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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on July 28, 2022, 12:40:40 PM

Title: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: ELA on July 28, 2022, 12:40:40 PM
The resumes:

2013 Alabama (11-2)


2015 Ohio State (12-1)
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: Abba on July 28, 2022, 12:56:44 PM
2015 Ohio State was crazy talented.  They just puckered in a tight game in bad weather.  Urban couldn't stop running the QB.  Assuming this game were played in a bowl setting, the Buckeyes would probably look about like they did in the 2014 playoffs.  
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 28, 2022, 01:02:17 PM
I'm not sure about this one. The 2015 Buckeyes were loaded. However, if I remember correctly, Tom Herman had left for the job in Houston. I firmly believe that the 2014 team looked good in the post season because Herman ran the offense and played to Cordell Jones strength. If the 2015 offense was run by Herman with Jones at QB, I would take tOSU in a heartbeat. 

But with JT running the ball every other play, the Bama defense is to talented to let them march up and down the field. They would load up the box and dare JT to throw the ball down field. I'm going to have to go with Bama on this one as Tom Herman was already in Houston.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: Cincydawg on July 28, 2022, 01:03:15 PM
This one is about as close as any of them I think.  Toss up, I voted OSU.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: FearlessF on July 28, 2022, 01:06:59 PM
me too 

the Sooners weren't that good
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 28, 2022, 02:18:31 PM
Agree with @NorthernOhioBuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=40) on most of what he says. 2015 tOSU with Herman/Jones easily but that isn't historically accurate. 2015 tOSU with JT running way too frequently only managed 14 points on MSU. Bama-13 probably had a better D than MSU-15, but bowl weather wouldn't have been as bad as the MSU game so that might be a wash. 14 points isn't enough to beat Bama-13 so the tOSU-15 offense would need more than that. Close call.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: bayareabadger on July 28, 2022, 03:11:45 PM
I took Bama. That seemed like a more together team. 

The Zeke hospital thing was an issue in that loss and the Jones work ethic thing created that QB instability.

Left me with the feel OSU was less trustworthy in the meat of that season. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on July 28, 2022, 05:42:36 PM
A lot of harping on a QB that averaged 5.9 ypc.  OSU fans are irrational when it comes to Barrett.  Over and over.  At every opportunity.

I took Bama....these are very similar teams....run-first, with a very healthy ypc, great WRs, but none in their breakout years - they both spread the ball around.....both had great defenses.  
One advantage Bama has is Cyrus Jones as a return man and their punter absolutely booting it at 47 yds per kick.  

Or maybe Saban just out-schemes Meyer, since Meyer left Florida for being scared at facing Saban, right?  Pfffft.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: ELA on July 28, 2022, 06:59:39 PM
I don't get why OSU fans are so down on Barrett
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: Abba on July 28, 2022, 07:43:28 PM
I think 3 games stick in my mind with regards to JT.  

1) 2015 MSU obviously.  
2) 2016 vs. Clemson, 31-0.  OSU should never be shut out.
3) 2017 vs. Oklahoma 31-16.  Again the offense looked pathetic and was shortly after the Clemson game.

I won't add Iowa, because despite 4 INTs, I don't blame JT as much.  The defense was awful that day, so it wouldn't have mattered.

He was mostly a good to even great college QB, but the lows against these good teams were pretty rough.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: bayareabadger on July 28, 2022, 09:06:56 PM
I don't get why OSU fans are so down on Barrett
I hope we don't get too deep with this. I think we've done that more than arguing the merits of Harbaugh vs Urban. And that was like an every other week thing.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: bayareabadger on July 28, 2022, 09:16:03 PM
I think 3 games stick in my mind with regards to JT. 
It's weird to say this makes me sad in a way, but it kind of does.

Not that I think of him as a world beater, but that someone would think of all of those three ahead of MSU in 2014 (and some of his other games), just feels very glass half empty. You play 44 games. Six are losses, and half are the standouts. 

It perhaps speaks to something that in this effort where players sacrifice their bodies for our joy, we are designed in some ways to dwell on the times they did not bring us joy. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: ELA on July 28, 2022, 10:04:54 PM
Of that three year run, 2013-2015, the best was the 2014 MSU team.  They went 11-2, with the two losses being to the NC participants, and it was basically a one man QB show in both.  JT Barrett and Marcus Mariota were all that was between MSU and a national title, even though 2013 and 2015 technically came closer.  Those were worse teams
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: 847badgerfan on July 29, 2022, 06:58:33 AM
OSU by a little.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: NorthernOhioBuckeye on July 29, 2022, 08:50:11 AM
I don't get why OSU fans are so down on Barrett
It is not necessarily Barrett that makes me feel this way. If you noticed, I mentioned Tom Herman in my post.

As to the offenses failings with Barrett, it was more about Urban and his insistance to turn to Barrett every time they got into a tight game. Sure, Barrett made a lot of nice plays, but when faced with a very good defense that loaded up the box, Urban and very few good answers. He would just keep pounding Barrett hoping that he would find a crease and break a big play. 

Herman understood that you can't keep running into a wall and be successful all of the time. With a QB that could throw the ball down the field with some competance, he could force the defense to defend the entire field, not just the 5 yards past the LOS. Unfortunately, Barrett was not a reliable down field passer. Sure he had some good even great games throwing the ball, but when he was off, he was way off and a defense could just load up the box and dare Barrett to beat them down field. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: FearlessF on July 29, 2022, 10:09:28 AM
As to the offenses failings with Barrett, it was more about Urban and his insistance to turn to Barrett every time they got into a tight game. Sure, Barrett made a lot of nice plays, but when faced with a very good defense that loaded up the box, Urban and very few good answers. He would just keep pounding Barrett hoping that he would find a crease and break a big play.

sounds like Frost running Martinez the past 3 seasons
and Martinez fumbled - ALOT
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: utee94 on July 29, 2022, 10:10:32 AM
I feel like Martinez was at Nebraska for about ten years.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2022, 10:17:37 AM
I don't get why OSU fans are so down on Barrett
It's weird to say this makes me sad in a way, but it kind of does.

Not that I think of him as a world beater, but that someone would think of all of those three ahead of MSU in 2014 (and some of his other games), just feels very glass half empty. You play 44 games. Six are losses, and half are the standouts.

It perhaps speaks to something that in this effort where players sacrifice their bodies for our joy, we are designed in some ways to dwell on the times they did not bring us joy.
As @NorthernOhioBuckeye (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=40) said, it wasn't JT, it was more a play calling complaint and JT just got caught up in it.

It also extends beyond Barrettes tenure. A couple years earlier in the only B1GCG I've attended the Buckeyes two leading rushers were:
The Buckeyes lost that game by 10 but I would argue that the game was closer than that:


It was an odd game in that it never really "felt" close. Instead the teams took turns looking dominant:
Anyway, the playcall that still bothers me occurred with just over five minutes left in the game and MSU clinging to a 27-24 lead. The Buckeyes got the ball in great field position thanks to a nice defensive stand and a shanked (19 yard) punt. From the MSU-47:
Going for it was an easy call. The 4th down play was at the MSU-39 so it would have been a 56 yard FG from there and punting might pin MSU deep but it is just as likely to result in a 19 yard net.

My objection was calling Braxton Miller on three out of four rushes when Carlos Hyde was available. I realize (see above) that Miller had a slightly higher average but he was more feast-or-famine. Note that his long was 48 yards. Hyde was more consistent and a first down here puts tOSU at least on the fringes of FG range for a tie.

Braxton Miller was an explosive player who could score on any given carry from any distance but he was also stopped for minimal gain a lot more often than Carlos Hyde. Hyde was a punishing bruiser who wore opponents (even MSU) down and was rarely stopped for no gain or a minimal gain.

In that game and not counting sacks, Miller had at least six carries for one yard or less each. Hyde had none. His worst carries of the evening were three for two yards each and all three occurred early in the game when MSU's defense was fresh.

IMHO, getting the ball near midfield down by three with about five minutes to go the Buckeyes should have pounded the rock with Hyde. Maybe throw a pass or run Miller once in a while if you see an opportunity but otherwise run it down their throats.


On the series noted above Miller had three carries for six yards while Hyde had one for three. Hyde's three yard average beats Miller's two yard average and notably 3*4=12 while 2*4=8. Four three yard carries from Hyde make it 1st and 10 on the 35 (52 yard FG).

Hyde was wearing down MSU's defense.  His 18 yard long came on carry number nine of 18. None of the eight prior to that went for more than eight yards, three went for only two yards each, and the average was just 4.6. On Hyde's last ten carries four went for 10+, none were stopped for less than three, and the average was over 8.

Urban Meyer is a really smart guy so I don't mean this to run him down, I just felt that he treated the QB run as his safety blanket a little too much. It worked extremely well when he had a QB built like a FB (Tebow) but not as well with Braxton Miller whose skill set was very different. I'm not even saying that Tebow was better than Miller, just different. Miller didn't have Tebow's size and power but Tebow didn't have Miller's speed and elusiveness.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Elite 8) - 2013 Alabama vs. 2015 Ohio State
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on July 29, 2022, 10:18:13 AM
I feel like Martinez was at Nebraska for about ten years.
Only 10? It felt like at least that to me.