CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Mdot21 on September 13, 2021, 08:38:40 PM
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good riddance. wonder if Urban comes back to college.
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Luke Fickell gotta be their #1
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Bring back Orgeron.
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Kerry Coombs!
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If they hired Presbyterian's HC, they'd be a top 5 team next year.
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lot of smoke that Urban isn't a fit in Jacksonville and that he's becoming "unhinged".
Bobby Petrino quit on the Falcons after 12 games. Saban quit on the Dolphins after two full seasons. Would be a pretty stunning turn of events if Urbz quit after 1 game.
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Harbaugh to USC!!
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lot of smoke that Urban isn't a fit in Jacksonville and that he's becoming "unhinged".
Kind of doubt it just yet - but it wouldn't shock me either
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Luke Fickell gotta be their #1
I hope Fickell gets a big payday when he wants one, but I also hope he sticks for a while. He's doing good work at UC, really amazing to me.
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SC isn't the diamond in the rough it use to be IMO
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Tom Herman is available.
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SC isn't the diamond in the rough it use to be IMO
The old Blue Bloods are showing some rust, USC, Texas, Nebbie .... Do you think they will be "back" any time soon?
Bama and Ohio State are clearly solid, ND is sort of relevant as is OU.
I suspect Nebbie is "gone". Texas "should" be able to get back, I don't know about USC.
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So is Charlie Strong. :)
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So is Charlie Strong. :)
Sure. John Mackovic and David McWilliams are also not currently working as football coaches. They're only 79 and 77 respectively, so they've got a few more years in them.
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So is Charlie Strong. :)
They'll swing for the fences prolly PC - so stout and solid,back to the basics
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Sure. John Mackovic and David McWilliams are also not currently working as football coaches. They're only 79 and 77 respectively, so they've got a few more years in them.
If they wait the season Sark will be available
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The old Blue Bloods are showing some rust, USC, Texas, Nebbie .... Do you think they will be "back" any time soon?
One would guess UT/SC because of talent base should be getting back into the ring
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The old Blue Bloods are showing some rust, USC, Texas, Nebbie .... Do you think they will be "back" any time soon?
Bama and Ohio State are clearly solid, ND is sort of relevant as is OU.
I suspect Nebbie is "gone". Texas "should" be able to get back, I don't know about USC.
Texas is pretty much in the same boat as Nebraska already, and Oklahoma will be in that boat as well once they join the SEC.
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If they wait the season Sark will be available
Nah we always stick with bad coaches for at least 3 years.
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Sure. John Mackovic and David McWilliams are also not currently working as football coaches. They're only 79 and 77 respectively, so they've got a few more years in them.
That's young.
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Texas is pretty much in the same boat as Nebraska already, and Oklahoma will be in that boat as well once they join the SEC.
Texas is still recruiting at a pretty high level. That is a difference I see. Whether OU can maintain I don't know of course.
I imagine a Blue Chipper in HS reviewing possible places he can go, and USC and Nebbie don't make his list, usually.
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I think USC still has a ton of upside. It's got to be at least as attractive to California recruits as Oregon, and Oregon's pretty good again.
All it takes is the right coach, but finding the right coach isn't always easy. Even Alabama went through three duds before hiring Saban.
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Harbaugh to USC!!
They can have him. I'm all aboard the Mike Hart bandwagon.
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Perfect gig for Matt Campbell. He'd go 10-2 every year, with one loss to Notre Dame, and one loss that costs him a conference title.
Even though he can't beat his rival, it doesn't matter as much at places where the biggest rivalry game is OOC; as is the case at both Iowa St and USC. His inability to win a conference title is not as big of a deal in the CFP era either, particularly at a place like USC where you can rack up style points pretty easily.
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We all know it's recruiting and coaching. Texas and USC should be able to recruit with a half decent coach, getting a good coach is the missing piece.
OK, after R and C, there isn't much left.
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Perfect gig for Matt Campbell. He'd go 10-2 every year, with one loss to Notre Dame, and one loss that costs him a conference title.
Even though he can't beat his rival
Too bad you don't have any stones you could've made abundle.Now take a deep breath - for 20 minutes 😜
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Perfect gig for Matt Campbell. He'd go 10-2 every year, with one loss to Notre Dame, and one loss that costs him a conference title.
Even though he can't beat his rival, it doesn't matter as much at places where the biggest rivalry game is OOC; as is the case at both Iowa St and USC. His inability to win a conference title is not as big of a deal in the CFP era either, particularly at a place like USC where you can rack up style points pretty easily.
Notes Dame is not SC’s “rival”
and if you can’t win a conference title at SC, they will fire your ass.
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Texas & USC both have huge upside. The problem is they either keep hiring the wrong guys or they keep firing guys too soon.
Nick Saban's, Pete Carroll's, and Urban Meyer's don't grow on trees. You can't realistically compete for a national title year in year out unless you have a guy like that at the helm. I don't care what program you're at. You need insane winners at the top with insane drive to keep it going. Newsflash: those guys are needles in haystacks.
Ryan Day inherited a Ferrari and while I'm still very high on him- looks like they might have a little hiccup this year if they keep giving up 30+ PPG. Clemson was an anomaly and I think after losing two transcendent players at the most important position in sports in Watson & Lawrence they will start to slowly fade to black.
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They can have him. I'm all aboard the Mike Hart bandwagon.
As Michigan head coach?
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As Michigan head coach?
I would be happy af if Harbaugh left and Hart took over. Big believer in Mike Hart. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that these RB's/OL look better than they ever have under Harbaugh. Mike Hart's IQ for the game is next level. It had to be- he was very limited as an athlete. His vision, patience, smarts, and toughness made him one of the greatest RB's to ever play at Michigan. Despite being 5'8, 195 pounds and running a 4.7.
Harbaugh is a booger eating autistic retard weirdo with CTE. He can fk right off.
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Too bad you don't have any stones you could've made abundle.Now take a deep breath - for 20 minutes 😜
Keep me out of the sports betting banter, it's not my thing. I don't give a crap about the over/unders and the Vegas odds and all that boring nonsense. Never have, never will.
Besides. If I ever do start betting on sports, it will be through my local sports book, not some anonymous message board guy whom I have no way of collecting from.
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Isn't this the 2nd or 3rd straight HC they've fired during a season? Is that a good plan?
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Isn't this the 2nd or 3rd straight HC they've fired during a season? Is that a good plan?
3rd straight.
Kiffen after starting 3-2
Sark after starting 3-2
now Helton after starting 1-1
If they mess this next hire up, could be awhile before they recover.
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3rd straight.
Kiffen after starting 3-2
Sark after starting 3-2
now Helton after starting 1-1
If they mess this next hire up, could be awhile before they recover.
And the last two are P5 coaches again. Maybe the problem isn't the coaches?
Aside from Pete Carroll, every coach since the first John Robinson tenure has been mediocre.
Ted Tollner (83-86): 26-20-1
Larry Smith (87-92): 44-25-3
John Robinson Pt. 2 (93-97): 37-21-2
Paul Hackett (98-00): 19-18
Lane Kiffin (10-13): 28-15
Steve Sarkisian (14-15): 12-6
Clay Helton (15-21): 46-24
Kiffin, Sark and Helton were all basically on par with what USC has been for 40 years now, aside from the Pete Carroll years
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Great coaches make great programs, not the other way around.
Nick Saban would've made USC, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan- anywhere he went great. Alabama was wandering in the wilderness before he got there. LSU was a joke before he went there.
USC might have a self-inflated view of itself- but most blueblood/helmet programs do.
I also think the landscape has probably changed on them and they may never be able to recapture glory. LA is a megacity and USC football is an afterthought at best in LA. The campus is smack dab in the hood. Majority of LA doesn't give two shits about USC football. They have trouble selling out their stadium and getting tv ratings even when they're good. They bring in very little revenue compared to the other blue-bloods like OSU, ND, Bama, Texas, Michigan, etc.. Why is revenue important? Well, it's how you pay for top notch coaches & assistants and how you build up state of the art practice & player facilities in that neverending arms race.
The local recruiting talent base is incredible, but with the ease of travel with so many major airports in that area & cheap airfare to cities all over the country- staying home isn't really as important to most players anymore as it once was.
I feel like more and more players today want that kind of game-day atmosphere, college town feel that the other blue-bloods have that USC just doesn't have and never will have. And the facilities as well. Players want the facilities of Alabama, Oregon, OSU, etc.. Facilities that USC doesn't have and never will have.
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for example... top revenue producing college football teams in 2020
1) Texas - $156 million
2) Georgia - $123 million
3) Michigan - $122 million
4) Notre Dame - $116 million
5) Ohio State - $115 million
USC? $50 million.
Texas pulls in 3+x what USC does. When you make a lot more money- you can spend a lot more money on coaches, assistants, support staff, and facilities upgrades.
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Keep me out of the sports betting banter, it's not my thing. I don't give a crap about the over/unders and the Vegas odds and all that boring nonsense. Never have, never will.
Stop popping off after the fact,you have mail
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SoCal fans were all about USC during the Carroll years. But most college football game are bandwagon in SoCal because basically zero (compared to total LA megalopolis population) actually attended either USC or UCLA.
That said, USC's dominant run occurred when there were zero NFL teams in LA. Now there are two... And lots of Raiders fans.
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True, but I still think a highly successful USC would bring out the front-running bandwagoners in droves once again.
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Tom Herman is available.
Really surprised he didn't work out,it' would have beem nice have the Horns back in the mix.On second thought.....
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I would be happy af if Harbaugh left and Hart took over. Big believer in Mike Hart.
Harbaugh is a booger eating autistic retard weirdo with CTE. He can fk right off.
You've made good points this isn't one of them.You've just stated great coaches make great programns. Your AD certainly wouldn't consider giving Hart Harbaugh like numbers.There are better options than a position coach - even a good position coach.Hell it's even a stretch installing accomplished Coordinators - so many with promise have fell by the wayside just in the last few years.Unless he was given a contract loaded with incentives I'm not seeing it
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Great coaches make great programs, not the other way around.
Nick Saban would've made USC, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan- anywhere he went great. Alabama was wandering in the wilderness before he got there. LSU was a joke before he went there.
USC might have a self-inflated view of itself- but most blueblood/helmet programs do.
I also think the landscape has probably changed on them and they may never be able to recapture glory. LA is a megacity and USC football is an afterthought at best in LA. The campus is smack dab in the hood. Majority of LA doesn't give two shits about USC football. They have trouble selling out their stadium and getting tv ratings even when they're good. They bring in very little revenue compared to the other blue-bloods like OSU, ND, Bama, Texas, Michigan, etc.. Why is revenue important? Well, it's how you pay for top notch coaches & assistants and how you build up state of the art practice & player facilities in that neverending arms race.
The local recruiting talent base is incredible, but with the ease of travel with so many major airports in that area & cheap airfare to cities all over the country- staying home isn't really as important to most players anymore as it once was.
I feel like more and more players today want that kind of game-day atmosphere, college town feel that the other blue-bloods have that USC just doesn't have and never will have. And the facilities as well. Players want the facilities of Alabama, Oregon, OSU, etc.. Facilities that USC doesn't have and never will have.
Michigan State too?
I doubt that. A coach like Saban needs to be at a blue blood to have success, in my opinion.
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UM is the coach in my view who had success everywhere (we'll see about the League).
Saban may be more of a high level manager who attracts good assistants and usually lets them do the job. (I know he yells at them.)
I think the Bear was akin to that too.
This recent history of hiring and firing is not conducive.
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Y a Schnellenberger/Johnson caught lightning in a bottle @ Miami as they weren't a blue blood but sat right smack dab in fertile recruiting fields.And the kids didn't have to go far
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recruiters
not gameday coaches
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True, but I still think a highly successful USC would bring out the front-running bandwagoners in droves once again.
Yes, somewhat... But it will be muted as long as the Rams and the Raiders are halfway decent--and both appear to be for the moment.
Then there's the Chargers... They're like the Clippers. Even when they're good, nobody cares.
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I've often asked how long before a Blue Blood becomes ordinary. I don't know the answer of course, I have suggested it's about "five mediocre to bad coaching hires in a row". Now, I'm assuming an "Urban Meyer" type (dime a dozen) could step in and revive said program, maybe, after five bad hires. Maybe.
The Vols are not looking very good obviously, they won't fire their coach this year (probably, without cause), but they are clearly on thin ice.
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I would be happy af if Harbaugh left and Hart took over. Big believer in Mike Hart. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that these RB's/OL look better than they ever have under Harbaugh. Mike Hart's IQ for the game is next level. It had to be- he was very limited as an athlete. His vision, patience, smarts, and toughness made him one of the greatest RB's to ever play at Michigan. Despite being 5'8, 195 pounds and running a 4.7.
Harbaugh is a booger eating autistic retard weirdo with CTE. He can fk right off.
Because I want to make sure I'm reading it right, you mean as a full-time replacement or interim?
I suppose I guessed Michigan would go with a guy who had a less impressive resume than Harbs, but that threadbare a resume would be an interesting choice.
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Michigan State too?
I doubt that. A coach like Saban needs to be at a blue blood to have success, in my opinion.
It's weird to look back at his MSU run. On the one hand, it took five years to get them pretty good. On the other, do we think he would've just dropped back to 7-5 if he stayed. Or would he have kept going?
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USC might have a self-inflated view of itself- but most blueblood/helmet programs do.
I'd say all rather than most. Most fans look at their program's best era and think "we should be there" but obviously all programs can't be at their best at the same time because there are only so many NC's to go around.
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It's weird to look back at his MSU run. On the one hand, it took five years to get them pretty good. On the other, do we think he would've just dropped back to 7-5 if he stayed. Or would he have kept going?
I don't think he would have kept going. Can't recruit to MSU like you can to LSU and Bama.
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SC isn't the diamond in the rough it use to be IMO
I think it is. @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) makes a compelling case by demonstrating that since John Robinson left after the 1982 season they've had 10 coaches and only one had the program at an elite level but I just think that is mostly bad luck. PC had that program recruiting at an unbelievable level. Another high-end coach could do that again.
Another thing to consider is that PC's Achilles heel was random ridiculous upsets:
- 2003: They went 12-1 and outscored their opponents 534-239 but somehow they lost to a Cal team that finished barely over .500. That loss cost them a shot at the BCSNCG.
- 2006: They went 11-2 and outscored their opponents 396-197 but somehow lost to a UCLA team that finished barely over .500. But for that loss they'd have faced tOSU in the BCSNCG instead of Florida.
- 2007: They went 11-2 and outscored their opponents 424-208 but somehow lost to a Stanford team that finished 4-8.
- 2008: They went 12-1 and outscored their opponents 488-117 but lost to an OrSU team that finished 9-4. In OrSU's other games against teams that finished with double-digit wins they got blown out by PSU and Ore and lost to Utah.
These upsets wouldn't have cost them so much if the CFP had been implemented earlier. In PC's nine seasons their final BCS rankings were:
- nr in 2001
- #4 in 2002, quite possibly the best team at the end of the year and might have taken Miami and the tOSU/UGA winner in a hypothetical CFP.
- #3 in 2003, probably the best team but held back by that Cal upset. But for their upset loss to Cal they'd have been #1 and faced OU in the BCSNCG. In a hypothetical CFP they'd have played #2 LSU then the OU/M winner.
- #1 in 2004, won NC.
- #1 in 2005, lost BCSNCG to Texas.
- #5 in 2006 AFTER their upset loss to UCLA. But for their upset loss to UCLA they'd have been #2 and faced tOSU in the BCSNCG.
- #7 in 2007. This was an unusual year in which after 11-1 tOSU at #1 the next six teams had two losses each. But for their upset loss to Stanford they'd have played tOSU in the BCSNCG.
- #5 in 2008. But for their upset loss to OrSU they'd have been 12-0 and ranked #1 and they'd have played Oklahoma in the BCSNCG.
- #24 in 2009, this was a four-loss year.
Those four upsets cost them four BCSNCG appearances and in each of the four the team that they would have played (OU in 2003 and 2008, tOSU in 2006 and 2007) lost the actual BCSNCG.
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Texas is pretty much in the same boat as Nebraska already, and Oklahoma will be in that boat as well once they join the SEC.
I disagree. Texas still recruits at a very high level so a great coach could win almost instantly while Nebraska does not so it would take time to build up a program that could measure up against the best.
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Their last elite year was 2008, right (USC)? That's a long time in football years. I agree Texas is a good coach away from being pretty good and soonish, maybe elite.
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Because I want to make sure I'm reading it right, you mean as a full-time replacement or interim?
I suppose I guessed Michigan would go with a guy who had a less impressive resume than Harbs, but that threadbare a resume would be an interesting choice.
Look I understand it's a reach. I'm just done with the booger eater autistic weirdo, and I don't think they are going to be able to find a more proven "name" or "hot" coach than Harbaugh.
I'd freaking roll the dice on Hart. Call it a hunch. I'm just not betting against that guy, ever. He'll be successful at whatever he does and he'll figure it out.
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recruiters
not gameday coaches
not sure I agree on that.
Ron Zook recruited his ass off at Florida, but he absolutely sucked as an actual coach.
Urban Meyer walks right in and year 2 he wins a title with mostly Zook's guys.
You have to be able to recruit, develop, AND coach. Can't just be good at 1. Have to be good at at least 2 of those. And when you're great at all 3 you get an Urban Meyer or Nick Saban.
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Yes, somewhat... But it will be muted as long as the Rams and the Raiders are halfway decent--and both appear to be for the moment.
Then there's the Chargers... They're like the Clippers. Even when they're good, nobody cares.
Funny you say that, because I have a friend that is from LA originally, he's lived in 3 different states over the last 20+ years and he's still a diehard Raiders fan.
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It's weird to look back at his MSU run. On the one hand, it took five years to get them pretty good. On the other, do we think he would've just dropped back to 7-5 if he stayed. Or would he have kept going?
He took over a dumpster fire at MSU and flipped the script. He was recruiting at a high level snagging elite recruits like Jeff Smoker, Charles Rogers, Plaxico Burress, TJ Duckett, and Julian Peterson. That's just off the top of my head- and those guys were OMGEEERG FIVE STARZZZZ of their era. Everyone of them were big-time national recruits and would be considered "5 Stars" today.
Is MSU recruiting like that right now? Have they been recruiting like that since he left? Hell no.
I think he would've kept it going, but I do know he got sick of being second fiddle in his own state to Michigan. I believe he's even spoken openly about this.
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I don't think he would have kept going. Can't recruit to MSU like you can to LSU and Bama.
Never betting against Nick Saban when it comes to college football. He'd have figured it out imo.
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I don't think he would have kept going. Can't recruit to MSU like you can to LSU and Bama.
You don't have to, since you're only playing Indiana and Rutgers.
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Funny you say that, because I have a friend that is from LA originally, he's lived in 3 different states over the last 20+ years and he's still a diehard Raiders fan.
Raiders fans are a rare breed.
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Dan Patrick says James Franklin and USC have a mutual interest in the Trojans' head coaching job. As far as I know Franklin has not refuted the rumor.
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James Franklin?
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Raiders fans are a rare breed.
I live with one.
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James Franklin?
My mistake. Will correct above. He looks like a Dennis. The Auburn @ PSU line has moved a little towards Auburn.
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Dan Patrick says James Franklin and USC have a mutual interest in the Trojans' head coaching job. As far as I know Franklin has not refuted the rumor.
I dunno the were some primo positions come open in the last few yrs and he didn't leave or wasn't asked.He's a PA. guy to and has established recruiting and H.S ties.The main campus is in the hood and the commute would be a deal breaker but stranger things have happened
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Scott Frost might be interested
he's seems more suited for the PAC
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Would Nebraska be interested in Frost being interested?
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many fans would be
no way to know about the admin or decision makers
but, it's possible
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Stability is important in a program. Can't keep firing coaches. Need 4-5 years to build and change culture.
The transfer portal does no good in achieving this, unfortunately.
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Stability is important in a program. Can't keep firing coaches. Need 4-5 years to build and change culture.
The transfer portal does no good in achieving this, unfortunately.
For real. USC has been very unstable. Fired Kiffin & Sark after only a couple years each I think. Can't do that or you'll never build a winner.
They fired Helton after only 2 games this season, but it was his 7th season there however. If you can't get it done after 7 years....I think you probably deserve to get fired.
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Stability is important in a program. Can't keep firing coaches. Need 4-5 years to build and change culture.
The transfer portal does no good in achieving this, unfortunately.
Counterpoint: that situation might just help out stable teams, like say the one we like. So that’s good.
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For real. USC has been very unstable. Fired Kiffin & Sark after only a couple years each I think. Can't do that or you'll never build a winner.
They fired Helton after only 2 games this season, but it was his 7th season there however. If you can't get it done after 7 years....I think you probably deserve to get fired.
Yeah, but I also think you're gonna have a tough time building a winner keeping Kiffykins and Sark. :57:
Maybe Kiffin has matured and Sark has sobered up, and they're different guys today... But they weren't then.
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They need to adhere to Yogi Berra's stock advice.
But a stock, wait til it goes up, and sell it.
What if it doesn't go up?
Don't buy it.
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You have to keep me in the loop with these tips
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Yeah, but I also think you're gonna have a tough time building a winner keeping Kiffykins and Sark. :57:
Maybe Kiffin has matured and Sark has sobered up, and they're different guys today... But they weren't then.
Oh no doubt that's true. But then it just goes to show they botched those hires in the first place by hiring an immature jerk off and a guy who was struggling with substance abuse. If you're going to pay millions of dollars a year to an employee, best to vet the shit out of him. I would think.