CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on July 17, 2023, 07:22:58 PM
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I was thinking the other day about this. TE is a sort of under-represented position, not sexy, kind of lost in the mix.
The one good thing about it is that there are so few statistically-elite TEs in college history that you can pretty much put up the guy who was great in your memory against anyone and have an argument.
Like I remember Alonzo Mayes at OK State having some great catches.
Pete Mitchell at BC getting 8-12 yards over and over and over again.
Kyle Pitts a couple of years ago being sick or Brock Bowers today.
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Who are some TEs that may or may not have gotten any All-American love that you recall being really great?
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One opponent of Florida I was scared of was OU's Jermaine Gresham. He played so big and I didn't know how anyone could cover him.
I assume many people will cite Keith Jackson, also from OU. I think one thing special with him was that OU could run a reverse with him. I don't think many other TEs could be used that way, but Bowers is one.
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The problem is that TE can mean a LOT of different things, as TE is a sort of hybrid position that is a lineman required to block, but also an eligible receiver to catch passes.
A lot of the great receiver TEs are just bigger/slower WRs, and are rarely asked to block, and often aren't all that effective at it. They put up gaudy stats because they're too fast for a linebacker to cover and too big/strong for a safety to cover. I recall Dustin Keller at Purdue in roughly the 2005-2008 (don't recall exactly, but he overlapped heavily with Curtis Painter who was the QB for those years) being this type.
Whereas a lot of blocking TEs are excellent at blocking, and are kind of uber-athletic tackles. Those TEs are often only used as safety valve pass-catchers in an offense when the QB gets pressured. So you don't see a lot of them on the stat sheet, but they're on the field because they're still useful to the offense.
To me, the ideal would be a TE that actually fills both roles. I can't necessarily think of someone at the collegiate level that sticks out to me in this sense, but at the pro level you're looking at a George Kittle type. Truly loves and excels at flatting a defender in the blocking scheme, but also a massive weapon in the passing game. Edit: And the advantage of these guys is that they stay on the field and aren't a "tell" for the offense whether you're running or passing.
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I will cite Keith Jackson, from OU
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The best college TE I probably ever saw was Winslow Jr. As far as TE who didn’t get AA attention that’s a tough one. I’d have to think about that one.
This is obviously biased but WVU had a TE in the mid 90’s named Lovett Purnell who was a really good college TE, but not someone anyone would remember. Was drafted by the Patriots I believe but never really did anything in the NFL.
His senior year he caught 37 passes for 614 yards. That’s 16.5 YPC. That’s a pretty serious YPC for a TE, and he was in a pro style offense too. Not to take anything away from Jackson because he was great, but some of his YPC was a result of OU running 20 times in a row and then sneaking him down the field for a big play.
Syracuse had a dude in the 90s named Chris Gedney who I remember being pretty good.
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The best college TE I probably ever saw was Winslow Jr. As far as TE who didn’t get AA attention that’s a tough one. I’d have to think about that one.
Man I was at the OSU-Miami game and that guy just wrecked them. Luckily he was the only guy who did. Also good lord he wrecked his life.
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Man I was at the OSU-Miami game and that guy just wrecked them. Luckily he was the only guy who did. Also good lord he wrecked his life.
Was there as well. I agree. They had no answer for him.
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Yes, Jackson had a huge ypc as a residue of few pass attempts, but he abused folks in one on one, and could run those reverses so well.
He basically beat Nebraska in 85 and 86.
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Was there as well. I agree. They had no answer for him.
Me three.
He was a tough riddle to crack. He was just too big and strong for a DB and too fast for a LBer. You almost had to double him because you needed a fast guy in case he went deep and a strong guy to fight with him in close.
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Yes, Jackson had a huge ypc as a residue of few pass attempts, but he abused folks in one on one, and could run those reverses so well.
He basically beat Nebraska in 85 and 86.
85
the Sooners set the tone early with an 88-yard touchdown run by tight end Keith Jackson with scarcely three minutes gone in the first quarter.
RUSHING: OU: Jackson 3-136
RECEIVING: OU: Jackson 1-38.
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86
OU drove 94 yards on 11 plays to tie the game at 17-all on a 17-yard touchdown pass from Jamelle Holieway to Keith Jackson with 1:22 left, forced a Nebraska punt, then got within field-goal range on a third-down, 41-yard pass from Holieway to Jackson with nine seconds to go.
Receiving OU: Jackson 3-87
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At UW, Lance Kendricks. He peaked late, but he was awesome.
Overall? Pitts was up there as a playmaker, although he didn’t get a full final season. Honestly each Georgia guy from last year had a case.
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David Thomas played on the 2005 NC Longhorn team
I pick him as the best Longhorn TE Ive seen
here is a clip on him I dont think the Horns win without him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O86zWdI222I
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Ricky Dudley at OSU reminded me of Eddie George, his teammate. Sort of long and maybe thin for his position, but could make plays.
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David Thomas played on the 2005 NC Longhorn team
I pick him as the best Longhorn TE Ive seen
here is a clip on him I dont think the Horns win without him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O86zWdI222I
David Thomas was a very good college TE.
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Iowa is Tight End U, and so we have seen a lot of good ones.
I would say it started out with Jonathan Hayes, Mike Flagg, and Marv Cook. This was 4th and 23 from the Ohio State 26-yard line, on Iowa's last offensive play of the day, where they eked out a win in Columbus in 1987. Marv Cook helped Earle Bruce return to his roots in Iowa to find a new head coaching job at UNI. Cook had a great pro career.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7M85CGjegs)(26) Marv Cook game winning TD catch vs. OSU 1987 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glpXQMseD8k)
Then I thought Dallas Clark was the greatest tight end. He played 8-man football in high school and walked on. He had a great pro career, too.
(26) 2002 Iowa vs Purdue - 95 Yard Dallas Clark TD - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXIGXklhQy0) Then, for the winner:
(26) Brad Banks to Dallas Clark for the Win. 2002 Iowa Hawkeyes - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_WjqbeBBMk)
Then there was George Kittle.
(26) Iowa TE George Kittle Career Highlights ᴴᴰ - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493zgyJap1Y)
Noah Fant:
(26) 2019 NFL Draft: Iowa TE Noah Fant Season Highlights | B1G Football - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDTe7WpmwHg)
But Noah Fant who was a 1st round draft pick and the greatest TE recruit in Iowa hx, had to compete against another Iowa tight end, T.J. Hockensen who was probably the greatest TE in Iowa hx, and an earlier 1st round draft pick:
(26) 2019 NFL Draft: Iowa TE T.J. Hockenson Season Highlights | B1G Football - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyZNK40CkF4)
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Gimme someone from Iowa.
Keith Jackson was a beast, as was Winslow.
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To me, the ideal would be a TE that actually fills both roles. I can't necessarily think of someone at the collegiate level that sticks out to me in this sense, but at the pro level you're looking at a George Kittle type. Truly loves and excels at flatting a defender in the blocking scheme, but also a massive weapon in the passing game. Edit: And the advantage of these guys is that they stay on the field and aren't a "tell" for the offense whether you're running or passing.
Well George Kittle did play college football before the NFL but I will concede that the George Kittle that played at Iowa was not quite playing at the same level he has achieved in the NFL. Partly due to Kittle being hurt often at Iowa and not being at full speed and strength.
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I don't know about the single best TE in college but as far as which team had the best pair of TE's in history, Iowa had a pair of TEs in 2018 that both were drafted in the first round of the 2019 NFL draft.
Iowa TE T.J. Hockeson won the Mackey award in 2018 and was drafted 7th overall in the 2019 NFL draft. Iowa TE Noah Fant was drafted 20th overall in the same draft.
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^^^
That is a first, perhaps?
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Man I was at the OSU-Miami game and that guy just wrecked them. Luckily he was the only guy who did. Also good lord he wrecked his life.
Yes he did,Butch Davis though had no business putting him on the Kick off team his 1st play from scrimmage in the NFL pre-season. Ripping up his knee,evidently doing wheelies on crotch rockets the following summer were part of his physical therapy and he ripped it up again - the Browns luck.A year or two later Braylon Edwards ripped his knee as did LeCharles Bentley on his 1st play there after signing as a FA - all conspiring against me
Any way Kyle Pitts was a load and checked all of the boxes as were Winslow Jr/Sr
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The best college TE I probably ever saw was Winslow Jr. As far as TE who didn’t get AA attention that’s a tough one. I’d have to think about that one.
first one i thought of as well. that's the first one i thought "he's not just an extra weapon/afterthought, you could build an offensive gameplan around him". also, did not know/remember him ruining his life. sucks.
just before my time, but nomination from bama would be ozzie newsome. and, depending on how loose your definition of "end", don hutson. but he's from waaaaaay back, technically and 'end', but more a wr without the name. his records are impressive, though.
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I'd probably say Kyle Pitts as much as that pains me. Bowers now, is in that same mold.
I'm pretty fond of this guy:
(https://i.imgur.com/e2C7fjo.png)
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I'll take the Senior Winslow - wasn't convicted of rape like JR
A native of East St. Louis, Illinois, Kellen Winslow redefined the tight end position at the collegiate and professional levels during his playing career. At MU, he caught 71 passes for 1,089 yards and 10 touchdowns from 1976-78, earning all-Big Eight Conference honors in 1977 and `78, and consensus all-America status as a senior. He went on to play in the East-West Shrine and Senior Bowls. His number 83 at Missouri is retired. He was inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2002 and the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame in 1994.
He was a first-round pick by the San Diego Chargers in the NFL Draft and caught more passes than any tight end in league history from 1979-88. He made five Pro Bowls, was named first-team all-Pro three times, led the NFL in receptions in 1980 and ’81 and was a member of the NFL’s all-decade team of the 1980s, the NFL’s 75th anniversary all-time team, the NFL’s 100th anniversary all-time team and the San Diego Chargers Hall of Fame. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1995. In a 1981–82 playoff game against the Miami Dolphins that became known as The Epic in Miami, Winslow caught a playoff-record 13 passes for 166 yards and a touchdown, while also blocking a field goal with seconds remaining to send the game to overtime in one of the greatest single player efforts in NFL history.
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1978 upset of #2 Nebraska by Missouri in Lincoln
RECEIVING - MU: Winslow 6-132
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When I think of great TE Winslow Sr is still the first name that pops in my head because he was the first great TE I was aware of as a kid (but Newsome was great too). But I was too young to remember his college days. I honestly think Kelce might be the best TE ever, but my measuring stick is still Winslow.
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Kelce is great in the NFL
but, more of a WR than TE
College stats at Cincy weren't awesome, but solid
Winslow Senior went up against some great defenses at the Sooners and Huskers, but he did have James Wilder at RB to take some pressure off
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I honestly think Kelce might be the best TE ever, but my measuring stick is still Winslow.
College only?
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Florida & Georgia both had great TEs named Ben at the same time: Ben Troupe and Ben Watson.
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This doesn't need to be about the best ever, just a guy maybe your team couldn't cover or a guy who sticks in your mind.
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Well George Kittle did play college football before the NFL but I will concede that the George Kittle that played at Iowa was not quite playing at the same level he has achieved in the NFL. Partly due to Kittle being hurt often at Iowa and not being at full speed and strength.
Possibly also due to an offensive scheme that didn't take advantage of what they had.
Looking up his stats, he was getting on average 2 catches per game his Jr and Sr year. If you take his entire NFL career, he's averaging 4.8 catches per game, and we all know that there are typically fewer offensive plays in the NFL game than college, so that's even more skewed.
Assuming he didn't just magically develop into an elite pass catcher when he went to the 49ers, I think you'd have to blame some of his lack of production at Iowa on Captain Kirk.
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I'll blame Brian
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The best one I've seen at UGA is clearly Bowers. Of course, if I had one UGA RB for one game, I'd take Chubb, so I could be wrong.
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Florida & Georgia both had great TEs named Ben at the same time: Ben Troupe and Ben Watson.
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This doesn't need to be about the best ever, just a guy maybe your team couldn't cover or a guy who sticks in your mind.
Texas Tech had a dude named Jace Amaro several years ago that WVU absolutely could not cover. Killed em. That’s why I mentioned Chris Gedney in another post. Same deal.
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The best one I've seen at UGA is clearly Bowers. Of course, if I had one UGA RB for one game, I'd take Chubb, so I could be wrong.
Better than Clarence Kay? He was pretty good too.
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College only?
College only Winslow Jr is my measuring stick. NFL TE his dad is my measuring stick.
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Better than Clarence Kay? He was pretty good too.
IMHO clearly
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college....would it be crazy to say Brock Bowers already? Maybe Kellen Winslow Jr?
NFL....Gronk by a mile. GOAT TE imo.
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Do you know where he went to college?
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I do
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Former NFL tight end Kyle Rudolph told The Athletic earlier this week that he intends to call select Big Ten games for NBC this fall. He will also call the USFL. Despite rumors, Rudolph has yet to announce his retirement from the NFL at age 32.
The former Notre Dame tight end will join the B1G’s new television package with NBC. He called Notre Dame’s spring game earlier this offseason, his first time calling a game.
According to an article by Sports Illustrated, Rudolph has Notre Dame to thank for the opportunity to step into the broadcast booth this fall.
“One hundred percent. (Notre Dame) was without question why,” he said. “I’m an anomaly, played 12 years in the NFL before starting my next chapter, but Notre Dame was still there opening doors and giving me opportunities.”
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Either Matt Spaeth or Maxx Williams.
I may be biased on Spaeth because we graduated in the same HS class, but he was excellent at both blocking and catching, and had a nice career and a Super Bowl ring with the Steelers.
As for Maxx, this is the most ridiculous catch I've ever seen a TE make.
https://youtu.be/oEfn4MLZyJE
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2:20 is pretty good on this one.
Pitts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf0L7tkC5GI&t=183s)
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Possibly also due to an offensive scheme that didn't take advantage of what they had.
Looking up his stats, he was getting on average 2 catches per game his Jr and Sr year. If you take his entire NFL career, he's averaging 4.8 catches per game, and we all know that there are typically fewer offensive plays in the NFL game than college, so that's even more skewed.
Assuming he didn't just magically develop into an elite pass catcher when he went to the 49ers, I think you'd have to blame some of his lack of production at Iowa on Captain Kirk.
George Kittle is a cousin to former star Iowa basketball player, Jess Settles, is a Big Ten Network basketball analyst.
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In my lengthy post on Iowa tight ends, I neglected to say which was best . . . it's close, but I would say T.J. Hockensen, now with the Vikings.
One tight end I left out was Jim Gibbons who caught the only touchdown in a 7-0 win over Ohio State that helped lead Iowa to the 1957 Rose Bowl, and a final AP ranking of #3. Gibbons was a team captain. Gibbons went on to play for the Detroit Lions, and was a pro bowler 4x. But, I never saw him play.
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TEs of course usually get lost in the mix, a team could have an excellent one and rarely feature him, he blocks well, he catches the occasional, and he's actually very good but hardly noticed. I'm hearing UGA is going to feature Bowers more often in the run game this year. He did pretty well last year with some "jet sweeps" etc., the might line him up in the backfield instead of slot or end of the line more, maybe. They are a bit light on RBs.
I think "we" including me can be overly influenced by a handful of great plays and overlook the yoeman work they may do play after play blocking.
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Who are some TEs that may or may not have gotten any All-American love that you recall being really great?
This guy doesn't fall enough under the radar of your criteria, but I always liked Maryland's Vernon Davis (2003-05). A consensus All-American in 2005 followed by a long career in the NFL, mostly with the 49ers to include two Pro-Bowl selections.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2ipT9uH6gc
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(https://scontent.ffod1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/362235239_763079495618307_8582628679264468673_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=_BIXXj7x4IYAX_LIjRX&_nc_ht=scontent.ffod1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDHlzX9g4BMZ3IAyZ6-aqXX3MTQMwI2EFWgOIcyqFrEdQ&oe=64BF519D)