CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on November 19, 2023, 07:40:34 AM
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Who ya got?
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Not sure but Ann Arbor is still a Whore that cannot be disputed
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indubitably
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I think Bama wins big .......
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Hey-hey-hey take that blasphemy to the SEC Board........if you can find it
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I think the Hawkeyes and Brian win in a classic ugly dirt-clod fight in Lincoln that goes down to the last possession on Blackshirt Friday
Iowa enters the game as a 1.5-point road favorite, according to FanDuel. The over-under is set at 27.5.
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I’ll make a pick later this week but you want to know how good this rivalry is? It dictates when I put up my Christmas decorations, and I don’t have a dog in the fight.
In fairness, it isn’t just this game but rivalry weekend in general. But Ohio St-Michigan is the highlight of rivalry weekend. In 2006, we put up Christmas decorations and I bitched and complained because decorating was hindering my watching of The Game and she bitched and complained because The Game was hindering my Christmas decorating.
I now plan that around rivalry weekend and have for many years.
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Iowa enters the game as a 1.5-point road favorite, according to FanDuel. The over-under is set at 27.5.
I usually like this game but they better at least get to the 27.5 just to keep an audience
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In fairness, it isn’t just this game but rivalry weekend in general.
I now plan that around rivalry weekend and have for many years.
Damn shame the PAC & BIG 12 will be a memory at least how we came to know them.Not a big fan how any of this is unfolding and evidently most aren't either
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not gonna hold a national audience
no chance
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Damn shame the PAC & BIG 12 will be a memory.Not a big fan how any of this is unfolding and evidently most aren't either
but, on the bright side, we get Horns/Aggies on Rivalry week going forward
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not gonna hold a national audience
no chance
The hell you say,folks coast to coast clamour for FARMEGADDON
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but, on the bright side, we get Horns/Aggies on Rivalry week going forward
Meteor Strike
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Not sure but Ann Arbor is still a Whore that cannot be disputed
(https://media.tenor.com/6qJ1NBMnuUUAAAAC/let-the-hate-flow-through-you-sidious.gif)
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not gonna hold a national audience
no chance
Lol. my guess is it breaks records for viewership. might wind up being the most watched regular season game in years.
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talkin bout Hawks and Huskers
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it's cliche to say, but THE Game will likely come down to QB play, which one takes care of the ball, doesn't make the killer turnover mistakes, and just keeps the offense executing and ahead of the chains.
Kyle McCord on the road in 5 games this year so far...
74 completions, 124 attempts (59.6% completion), 8 TDs vs 4 INTs.
Not terrible, but then again not exactly amazing and what OSU has been used to with Stroud, Fields, Haskins.
McCord almost threw the game losing INT vs ND but got away with one, and then came back from that near disaster and led them on the go ahead last play TD drive.
Marvin Harrison will get his 100+ yards and a TD or two. He's too fcking good and unbelievably talented not to. He's gonna get his, there just isn't a CB in CFB that can stop him one on one for 60 minutes. The key for Michigan will be to stifle the running game and to try and confuse McCord and disrupt his timing. Have to contain Henderson and the backs and make McCord basically go win the game with his arm. He's capable of it for sure, but the crowd noise and atmosphere and weather should all be hinderance that he'll have to over come.
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talkin bout Hawks and Huskers
oh duh. my bad lol.
yeah, ain't no one gonna be watching that ish at noon.
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Depends on if Michigan is planning on letting JJ throw the ball or not.
When they did it to PSU I lolz'd and thought "Well played." When they did it again I started wondering if this is just what Michigan is at the moment.
I can hear Day praying from here that Mich just runs Corum at them 30 times.
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Several Michigan injuries sustained in the game at Maryland. Michigan doesn't really talk about injuries so these are my best guesses.
Starting WR Roman Wilson was targeted (not called) most likely sat out the remainder of the game as a concussion precaution. I would guess he'll play Saturday.
Starting LT Henderson did not play because he "was working through something." I would guess he'll play on Saturday.
Replacement LT Hinton left the game with an injury to his right knee and had to be helped off the field. I would guess he'll not play on Saturday.
Starting LB Barrett suffered and AC shoulders sprain per his own words. He returned to the Maryland game late so he should be fine for Saturday.
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it's cliche to say, but THE Game will likely come down to QB play, which one takes care of the ball, doesn't make the killer turnover mistakes, and just keeps the offense executing and ahead of the chains.
Kyle McCord on the road in 5 games this year so far...
74 completions, 124 attempts (59.6% completion), 8 TDs vs 4 INTs.
Not terrible, but then again not exactly amazing and what OSU has been used to with Stroud, Fields, Haskins.
McCord almost threw the game losing INT vs ND but got away with one, and then came back from that near disaster and led them on the go ahead last play TD drive.
Marvin Harrison will get his 100+ yards and a TD or two. He's too fcking good and unbelievably talented not to. He's gonna get his, there just isn't a CB in CFB that can stop him one on one for 60 minutes. The key for Michigan will be to stifle the running game and to try and confuse McCord and disrupt his timing. Have to contain Henderson and the backs and make McCord basically go win the game with his arm. He's capable of it for sure, but the crowd noise and atmosphere and weather should all be hinderance that he'll have to over come.
That is an excellent take. I agree completely.
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The winner almost certainly will get a 1 or 2 seed in the CFP (barring a MAJOR upset of course). This is a playoff game. (I think the SEC CG is as well.)
Often, the winner in such contests catches a few breaks, key penalties, random turnovers, tipped passes that are either INTs or completions and just drop to the ground, special teams breaks or fiascos. Any guess as to the outcome is just a guess, I'm sure UM is favored slightly (I looked it up, I guessed 3 points, and see 3.5). That's often a decent indicator, but that kind of line means the favorite wins about 60% of the time, a near tossup.
My ridiculous guess? Ohio State 27 UM 24
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Can I hold you to that? I'm thinking UofM by 7-10
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Sure.
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Meteor Strike
Ha. Go Blue!
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but, on the bright side, we get Horns/Aggies on Rivalry week going forward
Not sure it'll be on rivalry weekend, but I sure hope it is!
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That is an excellent take. I agree completely.
yer not supposed to agree with him
especially this week :41:
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yer not supposed to agree with him
especially this week :41:
I was debating hitting the "report to moderator" button.
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yer not supposed to agree with him
especially this week :41:
Some "Rivalry." Most agreeable and hospitable "rival" fans I've ever encountered. Soon they'll be sharing tea and crumpets whilst sitting out on the veranda.
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Some "Rivalry." Most agreeable and hospitable "rival" fans I've ever encountered. Soon they'll be sharing tea and crumpets whilst sitting out on the veranda.
The vitriol this year is largely in the Michigan Season Thread which kinda morphed into the Michigan Scandal Thread
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One of the most intense rivalries is South Carolina - Clemson, but of course few outside that state care.
UGA - Tech used to get some notice, not so much now.
The Iron Bowl is a thing.
Some river rivalry out west is a thing out there.
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Some "Rivalry." Most agreeable and hospitable "rival" fans I've ever encountered. Soon they'll be sharing tea and crumpets whilst sitting out on the veranda.
a tea sip would know
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My take:
One of the important features of this game is that it is played at the end of the season. That has helped to make it as big as it is because it has frequently been for something. In the old days it was frequently for the Rose Bowl. For the third consecutive year, this year it is for a spot in the B1GCG and (barring major upset) a spot in the CFP.
Playing at the end of the year has an additional impact. Teams are not the same in late November as they are in early September.
A great example of this is the biggest upset in the history of this rivalry, Michigan's win over #1 defending NC Ohio State in 1969. The Buckeyes won the NC in 1968 with a team made up primarily of Sophomores. This was at a time when Freshman so most of Ohio State's team was playing their first year when they won the NC in 1968 and they all came back in 1969. They were #1 from the beginning of the season until the upset in Ann Arbor.
Michigan that year was not great. At the beginning of the season, Michigan wasn't even good. They lost a couple games and got more-or-less forgotten but they rounded into form and were a MUCH better team in late November than they had been a few months earlier.
If the 1969 tOSU/M game had been played in September Ohio State would not only have won, they'd have blown the Wolverines out. Similarly, if the 2004 tOSU/M game had been played in September Michigan would not only have won, they'd have blown the Buckeyes out.
Applied to this season:
I think that if this game had been played in September the Wolverines would have won easily. Looking back at Ohio State's September games, they weren't that impressive. In the last seven games I think that tOSU is comparable to Michigan:
UMD:
Purdue:
PSU:
RU:
MSU:
MN:
I think that Ohio State is a much better team now than they were a couple months ago. We'll see if they have improved enough.
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I think that if this game had been played in September the Wolverines would have won easily. Looking back at Ohio State's September games, they weren't that impressive.
I think that Ohio State is a much better team now than they were a couple months ago. We'll see if they have improved enough.
I agree with both statements. In September, in addition to having a well-oiled football machine, Michigan would have had the benefit of Connor Stalion's clip board.
Ohio State is better defensively than they have been in recent years, and this has been true the entire season. My impression is that the Ohio State offense improved over the course of the year, although my impression about the offense isn't borne out so much in the scoring column. What do you think?
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The motivation should be high, as each player will have at the front of his mind, he is playing for the right to compete against the Hawkeyes.
:sign0085:
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I agree with both statements. In September, in addition to having a well-oiled football machine, Michigan would have had the benefit of Connor Stalion's clip board.
Ohio State is better defensively than they have been in recent years, and this has been true the entire season. My impression is that the Ohio State offense improved over the course of the year, although my impression about the offense isn't borne out so much in the scoring column. What do you think?
Very accurate. Their offense has steadily improved as the quarterback has gained experience, the three new offensive lineman have gained experience, and they’ve gotten healthier with the running backs. But they’re still not the explosive offense of 45 points per game that we saw the last five or six years.
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Ohio State is better defensively than they have been in recent years, and this has been true the entire season. My impression is that the Ohio State offense improved over the course of the year, although my impression about the offense isn't borne out so much in the scoring column. What do you think?
I definitely think they have improved. They seem to be a much better rushing team of late.
It is only Minnesota but Henderson had 15 for 146 on Saturday. Even without his 75 yard run on the first play of the second half he was still over 5 ypc at 14 for 71.
Marv Harrison is arguably the best player in all of CFB and Egbuka and the rest of tOSU's WR's make up probably the best WR group in CFB.
If Ohio State can run they are very difficult to defend because it becomes a pick your poison situation where a defense can either drop back to contain tOSU's ridiculous collection of WR's and get gashed on the ground or stack the box and get gashed through the air.
My guess is that Michigan will try to get around that problem by disguising their defense. They'll line up with eight in the box and have three guys drop back at the snap or line up with five guys back and have two crash down at the snap.
I think ghat tOSU's OL has improved dramatically since September. If they can open some holes for Henderson and give McCord some time, tOSU can do a lot offensively.
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Let's Go Buckeye's! Beat Xichigan!
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Trying to find betting odds on DraftKings for a fight breaking out between the teams in that lame-ass antiquated dual-team tunnel. Gotta be -500 at least.
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yer not supposed to agree with him
especially this week :41:
I thought it is a well reasoned observation.
That said, ttun SUCKS!
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Trying to find betting odds on DraftKings for a fight breaking out between the teams in that lame-ass antiquated dual-team tunnel. Gotta be -500 at least.
The Cotton Bowl has just one tunnel. Solution? Don't have both teams in it, at the same time. This is pretty simple stuff that we figured out down here in Texico about 80 years ago.
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Some "Rivalry." Most agreeable and hospitable "rival" fans I've ever encountered. Soon they'll be sharing tea and crumpets whilst sitting out on the veranda.
Ya right behind Ukraine-Russia little early for the Tito's or Live Oak,ain't it?
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The motivation should be high, as each player will have at the front of his mind, he is playing for the right to compete against the Hawkeyes.
:sign0085:
Goes with out saying
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"Locker room is a lot like my Mom’s bathing suits, like to see them in one piece." Jim Harbaugh
https://youtu.be/14gWMD2dfCA?t=289
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Lou Holtz disperses morsels of knowledge on the Buckeyes:
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lou-holtz-reveals-michigan-will-miss-most-jim-harbaugh-vs-ohio-state (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/lou-holtz-reveals-michigan-will-miss-most-jim-harbaugh-vs-ohio-state)
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Listened to a MGoBlog pod cast that made some interesting points...the overall opinion is that the Buckeyes are better on defense than last year but the offense, while improving, is not. Also pointed out that Michigan has been feeding College football eyes nothing but the same old vanilla all year long except for the Penn State game. With so many weapons on offense makes them wonder what they've been doing in practice.
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McCord has been spotty watching a podcast last night Letterman's Row I believe they said he's 3 of 9 in the Redzone.They said the Terps were 4 of 5 in the RZ vs UM. The have to get those.Offensive line has been suspect at times also.Treveon has been a beast when healthy and he's healthy and Marv wants this one bad.The Receiving corp is in good shape with Embuka,Fleming and TE Stover also factoring in. Buckeye LB's and Line had been very good on containment this season. IMO if McCord is going to move like the Tin Man after a rain storm go to to Brown/Kienholz if healthy. They need some flexibility from the QB,just to shake things up.If McCord plays like he displayed in the last QTR vs ND or last half last week,tOSU will be fine.UM cannot cover all those wide outs and keep an eye out on Treveyon also
As someone stated on a Buckeye Board posted "Yep. Michigan really lives on turnovers.But right now they seem to be specializing in turnover of coaches. With maybe more to come."
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Listened to a MGoBlog pod cast that made some interesting points...the overall opinion is that the Buckeyes are better on defense than last year but the offense, while improving, is not. Also pointed out that Michigan has been feeding College football eyes nothing but the same old vanilla all year long except for the Penn State game. With so many weapons on offense makes them wonder what they've been doing in practice.
the biggest shock to me about Michigan this year has been the lack of production from Donovan Edwards, who was absolutely incredible last year as a true sophomore. Basically been a non-factor. Which is puzzling considering his considerable talent.
There is also NO question that JJ has been worse at QB with Sherrone Moore as the HC. Moore just ain't it at HC, imo. And his play-calling and managing of JJ is just way too conservative in the 3 game sample size we have. Moore will be head coaching his 4th game, so 1/3rd of the season. IF JJ has another subpar performance with Moore as the HC, think that speaks volume about Moore's HC ability, or lack of ability I might say.
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McCord has been spotty watching a podcast last night Letterman's Row I believe they said he's 3 of 9 in the Redzone.They said the Terps were 4 of 5 in the RZ vs UM. The have to get those.Offensive line has been suspect at times also.Treveon has been a beast when healthy and he's healthy and Marv wants this one bad.The Receiving corp is in good shape with Embuka,Fleming and TE Stover also factoring in. Buckeye LB's and Line had been very good on containment this season. IMO if McCord is going to move like the Tin Man after a rain storm go to to Brown/Kienholz if healthy. They need some flexibility from the QB,just to shake things up.If McCord plays like he displayed in the last QTR vs ND or last half last week,tOSU will be fine.UM cannot cover all those wide outs and keep an eye out on Treveyon also
As someone stated on a Buckeye Board posted "Yep. Michigan really lives on turnovers.But right now they seem to be specializing in turnover of coaches. With maybe more to come."
How much playing time have Brown/Kieholz seen this year?
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McCord has been spotty watching a podcast last night Letterman's Row I believe they said he's 3 of 9 in the Redzone.They said the Terps were 4 of 5 in the RZ vs UM. The have to get those.Offensive line has been suspect at times also.Treveon has been a beast when healthy and he's healthy and Marv wants this one bad.The Receiving corp is in good shape with Embuka,Fleming and TE Stover also factoring in. Buckeye LB's and Line had been very good on containment this season. IMO if McCord is going to move like the Tin Man after a rain storm go to to Brown/Kienholz if healthy. They need some flexibility from the QB,just to shake things up.If McCord plays like he displayed in the last QTR vs ND or last half last week,tOSU will be fine.UM cannot cover all those wide outs and keep an eye out on Treveyon also
As someone stated on a Buckeye Board posted "Yep. Michigan really lives on turnovers.But right now they seem to be specializing in turnover of coaches. With maybe more to come."
McCord has been pretty good, much better than the Bucknutjobs trashing him all year have given him credit for. He's not CJ Stroud, but yeah, who is?
McCord like most inexperienced first time starting QBs has played significantly better at home than he has on the road. And this one will be by far his toughest road game. Michigan's defense will have to focus on shutting down Henderson and the OSU running game as best it can and just accept the fact that Marvin Harrison JR- who is the best player in all of CFB- is just going to get his.
Think you have a better shot beating Ohio State if you focus on shutting down the run and force everything on McCord.
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How much playing time have Brown/Kieholz seen this year?
Very little.
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This game often revolves around running game and special teams.
Michigan has the better, and more consistent running game. They have a WIDE advantage on special teams where Ohio State has been mediocre at best this season.
Plus- Michigan has the crowd/ home field.
Lastly, Michigan has the more experienced QB.
I have been saying it all along, but I think Michigan has not only the best team in the Big Ten but one of the top one or two nationally right there with Georgia
I see UM 24-13 ish kind if game. I would love to be wrong, of course
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https://youtu.be/yXZyudaOJEU?si=_V25JkEWEwFwKnF-
College Football Nerds had an interesting preview. Their model picks Michigan but both nerds picked Ohio State.
They picked Ohio State because Michigan's offense has curiously and dramatically underperformed ever since Stalions was dismissed. The nerds surmise that the sign stealing propped up Michigan and that without it the Wolverines will continue to struggle.
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How much playing time have Brown/Kieholz seen this year?
Brown got hurt about a month back when Day inexplicably put him in on a goal line QB sneak vs Penn St.Why he would risk his one dependable back up was a head scratcher .Keinholz got in last week I beleive and a few other times.If McCord can show some consistency and not over think his mechanics it should be a good game
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The nerds surmise that the sign stealing propped up Michigan and that without it the Wolverines will continue to struggle.
Too bad this all didn't happen when we still had CJ,Olave & Wilson
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cry me a river :'(
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https://youtu.be/yXZyudaOJEU?si=_V25JkEWEwFwKnF-
College Football Nerds had an interesting preview. Their model picks Michigan but both nerds picked Ohio State.
They picked Ohio State because Michigan's offense has curiously and dramatically underperformed ever since Stalions was dismissed. The nerds surmise that the sign stealing propped up Michigan and that without it the Wolverines will continue to struggle.
What I find interesting about this is that I'm not sure Stalions was stealing signs from the crappy teams in the conference. That's spending energy and budget on teams that don't pose a legitimate threat to Michigan anyway. I.e. they can annihilate Purdue whether they have Purdue's signs or not.
Seems to me that the only signs worth stealing were PSU and OSU. So the sample size of the first 9 games of the season might have been "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they were playing patsies", not "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they had the patsies' signs."
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What I find interesting about this is that I'm not sure Stalions was stealing signs from the crappy teams in the conference. That's spending energy and budget on teams that don't pose a legitimate threat to Michigan anyway. I.e. they can annihilate Purdue whether they have Purdue's signs or not.
Seems to me that the only signs worth stealing were PSU and OSU. So the sample size of the first 9 games of the season might have been "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they were playing patsies", not "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they had the patsies' signs."
Not entirely disagreeing but the fact that they were playing patsies was already accounted for by the spread.
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What I find interesting about this is that I'm not sure Stalions was stealing signs from the crappy teams in the conference. That's spending energy and budget on teams that don't pose a legitimate threat to Michigan anyway. I.e. they can annihilate Purdue whether they have Purdue's signs or not.
Seems to me that the only signs worth stealing were PSU and OSU. So the sample size of the first 9 games of the season might have been "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they were playing patsies", not "Michigan's offense was performing really well because they had the patsies' signs."
I think this is far more likely.
So really, we only have a sample size of 1 when it comes to results-- the PSU game.
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cry me a river :'(
Tell it to me friday afternoon when Brian opens the offense on you
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Not entirely disagreeing but the fact that they were playing patsies was already accounted for by the spread.
But it does imply that there are no meaningful statistics to be taken from any game other than PSU, and since that's a sample of one, well...
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They haven't been perusing the sidelines in the last month or so
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Not entirely disagreeing but the fact that they were playing patsies was already accounted for by the spread.
Michigan is 5-5-1 against the spread this year. I don't know the breakdown of which games and whether they happened before the scandal broke or not or after...
This would make sense if they never bothered to steal the signs of the weaker teams though.
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I thought there was evidence of Stallions at Purdue games?
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I thought there was evidence of Stallions at Purdue games?
I think so, but I think his tickets were on the Purdue sideline, ie filming Purdue's opponent
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damn it!
Was just tryin to give betar the business
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Michigan is 5-5-1 against the spread this year. I don't know the breakdown of which games and whether they happened before the scandal broke or not or after...
This would make sense if they never bothered to steal the signs of the weaker teams though.
The scandal broke just before they played Michigan State.
by the way, it has been printed that stallions stole the signs of every single known Michigan opponent, including each Big Ten team and Bowling Green. don’t know if that’s true or not but that’s what the investigation details said.
honestly I think Michigan’s challenging part of their schedule was in the back half the As opposed to front half. I have actually been impressed with their play because they have found a way to even murder the other team or at least control the line of scrimmage in such a way that I never thought they were in danger of losing It’s a damn good football team
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by the way, it has been printed that stallions stole the signs of every single known Michigan opponent, including each Big Ten team and Bowling Green. don’t know if that’s true or not but that’s what the investigation details said.
Is that true or did the articles state that he bought tickets to all other conference stadiums? I'm not sure that I've heard he had folks scouting the patsies. If you've seen that, let me know.
If it's just that he bought tickets to all 13 conference opponents but it was only to scout the future opponents that mattered (MSU/PSU/OSU) when they were the visiting team, that would still make sense.
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Is that true or did the articles state that he bought tickets to all other conference stadiums? I'm not sure that I've heard he had folks scouting the patsies. If you've seen that, let me know.
If it's just that he bought tickets to all 13 conference opponents but it was only to scout the future opponents that mattered (MSU/PSU/OSU) when they were the visiting team, that would still make sense.
https://www.tag24.com/sports/football/college-football/college-football-big-ten-coaches-make-push-to-punish-michigan-3000500
This one says CONFIRMED to have bought tickets in 12 of 13 Big ten stadiums. Also potential SEC playoff ( potential) opponents.
Remember- this goes back to the beginning of 21 season.
I read in several places that they scouted Ohio State eight times ( if you include the additional planned scouting of Ohio State this season) and Penn State four times.
so to your point they definitely spent more energy on the tougher teams. But I don’t think they didn’t scout the weaker teams because it sure looks like they did
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Michigan 24, Ohio State 23
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https://www.tag24.com/sports/football/college-football/college-football-big-ten-coaches-make-push-to-punish-michigan-3000500
This one says CONFIRMED to have bought tickets in 12 of 13 Big ten stadiums. Also potential SEC playoff ( potential) opponents.
Remember- this goes back to the beginning of 21 season.
I read in several places that they scouted Ohio State eight times ( if you include the additional planned scouting of Ohio State this season) and Penn State four times.
so to your point they definitely spent more energy on the tougher teams. But I don’t think they didn’t scout the weaker teams because it sure looks like they did
They might have. I can't confirm whether they had tickets on both sidelines for these games vs just the sideline with a view of the stronger team they were more interested in. But I kinda doubt they cared much about scouting the Hoosiers when they bought the ticket(s) to the season opener of OSU @ Indiana...
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Thoughts on this whole issue raised by @betarhoalphadelta (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19) and @utee94 (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=15) as to whether or not Michigan scouted the "patsies" or only PSU, tOSU, and a few others.
I was thinking about this and it might depend on just how far up the food-chain this whole cheating scheme went. Consider the two extremes:
Extreme #1, EVERYBODY up to and including Harbaugh knew, they had a big coaches meeting and decided to roll the dice and go for it:
In this case it would make sense to ONLY scout the opponents in games were a single loss would likely knock you out of the NC. The past two seasons that means just five games per season:
- Penn State - because a loss here creates a 3-way tie with tOSU and PSU and Michigan might not win the tiebreaker (PSU would have won in 2023, I'm not sure about 2022).
- Ohio State - because a loss here means you don't even tie for the B1G-E.
- B1GCG - because a loss here means you are NOT an undefeated or 1-loss P5 Champion because you aren't a P5 Champion.
- CFP Semi-Final - Lose here and you are out.
- CFP CG - Duh.
So long as Michigan goes at least 9-1 in their other 10 games, they *PROBABLY* would make the CFP anyway as a 12-1 B1G Champion and they would almost certainly be ahead of any other B1G teams.
Even here though, I would think that they would probably have wanted to "field test" their scheme in at least one or two "patsy" games just to make sure that they had it running smoothly. One would think that Harbaugh would veto any additional scouting as being unnecessarily risky and simply not worth the effort/cost/risk to get bigger wins against teams that Michigan is probably going to beat regardless.
Extreme #2, Stalions is a Con Man and lone wolf and NOBODY else knows exactly how he is getting his information. Maybe he just convinced them all that he is "Rain Man". In this case, I think he has to scout as many Michigan opponents as possible because he has to demonstrate the efficacy of what he is doing BEFORE the big games. The coordinators aren't going to suddenly trust him ONLY in the humongous games against PSU/tOSU if they haven't seen him produce successful results in prior games.
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Extreme #2, Stalions is a Con Man and lone wolf and NOBODY else knows exactly how he is getting his information. Maybe he just convinced them all that he is "Rain Man". In this case, I think he has to scout as many Michigan opponents as possible because he has to demonstrate the efficacy of what he is doing BEFORE the big games. The coordinators aren't going to suddenly trust him ONLY in the humongous games against PSU/tOSU if they haven't seen him produce successful results in prior games.
This is true. But if he established the credibility in 2021, he easily could have dialed it back in 2022 and 2023 having already built up that credibility.
- 2021 Michigan was 11-3 ATS
- 2022 that dropped to 8-5-1 ATS
- 2023 that dropped again to 5-5-1 ATS
Now, there are multiple possible explanations for this. One, of course, is that Vegas was wising up after 2021 and pushing the spreads higher and higher on Michigan because they overperformed. Another would be that they only scouted certain teams, because they determined that some games just didn't require that level of scrutiny to assure a win.
BTW here are the 2023 results--bold in the rightmost column means they beat the spread:
(https://i.imgur.com/naP1R5o.png)
It is very interesting that in the first three OOC games, which would be ones I don't think they would bother trying to steal signals, they didn't beat the spread. Then in the next three weeks before the MSU game when the scandal broke and Stalions wasn't on the sideline, they went 3-0-1 ATS. After the story broke? 2-2-0 ATS.
The sample size here is WAY too small, of course. And as Mdot pointed out, they were beating the spread in the Purdue game up until a garbage-time score against their scrubs. So that was pretty close to 3-1-0 for those 4 games.
I'm not sure we can really give a strong lean either way based on what is at best circumstantial evidence here that they did or didn't steal those weaker conference mates' signals.
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This is true. But if he established the credibility in 2021, he easily could have dialed it back in 2022 and 2023 having already built up that credibility.
- 2021 Michigan was 11-3 ATS
- 2022 that dropped to 8-5-1 ATS
- 2023 that dropped again to 5-5-1 ATS
Now, there are multiple possible explanations for this. One, of course, is that Vegas was wising up after 2021 and pushing the spreads higher and higher on Michigan because they overperformed. Another would be that they only scouted certain teams, because they determined that some games just didn't require that level of scrutiny to assure a win.
BTW here are the 2023 results--bold in the rightmost column means they beat the spread:
[img width=274.381 height=402]https://i.imgur.com/naP1R5o.png[/img]
It is very interesting that in the first three OOC games, which would be ones I don't think they would bother trying to steal signals, they didn't beat the spread. Then in the next three weeks before the MSU game when the scandal broke and Stalions wasn't on the sideline, they went 3-0-1 ATS. After the story broke? 2-2-0 ATS.
The sample size here is WAY too small, of course. And as Mdot pointed out, they were beating the spread in the Purdue game up until a garbage-time score against their scrubs. So that was pretty close to 3-1-0 for those 4 games.
I'm not sure we can really give a strong lean either way based on what is at best circumstantial evidence here that they did or didn't steal those weaker conference mates' signals.
You make a good point, the sample size is way too small to draw any definitive conclusions.
I don't know what these figures actually are, but I'm sure the Vegas guys have a handle on probabilities and know, for example:
- 80% of teams are 45-55% ATS
- 90% are 40-60% ATS
- 95% are 35-65% ATS
Somewhere in there they draw a line and start investigating. Ie, if my made up figures are correct then only about 5% of teams are going to be either below .350 or above .650 ATS. There are about 130 teams so they could just investigate anybody outside of those parameters and that would be ~7 investigations/year.
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This certainly has to be concerning to Buckeye fans...
https://twitter.com/Scott_Bings/status/1727417601712632141?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1727417601712632141%7Ctwgr%5Eee3ce1c775377cb8d6ee1f8f124a65f3ef2bc535%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fscott_bings%2Fstatus%2F1727417601712632141%3Fs%3D4626t%3D2sJHRYJsu1wETnuOQIcqSg
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No. Not even a little.
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(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user39754/JIM%20HARBAUGH%20BO.jpg)
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This certainly has to be concerning to Buckeye fans...
https://twitter.com/Scott_Bings/status/1727417601712632141?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1727417601712632141%7Ctwgr%5Eee3ce1c775377cb8d6ee1f8f124a65f3ef2bc535%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surlyhorns.com%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fscott_bings%2Fstatus%2F1727417601712632141%3Fs%3D4626t%3D2sJHRYJsu1wETnuOQIcqSg
The guy is of course- a Michigan slappy. Makes up all kinds of shit. This is what they do. 🤷♂️
https://www.reddit.com/r/OhioStateFootball/comments/17qmzfk/coach_day_was_the_snitch_scott_bingsburg_on_x/
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Don't know, seemed totally legit to me... :)
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Don't know, seemed totally legit to me... :)
😂. They thank you for your support.
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That'll be the Day.
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38-27 Buckeyes.
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I'll be pulling for OSU if for no other reason than the drama that will ensue.
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38-27 Buckeyes.
I hope so!
In case you are right, I'm going volunteer my services as a speech-writer and here is my first draft of a speech for Ryan Day's post-game press conference:
"Good evening and thank you for this opportunity to speak to you. None of our players will be made available and I will not be taking any questions after my statement.
As you saw today, my team is a lot tougher when our opponent doesn't cheat and know all of our play calls in advance. If you think about it, knowing all of your opponents' play calls is a bit like starting the game on third base.
I want to take a step back and talk about our hosts. The University of Michigan is a great University, it is truly a world class institution of research and higher learning. Unfortunately the cheating Michigan Football program is an embarrassment to a great institution. They are an embarrassment to the conference and to all the member institutions including the one I represent.
Cheating has real life consequences for real kids and they are the biggest victims of Michigan's cheating. The Wolverines have a very good team this year as they did the last two years but their accomplishments will always exist under a cloud of suspicion.
Coming into this game last year my QB, CJ Stroud was the favorite for the Heisman trophy. It is entirely possible that Michigan would have won the last two years without cheating but we will never know because the Michigan Football Program chose not to play the last two years without cheating. We'll never know what would have happened if they hadn't cheated because we can't go back in time and eliminate Michigan's cheating.
Finally, I want to address one more issue. Members of my family have literally received death threats due to insinuations and rumors including some put out by a University of Michigan Regent that I was behind the investigation into the massive cheating operation conducted by the University of Michigan's Football Program over at least the past three years. Those rumors and insinuations are completely false and it is beneath the stature of a University Regent to engage in such blatant falsehoods. It also may be legally actionable as members of my family and I have been forced to absorb security costs due to these lies. (Only include this paragraph if it is true).
I want to again thank you for your time and thank the University of Michigan for hosting us today, we will enjoy our trip back home.
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This certainly has to be concerning to Buckeye fans...
https://twitter.com/Scott_Bings/status/1727417601712632141?
Guy wasn't right for a week or maybe his sources
well Bill Engvall was right - here's your sign!!!
(https://i.imgur.com/Vzgs8oj.png)
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Lies, Damn Lies, and . . .
I've said for a long time that the statistic I would most like to see added to Box Scores is "Median Rush".
For those unfamiliar with statistics, the average yards per carry is simply the total rushing yards divided by the total number of carries.
The problem with averages is that they can be skewed by outliers. For example, according to Google, Elon Musk is the wealthiest individual in the world with a net worth of $219.9 Billion. So it would almost certainly be accurate for me to say that the average wealth of Elon Musk and I and the last eight people to comment in this thread is about $22 Billion each. It is also extraordinarily misleading because none of us are worth anywhere close to $22 Billion. Elon Musk is worth 10x that and the rest of us each have a net worth that rounds to zero if rounded to the nearest Billion.
I bring this up because I was looking at Michigan's rushing statistics in the last two editions of The Game:
- 2021: 41 for 297, 7.2 yards per carry average
- 2022: 35 for 252, 7.2 yards per carry average.
In each case they had two kneel-downs each for a loss of one so if you exclude those you get:
- 2021: 39 for 299, 7.7 yards per carry average
- 2022: 33 for 254, 7.7 yards per carry average.
Just looking at averages it *LOOKS* like nothing much changed. Michigan hit the same 7.2/7.7 per carry and just bullied tOSU. I (and most tOSU fans) would absolutely agree with that assessment of the 2021 game but it is HIGHLY misleading wrt the 2022 game. Lets look at the Median:
- 2021: Median of 6
- 2022: Median of 3
The median is the yards gained on the middle carry (or if there are an even number of carries, the average of the one below and the one above the middle). Ie, in this case and excluding the two kneel-downs each year:
- 2021: Michigan had 19 carries of 5 yards or less, six carries of exactly 6 yards, and 14 carries of more than 6 yards
- 2022: Michigan had 16 carries of 2 yards or less, four carries of exactly 3 yards, and 13 carries of more than 3 yards.
The averages are the same but the medians are VERY different because the games were very different. In 2021 Ohio State only held Michigan to a loss or no gain on two out of 39 carries, roughly one in 20. In 2022 Ohio State held Michigan to a loss or no gain on eight out of 33 carries, roughly one in four.
In a related note, Ohio State effectively stifled the Michigan rushing attack in the 2022 game up until the very end. Here are the first 28 carries in the two years:
- 2021: 28 for 206, 7.4 yards per carry
- 2022: 28 for 85, 3.0 yards per carry.
In order to do that Ohio State had to make trade-offs. The tOSU defense played the bulk of the 2022 game without any safeties deep. That directly led to Michigan crushing Ohio State with long plays because basically every time a single Ohio State defender missed the Wolverine was off to the races with no Buckeyes in position to prevent the TD.
One illustration of this is that in 2021 Michigan had nine carries of between 11 and 55 yards. In 2022 they only had two. Why, well because in 2022 most runs were stopped WAY before they got to 11 yards but the few that weren't went all the way.
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https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2023/11/how-ryan-day-and-jim-harbaugh-are-fueling-the-greatest-version-the-ohio-state-vs-michigan-game-of-all-time.html?outputType=amp
Thought this article was pretty good. They commented on both coaches being asked if they respected the other. Both ducked the question with what this article described as "long winded ways of saying 'no'".
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https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2023/11/someone-in-ann-arbor-stole-my-sign-7-signs-ohio-state-football-fans-would-bring-to-espn-gameday.html?outputType=amp
GameDay sign ideas from the Plain Dealer, my favorites:
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Probably one of the most overrated coached in the history of college football, is Bo.
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Lies, Damn Lies, and . . .
I've said for a long time that the statistic I would most like to see added to Box Scores is "Median Rush".
For those unfamiliar with statistics, the average yards per carry is simply the total rushing yards divided by the total number of carries.
The problem with averages is that they can be skewed by outliers. For example, according to Google, Elon Musk is the wealthiest individual in the world with a net worth of $219.9 Billion. So it would almost certainly be accurate for me to say that the average wealth of Elon Musk and I and the last eight people to comment in this thread is about $22 Billion each. It is also extraordinarily misleading because none of us are worth anywhere close to $22 Billion. Elon Musk is worth 10x that and the rest of us each have a net worth that rounds to zero if rounded to the nearest Billion.
I bring this up because I was looking at Michigan's rushing statistics in the last two editions of The Game:
- 2021: 41 for 297, 7.2 yards per carry average
- 2022: 35 for 252, 7.2 yards per carry average.
In each case they had two kneel-downs each for a loss of one so if you exclude those you get:
- 2021: 39 for 299, 7.7 yards per carry average
- 2022: 33 for 254, 7.7 yards per carry average.
Just looking at averages it *LOOKS* like nothing much changed. Michigan hit the same 7.2/7.7 per carry and just bullied tOSU. I (and most tOSU fans) would absolutely agree with that assessment of the 2021 game but it is HIGHLY misleading wrt the 2022 game. Lets look at the Median:
- 2021: Median of 6
- 2022: Median of 3
The median is the yards gained on the middle carry (or if there are an even number of carries, the average of the one below and the one above the middle). Ie, in this case and excluding the two kneel-downs each year:
- 2021: Michigan had 19 carries of 5 yards or less, six carries of exactly 6 yards, and 14 carries of more than 6 yards
- 2022: Michigan had 16 carries of 2 yards or less, four carries of exactly 3 yards, and 13 carries of more than 3 yards.
The averages are the same but the medians are VERY different because the games were very different. In 2021 Ohio State only held Michigan to a loss or no gain on two out of 39 carries, roughly one in 20. In 2022 Ohio State held Michigan to a loss or no gain on eight out of 33 carries, roughly one in four.
In a related note, Ohio State effectively stifled the Michigan rushing attack in the 2022 game up until the very end. Here are the first 28 carries in the two years:
- 2021: 28 for 206, 7.4 yards per carry
- 2022: 28 for 85, 3.0 yards per carry.
In order to do that Ohio State had to make trade-offs. The tOSU defense played the bulk of the 2022 game without any safeties deep. That directly led to Michigan crushing Ohio State with long plays because basically every time a single Ohio State defender missed the Wolverine was off to the races with no Buckeyes in position to prevent the TD.
One illustration of this is that in 2021 Michigan had nine carries of between 11 and 55 yards. In 2022 they only had two. Why, well because in 2022 most runs were stopped WAY before they got to 11 yards but the few that weren't went all the way.
Yup.
Learned this making my game. And you can look it up in most box scores - for RBs they have a "Long Rush" column. And often, the long rush is under 20 yards.
Most carries - a vast majority for any RB - are 0-4 yards. But none of them are memorable.
Here's an example from Whoa Nellie:
(https://i.imgur.com/Us4fsxc.jpg)
Just focus on the red numbers. Most rushes are short/avg. But longer runs do happen, so to keep the stats accurate, you need that long 18 yard rush amongst the more unremarkable yardage gains.
Even for players or teams that have impressive averages, they still have mostly pedestrian runs.
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Probably one of the most overrated coached in the history of college football, is Bo.
There are two sides to this argument.
His Bowl record and consequent lack of even one NC certainly support your assertion. Bo's teams actually won Bowl games in two of his last three and three of his last five seasons but the overall record was worse than dismal:
- In his first six seasons (1969-1974) the B1G had the Rose Bowl or bust rule and he went 0-2.
- Then he lost an Orange Bowl, three more Rose Bowls, and a Gator Bowl to drop to 0-7.
- Then he won a RoseBowl followed by a Bluebonnet Bowl to improve to 2-7.
- Then he lost three more (Rose, Sugar, Holiday) to drop to 2-10.
- He finished 3-2 in Bowls in his last five seasons for a final Bowl record of 5-12.
In opposition to your assertion I would submit that he resurrected Michigan Football. The Wolverines sucked for nearly twenty years prior to Bo's arrival and were well on their way to "Minnesota" status until he showed up.
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So he cheated?
:29:
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So he cheated?
:29:
I thought that went without saying.
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I'm not sure OSU's o-line gonna survive this one. If they are decent, OSU has a chance, but I'm not confident they will be.
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I thought that went without saying.
Bo made hay in the 1970's when his only competition was OSU.
Iowa hired Fry and started to make noise. UW hired McClain and started to make noise. MSU had Perles and started to make noise. Illinois made noise (cheated to do so under Mike White but had success under Macovic).
He retired in 1989, winning the Big Ten 4 times in the 1980's. Things changed. He did not.
When the B1G announced Penn State, he denounced the move, saying he didn't understand why and that the Big Ten was not getting Joe Paterno for long. That did not age well.
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Bo would have been fired after the 84 season in today's climate. And possibly even in '79.
I say 1979 because he'd lost 3 straight Rose Bowls and then went 8-4 and lost in the Gator Bowl that season.
It would've been a "he's never getting us over the hump" firing, which would have been accurate.
Going 6-6 in '84 and handing the NC to BYU, while being 10 years removed from his last 1-loss season would definitely had him booted nowadays.
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LoL
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I'm not sure OSU's o-line gonna survive this one. If they are decent, OSU has a chance, but I'm not confident they will be.
YUP,this is where I'm little P.O'd with DAY.He hasn't really recruited the trenches that well being enamored with the supposed "skill" set. That might be changing but Booger certainly out portaled him and at what Day is paid it shouldn't need pointing out
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YUP,this is where I'm little P.O'd with DAY.He hasn't really recruited the trenches that well being enamored with the supposed "skill" set. That might be changing but Booger certainly out portaled him and at what Day is paid it shouldn't need pointing out
Yes. No way he puts 3 starters into the NFL again this year. :57:
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Jones has played well in Cleveland but the Buckeys just aren't deep - IMO.And they did get shoved around alot the past 2 seasons vs UM.I am willing to eat a lot of humble pie after today's game though
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McCord doesn’t look good.
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Yup DAY grow a pair and replace him gotta change it up
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That’s a TD. Klatt is overthinking it.
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Congratulations to Michigan Fans on your team winning The Game.
I has sad.
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It was a really close game, guys. The TD call on the pass to Roman Wilson and near interception/fumble recovery in the end zone by Denzell Burke demonstrates the thin margin by which Michigan prevailed.
A blowout in "The Game" would have improved the Seminoles chances of making the playoff.
I have to root for a Washington State win, now. And, voila, Washington State just tied the game with Washington in the closing seconds of the 1st half.
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(https://i.imgur.com/yUuMi0n.png)
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Buckeye radio said Ryan Day went up the tunnel to console Michigan OG Zinter’s parents after the injury. Classy.
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In a twist of fate, I did get to watch this game. I was out of town at my mom's house over the weekend, and they don't get ESPN. I could've watched LSU on my phone, but I chose to go with the big screen in the living room and watch Mich/Ohio State instead.
Again, what is happening to me?
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In a twist of fate, I did get to watch this game. I was out of town at my mom's house over the weekend, and they don't get ESPN. I could've watched LSU on my phone, but I chose to go with the big screen in the living room and watch Mich/Ohio State instead.
Again, what is happening to me?
B1G board rubbing off, perhaps?
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Damn you all.
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:57:
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great Job Saturday by reliever Sherrone Moore, who stranded a runner on third base as Michigan beat Ohio State again! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoBlue?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoBlue</a> <a href="https://t.co/99XK02lSfX">https://t.co/99XK02lSfX</a> <a href="https://t.co/UMaUqE3oGj">pic.twitter.com/UMaUqE3oGj</a></p>— Michigan Baseball (@umichbaseball) <a href="https://twitter.com/umichbaseball/status/1729227165001203914?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great Job Saturday by reliever Sherrone Moore, who stranded a runner on third base as Michigan beat Ohio State again! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoBlue?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoBlue</a> <a href="https://t.co/99XK02lSfX">https://t.co/99XK02lSfX</a> <a href="https://t.co/UMaUqE3oGj">pic.twitter.com/UMaUqE3oGj</a></p>— Michigan Baseball (@umichbaseball) <a href="https://twitter.com/umichbaseball/status/1729227165001203914?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
😂😂. Have to admit- that’s funny.
Moore did a nice job - he was playing to win as opposed to “ not to lose”.
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was at the game. easily the best sporting event I have ever been to in my life. better than the Super Bowl. better than the National Title game.
take away from that game. Marvin Harrison Jr is an alien. Seeing him in person, wow. Will Johnson is the best CB that Michigan has had since Charles Woodson. He's better than Marlin Jackson who went 1st rd and he's better than Leon Hall who went 1st rd. They haven't had a CB this good since....yeah....long time.
Those were the two best players I saw in that game and I don't think it's close. And I'd give the edge to Marv. He made two catches vs Johnson that were straight up unreal. One was a play he got interfered with by Johnson- smartly by Johnson- who got beat off the line on a go route by Harrison and Harrison STILL caught it with one hand- and another was an insane diving twisting catch thrown behind him in which Johnson actually had pretty good coverage.
Johnson got hurt and didn't finish the 2nd half and Ohio State simply didn't throw the ball enough to Marv- but those two guys are about AS GOOD AS IT GETS for the college level. High 1st rd draft picks and it's OBVIOUS to see that in person. They jump out off the field and seeing them up close in person- it's like YEAH....that's what NFL WR's and CB's look like- the size, frame, length, athleticism.
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I bet that was fun to watch. Great corners going against great WRs are always something to see. I got to see one of the 3 college rounds between Patrick Peterson and Julio Jones, was a great matchup from '08 - '10
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To add to Mdot, other guys that impressed:
JT Tuimoloa - Ohio state was able to get sustained pass pressure because of him. Disruptive. Great against run.
Ohio State's DT - One of the DT's played a whale of a game. Had the lone sack and plugged inside run until Michigan started exhausting them in the 4th. Even then though, the running lanes that were opening were coming from under Center and were handoffs working to the edge.
All the TE's - Stover, Loveland, and Barner all are fantastic. Barner more of a blocker, but all were impressive.
Igbinosun & Sainristl - I know Burke and Johnson were the guys everyone in the NFL has their eyes on. Igbinosun is a guy Michigan wanted very badly in the portal last year from Ole Miss. He's a physical corner. Sainristl was all over the field again. And they put him over Harrison when Johnson got hurt. Quite the transition from slot WR to where he is now.
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To add to Mdot, other guys that impressed:
JT Tuimoloa - Ohio state was able to get sustained pass pressure because of him. Disruptive. Great against run.
Ohio State's DT - One of the DT's played a whale of a game. Had the lone sack and plugged inside run until Michigan started exhausting them in the 4th. Even then though, the running lanes that were opening were coming from under Center and were handoffs working to the edge.
All the TE's - Stover, Loveland, and Barner all are fantastic. Barner more of a blocker, but all were impressive.
Igbinosun & Sainristl - I know Burke and Johnson were the guys everyone in the NFL has their eyes on. Igbinosun is a guy Michigan wanted very badly in the portal last year from Ole Miss. He's a physical corner. Sainristl was all over the field again. And they put him over Harrison when Johnson got hurt. Quite the transition from slot WR to where he is now.
Good observations. The DT that had the great game was Mike Hall. The other DT that has been good all year is Tyliek Williams.
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2nd highest tv rated THE GAME ever (2006 epic #1 vs #2 being highest) and highest tv rated regular season CFB game since 2011.
https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2023/11/ohio-state-michigan-ratings-second-most-watched-record-fox/
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a shit ton of folks got to see the Buckeyes lose
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There are at least 3X as many want to see tOSU lose as see the Bugeaters win,see there I bit :)
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I remember the good ol daze when most folks wanted to see the bugeaters take a beatin
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I remember the good ol daze when most folks wanted to see the bugeaters take a beatin
Yup. Way better to be feared and hated, than pitied.
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no shit
at least livin in Iowa, my neighbors won't get to the pity stage until long after I'm gone
I'll see plenty of Hawkeyes at the bar eating wings tonight
Oh Joy!
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Hope you're sharing the many Michigan signs you stole
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https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1729896811152785576?s=20
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https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1729924929515352424?s=20
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https://twitter.com/TheHerd/status/1729924929515352424?s=20
It shows you that coaches CAN learn and improve.
What was Harbaugh, 0- for his first 7 seasons against OSU? And quite a few of those losses were blowouts.
His best move was to opt out of the game during the COVID year. Even though it was a slime ball move ( he made sure to tweet that his team had a very “spirited practice that weekend)- designed to keep OSU out of the Big Title game ( remember that’s the year that Ohio State did not have enough conference games to qualify and needed to play the Michigan game, but the Big Ten voted to let Ohio State play because they were better than Indiana.) It saved his job, saved him from being 0-2 versus Day.
I am certain that it is purely a crazy coincidence that the illegal scouting and recording of signals began the very next season as did this turnaround.
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my two cents…
Michigan got a lot better the last 3 seasons via coaching hires like Mike MacDonald, Jesse Minter, Sherrone Moore, Mike Hart, abs Steve Clinkscale and they have recruited much better players especially at QB and RB. Jeem’s Michigan teams had very mid QBs before JJ and if we’re being honest the RBs were kinda meh as well. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards make a difference.
Meanwhile OSU definitely got better offensively but it might’ve lost it’s physical toughness/edge that Meyer teams always had without Urbz there. I feel like this was the first year that Day had a team with a legit defense- and Meyer is known as an offensive coach but if you look at his teams even going back to FL they always had exceptional defenses. Feel like this was the first time Day had one of those.
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my two cents…
Michigan got a lot better the last 3 seasons via coaching hires like Mike MacDonald, Jesse Minter, Sherrone Moore, Mike Hart, abs Steve Clinkscale and they have recruited much better players especially at QB and RB. Jeem’s Michigan teams had very mid QBs before JJ and if we’re being honest the RBs were kinda meh as well. Blake Corum and Donovan Edwards make a difference.
Meanwhile OSU definitely got better offensively but it might’ve lost it’s physical toughness/edge that Meyer teams always had without Urbz there. I feel like this was the first year that Day had a team with a legit defense- and Meyer is known as an offensive coach but if you look at his teams even going back to FL they always had exceptional defenses. Feel like this was the first time Day had one of those.
You are mostly correct about OSU. But you are forgetting 2019.
Day hired the relatively unknown Jeff Hafley as his DC. OSU had a top 5 defense that year in every category and made the CFP, where they lost to the officials and Clemson.
Harley went to BC the very next season.
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Knowles and Minter are two very good DC’s with different philosophies.
Michigan constantly changes personnel. As many 5 guys swapping out based on down, distance and offensive grouping. They get caught with their pants down sometimes when teams don’t swap out and go tempo after converting a 1st down. Ohio State took advantage of that a couple times with Michigan’s D line. Minter was also disguising coverages differently than they had all season
Knowles sticks to a very consistent 4-2-5 with nearly the same personnel every down and distance. He kept the two safeties high all game to eliminate the big plays from 2022. Pressure came from LB, but OSU also was able to get to JJ with just their front 4 too. The Michigan offensive plan seemed to try to attack the LB’s with the TE’s and some cutback running plays under center that got OSU LB’s overplaying the ball
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my two cents…
Michigan got a lot better the last 3 seasons via coaching hires like Mike MacDonald, Jesse Minter, Sherrone Moore, Mike Hart, abs Steve Clinkscale
Coaches Weiss,Partridge and Stalions say hello ;D
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Knowles and Minter are two very good DC’s with different philosophies.
Michigan constantly changes personnel. As many 5 guys swapping out based on down, distance and offensive grouping. They get caught with their pants down sometimes when teams don’t swap out and go tempo after converting a 1st down. Ohio State took advantage of that a couple times with Michigan’s D line. Minter was also disguising coverages differently than they had all season
Knowles sticks to a very consistent 4-2-5 with nearly the same personnel every down and distance. He kept the two safeties high all game to eliminate the big plays from 2022. Pressure came from LB, but OSU also was able to get to JJ with just their front 4 too. The Michigan offensive plan seemed to try to attack the LB’s with the TE’s and some cutback running plays under center that got OSU LB’s overplaying the ball
Exactly. I give the two coordinators for UM a lot of credit. Excellent plan and near perfect execution.
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This picture was pretty vivid from sideline photographer Zoey Holmstrom.
It was pretty clear Tuimoloau and Keegan were right by Zinter and saw his compound fracture and his leg going the opposite direction of what it should.
Ryan Day also ran up the tunnel to Zinter and his parents as he was carted off.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_5iUuyXEAARstA.jpg)
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Coaches Weiss,Partridge and Stalions say hello ;D
Weiss was a trash coach and recruiter, thank god he got himself fired. And while Patridge is an ace recruiter he's not really known for his coaching prowess. Stallions was a support staffer and not an actual coach....