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The Power Four => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on December 08, 2021, 01:44:06 PM

Title: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 08, 2021, 01:44:06 PM

Kicking it off with my ideal choice, the 5+1+2 x 5 model.  You have 20 bowls, divided into 5 tiers.  At each tier you have the best available from each conference (as determined by standing/CFP ranking), plus the best available Group of 5 champ.  Then you play the bowls in ascending tiers, with the top tier doubling as an unseeded (for the bowl round) playoff

I think this makes games relevant all the way through the season, even if you are out of the race, if you are playing for a tangibly better bowl.  It also clearly tiers the bowls, both by participants and date.  And it makes all of the Group of 5 championship game for a bowl game.

DECEMBER 24	.
MUSIC CITY		PENN STATE (7-5) vs. Tennessee (7-5)
ALAMO		PURDUE (8-4) vs. Kansas State (7-5)
DECEMBER 25
POTATO		Virginia Tech (6-6) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
HAWAII		UCLA (8-4) vs. WISCONSIN (8-4)
DECEMBER 27
COPPER		#21 Arkansas (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
LAS VEGAS		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 28
TANGERINE		#25 Texas A&M (8-4) vs. Miami (7-5)
HOLIDAY		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. Arizona State (8-4)
DECEMBER 29
LIBERTY		#19 Clemson (9-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
INDEPENDENCE		#16 Oklahoma (10-2) vs. #22 Kentucky (9-3)
DECEMBER 30
GATOR		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. #18 NC State (9-3)
SUN		Washington State (7-5) vs. UTSA (12-1)
DECEMBER 31
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #14 Oregon (10-3)
PEACH		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. #23 Louisiana (12-1)
JANUARY 1
OUTBACK		#10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2) vs. #13 BYU (10-2)
CITRUS		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #8 Ole Miss (10-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
FIESTA		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
SUGAR		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #5 Notre Dame (11-1)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 10, 2021, 04:28:15 PM

Next is 2010, being the last year of the BCS with a matching calendar to this year.  Also, what a terrible schedule.  The only full bowl days are basically December 30-January 1, just stretching everything else out through that week after NYD.  Awful

DECEMBER 18	.
NEW MEXICO		Nevada (8-4) vs. UAB (8-4)
HUMANITARIAN		Central Michigan (8-4) vs. Boise State (7-5)
NEW ORLEANS		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. South Carolina (6-6)
DECEMBER 21
BEEF O' BRADY'S		Western Kentucky (8-4) vs. Tulsa (6-6)
DECEMBER 22
LAS VEGAS		Washington State (7-5) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 23
POINSETTIA		Coastal Carolina (10-2) vs. Air Force (9-3)
DECEMBER 24
HAWAII		Marshall (7-5) vs. Wyoming (6-6)
DECEMBER 26
PIZZA		MARYLAND (6-6) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 27
INDEPENDENCE		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. North Carolina (6-6)
DECEMBER 28
CHAMPS SPORTS		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
INSIGHT		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
DECEMBER 29
MILITARY		Virginia (6-6) vs. Old Dominion (6-6)
TEXAS		PURDUE (8-4) vs. Texas Tech (6-6)
ALAMO		#14 Oregon (10-3) vs. #16 Oklahoma (10-2)
DECEMBER 30
ARMED FORCES		Army (8-3) vs. UTEP (7-5)
PINSTRIPE		West Virginia (6-6) vs. Central Florida (8-4)
MUSIC CITY		LSU (6-6) vs. Virginia Tech (6-6)
HOLIDAY		UCLA (8-4) vs. Kansas State (7-5)
DECEMBER 31
MEINEKE CAR CARE		Miami (7-5) vs. East Carolina (7-5)
SUN		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. Arizona State (8-4)
LIBERTY		Tennessee (7-5) vs. UTSA (12-1)
CHICK-FIL-A		#19 Clemson (9-3) vs. #25 Texas A&M (8-4)
JANUARY 1
TICKETCITY		PENN STATE (7-5) vs. Florida (6-6)
OUTBACK		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. #22 Kentucky (9-3)
CAPITAL ONE		#8 Ole Miss (10-2) vs. #10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2)
GATOR		WISCONSIN (8-4) vs. Mississippi State (7-5)
ROSE		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
FIESTA		#7 Baylor (11-2) vs. #13 BYU (10-2)
JANUARY 3
ORANGE		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
JANUARY 4
SUGAR		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #5 Notre Dame (11-1)
JANUARY 6
GODADDY.COM		Appalachian State (10-3) vs. Kent State (7-6)
JANUARY 7
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #21 Arkansas (8-4)
JANUARY 8
COMPASS		Auburn (6-6) vs. SMU (8-4)
JANUARY 9
FIGHT HUNGER		Oregon State (7-5) vs. Fresno State (9-3)
JANUARY 10
BCS CHAMPIONSHIP		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #2 MICHIGAN (12-1)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 15, 2021, 11:25:31 AM

Next is 2004, being the last year of the 4 bowl BCS with a matching calendar to this year.

DECEMBER 14	.
NEW ORLEANS		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. Western Kentucky (8-5)
DECEMBER 21
CHAMPS SPORTS		Miami (7-5) vs. Central Florida (8-4)
DECEMBER 22
GMAC		Central Michigan (8-4) vs. UAB (8-4)
DECEMBER 23
FORT WORTH		UTEP (7-5) vs. Kent State (7-6)
LAS VEGAS		#13 BYU (10-2) vs. Oregon State (7-5)
DECEMBER 24
HAWAII		Air Force (9-3) vs. Marshall (7-5)
DECEMBER 27
MPC COMPUTERS		Boise State (7-5) vs. East Carolina (7-5)
MOTOR CITY		PENN STATE (7-5) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 28
INDEPENDENCE		Kansas State (7-5) vs. Mississippi State (7-5)
INSIGHT		Arizona State (8-4) vs. SMU (8-4)
DECEMBER 29
HOUSTON		Nevada (8-4) vs. Liberty (7-5)
ALAMO		WISCONSIN (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
DECEMBER 30
CONTINENTAL TIRE		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
EMERALD		San Diego State (11-2) vs. Army (8-4)
HOLIDAY		#14 Oregon (10-3) vs. #16 Oklahoma (10-2)
SILICON VALLEY		Washington State (7-5) vs. Fresno State (9-3)
DECEMBER 31
MUSIC CITY		PURDUE (8-4) vs. Tennessee (7-5)
SUN		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. UCLA (8-4)
LIBERTY		UTSA (12-1) vs. Utah State (10-3)
PEACH		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #21 Arkansas (8-4)
JANUARY 1
OUTBACK		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. #22 Kentucky (9-3)
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #25 Texas A&M (8-4)
GATOR		#5 Notre Dame (11-1) vs. #19 Clemson (9-3)
CAPITAL ONE		#8 Ole Miss (10-2) vs. #10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2)
ROSE		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
FIESTA		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
JANUARY 3
SUGAR		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
JANUARY 4
ORANGE		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #2 MICHIGAN (12-1)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 16, 2021, 02:01:35 PM

1995, under the Bowl Alliance

DECEMBER 16	.
LAS VEGAS		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 25
ALOHA		Arizona State (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
DECEMBER 27
COPPER		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. PENN STATE (7-5)
DECEMBER 28
ALAMO		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. Kansas State (7-5)
DECEMBER 29
SUN		#14 Oregon (10-3) vs. WISCONSIN (8-4)
INDEPENDENCE		#22 Kentucky (9-3) vs. PURDUE (8-4)
HOLIDAY		#16 Oklahoma (10-2) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 30
LIBERTY		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. UTSA (12-1)
CARQUEST		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. Central Florida (8-4)
PEACH		#19 Clemson (9-3) vs. #21 Arkansas (8-4)
DECEMBER 31
SUGAR		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
JANUARY 1
OUTBACK		#10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2) vs. #25 Texas A&M (8-4)
CITRUS		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #8 Ole Miss (10-2)
GATOR		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #13 BYU (10-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#5 Notre Dame (11-1) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
JANUARY 3
FIESTA		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #3 Georgia (12-1)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 20, 2021, 10:07:16 PM

1993, under the Bowl Coalition

DECEMBER 17	.
LAS VEGAS		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 24
JOHN HANCOCK		Kansas State (7-5) vs. Miami (7-5)
DECEMBER 25
ALOHA		#16 Oklahoma (10-2) vs. Fresno State (10-3)
DECEMBER 28
LIBERTY		#22 Kentucky (9-3) vs. Army (8-4)
DECEMBER 29
COPPER		Iowa State (7-5) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 30
HOLIDAY		#13 BYU (10-2) vs. #15 IOWA (10-3)
FREEDOM		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. UCLA (8-4)
DECEMBER 31
INDEPENDENCE		UTSA (12-1) vs. PURDUE (8-4)
PEACH		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #21 Arkansas (8-4)
GATOR		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
ALAMO		Arizona State (8-4) vs. MINNESOTA (8-4)
JANUARY 1
HALL OF FAME		#10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2) vs. #19 Clemson (9-3)
CITRUS		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #6 OHIO STATE (10-2)
FIESTA		#12 Pittsburgh (11-2) vs. #14 Oregon (10-3)
CARQUEST		#25 Texas A&M (8-4) vs. WISCONSIN (8-4)
COTTON		#5 Notre Dame (11-1) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#8 Ole Miss (10-2) vs. #9 Oklahoma State (11-2)
SUGAR		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #4 Cincinnati (13-0)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: rolltidefan on December 20, 2021, 11:12:25 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 16, 2021, 02:01:35 PM

1995, under the Bowl Alliance

DECEMBER 16	.
LAS VEGAS		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 25
ALOHA		Arizona State (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
DECEMBER 27
COPPER		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. PENN STATE (7-5)
DECEMBER 28
ALAMO		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. Kansas State (7-5)
DECEMBER 29
SUN		#14 Oregon (10-3) vs. WISCONSIN (8-4)
INDEPENDENCE		#22 Kentucky (9-3) vs. PURDUE (8-4)
HOLIDAY		#16 Oklahoma (10-2) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 30
LIBERTY		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. UTSA (12-1)
CARQUEST		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. Central Florida (8-4)
PEACH		#19 Clemson (9-3) vs. #21 Arkansas (8-4)
DECEMBER 31
SUGAR		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
JANUARY 1
OUTBACK		#10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2) vs. #25 Texas A&M (8-4)
CITRUS		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #8 Ole Miss (10-2)
GATOR		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #13 BYU (10-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#5 Notre Dame (11-1) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
JANUARY 3
FIESTA		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #3 Georgia (12-1)

this one has to be off. no way they put uga and bama in a bowl game back then.

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2021, 08:17:04 AM

Well you'd have to get into changing the polls, which I'm not doing.   Those would be the top two available teams. And one year later Florida and Florida State rematched in a similar situation, when #2 ASU was locked into the Rose Bowl

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2021, 04:23:39 PM

1982, last time prior to any bowl agreement matching the current calendar

DECEMBER 11	.
INDEPENDENCE		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. MINNESOTA (8-4)
DECEMBER 17
HOLIDAY		WISCONSIN (8-4) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 18
TANGERINE		#18 NC State (9-3) vs. #22 Kentucky (9-3)
SUN		#25 Texas A&M (8-4) vs. Miami (7-5)
CALIFORNIA		#23 Louisiana (12-1) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
DECEMBER 25
ALOHA		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. Arizona State (8-4)
DECEMBER 29
LIBERTY		#21 Arkansas (8-4) vs. UTSA (12-1)
DECEMBER 30
GATOR		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. #19 Clemson (9-3)
DECEMBER 31
HALL OF FAME		#13 BYU (10-2) vs. #16 Oklahoma (10-2)
BLUEBONNET		#14 Oregon (10-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
PEACH		#8 Ole Miss (10-2) vs. #10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2)
JANUARY 1
COTTON		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
FIESTA		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#5 Notre Dame (11-1) vs. #9 Oklahoma State (11-2)
SUGAR		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #4 Cincinnati (13-0)

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 21, 2021, 04:57:14 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 08, 2021, 01:44:06 PM

Kicking it off with my ideal choice, the 5+1+2 x 5 model.  You have 20 bowls, divided into 5 tiers.  At each tier you have the best available from each conference (as determined by standing/CFP ranking), plus the best available Group of 5 champ.  Then you play the bowls in ascending tiers, with the top tier doubling as an unseeded (for the bowl round) playoff

I think this makes games relevant all the way through the season, even if you are out of the race, if you are playing for a tangibly better bowl.  It also clearly tiers the bowls, both by participants and date.  And it makes all of the Group of 5 championship game for a bowl game.

DECEMBER 24	.
MUSIC CITY		PENN STATE (7-5) vs. Tennessee (7-5)
ALAMO		PURDUE (8-4) vs. Kansas State (7-5)
DECEMBER 25
POTATO		Virginia Tech (6-6) vs. Northern Illinois (9-4)
HAWAII		UCLA (8-4) vs. WISCONSIN (8-4)
DECEMBER 27
COPPER		#21 Arkansas (8-4) vs. Iowa State (7-5)
LAS VEGAS		MINNESOTA (8-4) vs. Utah State (10-3)
DECEMBER 28
TANGERINE		#25 Texas A&M (8-4) vs. Miami (7-5)
HOLIDAY		#24 San Diego State (11-2) vs. Arizona State (8-4)
DECEMBER 29
LIBERTY		#19 Clemson (9-3) vs. #20 Houston (11-2)
INDEPENDENCE		#16 Oklahoma (10-2) vs. #22 Kentucky (9-3)
DECEMBER 30
GATOR		#15 IOWA (10-3) vs. #18 NC State (9-3)
SUN		Washington State (7-5) vs. UTSA (12-1)
DECEMBER 31
COTTON		#9 Oklahoma State (11-2) vs. #14 Oregon (10-3)
PEACH		#17 Wake Forest (10-3) vs. #23 Louisiana (12-1)
JANUARY 1
OUTBACK		#10 MICHIGAN STATE (10-2) vs. #13 BYU (10-2)
CITRUS		#6 OHIO STATE (10-2) vs. #8 Ole Miss (10-2)
ROSE		#2 MICHIGAN (12-1) vs. #11 Utah (10-3)
ORANGE		#3 Georgia (12-1) vs. #12 Pittsburgh (11-2)
FIESTA		#4 Cincinnati (13-0) vs. #7 Baylor (11-2)
SUGAR		#1 Alabama (12-1) vs. #5 Notre Dame (11-1)

I think I like this idea but I'm curious about a few specifics:

• Would the post-bowl playoff be four teams?  
• Would bowl losers be excluded?
• How, specifically, would playoff participants be selected post-bowls?  

As I see it, and assuming a 4-team post-bowl playoff you'd have three strata:

• Teams that could automatically get in by winning their bowl (Bama, M, UGA, Cincy, ND).  ND is included here because they are the first team out AND they are playing one of the teams that is "in" so with a win they effectively take Bama's spot.  
• Teams that have a shot with a win (tOSU, Baylor, Ole Miss, OkSU, MSU, Utah)*
• Everybody else

*Teams that have a shot are based on best case scenario which works out as follows:

• Bama/ND winner is in.  
• M, UGA, and Cincy are in if they win but if one, two, or three of them lose that opens up additional spots.  
• #6 tOSU is in if they win and one of M/UGA/Cincy loses.  
• #7 Baylor creates a spot by beating Cincy but that spot *MIGHT* go to tOSU if they also win.  
• #8 Ole Miss knocks out tOSU by winning but is probably still behind Baylor so they need either Utah to beat M or Pitt to beat UGA.  
• #9 OkSU would be behind the Bama/ND winner, the Cincy/Baylor winner, and the tOSU/Ole Miss winner but could get in if Georgia and Michigan both lost.  
• #10 MSU is same as OkSU except that they also need OkSU to lose.  
• #11 Utah creates a spot by taking out Michigan but would still be behind the Bama/ND, Cincy/Baylor, and tOSU/Ole Miss winners so they would also need Pitt to beat UGA.  

Ie, the Utah to the Playoff scenario is as follows:

• Utah beats Michigan
• Pitt beats Georgia
• OkSU loses to Oregon
• MSU loses to BYU (these last two *MIGHT* not be necessary because Utah's upset win over #2 Michigan might leap-frog them ahead of OkSU and MSU)

In that case the four CFP entrants would be:

• The Bama/ND winner
• The Cincy/Baylor winner
• The tOSU/Ole Miss winner
• Utah

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2021, 05:17:07 PM

No, the 4 BCS bowls are the playoffs

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 22, 2021, 02:20:22 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2021, 05:17:07 PM

No, the 4 BCS bowls are the playoffs

Ah, ok. So it is basically 5+1+2 but with an unseeded first round. Ok.

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 22, 2021, 01:39:25 PM

Last one, a tournament that mirrors the college basketball tournament, using the Massey composite rankings for seeding purposes

EAST (ATLANTA)

• #1 Georgia vs. #16 Sacred Heart*/Davidson*
• #8 Appalachian State vs. #9 San Diego State
• #5 Wake Forest vs. #12 Oregon State
• #4 IOWA vs. #13 SMU
• #3 Ole Miss vs. #14 Sacramento State*
• #6 PENN STATE vs. #11 Miami
• #7 Louisiana* vs. #10 Kansas State
• #2 Notre Dame vs. #15 East Tennessee State

SOUTH (ARLINGTON)

• #1 Alabama* vs. #16 Holy Cross*/SC State*
• #8 MINNESOTA vs. #9 Boise State
• #5 NC State vs. #12 Coastal Carolina
• #4 WISCONSIN vs. #13 Washington State
• #3 Oklahoma vs. #14 Villanova*
• #6 PURDUE vs. #11 Arizona State
• #7 Kentucky vs. #10 Fresno State
• #2 Baylor* vs. #15 Dartmouth*

MIDWEST (INDIANAPOLIS)

• #1 MICHIGAN* vs. #16 Jackson State*
• #8 UTSA* vs. #9 Mississippi State
• #5 Texas A&M vs. #12 Nevada
• #4 Clemson vs. #13 Texas/Florida
• #3 Pittsburgh* vs. #14 Northern Illinois*
• #6 Oregon vs. #11 LSU
• #7 Iowa State vs. #10 Auburn
• #2 OHIO STATE vs. #15 Kennesaw State*

WEST (PASADENA)

• #1 Cincinnati* vs. #16 UT-Martin*
• #8 UCLA vs. #9 Tennessee
• #5 BYU vs. #12 Utah State*
• #4 MICHIGAN STATE vs. #13 Louisville/Western Kentucky
• #3 Utah* vs. #14 Sam Houston State*
• #6 Arkansas vs. #11 North Dakota State*
• #7 Houston vs. #10 Air Force
• #2 Oklahoma State vs. #15 Incarnate Word*

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 27, 2021, 12:08:51 PM

Quote from: ELA on December 21, 2021, 05:17:07 PM

No, the 4 BCS bowls are the playoffs

Ok, so now I thought I understood it but then I ran into more confusion.  

Clarification:  
As I understand it you are using 5+1+2 at each level so first the playoff is seeded:

• All five P5 Champs (Bama, M, Baylor, Utah, Pitt)
• Highest ranked G5 Champ (Cincy)
• Two at-large so the next to highest ranked teams (UGA, ND)

At the next level you have the two 12/31 bowls (Cotton, Peach) and the two non-CFP NYD bowls (Outback, Citrus).  At this level we have the next best from the categories so:

• The highest ranked remaining team from each P5 conference (tOSU, OleMiss, OkSU, Oregon, Wake)
• The highest ranked remaining G5 (BYU)
• The next two highest ranked remaining teams (MSU, Louisiana?)

Louisiana is where I'm getting confused here.  Wouldn't the next highest ranked team be #15 Iowa?  

Then the next level should be the 12/29 and 12/30 bowls and should be the next best from the categories so:

• The highest ranked remaining team from each P5 conference (IA* or ??, 

Ok, I'm lost.  

I *THINK* that part of the source of my confusion is that I'm using rankings and it looks like you are using league records, right?  I guess that would be ok because the two at-large spots in each tier would make up for any glaring issues there.  What do you do for the at-large spots once you run out of ranked teams?  

Also the Louisiana thing?  Why are there two G5's in the second level?  

I don't mean to be pedantic.  I really do like this idea but I'm a bit confused about the specifics.  

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 27, 2021, 08:10:33 PM

BYU is the at large. Louisiana is in as a conference champ. It's not the five best G5 teams,  it's the five G5 champions. You either win your conference, or your season's over

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 28, 2021, 11:04:39 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 27, 2021, 08:10:33 PM

BYU is the at large. Louisiana is in as a conference champ. It's not the five best G5 teams,  it's the five G5 champions. You either win your conference, or your season's over

As I said earlier, I really do like at least the general concept of this idea.  I think it would merge well with my preferred 5+1+2 8-team playoff. 

I also think, as you have pointed out, that this would give every team something to play for even after they were out of the NC race.  IMHO, the biggest problem with the playoff is that it basically sucks all the oxygen out of the room.  CFB seems to be viewed as this VERY small group of teams legitimately in the CFP/NC race and then a bunch of also-rans who don't matter.  That is a big part of why there is diminished interest in the non-CFP bowls, even the bigger non-CFP bowls like the Rose.  

I look at that this year.  My team is 10-2, ranked #6, and headed to the RoseBowl and I'm just not excited about it. If you got in Marty and Doc's DeLorean and went back and found me in my dorm or apartment in the mid 1990's and told me that the Buckeyes would be #6 and going to the Rose Bowl I'd have been ecstatic.  Now, I'm basically glad a bunch of seniors are opting out because I'd rather see the Buckeyes get a good workout for the 2022 team than see them win the RoseBowl.  

The CFP has created that.  I just don't care much because it isn't the CFP and on some level once you aren't in the CFP what difference does it make if you are in the Rose Bowl or the Detroit Bowl?  

Back to your proposal:
How are you choosing at-larges and arranging G5 Champs after you run out of ranked teams?  Ie, for the G5 Champs you have:

• #4 Cincy, AAC
• #23 Louisiana, SBELT
• nr UTSA, CUSA
• nr UNI, MAC
• nr UNI, MAC

I organized them as you arranged them and I don't disagree but how would you rank the unranked G5 Champs?  

Similar question for the P5 non-Champions:  Are you ranking them by ranking or by record (overall or league) and what tiebreakers are you using since there will obviously be LOTS of ties to break.  For example, within the B1G this year:

• #2 12-1/8-1 Michigan
• #6 10-2/8-1 Ohio State
• #10 10-2/7-2 Michigan State
• #15 10-3/7-2 Iowa
• 8-4/6-3 Minnesota
• 8-4/6-3 Wisconsin
• 8-4/6-3 Purdue
• 7-5/4-5 Penn State
• 6-6/3-6 Maryland

In your scenario it looks like you have MSU getting into tier-2 as an at-large (where I presume their standing within the B1G is irrelevant) and Iowa relegated to tier-3 as the best remaining B1G team when tier-3 is selected.  What if MSU were not an at-large.  Which of Iowa/MSU would be considered the B1G's next best after Champion Michigan and #2 tOSU?  They have the same league record (7-2) and both were perfect OOC.  MSU is 1/2 game better overall but Iowa's "extra" loss came in a game that MSU didn't qualify for.  I can truly see both sides of this argument.  On one hand the Hawkeyes shouldn't be punished for losing a game that MSU wasn't good enough to get into but on the other hand one can make a strong case that Iowa's participation in and MSU's non-qualification for the B1GCG were both a product of the divisions in which they play.  Switch them and MSU is the B1G-W champ while Iowa is a B1G-E also-ran.  Also, the desire not to punish Iowa for losing the CG is at least partly due to an unstated assumption that MSU would have lost the CG had they gotten there.  Well the obvious problem with that is that the Spartans actually played Iowa's CG opponent . . . and beat them.  

Once you get #3/4 sorted out you get to the real mess.  Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Purdue all went 8-4/6-3 and none of them are ranked so you can't use that as a guide anymore.  Now what?  It looks like you sorted by H2H2H where MN was 2-0, UW was 1-1, and PU was 0-2.  Thus you have:

• Minnesota in tier-4 going to the Las Vegas Bowl to face UtSt on 12/27
• Wisconsin in tier-5 going to the Hawaii Bowl to face UCLA on 12/25
• Purdue in tier-5 (at large?)* going to the Alamo Bowl to face KSU on 12/24

Arguments for and against each of the three:

• Minnesota:  The obvious argument for the Gophers is that they went 2-0 against the other two.  I know for most people that is all they need to know but I want to point out that those are their two best wins BY FAR and that they also have BAD losses to BGSU and Illinois.  
• Wisconsin:  The Badgers looked awful in a 1-3 start but ND and M both finished in the top-5 so those are "good" losses.  Then they looked to have everything figured out in a seven game winning streak before losing the Ax game to rival Minnesota.  The arguments for are the blowout win over Iowa and that they have no bad losses and that their loss to MN was close while they blew out PU.  The argument against is that they DID lose to Minnesota and that PU and IA are their only quality wins.  
• Purdue:  The arguments for are their quality wins (blowouts of MSU and IA) and no bad losses.  The obvious argument against is that they lost to both MN and UW.  

*Purdue as an at-large:  I actually asked this question earlier in this post but how are you selecting at-large teams after you run out of ranked teams?  Purdue is 8-4/6-3 and I would assume that there are other similarly situated P5 teams so how are you ranking them?  

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 28, 2021, 11:37:42 AM

Yeah, MSU got in as an at large, but I sorted purely by conference standing for determine the order of selection within the conferences

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 28, 2021, 11:57:52 AM

Quote from: ELA on December 28, 2021, 11:37:42 AM

Yeah, MSU got in as an at large, but I sorted purely by conference standing for determine the order of selection within the conferences

Standard tiebreakers for a situation like MN/UW/PU?  

How did you rank the unranked G5 Champs?  

How did you rank the unranked P5 at-large?  

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: ELA on December 28, 2021, 11:58:28 AM

Massey composite rankings

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 28, 2021, 03:55:28 PM

I had to chart this all out for it to flow right for me:
(https://i.imgur.com/Son6HhW.png)


I'm pretty sure the SEC would demand a sixth tier because (without bothering to look it up) I assume that they would get both at-large teams in an extra tier.  

I really do like the concept.  

Title: Re: Alternate Bowl Scenarios
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on December 28, 2021, 03:56:20 PM

Oh, in the above table P5CG winners are in bold and P5CG losers are underlined.