Did you say you have a daughter playing High School baseball or was it softballSoftball
SoftballI assume fast pitch
It was not at all standard in my umpire daysExactly. That’s what I thought too. I’m not a trained umpire but I’ve been forced into duty of some LL games because if someone didn’t do it the kids couldn’t play. What I told the coaches and kids was if the pitch was borderline and I wasn’t sure I was probably going to call it a strike, so be prepared to swing the bat.
every ump has his own view of where the strike zone is so some will give you a little room on the inside or the outside but the goal of umps back in my day was to call strikes that crossed the plate at the knnes up to the mid chest area
Rules are there for a reason and should be followed
I assume fast pitchYeah, in my experience girls rarely give umps any grief and I’ve had other umps say what you said. I think boys see MLB players do it and think it’s just part of the game, or they try to impress their friends by spouting off.
I not only umped the boys up through Jr Teenage but also called a lot of girls softball
I really enjoyed umping for the girls teams
They played hard and never gave the ump a bad time
They were all business and it was a refreshing change from the boys
This is a MLB umpire.Id say that ump has an expanded strike zone
In the NLCS.
For real.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3eK5gCChM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR3eK5gCChM)
Yeah, in my experience girls rarely give umps any grief and I’ve had other umps say what you said. I think boys see MLB players do it and think it’s just part of the game, or they try to impress their friends by spouting off.yep and it was always yes sir and no sir
A couple years ago we went to my nephew’s travel league game. Some kid on his team got hit by a pitch, slammed his bat down, and glared at the pitcher all the way down the first base line. I wanted to scream at him to get his ass to first and quit trying to look so tough. I just wasn’t used to seeing that because I watch so much softball.
When a girl gets hit by a pitch she just wears it and sprints to first. It also isn’t all that unusual for the pitcher to go to the kid she hit, give her five, and apologize.
Id say that ump has an expanded strike zonehe was behind the plate for Greg Maddux
where was he when I was pitching lol
he was behind the plate for Greg Madduxyep well it appears hes reached his level of incompetence
I did LL boys and Fast pitch girls (youth level, 0-3 years of experience) what is that 9-13 years old? (I did this while age 16-22)I was umping a game once and a girl hit the ball and flung the bat directly into my face mask. If it would have been 3 inches lower it would have shattered my collarbone because the chest protector I had on didn’t really fit me. I stopped the game and gave her a stern talking to but didn’t toss her.
I will openly admit to the following regarding strike zones, and I made this clear to the coaches before the game. (the league wanted to encourage kids to swing and to try and avoid endless walk parades). I really liked that bias.
My strike zone got big, as in wide, and definitely high strike particularly if we had two kids who simply were struggling to throw strikes. More often than not, one of the two teams had a kid that could pitch and she would either dominate or more or less throw strikes all game. I never pinched the zone. If a girl (and usually this only happened in fast pitch, not LL) was a high quality pitcher, I wouldn't give her strikes off the plate, but I would never pinch a kid's zone. The few times, I filled in or worked with my older brother doing high school level, if I ever did the plate, I never pinched a zone, but I did call the high strike, but wouldn't give it wide the way I would at younger levels.
I would also call kids out that threw the bat. I made this abundantly clear before the game to the coaches and the kids. 'We all know you can't throw the bat. this is the warning. you will be called out if you throw the bat when leaving the batter's box.'
I think there are a couple of guys who mentioned they either umpire or used to umpire so I wanted to get some feedback.Strike zones are always going to vary by umpire. My strike zone, as a very tall man who has to be in a full crouch to get to the right height, might shade a little higher than shorter umps, but I always do my damndest to have the same strike zone all day. I don't like it when other umpire not only pinch a pitcher, but brag about it. I tend to shade towards more strike zone, not less. Especially if the pitchers are struggling. I've unintentionally pinched the zone plenty, and so has any other umpire who's been behind the plate. There are always going to be a few pitches in a game that you like a lot less than others. But when that happens, my next thought is something to the effect of "Damn! That was a strike, and I passed! Throw that one again and I won't make that mistake!"
In the last month or so I’ve had the opportunity to talk to two different youth league umpires on two different occasions who do baseball and softball games. Youth league means ranging from little league to high school.
Anyway, both guys openly admitted (and defended) not calling strikes on pitches that were strikes. The first guy said he doesn’t call the high strike. If it’s above the belly button he just doesn’t call it. When I asked him why he said he feels it’s a tough pitch for younger hitters to hit and lay off of. He said he offsets that by usually calling pitches strikes that may be just below the knees.
The second guy said he doesn’t call the inside strike. To be more precise, he’ll call it but only if the entire ball crosses over the white portion of the plate. If a portion of the ball knicks the corner he won’t call it. His reasoning was that pitch is almost impossible to hit without jamming a kid up. He said, “these kids aren’t major leaguers. They can’t handle that pitch.”
I’ve always known umpires had different strike zones but I guess I always thought it was something they weren’t consciously aware of. These guys are openly admitting there are pitches they know are strikes but won’t call.
My daughter starts high school in the fall and will probably be her school’s number 1 pitcher. Through little league and middle school she was a pretty dominant pitcher against the relatively weak competition she faced. On a couple different occasions I’ve had umpires come up to me after games to compliment her on her pitching and add good naturedly “I was pinching her a little. They didn’t have a chance against her and calling the corners just seemed unfair.”
How standard is this among umps?
Strike zones are always going to vary by umpire. My strike zone, as a very tall man who has to be in a full crouch to get to the right height, might shade a little higher than shorter umps, but I always do my damndest to have the same strike zone all day. I don't like it when other umpire not only pinch a pitcher, but brag about it. I tend to shade towards more strike zone, not less. Especially if the pitchers are struggling. I've unintentionally pinched the zone plenty, and so has any other umpire who's been behind the plate. There are always going to be a few pitches in a game that you like a lot less than others. But when that happens, my next thought is something to the effect of "Damn! That was a strike, and I passed! Throw that one again and I won't make that mistake!"Yes, I agree with everything you said. It’s one thing to miss a pitch or have a bias one way or the other for borderline pitches. It’s quite another to just out and out admit you knowingly will call a rule book strike a ball because you feel it’s the right thing to do.
The nicest thing I can say about umpire #1 is that he must be thinking of the NCAA definition of the strike zone height. NCAA is bottom of the sternum, whereas all other codes define the top of the strike zone as the armpit.
As for the second umpire, WTF? That inside corner pitch is an essential part of the strike zone.
The strike zone on the outside corner is a lot further out than many also think it is, and that's the toughest pitch to call consistently. Hittability has nothing to do with strikes. I called several such outside pitches a strike in my state tourney semifinal despite the catcher setting up in the LHB batters box. If we're going for hittability, a batter earlier in the day hammered that exact same pitch onto the slowpitch warning track, ~265 feet from home plate.
with runner on first and 2nd and less then 2 outs its an infield fly situationThat is what everyone on the field thought except that umpire (IFFR).
My experience with infield fly isn’t that it’s called incorrectly but people misinterpret that the play is dead and runners can’t advance if the ball is dropped. I’ve seen a couple of parents throw fits because they didn’t know the rule.if I was a coach Id ask my players to drop the ball on purpose when a IFF is called just to see if any runner started to run
if I was a coach Id ask my players to drop the ball on purpose when a IFF is called just to see if any runner started to runSuch a situation in both baseball and softball results in an immediate dead ball, the batter is out, and runners return to the bases last occupied at the time of the pitch.
course is they do they would have to be tagged
Since we’re in this thread I have another question from something that happened in one of my daughter’s games last year. We were playing a game with only one ump.I'm not sure what the procedure is, either. Essentially, it revolves to how receptive said umpire is to a discussion.
We were in the last inning of a tight game with runners on 2nd and 3rd. Our batter laid a bunt down and our runner on third got caught in a rundown. The catcher threw it into left field and our runner came into score. The ump calls her safe, she runs into the dugout, and our next batter is coming up to the plate.
The opposing coach comes out of the dugout and proceeds to have a lengthy conversation with the umpire. After a few minutes the ump calls our runner who scored out for running outside the base path.
What is the protocol for appealing a call when there is only one umpire? I would think if he were going to call that he could have (or should have) called it as it occurred. The way it appeared was the coach talked him into the call.
That one has always bugged me. It killed our rally and we went on to lose the game in the bottom half the inning. My wife, who was an assistant, got tossed for arguing the call. That was actually the best part. I still give her crap for getting ran.
Such a situation in both baseball and softball results in an immediate dead ball, the batter is out, and runners return to the bases last occupied at the time of the pitch.I guess we would just have to make it look like an accident
https://collegesoftballumpires.org/infield-fly-and-intentional-drop-rules/
https://baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/mlb-umpire-manual/infielder-intentionally-drops-fly-ball-or-line-drive/
All this talk about the rules reminds me of this scene from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
https://youtu.be/v010HXpfFSA
My experience with infield fly isn’t that it’s called incorrectly but people misinterpret that the play is dead and runners can’t advance if the ball is dropped. I’ve seen a couple of parents throw fits because they didn’t know the rule.I thought the rule was "advance at your own risk" ...
My experience with infield fly isn’t that it’s called incorrectly but people misinterpret that the play is dead and runners can’t advance if the ball is dropped. I’ve seen a couple of parents throw fits because they didn’t know the rule.Thats only if the umps think you dropped it on purpose otherwise the ball is live and the runners are free to sta where they are or run to the next base but there is no force
Since we’re in this thread I have another question from something that happened in one of my daughter’s games last year. We were playing a game with only one ump.Appeals are really no different when then is one umpire vs two umpires. I am surprised that an Umpire would overturn that type of call on appeal, I would think he would have observed the runner out of the baseline during the play and called her out at that time.
We were in the last inning of a tight game with runners on 2nd and 3rd. Our batter laid a bunt down and our runner on third got caught in a rundown. The catcher threw it into left field and our runner came into score. The ump calls her safe, she runs into the dugout, and our next batter is coming up to the plate.
The opposing coach comes out of the dugout and proceeds to have a lengthy conversation with the umpire. After a few minutes the ump calls our runner who scored out for running outside the base path.
What is the protocol for appealing a call when there is only one umpire? I would think if he were going to call that he could have (or should have) called it as it occurred. The way it appeared was the coach talked him into the call.
That one has always bugged me. It killed our rally and we went on to lose the game in the bottom half the inning. My wife, who was an assistant, got tossed for arguing the call. That was actually the best part. I still give her crap for getting ran.
Thats only if the umps think you dropped it on purpose otherwise the ball is live and the runners are free to sta where they are or run to the next base but there is no forceIt should be called while the ball is in the air, dropping it on purpose has zero effect on the call.
I'm not sure what the procedure is, either. Essentially, it revolves to how receptive said umpire is to a discussion.Are you sure it was base path and not missing the 3rd base bag?
Base paths don't mean anything if the runner isn't being played upon by a fielder with the ball. Rundowns are hard to cover, because there are so many things that can go haywire, any one of which could send the players or managers totally off their handle.
It should be called while the ball is in the air, dropping it on purpose has zero effect on the call.you are wrong
A thing I didn't know, if I got this right, is the rule about a single but fast runner on first and a slow batter who hits a pop up to the infield. If dropped intentionally, it's called out. If I understand correctly.I actually saw this exact play in an astro game when Altuve intentially dropped the ball and threw to 2nd for the out and the umps didnt do anything so Im saying if no infield fly situation exists the the ball is live for interntially dropped balls
A thing I didn't know, if I got this right, is the rule about a single but fast runner on first and a slow batter who hits a pop up to the infield. If dropped intentionally, it's called out. If I understand correctly.You read it right. Not only is the batter out, the ball is dead and the runner goes back to first.
Appeals are really no different when then is one umpire vs two umpires. I am surprised that an Umpire would overturn that type of call on appeal, I would think he would have observed the runner out of the baseline during the play and called her out at that time.That’s always what bugged me too. If he saw her go outside the baseline he had the chance to make that call and he didn’t. In essence, it seemed like the opposing coach became the second umpire, consulted with him, and overturned the call.
When I was forced to work a game by myself because my partner didn't show up, I would always tell the coaches, I didn't want to hear anything about a close play at out in the field. The only complaint I want to hear is if I wasn't hustling to try to get into position to make the call. Working a higher level game by yourself is not fun.
That’s always what bugged me too. If he saw her go outside the baseline he had the chance to make that call and he didn’t. In essence, it seemed like the opposing coach became the second umpire, consulted with him, and overturned the call.seems like a conflict of interest if the opposing coach had some supervisory duty over the ump
Fun fact, we found out a few days later the opposing coach’s husband was the District Director (or whatever his title was) of the umpires in that area. They were well known and heavily involved in the baseball/softball scene in that area. The dude who was umping couldn’t have been more than 22 or 23 either. He was young and probably more prone to be influenced. We felt like we got “hometowned” in that one.
seems like a conflict of interest if the opposing coach had some supervisory duty over the umpIt definitely is but in small town America that’s kinda hard to avoid sometimes I guess. It was just a regular season middle school game, too. We weren’t really playing for anything.
and as weve said the umps blew the callI disagree. The play is only dead if the ump determines the ball was intentionally dropped. In the case of that Giants play I don’t think it was and apparently the ump didn’t either. The runners are allowed to advance at their own risk and any force plays are off. I think that was called correctly.
if its an infield fly that is allowed to drop to the ground the ball is dead the batter is out and all runners go back to their original base
the run should not have counted
I disagree. The play is only dead if the ump determines the ball was intentionally dropped. In the case of that Giants play I don’t think it was and apparently the ump didn’t either. The runners are allowed to advance at their own risk and any force plays are off. I think that was called correctly.you might be right but it goes against the rule posted above but the rules posted above may not be MLB rules
The Official Rules of Baseball (OBR) are what MLB uses.the ball was not caught so no tag needed
And as for that clip from the Giants-Expos game, what the fielders should have done was throw back to 3rd and appeal the runner never tagging up.
The best part is Robinson scolding his players."Theres no crying in baseball!"
In my long years involved with youth sports, I’ve had the experience many others have had: parents are the weak link. But the growing, well documented abuse of officials has gone too far, and the repercussions are tangible: For example, New Jersey is having trouble finding soccer officials at all levels.
Deptford Little League has come up with a plan: You wanna berate the umps? Then you’re gonna ump yourself. As reported in the May 21, 2023 Philadelphia Inquirer, “Fed up with parents cursing umpires, two of whom quit in April, Deptford Little League president Don Bozzuffi made international news last month by instituting a novel punishment: Unruly parents will be banned from attending games unless they umpire three contests themselves.”
I love it.
Take these jerks out of the bleachers and hand them the umpire jersey.
https://whenfallsthecoliseum.com/2023/07/12/one-two-three-strikes-youre-in/I like it