CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: 847badgerfan on June 17, 2023, 01:07:08 PM
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Been thinking about this for a while now. Thought it might be fun to examine what things might look like if all the conferences were erased, and who might land where.
Factors might include rivalries, geography, traditions, academics, football, basketball, Olympic sports, money, etc.
For this exercise, assume 4 conferences of 12 schools each. Who is in, and who is out?
Or maybe 5 conferences with 11 schools each. Maybe do both.
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I'm going to do 5 conferences with 11 schools.
1 school per state, academics, geography, football, basketball and tradition. This is not going to be easy at all.
Right now, we have 3 states with two schools. 1 of those states has TWO charter members of what once was the Big 10.
Illinois, NU
Purdue, IU (PU charter)
Michigan, MSU (UM charter*)
* Left for independence for 10 years
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5 with 10
9-game schedule
no cornsideration for $$$
then 4 with 12, two divisions - conf champ game decides the 4 champs for the playoff
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5 at 11. 55 schools.
10 game season, 3 OOC for all. No CCG needed.
The charters are in, I've declared, sans Illinois and Chicago. NU is the choice to rep Illinois.
So, we have, to start:
Michigan
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue
Wisconsin
Need 6 more.
Iowa
Nebraska
Ohio State
Penn State
Iowa and Ohio State are no-brainers due to traditions and rivalries, not to mention academics.
The other two, I don't know. Seems like PSU is still trying to fit in, 30+ years later. UNL has floundered for 10 years.
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Ohio St.
Michigan
Michigan St.
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesoota
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana
Purdue
_________
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma St.
K-State
Colorado
Iowa St.
Mizzou
Arkansas
_________
Alabama
Georgia
Auburn
LSU
Tennessee
Florida
Florida St.
Mississippi St.
Ole Miss
Miami
__________
Kentucky
Penn St.
Pitt
Clemson
North Carolina
South Carolina
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Maryland
__________
USC
UCLA
Cal
Oregon
Washington
Arizona
Arizona St.
Stanford
BYU
Wash St. or Oregon St.(coin flip)
__________
5 conference champs
worst ranked is left out of the 4-team playoff
Sorry, not sorry
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5 at 11. 55 schools.
10 game season, 3 OOC for all. No CCG needed.
I like it - the BEST
_____________
Ohio St.
Michigan
Michigan St.
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesoota
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana
Purdue
Northwestern
_________
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
K-State
Colorado
Iowa St.
Mizzou
Arkansas
_________
Alabama
Georgia
Auburn
LSU
Tennessee
Florida
Florida St.
Mississippi St.
Ole Miss
Kentucky
Miami
__________
Penn St.
Pitt
Clemson
North Carolina
South Carolina
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Syracuse
Boston College
__________
USC
UCLA
Cal
Oregon
Washington
Arizona
Arizona St.
Stanford
BYU
Wash St.
Oregon St.
__________
5 conference champs
worst ranked is left out of the 4-team playoff
Sorry, not sorry
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4 with 12, two divisions - conf champ game decides the 4 champs for the playoff
Ohio St.
Michigan
Michigan St.
Notre Dame
Wisconsin
Minnesoota
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana
Purdue
Nebraska
Oklahoma
____________
Alabama
Georgia
Auburn
LSU
Tennessee
Florida
Florida St.
Ole Miss
Miami
Mizzou
Kentucky
Arkansas
__________
Penn St.
Pitt
Clemson
North Carolina
North Carolina St.
South Carolina
West Virginia
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Maryland
Syracuse
Boston College
__________
Texas
Texas A&M
Colorado
USC
UCLA
Cal
Oregon
Washington
Arizona
Arizona St.
Stanford
BYU
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San Diego State:
Ummmmm, we're breaking up with you.
But like....not yet.
When we break up, can you like, not charge us full price? That'd be great.
Oh and could we like maybe pay it off over time? That lowered price is still a lot, ya know?
Thanks, babe! Love ya!
.
MWC:
Uhhh......no.
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P-1
Bama, LSU, Georgia, Flor, Tenn, Tex, Ok, Clem, ND, Mich,, Ohio St, PSU, USC, Wash, Ore
B-2
UNC, Va, Duke, UConn, Cuse,, MD, ky, Lou, Mem, Cincy, Mich St,, Ind, Kan, UCLA, Ariz
MP-3
Flor St, Miami, Aub, VT, TCU, Tex A&M, OkSt, Col, Utah, Stan, Wisc, Neb, Iowa, Ark, BYU
LP-4
Minn, ILL, Mizzou, Purdue, IowaSt, Pitt, WV, NCSU, S.Car, GT, ArizSt, Cal, Hou, Ole Miss, UCF, USF
W-5
Wash St, Ore St, SDSU, FresSt, Haw, Boise,, UNLV, Col St, NM, USU, KanSt, TT
MG-7
NW, Vandy, Wake, BC, Rut, Temple, Rice, Bay, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, AFA, Navy, Army, Liberty
T-8
UTEP, NMSU, SJSU, Wy,, UTSA, NT, TexSt, LT, LM, LL, ArkSt, MissSt, USM, USA, Troy
E-9
GaSt, GaSou, FIU, FAU,, AppSt, ECU, Cha, CC, JM, ODU, Mar, WKU, MTSU
MAC-same
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Michigan, MSU (UM charter*)
* Left for independence for 10 years
LoL, we've been posting together for a long time.
As I read this I wondered if you added the * mostly because you KNEW that if you didn't, I would point it out.
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Every time we go through an exercise like this it makes me wonder how things would have worked out if JoPa had gotten the "Eastern all sports conference" that he wanted back in the 1980's.
The BigEast famously (perhaps infamously) turned him down so he looked West, joined the BigTen (to form the Big11Ten). That single decision has had an impact on basically all the realignment moves that happened since.
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LoL, we've been posting together for a long time.
As I read this I wondered if you added the * mostly because you KNEW that if you didn't, I would point it out.
:57:
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Every time we go through an exercise like this it makes me wonder how things would have worked out if JoPa had gotten the "Eastern all sports conference" that he wanted back in the 1980's.
The BigEast famously (perhaps infamously) turned him down so he looked West, joined the BigTen (to form the Big11Ten). That single decision has had an impact on basically all the realignment moves that happened since.
Seems like that decision was solely based on basketball. The Big East exists. The football schools had to scramble. It may have turned out the same way, but maybe not.
JoePa Conference c. 1981
Penn State (I)
Florida State (I)
Miami (I)
Pitt (I)
West Virginia (I)
Virginia Tech (I)
Rutgers (I)
USCe (I)
BC (BE)
Syracuse (BE)
UConn (BE)? Temple (I)? Do you want them? Do you need them? Probably not.
Would Maryland (ACC) have jumped? Maybe.
Georgia Tech (ACC)? Probably not.
But even without BC and Cuse, those 8 independents would have made a solid conference that would probably exist today.
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Sticking to a 4x12....
I like the idea of picking teams like a tournament. So picking 4 geographic top seeds, then placing another with each as a 2, and so on.
So I'll start with something like USC, OU, Bama, and OSU are the "top seeds" and the epicenters of each conference.
*One thing I'm doing here is considering "historical" success as like the past 50 years. Pre-WWII isn't pertinent to the discussion, imo. Pre-passing game, pre-integration, pre-two platoon....no. Don't care.
So that means ND, Texas, and USC aren't top 5 programs. They're top 10, but not the obvious helmets many here would label them as.
USC.....then I add UCLA. Not because they're historically great or anything, but because they're close and we know there's going to be 48 teams when we're through, and UCLA will obviously be in those 48. So we just add them now.
OU we add Texas, obviously. Close, rival, history, etc. They pair up naturally.
With Bama, we add Auburn, similar to the UCLA reason.
With OSU, we add UM, of course.
Next, we'll add in Stanford, A&M, Georgia, and ND.
Cal, Nebraska, Florida, Penn St
Oregon, LSU, Florida St, Pitt
Washington, Arkansas, Miami, Wisconsin
Utah, Colorado, Clemson, Iowa
Arizona St, OK State, Tennessee, Michigan St
Arizona, Kansas St, Ole Miss, Syracuse
BYU, Kansas, Kentucky, Minnesota
Wash St, Mizzou, North Carolina, Purdue
Oregon St, SMU, Virginia, Illinois
.
So we definitely have some "drops" from existing conferences, but 48 is 48.
West: USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Oregon, Warshington, Utah, ASU, Arizona, BYU, Wash St, Oregon St.
Central: OU, Texas, Texas A&M, Nebraska, LSU, Arkansas, Colorado, OK State, K-State, KU, Mizzou, SMU
Southeast: Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, FSU, Miami, Clemson, Tennessee, Ole Miss, Kentucky, UNC, Virginia
Midwest: Ohio St, Michigan, ND, Penn St, Pitt, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan St, Syracuse, Minnesota, Purdue, Illinois
.
I think I weighed basketball/market/history > academics here.
Some really good programs left without a home: VT, BC, Maryland, TCU, Texas Tech, Louisville, Cincinnati, NC State, South Carolina, etc.
The West is basically the PAC-12.
The Central is the original Big XII with LSU.
The Southeast is an SEC+ACC power conference.
The Midwest is the Big Ten + ND.
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Seems like that decision was solely based on basketball. The Big East exists. The football schools had to scramble. It may have turned out the same way, but maybe not.
JoePa Conference c. 1981
Penn State (I)
Florida State (I)
Miami (I)
Pitt (I)
West Virginia (I)
Virginia Tech (I)
Rutgers (I)
USCe (I)
BC (BE)
Syracuse (BE)
UConn (BE)? Temple (I)? Do you want them? Do you need them? Probably not.
Would Maryland (ACC) have jumped? Maybe.
Georgia Tech (ACC)? Probably not.
But even without BC and Cuse, those 8 independents would have made a solid conference that would probably exist today.
For perspective at the time, here are those schools most frequent opponents from WWII to 1980 (1946-1980 football seasons):
Penn State:
- 35 Pitt
- 35 Cuse
- 34 WVU
- 22 Army
- 20 Maryland
- 15 Navy
- 13 NCST
- 12 Temple
- 9 Boston College, Holy Cross, Rutgers
Florida State:
- 25 VaTech
- 23 Florida
- 22 Miami, Fl
- 16 Houston
- 13 Southern Mississippi
- 12 Memphis
- 11 Auburn
- 10 Wake
- 10 NCST
- 9 USCe, MsSt, UGA
Miami, FL:
- 35 Florida
- 24 Florida State
- 16 Pitt
- 14 Bama
- 14 Notre Dame
- 12 Tulane
- 12 Houston
- 10 Boston College, LSU, Maryland
Pitt:
- 35 WVU
- 35 PSU
- 31 Notre Dame
- 26 Cuse
- 21 Navy
- 20 Army
- 16 Miami, FL
- 14 UCLA
- 10 Boston College, Dook
WVU:
- 35 Pitt
- 34 Penn State
- 27 Cuse
- 24 Richmond
- 22 VaTech
- 16 William and Mary
- 16 George Washington
- 14 Maryland
- 13 Virginia
- 12 Kentucky, Temple
VaTech:
- 35 William and Mary
- 34 VMI
- 32 UVA
- 28 Richmond
- 25 Florida State
- 24 Wake
- 22 WVU
- 15 George Washington
- 13 NCST
- 10 Kentucky
Rutgers:
- 34 Princeton
- 30 Colgate
- 30 Leigh
- 30 Lafayette
- 27 Columbia
- 18 UCONN
- 16 Delaware
- 13 Bucknell
- 10 Holy Cross, Temple
USCe:
- 35 Wake
- 35 Clemson
- 30 Dook
- 24 NCST
- 23 Maryland
- 20 Virginia
- 20 Georgia
- 15 Furman
- 11 Citadel, GaTech
Boston College:
- 34 Holy Cross
- 34 Villanova
- 19 Cuse
- 16 Navy
- 15 UMASS
- 14 Army
- 14 Detroit Mercy
- 10 Tulane, MiamiFL, Pitt
Syracuse:
- 35 PSU
- 27 WVU
- 26 Pitt
- 24 Holy Cross
- 19 Boston College
- 18 Maryland
- 18 Navy
- 16 Colgate
- 14 Boston
- 12 Temple
Another notable within this discussion:
Notre Dame:
- 35 Navy
- 35 USC
- 35 Purdue
- 31 Pitt
- 31 Michigan State
- 20 Iowa
- 18 Northwestern
- 16 North Carolina
- 14 Miami, FL
- 13 GaTech
My thinking is that Notre Dame would have been interested in an Eastern League. An Eastern League of something like:
- Penn State
- Notre Dame
- Miami, FL
- Florida State
- Syracuse
- Boston College
- South Carolina
- Rutgers
- VaTech
- West Virginia
- Pittsburgh
- Navy
That is a strong league both financially and competitively. I'm not sure that it would be as strong as the SEC (now without USCe) or the B1G (now without PSU, RU, and probably also UMD) but I think it would at least be strong enough to stay in range.
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(https://i.imgur.com/iCwj6hN.png)
I think ND would be interested in that. The only thing I'd change is probably trying to land one of Maryland or Georgia Tech rather than add Navy. And maybe can Rutgers if you could both of those ACC schools.
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(https://i.imgur.com/iCwj6hN.png)
I think ND would be interested in that. The only thing I'd change is probably trying to land one of Maryland or Georgia Tech rather than add Navy. And maybe can Rutgers if you could both of those ACC schools.
I get where you are coming from but I wonder if Navy would actually be better for ratings than Maryland/GaTech? There are a lot of guys who served in the Navy and you also get to visit Annapolis and have them on your campus regularly. Plus, they are a frequent ND opponent.
From ND's perspective at the time, this league would include their two of their top-4 most frequent opponents from WWII to 1980 (Navy and Pitt). They could probably afford to keep the USC rivalry and this league would also keep #9 MiamiFL. Then they'd only lose Purdue, MSU, Iowa (which was already over by then), NU (same), UNC, and GaTech.
N-S organization of teams:
- Syracuse
- Boston College
- Rutgers
- Penn State
- Notre Dame
- Pittsburgh
- Navy
- West Virginia
- VaTech
- South Carolina
- Florida State
- Miami, FL
Travel costs for non-revenue sports are reasonable as the conference and especially the divisions (1-6 as the N, 7-12 as the S) are not overly large geographically.
Swapping out Navy for Maryland doesn't change much. Swapping out Rutgers for GaTech moves Navy to the N and makes travel in the S easier since it is between USCe and the Florida Schools.
I think GaTech makes a lot more sense today than it would have in 1980. In 1980 Florida still had less people than Ohio and Georgia was ranked #13 with just 5.5M people. Also, Atlanta was only the 29th most populous city with just 425k.
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The city of Atlanta has not grown all that much since 1980, it's around half a million today.
The problem with Tech, bias aside, is they have so many "students" who don't care a whit about sports. The second problem is they have a poor football program in a football crazy region of the country and Big Brother is 70 miles away, so you don't attract many eyeballs. Their stadium is an erector set dump. Now, maybe relative to Navy they would compare well, but I'd probably consider Syracuse ahead of Tech.
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P-1
Bama, LSU, Georgia, Flor, Tenn, Tex, Ok, Clem, ND, Mich,, Ohio St, PSU, USC, Wash, Ore
B-2
UNC, Va, Duke, UConn, Cuse,, MD, ky, Lou, Mem, Cincy, Mich St,, Ind, Kan, UCLA, Ariz
MP-3
Flor St, Miami, Aub, VT, TCU, Tex A&M, OkSt, Col, Utah, Stan, Wisc, Neb, Iowa, Ark, BYU
LP-4
Minn, ILL, Mizzou, Purdue, IowaSt, Pitt, WV, NCSU, S.Car, GT, ArizSt, Cal, Hou, Ole Miss, UCF, USF
W-5
Wash St, Ore St, SDSU, FresSt, Haw, Boise,, UNLV, Col St, NM, USU, KanSt, TT
MG-7
NW, Vandy, Wake, BC, Rut, Temple, Rice, Bay, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane, AFA, Navy, Army, Liberty
T-8
UTEP, NMSU, SJSU, Wy,, UTSA, NT, TexSt, LT, LM, LL, ArkSt, MissSt, USM, USA, Troy
E-9
GaSt, GaSou, FIU, FAU,, AppSt, ECU, Cha, CC, JM, ODU, Mar, WKU, MTSU
MAC-same
this looks like a soccer-type promotion/relegation system, which i always think is so much fun to tinker with.
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this looks like a soccer-type promotion/relegation system, which i always think is so much fun to tinker with.
Could be, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
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Could be, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
no chance in hell it happens, but it's fun to think about.
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Could be, but I don't think that's gonna happen.
The P1 conference is coming. It might not happen until the 2040's but it's coming.
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The P1 conference is coming. It might not happen until the 2040's but it's coming.
I agree.
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The two college football topics that won’t die - playoff expansion and conference realignment. Saw this a few days ago:
https://twitter.com/Sidelines_SN/status/1670866170180665367
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The Big Ten should trademark BFC as a logo ASAP.
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That map is icky.
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Well we all know who threw geography out the window...
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The two college football topics that won’t die - playoff expansion and conference realignment. Saw this a few days ago:
https://twitter.com/Sidelines_SN/status/1670866170180665367
Slight detour, but I wonder if this could still be our future. Probably not with Cal/Stanford going to the ACC.
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68 seems like a good number
72 seems better
I'm sure the SEC could find 4 more that would be willing
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They have UNLV on that map, but not Notre Dame.
It's silly.