CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Mdot21 on December 07, 2021, 04:17:59 PM
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to transfer to Texas.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/quinn-ewers-rumors-texas-putting-nil-money-on-the-line-to-land-no-1-transfer-qb/ar-AARzvna
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*shocked face* who could see this coming?
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This is still very much a rumor. Zero confirmation and the guy who "broke" it lost his UT insider connections the day Mack Brown left campus.
But still, it's entirely possible. This is one of the directions that NIL was bound to lead us.
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Texas should want to turn it into an arms race. They've got more money than anybody. A lot more of it.
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Texas should want to turn it into an arms race. They've got more money than anybody. A lot more of it.
Oh yeah, it is underway. I'm just not sure I believe we're going to see the Texas boosters funnel millions to one player just yet, which is what is implied.
The actual idea behind all of the moves in Austin, is to effectively endow NIL endorsement money for every player of the football team, and then eventually for every athlete in every sport, at UT. The goal is $350M to fully fund it. The estimates are 3-5 years.
So I'm not sure I believe that anyone is ready to show out with several million for just one player, just yet.
Although it's certainly possible, we do have a lot of really wealthy boosters who like to throw their money around.
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i hope he is worth the money
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i hope he is worth the money
I don't think you're being sincere. :)
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i don't blame the kid at all, and i don't really blame texas either. if ya got it, flaunt it.
but if this ends up being close to true, it's bad news for everyone. we've got to figure out a way to keep it from becoming an arms race, and that's likely too late.
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(https://i.imgur.com/GRsewDM.png)
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Now I know what its like to be in the NY Yankees front office
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i don't blame the kid at all, and i don't really blame texas either. if ya got it, flaunt it.
but if this ends up being close to true, it's bad news for everyone. we've got to figure out a way to keep it from becoming an arms race, and that's likely too late.
The arms race began a long time ago, it was just limited to those willing to have bagmen pay the players under the table.
Now at least, the money will be above the table and there's no moral or ethical reason for the boosters of schools not to engage.
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I want every player with lots of NIL $$$ and no production yet to fail.
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I want every player with lots of NIL $$$ and no production yet to fail.
(https://i.imgflip.com/4dlee2.jpg)
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I suspect things will settle down over the next few years. Boosters will realize they're not getting the return they wanted or expected, players will realize that accepting that money is going to come with some strings they might not want to have pulled.
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I suspect things will settle down over the next few years. Boosters will realize they're not getting the return they wanted or expected, players will realize that accepting that money is going to come with some strings they might not want to have pulled.
i hear this all the time and i dont buy it. no way it stops no way it slows down. like taxes once it starts it never ends.
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i hear this all the time and i dont buy it. no way it stops no way it slows down. like taxes once it starts it never ends.
It will slow down the same way NFL, MLB, Soccer free agency has slowed down. (ie, I agree with you it won't.) What really has slowed down is the shock and awe reporting, of this type of stuff...
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The schools didn't plan for this at all and mostly stuck their fingers in their ears until they were forced to deal with it. So it will be a lot of random stuff until they get around to trying to come up with a coherent set of rules for it. Probably the worst thing is having people play one year, then enter the portal and head to the highest bidder to play the next year (and then do it again).
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Ewers is quite talented. It's not an exaggeration to say he may be the next ex-Buckeye Heisman winner.
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The end of college football has begun.
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Yup,hope society isn't far behind it, let the Sunday Guys set up their minors.They're getting free research and development why should they reach into their already filthy rich coffers - it's maddening
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The schools didn't plan for this at all and mostly stuck their fingers in their ears until they were forced to deal with it. So it will be a lot of random stuff until they get around to trying to come up with a coherent set of rules for it. Probably the worst thing is having people play one year, then enter the portal and head to the highest bidder to play the next year (and then do it again).
Players only get one free transfer without having to sit out. So Ewers gets to do this once, but if he's dissatisfied with his second stop and wants to transfer again, he's going to sit out a year. That won't be good for his NIL prospects and/or contracts, nor will it be good for proving himself to the NFL if that's his ultimate goal.
i hear this all the time and i dont buy it. no way it stops no way it slows down. like taxes once it starts it never ends.
You "hear this all the time" for something that's been around for 8 months? Okay. Maybe give it some time. Plenty of boosters/sponsor companies are going to find that they're not getting their desired return on investment. And some players will discover they don't like all the strings that come attached with certain deals.
They've basically just deregulated a market that has been regulated for over 100 years. Things are going to be wonky for a while, and then they'll settle out.
Note-- I'm not saying the money will go away. That cat is out of the bag, there's no going back, and in general the money will climb overall. But some of these really weird and high$ one-off deals will start to go away, as the investors realize they're not getting the return they want.
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The end of college football has begun.
Began a long time ago. Arguably, in 1984 when Oklahoma and Georgia sued the NCAA. My parents would probably say it began back when scholarship limits were introduced. Etc.
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Ewers is quite talented. It's not an exaggeration to say he may be the next ex-Buckeye Heisman winner.
I'd be cool with it if he ended up at Texas and that happened. :)
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The arms race began a long time ago, it was just limited to those willing to have bagmen pay the players under the table.
Now at least, the money will be above the table and there's no moral or ethical reason for the boosters of schools not to engage.
that's very true about bagmen.
and it's not an ethical or moral argument, it's a matter of competitive advantage. and i'm fully aware bama will be one of the ones taking the most advantage of a skewed system. i just don't like it, not that it's "wrong".
edit: also fully aware it's not really a level playing field as is, and i'm open to address that.
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this is capitalism at work. if a bunch of boosters want to waste their money trying to entice kids to come to a particular school, have at it. never going to blame anyone for making money. go make that paper Ewers.
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this is capitalism at work. if a bunch of boosters want to waste their money trying to entice kids to come to a particular school, have at it. never going to blame anyone for making money. go make that paper Ewers.
again, i don't blame him 1 iota. go make that money while you can.
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Players only get one free transfer without having to sit out. So Ewers gets to do this once, but if he's dissatisfied with his second stop and wants to transfer again, he's going to sit out a year. That won't be good for his NIL prospects and/or contracts, nor will it be good for proving himself to the NFL if that's his ultimate goal.
Maybe. Anyone can enter the portal (I believe) which frees them up to hear from other coaches, and I'm not sure what limits there are now on NIL stuff, boosters, etc. Say he goes to Texas and has a good year. TAMU boosters may want to entice him to leave, because that would hurt Texas and help TAMU, whether he sits out a year or not.
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again, i don't blame him 1 iota. go make that money while you can.
yup. what happens if the kid blows out his knee and can never play again? at least he'll have millions in the bank from his NIL deals.
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that's very true about bagmen.
and it's not an ethical or moral argument, it's a matter of competitive advantage. and i'm fully aware bama will be one of the ones taking the most advantage of a skewed system. i just don't like it, not that it's "wrong".
edit: also fully aware it's not really a level playing field as is, and i'm open to address that.
As far as recruiting enticement, for decades the playing field has been tilted heavily in favor of the cheater schools with a strong bag game.
Now, the field will be tilted heavily in favor of the richest schools.
In some cases, those overlap. In others, they don't.
My comments on ethical involvement were targeted specifically at schools that have great wealth, but have been unwilling to engage in bagman tactics. Now that impediment is removed-- the players can be openly paid, and there's no ethical or moral reason for boosters not to do so.
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This shouldn't be allowed it'll screw everything up to hell and back.Just start the minor leagues already and be done with it.Let them make money off their likeness and such.But with this crap conference play and fair play will be a thing of the past
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The bagmen won't be going away. They will still influence.
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Maybe. Anyone can enter the portal (I believe) which frees them up to hear from other coaches, and I'm not sure what limits there are now on NIL stuff, boosters, etc. Say he goes to Texas and has a good year. TAMU boosters may want to entice him to leave, because that would hurt Texas and help TAMU, whether he sits out a year or not.
I mean, I can see why that's good for A&M, but you haven't made a case for how sitting out a year would be good for the player himself.
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yup. what happens if the kid blows out his knee and can never play again?
This is exactly why the playoffs shouldn't be expanded,more games,more risk
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The bagmen won't be going away. They will still influence.
It's pretty obvious at this point that the money to be gained above the table dwarfs whatever the bagmen are capable of mustering. They'll die off simply because they're no longer needed. Their only purpose was to hide payments under the table. That purpose is now irrelevant. The paradigm shift is massive.
For example, we know that Cam Newton got around $200,000 of dirty money. With this NIL deal, even backup offensive linemen at Texas will be getting a minimum of $200,000 if they stay 4 years.
And again, I'm not arguing this is good for college football. But there's no going back.
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I mean, I can see why that's good for A&M, but you haven't made a case for how sitting out a year would be good for the player himself.
$$$$$$$$
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$$$$$$$$
How? Why? His current NIL deal is already in danger of drying up, specifically because he's NOT playing football games. There is no compelling argument here, for sitting out a year in-between transfers.
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It's pretty obvious at this point that the money to be gained above the table dwarfs whatever the bagmen are capable of mustering. They'll die off simply because they're no longer needed. Their only purpose was to hide payments under the table. That purpose is now irrelevant. The paradigm shift is massive.
For example, we know that Cam Newton got around $200,000 of dirty money. With this NIL deal, even backup offensive linemen at Texas will be getting a minimum of $200,000 if they stay 4 years.
And again, I'm not arguing this is good for college football. But there's no going back.
Think about taxes. The bagmen will still be there.
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Think about taxes. The bagmen will still be there.
NIL Booster: So we're going to give you $200,000 to play backup o-line, what do you think about that?
O-line Player: Well, there's gonna be taxes on that, so it's really only gonna be about $130,000. The bagman is offering me $3.50 and a box of twinkies, seeing as I'm a 3* who is destined to be a backup o-lineman.
NIL Booster: So... uhhh.... we've got a deal, then?
O-line Player: Ummm, yup!
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How? Why? His current NIL deal is already in danger of drying up, specifically because he's NOT playing football games. There is no compelling argument here, for sitting out a year in-between transfers.
Because it is simply a matter of dollars. He will get X amount of dollars to continue to play at one place. If another school comes up with >X amount of dollars to transfer, he can still come out ahead even by not playing.
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Because it is simply a matter of dollars. He will get X amount of dollars to continue to play at one place. If another school comes up with >X amount of dollars to transfer, he can still come out ahead even by not playing.
Yeah... I think you're just making up stuff to worry about. If something like that ever happens, I'll let you say "I told you so" but it is way, way down the list of problems and challenges stemming from NIL.
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Yeah... I think you're just making up stuff to worry about. If something like that ever happens, I'll let you say "I told you so" but it is way, way down the list of problems and challenges stemming from NIL.
Heh, well, if you are betting on college football boosters being sane and rational, I have some bad news for you...
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This shouldn't be allowed it'll screw everything up to hell and back.Just start the minor leagues already and be done with it.Let them make money off their likeness and such.But with this crap conference play and fair play will be a thing of the past
I love this coming from an OSU fan whose shiny helmet has already tilted the playing field HEAVILY in your team's favor...
What, are you worried this'll dilute the massive advantage OSU already enjoys? Can't have that!
Sounds like old money complaining about new money.
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Heh, well, if you are betting on college football boosters being sane and rational, I have some bad news for you...
Ha! This is certainly true...
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I love this coming from an OSU fan whose shiny helmet has already tilted the playing field HEAVILY in your team's favor...
What, are you worried this'll dilute the massive advantage OSU already enjoys? Can't have that!
Sounds like old money complaining about new money.
Crybaby helmet fans are the worst.
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I love this coming from an OSU fan whose shiny helmet has already tilted the playing field HEAVILY in your team's favor...
What, are you worried this'll dilute the massive advantage OSU already enjoys? Can't have that!
Sounds like old money complaining about new money.
when did texas become new money?
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I really think the NCAA should have been proactive and created a program that would have leveled the playing field with regards to NIL
now what needs to happen is the top schools that have been paying players for years need to be grouped and removed from college football and turned into a semi pro football league. this would appease all people on all sides of the NIL
then put the rests of the schools together with balanced conferences and a program for NIL for those places that is equitable. basically an over haul of the whole NCAA athletic programs
if you think boosters will police themselves you are delusional. this gets way worst before anything ever gets better. Pandora's box has been opened and no one can close it a major change will need to be taken
and yes this has only been 8 months and can you say things are getting better? slowing down? just look at Texas's program and they will not be the last to do this just the first
Semi Pro is where it is at and the NFL can pay those top universities for the facilities as the players wont be going to school why should they, they are already getting paid more than the professors. the Universities will be making big money form the NFL so that will help pay for the non-rev sports
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when did texas become new money?
Well we've sucked for a long time. But recruiting hasn't really been the main problem. So I guess we're like old money that buys a bunch of expensive toys but never uses them. Or something.
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I really think the NCAA should have been proactive and created a program that would have leveled the playing field with regards to NIL
now what needs to happen is the top schools that have been paying players for years need to be grouped and removed from college football and turned into a semi pro football league. this would appease all people on all sides of the NIL
then put the rests of the schools together with balanced conferences and a program for NIL for those places that is equitable. basically an over haul of the whole NCAA athletic programs
if you think boosters will police themselves you are delusional. this gets way worst before anything ever gets better. Pandora's box has been opened and no one can close it a major change will need to be taken
and yes this has only been 8 months and can you say things are getting better? slowing down? just look at Texas's program and they will not be the last to do this just the first
Semi Pro is where it is at and the NFL can pay those top universities for the facilities as the players wont be going to school why should they, they are already getting paid more than the professors. the Universities will be making big money form the NFL so that will help pay for the non-rev sports
It sounds like you believe the NCAA has any say in this? They don't. They fought it tooth and nail, they fought it to the Supreme Court, but ultimately the state laws will always supersede anything the NCAA could ever attempt to implement.
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Well we've sucked for a long time. But recruiting hasn't really been the main problem. So I guess we're like old money that buys a bunch of expensive toys but never uses them. Or something.
been there. gotta get most of the people out of the kitchen and let the chef work. and find a good chef. was tough at bama, i suspect will be equally if not more tough at texas.
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when did texas become new money?
I didn't think Nubbz was necessarily complaining about Texas per se...
I just found it odd that he's saying that this'll "screw everything up to hell and back" and "fair play will be a thing of the past."
There's no such thing as fair play, as the fans of non-helmets know. There are the have-lots (helmets), the have-a-littles (other P5), and the have-nots (G5).
Helmets benefit from their shiny helmet, and money isn't a factor. Helmets HATE the idea that money can become a factor, because hell, anyone can get some money together. They used to compete with other helmets for recruits--now they have to fend off every program with a few boosters that have more millions than sense. It's not FAIR that suddenly they have to compete fairly on a different playing field!
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Just be nice if the Universities could have their competitions w/o all this unchecked private bidding playing in the background
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My only issue with this is that it's not NIL at all. It's pay-for-play via a different metric.
The idea was that players could profit off their name, image, and/or likeness. I.e. if they wanted to appear in a commercial, they could and be compensated. If EA Sports wanted to use their name and stats in a video game, they could do so and the player would be compensated for it.
DJ at Clemson actually got an NIL deal. He appeared in Dr Pepper commercials.
Seems that many of these deals are just boosters paying players to play. They're not actually capitalizing in any way on that name, image, or likeness, they're just paying them to play for their team.
Granted, I don't know how you regulate this to discern any difference. I suppose to a booster, paying Quinn Ewers to play for your team IS capitalizing on his name, image, or likeness--even if all he gets is an autographed jersey and the ability to brag to his booster buddies that he got Quinn Ewers on campus.
But it seems far outside of what the spirit of NIL really was intended to be.
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Lock the Thread
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been there. gotta get most of the people out of the kitchen and let the chef work. and find a good chef. was tough at bama, i suspect will be equally if not more tough at texas.
Well lucking into hiring a "good chef" who turned out to be The Greatest Of All Time, the golderned Joël Robuchon of college football, doesn't hurt, of course. :)
My only issue with this is that it's not NIL at all. It's pay-for-play via a different metric.
The idea was that players could profit off their name, image, and/or likeness. I.e. if they wanted to appear in a commercial, they could and be compensated. If EA Sports wanted to use their name and stats in a video game, they could do so and the player would be compensated for it.
DJ at Clemson actually got an NIL deal. He appeared in Dr Pepper commercials.
Seems that many of these deals are just boosters paying players to play. They're not actually capitalizing in any way on that name, image, or likeness, they're just paying them to play for their team.
Granted, I don't know how you regulate this to discern any difference. I suppose to a booster, paying Quinn Ewers to play for your team IS capitalizing on his name, image, or likeness--even if all he gets is an autographed jersey and the ability to brag to his booster buddies that he got Quinn Ewers on campus.
But it seems far outside of what the spirit of NIL really was intended to be.
I think one problem is that people are assigning any kind of intended "Spirit of the Law" to NIL in the first place. The state legislatures weren't trying to establish an egalitarian society where all student athletes live in a land of peace and opportunity. They were simply trying to break the amateur paradigm and get the athletes paid. NIL was something they actually had the authority and jurisdiction to force and legislate into existence, and they did so. It was low-hanging fruit. But some of the other current and ongoing proposals for state laws also include taking measures to force the academic institutions to allow and engage in direct pay-for-play. That's their next step, the next domino targeted in their design. The intention was always to eliminate the amateur model completely.
So the only "Spirit of the Law" was to turn college athletics into professional athletics. And here we are.
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I didn't think Nubbz was necessarily complaining about Texas per se...
I read it as a jab at Texas for not being relevant enough to be considered "old money." ;)
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I think one problem is that people are assigning any kind of intended "Spirit of the Law" to NIL in the first place. The state legislatures weren't trying to establish an egalitarian society where all student athletes live in a land of peace and opportunity. They were simply trying to break the amateur paradigm and get the athletes paid. NIL was something they actually had the authority and jurisdiction to force and legislate into existence, and they did so. It was low-hanging fruit. But some of the other current and ongoing proposals for state laws also include taking measures to force the academic institutions to allow and engage in direct pay-for-play. That's their next step, the next domino targeted in their design. The intention was always to eliminate the amateur model completely.
So the only "Spirit of the Law" was to turn college athletics into professional athletics. And here we are.
There were multiple complaints.
One of the key ones is that if a non-athlete student also happened to be a musician, even if the student was enrolled on scholarship in a university's music program, nothing stopped that student from playing paid gigs on the side. Or if a non-athlete student had a prominent side gig running a social media influencer account, or producing a popular podcast, etc, nothing stopped them from profiting from that side gig.
But there was a situation where a football player had a podcast (IIRC) and had to choose between his podcast on the side and continuing to play football, because it was deemed that he was profiting off his athletic prowess. That was a major double standard.
Beyond that there was the EA sports issue, which destroyed a popular video game needlessly, and all that would be necessary to keep it would be to actually let the players earn money for consenting to their NIL to be used in the game. There's the idea that stars would actually be able to do endorsements or other things on the side. Essentially it's allowing them to profit from being themselves, without actually making them employees of the university.
None of these fundamentally change the student-athlete paradigm, whereas pay-for-play does. At that point they're employees, and that's a whole different hornet's nest.
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There were multiple complaints.
One of the key ones is that if a non-athlete student also happened to be a musician, even if the student was enrolled on scholarship in a university's music program, nothing stopped that student from playing paid gigs on the side. Or if a non-athlete student had a prominent side gig running a social media influencer account, or producing a popular podcast, etc, nothing stopped them from profiting from that side gig.
But there was a situation where a football player had a podcast (IIRC) and had to choose between his podcast on the side and continuing to play football, because it was deemed that he was profiting off his athletic prowess. That was a major double standard.
Beyond that there was the EA sports issue, which destroyed a popular video game needlessly, and all that would be necessary to keep it would be to actually let the players earn money for consenting to their NIL to be used in the game. There's the idea that stars would actually be able to do endorsements or other things on the side. Essentially it's allowing them to profit from being themselves, without actually making them employees of the university.
None of these fundamentally change the student-athlete paradigm, whereas pay-for-play does. At that point they're employees, and that's a whole different hornet's nest.
Oh I understand all of that. And those motivations are true of some of the players, but hardly true of all of them.
Right now, currently, many of the state legislatures have the specific goal of destroying the amateur athletics model. Many of them have current and ongoing proposals to force the academic institutions within their own jurisdictions into direct pay-for-play. And if even one state does it, they will all have to do it, to keep their own institutions from being disadvantaged. Exactly the same way the NIL dominoes toppled.
There are powerful political movements pushing this agenda for the purpose of destroying college football amateurism, and for them, NIL was just the first step, because it was easy to execute.
Their entire goal has been to professionalize college amateur athletics "for the good of the athlete."
And they've already succeeded. This was the inevitable next state, once the state legislatures decided they needed to act on behalf of the athletes.
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I have no problem with them destroying the amateur model. Having a billion dollar industry where the most important employees aren't getting paid because you magically determine they aren't employees is theft. That said, a set of rules and guidelines on how we want this to operate is important for the sanctity of the sport.
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I have no problem with them destroying the amateur model. Having a billion dollar industry where the most important employees aren't getting paid because you magically determine they aren't employees is theft.
That's certainly the reasoning of the legislators that are in the process of killing the amateur model.
That said, a set of rules and guidelines on how we want this to operate is important for the sanctity of the sport.
There is no "sanctity of the sport" once it becomes professionalized. The NFL salary cap doesn't work in the players' favor, it works in the owners' favor. That's not "sanctity."
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There is no "sanctity of the sport" once it becomes professionalized. The NFL salary cap doesn't work in the players' favor, it works in the owners' favor. That's not "sanctity."
I'm not talking about some sort of fairness for all or caps on what is spent. I'm more talking about the chicanery that may result in trying to pay guys to leave other teams, or sit out games, or anything that is hurting the legitimacy of the game. We already had Roy Manning supposedly recruiting for USC while working for Oklahoma. And as far as anyone can tell, that may not even be against the rules.
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I'm not talking about some sort of fairness for all or caps on what is spent. I'm more talking about the chicanery that may result in trying to pay guys to leave other teams, or sit out games, or anything that is hurting the legitimacy of the game. We already had Roy Manning supposedly recruiting for USC while working for Oklahoma. And as far as anyone can tell, that may not even be against the rules.
Ah, gotcha. We'd been speaking so much within the context of the new, financial side of things, I thought that's where you were headed.
Well, as we've discussed I don't think it's going to end up being much of a big deal, and you do, but one rule in place to try to limit the poaching, is the requirement to sit out a year after the one freebie transfer. I think that will act as enough of a deterrent to keep it from being total free agency. I also think that the school-specific NIL contracts will be written with incentives for staying put.
But, as I've stated many times, I believe it's going to take a while for things to settle out and reach an equilibrium. We've probably got a couple or three years of some really wacky things about to unfold. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Oh I understand all of that. And those motivations are true of some of the players, but hardly true of all of them.
Right now, currently, many of the state legislatures have the specific goal of destroying the amateur athletics model. Many of them have current and ongoing proposals to force the academic institutions within their own jurisdictions into direct pay-for-play. And if even one state does it, they will all have to do it, to keep their own institutions from being disadvantaged. Exactly the same way the NIL dominoes toppled.
There are powerful political movements pushing this agenda for the purpose of destroying college football amateurism, and for them, NIL was just the first step, because it was easy to execute.
Their entire goal has been to professionalize college amateur athletics "for the good of the athlete."
And they've already succeeded. This was the inevitable next state, once the state legislatures decided they needed to act on behalf of the athletes.
God, I wish those f$&^@!s would focus on something important, like steroids in baseball or something.