaNlK4.png)
I’d assume Dayton would want that? Right?To be clear on what I'd be offering if I were the tOSU AD, it would eight games over 16 years with seven of them in Columbus. I would offer to pay for the seven home games but I don't know that Dayton would accept a 7:1 A:H ratio. I think the MAC schools, CSU, and WSU would because their choice would be that or nothing.
Some bad blood with GB and UWM for sure.From a competitive standpoint I understand this sentiment but I was trying to look at this through the eyes of an AD, specifically an AD at Ohio State with a ~20k arena to sell BB tickets in. From that standpoint, I'd much rather host an Ohio School than Merrimak (Massachusetts) NOLA (Louisiana) simply because I assume that a local school would bring some spectators along. Actually, if I were tOSU's AD, I would probably force that issue by making part of the payment (from tOSU) payable in tickets to the game.
No need to play them. It's a no-win for the flagship.
Both of Michigan's PGs are in the portal, and their top recruit decommitted.Definitely the plight of not having a coach on portal day. With OSU quickly hiring Diebs, I guess I'll just move all my coach thoughts over to Michigan. Niko Medved of CSU has been mentioned - they play tomorrow night.
Granted whoever they hire could bring in a legit top 25 roster next year.
Definitely the plight of not having a coach on portal day. With OSU quickly hiring Diebs, I guess I'll just move all my coach thoughts over to Michigan. Niko Medved of CSU has been mentioned - they play tomorrow night.Iowa State's coach as well as Beilein has also been mentioned. If Beilein left 5 years ago because he was sick of the system I can't imagine he has enjoyed the developments since.
Iowa State's coach as well as Beilein has also been mentioned. If Beilein left 5 years ago because he was sick of the system I can't imagine he has enjoyed the developments since.That would be a great hire, though I've heard his buyout is pretty large. Plus he and his wife are pretty connected to Iowa State, and honestly what can he do at Michigan that he isn't doing already?
If they can poach TJ, that would be a slam dunk IMO
That would be a great hire, though I've heard his buyout is pretty large. Plus he and his wife are pretty connected to Iowa State, and honestly what can he do at Michigan that he isn't doing already?Make more money
Some bad blood with GB and UWM for sure.Is there a root to the issue with GB?
No need to play them. It's a no-win for the flagship.
Went to a conference there. It remains very 1930 fancy. I can't imagine paying those prices on my own dime. The golf courses are legit, but the hotel itself is EXTREMELY outdatedThis is a very concise and accurate review.
I love UW playing, and beating, Market.Cincy - NO, for the same reason that
@847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) doesn't like playing "Market". [/list]
Is there a root to the issue with GB?Gard does not like the GB head coach at all.
I don't totally mind it. It makes some goodwill. If UW is bad enough to lose to most GB squads, that's on them. If GB is good enough to upset UW, good for them, I suppose. I think the last win GB had against UW got their coach the Toledo job.
To clarify, this post isn't meant to be too specific to Diebler and I'm not really advocating for higher salaries for coaches. My point is more about the structures of contracts because it makes a LOT of sense to me to lean more toward bonuses. If the team sucks and/or you have to fire a coach you don't have to pay the bonuses and if the team has a lot of success you don't mind paying them because you've got plenty of money laying around anyway. If I were AD, I'd be all in for increasing the bonuses by an order of magnitude in exchange for a slight reduction in base.Pretty sure every AD in the country would like to keep coaching compensation performance-driven by offering lower base salary and higher bonuses. But coaches typically have the negotiating upper hand. The coaches and agents have largely (by their behavior) made those sorts of contracts impossible--they won't accept those contracts. They want the guaranteed money, and they'll walk away if they don't get it. In fact, I think the unspoken assumption is that if they're not offered the larger salary and guarantee, it's almost an affront by the school calling the coach not worth it.
Pretty sure every AD in the country would like to keep coaching compensation performance-driven by offering lower base salary and higher bonuses. But coaches typically have the negotiating upper hand. The coaches and agents have largely (by their behavior) made those sorts of contracts impossible--they won't accept those contracts. They want the guaranteed money, and they'll walk away if they don't get it. In fact, I think the unspoken assumption is that if they're not offered the larger salary and guarantee, it's almost an affront by the school calling the coach not worth it.I realize the negotiating power issue and you can see it in Diebler's salary which is quite low by B1G standards. This is from an IU fan site published in August, B1G BB HC salaries:
The Diebler situation is uncommon, especially for a big school like OSU, because he's being given a chance despite being unproven. He doesn't have any real negotiation power here--he wants the job and nobody else is going to offer him $2.5M. If he's gotta get a HC job at some school in an auto-bid league they're not going to be paying him $2.5M.
Rest assured that if he has 2-3 years of success leading to a contract extension, it's going to be more coach-friendly with guaranteed salary. Because if he is successful at OSU but underpaid, he'd be someone that any power conference school in the country would be looking at poaching him in a coaching search.
Assuming this site is right (and I think even a Purdue alum will trust an IU site for salary info), Diebler will be the second lowest paid B1G coach ahead of only Ben Johnson.Yes, he'll be the second-lowest paid. So what? Everyone on both sides knows that if he performs, he'll rocket up that list quickly. It's not like OSU is known for being stingy.
I guess the whole thing just seems like a bit of a farce to me. Diebler's maximum bonus is $500k but realistically, if he wins an NC, he'll get a LOT more than that.
Yes, he'll be the second-lowest paid. So what? Everyone on both sides knows that if he performs, he'll rocket up that list quickly. It's not like OSU is known for being stingy.This is all true. It just seems kinda funny because the only figure in the contract that is even conditionally relevant is the $2.5M base for five years.
Honestly if I were his agent, I might have argued to make those performance bonuses short of the NC a little bigger, because they only get paid out IF he's successful. And realistically they're not going to pay out that NC bonus anyway, so might as well make it $1M. It'd be worth it but it's not going to happen.
But if he's successful, it'll be a moot point in 2-3 years anyway. If he wins an NC, it'll be reflected in his extension, not his bonus.
Gard does not like the GB head coach at all.I forgot there was a recruit thing last year too.
I forgot there was a recruit thing last year too.Yep. Kid was supposed to transfer to UW and ended up at GB. Can't remember his name but I think he was a guard?
Yep. Kid was supposed to transfer to UW and ended up at GB. Can't remember his name but I think he was a guard?Point guard. Would have been like a better version of McGee. I understand why the kid did it. He probably committed to Wisconsin too quickly, and his older brother is on staff at Green Bay. But it didn’t sound like the kid handled it well.
UW is strong in football NIL. Not so much in hoops. The $750K number is real, based on a number of solid sources.
There's no way that's true. I mean if Ole Miss is offering $800k, good on them, but I would imagine every serious school is at least near the $2 million range
Meechie Johnson is in the portal with some rumors he will come back to OSU. A bit weird, since they could still return their starting guards.I don't really get it. I watched a couple of their games this year, and he seems like the same guy he was here, just with more volume. He averaged about 14 PPG, but had a low FG% and still seemed fairly erratic to my eye test.
Point guard. Would have been like a better version of McGee. I understand why the kid did it. He probably committed to Wisconsin too quickly, and his older brother is on staff at Green Bay. But it didn’t sound like the kid handled it well.He's in the portal again. I hate this.
he ended up having quite a nice season for the Phoenix. Would have been such a bonus for the Wisconsin lineup that I honestly just understand the choice.
I don't really get it. I watched a couple of their games this year, and he seems like the same guy he was here, just with more volume. He averaged about 14 PPG, but had a low FG% and still seemed fairly erratic to my eye test.OTOH, he was the leading scorer on a very good USCe team so maybe?
I don't really get it. I watched a couple of their games this year, and he seems like the same guy he was here, just with more volume. He averaged about 14 PPG, but had a low FG% and still seemed fairly erratic to my eye test.I don’t think that’s wrong. They had two other pretty good gardens, including a Minnesota transfer who took a leap. Nice stable of Big‘s, OK enough wings. Basically, he could do a lot of the things he was good at and had a lot of support for the stuff he wasn’t good at.
Sounds like Louisville looking hard at Josh Schertz of Indiana State. Relevant to me because I'm currently in Louisville, and he's the guy I wanted OSU to hire.Would be quite a thing if the two biggest job openings went to an alum, and an in state mid major coach, while Indiana decoded to ride it out with Mike Woodson
UGA somehow edged Ohio State in the "NIT", which of course is, well, whatever. This was at times a decent UGA squad, certainly not great, but "OK", maybe they rely on 3s too much at times, I watched them rarely. You'd think UGA should be more competitive at the sport.It was a fun game to watch, even streakier than most BB games. It seemed like each time one team seemed to be firmly in control either they would get cold or the other team would get hot to the point that the team firmly in control switched. Rinse and repeat until the 79-77 final.
Polzin: AD hasn't lost faith in Wisconsin coach Greg Gard (badgerextra.com) (https://badgerextra.com/commentary/columns/polzin/wisconsin-basketball-coach-greg-gard-chris-mcintosh/article_737b6bf6-ec7c-11ee-9cc5-43748c77bdeb.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_BadgerExtra)Just saw that Gus Yalden announced to the portal as well. Was Wahl using his extra covid year or is he gone?
“I think Greg puts us in the best position to be successful into the future,” McIntosh said. “I think Greg has a great understanding of what’s needed in the continued evaluation of our program to get there. It’s a program that’s been evolving with the times that we live in, and I’m excited about some of the things that he and I talked about for the future and the evolution of our program.”
Dain Dainja in the portal.
Mercer wing Jake Davis has committed to Illinois.
Bronny James in the portal...Buckeyes?
29.0% Dale Bonner 27-93, returning
https://twitter.com/BronnyJamesJr/status/1775337991440900324?s=20 (https://twitter.com/BronnyJamesJr/status/1775337991440900324?s=20)Kind of a fun idea, but he barely played on a bad USC team. Not sure he would add much beyond hype. Buckeyes are in good shape at guard and need to add a frontcourt piece.
I thought he was out of eligibility?
From what I've heard, this is all we know for sure for the Buckeye roster:According to the Worldwide Leader he has played in four seasons:
Dale Bonner - out of eligibility
Still waiting for confirmation on whether the other guys are returning or portaling. Also, some chance that portal guy may re-join the roster, but not counting on it.
According to the Worldwide Leader he has played in four seasons:I think you are. He was a D-II transfer.So now I'm lost. Does the one game played in 19-20 count as a year or do they have the same new rule as football where you can play a few games and not lose a year?
- 1 game in 19-20
- 31 games in 21-22
- 29 games in 22-23
- 36 games in 23-24
Then there is the COVID year question because the guys who played in 20-21 get an extra year, right?
Maybe I'm reading something wrong.
I think you are. He was a D-II transfer.That is it. I forgot about the D-II. Otherwise he's been in college five years and played four which ordinarily would be the end but I *THINK* the COVID year would give him one more.
So he’s been in college six years, played five. He is definitely out of eligibility.
For Ohio State, I think the biggest question mark leading into the 2024-2025 campaign is where the three point shots are going to come from. Here are Ohio State's highest percentage three point shooters from the 2023-2024 campaign:Reposted with edits to reflect that Bonner is out of eligibility.
- 45.2% Scotty Middleton 28-62, transferring
- 43.3% Jamison Battle 91-210, exhausted eligibility
- 42.9% Bowen Hardman 9-21, transferring
- 33.3% Bruce Thornton 58-174, returning
- 29.0% Dale Bonner 27-93, exhausted eligibility
- 28.4% Roddy Gayle Jr. 29-102, returning
- 26.7% Taison Chatman 4-15, returning
- 25.0% Zed Key 3-12, returning
- 15.0% Devin Royal 3-20, returning
- 11.8% Evan Mahaffey 2-17, returning
- 0.0% Kalen Etzler, 0-4, returning
- 0.0% Felix Okpara, 0-6, returning
Meechie Johnson who is returning from South Carolina shot 32.1% last year for the Gamecocks at 60-187.
The four above in bold are not returning. Between them, Battle, Middleton, Bonner, and Hardman accounted for more than half of the team's three point attempts and more than three out of five of the team's made three pointers. That, to me, is the biggest hit to the roster.
The two freshman additions for next season include 6'6" 3* Forward Colin White who will likely contribute nothing from long range and 6'2" 4* Point Guard Juni Mobley who might.
In the modern game I think it is a near necessity to have a couple guys who can reliably hit better than a third of their threes. There is a non-remote possibility that some two of Thornton, Johnson, Mobley, Gale, and Chatman could become those guys.
The next question I'd be concerned about is depth at the 5. For next year I think that the combination of Okpara and Key should be fine. Okpara was the B1G's second leading shot blocker last year behind only some no-name from Purdue (LoL). My concern here is two things:
- Depth: If Okpara and Key both get in foul trouble, is Austin Parks a serviceable Center at this level?
- Beyond 2024-2025: Key will use up his eligibility this year and Okpara could play his way into the NBA so . . . Then what? Can Parks be the starter in 2025-2026? Even if he can, we'll need a backup for him.
Roddy Gayle to the portalUgh.
Ugh.3 point shooters are like relief pitchers. They are a dime a dozen because year to year volitility is high
That makes five of the 23-24 team's most accurate 3pt shooters gone.
This is good, so long as the replacement is an ace recruiter, which Oliver wasn't.Nepotism in coaching may work sometimes but it can also be a catastrophe. The Iowa/Ferentz situation was similar to JoPa hiring his son at Penn State earlier.
Rumors of Gard hiring his brother. That would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
This is good, so long as the replacement is an ace recruiter, which Oliver wasn't.It's fake news.
Rumors of Gard hiring his brother. That would be a huge mistake in my opinion.
M. Sisoko (MSU) now in the portal. I had really hoped this trend (having to replace half your team every year) was going to be a short-lived thing, but I'm guessing the wild wild west is here to stay.Didn't really make any sense for him to stay
M. Sisoko (MSU) now in the portal. I had really hoped this trend (having to replace half your team every year) was going to be a short-lived thing, but I'm guessing the wild wild west is here to stay.Honestly, and ELA can tell me I'm wrong, but him leaving seems like the kind of space where all this portal-ing is pretty fine.
LINCOLN, Neb. (KLKN) – Nebraska men’s basketball is adding a 6-foot-10 forward to its roster next season.Interesting to add him with Mast having more eligibility. Could be an interesting pairing.
North Dakota State’s Andrew Morgan announced Monday on Instagram that he is transferring to Nebraska.
<Grillrat and other Boilermakers have entered the chat...>Definitely a different team next year without Edey. Lance Jones is done, I think everyone else could come back, though not sure guys like Ethan Morton would come back for a fifth year or not. Still should be really good - the junior class is strong with Smith, Loyer, and Kaufman-Renn.
Definitely a different team next year without Edey. Lance Jones is done, I think everyone else could come back, though not sure guys like Ethan Morton would come back for a fifth year or not. Still should be really good - the junior class is strong with Smith, Loyer, and Kaufman-Renn.Purdue actually has a large, decently ranked class coming in (13th in the nation), but we are actually over-signed by one at the moment. I had originally thought that Gillis would be transferring (he has a Covid year he could use, I think), but it wouldn't surprise me if Morton or Furst ended up leaving instead considering their minutes dropped dramatically over the last month (Morton played about 10 minutes and Furst played about 2 minutes the entire tournament).
Purdue's Morton to the portal. Can't say I blame him.I was shocked he was still there. The highest rated Western PA recruit since DeJuan Blair, but he never looked the part. Western PA basketball ain't great, and most of the high recruits go to prep school. Credit to him, he stayed at his public HS, and had a shot at a state title, before COVID shut it down, but you can also see that maybe he didn't face the best competition in Western PA public school. The best Western PA public school kid this year is headed to Lehigh, and is considered a reach, but he's a legacy recruit.
Decent defender, but a liability on offense. Was a decent 3 point shooter his first two years, but lost his confidence and has barely shot at all this year.
Mason Gillis to the portal tooHis porn star NIL ran out?
His porn star NIL ran out?????
His barbed wire tattoos. I haven't seen that on a dude outside of 1990s porn stars and low card WCW wrestlersYou apparently watched alot more '90's porn than I did. NTTAWWT. ;)
You apparently watched alot more '90's porn than I did. NTTAWWT. ;)I was a teen. I was in my porn and WCW prime
For the record though, apparently it is making a comeback...
Barbed wire tattoos are back from the 90s - and they're all over Instagram - Daily Star (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/real-life/barbed-wire-tattoos-back-90s-25877997)
Morton and Gillis both using Covid years, both great dudes. Likely headed to Notre Dame is my prediction to be with Shrews. We are over signed by 1 and had no room for them to stay for their Covid year. Thought Gillis might call it and get on with his life, but I guess not.Gillis could absolutely contribute at ND. Figured Morton would transfer down a level.
Figured Morton would transfer down a level.I'm not sure he's a Mike Woodson type of player.
Kentucky going from Calipari to Mark Pope. All rightApparently they never went after Billy Donovan. I just wanted to see Billy Donovan coach Kentucky against Florida on Billy Donovan Court
Kentucky going from Calipari to Mark Pope. All rightPope did play there, so that's the connection.
Pope did play there, so that's the connection.$27.5 million over five years to coach basketball? Hey, say all the mean things about me you want
In today's landscape, who wants that job?
Quite honestly, who wants any CFB or CBB job? You have to be a little crazy to want to work in that environment.
Gillis could absolutely contribute at ND. Figured Morton would transfer down a level.I don't totally know what to make of Gillis because he seemed most optimized at a place like Purdue.
Pope did play there, so that's the connection.Thousands of people want those jobs. Many thousands.
In today's landscape, who wants that job?
Quite honestly, who wants any CFB or CBB job? You have to be a little crazy to want to work in that environment.
you can ask for anything(https://i.imgur.com/A6zmguH.png)
start high and let the negotiations begin
Minnesota has a kid who was just granted an 8th yearand when he is done we are not going to be able to call him Dr.
Kentucky going from Calipari to Mark Pope. All right
Weird. I thought only Purdue got big guys.(https://media.tenor.com/vJaMkAXzbToAAAAM/alreadygotone-monty.gif)
Buckeyes get Aaron Bradshaw from the portal, formerly of Kentucky. 7'2'' center who was a top five recruit a year ago. He pretty much sucked last year, but definitely a big departure from the Holtmann era in the type of guys they are targeting.Smart gamble by them.
Smart gamble by them.Yeah not bad for the backup center. I thought he might look at Indiana, but they got Oumar Ballo from Arizona today.
Yeah not bad for the backup center. I thought he might look at Indiana, but they got Oumar Ballo from Arizona today.Apparently for $1.2 million
geez, that's as much as a starting QB in the B1GMaybe even one in the Big Ten East
Not a chance. I just read Louisville offered him $1.4 Mil.Land of the free. Remember when kids were worth millions of dollars and schools tried to pay them with meal plans? That said, I'm not sure Chucky Hepburn is worth that squeeze.
He'll need some of that money to cover up the large Badger tattoo on his arm.
Many people wanted this shit (paying players) to happen, including some here. I hope you/they are happy.
B1G CFB51 board getting closer to a being a cooking/travel/news message board every day.
Land of the free. Remember when kids were worth millions of dollars and schools tried to pay them with meal plans? That said, I'm not sure Chucky Hepburn is worth that squeeze.I do remember the Cadillac meal plans.
they still get all that and now some added cash!Salary caps have to be collectively bargained
should be a cap
$50K on top of the other perks should be enough for a college kid to get by for a year
And there it is. Chucky is gone. My guess is MSU.If it's $1.4 million, it ain't MSU. They are already out on Trey Townsend because of the price tag, which is less than $1.4 million
(https://i.imgur.com/mXsqn5Z.png)
I'm done with college hoops. Fuck it.
Not a chance. I just read Louisville offered him $1.4 Mil.Paying the players isn't the issue. Removing the transfer sit out rule is. If they were worried that their own eligibility rules don't hold up in court, what's keeping a kid from playing in college forever. Obviously not the stars, but guys like a Cassius Winston?
He'll need some of that money to cover up the large Badger tattoo on his arm.
Many people wanted this shit (paying players) to happen, including some here. I hope you/they are happy.
B1G CFB51 board getting closer to a being a cooking/travel/news message board every day.
Rumblings are $800k from Louisville.I still think he ends up at MSU with his Omaha buddy.
I’m a bit less irked than I could be. I’m kind of impressed that is out there for a player like him.
We’ve come a long way from coaches telling kids they’re replaceable.
I still think he ends up at MSU with his Omaha buddy.Why wouldn’t Louisville just toss in another $800k for the other fella?
Matt Rhule says he prefers NFL Free AgencyIt makes sense that he would.
after the player signs, the contract is out there for everyone to see
an agent asks for 1.4 but then the player signs for $800K, you know what the actual price was
the shady agents get a reputation
nothing in NIL is above the table or public knowledge
It makes sense that he would.Plus, collective bargaining and all. Allowing the players to unionize is the only thing that can save this.
They’ve got a cap and great handle on leverage in all this. Plus the perceived penalty for owners leaning cheaper is much lower.
Why wouldn’t Louisville just toss in another $800k for the other fella?I guess they could. But is he worth it?
Rumors are that everyone has Plus, collective bargaining and all. Allowing the players to unionize is the only thing that can save this.They hung onto the amateurism bit too long. Tying student athlete rules to that of regular students was a disaster when people outside the system took a look at it.
And I stand by that the NCAA should be allowed to set their own rules for eligibility to play, without hampering freedom of movement and freedom to earn. You put no rails on NIL, but set it at 4 years and done, and you sit out if you transfer. Allow unlimited transfers, and unlimited redshirt years. If you want to take 8 years to get through college, go for it. That seems like a fine solution to me. The funny thing is that the transfer portal was to keep giving the players everything other than getting paid, and then they eventually got that, and the transfer portal made it even easier.
I think what eventually puts guardrails on this is the fact that the schools get pissed that donors money is going directly to the players, rather than a donation to the school to have a weight room named after them.
Felix Okpara to the portal. Feels messy in ColumbusI'm not totally surprised.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1782065353129877914do you attribute this more to following the money or are there really that many bad fits after one season?
SI's Kevin Sweeney gave the Ohio state hire of Diebler a D. LOLI can't think of many dumber exercises than grading hires at the time they are made
(https://i.imgur.com/GqbVTLK.png)Out of curiosity, I looked up the games in the "February swoon" where they went 2-6 and Storr's points in each of those 6 losses was 28, 14, 20, 14, 21, and 14. In every one of those games, he was either the leading scorer or second leading scorer (and usually only by 1 point under the leader).
I hope Illinois gets drilled with this, and that Storr is declared ineligible.They won’t, and the person who wrote that is a fanboy dink.
(https://i.imgur.com/MLVRZL8.png)
All 15 players on the All-Big East 1st, 2nd and HM teams are gone. Either portal, Draft, or out of eligibility
Gillis could absolutely contribute at ND. Figured Morton would transfer down a level.Morton to Colorado State. That makes more sense.
So, UW now has 3 transfers coming. All are from mid-major schools and came either cheap or free.Hmm, didn’t see the reporting about the price tag. Interesting.
Isn't Outkick like the NY Post for sports? It's not full on National Enquirer "bat boy lives", but it's clearly just click bait?It's a weird sort of beast.
Hmm, didn’t see the reporting about the price tag. Interesting.Rivals.
Honestly, this is so hard to follow. To other tOSU fans, do I have this right:I think that is right. They are supposedly still recruiting so they must have one spot left. I'm not sure what to expect.
Used up eligibility:Transferred:
- Jamison Battle
- Dale Bonner
- Owen Spencer (walk on)
- Felix Okpara - Tennessee
- Roddy Gayle Jr - Michigan
- Scotty Middleton - Seton Hall
- Zed Key - Dayton
- Bowen Hardman - Akron
Returning:Incoming:
- Bruce Thornton, 6-2 G will be a JR, 4* in 2022 class
- Devin Royal, 6-6 F will be a SO, 4* in 2023 class
- Evan Mahaffey, 6-6 G will be a JR, transfer from PSU
- Colby Baumann, 6-3 G will be a Jr, walk on from Houston via IMG
- Taison Chatman, 6-4 G will be a SO, 4* in 2023 class
- Austin Parks, 6-10 C will be a SO, 3* in 2023 class
- Kalen Etzler, 6-8 F will be a JR, 3* in 2021 class
I *THINK* they have one roster slot available because Baumann is a walk-on but I could be wrong.
- Meechie Johnson, 6-1 G will be a SR, 4* in 2020 class, transferred to USCe, returning
- Sean Stewart, 6-8 PF will be a SO, 5* to Dook in 2023, transfer
- Aaron Bradshaw, 7-1 C will be a SO, 5* to Kentucky in 2023, transfer
- Micah Parrish, 6-6 SF will be a SR, 1* to SDSU but 3* as a transfer
- Juni Mobley, 6-2 PF will be a FR, 4* from Utah
- Colin White, 6-6 SF will be a FR, 3* from Ottawa, OH
https://www.insidethehall.com/2024/05/10/an-early-look-at-where-each-big-ten-team-stands-in-bart-torviks-projections-for-the-2024-25-season/I'll ignore Northwestern and all the teams from Wisconsin through Penn State because they aren't in the CBS top-26 but they also aren't in the top-26 of Torvik's rankings so we really don't know if Torvik/CBS concur exactly or differ wildly.
Way too early but it is the offseason in both FB and BB so, from an IU site, Torvik's rankings based on rosters are being updated in real time with all the changes so here are the B1G teams with their national ranks:
- 10 UCLA - 18
- 11 Purdue - 12
- 19 Michigan State - 26
- 21 Indiana - 17
- 23 USC
- 27 Michigan
- 31 Rutgers - 22
- 32 Northwestern
- 33 Ohio State - 14
- 36 Wisconsin
- 38 Nebraska
- 44 Oregon
- 45 Maryland
- 51 Iowa
- 56 Illinois
- 74 Washington
- 82 Minnesota
- 92 Penn State
Long time Iowa women's basketball head coach Lisa Bluder has announced she doesn't feel like dealing with life post-Caitlin.FIFY
Long time Iowa women's basketball head coach Lisa Bluder has announced she doesn't feel like dealing with life post-Caitlin.Lol, Bluder is probably both spoiled getting to coach Caitlin Clark for 4 years, and also exhausted with all the extra media attention and sold out crowds that went with the back to back runs to the NCAA championship game.
FFY
I think the randomness is across the board, whether you are bringing in transfers or returning a bunch of dudes. MSU was rated last year not based on talent, but by having good talent, that had played together. It didn't matter. They performed about exactly to their talent. They were a good, not nearly great, team. Ultimately I think it comes down to college superstars, 3 point shooting, and rim protection. There is always some variance, but I think the best teams are the teams than can excel in those areas, and have (give or take 3 point shooting) the least variance. Obviously we are talking regular season success, because nobody can predict postseason success even in March, let alone nowI'll add that the randomness has always been higher in BB than FB simply because the impact of one individual is so much higher in BB.
FIFYI mean, she’s been a head coach for like 40 years.
Gottlieb has ZERO coaching experience. Hiring him is definitely a gamble. On the other hand, other than maybe Jay Bilas, I don’t consistently hear any media figure gush with more college basketball knowledge than Doug Gottlieb. From talking Xs/Os analysis or referencing endless historical data.Someone (maybe Matt Norlander) said he had head Gottlieb had been putting his name out there the last couple years, but, as you said, with zero head coaching experience, it took someone willing to take a risk
At 48 years old, I’m guessing Gottlieb figures he’s got the brains for coaching so why not give it a try on the court if there’s a school willing to give him a shot. Also hearing Gottlieb will also continue to host his Fox Sports radio show.
Torvik's rankings based on rosters are being updated in real time with all the changes so here are the B1G teams with their national ranks:
- 10 UCLA
- 11 Purdue
- 19 Michigan State
- 21 Indiana
- 23 USC
- 27 Michigan
- 31 Rutgers
- 32 Northwestern
- 33 Ohio State
- 36 Wisconsin
- 38 Nebraska
A couple days ago 247 did a B1G BB way too early Power Ranking for the 24/5 season (https://247sports.com/longformarticle/way-too-early-big-ten-ncaa-basketball-power-rankings-after-heated-transfer-portal-arms-race-ucla-indiana-purdue-oregon-michigan-illinois-231623061/). I was going to add it to the ones I did above and wondered if they had a national one that I could compare to. Well they do (https://247sports.com/longformarticle/college-basketballs-way-too-early-top-25-odds-for-2024-25-march-madness-kansas-unc-duke-cooper-flagg-alabama-nate-oats-230149733/), but get this:It's so much more than ever a crapshoot at this point. As I said earlier, MSU was ranked so high last year because they returned so much from a solid team, which is how it always worked because some of the teams ahead of you lost a lot. Now, you just keep refilling with transfers. MSU 2024 looked about the same as MSU 2023. Now it's anyone's guess as to how the portal teams pan out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But you will almost certainly stay behind the teams where it does work.
247's B1G rankings are WILDLY inconsistent with their own national rankings. It is even the same author so I really have no idea what is going on here.
What I have listed here is the B1G schools ordered by 247's B1G Power rankings and then their national ranking where applicable*:
- UCLA, #31 Nationally
- Indiana,
- Purdue, #12 Nationally
- Oregon,
- Michigan,
- Illinois, #27 Nationally
- Rutgers, #34 Nationally
- Maryland, #25 Nationally
- Nebraska, #21 Nationally
- Ohio State, #20 Nationally
- Michigan State,
- Iowa,
- Wisconsin, #18 Nationally
- Washington, #28 Nationally
- USC,
- Penn State,
- Northwestern,
- Minnesota,
*Applicable:
They only did a national top-25 so not all B1G schools are listed. Then they did "10 under consideration" so I just ranked those sequentially as 26-35 to get a national top-35.
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It would be GREAT for the league if Wisconsin was the 18th best team in the country and there were 12 B1G teams ahead of them but it would be terrible for the league if UCLA was the best team in the country and only 31st nationally, LoL.
It's so much more than ever a crapshoot at this point.I agree 100%. Based on what I assumed was going to return, I thought Ohio State would be a pretty good team. Solidly in the tournament but not a NC contender nor probably even a league title contender unless it was just a weird year where everybody stumbled.
Now it's anyone's guess as to how the portal teams pan out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.Ohio State has added multiple high-end blue chip 5* recruits (from Dook and Kentucky) plus some guys with great experience. If it "works", they are at least a League Title contender and possibly a contender to make it beyond the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament. OTOH, if it doesn't "work" they are a collection of guys who have little-or-no experience actually playing together, they could miss the Tournament for a third consecutive year.
It's hard to even think about 2025 in these times. The roster turnover alone makes it so.Yep, mercenaries.
Any team could have 13 different players than it does today.
College sports are no longer. They are just sports.
Lakers all in on poaching Hurley from UConnI rather like this shakeup, if it happens.
It's hard to even think about 2025 in these times. The roster turnover alone makes it so.Hell, Purdue's top rated 2024 recruit asked out of his NLI today. Who even knows what 2024 will look like
Any team could have 13 different players than it does today.
College sports are no longer. They are just sports.
Hell, Purdue's top rated 2024 recruit asked out of his NLI today. Who even knows what 2024 will look likeYes, word is he had a call with Painter and wanted assurances (assuming around playing time) and Painter doesn't give those assurances (Swanigan is the lone exception there) and he asked to be released and it was granted. Going to be interesting to see where he ends up and how this plays out for him in the future. His support system has strong ties to Purdue, he allegedly decommitted awhile back from Purdue without his support systems knowledge and they overrode him at that time. Kids gonna be kids.
Can't believe Hodges hasn't left yet.He represents an interesting sort of player to me in the new days of roster management.
Thoughts on the above:Are the four west coast schools always going to be a H&A with each other? I think that would make sense and would comprise the 6 required H&A games for each team in this format... I would wonder then if they'll make H&A "pods" that are closely geographic for other schools as well. IMHO all I care about as a Purdue fan is that IU should always be a H&A between the two teams. I would assume other schools with major rivalries (UM/OSU) would want the same.
First, it was a lot of keying in info so if I screwed one up please let me know and I'll adjust accordingly.
The first thing that jumped out to me is that they made the LA schools and the Pac-NW schools into "travel partners" essentially:Unless they are going to schedule these together as a "road swing", that doesn't really make sense to me.
- Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, and Wisconsin each visit both LA schools and host both Pac-NW schools.
- Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Nebraska, Northwestern, Purdue, and Rutgers each visit both Pac-NW schools and host both LA schools.
My thinking is that for a guy like @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) (Purdue alum, lives in LA), it would be better to have his school come to town once a year (alternating between USC and UCLA) rather than twice every other year. However, this makes sense if they are doing it to minimize travel costs by planning to have Purdue (example) play at Washington on a Thursday then at Oregon that weekend so Purdue only makes one trip to the Pac-NW for two games.
The problem with that, as I see it, is that it is pretty much the worst-case-scenario for people like @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) because not only will he only get to see his school locally every other year, the two times they do show up will be something like two days apart.
Thoughts on the above:For Wisconsin, NMSU should be MSU. I think that's the only one I saw out of whack.
If that's the case, having games a few days apart is likely BETTER for me to see my team at least once, because there's probably a higher chance that one of those days will fall on a weekend.I hadn't actually thought of that. This also would be relevant for people who are farther than you. Lets say I lived in Phoenix or Vegas which are roughly 7 and 5 hours from LA respectively. I'm obviously not driving to USC or UCLA after work for a weekday evening game but I *MIGHT* drive to LA for a weekend game.
Are the four west coast schools always going to be a H&A with each other?I have no idea. They obviously are for the 2024/25 season but who knows if that is permanent or just a "welcome".
I think that would make sense and would comprise the 6 required H&A games for each team in this format... I would wonder then if they'll make H&A "pods" that are closely geographic for other schools as well. IMHO all I care about as a Purdue fan is that IU should always be a H&A between the two teams. I would assume other schools with major rivalries (UM/OSU) would want the same.This makes sense to me as well but the League has been terrible about it over the years. I know that there have been years when PU/IU was NOT H/A. Same for tOSU/M. It is a little difficult for BB because M/MSU might be bigger to Michigan fans than M/tOSU in BB anyway.
For Wisconsin, NMSU should be MSU. I think that's the only one I saw out of whack.Oops, I fatfingered that one. It is fixed now.
That is going to make this thing more complicated to create and maintain. I'm migrating it from excel to google sheets so if anybody has an interest and is reasonably well acquainted with spreadsheets, I'd be happy to share it and thus share the time inputting things.Hmm, no takers huh?
I don't get why 15, and not 16.This is obviously pure speculation but my best guess is that it has to do with arena availability. I *THINK* they are concerned that if the arena has an NBA game or other event on Tuesday night they will not be ready for noon games on Wednesday. Thus, my GUESS is that the three Wednesday games will be sold as a single session. That is why I projected them at:
Seems odd that of the top 4 seeds, the only one guaranteed to play (1) a top 9 team and (2) a team that hasn't had to already play 2 games, is the #1 seed.
I think being the 2 seed is preferable to being the 1 seed under this format. Your first game might be against the #15 team, having already played 2 games, and worst case, you essentially have the same draw as the 1 seed. So you could be a lot better off, and at worst, you are basically the same
If that's the case, having games a few days apart is likely BETTER for me to see my team at least once, because there's probably a higher chance that one of those days will fall on a weekend.I thought of something else on this:
This is a weird thing, but it popped to mind when I was looking at the UW roster.I haven't thought about this deeply, but I can give you my gut reaction...
Basically, I’m not the biggest fan of when Wisconsin is “deep.” Like they played 11 guys last year, in part because the bottom 4-5 weren’t consistent or well-rounded enough to really lock down jobs. Sort of like you’d prefer one guy who can do lots of things compared to specialists. It seems like if you play five guys off the bench, in some ways it means you don’t trust a few, as compared to just three guys you know you can rely on.
I have some examples, but was wondering if I’m alone in this (just preferring a tight, really competent rotation of like 8 or so guys). The counterpoint would be Izzo, and I’d be interested in how @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) saw it. It seems like Tom always wants to test out three centers per half, plus some other folks.
I haven't thought about this deeply, but I can give you my gut reaction...I think that’s the right track. The 11 thing is interesting because it feels like it goes a few ways.
- If you play 6 guys, you don't trust your bench.
- If you play 11 guys, you don't trust your starters.
- If you play 8 guys, you've got guys on your bench that are talented enough that you play them to keep your starters from getting fatigued by playing too many minutes.
Something like that.
From 247Sometimes that writer posts stuff it just leaves me incredibly suspect. And for some reason that post does that.
I haven't checked in lately, but last I heard, we may or may not see Andrija Vukovic for a few months.Wisconsin signed the 20-year-old Serbian in May. The Badgers were hoping Vukovic would back up senior center Steven Crowl (https://247sports.com/Player/steven-crowl-46084324/) this season.From what I'm told, there's a lot of stuff that needs to happen before Vukovic can enter the states. The biggest obstacle right now is an English competency test.
Then, the Badgers also need to get Vukovic into school, which might be the biggest hurdle given he's been playing professional basketball the last few seasons.
As we all know, the university does not give an inch when it comes to enrollment for athletes.
If he even makes it to the team. Nobody knows anything really.I guess it’s the phrasing they were “hoping” he’d back up Crowl.
Ohio State released 10 of their 11 non-conference games and the conference opponents (though not the dates) have been released so Ohio State's 2024/25 schedule is now just one game from being complete:I'm confused, could someone who understands the NCAA BB scheduling rules better than I do please explain this to me:
I'm confused, could someone who understands the NCAA BB scheduling rules better than I do please explain this to me:Bump because I'm sure someone here knows the answer to this question and I'd like to know.
Last year Ohio State played 31 games before the B1G Tournament but that included a 3-game MTE (WMU, Bama, Santa Clara).
This seems to be the norm. Similarly, Purdue played 31 games before the B1G Tournament including a 3-game MTE (Gonzaga, Tennessee, Marquette).
I thought you had to play a MTE in order to play 31 regular season games. Is that incorrect?
I'm confused, could someone who understands the NCAA BB scheduling rules better than I do please explain this to me:Apparently GB, Campbell and Evansville are part of the loosest MTE I’ve ever seen.
Last year Ohio State played 31 games before the B1G Tournament but that included a 3-game MTE (WMU, Bama, Santa Clara).
This seems to be the norm. Similarly, Purdue played 31 games before the B1G Tournament including a 3-game MTE (Gonzaga, Tennessee, Marquette).
I thought you had to play a MTE in order to play 31 regular season games. Is that incorrect?
Apparently GB, Campbell and Evansville are part of the loosest MTE I’ve ever seen.Thanks!
I assume there’s a tactical value to turning three buy games into an MTE. But I don’t know what it is.I *THINK* that the NCAA rule doesn't actually allow 31 regular season BB games but rather 30 with some proviso that allows and extra one within an MTE. Ie, if they didn't have the MTE label on it then Ohio State would only be permitted to play 30 regular season BB games.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1818683102027563266Anyone go to this? Indy is most convenient location for me (though Vegas is certainly intriguing). Can you get a pass to watch all the games or does that get too expensive?
I've never been.I went twice.
I know @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) has been. He should know.
Updated with the final OOC game (Auburn in Atlanta on December 14:Above updated to include all 11 OOC games.
OOC:Conference:
- Mon 11/4 N, Texas in Vegas
- Mon 11/11 H, YSU
- Fri 11/15 A, aTm
- Tue 11/19 H, Evansville
- Fri 11/22 H, Campbell
- Mon 11/25 H, Green Bay
- Fri 11/29 H, Pitt
- Sat, 12/14 N, Auburn
- Tue 12/17 H, Valpo
- Sat 12/21 N, Kentucky at MSG in NYC
- Sun 12/29 H, Indiana State
- @ IU
- vs IU
- @ UMD
- vs UMD
- @ UNL
- vs UNL
- vs Iowa
- vs Michigan
- vs MSU
- vs NU
- vs OR
- vs RU
- vs WA
- @ IL
- @ MN
- @ PSU
- @ PU
- @ UCLA
- @ USC
- @ WI
Now here it is based on last year's NET rankings:
- #3 Purdue, Away
- #5 Auburn, Neutral
- #13 Illinois, Away
- #18 Kentucky, Neutral
- #21 Wisconsin, Away
- #24 MSU, Home
- #28 Indiana State, Home
- #30 Texas, Neutral
- #33 UNL, Away
- #33 UNL, Home
- #40 Pitt, Home
- #45 aTm, Away
- #53 NU, Home
- #59 OR, Home
- #62 Iowa, Home
- #69 Washington, Home
- #82 UMD, Away
- #82 UMD, Home
- #86 Penn State, Away
- #88 USC, Away
- #89 MN, Away
- #98 IU, Away
- #98 IU, Home
- #103 RU, Home
- #107 UCLA, Away
- #131 YSU, Home
- #133 M, Home
- #203 Evansville, Home
- #227 Green Bay, Home
- #302 Valpo, Home
- #304 Campbell
I'm reasonably happy with the OOC:There are PLENTY of in-state small-conference schools:
- Kentucky is obviously a blueblood.
- ISU was good last year (no idea what they have coming back).
- Texas is a good program for us to play (similarly situated in being a state 'flagship' that is clearly more into football but has a decent BB history).
- Pitt is a good program and local enough that they'll bring some fans and Buckeye fans can travel there for the return game next year.
- aTm is an ok series but I'd rather have Texas or Florida or Oklahoma.
- YSU makes sense because you need some cupcakes and they are in-state so they'll bring some fans. I knew a lot of YSU grads that were mostly all Ohio State fans nationally but YSU fans locally so for them, going to Columbus for a YSU/tOSU BB game is a win/win. Either their alma-mater wins or the school they root for wins.
- Evansville makes no sense to me. It is in Indiana which is a neighboring state but Evansville is in the far SW corner of Indiana so it is a 5+ hour drive that I'm guessing nearly none of their fans will make.
- Green Bay is worse than Evansville. Worse team and further away.
- Valparaiso is in the NW corner of Indiana, practically a Chicago suburb and 4.5 hours from Columbus so almost as far as Evansville and a worse team.
- Campbell is a horrible team and in NC so not remotely close enough to expect a meaningful number of their fans to make the trek to Columbus.
Dayton or Cincy might well demand a H&H but I think the others would be thrilled to play in Columbus for the typical fee. If Ohio State has some hang-up about playing in-state schools for recruiting reasons or whatever fine, make a deal with Michigan or MSU: We'll host three three directional-Michigan's, they host three Ohio MAC schools.
- #23 Dayton
- #37 Cincy
- #108 Akron
- #130 Toledo
- #131 YSU (already on schedule)
- #139 OhioU
- #171 Kent
- #196 Cleveland State
- #228 Bowling Green (hi @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) )
- #238 Miami, OH
Wisconsin non-conference. I had to look up where Greenbrier was. Looks like a nice area. Not sure how to get there easily.You can't
I had to look up where Greenbrier was. Looks like a nice area. Not sure how to get there easily.
You can'tUnless I'm confusing it with something else, isn't the whole point of being there that it is basically in the middle of nowhere?
So it looks like most Big Ten cross-country road trips are 2 days apart (examples Sun-Wed, Tues-Friday)From the perspective of whether or not to add the schools, I think this is a good reason not to but that is water over the dam as they say. From the perspective of scheduling I think this is the best they could have done. One multi-day trip for the EST/CST teams and four multi-day trips for the PST teams is, IMHO, vastly better than two one-day trips for the EST/CST teams and eight one-day trips for the PST teams.
For the 14 teams in the east¢ral time zones., that means one trip a year to the West coast, to play 2 games, 2 days apart
For the 4 west coast schools, that means each school will make 4 road trips a year to the east or central time zone, 2 games on each road trip that are 2 days apart.
That's a lot time off-campus for the West coast teams. I hope they are taking all online classes. I know that's what Caitlin Clark did her final semester at Iowa. In fact she was still taking online classes when she was playing her first games for the Indiana Fever.
I also think that the trips to LA will be MUCH easier on the EST/CST teams than the trips to the PacNW. Pauley Pavilion to the Galen Center is 12.4 mi, 43 min by car per google (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Galen+Center,+3400+S+Figueroa+St,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90089/Pauley+Pavilion,+301+Westwood+Plaza,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90095/@34.0318535,-118.4657737,23438m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2c7e1124ec94f:0x699dcec2392fdbb4!2m2!1d-118.280122!2d34.0210478!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2bc86005edb23:0xa0f07ffb513a622d!2m2!1d-118.4469294!2d34.0703423!3e0?authuser=0&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkxNi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D). I don't know LA well enough to know if this is practical but getting a team hotel about half-way between those two would permit you to easily stay in one place the whole time you are there.I don't know what sort of schedule they need to hold on these trips, but I'd say it's certainly doable to have a single hotel for the whole trip. You maybe build in a little extra time for the team bus to get place to place, but I have to think that's better than having to swap hotels in between games.
I don't know what sort of schedule they need to hold on these trips, but I'd say it's certainly doable to have a single hotel for the whole trip. You maybe build in a little extra time for the team bus to get place to place, but I have to think that's better than having to swap hotels in between games.Agreed and that is how I view it, swapping hotels sucks. Much easier to stay in one place the whole time.
In better news, apparently Oregon cleaned up their court design as wellThank God, I hated watching games on that floor.
| 1 | Purdue (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/PURDUE/purdue-boilermakers/) (20 1st-place votes) | 572 |
| 2 | Indiana (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/IND/indiana-hoosiers/) (7) | 549 |
| 3 | UCLA (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/UCLA/ucla-bruins/) (2) | 510 |
| 4 | Illinois (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/ILL/illinois-fighting-illini/) (2) | 458 |
| 5 | Michigan State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MICHST/michigan-st-spartans/) (1) | 448 |
| 6 | Oregon (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/OREG/oregon-ducks/) | 412 |
| 7 | Rutgers (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/RUT/rutgers-scarlet-knights/) | 391 |
| 8 | Ohio State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/OHIOST/ohio-state-buckeyes/) (1) | 369 |
| 9 | Michigan (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MICH/michigan-wolverines/) | 342 |
| 10 | Maryland (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MD/maryland-terrapins/) | 263 |
| 11 | Iowa (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/IOWA/iowa-hawkeyes/) | 249 |
| T-12 | Wisconsin (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/WISC/wisconsin-badgers/) | 212 |
| T-12 | Nebraska (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/NEB/nebraska-cornhuskers/) | 212 |
| 14 | USC (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/USC/usc-trojans/) | 196 |
| 15 | Washington (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/WASH/washington-huskies/) | 158 |
| 16 | Northwestern (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/NWEST/northwestern-wildcats/) | 153 |
| 17 | Penn State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/PSU/penn-state-nittany-lions/) | 87 |
| 18 | Minnesota (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MINN/minnesota-golden-gophers/) | 62 |
Media predictionsIt seems odd that Ohio State is near the middle and yet they have a first place vote. In the strange new world of NIL and the portal this actually makes perfect sense. The Buckeyes are more-or-less impossible to project. They brought in some extremely high-end talent but lost some of their best players and most of that they now have has never actually played together.
1 Purdue (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/PURDUE/purdue-boilermakers/) (20 1st-place votes) 572 2 Indiana (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/IND/indiana-hoosiers/) (7) 549 3 UCLA (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/UCLA/ucla-bruins/) (2) 510 4 Illinois (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/ILL/illinois-fighting-illini/) (2) 458 5 Michigan State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MICHST/michigan-st-spartans/) (1) 448 6 Oregon (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/OREG/oregon-ducks/) 412 7 Rutgers (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/RUT/rutgers-scarlet-knights/) 391 8 Ohio State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/OHIOST/ohio-state-buckeyes/) (1) 369 9 Michigan (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MICH/michigan-wolverines/) 342 10 Maryland (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MD/maryland-terrapins/) 263 11 Iowa (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/IOWA/iowa-hawkeyes/) 249 T-12 Wisconsin (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/WISC/wisconsin-badgers/) 212 T-12 Nebraska (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/NEB/nebraska-cornhuskers/) 212 14 USC (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/USC/usc-trojans/) 196 15 Washington (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/WASH/washington-huskies/) 158 16 Northwestern (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/NWEST/northwestern-wildcats/) 153 17 Penn State (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/PSU/penn-state-nittany-lions/) 87 18 Minnesota (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/teams/MINN/minnesota-golden-gophers/) 62
Timing on this is not good.The NIL/transfer portal has put him in a terrible spot. Coaches who program build are irrelevant
https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/1847012207684366683?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1847012207684366683%7Ctwgr%5Eefda274c65261a2416cafa2c8f00baa7493c4880%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2F23%2Fcontents%2Ftweets-144988831%2F%3Fpage%3D1 (https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/1847012207684366683?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1847012207684366683|twgr^efda274c65261a2416cafa2c8f00baa7493c4880|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2F23%2Fcontents%2Ftweets-144988831%2F%3Fpage%3D1)
Timing on this is not good.Some rumblings, he is going for the move his father and Bo did, trying to give his right hand man a shot.
https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/1847012207684366683?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1847012207684366683%7Ctwgr%5Eefda274c65261a2416cafa2c8f00baa7493c4880%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2F23%2Fcontents%2Ftweets-144988831%2F%3Fpage%3D1 (https://twitter.com/UVAMensHoops/status/1847012207684366683?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1847012207684366683|twgr^efda274c65261a2416cafa2c8f00baa7493c4880|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fwisconsin%2Fboard%2F23%2Fcontents%2Ftweets-144988831%2F%3Fpage%3D1)
That was my thoughts too.I think Izzo is in a place where he can just kind of let the NIL take care of itself. But he hasn't fielded a great team since the 2019-20 team, which was before all of this. I think he is fine just being a tournament team, and not dealing with the drama
I'm surprised more old schoolers are still coaching.
Buckeyes got whipped in an exhibition with Cincinnati. Not sure what to think of that - I don't recall these super early exhibitions being a thing before.The secret exhibtions have been around like 5-6 years
The secret exhibtions have been around like 5-6 yearsWell yeah, but this wasn't a secret. They sold tickets and everything
I am worried about Wisconsin‘s point guard situation. Rest of the roster seems somewhere between fine and good. But I don’t like the amount of work they’re probably gonna put on some of the wings.I think McGee will be fine, with Freitag waiting in the wings. He will play a lot this year.
I think McGee will be fine, with Freitag waiting in the wings. He will play a lot this year.I don’t like how limited McGee has the potential to be. And I am worried if one of the other two isn’t better than him is his height.
Blackwell is gonna be awesome. They will have to really pony up to keep him.
Sounds like the C position is in good shape.
Probably inoculated against early returns based on the Holtmann years for a while. Though it makes sense - these games are often between two groups of guys who have never played a game together.I couldn't watch because it was on a channel I don't get so thanks for the synopsis.
I only watched the first half because I have a long day at work, plus I was worried the Bucks were only ahead at halftime based on making a bunch of ill-advised threes. So glad to see they held it together in the second half. They promised pace and defense, and the start of the game was frenetic. The defense was overall decent - they got torched by Texas' freshman, but otherwise were good. The backcourt is strong - Meechie wasn't good, but the other three were and Meechie will have some good games. Parrish was surprisingly ready to shoot.
The bad was the frontcourt. Bradshaw and Stewart were barely there.
10 guys (see above) played in the game against Texas. The game was interesting in that while Ohio State literally led for the entire game, it was only rarely by double-digits and was a nine point game at the U4 timeout. In other words, despite leading for the entire game, the Buckeyes didn't really have an opportunity to get their backups some minutes. I expect to see a lot more of them in the game against YSU on Monday.In pointing out the scholarship limit, that should’ve been thing? Like you can really only play up to tonight or guys who matter? Maybe 10 or 11 if your first-half subs look like the lobby of a large train station?
The NCAA scholarship limit is 15 but NIL has made that more-or-less irrelevant. The Buckeyes have 15 guys on scholarship and a 16th who is getting his tuition paid by NIL.
The six who did not have any minutes against Texas are:
- 6-4 So G from Minneapolis, Taison Chatman: Chatman suffered a knee injury over the summer and will miss the entire 2024/25 season.
- 6-4 Fr G from New Albany, OH (Columbus suburb), Braylen Nash: Given Ohio State's apparent strength at guard and that Nash is a walk-on, I rather doubt that he'll play any meaningful minutes this year.
- 6-3 Jr G from Texas, Colby Baumann: Baumann only played in three and four games respectively in his first two seasons in Columbus so at this point it appears the he will likely never be a significant contributor at this level. He seems like a Club Trill guy in the Mark Titus mold.
- 6-6 Fr F from Ottawa, OH, Colin White: I assume that we'll see him against YSU as the staff tries to figure something out for the frontcourt.
- 6-8 Jr F from Van Wert, OH Kalen Etzler: Etzler played sparingly as a Freshman in 2022/23 and Sophomore last year but given Ohio State's frontcourt shortcomings he may get on the court more going forward. We'll see.
- 7-1 Fr C from Croatia, Ivan Njegovan: Given Ohio State's apparent frontcourt weakness, I would be surprised if he doesn't at least get a look in the YSU game.
I've sorted these from what I think are the least likely to what I think are the most likely to get substantial minutes this year.
Rearranging this into likely most-to-least minutes this year I have:
- 6-2 Jr G from GA, Bruce Thornton: Thornton was a 4* out of HS in tOSU's #8 ranked class back in 2022. Thornton is now the only guy left from that class. Gayle is at TSUN, Okpara is at Tennessee, Sensabaugh is with the Utah Jazz, and Hardman is at Akron.
- 6-2 Sr G from Cleveland, Meechie Johnson: Johnson was the leading scorer on a pretty good USCe team last year but the big question amongst Ohio State fans was if that was just an issue of volume.
- 6-6 SR G from Detroit, Micah Parrish: Parrish was only a 2* out of Detroit back in 2020 but he went to the F4 with SDSU so maybe . . .
- 6-6 So F from Pickerington, OH Devin Royal: Royal was a 4* out of HS back in 2023 in Ohio State's #11 ranked class but Middleton is now at Seton Hall and Chatman is out for the year with an injury so it is just he and Parks from that class (plus transfer Mahaffey).
- 7-1 So F from Jersey, Aaron Bradshaw: Bradshaw was a monster 5* recruit out of HS but 247 downgraded him to a 4* by the time Ohio State picked him up as a transfer from Kentucky. His performance against Texas was not encouraging. Hopefully that improves.
- 6-6 Jr G from Cincinnati, Evan Mahaffey: Mahaffey was a 4* out of HS when he went to Penn State. He contributed as a freshman at PSU and was a solid contributor last year at Ohio State. The 15 minutes that he played against Texas is actually less than he averaged last year but that could be a situational issue. We'll find out.
- 6-1 Fr G from Reynoldsburg, OH, John Mobley: Mobley was Ohio State's biggest HS recruit this year and, IMHO, lived up to his billing against Texas. It is reasonable to expect his minutes to increase as the year progresses.
- 6-9 So F from Florida, Sean Stewart: Stewart was a 4* Dook recruit out of HS.
- 6-0 SR G from Knoxville, TN, Ques Glover: Glover was a 3* when he went to Florida out of HS back before COVID. He played two years as a Gator, then two at Samford, then transferred to KSU where he sat out with an injury last year and now, in his sixth year in college, he is a Senior at Ohio State.
- 6-10 So C from St. Mary's, OH, Austin Parks: Parks seems like a project/development kind of guy who probably isn't ever going to be a star at this level but who might be a solid contributor eventually. I'm not sure if this year is when.
- 7-1 Fr C from Croatia, Ivan Njegovan: Given Bradshaw's and Stewart's struggles, I think we'll see a lot more of the big Croatian soon.
- 6-8 Jr F from Van Wert, OH, Kalen Etzler: Looks like another project like Parks.
- 6-6 Fr F from Ottawa, OH, Colin White: White was a 3* in Ohio State's 2024 class. If Bradshaw and Stewart don't start looking like what we hoped for, I think White might get some looks but that isn't a confident statement about Ohio State.
I don't think anyone else will contribute meaningfully. The Buckeyes do have two 6-6 guards in Parrish and Mahaffey so I wonder if we'll see them use a lot of quasi-4-guard looks with one or both of them on the floor as "big guards" who can contribute in the paint.
Not enough interest for an NBA thread obviously, but anyone see Zach Edey's game this week? His first game was I believe the fastest foul out for a starter in NBA history, which was predictable considering the whistle he got last year. But Monday night he had like 25 points, 12 rebounds and 5 blocks. I think he has to be paired with a PG like Morant, otherwise he becomes Andre Drummond. But guess what? He is paired with Morant, and the Grizzlies are funyes, I have been following him closely. I am interested to see how he adjusts, let's see if he can repeat that performance. You are correct, he landed in the right spot with Memphis.
Which B1G team will lose first?Probably ours in College Station.
Probably ours in College Station.Would be a heck of a run. Decent games coming up:
Would be a heck of a run. Decent games coming up:Ok, I hadn't looked at schedules before I posted, my mistake.
- New Mexico v. UCLA tomorrow
- Northwestern at Dayton Saturday
- Washington v. Nevada Saturday
- Michigan v. Wake Forest Sunday
- Yale at Purdue Monday
- MSU v. Kansas Tuesday
- TCU at Michigan Friday
- Alabama at Purdue Friday
- Va Tech v. PSU Friday
- Marquette at Maryland Friday
- Wazzu v. Iowa Friday
- Arizona at Wisconsin Friday
- OSU at TAMU Friday
I don't have much confidence in this roster going up against the #1 team in the countryThere is that too.
checked in on the hoops gameTar Heels making into a game
Jayhawks looking strong at home in the first half
Tar Heels making into a gameTrying to figure out if both teams can lose, math wasnt mathing
UCLA first team to lose, goes down to New Mexico.Football school
Football schoolwell, just because they beat a volleyball school and a wrestling school......
The Gator basketball coach...woof.Yikes
The Gator basketball coach...woof.
YikesWhen @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) posted this I hadn't seen the news yet and forgot to go look it up. I heard it on the regular (not sports) news today.
When @MaximumSam (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1572) posted this I hadn't seen the news yet and forgot to go look it up. I heard it on the regular (not sports) news today.Rumors Mel might have some equally bad stuff with female staffers, which is why MSU has no interest in settling
So ah, who is the next Gator basketball coach?
From the sound of it, this makes Mel Tucker look clean.
We can stop ranking beyond the top 4 teams. They all suck, and its pretty much just who is at homeBad for content
Bad for contentParticularly in the basketball thread
Seems like the 8 team preseason tournaments are gone, except for Maui and Atlantis. Guessing thats a result of conference realignment and consolidation. Tough to fill out an 8 team field when 3 teams are going to be mid majors. Way more 4 team tournaments now, which is kind of a bummer. I always enjoy those 8 team eventsI wonder if it is a timing and content thing, too.
Looking like the Buckeyes will be ranked next week.And they are, #21.
Also, my wife was next to Jeff Anderson on a flight to Florida this morning - he is the "high knee" ref who did the game last night.Hopefully not wide knees on a flight
Hunter Dickinson will be 24 in 2 weeks. Jaren Jackson just turned 25 within the past month, and is in his 7th NBA seasonThis seems mostly fine, outside the fact that Dickinson apparently started college phenomenally late. Did he spend some time in Juvie or something?
This seems mostly fine, outside the fact that Dickinson apparently started college phenomenally late. Did he spend some time in Juvie or something?He was already old for his grade. Then he did a prep school year. And bc of the COVID year he gets a 5th year. Yeah, its all on the up and up, its just hilarious
To be honest, Im not aure how it was that close. Xavier Booker is really trending towards bust at this point, and Akins continues to disappear in big gamesYeah what a weird game. Very competitive, despite MSU looking like garbage for long stretches. But yeah Booker being completely nonexistent is a big problem. They have 37 centers, so it's not like they need him, but dag. Tough to point to anything he is doing well right now.
Yeah what a weird game. Very competitive, despite MSU looking like garbage for long stretches. But yeah Booker being completely nonexistent is a big problem. They have 37 centers, so it's not like they need him, but dag. Tough to point to anything he is doing well right now.He's not a real center, hes more of a stretch 4, which is why I dont have a ton of hope. True 5s, and old school PF 4s have always blossomed late under Izzo. The ones who have stuck it out hace traditionally really come into their own. But hes not a guy who is trying to learn post moves, or how to rebound. Hes been asked to do less than any big man under Izzo and hes still underachieved. I wouldnt be shocked if hes pkaying at Butler or something next year.
I believe this is it isn't it for any remaining Covid roster bloat, right? (for all sports). so many giant rosters (still) in volleyball for instance.I think if you uave a medical or game redshirt, you could technically get a 6th year next year
I believe this is it isn't it for any remaining Covid roster bloat, right? (for all sports). so many giant rosters (still) in volleyball for instance.For the most parti I think's right. Should be the last group of super seniors, at least until they sue to make eligibility a thing of the past
For the most parti I think's right. Should be the last group of super seniors, at least until they sue to make eligibility a thing of the pastIve said all along, if all of these other challenges are successful, how can unlimited eligibility not be successful
He was already old for his grade. Then he did a prep school year. And bc of the COVID year he gets a 5th year. Yeah, its all on the up and up, its just hilariousIn a case of poking fun about how old someone is, I kind of shrug it off if they’re only in a fifth year. Lots of people get fifth years. That part is pretty unremarkable.
In a case of poking fun about how old someone is, I kind of shrug it off if they’re only in a fifth year. Lots of people get fifth years. That part is pretty unremarkable.(https://y.yarn.co/8013def9-0e9a-47c6-a8b5-7bb7ad4ca0f7_text.gif)
To answer the Fearless question, this is the last year that someone who was a true freshman in the Covid year who hasn’t since would be eligible. So I’m guessing that’s gonna take care of a big chunk of the people. So the only people with COVID bonus years will be folks who were around in 2020 and redshirted for some reason after that. (some of those reasons will be unintentional, a few will be intentional)
Minnesota lost at home to North Texas last night. UNL, IL, UWash, and USC all won as heavy favorites at home.USC just barely
Friday night schedule:i s c & a aggie wife.Hey @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) whenever you mention your wife who apparently went to aTm you name it as some character string. What is that?
- 6pm TCU at Michigan, FS1
- 6:30 Monmouth at #24 Rutgers, BTN
- 7pm #2 Bama at #13 Purdue, Peacock (how is this not on a real channel?)
- 7:30 VaTech vs Penn State in Baltimore, Peacock
- 8pm #15 Marquette at Maryland, FS1
- 8pm Eastern Illinois at Northwestern, Peacock
- 8:30 Washington State vs Iowa from Moline, IL, BTN
- 9pm #9 Arizona at Wisconsin, Peacock
- 9pm #21 Ohio State at #23 Texas A&M, SECN
- 10pm Lehigh at UCLA, B1G+
The cancelling effect is 3 point shooting, and MSU is brutal there#18 in the conference
I never loved AJ Hoggard, but never got why he was hated so much among the fan base, and they kept acting like he was why they couldnt get over the top. No, it mainly that you need NBA talent, and Izzo refuses to use his clout to go get it from the portal. Booker was a big time recruit, but his body is not filling out, and the other guys are good but not elite, which os what you want from 3/4* recruits. The cancelling effect is 3 point shooting, and MSU is brutal thereMaybe it’s because he had a habit of hurting my feelings as a Wisconsin, but I totally get it.
These ain't your daddy's Badgers.I stayed up to watch it. What a night.
I never loved AJ Hoggard, but never got why he was hated so much among the fan base, and they kept acting like he was why they couldnt get over the top. No, it mainly that you need NBA talent, and Izzo refuses to use his clout to go get it from the portal. Booker was a big time recruit, but his body is not filling out, and the other guys are good but not elite, which os what you want from 3/4* recruits. The cancelling effect is 3 point shooting, and MSU is brutal thereTo follow up on Booker. Remember, when MSU got in on him, he was a solid 4* recruit. I think he was in the 60s on 247. Then he hit a growth spurt and shot up. Last time that happened to an MSU recruit, it was Jaren Jackson Jr. I think some of the expectations are a little unfair. It was almost like they assumed the skill set would follow the growth spurt, and that's not always the case. He's just kind the same developmental stretch 4 type guy, with defensive and rebounding issues. he's just like 5 inches taller than he was
Not touching Wisconsin either way with a 10 foot poleI felt weirdly fine about that game. It was a major letdown spot. I don’t think Wisconsin is THAT Good, and with a weird rotation, I’m guessing there will be more inconsistency.
I felt weirdly fine about that game. It was a major letdown spot. I don’t think Wisconsin is THAT Good, and with a weird rotation, I’m guessing there will be more inconsistency.Yeah, I just meant I'm not betting on their games
I also think that team they played is pretty good. And plays a really weird style. The biggest disappointment was that their 68 Fire hybrid Center gave Wisconsin’ centers more trouble on both sides of the floor than you would like, even if he has kind of an odd game
To follow up on Booker. Remember, when MSU got in on him, he was a solid 4* recruit. I think he was in the 60s on 247. Then he hit a growth spurt and shot up. Last time that happened to an MSU recruit, it was Jaren Jackson Jr. I think some of the expectations are a little unfair. It was almost like they assumed the skill set would follow the growth spurt, and that's not always the case. He's just kind the same developmental stretch 4 type guy, with defensive and rebounding issues. he's just like 5 inches taller than he wasHe was the third best player on his high school team. I saw him regularly get pushed around and dominated by 6'5" kids in the summer. I'll be amazed if he ever does much at MSU. He seems like a prime portal to Ball State kid.
Extremely unenthusiastic about having to face Bucky McMillan's Samford tonight.Increasingly unenthusiastic. MSU continues to make mind boggling decisions with scheduling. Lets play a handful of elite teams, a handful of sub 300 teams to tank the SOS, and fill in the gaps with the most dangerous possible mid majors
I wouldn't have been shocked if he had gotten the OSU or UM job last year. The should have beaten Kansas in the tournament last year
Still hilarously awful at 3 point shooting. Might be last in the nation by the end of this gameSadly up to 5-19 now which actually improves their season average
For the first time in years I am actually excited about the upcoming Basketball 🏀 season because my school isn't handicapped by bad coaching. I say that not knowing who the Ohio State coach will be but thrilled to know that it will not be Chris Holtmann!Just to update, 3-1 ties Chris Holtmans worst start, and he only once had a loss by November 15, so :57:
Just to update, 3-1 ties Chris Holtmans worst start, and he only once had a loss by November 15, so :57:Yeah but with Holtmann you always knew January was coming.
Always tough to tell what a new coach is trying to do, but the Buckeyes are contesting shots. They are #1 in the land in efg percentage defense.Then they are poorly equipped to play MSU who will miss unchallenged shots
On Marquette's end, Kam Jones achieved the third triple-double in school history, and the first since Dwayne Wade's Elite Eight game Vs Kentucky in 2003. We hear plenty about triple-doubles in the NBA occurring quite often, but Marquette only has three in their history? I hadn't considered how the triple-double translates to college basketball with a higher degree of difficulty.They are WAY less common for a couple reasons.
They are WAY less common for a couple reasons.To add, the NCAA career leader has 12. The NBA season leader has 42
1.) The game is only 83% as long.
2.) There was no shot clock at all until the mid 80s, and initially it was 45 seconds. A decade later it was reduced to 35 seconds. 20 years after that 30 seconds.
So the game is shorter, and there are fewer possessions. In the history of the NCAA Tournament, there have only been 10 triple-doubles, and two of them belong to Draymond Green, who is a triple-double machine in the NBA. He is the only player ever to have multiple NCAA Tournament triple doubles. He got his in 2011 and 2012. In the 12 years since then, there have only been 2. Ja Morant in 2019, and Marcus Domask last year
Drake upsets Miami. After Indiana State's quick success last year, if Drake follows, I wonder if the D2 ranks start getting raided for coaches more often.Oh man didn't realize we have some daytime basketball
Although Drake has some real hateable potential. Up 12, they scored an uncontested layup rather than running out the clock. Then when Miami was going up for a layup, one of their guys pushed him in the back, up 14, with under 10 to play, on a dangerous possession.
Oh man didn't realize we have some daytime basketballFeast Week baby!
I have a micro cassette recording somewhere of Danny Nee expressing his POV and lamenting about the 'Ameritas Classic' etc where Nebraska would host so and so co&$ su#$ing schools.He's still just 79. He's been a HS assistant in the Pittsburgh area for a decade. I think he now head coaches JV at a pretty large district south of the city. I think he liked coaching, and hated all the other bullshit of being a high major head coach.
That guy never had a dull press conference.
there have only been 10 triple-doubles, and two of them belong to Draymond Green, who is a triple-double machine in the NBA.Points, rebounds, and flagrant fouls? ;)
Points, rebounds, and flagrant fouls? ;)Nut Shot Hall of Fame First Ballot
Feast Week baby!
Granted these events are dwindling. Maui and Atlantis are ok, but not as great as they were 5 years ago. Other events have either really starting pumping in mid-majors, or gone from 8 teams to 4. I think the Disney Event in Orlando and the Wooden Event in LA are either no more, or greatly diminished...Oddly the on campus MTEs are making a comeback.
I need to figure out if there are any games to throw on the second monitor in the office.Just hope nobody gets hurt on this awful floor
Badgers play at five and I have done no research on the opponent, UCF. But I do need to get to a communal gathering somewhere in the matter out of the game so that’s annoying.
Rutgers finding out this isn't 2k, where you can just inject 2 5* recruits into a program built on developmentYou trade a road loss to Kennesaw for one year of Ace Bailey. Worth it I guess
You trade a road loss to Kennesaw for one year of Ace Bailey. Worth it I guessDo you?
Do you?Sorry, meant they scheduled the game as a way to get Bailey to come. I guess it was worth it.
Sorry, meant they scheduled the game as a way to get Bailey to come. I guess it was worth it.Ah, didnt know that. MSU used to do that for seniors, schedule road games in their backyard as a thank you. Last one I remember was at Bowling Green for Raymar Morgan
I did not realize the Greenbrier Tip Off was literally inside a hotel ballroomYeah, Ive literally eaten meals in there for a conference. It looks like the courtside seats were in the same chairs
Yeah, Ive literally eaten meals in there for a conference. It looks like the courtside seats were in the same chairsIt's giving me real sixth grade basketball tourney energy
Wisconsin upgraded with Tonje over StorrNo question about that.
I did not realize the Greenbrier Tip Off was literally inside a hotel ballroomIt’s not even the first time that Wisconsin has done that. The one down in Atlantis does the same thing.
No question about that.What an absolutely weird sport this is.
Storr will be on his 4th team next season.
wow, the Maui court does not disappoint.In retrospect, not blowing a lead seems like a pretty big accomplishment, considering the other 3 games
I was referring to the kaleidoscope of colors on the hardwood.That might just be the meds you are on
This is the worst Arizona team Ive seen in a while. They have some elite athletes, but no offensive coherence or defensive interest. In a very tough Big 12, Im not sure they even make the tournamentI rather liked a couple of their bigs, at least in offense.
I rather liked a couple of their bigs, at least in offense.They are fine if they can just overwhelm you with talent, but they run nothing offensively, and look disinterested defensively. Lost to unranked Oklahoma today to fall to 0-3 against P5 teams
USC lost 71-36 to Saint Mary's, but at least their football team is making it worth the additionGo Gaels!
Imagine losing out on Dusty May to give give Mike Woodson one more yearI like where Dusty May landed. He’s bringing a program back from the dead.
I'm pretty happy Wisconsin stuck with Gard. So many were calling for his head.Big game tomorrow night. Will help clarify expectations of this year's Michigan team.
Nice shot Dix.Heck of a game. Feels like the Big Ten is gonna have a lot of randomness this year
Heck of a game. Feels like the Big Ten is gonna have a lot of randomness this yearI think college basketball just has a lot of randomness now. How many teams have multiple starters they just bought out of the portal? Purdue seems to be the one program having high-end success, through actual program building anymore
Ummmmm....OSU? Everything alright?It is not all right
OSU plays like an AAU team. They are completely unorganized on both ends. When they make 3s they look good, when they dont they dontIt makes it all random. Creighton can beat Kansas or lose to Nebraska.
It is almost completely explained by the three point shooting (against Texas) or lack thereof (against Maryland). Around 50% last night would be 5-6 more made threes which is 15-18 points and they lost by 14.They lost by 24 and that was after being down by 40 in the second half. It wasn't just a rough shooting night.
Minnesota football = Marquette hoops.I like this version of Marquette. I'm all about using NIL to retain your roster. Don't get me wrong, Purdue pisses me off, but I respect the hell out of the way Painter does it. For better or for worse Izzo does it. Last year it was for worse, because he refused to go into the portal to plug holes. But Purdue and Marquette are the bar for recruiting, developing, retaining. Someone said that all 10 starters in the Michigan-Arkansas game tonight were transfers. Obviously winning is better than losing, but I respect schools who recruit, develop, retain
The hate is strong.
#1 recruit in the 2025 class commits to BYUHe also already has a sponsorship with Red Bull, at a school with a complicated relationship with caffeine
#1 recruit in the 2025 class commits to BYUSupposedly, the NIL deal was something in the area of 7 million.
Supposedly, the NIL deal was something in the area of 7 million.You will still get the insane transfer money, maybe even moreso because you are getting a little more of a proven commodity
My hope is that schools are going to start realizing that the cost is not worth the gain. The kid is going to be in school one year, but the odds of BYU getting to a final 4 / Big XII championship are probably still very low. Is a point going to be reached where the fans start to say "Why am I forking out money for this crap?"
I'm almost wondering if it is time to scrap the "one and done" rule and let kids go directly to the NBA out of high school. I am not a fan of how the college athletics landscape is changing. If we let the NBA deal with it, then at least we can pick off the top 20 or so of these kids demanding salaries that exceed what their coaches are getting.
Michigan-Arkansas is like watching a high end AAU game. Tons of talent, zero interest in defense, and very little offensive cohesion if the initial set doesnt work. Granted, this is college basketball now, so it might be fine. But the fact that these two teams spent more on transfers than anyone else, kind of amplifies it. The have the MOST new talent, and the LEAST time playing together. Both will be very dangerous in March thoughSo I’m curious on this. What’s the other alternative here if the initial set doesn’t work? Initial set does t work you have a shot clock winding down and athleticism and creativity take over no? Michigan basketball had a rough couple years and this looks like the most cohesive Michigan team in a while. Plenty of assists. A little sloppy when facing athletic teams so turnovers are glaring but as you said I think they are a solid team by March.
fire the coach who allows Minnesota to win a game in the Big TenWell crap. IU doesn’t play Minnesota again.
Well crap. IU doesn’t play Minnesota again.as a fan could you even spend time watching that game?
as a fan could you even spend time watching that game?The coach is pretty good. The NIL commitment is apparently embarrassing
I love big ten basketball but we have not put together a big ten team in years
i am bored with them and until they fire the coach and start all over they will proudly be anchoring the bottom of the league
I'd guess Hoosier basketball fans would agree with meI doubt they'd give up their CFP appearance for one basketball win when they want their coach gone anyway
swap basketball and Football wins
Buckeyes can't fall apart in January if they just stink the whole yearGranted it was against #2 but yeah, that was bad.
How in the world is Arkansas not ranked? They just beat #14 ranked Michigan. Better record than Michigan at 9-2 and only losses against Baylor & Illinois. I guess maybe to keep Michigan ranked for better draw to the Michigan Oklahoma game this week? Odd.Michigan is their only decent win. KenPom has them #40, and Michigan still #22
Michigan is their only decent win. KenPom has them #40, and Michigan still #22Michigan State's only decent win is 4 loss North Carolina, but i also get your point. I just think this early in the season, the top 25 teams that are borderline, if one beats the other, the winning team should probably be ahead of the losing team.
Michigan State's only decent win is 4 loss North Carolina, but i also get your point. I just think this early in the season, the top 25 teams that are borderline, if one beats the other, the winning team should probably be ahead of the losing team.KenPom has MSU #17, actually higher than they are in the polls
We'll find out when Arkansas has to play Tennessee, Old MIss and Florida in a 1 week period
KenPom has MSU #17, actually higher than they are in the pollsBball is definitely a topic I'll defer to your knowledge basically every time lol.
I just don't think Arkansas is borderline, Michigan is clearly better, Arkansas just won that game
Also, not sure the tier projections hold anymore, because I don't think home court holds the same sway it did even 10 years ago, and nobody knows what the cross country road games are going to mean.Taking another look here top 7 are all between #13 and #23, so...
Based off KenPom, it would be...
- 1 - Illinois, Oregon, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, Maryland
- 2 - OSU, MSU, PSU, Wisconsin
- 3 - Nebraska, Indiana, Iowa
- 4 - Northwestern, Rutgers, Washington
- 5 - USC, Minnesota
We even had 6 through last year, so my inclination is to at least have 7, so here is what my edits would be in splitting them out to get to 7. I combined what I think is the bottom of 1 and the top of 2, as the new 2, and left the remaining 2s in 3, which bumps everyone else down. So then I combined the bottom of 4 (now 5) and top of 5 (now 6) into the new 6, leaving Minnesota in 7
- 1 - Illinois, Oregon
- 2 - Michigan, Purdue, Maryland, MSU, Wisconsin
- 3 - OSU, PSU
- 4 - Nebraska, Indiana, Iowa
- 5 - Rutgers, Washington
- 6 - Northwestern, USC
- 7 - Minnesota
Michigan can run a pretty unstoppable 2 man game with their 4-5. I don't love their guards, and I think teams will have hot nights where they shoot them out of the arena. But having two bigs, including a true 5, like that, when most teams don't anymore, is going to cause a lot of problems.That 4 for Michigan is insanely good at a couple of things that don’t necessarily make him a bombastic player, but make him really helpful and additive to winning.
Cal is just going to keep rolling the ball out, and hoping to out talent you, and often enough, he does. But on the whole, Arkansas will lack any sort of consistency, IMO
Michigan folded again late in the game and had a run of bad decision making again but that foul on the 4 point play at the end was completely absurd and why college basketball is tough to stay attached to. Beyond garbage call and possibly even worse acting job on the foul.Yeah, live I thought it was the "didn't allow him to land" call. Replay, it was just a bad call.
Maryland isn't as good as Auburn but they do appear to be a tournament team so losing to them on the road isn't bad but failing to be competitive is problematic.#10 in KenPom. Highest ranked team in the Big Ten
#10 in KenPom. Highest ranked team in the Big Ten#14 in BPI, second in the B1G behind only #12 Illinois so maybe.
#14 in BPI, second in the B1G behind only #12 Illinois so maybe.BPI is even worse this early, because it factors in ESPN's recruiting rankings for the players
I'm just not sure that I trust any of these rankings this early.
#10 in KenPom. Highest ranked team in the Big TenSince it came up, B1G KenPom and BPI rankings (sorted by KenPom):
Wisconsin = UWI'll try to remember that going forward.
Washington = UDub
Ask @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) about it. He knows, having lived out there.
#10 in KenPom. Highest ranked team in the Big Ten
#14 in BPI, second in the B1G behind only #12 Illinois so maybe.
I'm just not sure that I trust any of these rankings this early.
BPI is even worse this early, because it factors in ESPN's recruiting rankings for the playersPer BPI, Maryland has played the 182nd SoS. Within the B1G that trails:
My hope for Wisconsin team is to go at least 10-8 Through the rest of the regular season. I hate to say it with a good coach, but it is not very well put together, albeit with a number of interesting pieces.I like the team, I think. Would have been nice to see them finish against Michigan though.
Feels like a year with a lot of tossups across the conference, so just have to grit their teeth and win enough of them.
I like the team, I think. Would have been nice to see them finish against Michigan though.I enjoy them and think they can be interesting, but I think the ceiling is on the lower end and I think it’s just going to be hard in a lot of games.
Wisconsin = UWFor me, it's
Washington = UDub
Ask @GopherRock (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=47) about it. He knows, having lived out there.
Frankie Fidler is going to convince Izzo to never take a 1 year transfer againUW was chasing him some in the off-season. What a weird numerical profile.
UW was chasing him some in the off-season. What a weird numerical profile.Nothing has worked. He gets to the line, but that's about it. Defense is bad, but that was known. But he can't shoot worth shit, and defenses have figured that out. They just drop, and don't foul him. He's shooting 17% from 3. I think he could be ok in a different system, but it simply isn't working here, and a large part of that is definitely Izzo's stubbornness.
Guessing that defense hasn’t been it?
Wisconsin's little hiccup appears to have been nothing more than that, and Rutgers trying to throw two one and dones into that program is going as expectedI’m sure the Badgers are going to have another rough patch somewhere in there, but that stretch was also a trio of very difficult games.
OSU and Minnesota both deserve to lose this gameYup. OSU gave Minnesota 50 chances to win that game and they refused to take it. Some absolutely brutal missed free throws in the last minute and both overtimes.
Yup. OSU gave Minnesota 50 chances to win that game and they refused to take it. Some absolutely brutal missed free throws in the last minute and both overtimes.Minnesota fouled an OSU player at the end of regulation, to give them a FT to win it...and he missed.
Wisconsin = UWCorrect.
Washington = UDub
My new David Robinson is really becoming fun to watch.I don't remember David Robinson following his coach from Navy to Pitt after his junior season. ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y297whw.png)
I don't remember David Robinson following his coach from Navy to Pitt after his junior season. ;)He would have followed such a good coach lol!! The picture of him and the height and arm muscle tone, while wearing #50 just looks similar. Was my childhood sports hero so I'll happily relive the memory.
Nothing against May, you play by the rules of the day, but I just hate what a year to year sport basketball has become. It was that for Kentucky and Duke. Now it's that for seemingly like 75% of the sport. Just buy a whole new team every year, while gutting the fun mid-majors that made the tournament fun
Honestly, you're spot on. all of it. Not even something I can find a reason to argue lol. Transfer portal at some point should be squashed or have limits or something. It's no longer collegiate athletics.. it's minor leaguesI think we are in the same place, I'd rather be good in a different way, but if this is how it is, I'd rather be good than bad.
I don't remember David Robinson following his coach from Navy to Pitt after his junior season. ;)I mean, were it not for COVID, he’d be out of eligibility this year.
Nothing against May, you play by the rules of the day, but I just hate what a year to year sport basketball has become. It was that for Kentucky and Duke. Now it's that for seemingly like 75% of the sport. Just buy a whole new team every year, while gutting the fun mid-majors that made the tournament fun
I mean, were it not for COVID, he’d be out of eligibility this year.So Chris Beard treated him BETTER than family?
And I didn’t realize this, but he wasn’t even an FAU kid out of HS. He was a nice find by Chris Beard who was deep on the bench as a freshman and left in the midst of that coaching change.
I think we are in the same place, I'd rather be good in a different way, but if this is how it is, I'd rather be good than bad.Yes, well articulated and all of this we are on the same page. I couldn't agree more and I'm in the place I'm at because it is how it is but isn't how I want it to be. And we fully agree that Beilein was the best hire of a lifetime. I loved everything about him. I absolutely hated that he took the Cavs job and that's coming from a Cavs fan. I knew it was an epic disaster waiting to happen and would do absolutely no favors for him.
I still think the arrogance of Indiana to think May would just linger at FAU until they were ready for him was staggering. Like just winning at FAU was assured, and he would still be a hot commodity whenever they decided Mike Woodson was a bad college coach. Michigan probably COULD have given their alum HC one more year, and it wouldn't be totally unwarranted, just like Indiana with Woodson, but they moved sooner rather than later, and now Michigan will benefit for a long time.
As to Beilein, I've always said he was the best hire in my lifetime. And he built that program from dust. Ellerbe and Amaker brought in talent, with absolutely zero vetting. It's where MSU football was under BW, and was heading during Mel. They literally had teammates fistfighting naked in Detroit during winter break. That's part of what I'm sad about. He leaned on guys like Zack Novak and Stu Douglass, and you saw year to year growth. That's what I loved as a fan of the college game. I saw it personally with MSU football. It's fun that Indiana had a historic season in football. But they just paid of bunch of dudes and immediately became great, it's not like you saw a program squeak into a bowl at 6-6, then get to a Citrus, then finally break through.
I think we agree on that. You'd rather Michigan win than lose, but it's not like this is Beilein building a program from dust and getting the programs first tournament bid in a decade. I felt that way when the Kenneth Walker team finished #8 and reached the NY6. It was definitely better than winning, but MSU's first NYD bowl under Dantonio, a Citrus Bowl loss to Matthew Stafford's Georgia meant WAY more
I still think the arrogance of Indiana to think May would just linger at FAU until they were ready for him was staggering. Like just winning at FAU was assured, and he would still be a hot commodity whenever they decided Mike Woodson was a bad college coach. Michigan probably COULD have given their alum HC one more year, and it wouldn't be totally unwarranted, just like Indiana with Woodson, but they moved sooner rather than later, and now Michigan will benefit for a long time.Actually, there was a strong movement to ditch Woodson last year. The University president and AD were ready to fire him. Woodson has some very strong support on the Board of Trustees, in particular Quinn Buckner, who vetoed that. Now we're probably stuck with him barring a massive implosion to end this season, which is always possible with him. He's already blown recruiting the best class of Indiana high school seniors in quite some time but Woodson doesn't really care about that. He's the laziest recruiter in major college hoops. He'll just throw cash around and bring in another poorly assembled group of portal transfers to run his antiquated Ewing & Oakley offense. There are no legit coaching prospects out there for IU so we are stuck with arrogant, lazy Mike Woodson.
Yes, well articulated and all of this we are on the same page. I couldn't agree more and I'm in the place I'm at because it is how it is but isn't how I want it to be. And we fully agree that Beilein was the best hire of a lifetime. I loved everything about him. I absolutely hated that he took the Cavs job and that's coming from a Cavs fan. I knew it was an epic disaster waiting to happen and would do absolutely no favors for him.A Michigan writer I trust said Beilein was the most interesting dude he ever met. He said he was a basketball savant, but imagine the smartest math savant you know also trying to convince a bunch of 18 year old athletes to buy in. He said if you forced an offensive and defensive system on him as a challenge, he'd figure it out. He was a scientist in a lab. But he was also amazingly talented at simplifying it or complicating it to the level of his players. If a kid had a basketball question, he could spend his whole day working with him. But the other stuff wore on him. Particularly the fact that he had an eye for underrated talent, then coached them up, and they still went pro after a year. Then that final year, apparently the locker room was a mess because of Jordan Poole. Everyone hated him, and Bryzdilkis (sp?) punched him in the face at halftime of the BTT. Beilein was done with all of the non-basketball distractions. He figured the NBA was that escape. Yes, no more 17 year olds, but he figured NBA players were as obsessed with the game as he was. Instead he faced a bunch of prima donnas, who made more money than him. He actually got ridiculed on NBA podcasts for trying to teach schemes to his roster. My god, imagine a coach coaching. But such is the NBA
Fine, AJ Hoggard was the problem. I'm willing to admit it nowAlthough Michigan state is decidedly improved, I feel like that little four-game snippet is maybe overstating things a little bit.
https://twitter.com/Loomin_Knotty/status/1877728888421314824
I think Johnson is a decent coach. Apparently their NIL commitment for basketball is dismal, perhaps lowest in the conference.It's weird to me because he's a recruiter first and foremost, and the NIL era probably reduces the value of that.
It's weird to me because he's a recruiter first and foremost, and the NIL era probably reduces the value of that.Agree. Mel Tucker's problems aside, I liked the hire because I think MSU's recruiting had tanked. I would be curious to see how he would have played out in a pre-NIL era, without the obvious personally issues. Once NIL came into play, being a great recruiter at a 2nd tier P5 school lost a ton of value if you couldn't coach.
I don't feel like he gets the most of out some guys, but he's also got top players like Garcia and Battle, who have some flaws (the Cooper kid did get a ton better when he went to SC)
Wolf is the better pro prospect. Hes asked to be more ball dominant than any other similar player in the country. The result is more turnovers. Goldin is a great college big, Wolf is a great college big, who also might sneak into the back end of the first round of the NBA DraftI would agree with most of that. For a guy his size, Wolf does a lot more with the ball than most 7 footers and shoots the 3 a lot better than most his size. That being said, Goldin has stepped up the most in bigger games. Granted, not every game has been like UCLA putting up 36 and completely changing the game, but he had some pretty massive impacts against Oklahoma, Iowa and Wisconsin as well. Some of it is definitely Wolf opening up opportunities for Goldin, but man another game or two like UCLA and NBA scouts can't overlook him.
I would agree with most of that. For a guy his size, Wolf does a lot more with the ball than most 7 footers and shoots the 3 a lot better than most his size. That being said, Goldin has stepped up the most in bigger games. Granted, not every game has been like UCLA putting up 36 and completely changing the game, but he had some pretty massive impacts against Oklahoma, Iowa and Wisconsin as well. Some of it is definitely Wolf opening up opportunities for Goldin, but man another game or two like UCLA and NBA scouts can't overlook him.I think Wolfe might be better, but basically because he’s got a wider skillset.
I think Johnson is a decent coach. Apparently their NIL commitment for basketball is dismal, perhaps lowest in the conference.Johnson is a great coach for every other big ten team. cant lose to him
Johnson is a great coach for every other big ten team. cant lose to himThey looked very good by the end of last year, and then had all of their talent poached
he should have been fired earlier this season
this team is unwatchable for a fan of the Gophers
i see zero Big ten wins and if they pull one out shame on the other team for allowing it
Wisconsin just had a hell of a time getting defensive stops in the second half. The offense should've made life easier, but OSU just got going.Id be curious to see the year to year numbers for Wisconsin at Kohl. Its a very nice arena, that is not very intimate. I think the building got too much credit for Wisconsin just being a very good team
I imagine we won't seem many differences as stark as the first and second half for the Buckeyes.
Id be curious to see the year to year numbers for Wisconsin at Kohl. Its a very nice arena, that is not very intimate. I think the building got too much credit for Wisconsin just being a very good teamLike overall record or how dominant they were their within games?
https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1879338350370586744?t=z2fX8xiiIK6TebSD1Khmlw&s=19Woodson’s got to go. He shouldn’t even have gotten to this year.
Wisconsin just had a hell of a time getting defensive stops in the second half. The offense should've made life easier, but OSU just got going.I think Gard is a "good" coach. I don't think he's a great coach. I'm not a huge basketball follower, so maybe I'm missing something, but my impression is that consistency isn't his thing. His teams are like a box of chocolates.
I imagine we won't seem many differences as stark as the first and second half for the Buckeyes.
Ballo was given a flagrant 2 ejection with about 2 min left in the game. Question is, will the Big Ten extend it and suspend him for the OSU game. If he is out for that game, I gotta imagine OSU wins.
Their next seven games are:
@OSU
@NW
Maryland
@Purdue
@Wisc
Michigan
@MSU
I can't imagine them being better than 2-5 in that stretch. If they are not only losses but complete blowouts (which recent history suggests is certainly possible), I'm thinking the odds of Woodson even surviving till season's end are 50/50.
Probably time to do tiers?I thought he already did them? Looking at KenPom, it kind of looks like...
What say you @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) ?
I think Gard is a "good" coach. I don't think he's a great coach. I'm not a huge basketball follower, so maybe I'm missing something, but my impression is that consistency isn't his thing. His teams are like a box of chocolates.I’d call him very good. Great is a small group, but UW has no great right to basketball success, and he’s been pretty good.
I thought he already did them? Looking at KenPom, it kind of looks like...I really think Michigan should still be in tier 2. If any other team should be tier 1, i'd say Oregon, although their UCLA loss is still a ? and Illinois smoked them. Will be interesting to see how the Purdue v Oregon matchup looks Saturday.
- 1 - Illinois, Purdue, MSU
- 2 - Wisconsin, Maryland, Oregon, Michigan
- 3 - OSU, UCLA, Nebraska
- 4 - Iowa, PSU
- 5 - Northwestern, Indiana, USC
- 6 - Rutgers, Washington
- 7 - Minnesota
I really think Michigan should still be in tier 2. If any other team should be tier 1, i'd say Oregon, although their UCLA loss is still a ? and Illinois smoked them. Will be interesting to see how the Purdue v Oregon matchup looks Saturday.Michigan is above Purdue, MSU and Oregon in KenPom, which is predictive. Here is where I drew the lines
I’d call him very good. Great is a small group, but UW has no great right to basketball success, and he’s been pretty good.I mean it's been 30 years now, I'd say they can expect it
I mean it's been 30 years now, I'd say they can expect itI’d argue that’s work every year, every offseason. It’s 30 years because of pretty good to great coaching.
I’d argue that’s work every year, every offseason. It’s 30 years because of pretty good to great coaching.But multiple coaches. I'd say MSU has WAY less right to expect it, because they've had the same coach the whole time. So is it MSU, or is it just Izzo?
For Wisconsin, it's Stu Jackson, Dick Bennett, Bo Ryan and Greg Gard.Yeah, crushing it on that many consecutive coaching hires makes me think it's the program. Even SVG wasn't bad, he just wasn't a college coach
Also, a ton of credit to Donna Shalala and Pat Richter for changing the athletic culture in Madison.
Robbie Hummel making fun of Gus Johnson with a dig that only a few people would get, is amazingI missed it was only 1/2 paying attention to the game while waiting for Purdue / Washington
Michigan is above Purdue, MSU and Oregon in KenPom, which is predictive. Here is where I drew the linesSince you referenced the value of KenPom a couple weeks ago and ultimately how it's predictive more than backward looking, i've really dug into it. I can see why you reference it often and honestly, why it's a pretty valuable set of data. And while I trust your breakdown and knowledge of college bball far more than my own, I'm sticking to my inner Honestbuckeye for a while and being pessimistic about my own rooting interest in Michigan bball so hopefully i'll be pleasantly surprised.
- 9. Illinois
- 11. Michigan
- 12. Purdue
- 14. Michigan State
Probably time to do tiers?It is.
What say you @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) ?
I thought he already did them? Looking at KenPom, it kind of looks like...I threw out a suggestion a while back but it didn't generate much discussion and I never followed through and set up the predictive spreadsheet.
- 1 - Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, MSU
- 2 - Wisconsin, Maryland, Oregon
- 3 - OSU, UCLA, Nebraska
- 4 - Iowa, PSU
- 5 - Northwestern, Indiana, USC
- 6 - Rutgers, Washington
- 7 - Minnesota
I think we should just go with our traditional set-up. For review that is:I agree with ELA .. but here is dumb question, how could we do tiers for home/away .. ie Nebraska is an absolute beast at home, but not so much on the road? Or this year do we say home team should beat someone 2 tiers higher or certain teams that are absolute beasts at home should get a 2 tier win probability?Teams that are home beasts: Nebraska, Mich St, Purdue, Northwestern(?)
- 1 - Illinois, Michigan, Purdue, MSU
- 2 - Wisconsin, Maryland, Oregon
- 3 - OSU, UCLA, Nebraska
- 4 - Iowa, PSU
- 5 - Northwestern, Indiana, USC
- 6 - Rutgers, Washington
- 7 - Minnesota
Wow .... Minnesotalike i said earlier in the season
No tier system would have had that oneMy working theory is that modern CBB with it's heavy reliance on the three-ball is just going to inherently be more volatile because 3pt shooting percentages are inherently highly variable.
Big night overall for home dogs.Glad we played Rutgers when we did ... and boy did Nebraska prove me wrong rather quickly after my post yesterday ... think they had won 20 or 21 straight at PBA.
Minnesota over Michigan; Northwestern over Maryland; Temple over Memphis; Oregon State over Gonzaga
And the one team we said was a totally different team at home, Nebraska, loses at home to Rutgers, who might be starting to figure something out
Wow .... Minnesota
My working theory is that modern CBB with it's heavy reliance on the three-ball is just going to inherently be more volatile because 3pt shooting percentages are inherently highly variable.Is the sport that much more random than say 15 years ago? Or do we just not remember weird upsets?
My example from about a year ago was this:
If @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) is 6-10 and I am 6-2 then he is ALWAYS going to be 8" taller than me. I'm never going to have a "good night" where I'm suddenly 6-11. Thus, I'm always going to struggle in the paint against him because even on a bad night for him / good night for me, he still has an 8" height advantage that I just can't erase.
With Three point shooting, things are different. If @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) is a 50% 3pt shooter and I'm a 25% 3pt shooter there will occasionally be nights when I shoot a higher percentage than he does. There clearly will not be many of those nights but there will be some.
I didn't watch last night nor even look up stats so I don't know if that is what happened last night but I do think it is a factor that increases the randomness. Ohio State is a good example. The Buckeyes have a sharpshooting freshman and a few other pretty good outside shooters and when they all have a good shooting night, Ohio State is suddenly a S16 quality team that will be a tough out for even the best teams in this league but when they are cold it gets ugly.
Is the sport that much more random than say 15 years ago? Or do we just not remember weird upsets?Putting actual data behind this would be a massive undertaking.
Recently the average number of 13-16 seeds winning at least one game on average over five years has climbed over 2.00 and hit an all-time high of 2.40 for the five tournaments from 2018-2023 (2018, 2019, 2021, 2022, 2023).Which tracks well with your hypothesis. It's a hard thing for smaller schools to find 6'6" chiseled athletes with legs made of flubber who can play above the rim. There just aren't that many of them out there, and they get recruited by the big schools. It's easier for them to find some smaller and less athletic kids who can't do everything a P4 team's basketball player needs to do, but they CAN shoot the lights out of the gym and hustle.
By that metric, yes the sport is dramatically more random that it was 20 years ago.
Nice west coast trip for Purdue. Wasn't expecting to beat Oregon today. Winning ugly still counts.They looked good.
Well, still think Illinois is the best team in the conference. MSU got a pretty big home court whistle there. Thought it was over up 7, but Illinois made it toughCollege basketball may be the most easily official influenced sport. It’s at the point where it’s borderline unwatchable at times. This Michigan Northwestern game is absurd.
Tonight’s UW game should be interesting.9:30 start sucks. Not gonna see much of this one, if any.
Good offense vs good defense. UCLA had a rocky stretch but then just smashed Iowa. Very intrigued.
9:30 start sucks. Not gonna see much of this one, if any.I’m definitely not seeing that timing in a positive light. Often that can be nice because I can do something social, and then we’ll back around to catch a late game.
9:30 start sucks. Not gonna see much of this one, if any.you'd think they'd learn
Road losses happen. Yeah, it sucks that it was Minnesota. MSU had a Big Ten championship one year where they lost to both Northwestern and Penn State, the two worst teams in the league. Crowds are tough, and you typically get a bad whistle. I actually get more frustrated when MSU doesn't get a good whistle at home than when they get a bad whistle on the road.Now, losing at home to Minnesota is cause for concern
Which tracks well with your hypothesis. It's a hard thing for smaller schools to find 6'6" chiseled athletes with legs made of flubber who can play above the rim. There just aren't that many of them out there, and they get recruited by the big schools. It's easier for them to find some smaller and less athletic kids who can't do everything a P4 team's basketball player needs to do, but they CAN shoot the lights out of the gym and hustle.Yep, that is my theory in a nutshell. I'm going to try to bring a chart over that displays it better:
And all it takes is a hot shooting night for that team to scare the hell out of, and sometimes beat, the school with the athletes. Especially when the big schools have ALSO used the same analytics and built teams around the 3 ball because they need it to compete with the other big schools ALSO doing that. A team built to dominate in the paint can usually count on that day in day out. A team relying on the 3 ball can just have an awful shooting night every once in a while.
Yep, that is my theory in a nutshell. I'm going to try to bring a chart over that displays it better:I wonder why it started out so high.
(https://i.imgur.com/oK0zfsD.png)
If that posts right, you can see that the number of major Tournament upsets (13-16 beating 1-4) bottomed out in the 00's but was higher before and is much higher now.
I wonder why it started out so high.I do as well...
I wonder why it started out so high.
I do as well...I don't have much in the way of theories other than what @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) already listed. Maybe recruiting was a little less nationalized so there was a higher chance of a very good player flying under the radar and ending up at a small school rather than being located and recruited by the power teams?
Potentially given the lack of exposure of so many of these small schools, it was easy for smaller schools to have tape/scouting on the power conference programs, and there was little to no film on the small schools? Leading to a disparity of preparation?
Or potentially less sophistication of the selection committee where perhaps due to not as much knowledge/analytics, perhaps there were some teams getting over-seeded into the top 4 seeds and more ripe for upset?
It would be an interesting problem to solve... I don't have enough historical knowledge about the conditions of college basketball in that era, so obviously the above is just wild conjecture.
Looks like Illinois spent too much time complaining that their freshman wasnt getting star treatment, and not enough time prepping for MarylandAnd Brad Underwood is still complaining about the officials after last night.
There were some questionable foul calls that got their "star" player in trouble, the freshman (sophomore) in the MSU game, his 4th foul in that game was a complete phantom call ... I get it there may have been bad calls both ways, but to give him his 4th foul and limit his minutes in that game was impactful.The game was called tight. I literally said MSU got a home court whistle at the time. Illinois and MSU were called for the same number of fouls and shot the same number of FTs. Hell, if you could guarantee me that MSU would get equal calls in road games, I would absolutely take it. But that wasn't his complaint. His complaint was that his freshman "star" didn't get star treatment. Even though that "star" is leading the Big Ten in fouls per minute among perimeter players. And then he actually shot more FTs than Maryland in a 21 point loss, and still blamed the refs.
Not disagreeing with you at all but that 4th foul on the freshman was not a foul.Of course not
down 17, then down 3, then down 17Shit show on Badger defense.
shit show
I wonder if high is just the norm, and rather than viewing it as dropping, and then rising, that if we review this in 50 years, it's consistently at the two peaks, and then that dip is the one dip.
Shit show on Badger defense.Ended up the second-best defensive game statistically for the team this season.
They don't do it like they used to.
That's a result of who they played.I mean, they held a Big Ten offense to numbers worse than a lot of bye game opponents. That seems like a not bad day.
I mean, they held a Big Ten offense to numbers worse than a lot of bye game opponents. That seems like a not bad day.There are just too many defensive lapses with this team. They had UCLA beat and let them win. Just the latest example.
What are a few college basketball podcasts worth recommending?For Field of 68 I listen to the Goodman & Hummel and also to Dauster, T.O. & Fanta ... both come out 1x a week and are decent, but generally cover major conferences.
For Field of 68 I listen to the Goodman & Hummel and also to Dauster, T.O. & Fanta ... both come out 1x a week and are decent, but generally cover major conferences.Yeah, it's very host dependent. They do a daily one "After Dark" to break down the whole day, and some of those guys (Tyler Hansbrough...cough, cough) are useless. Goodman & Hummells show is clearly their best. I really like Ant Wright as well. Wright is pretty good on Twitter too. Former bench guy for Michigan. I think he bridged the Amaker and Beilein eras.
wasn't bad, but nothing to be proud of if you follow the HuskersWith this team, I just want some steps on defense.
There are just too many defensive lapses with this team. They had UCLA beat and let them win. Just the latest example.Def needs to be better. And UCLA was just not good.
I think I had forgotten that the bottom 3 teams don't get in. Don't get that, other than them assuming nobody comes in on Tuesday, knowing they'd have to commit to 6 games to win it, and those teams are never getting in otherwise. But lets be honest, its a television product anyway.I think you might have been the one that suggested this but, IMHO, the only practical way to do this with 18 teams is to eliminate the Sunday games on the last weekend of the regular season (you could make them floaters and just only have teams that aren't playing in the first round play on Sunday). Then have the top-4 seeds host the opening rounds so:
- TUESDAY
- #15 vs. #18
- #16 vs. #17
- WEDNESDAY
- #9 vs. #16/17
- #10 vs. #15/18
- #11 vs. #14
- #12 vs. #13
- THURSDAY
- #5 vs. #12/13
- #6 vs. #11/14
- #7 vs. #10/15/18
- #8 vs. #9/16/17
- FRIDAY
- #1 vs. #8/9/16/17
- #2 vs. #7/10/15/18
- #3 vs. #6/11/14
- #4 vs. #5/12/13
- SATURDAY
- Semifinals
- SUNDAY
- Championship
FWIW: Based on the 39 tournaments since expansion (1985-2024 but no 2020), these seeds should yield:
- #2 Purdue
- #3 Michigan State
- #4 Oregon
- #4 Illinois
- #5 Wisconsin
- #5 Michigan
- #7 UCLA
- #7 Maryland
- #11 (play in) Ohio State
That’s gotta be a weird way to end the season.Good guess.
In other news, Wisconsin visits the Terps tomorrow. I’m guessing a loss, but interested in how it goes.
Good guess.It was the third or fourth hardest game left on the schedule. And they competed well.
Wonder if Brad Underwood will again complain about officiating?Probably!
Him and Muss maling their whole brand complaining about officials in post game press conferences is tiresome
They woke up.Nice lil road win.
I dont think Ive ever seen a defense sag off shooters as much as USC.did today, and MSU couldnt make them payI honestly did not realize that happened and am mildly shocked.
I honestly did not realize that happened and am mildly shocked.MSU can't shoot from deep. They've been able to at least keep defenses honest, if they go to the extreme, but yesterday I think USC packed it in SO much that they were totally caught off guard. One time Fidler caught it, pumped, nobody came out, and then he just put his head down and drove right into a triple team
I actually think USC is pretty good talent wise. But I really haven’t been able to pull it together that well.
another oddity. Michigan State flexed its depth while USC just put everything on the starters. Sometimes that is a hard lifestyle to live across a long-term, but I kind of have an affinity for it in the short term.
I didn't expect a win coming in, but this was just painful to watch. Ohio State led nearly all game including by as much as 11.Only upside is we don't have to hear Bradley whine about the refs for another week
The Buckeyes hit a 3 with 7:43 to go to take a two possession lead at 68-63. The next time Ohio State scored it was to cut Illinois' lead to eight at 78-70 with just over two minutes to play.
Buckeyes end up losing by 8 in a game where they led most of the way and by as much as 11 and Illinois didn't lead by more than 4 until the final minutes.
MSU can't shoot from deep. They've been able to at least keep defenses honest, if they go to the extreme, but yesterday I think USC packed it in SO much that they were totally caught off guard. One time Fidler caught it, pumped, nobody came out, and then he just put his head down and drove right into a triple teamHim being deeply unable to shoot has been a little surprising.
Didnt realize Barnhizer didnt play this weekend, and is having season ending surgery. Probably ends any small hope Northwestern had, easily their best playerWatching the game, I was more impressed than I expected with the Leach and Martinelli kids. The top five guys on that team seem like decent Big Ten rotation players, but it seems to be playing a spot or two ahead of where they should be.
Watching the game, I was more impressed than I expected with the Leach and Martinelli kids. The top five guys on that team seem like decent Big Ten rotation players, but it seems to be playing a spot or two ahead of where they should be.Martinelli is also very good. Barnhizer is the type of talent that likely won't stay at Northwestern going forward, not sure how they retained him now. He would have gotten a 1st team All-Big Ten vote from me
Iowa center as a broken hand and is apparently done for the season. Some rumblings this is a precursor to transferring.Garza was a different animal. Otherwise, I'm kind of the mind that Iowa will be the toughest team to gauge going forward. They play zero defense, and might randomly go off for 105 points. They could tank without him, or they could be better
He is a good ball player, although having him at the center of the defense has not done much to shore up a normal Fran-level defense. He led them in points, rebounds and blocks.
Garza was a different animal. Otherwise, I'm kind of the mind that Iowa will be the toughest team to gauge going forward. They play zero defense, and might randomly go off for 105 points. They could tank without him, or they could be betterUW has them Saturday in what I think is a key fulcrum game. At least for my expectations.
Martinelli is also very good. Barnhizer is the type of talent that likely won't stay at Northwestern going forward, not sure how they retained him now. He would have gotten a 1st team All-Big Ten vote from meHe developed slow? They only had to hold on after last year.
He developed slow? They only had to hold on after last year.Yeah, thats more than most all conference players will stick around at a bottom feeder going forward. The Northwestern degree should be worth something, but seeing non-pros leave Ivy League schools one year short of a degree for a 6 figure paycheck
Clones in big troubleLarry Eustachy will drink to that
Woodson and this team are so bad. He's made his bed relying on the transfer portal and NIL. He's too lazy to go see a McDonald's All-American 1.5 hours from Bloomington and would rather throw together a poorly assembled bunch of mercenaries so he can spend more time on the golf course and in his cigar lounge with his primary benefactor Quinn Buckner. Then he has to play with his misfit toys because he's paying for them even though they fit together as well as a Goodwill jigsaw puzzle. Some of the higher-paid ones have to play even though they are lazy, entitled, and could care less about actually winning (Ballo). Top off that wonderful melange of crappiness with Woodson's tactical ineptitude and stubborn refusal to play modern basketball, or at least employ or not alienate and drive off an assistant who might help him evolve and you get what IU has become. We've got Ewing and Oakley in the age of Steph and Klay. Four years of Mike Woodson has done more to make IU a football school than one year of Curt Cignetti.So....Extension?
I'm starting to question Illinois though. The Arkansas and Oregon wins are starting to look not nearly as impressive as they were earlier in the season. The Missouri win is probably their best win so far. With games left @Minn, UCLA, MSU, @Wisc, Duke (N), Iowa, @Mich, & Purdue, I could see them dropping at least four of those games and finishing 19-12. Might get a little dicey at that point.Their computer numbers are still pretty good.
Remember when 2018 MSU as a whole was less than the sum of its parts, because they had 2 NBA players, and won a Big Ten title, but every MSU was pissed?That team was so, so weird. And the conference was baaaaaadddd.
Anyway how is Illinois doing?
In the next couple of days, there should be an announcement about Woodson "retiring/resigning" effective at the end of the season. I know the rest of the Big Ten will miss him.Football!!
Big game for OSU tonight. OSU has great metrics and a couple of good wins on the resume, but they just don't have enough wins overall yet to justify a tournament spot. If they can pull off winning all the home games (Maryland, Washington, Michigan, NW, & Nebraska) and pick up at least one road game (Nebraska, USC, UCLA, & IU), they would finish 19-12 and that would probably be enough to get them in.This tOSU team . . .
If they drop this game tonight though, they will probably have to pull off at least 2 or 3 or the road games to make up for it.
Based on the season so far, my guess is:So far this has not aged well, Ohio State was down the entire game but took a lead with just over 2 minutes remaining. They might not win but they aren't going to get drilled as it is a 1 point game with about a minute to play.
- They'll get drilled by Maryland and lose at Nebraska such that everyone starts counting them out, then
Bank open late in Columbus?
Bank open late in ColumbusBig bank challenge
?They banked in the winner
They banked in the winnerAh ok.
A while back @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) half-jokingly said that some #1 seed was going to be pissed to see Gonzaga/Ohio State as the 8/9 and in Lunardi's current bracket that is exactly what Duke would see. #9 Ohio State plays #8 Gonzaga with the winner getting #1 DOOK in Raleigh.In fairness I said Illinois-Gonzaga
Nice workmanlike win for UW. They were down a lot of the game, but closed really well.Big game next weekend. A win at Purdue would be huge, but doubtful.
Maybe it’s because Freeman wasn’t there, but even when it was close late, it just felt like “Wisconsin is the better team, and they’re probably gonna put up a run to finish this thing. That’s a nice feeling.
Big game next weekend. A win at Purdue would be huge, but doubtful.Never easy to win up there.
Never easy to win up there.The House of Boo has to be worth 10 points.
So we have a massive doubleheader tonight, featuring all 3 teams tied for first...The plan is maybe working?
First, Purdue travels to Michigan, then Indiana travels to MSU where Izzo tries to break Knight's record for Big Ten coaching wins.
...and both games are on Peacock
The plan is maybe working?Not for me it isn't. If I could watch these games I would and then they'd get my eyeballs counted in their ratings and get more ad revenue but I'm not buying Peacock to watch these games.
So we have a massive doubleheader tonight, featuring all 3 teams tied for first...Some fascinating dynamics at play here, first Purdue at Michigan:
First, Purdue travels to Michigan, then Indiana travels to MSU where Izzo tries to break Knight's record for Big Ten coaching wins.
Not for me it isn't. If I could watch these games I would and then they'd get my eyeballs counted in their ratings and get more ad revenue but I'm not buying Peacock to watch these games.Buy it when they run their special next summer. I'm paying $3.99/month, and I'll cancel after the CCG's are done. Simple.
Not for me it isn't. If I could watch these games I would and then they'd get my eyeballs counted in their ratings and get more ad revenue but I'm not buying Peacock to watch these games.The plan is to make you pay for a product. I suppose that means with you it’s a failure, but then you don’t get the product. So capitalism rolls on.
Not playing zone against MSU should be a firable offense. Particularly because Indiana actually plays a good zone, they totally shut down UM with it in the second half last week. Down 12 they gonto it, and we are all tied uphttps://twitter.com/itsAntWright/status/1889520975496007898
I don't think many teams do anymore, because most decent teams have at least a LITTLE 3 point shooting now. it seems like Indiana did so reluctantly.Good news, after last night, they're no longer last in attempts. USC fell behind them! So let's just look at percentages (and see if anyone was last at both)
They showed us that during the game that MSU is last in 3 point attempts and percentage in the conference. I'd be curious to see how teams who finished last in both in the conference fared over the past 10-15 years
Good news, after last night, they're no longer last in attempts. USC fell behind them!Not sure the night you shoot 17% is the night you want to move up in attempts per game
Not sure the night you shoot 17% is the night you want to move up in attempts per game(That was tongue-in-cheek. I am a little flummoxed, how an Izzo team ends up shooting like a coach Cal team)
Ed Zachery why I don't understand youse guy's fascination with assigning tiersthis. I always found it more complicated and useless than whatever the passer rating formula is.
I tend to think minute loads are a bit overrated as a complaint, but Lordy Smith for Purdue is playing a ton.I know it's a 2 man NPOTY race between Flagg and Broome, but Smith would probably be #3 right now
Since late Nov, he’s been off the court for 55 minutes in 19 games.
What do you guys who follow CBB think Ohio State needs to make the Tournament?Torvik projects OSU to go 4-2, only losing the LA swing, which projects to an 8 seed.
I’m feeling like Wisconsin probably doesn’t win in West Lafayette. Part of this is because Smith is just an absolute monster for mid range, in Wisconsin tends to funnel people into somewhat open shops there.And they are pissed off, coming in from a loss.
Plus Purdue is good and winning. There is always a pain in the ass.
I think OSU has to get to 20 to get in. 4-2 and then a win in the B1G tourney.They are 15-10/7-7 now. If they go 4-2 then 1-1 that gets them to 20-13. I'd be happy but I think that is a LOT more than they "need" to simply make the Tournament.
The B1G is not very respected this season.
My usual math is that if you came get to 5 games above .500, you should be OK as a power five school, unless the conference is a real shit show or you just went English major science classes for non-conference.Or this:
For OSU, that would be 19-14 at worse? You’ll sweat at 18-14.
It’s hard to totally read the rest of the schedule because Ohio State is pretty decent and the rest of those teams are all some degree of talented or squirrely or good. Granted, the buckeyes are pretty squirrely themselves
Torvik projects OSU to go 4-2, only losing the LA swing, which projects to an 8 seed.Thank you @847badgerfan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=5) , @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) , and @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) for addressing my question. I'm just checking myself making sure I'm not viewing things through scarlet glasses.
The closest is @Indiana (51%). If you flip that, they are still in and drop to a 9 seed.
Next is Michigan (53%). If you also flip that, they are still in, as a 10 seed, 4 spots out of even going to Dayton.
Now that doesn't factor in the BTT. 9-11 right now would track for 9th place, which projects to play #8 USC. If you add that as a loss, then OSU plummets all the way to 1st team out.
So I think they need some combination of 3 wins. Either 3-3 down the stretch or 2-4 with a BTT win.
[img width=500 height=272.993]https://i.imgur.com/jrmdkcY.png[/img]well, when you punch below the belt..............
Great day for road teams.It is not often that road teams go 4-0 in this league:
Defensive clinic. Illinois didnt score in the final 8:38amazes me that players at this level can't get the ball to go in the hoop
amazes me that players at this level can't get the ball to go in the hoopI think the only thing worse than being a low volume bad three point shooting team like MSU, is being a high volume bad three point shooting team like Illinois
I know UNL doesn't recruit great scorers, but Illinois should have a couple guys on the squad that can score
Here's some bullshit for ya.that Wisconsin player from Minnesota a while back sure got his knuckles on a few balls in his day Brad Davison?
https://twitter.com/BadSportsRefs/status/1890835074796441645 (https://twitter.com/BadSportsRefs/status/1890835074796441645)
impressive 2nd half by the HuskersQuite the turnaround.
needed that W
Go Gators!
EAST
- #1 Florida vs. #16 Bryant
- #8 Memphis vs. #9 NEBRASKA
- #5 Louisville vs. #12 Drake
- #4 MICHIGAN STATE vs. #13 Yale
- #3 St. John’s vs. #14 Samford
- #6 Clemson vs. #11 Texas
- #7 UCLA vs. #10 Utah State
- #2 Iowa State vs. #15 Central Connecticut State
NCAAIn putting together the NIT portion of this bracket I totally forgot that they got rid of automatic bids for regular season champions. And now a handful of teams can go to the FOX tournament in Vegas. It seems weird that this has created a fight for the just out major conference teams. first, is there an audience for this? second, with the portal, the major conference teams that just miss out, are likely going to be the teams with rosters with a foot out the door. The days of using the NIT as a stepping stone for a young roster are over
SOUTH
- #1 Auburn vs. #16 Merrimack/Little Rock
- #8 ILLINOIS vs. #9 Connecticut
- #5 Ole Miss vs. #12 McNeese
- #4 Marquette vs. #13 High Point
- #3 Texas Tech vs. #14 Lipscomb
- #6 Mississippi State vs. #11 Wake Forest/West Virginia
- #7 Creighton vs. #10 BYU
- #2 Tennessee vs. #15 Norfolk State
MIDWEST
- #1 Alabama vs. #16 Southern/Bucknell
- #8 New Mexico vs. #9 Gonzaga
- #5 Kentucky vs. #12 Liberty
- #4 MICHIGAN vs. #13 Akron
- #3 Texas A&M vs. #14 UNC Wilmington
- #6 Kansas vs. #11 VCU
- #7 Baylor vs. #10 San Diego State
- #2 WISCONSIN vs. #15 South Dakota State
EAST
- #1 Florida vs. #16 Bryant
- #8 Memphis vs. #9 NEBRASKA
- #5 Louisville vs. #12 Drake
- #4 MICHIGAN STATE vs. #13 Yale
- #3 St. John’s vs. #14 Samford
- #6 Clemson vs. #11 Texas
- #7 UCLA vs. #10 Utah State
- #2 Iowa State vs. #15 Central Connecticut State
WEST
- #1 Duke vs. #16 Milwaukee
- #8 OREGON vs. #9 Vanderbilt
- #5 MARYLAND vs. #12 UC San Diego
- #4 Missouri vs. #13 Grand Canyon
- #3 PURDUE vs. #14 Arkansas State
- #6 Arizona vs. #11 Oklahoma/SMU
- #7 Saint Mary’s vs. #10 OHIO STATE
- #2 Houston vs. #15 Northern Colorado
NIT
ATHENS
- #1 Georgia vs. #8 American
- #4 IOWA vs. #5 TCU
- #3 UC Irvine vs. #6 Montana
- #2 Pittsburgh vs. #7 North Alabama
FAYETTEVILLE
- #1 Arkansas vs. #8 SE Missouri State
- #4 Villanova vs. #5 USC
- #3 San Francisco vs. #6 Jacksonville State
- #2 Cincinnati vs. #7 UNC Greensboro
CHAPEL HILL
- #1 North Carolina vs. #8 Quinnipiac
- #4 Central Florida vs. #5 Dayton
- #3 Boise State vs. #6 Utah Valley
- #2 INDIANA vs. #7 Towson
CINCINNATI
- #1 Xavier vs. #8 Cleveland State
- #4 North Texas vs. #5 Arizona State
- #3 Kansas State vs. #6 St. Thomas
- #2 George Mason vs. #7 South Alabama
All Big Ten Teams
- Wisconsin - moved up from #3 seed to #4 seed
- Purdue - dropped from #2 seed to #3 seed
- Michigan State - #4 seed
- Michigan - moved up from #5 seed to #4 seed
- Maryland - moved up from #7 seed to #5 seed
- UCLA - dropped from #6 seed to #7 seed
- Illinois - #8 seed
- Oregon - moved up from #9 seed to #8 seed
- Nebraska - moved up from #10 seed to #9 seed
- Ohio State - #10 seed
- Indiana - moved up from NIT #3 seed to NIT #2 seed
- Iowa - moved up from NIT #6 seed to NIT #4 seed
- USC - dropped from NIT #4 seed to NIT #5 seed
- Northwestern - dropped from NIT #5 seed to #4 team out of NIT
- Rutgers - dropped from NIT #6 seed to #9 team out of NIT
- Washington - dropped to #10 team out of NIT
- Minnesota - dropped to #12 team out of NIT
- Penn State - dropped to #16 team out of NIT
Go Gators!We get it, you dont care about basketball. You should probably stop clicking on the thread, let alone posting on it
When is spring practice?
Cut lines for BTT:FWIW:
The next five (#5-9) do not have to play on Wednesday and start their BTT on Thursday. Right now 9th place is the middle of the three-way tie between Nebraska, Oregon, and Ohio State all at 7-8 and tied for 8th/9th/10th. If the BTT started today, two of them would play each other on Thursday while the other would play #15 on Wednesday.
Interesting games tonight. The Purdue/MSU game basically determines which will be Michigan's main competition down the stretch.As I pointed out, their starting 4, who is #2 on the team in rebounds and #1 in blocks, broke his wrist. And they still have Purdue, Wisconsin and Michigan left. As a fan of a team who would like those teams to lose I hate it, because I can't imagine Illinois beating any of those 4 teams with 6 guys, but there is a great chance they lose 4 more games because they are already thin.
Illinois is in a weird spot. They have played more league games than any other team. This is a scheduling issue because after tonight they take a week off from league games to pay Dook at MSG in NYC. Right now they have about as many wins as the teams in front of them but more losses and about as many losses as the teams behind them but more wins. If they win then UW/UMD/UCLA may fall back to them on their week off. If they lose then UNL/Ore/tOSU/USC may catch up to them on their week off.
Normally I root for what helps MSU, but man, rooting against Bradley is just so funIf you guys could knock Michigan around some, would appreciate.
I am not one to complain about winning games between ranked teams, but that game was a tough watch, and honestly I cant imagine anyone logging on to Peacock to watch a regular season basketball game?A) you sound like a great SEC fan
Hunter Dickinson has made a lot of money for a guy who was good as a 20 year old freshman in the COVID bubble, and then helped his next 4 teams underachieveKansas also has the notorious AJ Storr as a cancer.
As I pointed out, their starting 4, who is #2 on the team in rebounds and #1 in blocks, broke his wrist. And they still have Purdue, Wisconsin and Michigan left. As a fan of a team who would like those teams to lose I hate it, because I can't imagine Illinois beating any of those 4 teams with 6 guys, but there is a great chance they lose 4 more games because they are already thin.I didn't see that and my thought was that I wished tOSU played them a little later.
Torvik says even if they lost those 4 games, they'd be the top 7 seed, at 18-13. This is where I hate the predictive metrics when it comes to selection. They would have 3 Top 40 wins, all home/neutral. One Top 60 road win, on January 2 at Oregon
Hunter Dickinson has made a lot of money for a guy who was good as a 20 year old freshman in the COVID bubble, and then helped his next 4 teams underachieveWhat a weird career. Like he has been in terms of the playing of basketball pretty good to excellent for five years. But as said, hasn’t been on a particularly good team after that first year.
As I pointed out, their starting 4, who is #2 on the team in rebounds and #1 in blocks, broke his wrist. And they still have Purdue, Wisconsin and Michigan left. As a fan of a team who would like those teams to lose I hate it, because I can't imagine Illinois beating any of those 4 teams with 6 guys, but there is a great chance they lose 4 more games because they are already thin.Six guys? It looks like they’re fully healthy rotation went to eight or nine deep?
Torvik says even if they lost those 4 games, they'd be the top 7 seed, at 18-13. This is where I hate the predictive metrics when it comes to selection. They would have 3 Top 40 wins, all home/neutral. One Top 60 road win, on January 2 at Oregon
What a weird career. Like he has been in terms of the playing of basketball pretty good to excellent for five years. But as said, hasn’t been on a particularly good team after that first year.Do we know for sure?
Some of that feels like a question of supporting cast, but it’s not like the supporting casts have lacked for talent. And it’s not like Self is a bad coach. Just a productive player, who isn’t quite the centerpiece of some messy teams
Six guys? It looks like they’re fully healthy rotation went to eight or nine deep?They were missing players. Underwood cancelled the handshake line because almost all of his players are sick.
Do we know for sure?I was sort of skeptical too, but apparently other coaches speak highly of him in terms of tactics and program building.
Now that everyone is getting paid above the table, he's not so hot.
They were missing players. Underwood cancelled the handshake line because almost all of his players are sick.They played 7 last night, and an eighth started, but I think ended up too sick to go.
Six guys? It looks like they’re fully healthy rotation went to eight or nine deep?They only played 7 against MSU, and Johnson was one of them. because of constant injuries and illness, they've had to go to some other guys, but fully functioning, it's 7 sometimes 8, and now one is her
They only played 7 against MSU, and Johnson was one of them. because of constant injuries and illness, they've had to go to some other guys, but fully functioning, it's 7 sometimes 8, and now one is herAhh.
maryland looking good so farTheyve looked good all year. They had their west coast trip early, but Queen is the best NBA prospect in the conference. They also have some legit money that this year is going to convince them to buy in
In ESPN/Lunardi's update this morning Ohio State dropped to a #10 seed but still isn't "on the bubble". I think that is optimistic. IMHO, the blowout home loss to Northwestern was catastrophic. First off, it hit the "bad loss" trifecta:I don't get the Lunardi thing, unless the collapse of the ACC is just having them really short teams.Beyond that, Ohio State now has 12 losses (15-12) with a two-game west coast road trip ahead. That makes it extremely likely that the Buckeye's current two-game losing streak (and 4 of 6) will stretch into a four-game losing streak (and 6 of 8) with a record of 7-11/15-14 by the time the Buckeyes get home to face Nebraska.
- It was to a bad team, and
- It wasn't close, and
- It was at home.
Finally, the blowout home loss to Northwestern destroyed what I thought was the Buckeyes' best argument. Prior to that, their worst loss was a one-point OT home loss to Indiana. Indiana isn't great but they are a borderline Tournament team at 6-9/15-11 and that was a close loss. Northwestern is 5-11/14-13 and the loss was by 21 freaking points. So now the Buckeyes have a bad loss just like all the other bubble teams. They no longer stand out there.
As I see it the most likely scenario is:
- L at UCLA on Sunday (2/23): 7-10/15-13
- L at USC on Wednesday (2/26): 7-11/15-14
- W vs UNL on Tuesday (3/4): 8-11/16-14
- L at Indiana on Saturday (3/8): 8-12/16-15
If the Buckeyes lose out and finish 7-13/15-16:
The Buckeyes would need to win the BTT to get into the dance because even losing the CG would leave them at 19-17 and that wouldn't be enough.
If they go 1-3 (most likely) and finish 8-12/16-15:
*MAYBE* a run to the CG would be enough. That would be 20-16 overall. Twenty is usually enough wins but 16 is usually too many losses so this seems like a possibility but not a guarantee.
If they go 2-2 and finish 9-11/17-14:
Now we are talking. The BTT is harder to project because at 9-11 they might not have to play on Wednesday. Given their need for wins they would probably be better off playing on Wednesday. In any case, I think they'd need two BTT wins to feel safe at 19-15 but they might sneak in at 18-15.
If they go 3-1 and finish 10-10/18-13:
I think they'd be a lock because their SoS would likely get them in at 18-14 but they would feel completely comfortable at 19-14.
If they win out and finish 11-9/19-12:
They are a lock.
@ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) , @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) , anyone else please check my thinking above and tell me if I'm too high or too low on my team. Thank you.
I don't get the Lunardi thing, unless the collapse of the ACC is just having them really short teams.
As I've said, my gut is 3 games over .500 is probably cooked. Four depends on how things shake out, but not promising, five tends to be in, give or take other scheduling factors.
OSU's current resume looks a tad dicy. You're talking 5-8 Q1, 7-12 top two quads, although they've avoided a Q3/Q4 loss. That's solid enough, probably not unreal strong (although the top three wins are rather nice). If they go 3-1, you add two Q1 wins, so that helps, but 18-14 still feels dicy. So I'd say they'd like to get to 19 by hook or by crook.
A few years back, UW got left out at 17-14 with a 5-7 record in Quad 1 games, 11-13 in Q2, a Q3 loss and a dreadful NET ranking. OSU might be tougher on the wins side, but doesn't have the NET or Q3 issues. The bubble just also might be much different than past seasons.
Torvik projects OSU to lose all 3 road games, and still get in, but in Dayton, as long as they win one in the BTT.First, thank you @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) and @bayareabadger (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1571) .
So its dicey, but 2-4 still seems enough.
The ACC is way down, the pac-12 no longer exists, and the middle of the Big East looks as blah as last year, when they only got 3 bids
Huskers could use a road win in C-BusHuskers and Buckeyes are the two teams in the B1G closest to the bubble 🫧 so that game will be big. It could be an elimination game for one or both.
Big MSU win. Saw the limits of zoning them up. A good passing team can punish that pretty good. (Also a few guys started hitting 3s).Tre Holloman getting more PT as a result of Fears getting exposed by the zone against Indiana has been a very positive development.
You can both see why Oregon is going to end up a 20-win team and why they lost five in a row at one point.Wisconsin blew a big lead as Oregon rallied and won in OT. Point stands.
They have pieces and aren't badly coached, but they lack a certain consistency.
Weird game. Basically played perfectly fine for a healthy majority, then just started throwing up on the court. And even then, if they make two more plays, they’re fine.Still play MSU, which will either make or end their chances most likely
Likely fumbled annd outside chance at a conference title, which is annoying.
Still play MSU, which will either make or end their chances most likelyI think they're cooked.
You can both see why Oregon is going to end up a 20-win team and why they lost five in a row at one point.I was actually thinking when watching Dana Altman interviewed during the Iowa game earlier, what is his legacy? I think he's substantially underrated.
They have pieces and aren't badly coached, but they lack a certain consistency.
Tre Holloman getting more PT as a result of Fears getting exposed by the zone against Indiana has been a very positive development.Was watching an MSU basketball YouTube breakdown of the last three games. Obviously they turned a 16 point deficit into a 14 point win at Illinois. But watching how Purdue and Michigan guarded the rolls in the first half vs. the second half, I think you are seeing MSU's depth creating an issue. Both Kaufmann-Redd and Goldin were getting repeatedly killed in the second halves on some pretty simply action.
Wolf and Goldin are a PITA, but they have to get SOMETHING from their backcourt, and they didn't last night. Their starting PG was a -26 in +/-
I think they're cooked.For the conference title? Probably. It’s annoying, but not the end of the world.
For the conference title? Probably. It’s annoying, but not the end of the world.Ive always put a lot of stock in regular season Big Ten titles. With 18 teams, not sure how much I care anymore.
Ive always put a lot of stock in regular season Big Ten titles. With 18 teams, not sure how much I care anymore.I mean, I care and I would like to have one a lot, but I’ve seen a lot of seasons without one, so I’m not gonna freak out.
I still care, just not sure where. BTT banners rank about like winning a Battle 4 Atlantis, and are only decreasing. But regular season banners feel more and more schedule based, on one hand. But on the other hand, schedules are arguably more balanced now than with 14. You only have 3 double plays, schedule imbalance is more about who you get H/A vs. who you play.
Id be curious to see medinas tier breakdown of how many projected W/L you missed
Uh, Purdue?Indiana may play their way into the Tournament.
Indiana may play their way into the Tournament.I'm done saying what games Indiana "should" win. They have 3 wins in the past 6 weeks, @OSU, @MSU, Purdue
This win gives them a quality win and moves them to 16-11/7-9.
They should beat Penn State at home on Wednesday to move to 17-11/8-9.
Ive always put a lot of stock in regular season Big Ten titles. With 18 teams, not sure how much I care anymore.@medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547)
I still care, just not sure where. BTT banners rank about like winning a Battle 4 Atlantis, and are only decreasing. But regular season banners feel more and more schedule based, on one hand. But on the other hand, schedules are arguably more balanced now than with 14. You only have 3 double plays, schedule imbalance is more about who you get H/A vs. who you play.
Id be curious to see medinas tier breakdown of how many projected W/L you missed
I never set up tiers this year because it just feels too random.I agree, but using the tiers just to determine who got the easiest schedule, based on how many projected W/L were missed? I thought we had...
There have always been upsets but it seems that it has been getting more and more unpredictable.
I mean, I care and I would like to have one a lot, but I’ve seen a lot of seasons without one, so I’m not gonna freak out.Is it just basketball, or is it just a Greg Gard coached team?
But if this game decides that, I will be more irritated,
Is it just basketball, or is it just a Greg Gard coached team?I always find this logic a bit winding and hard to pin down.
I think he's done a great job this year, and he's done a very good job since taking over the program, but this kind of loss is a given for his teams. You just know it's lurking out there--including very likely during the first two rounds of the NCAA tourney...
On the other hand, I wish I had the same view of Fickell's football program (so far) as I do of Gard's basketball program.
I always find this logic a bit winding and hard to pin down.That's a fair criticism. I'll put it this way: I have never felt comfortable that Wisconsin will necessarily win a game under the Gard regime, until very late in that particular game, no matter the quality of opponent. Never. Losing a 15-point, second half lead, at home, against a good, but not great Oregon team is entirely consistent with what I expect. That feels like a different kind of a loss than coming out flat on the road against a middling team (Bo Ryan losses).
I watched a lot of Bo Ryan teams. And through the years, they had plenty of losses that pissed me off a great deal. Is this kind of loss special to Greg Gard, but unheard of with Bo or Dick Bennett? I’m not sure, but I’m skeptical, in part because “this kind of loss” is not really well defined.
That's a fair criticism. I'll put it this way: I have never felt comfortable that Wisconsin will necessarily win a game under the Gard regime, until very late in that particular game, no matter the quality of opponent. Never. Losing a 15-point, second half lead, at home, against a good, but not great Oregon team is entirely consistent with what I expect. That feels like a different kind of a loss than coming out flat on the road against a middling team (Bo Ryan losses).I think that’s fair, and it’s tough because there are so many variables.
Of course all coaches lose games it feels like they should win. And maybe its just recency bias, or maybe I just don't watch enough basketball to have a solid base to work from, but it has always felt like Gard's teams are just a little more unpredictable than Bo Ryan or Dick Bennett teams. Bennett just coached ugly, defensive basketball--nearly all of those games were close, boring, and could go either way.
There's an optimistic way to think about it, too. Wisconsin feels like it rarely has the really talented wunderkinds that shinier athletic programs tend to attract, and yet Gard has them much further up the conference table than the "experts" tend to predict. Maybe the reason they sometimes lose games like this is they aren't, player for player, that much better than anyone else, they are just better coached. But the coach doesn't actually control the floor, he just makes suggestions.
I don't know--but my gut feeling (as unprovable and logically unsound as it may be) is that Gard's teams have at least one--and often more--of these head shakers a year--and they are consistently bigger head shakers than Bo Ryan had.
I was also on campus when the Badgers made their first NCAA tournament in forever, so I still don't take tournament appearances for granted. But I would like to see this team win a couple in the tournament this time around. And I still hold my breath every time I watch or check the scoreboard.
Is it just basketball, or is it just a Greg Gard coached team?
I think he's done a great job this year, and he's done a very good job since taking over the program, but this kind of loss is a given for his teams. You just know it's lurking out there--including very likely during the first two rounds of the NCAA tourney...
On the other hand, I wish I had the same view of Fickell's football program (so far) as I do of Gard's basketball program.
I always find this logic a bit winding and hard to pin down.If you are here looking for an outsider perspective, it follows. If not and you just want to keep this an inter-Badger discussion, ignore what follows and carry on:
I watched a lot of Bo Ryan teams. And through the years, they had plenty of losses that pissed me off a great deal. Is this kind of loss special to Greg Gard, but unheard of with Bo or Dick Bennett? I’m not sure, but I’m skeptical, in part because “this kind of loss” is not really well defined.
-the sport has changed on the court in the sense that everyone shoots a lot more and it creates more variabilityTHIS!
THIS!I blame Chirs Holtman
My own team:
- Ohio State shot ~50% from three and won AT Purdue
- Ohio State shot <20% from three and lost AT HOME to Northwestern
These results simply don't make sense. Ohio State (7-10) is a middling to slightly below middling B1G team. They shouldn't have won at 11-6 Purdue and they shouldn't have lost at home to 5-11 Northwestern but they live and die by the three. On a good night, they can take out Purdue in West Lafayette and on a bad night they can lose badly to Northwestern in Columbus.
I don't mean to take credit away from Northwestern nor to give Purdue a free pass but I honestly don't think either of those results had much to do with what Purdue/Northwestern did or didn't do. You simply can't defend the whole court and aggressively defending long-range shots has it's own inherent dangers: During Ohio State's game against Michigan there was a possession during which Ohio State was down two and looking to tie or take the lead. Mobley (our freshman sharpshooter) launched a shot from about the third row and the Michigan defender ran in late to try to challenge it. The defender didn't get there in time to alter the shot (which missed) but he jumped and came down on Mobley and was thus called for a foul about 50' from the hoop. Mobley then walked to the line and hit three-straight free throws to take the lead.
FWIW: In the Buckeyes' game against Wisconsin they hit ~30% of their threes which is a bit under their season average of 36.9% and lost in Madison by two. If the Buckeyes had hit close to 50% like they did against Purdue they probably would have won. If they had hit <20% like they did against Northwestern, Wisconsin would have blown them out. I really don't think that there is a lot Wisconsin could do about that either way.
check Michigan's 3-point percentage in their win at Nebraska last nightMichigan wins every game within one possessions, and loses every game decided comfortably.
Well, you don't have to shoot a high percentage when the opponent doesn't scoreIowa football would kill for the kind of points your guys put up last night
Badgers smush the Huskies, but do so with a starter tweaking his lower leg.That happened long ago. He's been playing on it. Now is the time to let him sit and play McGee more.
Next up, MSU on the road.
Iowa football would kill for the kind of points your guys put up last nightIowa basketball could have used a punter last night
OSU shooting pretty well tonightThey managed to achieve a split out in LA.
They managed to achieve a split out in LA.Mick Cronin pointed out something similar earlier this year. Maybe it was the Michigan loss? That Michigan had been in town after playing USC, but UCLA had just played 2 days earlier at Indiana, so Michigan actually had the travel advantage.
I pointed out before the season that Ohio State had a possible travel advantage against USC because Ohio State's last game was on Sunday across town while USC's was on Sunday . .
Of note, yesterday’s bonkers finish in Maryland, Spartans are in the drivers seat for a league title.Drivers seat but Michigan still controls their own destiny as they are tied in the loss column and those two teams finish against each other.
Odd season for them, but they’ve been nails on defense and finding the way to finish out games.
I put out my 18 team proposal earlier, and the fact its 15 and not 16, is weird, if you aren't allowing everyone. My only other thought at 15 is to give #9 a bye as well, because they did their math and figured #9 is going to be a bad team squarely on the bubble who can't help themselves by beating the #16 team, but can end their chances by losing to themI'm totally guessing but I don't *THINK* this is it for a few reasons:
They keep treating not making the BTT like European soccer relegation. Sorry, no. Those fan bases are done with this year. Maybe they get 2 more meaningless games, with both players and coaches having eyes on the portal. Soccer relegation keeps the bottom interesting, not because of what happens this year, but because it impacts them next year.I read they just voted on that and 15 won. Which is weird.
If they 3 schools who missed the Big Ten went to the MAC next year, then you'd have something.
I put out my 18 team proposal earlier, and the fact its 15 and not 16, is weird, if you aren't allowing everyone. My only other thought at 15 is to give #9 a bye as well, because they did their math and figured #9 is going to be a bad team squarely on the bubble who can't help themselves by beating the #16 team, but can end their chances by losing to them
I read they just voted on that and 15 won. Which is weird.It does seem weird. As @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) pointed out 16 would seem to make more sense. However, if they followed their usual time structure, the Wednesday games would be:
Michigan wins every game within one possessions, and loses every game decided comfortably.And the trend continued with Michigan beating Rutgers at home last night by . . . two points.
Over Michigan's last 10 games they are 8-2, with a regulation +/- of -18. That's almost impossible to do. Their 2 losses are by 27 to Purdue and by 13 to MSU. And their 8 wins were all by 4 points or less.
I believe this is 2 possessions or lessThis is just an unbelievable level of being good or lucky (probably both) in close games. Note that:
(https://i.imgur.com/FzzriKA.png)
It's not just how good they are, but how good, on that high volume. If you assume you will go .500, UCLA's winning percentage is also well above average, but if they had performed "as expected", they have 2 fewer wins. They'd be 9-8, instead of 11-6. Michigan should be 6-6, which means they would also be 9-8, instead of 14-3.Agreed. It makes them REALLY hard to project because the juxtaposition between being basically an average team in terms of efficiency but being best-in-the-league in terms of W/L is a circle that is hard to square.
I think that's why the predictive numbers don't love them. The resume ones do.
With the home loss to Minnesota, if Nebraska isn't in "must-win" territory from here out they are certainly close.I think they are
What is a good basketball season for your team?Good is an interesting term there.
For UGA, making the tourney is an excellent (and unusual) season, even if they lose game one.
This afternoon‘s game between the Spartans and Badgers feels like one that is kind of all upside for UW.I was thinking the road team had done oddly well recently, so I looked it up.
If Wisconsin wins, it’s a nice feather in the cap game. If they lose, well, it’s really hard to win in East Lansing.
What is a good basketball season for your team?For Purdue, making the tourney is baseline expectation. Matt Painter was probably on the edge of getting fired after the 2013-14 season, given it was his second consecutive missed tourney (and a 12th [last] place B1G finish).
For UGA, making the tourney is an excellent (and unusual) season, even if they lose game one.
Honestly kinda at peace with that one. If MSU is gonna pop some 3s, you’re in trouble. If UW is gonna miss a mess of open ones, also trouble.The Goofs will not be an easy game.
With the Breslin whistle, you usually have to be on Ps and Qs to win there. UW wasn’t, but also did enough good things to be in it most of the day.
Some stuff to clean up. Now time to take care of business with the last two.
The Goofs will not be an easy game.Having a good year in the big ten ain’t easy.
What is a good basketball season for your team?Sweet 16.
What is a good basketball season for your team?I won't say sweet 16, which is the most stereotypical floor to declare.
For UGA, making the tourney is an excellent (and unusual) season, even if they lose game one.
Michigan's +/- vs. record just got a lot crazierI came here to post about this because it is nuts.
9-3 in their past 12, with a +/- of -36
I came here to post about this because it is nuts.I think UW is 9-3 in its last 12 and maybe plus-100 or so.
We were ready ti pretty much stick a fork in Illinois and it looked like Michigan was smooth sailing to a league title and then . . .
The Illini waltzed out of Crisler with a 20 point win.
Say what?
I think UW is 9-3 in its last 12 and maybe plus-100 or so.Tonje is the POTY though right?
What is a good basketball season for your team?Others here have referenced this but I'm going to say it more bluntly, I view the season and the tournament as almost completely separate for this purpose.
Its funny how preseason expectations work. Two years ago, MSU was a bubble team, who got in as a 10 seed, won 2 games and lost in the Sweet 16. So the expectations were that a Sweet 16 team, who returned everyone should be a top 5 team. Except they were like the #40 team, who won an essential tossup, and then pulled one upset, that just happened to be in MarchI think the key has to be that the returning starters are pretty good. MSU had a lot of guys who were tapped out, maybe lower ceilinged and one guy who just never put it together.
They had no pros, which is why they returned everyone. And then they basically had the same season
They graduated their best 3 players, but none were pros. So no expectations this year. But they have had two kids vastly overachieve, so now they are probably a 2 seed. I think in the transfer portal era we need to reevaluate what having returning starters means. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's also no longer necessarily a good thing. MSU took a leap this year because Jace Richardson came in and looks like a one and done, rather than at least a 3 year player (he was around the #50 recruit), and Coen Carr, who was a 3/4* kid, who didnt project to be a pro, is now also likely gone after this year
2 more wins is the ceilingSince this post, MSU has:
I won't say sweet 16, which is the most stereotypical floor to declare.BTW I wouldn't ever call S16 a "floor".
This might set a record for attendance in Dayton. Both West Virginia and Ohio State are reasonably close so both fanbases would likely be pretty well represented.
- #12 West Virginia/OHIO STATE
I think you are missing a play-in game.
- #5 Texas A&M vs. #12 West Virginia/OHIO STATE
- #1 Houston vs. #16 Southern/Bucknell
- #5 Saint Mary’s vs. #12 INDIANA/Oklahoma
I think you are missing a play-in game.SE Missouri State should be pkaying Merrimack
I didn't watch the games because, Peacock.I didnt see it either, but it says that headline is from cornnation.com, so...
I don't have an opinion
this is the headline I see this morning............
Nebraska MBB Recap: Huskers Jobbed by Refs in 116-114 Double OT Loss
yup, ya gotta expect some home cookin on the roadThe same it always was
UNL and Hoiberg are complete trashSo they'll get in as a #20 seed
so, it doesn't matter
Once they expand the tournament, all the P4 needs to do is not be complete trash, and the regular season will become completely meaninglessDid I miss something? Is there a credible NCAA Tournament Expansion proposal being advanced?
Or they could, ya know, leave it the F alone.LoL. I get the sentiment. Frankly I think they should have left it the F alone instead of adding the play-in games but that ship already sailed.
Did I miss something? Is there a credible NCAA Tournament Expansion proposal being advanced?Credible? Nothing has been released, but it pretty clear its happening next year. Because they've decided to give shitty P4 schools a 20th chance.
My own preference would be to expand by 12 teams to 80. My 80-team format would be as follows:
First Weekend:
Thursday/Friday:Saturday/Sunday:
- Eight locations
- Four locations per day
- Two games per location
- Eight games per day, total of 16 games to get down to 64
Monday/Tuesday:
- Eight locations
- Four locations per day
- Four games per location
- 16 games per day, total of 32 games to get down to 32
- Eight locations
- Four locations per day
- Two games per location
- Eight games per day, total of 16 games to get down to the S16
One of the big advantages of this format is that it moves the Tournament's busiest two days from Thursday/Friday as now to the weekend when more people can watch. I think that would improve ratings. Additionally, with only eight games per day on Thursday/Friday and Monday/Tuesday, I believe that the bulk of them could be played when at least most of the country is off work. My schedule would be:
- 3pm, game #1 at an EST location
- 4pm, game #1 at another EST location
- 530pm, game #2 at the location of game #1
- 630pm, game #2 at the location of game #2
- 7pm, game #1 at any location
- 8pm, game #1 at a MST/PST location
- 930pm, game #2 at the location of game #5
- 1030pm, game #2 at the location of game #6
I think that the NCAAT games would be better and more competitive. As it stands, there is a dramatic drop-off in performance after the #12 seeds. The #12 and above have each won at least 1/3 of their games but #13 seeds have only one about one-in-five and it gets worse below there. Obviously part of this is because lower seeds play higher and thus better opponents but I believe that a bigger part is that you run out of actually deserving teams at roughly the #11 or #12 seeds. All you have after that are "tallest midgets" and those midgets get increasingly less impressive the further you go. Expanding to 80 teams would force the "tallest midgets" to play a game before you sent them out against the best teams in the Country. This would weed out the weakest of them and provide better opposition for the opening games for the #1-4 seeds.
It would give all conferences and all teams at least one winnable tournament game each year. As it is the #16 seeds have only ever won twice in 156 tries (1.28% or one in 78). #15's are slightly better with 11 wins but that is still only 7% while #14's have 23 wins (15%) and #13's have 33 wins (21%). Some one-bid leagues are nearly always #15 or #16 seeds and haven't won an NCAA game in years.
As a bubble team, Ohio State this year is a prime example. The Buckeyes are squarely on the bubble so regular season games are very important for them in terms of making it or not. It is only relevant in terms of Ohio State making it or not and consequently it is relevant for a few other bubble teams because the spots are finite so if tOSU does, somebody else doesn't. None of that matters in terms of the NC because neither tOSU nor the other bubble teams jockeying with them for position are capable of winning the whole thingI mean VCU made a national championship game when they shouldn't have gotten in. Anyone who gets in can make it. Sorry, but OSU sucks this year, and under any expanded format they would be comfortably in, which is laughable
Credible? Nothing has been released, but it pretty clear its happening next year. Because they've decided to give shitty P4 schools a 20th chance.The Oklahoma example is an outlier. Ohio State is close to .500 in the league and close to the bubble. That is always my assumption, if we are on the right side of .500 in the league we'll be safely in. If we are right at .500 or a game or two either way, we'll be on the bubble. If we are under .500 we'll be out.
They keep noting about how much D1 has grown since they went to 64. Except it hasn't grown by competitive teams. The teams that have been added to D1 since they went to 64 have a 12% winning percentage in the tournament, and it's closer to 8% if you eliminate the games where they go head to head in play in games.
It's just about coaches of shitty P4 teams trying to keep their jobs by saying they made the tournament. It's already WAY too easy for P4 teams to make the tournament. An Oklahoma team who is currently 4-12 in the SEC is on the bubble. It basically is just to guarantee that every P4 team can make it, because it takes a special kind of shitty to not make it as is
Sorry, but OSU sucks this year, and under any expanded format they would be comfortably in, which is laughableI mean, I'm obviously not happy with Ohio State's performance this year but they are playing Indiana this weekend with a chance to finish .500 in the league.
I mean, I'm obviously not happy with Ohio State's performance this year but they are playing Indiana this weekend with a chance to finish .500 in the league.So you think .500 teams playing for a shot at a national title means we need to expand access?
That certainly isn't great but I think it is above "sucks", I think it is mediocre.
The consolidation of power conferences has made expanding the tournament deeply useless. It was a bad idea before, but if it’s just gonna keep adding schools from big leagues with worse and worse records, entirely not worth bothering.This.
So you think .500 teams playing for a shot at a national title means we need to expand access?In football I look at it this way because historically every regular season game mattered.
This.This, specifically the bolded part is a separate issue and one that I agree with you on.
Every P4 team with a pulse will get in. An Oklahoma team that is 4-12 in conference play is on the bubble, and at 5-13 is likely in. Any P4 team can get in by scheduling like shit and then winning 25% of their league games, because they dont get dinged for losses
Wisconsin needs Illinois to beat Purdue for a chance of the double bye. Otherwise, a win can only get them the five seed (unless Maryland just throws up all over itself against Northwestern)What if Michigan upsets the Spartans?
Badgers had a kind of gritty win against Minnesota yesterday. They were in sharp, although it wouldn’t have mattered if they hit a couple more open threes. Shooting has been a little dicey last week.
This.Yup, one reason I pay almost no attention. UGA now apparently is off the bubble no matter what happens from here.
Every P4 team with a pulse will get in. An Oklahoma team that is 4-12 in conference play is on the bubble, and at 5-13 is likely in. Any P4 team can get in by scheduling like shit and then winning 25% of their league games, because they dont get dinged for losses
What if Michigan upsets the Spartans?Badger quants have been on this. UW loses basically every tiebreaker.
That takes the Wolverines out of the tie which helps Wisconsin because the Badgers were 0-1 against Michigan.
Assume a three-way tie for 3/4/5 between Maryland, Purdue, and Wisconsin:Then we drop to record against the best team(s) which is MSU unless they lose at Iowa in which case it is the two Michigan schools.
- Wisconsin is 1-1, beat PU lost to UMD
- Purdue is 1-1, beat UMD, lost to UW
- Maryland is 1-1, beat UW lost to PU
Nevermind, that doesn't help because Wisconsin's record against Michigan still takes them out.
Badger quants have been on this. UW loses basically every tiebreaker.I realize that now. It seems the only tie they'd win would be a two-way tie with Purdue so yeah, they need to pull for the Illini.
For Iowa this is close to a must-win in terms of making the B1G Tournament. With a loss they'd be in 16th place and a game down on a five-way tie for 11th-15th. They could theoretically still catch up but they'd need all kinds of help.Apparently this game is irrelevant to the BTT hopes based upon a podcast I was listening to. They have to beat Nebraska because of how it impacts tiebreakers. If they split, but the win is MSU, they are out, if they split, but the win is over Nebraska, they are in.
Apparently this game is irrelevant to the BTT hopes based upon a podcast I was listening to. They have to beat Nebraska because of how it impacts tiebreakers. If they split, but the win is MSU, they are out, if they split, but the win is over Nebraska, they are in.I hadn't thought that far ahead but that makes sense. If they beat Nebraska they are either tied with them (loss to MSU) or ahead of them (win over MSU) and the win would give them the tiebreaker so it doesn't matter and they are in.
However, winning both could jump them all the way up to #11?
Survived the PTSD endingCongratulations to 2025 outright B1G Champions, Michigan State
The local jabber jocks on the radio were talking about football schools with horrendous basketball programs. They determined that OSU was the poster boy for this phenomenon, even though they erroneously gifted us a basketball NC in the early 2000s that we didn't actually win.They are far from the best example of this. They have a top 15 basketball program.
:cheer:
They are far from the best example of this. They have a top 15 basketball program.People have such short memories. Ohio State's BB program was hot garbage for the entirety of the Chris Holtmann era along with the dying days of Matta's tenure so that is what they remember.
Alabama just made their first ever Final 4 last year. I don't think Tennessee has ever made one. USC? Nebraska? Georgia? Michigan doesn't belong with those schools, but OSU has had a better basketball program than them. I'd argue that of the great football programs, certainly of the helmets, OSU has the BEST basketball program
I have to root for Illinois tonight and don’t like it.I don't like that either ... Boiler Up!
UGA has one Final Four, the year after Dominique Wilkins graduated. UGA would be on the list of largest disparity between CFB and BB (not including programs with no CFB).The gap the other direction is larger. Which makes sense, because football seems to lift the whole athletic department, while basketball doesn't. The best basketball schools historically are honestly the worst football programs. Duke, Kansas, UConn, Kentucky, Indiana, Arizona.
The gap the other direction is larger. Which makes sense, because football seems to lift the whole athletic department, while basketball doesn't. The best basketball schools historically are honestly the worst football programs. Duke, Kansas, UConn, Kentucky, Indiana, Arizona.You could also throw in teams like Gonzaga on this side of course. I think Nebraska historically has had the largest gap in the other direction. Several SEC teams would be close. Vandy historically is the pastry in SEC football. UK is probably second.
Florida is really fucking good this year. Wins @ Auburn and @ Alabama. Should get a 1 seed and not sweat until the Elite 8.Congrats on being the 3rd #1 seed to lose
We'll see.
Un f'ing real. Way to shit the bed.Exactly. It was brutal to watch. The shooting percentage. Aye-yi-yi. 35%? Marginally better than their 3-pt shooting.
(https://i.imgur.com/XAvj7Gb.png)
Exactly. It was brutal to watch. The shooting percentage. Aye-yi-yi. 35%? Marginally better than their 3-pt shooting.I didn't watch but, it appears the 2nd half defense let you down
I hate to be mean to college athletes, because we all know they shouldn't be in college, but none of us could dunk a basketball. But today was the first Ive heard Mark Sears speak, and man, Im not sure he would be eligible on my sons 5th grade teamSame for RB Dalvin Cook, who went to FSU. He sounded so bad, I (wrongly) predicted he wouldn't even stay on the team enough to finish his football career.
I hate to be mean to college athletes, because we all know they shouldn't be in college, but none of us could dunk a basketball. But today was the first Ive heard Mark Sears speak, and man, Im not sure he would be eligible on my sons 5th grade teamI have no idea his academics, but the older I’ve gotten, the more I have become convinced that someone’s ability to sound smooth as a speaker, especially extemporaneously, is not a good proxy for their academic intelligence.
I have no idea his academics, but the older I’ve gotten, the more I have become convinced that someone’s ability to sound smooth as a speaker, especially extemporaneously, is not a good proxy for their academic intelligence.I think there is a decent correlation, but not without the usual exceptions. It certainly helps a lot in public if one can speak "smoothly".
Its hard for him to win it at this point, but this might be the perfect confluence to get Izzo CCOTYHe completely deserves it.
I think there is a decent correlation, but not without the usual exceptions. It certainly helps a lot in public if one can speak "smoothly".I’ve run into too many situations where someone is some degree of quiet/a poor speaker/has a thick accent and they don’t come off very well. And then I will talk to someone else who is smooth and charming but I later figure out is academically very deficient.
There are times when a person is nervous, not used to be on TV etc.
Danny Wolf just made his first basket, down 24 with 14 minutes left. I think he has hit a bit of a wall the past couple weeks. that's a lot of high usage minutes for a 7 footerI noticed it during the Minnesota loss that something just seemed off with him and it’s gone down hill since. The usage could certainly be it, but I also think all the attention on him added to it.
I noticed it during the Minnesota loss that something just seemed off with him and it’s gone down hill since. The usage could certainly be it, but I also think all the attention on him added to it.@SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) , genuine question:
I'm fairly certain the seeds are as follows (the league will probably officially release them by the time I finish typing this but I want to make sure I understand the tiebreakers so I'm taking a stab at it anyway):Everything was finalized once the Minnesota-Rutgers game went final. They were showing the bracket during the Oregon-Washington game
- 17-3 Michigan State
- 14-6 Maryland (wins tie over M based on H2H, won in Ann Arbor)
- 14-6 Michigan
- 13-7 UCLA (H2H2H is all tied up at 1-1, UCLA wins based on record against MSU)
- 13-7 Wisconsin (wins tie over PU based on H2H, won in West Lafayette)
- 13-7 Purdue
- 12-8 Illinois (wins tie with Oregon based on H2H)
- 12-8 Oregon
- 10-10 Indiana
- 9-11 Ohio State
- 8-12 Rutgers
- 7-13 Minnesota
- 7-13 Northwestern
- 7-13 Southern California
- 7-13 Iowa
- 7-13 Nebraska
- 6-14 Penn State
- 4-15 Washington
The five-way tie at 7-13 is broken as follows:
First H2H2H2H2H:
[img width=274.381 height=70]https://i.imgur.com/ZnvNoQu.png[/img]
Thus Minnesota gets the #12 seed, Northwestern gets the #13 seed, and Nebraska gets left out at #16. Southern California and Iowa revert to the two-team H2H tiebreaker and USC beat Iowa so USC gets #14 and Iowa gets #15.
Thus, the BTT match-ups are:
Wednesday Peacock:
- #10 Ohio State vs #15 Iowa, 6pm
- #11 Rutgers vs #14 Southern California, 830
- #12 Minnesota vs #13 Northwestern, 330
Thursday BTN:
- #5 Wisconsin vs MN/NU, 230
- #6 Purdue vs RU/USC, 9pm
- #7 Illinois vs tOSU/IA, 630
- #8 Oregon vs #9 Indiana, noon
Friday BTN:
- #1 Michigan State vs Ore/IU, noon
- #2 Maryland vs IL/tOSU/IA, 630
- #3 Michigan vs PU/RU/USC, 8pm
- #4 UCLA vs UW/MN/NU, 230
Everything was finalized once the Minnesota-Rutgers game went final. They were showing the bracket during the Oregon-Washington gameI actually had known that previously and should have realized it because I stated a couple days ago that Oregon/Washington didn't matter because Oregon lost a tie with Illinois anyway so Illinois had #7 locked down either outright (Oregon loses) or by tiebreaker (Oregon wins).
If you do that, might as well reseed when you go to the neutral siteQuestion:
I am surprised IU is not in ... do you guys think they have to beat Oregon to lock up a spot in the tourney.According to Lundardi the B1G has three Bubble Teams:
On a side note, famous last words, but I really like Purdue's draw, winner of USC/Rutgers, then Michigan (who is in a funk) .. obviously gets tough from there, but the semis are always a tough match up.It looks good for them right now but these things can turn on a dime. Who knows if whatever is ailing Michigan will get resolved between now and Indianapolis.
That is purely based off 2/3 SOR and 1/3 KenPom.To expand on this, here are NET, KenPom, and BPI (sorted by NET) heading into the BTT for the B1G (format is B1G Net Rank, NET Rank, School, KenPom Rank, BPI rank):
Their resume still isn't great, and OSU still gets credit for some good wins early
They are far from the best example of this. They have a top 15 basketball program.A few years ago (so this is somewhat out of date) the AP did top-25 BB programs of all-time (https://sports.yahoo.com/ap-poll-college-basketball-rankings-022230492.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJruTldiYa6YvATTFPkNfQqIYpS9QJMtSIyOob2cvIz79HpS2Y1HzRG1dbzXhrcIJt2O0dSjKZvfsoupkEWTTzLdiI-8pYcF9U4LL6ZxYpGV3cmBVqXFNENM6WlC_QY0jvWxN5JVrgVnsWqYKGBVzaKmSl4z1Cmb3rtKadMqmnU5). Of the football "helmets:
Alabama just made their first ever Final 4 last year. I don't think Tennessee has ever made one. USC? Nebraska? Georgia? Michigan doesn't belong with those schools, but OSU has had a better basketball program than them. I'd argue that of the great football programs, certainly of the helmets, OSU has the BEST basketball program
so, we got that goin for us, ........... which is nice.https://youtu.be/CD7nwx8ASrw?si=08mKIP1Ddd68AG0f
Tomorrow's slate all on peacock:well, there's a chance for me since I'll be on the road and sitting at a bar tomorrow evening.
- #11 Minnesota vs #14 Northwestern, 330
- #10 Ohio State vs #15 Iowa, 6pm
- #12 Rutgers vs #13 USC, 830pm
I often do drop in on a session at the B1G tournament, there's no way it will be tomorrow's session. usually a hooky (matinee) session with day drinking. weather is so fantastic this week, I may bail on that altogether and play golf/fish instead.When I went to the BTT in Chicago back in 2015 I had tickets (because I bought the all session pass) and I was literally in town for the BTT and I still skipped the Wednesday night games. We went out and met nuwildcat (RIP Marcel) instead.
OSU gotta be dead, right?Yup.
Yup.He still sucked at Ohio State and even if Diebler isn't the right answer, Holtmann obviously wasn't the right answer so canning him was is and will always be the right decision.
And it looks like Chris Holtman will be playing on with DePaul into the Big East quarterfinals
About time Ben Johnson got the sack.Apparently a big donor made a commitment based on firing Johnson. Which I don't get, Minnesota had zero commitment, he wasn't the problem. Lowest NIL in the conference by a LARGE margin
Ever since spring 2017 and their token appearance in the NCAAs, the Gopher basketball program has been so resoundingly awful that I've lost interest in college basketball entirely.
Apparently a big donor made a commitment based on firing Johnson. Which I don't get, Minnesota had zero commitment, he wasn't the problem. Lowest NIL in the conference by a LARGE marginThe run-up to this firing felt a lot like spring 2006, when Dan Monson was circling the drain and it wasn't clear if Joel Maturi would actually fire him at the end of the season (Fucking hell, I'm old). Unlike then, Coyle actually pulled the trigger.
https://twitter.com/JustinThind/status/1900158898893709418
I've said for years that how there was no appetite in this town for NIL. While it's not as big of a problem in football, it's a huge mess for basketball.Ben Johnson was a man out of time.
I think Ben started a covert PR campaign in an attempt to save his job. The last few weeks have suddenly seen an outpouring of support from local media figures. The gist of their cases was "Ben should keep his job because he's a good man."
The run-up to this firing felt a lot like spring 2006, when Dan Monson was circling the drain and it wasn't clear if Joel Maturi would actually fire him at the end of the season (Fucking hell, I'm old). Unlike then, Coyle actually pulled the trigger.
Ben Johnson was a man out of time.Those Minnesota kids go to Madison. Minnesota is in-state recruiting, which is fine because Gard can't keep Wisconsin kids home.
he was more recruiter than tactician with the pitch of building and in-state heavy roster. And NIL makes that skill less useful, especially compared to maximizing the talent you have.
As for retaining him, his best year of 4 was 18-14, tied for 9th in the league with a soft non-conference. As much as I wanted them to keep him, it was just time.
Those Minnesota kids go to Madison. Minnesota is in-state recruiting, which is fine because Gard can't keep Wisconsin kids home.At some point, I should probably do a closer look on who is getting out and what the story is on those.
Fran ending his Iowa career with an ejwction feels right.I'm more surprised that he made it as long as he did without having a grand mal seizure on the sideline.
I dont blame him, Iowa is getting a horrible whistle
Today's Slate (all BTN):I think the teams are bunched enough, that I think the teams that played yesterday all win. That Game 2 vs. Game 1 advantage I think is real, and they are all top 25 teams right?
- #1 MSU -5.5 vs #8 Oregon, noon
- #4 UCLA +1.5 vs #5 UW, 2:30
- #2 Maryland -1.5 vs #7 Illinois, 6:30
- #3 Michigan +2.5 vs #6 Purdue, 9pm
Not to be too unoriginal but frankly I like all the favorites today.
I'd really like Wisconsin to be given a weekend in Milwaukee. I think they get it with a win over UCLA today.I doubt it. As I pointed out above:
As per usual there are too many Western sitesThis is a problem for #4 seeds from the EST and CST pretty much EVERY year. In Lunardi's projections:
I think the teams are bunched enough, that I think the teams that played yesterday all win. That Game 2 vs. Game 1 advantage I think is real, and they are all top 25 teams right?We've tracked this for years and I agree that Game 2 vs Game 1 has historically been an advantage but it didn't help anybody yesterday. Granted, maybe that is just because Northwestern, USC, and Iowa simply weren't good enough to take advantage.
I think the teams are bunched enough, that I think the teams that played yesterday all win. That Game 2 vs. Game 1 advantage I think is real, and they are all top 25 teams right?We originally identified this phenomenon with the #6 seed nearly always knocking off the #3 seed in the old (11-team) BTT. There were, however, a few contributing factors that should be considered:
I think UW can get to a 3 with a win today. That stupid PSU loss really hurt. Bad.That, IMHO, is the only thing that would give the Badgers a shot at playing their first-weekend NCAA games in-state. Even just getting a #3 seed, however, might not be enough. Getting a #3 would at least get them to Denver which isn't too bad but to actually get Milwaukee they might need to surpass either ISU or Kentucky. Maybe not because *maybe* if Wisconsin is a #3 seed then the committee would send ISU to Denver and UW to Milwaukee but there are no guarantees.
Game #2 boost wasn't enough for Oregon but certainly looking good for Wisconsin!I think UW is gonna get a 3 seed now. They dominated.
[img width=218.779 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/mlrNAoE.jpeg[/img]Iowa has fired Fran McCaffery.
Iowa has fired Fran McCaffery.Sounds like they want DeVries
Iowa better move fast if the want to hire Ben McCollom currently at Drake, because it sounds like he is a strong candidate for the Indiana job.
Another potential candidate might be Darian DeVries at WV. A native of the state of Iowa who was the Drake coach before McCollom.
I don't know who #50 is for Michigan, but when Purdue's "big" on the floor is TKR, whoever he is looks like a skinny Edey out there.FAU transfer, good shot shot blocking type. Originally played at Texas Tech. I think he might’ve been all-conference.
This is about an SEC team, but more about the larger picture. Texas won yesterday, and many articles were written how they went from the bubble to safely in, thanks to 2 upset wins over Vandy and A&M.You gotta put 64 teams in. They have a certain disinterest in smaller conference teams with less gaudy schedules. So this is the alternative.
Texas, with the 6-12 conference schedule.
I know roping in as many non-fans into the sport as humanly possible for a month is the most important thing.....but maybe let rational thought matter, too?
Today is a double-edged sword for Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin.Don't see any of the games costing them a seed. They all picked up big wins yesterday.
Win and you have to keep playing. Lose and you could maybe drop a seed.
Today is a double-edged sword for Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State and Wisconsin.Should probably try to win basketball games. The fatigue factor seems a spot overrated from one extra game.
Win and you have to keep playing. Lose and you could maybe drop a seed.
I recall reading an article about a decade back that there is a pretty bad track record for teams who (i) play 4+ games and (ii) finish on SundayI’d be interested the methodology there. Mostly because in a lot of lights, most teams in the tournament over a long stretch have a bad track record.
Obviously if you are on the bubble, keep winning. I can't imagine seeding is going to change for any of these teams now, particularly because the committee doesn't factor in the championship game. Maybe for Michigan, winning one more could get them to a 4?
I don't think anyone is saying to tank, but I'd rather be 100% going into next week than winning a tournament that I put about on par with the Battle 4 Atlantis
If MSU is gonna bang home a lot of 3s, this ain't gonna be much of a game.Short lived. Back to their track record.
Tonje not being POTY remains a jokeI think he has scored 14 of their past 16 points, and assisted on the 2 he didnt score
Tonje not being POTY remains a jokeAgree.
MSU has the refs.LOL, missed this
I'm not saying MSU got a bad whistle. But to complain in a game where you shoot MORE free throws, despite shooting 15 fewer 2 pointers is certainly a choiceEhh, I’d assume any team on the wrong end of that goal tend and tech will be a tad salty.
MSU leads the Big Ten in FT attempts per game, because they shoot so many 2s. Wisconsin shoots 18 per game in conference play. Today they shot 28. Sounds like they just called a lot of fouls
Ehh, I’d assume any team on the wrong end of that goal tend and tech will be a tad salty.I mean both teams can complain about calls. A soft whistle on a rebound effectively ended the game, and then a kid saying he was trying to foul, and then quickly correcting himself on another controversial call. But in complaining about the refs is in general soft. Particularly when you wound up with the advantage, despite doing none of the things that result in foul calls. Just want this board to be above complaining about refs. Wisconsin won, congrats. Tonje is comfortably the best player in this league, and should have been rewarded as such. If there is a beef to be had, it's over that. Tonje beat the best team in the league 1 on 5 today. Smith lost 1.5 on 5 last night
Plus it’s always just a bit annoying playing MSU, football on hardwood and such.
Ruben Jones is also a transfer?It’s a weird place to be as a fan, but it’s probably going to be a new normal so I’m trying to accept it. It’s like being a Duke fan. It’s a new wave of players every year. I’d prefer making players stay for 3 years minimum at one program, but my desires aren’t reality.
does Michigan have a single player that actually started at their school? I feel like being a Michigan basketball fan this year is like saying your favorite band is the traveling wilburys
It’s a weird place to be as a fan, but it’s probably going to be a new normal so I’m trying to accept it. It’s like being a Duke fan. It’s a new wave of players every year. I’d prefer making players stay for 3 years minimum at one program, but my desires aren’t reality.You don’t need to apologize.
I mean both teams can complain about calls. A soft whistle on a rebound effectively ended the game, and then a kid saying he was trying to foul, and then quickly correcting himself on another controversial call. But in complaining about the refs is in general soft. Particularly when you wound up with the advantage, despite doing none of the things that result in foul calls. Just want this board to be above complaining about refs. Wisconsin won, congrats. Tonje is comfortably the best player in this league, and should have been rewarded as such. If there is a beef to be had, it's over that. Tonje beat the best team in the league 1 on 5 today. Smith lost 1.5 on 5 last nightI’ll cop to it. I only watched the first half closely, second in bits at a bar. So I only lived and died with first half calls. Wouldn’t go into depth on the second half unless asked to (I gave the second half a watch, but wasn’t putting eyes on that)
First round opponent looks a bit odd, but not highly dangerous (though you never know). Second-round opponent is likely BYU, which is a lot of offense with some home court. Slightly irritating, but that's March.As per usual, too many Western sites.
As per usual, too many Western sites.Yeah, and honestly a dearth of Southern sites.
Five biggest "left-outs" according to YahooSports (https://sports.yahoo.com/college-basketball/article/2025-march-madness-here-are-the-5-biggest-ncaa-tournament-snubs-224004309.html):WVU was in all 111 of the brackets that comprise Bracket Matrix. First time a unanimous selection in BM has been left out of the tournament. That’s life as a WVU fan.
1. West Virginia (19-13) - in if they don't blow their conference tournament opener to B12 last place finisher Colorado
2. Indiana Hoosiers (19-13) - needed one more win (over Oregon) in the B10 tournament
3. Boise State (24-10)
4. UC Irvine (28-6)
5. Ohio State (17-15) - "In retrospect, it’s remarkable how clear the path to an NCAA bid looked for Ohio State entering the Big Ten tournament. Even at 17-14, even after slip-up after slip-up during Big Ten play, the underachieving Buckeyes were still in striking distance of claiming one of the final at-large bids. Predictive metrics still rank Ohio State as a top 40ish, NCAA tournament-caliber team." IMO, no matter how strong the predictive metrics, a barely above .500 record is difficult to overlook for a bid. I don't consider this a snub at all.
Five biggest "left-outs" according to YahooSports (https://sports.yahoo.com/college-basketball/article/2025-march-madness-here-are-the-5-biggest-ncaa-tournament-snubs-224004309.html):As a bubble team, you simply can't do this and then complain.
1. West Virginia (19-13) - in if they don't blow their conference tournament opener to B12 last place finisher Colorado
#1 overall seed finished 1-3 in their last 4 games.There will always be some aspects to complain about. Always.
h2h losses to Duke and Florida
.
What's the point?
Michigan a 5 seed? Really?That and the 10 PM EDT tip off on Thursday against UCSD. UCSD is rumored to be the hottest thing since the macarena.
So there's San Diego, UCSD, and San Diego State?It's a hub of learning. Even if UCSD is 10 miles out of the city in another city, and SD State is a big ole party school.
That's a lot of San Diegos
Ok, who has been to the opening round of the tourney and what suggestions or advice do you have? Always been on my bucket list so this Friday the box is getting checked.I assume you are going to the Cleveland games or are you following your Wolverines to Colorado?
The 1st round of the ncaa is like attending a convention. People are coming and going, unless there's a very close school it's almost never close to full. It's also overwhelmingly attended by men.I agree with all of this. It is OVERWHELMINGLY attended by men, much more than bowl games. I figure it isn't hard to convince a wife/gf who isn't into sports to tag along to SoCal (Rose), NOLA (Sugar), Miami (Orange), or Arizona (Fiesta) in January but unless she is a skier, Denver in March doesn't have the same appeal.
I assume you are going to the Cleveland games or are you following your Wolverines to Colorado?Staying local. Taking some of my guys on my team and surprisingly, my wife is a little unhappy she's not going haha. So i think i'll owe her a future trip to a game.
I went to Cleveland games a few years ago when Ohio State was playing there and thought it was so fun that I'd go back even if Ohio State wasn't there. Albeit, that was before I had kids which is why you won't see me there this year.
If my local assumption was correct you've got on Friday:
- #2 Bama vs #15 Robert Morris, 12:40
- #7 St Mary's vs #10 Vandy, 3:15
- #7 Marquette vs #10 New Mexico, 7:25
- #2 Michigan State vs #15 Bryant, 10pm
We're doing session 2, aka the Friday evening games and you brought up a great point about clearing out the first session and the timing of the 2nd and that leads me to believe that parking and traffic are going to be an absolute disaster.One thing that will make it worse for you is that I would guess that most of the fans will be attending both sessions so they will be parked LONG before you arrive.
Yeah, and honestly a dearth of Southern sites.I track this by timezone which is obviously E-W and not N-S so I don't have much data on N-S. I will also say, in defense of the NCAA, that the sites are selected at least a year in advance and the SEC suddenly being REALLY good at BB wasn't something they could reasonably have foreseen.
Texas Tech is the most western top-15 team. Arizona is 16, Oregon at 19, BYU at 22, then UCLA at 25.
Five biggest "left-outs" according to YahooSports (https://sports.yahoo.com/college-basketball/article/2025-march-madness-here-are-the-5-biggest-ncaa-tournament-snubs-224004309.html):
1. West Virginia (19-13) - in if they don't blow their conference tournament opener to B12 last place finisher Colorado
As a bubble team, you simply can't do this and then complain.
And now West Virginia's idiot governor is opening an investigation. "This was a miscarriage of justice and robbery at the highest levels," the idiot whines. He makes West Virginia look worse for this.Embarrassing.
I just so happened to have completed my own investigation into this "miscarriage of justice."
The key finding is that bubble teams who lose the first round of their conference tournament to the last place finisher, such as 3-17 Colorado, aren't entitled to a bid.
I am available to be reached by Governor Morrisey to assist with his sophomoric investigation.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1901682324992917879
My wish for March: Wisconsin in the Sweet 16. I don't need more than that, but I would really like to see the Badgers make it through the first weekend.The opening round looks like it shouldn’t be too bad.
B1G starts 1-0 in the tourney with Purdue's win over High Point.
Wisconsin opens with a comfortable win.So far today:
The ACC really sucks.It’s kind of funny that we knew that basically throughout the entire year, and then the universe just offered a chance to confirm.
I agree with all of this. It is OVERWHELMINGLY attended by men, much more than bowl games.
It's not going to be an outlier going forward. With these mega conferences, plenty of shitty P4 teams are going to get in.
Yes, plenty of worse teams than OSU are going to get in. Nobody is forcing OSU to accept a pay check to stay in the Big Ten. Just like Mick Cronin complaining about his travel. Yes, you just kick the can down of what a play in game in, but if OSU-Nebraska last night is a game between two safely in teams, you are really testing the "give a shit" limits. You want Penn State-Northwestern to be a play in game? Wherever you draw the line, there will be stakes, but that line is already so low, that 5-15 SEC teams might get in. The line is presently between mid and ass. I have no interest in making the line between ass and mega ass. I already said the BTN pretending like anyone cares who makes the BTT. Expansion literally makes that the NCAA tournament line. We are already at a point where you can win 5 conference games and get in, and people are pretending there is an argument that teams that win fewer should get in?
Since then, I’ve lightened up and don’t really care.IMHO, to an extent I don't really care either.
I think most people were in that boat.
I was one of those fans adamantly against the larger NCAA Tournament proposing a few years ago to expand to 96 teams, arguing that it would water it down too much, and further devalue the conference tournaments. Since then, I’ve lightened up and don’t really care. I’m indifferent about the recent proposal for an expansion to 76 teams, and, if approved, will end up watching whatever new play-in games feature 17-15 Ohio State Vs 22-13 Saint Joseph's.
I liken it to watching the lineup of crappy, pre-Christmas bowls. 6-6 Texas Tech Vs 6-6 California in the Independence Bowl. At this point my only eligibility standard for Bowls is to please keep the .500-or-above requirement. That way the teams I’m watching have a semblance of earning their way into an otherwise forgettable scrimmage I’m wasting 3 hours watching. I would ask the same of any proposed Tournament expansion, where eligibility requires a .500-or-above season. 17-16 Northwestern would’ve qualified for bid consideration.
IMHO, to an extent I don't really care either.Honestly, my biggest reason is that I'd like to have the Tournament's two busiest days on Saturday/Sunday. That *COULD* be accomplished simply by rearranging the schedule and I'd be ok with that but I more-or-less assume that expansion is inevitable.
I just wonder what problem an expanded tournament solves, other than "The NCAA wants even MORE money." Their desire for a bigger tournament so they can earn more money isn't my problem. The betting websites wanting more inventory so they have more games for degenerates to bet on isn't my problem.
As medina has pointed out, it's been 40 years since we went to 64[/65/68], and no team below an 8 seed has EVER won the whole thing. Only three teams in 40 years, <10%, between a 5 and 8 have ever won.
So it's not like you can claim that we need to expand the tournament because worthy teams have been left out. 64[/68] gives you enough slots for all worthy teams, plus the tallest midgets from the conferences that can only get in via auto-bid.
The only thing you "gain" from expansion is letting in more midlevel P4 teams that have no shot. Why do we need that?
Honestly, my biggest reason is that I'd like to have the Tournament's two busiest days on Saturday/Sunday. That *COULD* be accomplished simply by rearranging the schedule and I'd be ok with that but I more-or-less assume that expansion is inevitable.I agree regarding the play-ins. It seems silly that the 11 seed is a play-in. I mean, I get that those are traditionally "bubble" play-in matchups, but those teams are also substantially better than anyone 13 and below.
Also, I don't like the quasi-play-in thing. For one thing, I think it should be the eight worst teams so it should be a 17 seed thing with 16/17 playing a play-in. For another it is just weird. The play-in seems like you are only sorta-kinda in. I'd be fine with scrapping it entirely but that would cut into P4 slots too much for my liking.
If it were purely up to me here is what I would do:
- Go back to 64, no play-in.
- Make auto-bids conditional on having at least one team from your league in the top 160 in the final NET rankings. For this year, that would eliminated auto-bids for six leagues*.
- Move the Tournament's first and second weekends back two days such that the sites would be either Saturday/Monday or Sunday/Tuesday instead of Thursday/Saturday or Friday/Sunday#.
*The 160 isn't totally random, it is 2.5x the number of teams in the Tournament. If none of your teams meet that, you suck and shouldn't be a part of the Tournament to determine the NC. I could accept 2x (128) or even 3x (192). For this year the leagues without a team in the top 128 are:So if you set the threshold at 128 you'd eliminate eight auto-bids, if you set it at 160 you'd eliminate six, and if you set it at 192 you'd eliminate two.
- Horizon, 135
- Am East, 141
- NEC, 168
- MAAC, 182
- MEAC, 183
- OVC, 188
- Patriot, 213
- SWAC, 224
#The point of this is mostly watchability. I, like @MarqHusker (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=41) just don't care enough to take the day off work but if you moved the busiest days to Saturday/Sunday I'd watch BB all day those days (provided it was on CBS not some channel I've never heard of and don't get). Then on Monday/Tuesday you'd only have eight games per day and the vast majority of those could be after 5pm at least in EST. I do understand that this doesn't help you much since by the time you Californians get out of work it is 8pm EST.
The only #1 seeds that have EVER lost are UVA and some other school I can't remember.I can't either, I think they are somewhere in Indiana, must have been Notre Dame.
I personally am a big proponent of auto-bids. Win your conference, you get a chip and a chair. Yeah, we all know you're gonna get smoked. But you at least get a chance. That said, your idea of dropping anyone below 160 (or 128 or 192) would have the benefit of those 1, 2, and maybe 3 seed first round games being more compelling. As it stands, watching over the last day and a half I haven't tuned into 1 seed games at all.That is my biggest reason for it. As I've shown, #13's and below win much less often than #12's. For example, through last year the #13's and below had a grand combined total of 12 S16 appearances and only one S16 win (against some Indiana School, must have been Notre Dame). That is for all four per seed per tournament so that is 12 S16 appearances and one S16 win by the 624 teams that have been seeded #13-16. By comparison the 156 #12 seeds had 22 S16 appearances and two S16 wins. Ie, the #13's and below simply don't belong. I see my expansion to 80 idea as basically a compromise between excluding them based on NET and including them. That way they get in, but they have to play a team in a mini-round before they get to the "real", 64-team tournament.
That is my biggest reason for it. As I've shown, #13's and below win much less often than #12's. For example, through last year the #13's and below had a grand combined total of 12 S16 appearances and only one S16 win (against some Indiana School, must have been Notre Dame). That is for all four per seed per tournament so that is 12 S16 appearances and one S16 win by the 624 teams that have been seeded #13-16. By comparison the 156 #12 seeds had 22 S16 appearances and two S16 wins. Ie, the #13's and below simply don't belong. I see my expansion to 80 idea as basically a compromise between excluding them based on NET and including them. That way they get in, but they have to play a team in a mini-round before they get to the "real", 64-team tournament.Yeah, but I don't think the system is broken such that we really need to expand to 80. And the reason is that teams 33-48(ish), i.e. 9-12 seeds, already don't have a chance. So expanding that such that you add a bunch of other teams that don't have a chance is not all that compelling.
Interesting, first time in a while that none of the 1-4 seeds got upset.I think everyone except Kansas has figured out the portal
I think everyone except Kansas has figured out the portalI also noticed that our league got the most benefit from upsets as our two #4 seeds are both playing #12 seeds this weekend.
I also noticed that our league got the most benefit from upsets as our two #4 seeds are both playing #12 seeds this weekend.It’s the first time a league has ever gone 8-0 or better.
Also, did all of our teams advance? B1G! B1G! B1G!
It’s the first time a league has ever gone 8-0 or better.At the beginning of the tourney I somehow looked at the scores wrong, and thought that McNeese had upset Purdue. I thought, "Oh man, Bwarbs is gonna be like...
At the beginning of the tourney I somehow looked at the scores wrong, and thought that McNeese had upset Purdue. I thought, "Oh man, Bwarbs is gonna be like...I have lost the capacity for surprise, my friend.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/7c/29/237c296792117070a68d68191f09ccd9.gif)"
I think everyone except Kansas has figured out the portal
Glad someone brought up Kansas, b/c I want to make a comparison to Alabama football. Like Alabama football, it was heavily alleged for years that Kansas had found unofficial ways to pay their roster.AJ Storr would like a word.
Then comes the NIL and the playing field - or the “paying field” - is leveled. Suddenly Saban retires, even admitting his disappointment with his roster so openly shopping themselves in the offseason to other programs who before the NIL had minimal systems of paying what it was assumed Alabama was paying.
Headlining Kansas’ three year decline are mistakes made in the transfer portal. Hunter Dickinson might be the most disappointing portal addition ever. However, their abrupt decline also coincides with the opening of the NIL. Where Kansas’ long-alleged payment scheme is no longer a competitive program building advantage now other schools can openly pay their rosters?
AJ Storr would like a word.Yeah. Even if I think Dickinson is kind of a shithead and didn’t deliver glory to Kansas, he still at least produced at a high level. Lotta transfer guys can’t say that.
Had Storr stayed in Madison, he might have had a small shot at the NBA.OTOH, thank god he left. Big upgrade there.
Now he has zero chance.
Hope he invested his NIL wisely...
Glad someone brought up Kansas, b/c I want to make a comparison to Alabama football. Like Alabama football, it was heavily alleged for years that Kansas had found unofficial ways to pay their roster.But also, programs can't stay on top forever. This is all 100% circumstantial.
Then comes the NIL and the playing field - or the “paying field” - is leveled. Suddenly Saban retires, even admitting his disappointment with his roster so openly shopping themselves in the offseason to other programs who before the NIL had minimal systems of paying what it was assumed Alabama was paying.
Headlining Kansas’ three year decline are mistakes made in the transfer portal. Hunter Dickinson might be the most disappointing portal addition ever. However, their abrupt decline also coincides with the opening of the NIL. Where Kansas’ long-alleged payment scheme is no longer a competitive program building advantage now other schools can openly pay their rosters?
I think everyone except Kansas has figured out the portalThe above quote from @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) was in response to my pointing out that the 13+ seeds went 0-16 in the Tournament this year.
Outside of the player families and older school couples that traveled with teams, it really was predominantly male population. What was also weird was the amount of lates 20’s to early 40’s males that were constantly betting on items in games and vocal about it. $1,000 bet on the Lobos to get to 10 points first. Just weird.This has to be step #1 of the 12 steps for degenerate gamblers, right?
BYU was on one last night, and UW shot itself in the foot too much. Just created too big of a hole and still almost came back.I'm still pissed that UW didn't get Milwaukee and had to play a road game against the 6 seed last night.
Was a pretty great season, even if it left me wishing for another win or two here and there.
BYU was on one last night, and UW shot itself in the foot too much. Just created too big of a hole and still almost came back.Tough game to watch. Definitely wasn’t the best I’ve seen the Badgers this year and still almost won with byu shooting 46% from 3 and 94% from the line. Crazy. Bummed for the season to end because Badgers were an easy team to root for.
Was a pretty great season, even if it left me wishing for another win or two here and there.
I'm still pissed that UW didn't get Milwaukee and had to play a road game against the 6 seed last night.Big 10 seeding this year was BS.
Outside of the player families and older school couples that traveled with teams, it really was predominantly male population. What was also weird was the amount of lates 20’s to early 40’s males that were constantly betting on items in games and vocal about it. $1,000 bet on the Lobos to get to 10 points first. Just weird.
Definitely a development worth noticing. Once the guardrails of sports betting was removed, the Gaming Industry wasted zero time placing sports betting opportunities as close to the consumer as possible, literally in their back pockets via apps on their smart phones. It taps into men looking for a (virtual) thrill, and it's not a good shift.this whole explosion of sports betting is crazy, not gonna lie. but I am of the opinion that stupid is as stupid does and live and let live.
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1849582911483257009
I'm sure most of you find John Oliver insufferable, but the feature piece from his show from last weekend on Max was on sports gambling and the various sports gambling apps and what harm they're causing. Worth a watch if you have an account.yeah, no thanks. you said it right, John Oliver is an insufferable twat. too bad we can't deport him to El Salvador.
sports gambling apps aren't causing harm. people with no brains and zero self control are causing themselves harm.True. The user is ultimately at fault for their actions.
yeah, no thanks. you said it right, John Oliver is an insufferable twat. too bad we can't deport him to El Salvador.Gambling is highly addictive. And it's much easier to hide from loved ones and those relying on you than drugs/alcohol. You can lose your family's house without them knowing there was a problem.
sports gambling apps aren't causing harm. people with no brains and zero self control are causing themselves harm.
you want to make an argument that illicit drugs and alcohol should be regulated or illegal- fine- there is at least an argument to be made there. they are actually highly addictive and they cause severe negative health effects on the body and can even cause death. gambling? lmfao....gtfoh sally.
"we talkin' bout practice. we talkin' bout practice."
Wow!I just checked, and I don't see where I called for government to step in...
Our resident Libertarian taking a contra-libertarian stance in, if all places, the BB thread!
Now that deserves this:
Maryland with a buzzer-beater to advance over Colorado State!Best game of the tournament so far.
Exciting game (that I missed most of because we're making posole right now)...
Well if this is where it ends for MSU, its the 3 point shooting carching up to them1-9 from 3. No points from our best player. All things considered, Ill take just being down 2
Looks like the SEC will have 6 of the Sweet 16. Although UK and Tennessee will play each other.Seven.
Seven.:72:
Bama
Auburn
UF
Arky
UK
Ole Miss
UT
Nice little regional in Indy.Seems crazy that they put a 1 seed in the regional that happens to be a de facto home game for the 4 seed.
Kelvin Sampson returns, Big blue nation (and all they bring), likely antagonized by Vols fans. Oh, yeah Purdue fan too. I may go on Friday.
Seven.The SEC is a basketball conference now.
Bama
Auburn
UF
Arky
UK
Ole Miss
UT
I just checked, and I don't see where I called for government to step in...That is fair as I don't think that you specifically called for Government to limit gambling but to be fair the other way, you DID pretty much give the contra-Libertarian talking points.
As I often say, we're all going the same place, and it's nice to have the freedom to decorate our own handbasket.
Seems crazy that they put a 1 seed in the regional that happens to be a de facto home game for the 4 seed.Let's have a closer look at that across the board so they have:
That is fair as I don't think that you specifically called for Government to limit gambling but to be fair the other way, you DID pretty much give the contra-Libertarian talking points.I'm allowed to think something is terrible without calling for it to be illegal.
Niko Medved from Colorado State to the Gophers.Finished second to little Ricky's team. Heh.
Good hire.
Wow!As a libertarian (small l) i notice that he takes non-libertarian stances quite regularly. Maybe I notice it because it stands out to me. Make it at least a few times
Our resident Libertarian taking a contra-libertarian stance in, if all places, the BB thread!
Now that deserves this:
Gambling is highly addictive. And it's much easier to hide from loved ones and those relying on you than drugs/alcohol. You can lose your family's house without them knowing there was a problem.Initially I mostly chimed in on this because I was surprised to see @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) reciting contra-libertarian talking points. He clarified that he doesn't actually think this SHOULD be illegal, just that it is bad.
I think that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) makes a good point here. This all started with @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) 's observation that guys at the opening weekend games in Cleveland were audibly talking about making bets like $1,000 on the Lobos to be the first to 10 points.That Clevelanders are gambling degenerates?
What is the consensus here on this issue?
Initially I mostly chimed in on this because I was surprised to see @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) reciting contra-libertarian talking points. He clarified that he doesn't actually think this SHOULD be illegal, just that it is bad.Gambling should be legal everywhere and anytime.
I think that @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) makes a good point here. This all started with @SuperMario (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1596) 's observation that guys at the opening weekend games in Cleveland were audibly talking about making bets like $1,000 on the Lobos to be the first to 10 points.
What is the consensus here on this issue? (Maybe this should get moved over to another thread).
I'm not sure where I stand. I definitely think it is bad and I agree with @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) that it sullies the game (or at least it can) but at the same time, I don't think banning sports better altogether is a workable solution nor necessarily one that Government *SHOULD* do even if they functionally could. So I'm not sure where that leaves me. Thoughts?
I mean our alcohol restrictions (aside from the outdated Puritan ones about no sales on Sunday) are based on the immediate safety of others. While gambling addiction obviously harms others, we don't do anything about the alcoholic who does it in his own house, unless he violates some other law.Get rid of alcohol restrictions other than age which should be 18 old enough to vote old enough to serve old enough to drink. If you drink and harm others there are remedies either criminal or civil. If I drink and harm no one but myself it is my choice. Only when others are actually harmed not potentially harmed should there be any consequences. Also don't ask me to pay of your "recovery".
I really don't see a reason to limit it, even if I don't like it
If I drink and harm no one but myself it is my choice. Only when others are actually harmed not potentially harmed should there be any consequences.Maybe I'm reading this wrong but, I agree with @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) :
I can't get that farMaybe you didn't mean it literally but "Only when others are actually harmed not potentially harmed should there be any consequences." would mean the end of OVI laws. Ie, if I'm drunk driving but I don't actually hit anyone, I haven't actually harmed anyone so, by your reasoning, no consequences.
Looks like it's official. Iowa has hired Drake coach Ben McCollum as it's new head coach.he obviously wants the money to pay those players from Drake - they might not come for dimes instead of dollars
Sounds like McCollum was holding out to get more NIL money for Iowa, and was using WV''s interest in McCollum to get the extra NIL money. It will be interesting to see who Iowa can recruit through the portal. I assume McCollum will bring his best players along from Drake.
Now for the 2nd year in a row, Drake has to find a replacement for coach that got the Bulldogs into the NCAA tourney and took their best players with him.
First weekend performance by seed over 40 NCAA Tournaments:the standout observation, to me anyways is the following: Since we know (thanks to @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) prior posts), the 9 has a winning record against that '8' seed, they are actually dreadful versus the #1 seed in second round, compared to the '8' seed on a relative and an absolute basis.
(https://i.imgur.com/mMI6XXT.png)
I mean our alcohol restrictions (aside from the outdated Puritan ones about no sales on Sunday) are based on the immediate safety of others. While gambling addiction obviously harms others, we don't do anything about the alcoholic who does it in his own house, unless he violates some other law.My favorite is drinking and driving being illegal, but we have drive-through liquor stores. Brilliant.
I really don't see a reason to limit it, even if I don't like it
the standout observation, to me anyways is the following: Since we know (thanks to @medinabuckeye1 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1547) prior posts), the 9 has a winning record against that '8' seed, they are actually dreadful versus the #1 seed in second round, compared to the '8' seed on a relative and an absolute basis.I've always found that odd because it is counterintuitive. You would think the #8 seeds would have a slight winning record against the #9's and then the two would be about the same beyond the first round but neither of those things are true. Instead the #9 seeds have a slight winning record against the #8's and then the #8 seeds are VASTLY better beyond the first round. Two other things stand out to me:
Just so you know while I disagree with dui laws. I think if you kill someone while drunk it should be treated like premeditated murder. If you drink a n d drive you are aware that you are a danger and be charged as suchThe biggest problem with this, from a criminology standpoint is that it would provide almost zero deterrence.
https://twitter.com/NCAABuzzerBters/status/1904514856478445808You tossed out a reference a while back, saying that being a fan of Michigan this year is like saying your favorite band is the Traveling Wilbury's. It is that way across the board in CBB now.
You tossed out a reference a while back, saying that being a fan of Michigan this year is like saying your favorite band is the Traveling Wilbury's. It is that way across the board in CBB now.Is it really?
Is it really?Purdue is the exception with five guys that started there. Then there are Dook and MSU with four and a few with three. A whole bunch of S16 teams have five starters that started their college careers at five different schools. It is crazy.
(https://i.imgur.com/n90jp2n.png)
Let's have a closer look at that across the board so they have:I was curious so I checked and per events365 the cheapest all session tickets are:
Newark, New Jersey:San Francisco, California:
- #1 Dook vs #4 Arizona
- #2 Alabama vs #6 BYU (#3 was Wisconsin)
Atlanta, Georgia:
- #1 Florida vs #4 Maryland
- #3 TxTech vs #10 Arkansas (#2 was St. Johns)
Indianapolis, Indiana:
- #1 Auburn vs #5 Michigan (#4 was aTm)
- #2 Michigan State vs #6 Ole Miss (#3 was ISU)
- #1 Houston vs #4 Purdue
- #2 Tennessee vs #3 Kentucky
As I see it, ticket demand in Indianapolis is going to be off the charts. Purdue is in-state, Kentucky is a border state and the Wildcats are known for travelling extremely well, Tennessee is not all that far away, and the #1 seed will always bring some fans just because they are a #1 seed.
I was curious so I checked and per events365 the cheapest all session tickets are:Hey @SFBadger96 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=51) are you going to any of the games?
- $353.41 for the West Regional in San Francisco, California (Thursday/Saturday)
Jeez, now that I have to think about Minnesota sports more actively, any opinions on their new basketball head coach (a MN grad, coming from Colorado State)?He came in second place in the MWC this season, to Minnesota's old coach, Little Ricky. Seems perfect.
Some smoke that Willard is leaving Maryland for Villanova.Last night! Skipped the team dinner.
Last night! Skipped the team dinner.Feels like that would be a very stupid move. Skipping the dinner, I mean.
Jeez, now that I have to think about Minnesota sports more actively, any opinions on their new basketball head coach (a MN grad, coming from Colorado State)?If he can get the NIL spigot opened, good for him. No one in this town has done it yet. And based on the response of the Dinkytown Athlete Collective, the early returns are promising.
The SEC can buy coaches and players, but they cant buy fans. Its very clearly all UM and MSU fans rooting for their own teams and against each other. There might be a couple Auburn and Ole Mkss fans in the houseAnd buy refs. The auburn bigs hacking and hammering every time and nothing being called and then Michigan breathing on Auburn completely changed the second half. Pettiford then got hot and ended it but the swing was the stripes
And buy refs. The auburn bigs hacking and hammering every time and nothing being called and then Michigan breathing on Auburn completely changed the second half. Pettiford then got hot and ended it but the swing was the stripesThe one thing you want is consistency. and in that game, they let a ton go in the first half, and then called everything in the second half
Wow, Kelvin Sampson with the play call of the yearGreat out of bounds play. Unbelievable. I will say Houston got some questionable calls go its way the last few minutes. Retained a couple of possessions on plays that it clearly went out on UH. And that inbounds play never happens if the refs call Uzan for the push off on Smith. But those things happen. Great ending.
So the E8 is:This is a good thing.
- 4 #1 seeds
- 3 #2 seeds
- 1 #3 seed
Great out of bounds play. Unbelievable. I will say Houston got some questionable calls go its way the last few minutes. Retained a couple of possessions on plays that it clearly went out on UH. And that inbounds play never happens if the refs call Uzan for the push off on Smith. But those things happen. Great ending.The out of bounds call then followed by the three was tough. The push off at the end of the game was absolutely BS. That was so beyond blatant. The play call after that was incredible, but tough to overlook such a horrible no-call in such a key moment.
This is a good thing.should have been an 8-team tournament
should have been an 8-team tournamentOnly if there's any interest in the best team winning it. Pffft, crazy talk!
So the E8 is:
- 4 #1 seeds
- 3 #2 seeds
- 1 #3 seed
So the Elite 8 is 7 of the top 8, plus a top 12 team...
Unfortunately it looks like 24/25 B1G BB is 20 minutes from over.OTOH, only being down 9 at the half after shooting as terribly as MSU did in the first half isn't bad.
What Duke did on defense vs Alabama was nuts. That's scary. Even more than Houston holding Tennessee to 15 at the half.agreed
I recognize I'm not keeping up on college hoops, but was Sampson the coach that was text happy at IU?Yup. And is probably the 2nd cleanest coach in the Final 4
This is a good thing.I don't disagree, it was just surprising.
Have thought a lot about this thread's commentary, dating back through this month, discussing the combined impact of the NIL and Transfer Portal widening the gap between the Haves and the Have-Nots by eroding the mid-majors into a "glorified JuCo" status, as Norfolk State's head coach aptly phrases it. Where the NIL pockets of high-majors can buy experienced starters from the MAC, A-10, MTW, CUSA, etc. This siphoning off of both talent and experience across the mid-majors will lead to less upsets and Cinderella runs in the NCAA Tournament. We've talked more about this pertaining to football, but it's notable to see how the NIL/TP impact is playing out in college basketball as well. This year might be the first season where the full result is taking hold of the tournament. It was only two seasons ago that #1, #2, & #4 seeds lost in the first round.We spent a lot of time discussing this during the offseason. The number of 13+ seeds to win at least one game started out relatively high, dropped in the 00's, then rose steadily to all-time highs in the late teens / early 2020's.
Another area this is impacting is "bracket betting." Vegas Sports Books have always been able to count on upsets to diminish the potential winnings of the vast numbers of casual "bracket betters" submitting brackets that are mostly "chalk." This year the "chalkers" are set for higher than usual winnings, to the point that Vegas Sports Books are expecting to lose record amounts on "bracket betting" this March.
https://twitter.com/blake_levine/status/1904461541757350125
[img width=500 height=332.983]https://i.imgur.com/PnNhNiT.png[/img]My theory at this point is that the three point shooting does increase randomness but the Portal and NIL have completely overtaken that. The rich have gotten richer such that the best teams are just ridiculously better. At the same time, the poor have gotten poorer. All (well ok, most) of the good players that in a previous era would have been playing for 12-seeds mid-major Champions, in this era have transferred and are now playing for top seeds.
In the S16, some past #1's got a gift and only had to play a #12. This year in the S16 the four #1 seeds played three #4 seeds and a #5. Those #4's and #5's *SHOULD* have been more well equipped to knock off a #1 than a #12 would have been but yet those #4 and #5 seeds (Michigan, Zona, Purdue, Maryland) went 0-fer in the S16.Not necessarily disagreeing, but there were some of those S16 and E8 games that were, well, NOT lopsided.
Then in the E8, in the past a lot of #1 seeds got #6's, #7's, or even #10's or #11's. This year's four #1 seeds played three #2's and a #3. Those #2's and #3's *SHOULD* have been more well equipped to knock off a #1 than a #6, 7, 10, or 11 would have been but yet those #2's and #3's (MSU, Bama, TN, TxTech) went 0-fer in the E8.
Historical comparison for the #1 seeds over the 40 Tournaments since expansion (1985-2025 no 2020):
- 16-8-4-2 Houston's path was straight-up chalk
- 16-8-4-3 Florida's path was one seed off from chalk (#3 TxTech instead of #2 St. Johns)
- 16-9-4-2 Dook's path was one seed off from chalk (#9 Baylor instead of #8 MissSt)
- 16-9-5-2 Auburn's path was two seeds off from chalk (#5 Michigan instead of #4 aTm and #9 Creighton instead of #8 Louisville)
Not necessarily disagreeing, but there were some of those S16 and E8 games that were, well, NOT lopsided.This is a very good point. I was actually going to discuss the sample size issue anyway so here goes:
The only ones I was really paying close attention to (since I was on vacation) was Purdue/Houston and Florida/TTU. I actually think I threw Florida/TTU on the TV with only 30 seconds left before we left to go to dinner... Purdue was tied 60-60 with 2 seconds left in the game, and Florida was down pretty big late and had to have an epic comeback to win it close.
I'm not sure whether any of the other S16 or E8 games were nailbiters. But I'd caution against too small of a sample size unless this becomes a bigger and bigger trend going forward the next 2-3 tournaments.
However, looking at just ONE Tournament this is an issue. If TxTech manages to protect a nine point lead that should have been insurmountable and Purdue manages to win a game that they were within one possession of at the 00:02 mark then things are a lot different. #1 seeds Florida and Houston are gone replaced by #3 TxTech and either #4 Purdue or #2 Tennessee.Yep. And Purdue was tied at that 00:02 mark guarding an inbounds. If they'd done a better job, it's OT.
Yep. And Purdue was tied at that 00:02 mark guarding an inbounds. If they'd done a better job, it's OT.Exactly and, as you said, we'll see how things look 2-3-4 years out. The F4 participants have been:
And I'm not going to be sour grapes and litigate the referees, but there were two fairly egregious late OOB calls where the ball was awarded to Houston but replay showed it conclusively being Purdue's ball, but with the new rules it's not reviewable so Houston got the ball.
In a small sample size that randomness shows up as "well yeah, the #1 advanced" but it's why we don't rely on such a small sample size.
Does Florida have any ball handlers?(https://media.tenor.com/DL6eSXYsTPQAAAAM/beavis-and-butthead-laughing-beavis-butthead.gif)
Does Florida have any ball handlers?I mean they bought a whole roster, youd think they would have
You sound bitter.No, it is what it is. Floridas entire starting lineup began elsewhere. Florida bought them, and the investment paid off But I cant imagine giving a shit about how they do
As if we didn't win, lol.We?
Thanks for taking care of Duke, UH! Good luck on Monday.
You saw that graphic of the sweet 16 teams and where their starting 5s began, right? Stop acting jealous and hate the system, not the Gators.You seem to care a lot. I dont post about things I dont care about. Congrats on YOUR laundry purchase. i assume you are a large NIL donor to take ownership of this team, because thats where it came from.
No one ends up where they start, especially elite guys. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Or maybe just beat Auburn, lol.
Yes, we. I'm an alum. And I care more about spring football than I do basketball. WE.
And for the record, OSU just bought a national championship out of the portal. So its nothing against Florida. I just stand by wondering how you can possibly care how a bunch of dudes fare who just slapped on some laundry for a couple months who happened to match your laundrySix of the top eight players were on the team last year. There’s a decent chance they’ll be Gators longer than Jace Richardson will be a Spartan.
[img width=273.619 height=500]https://i.imgur.com/nWLyoIo.jpeg[/img]Only Big Ten team to end the season with a W
NIT championship: Check!#volleyballschool
'Crown' Championship: Check!
NCAA tournament win....'a' game:............
I think there are 241 schools with a tournament win.
I had trouble finding it through youtube > paramount plus > 3rd row down, 3rd to the right.....fucking hidden.I was literally watching an MLB game I had no vested interest in (Astros-Mariners), and a friend texted me they called 4 fouls in the first half and 22 before the under 8 timeout in the second. Which (a) cant be right, and (b) how I found out the game was occuring.
(https://i.imgur.com/wreZtB3.jpeg)Congratulations! The Gators earned that.
First school with 3 football & 3 basketball NCs
Well, shit. I literally thought the championship game was tomorrow. College basketball does a great job of promotiong the beginning of their postseason. Guess Ill enjoy the last 5 minutesI have to ask. The national championship has been played the Monday after the Final Four literally your entire life. How did you think it was going to be Tuesday this year?
I have to ask. The national championship has been played the Monday after the Final Four literally your entire life. How did you think it was going to be Tuesday this year?I don't know, just slipped my mind
(https://i.imgur.com/wreZtB3.jpeg)days of Spurrier & Tebow are long gone now.
I'm almost always busy on Monday nights. For the past several years it's been my son's boy scout meetings, I'm the troop committee chair so I attend most of the meetings.I have a six year old that will hopefully be doing that soon. One of my buddies told me to have my wife take him to the meetings. He said that if I show up, they'll see me coming and I'll end up leaving as Scoutmaster.
I have a six year old that will hopefully be doing that soon. One of my buddies told me to have my wife take him to the meetings. He said that if I show up, they'll see me coming and I'll end up leaving as Scoutmaster.Ha! It's true.
UConn might be even crazier.UCONN is definitely crazier at least over the last 26 years. From 1999-2025 the schools with multiple NC's are:
Only UCLA and UNC have more NCs, but Kansas State has more Elite 8s. They won the NC in 6 of their 7 Final 4 appearances. They've won all 6 national titles in the past 26 years. But they've also missed the tourney 9 times in that span. They've won a title in roughly 1/3 of their tourney appearances in the past two and half decades
(https://i.imgur.com/wreZtB3.jpeg)Does that make 3 this century ? I know they won one earlier this millennium. I can’t remember the coaches name, but I can see his face. Billy Donovan maybe ? Seems like they won in FB and basketball the same year.
5 football titles in my lifetime trumps thatAgreed.
UConn might be even crazier.I’ve called UConn’s last 25 years or so the least dominant, dominant run I’ve ever seen. The national titles scream dynasty, but nothing else does. You mentioned all the missed tournaments in that time span which is really unusual. 20 of the last 27 national champions have been 1 seeds. Of the 7 instances a non-number 1 has won it UConn owns 4 of them by itself.
Only UCLA and UNC have more NCs, but Kansas State has more Elite 8s. They won the NC in 6 of their 7 Final 4 appearances. They've won all 6 national titles in the past 26 years. But they've also missed the tourney 9 times in that span. They've won a title in roughly 1/3 of their tourney appearances in the past two and half decades
Yes, Donovan won back-to-back titles in 06, 07. First as a 3-seed, then as a 1. Football won in 06 and 08.That’s something really special. I’m envious.
Only UConn and Florida have 3 basketball titles in the last 20 years.
So please excuse my arrogance, but I've witnessed 2 football, 3 basketball, and a baseball NC in the last 20 years.
Yes, Donovan won back-to-back titles in 06, 07. First as a 3-seed, then as a 1. Football won in 06 and 08.Tacking on baseball plays as well as me mentioning MSUs 2007 hockey national title. MSU is also back to back dodgeball national champs (totally serious)
Only UConn and Florida have 3 basketball titles in the last 20 years.
So please excuse my arrogance, but I've witnessed 2 football, 3 basketball, and a baseball NC in the last 20 years.
Agreed.I'm with you two. Ohio State now has three in my lifetime, I wasn't around in 1968. Nebraska and Florida each also have three in my lifetime.
But in my lifetime, we're even at 3.
I’ve called UConn’s last 25 years or so the least dominant, dominant run I’ve ever seen. The national titles scream dynasty, but nothing else does. You mentioned all the missed tournaments in that time span which is really unusual. 20 of the last 27 national champions have been 1 seeds. Of the 7 instances a non-number 1 has won it UConn owns 4 of them by itself.I like the Dook comparison. It isn't about Dook, it is more that Dook's dominant run is more what we expect or "the norm" for a dominant run. They have the NC's (not quite as many as UCONN) but they also have LOTS of #1 seeds, F4's, Tournament wins, Tournament appearances, and regular season wins. UCONN has the NC's but everything else is pretty mediocre.
To call it fluky is too dismissive and diminishes the accomplishment. But to call it unique or unusual is pretty apt. Here is a little comparison of UConn’s run from 1999-2024 to Duke’s from 1986-2011.
Overall record
Duke- 746-172 (.813)
UConn- 625-263 (.704)
Tournament Appearances
Duke- 25
UConn-17 (UConn may have had 18 if COVID doesn’t happen in 2020. They were a bubble team).
Tournament Wins
Duke- 73
UConn- 50
Final Four Appearances
Duke- 11
UConn-7
Times as #1 seed
Duke- 12
UConn- 4
But…
National Titles
UConn-6
Duke- 4
It’s been a great, but strange run for UConn.
It is interesting, MSU is kinda the "Ohio State" of College Basketball at least over the last ~30 years. They are hyper-consistent, nearly always in the mix, but they don't have the number of Championships that other schools at their level have.And Houston played in a mid-major until 2 years ago, and Purdue's streak would be 5, if 2020 hadn't been cancelled
MSU has been to the Tournament every year since 1998. That is 27 straight NCAA Appearances which is remarkable especially when you look at how far ahead of the field that puts them:
- 27 MSU 1998-2025
- 26 Gonzaga 1999-2025
- 10 Purdue 2015-2025
- 7 Houston 2018-2025
- 6 Baylor 2019-2025
- 6 Kansas 2019-2025*
*Kansas has more but their 2018 appearance was subsequently vacated so they only have six straight legitimate NCAA Appearances.
Gonzaga is obviously close but they play in a rink-dink conference so winning their league tournament is something most big-boy programs could do with their backups. Gonzaga's is an accomplishment worth noting but it isn't on the same level as the others.
MSU's streak is nearly three times as long as Purdue's and nearly four times as long as Houston's.