CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Temp430 on September 12, 2021, 08:25:39 AM
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Re-posted this thread as a public service since the original was AWOL.
Local Buckeye fan says, “ season is over.” I greatly doubt that. Playoffs still possible with such an early loss.
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Win your conference at 12-1 and you're in the conversation. The Pac may also be this year, which could be an issue, but then the ACC could be out.
That fourth spot COULD be a 11-2 Oregon and a 12-1 Ohio State, ugh.
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(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65770419.jpg)
Maybe a rematch in the Rose Bowl.
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First, I want to congratulate Oregon and their fans - terrific statement win, for what I think is a very good team. Ohio State didn’t lose this game, Oregon won the game, by being better in every facet of the game.
On the Ohio State side, the defense was very bad, considering the level of athletes, that the Buckeyes had on the field. I believe Kerry Coombs does not possess the coaching chops, to be a successful DC at Ohio State, although he is admittedly a terrific recruiter. The defense doesn’t seem to have a workable scheme, they know they are more talented than most teams, and seem to think that will be enough, in most cases (sometimes it is). Against Oregon, Joe Moorhead (former PSU OC) knew we were going to run press-man coverage, and was exploiting our D mightily, but Ohio State seemed INCAPABLE of playing zone defense (because they don’t know how), and that is an indictment of Kerry Coombs as DC. I didn’t care for him, in his last stint at Ohio State co-DC, and I don’t think he can fix this, because he doesn’t know how (lacks the knowledge).
With regard to the offense, the huge O-Line couldn’t get any push against the opposing D-Line, and consequently couldn’t run the ball, making the offense one dimensional (congratulations again Oregon - good job). I don’t understand why a good, strong Ohio State line with depth couldn’t physically force the issue at times, but they couldn’t. Stroud needs experience, when he gets that, I want him take more initiative in running the ball, when there is nothing there, or the play breaks down (otherwise, this loss isn’t on Stroud). I think he goes into these games with too much nervous energy, wanting to do well, hence the constant throwing high (I think he gets over this issue). The rest of the offense was acceptable.
As a team, the Buckeyes have just been given a huge wake-up call. They haven’t lost any conference games yet, and there is still ample time, for Kerry Coombs to ask people, with more defensive knowledge, how to fix his defense (but they should be searching for his replacement all-season long, and hire someone impressive in the off season, no matter how high his buy-out is). Hopefully they can fix the offensive line issues that prevented them from running on Oregon successfully (do they lack some of the toughness of previous lines?). It is a tall order, given how bad the defense played, but they need to improve, and the immediate schedule allows for that kind of slow growth. Good luck Buckeyes, you have a lot to work on.
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Man, it felt great to be back in the shoe. Even with 10k seats available it got really great day for Football. OSU, hopefully can get a lot of work done to fix mistakes and bad plays on both sides of the ball.
I don't think I've ever seen an OSU game where the Buckeye Defense had 0 impact plays (no sacks, no turnovers, no TFL, no stops on 4th down.) Not Good.
What did the TV guys say about Munford's phantom hold, and the non-targeting call with the Oregon player used the crown of his helmet to knock himself out?
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Everyone is hanging this around the neck of the defense, but when the game was on the line they got two stops, both three and outs, and the offense did nothing.
The offense has looked horrible all season. They have enough athletes that they can periodically break loose and take it to the house, but that doesn't make it a good offense. It isn't.
The special teams are the real problem here. Can the kicker not kick a FG from the 30? If so, then why did they leave so many FGs on the field just to get stuffed on 4th down? Everyone says they had to do this because the D wasn't getting any stops, but it was a 1 TD game so that excuse doesn't wash. That's either coaching or Kicker ineptitude. I lean to the former. Day coached like he couldn't lose to this team, and it bit him in the arse. It reminded me of the NCG game vs Oregon where they were going for two every TD like they did all year in the PAC 12, but it wasn't working against OSU and they had to scrap it, but by then it was too late.
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Certainly the offense may carry them through the conference. But this team has no chance at a national championship.
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Certainly the offense may carry them through the conference. But this team has no chance at a national championship.
You can say that for all but ONE team right now.
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First, I want to congratulate Oregon and their fans - terrific statement win, for what I think is a very good team. Ohio State didn’t lose this game, Oregon won the game, by being better in every facet of the game.
On the Ohio State side, the defense was very bad, considering the level of athletes, that the Buckeyes had on the field. I believe Kerry Coombs does not possess the coaching chops, to be a successful DC at Ohio State, although he is admittedly a terrific recruiter.
Yup stated exactly that in the game thread.Someone on 11W said Coombs should be fired after the game,someone else chimed in no by half time.It's seems the LB corp has been pedestrian the last 2-3 years bolstered by good line play.But adjustments were not being made.He has Ed Warriner written all over him - great position coach but coordinating all different positions and improving schemes is not his forte but unfortunately a must.Day didn't help things out by pressing the panic button way to early going for 4th & short twice when FG's would have been just fine.When the other squad has the momentum you have to come away with points.At the end of the 3rd it very easily could have been 28-20,much better than the actual 28-14.Hopefully lessons learned and good luck to the Ducks
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gotta convert a 4th and short
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Never been a fan of that specially in the 1st 3qtrs unless getting curbstomped or have a bad kicker
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I grew up with the power run option offense
own the trenches
don't let a soccer player decide the game
a simple QB sneak will many times work
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You take the points.
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It was a warm afternoon and it seemed like Day was sending the boys deep too often.Pretty gassed by the 4th.Listened to most of it watched a little not sure why they didn't go underneath more,could have been the Ducks forcing that but with the stable of WRs that would seem foolish.Proctor getting carted off can't help what seems like questionable DBs though Denzel Burke had a decent game
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Certainly the offense may carry them through the conference. But this team has no chance at a national championship.
I think I could cogently argue that Ohio State's last two teams to win national championships looked worse, at points, than they did yesterday.
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I think I could cogently argue that Ohio State's last two teams to win national championships looked worse, at points, than they did yesterday.
I mean maybe. Defense is harder. But they've already given up over 30 points twice (in two games), and it certainly wasn't a fluke. Compare to the 02 team, which gave up 30 zero times and only 20 twice. The 14 team gave up 30 3 times, over 15 games. They were bad defensively the first game, but they were on the road, and missing some guys. Then they come home, get their guys back, and were even worse.
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All three phases of the game were absolutely abysmal.
The offensive play calling was as horrendous as anything else, it was just masked by having athletes that are good enough to occasionally squirt loose and take it to the house in spite of the woefully inept scheming.
The turf monster led Oregon in tackles. OSU was slipping and sliding all over the place, in their own stadium.
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Some SOC thoughts on the Buckeyes:
LBs are pretty rough this year, but why do people say they were bad other years? LBs were very good in 2019 and 2020. For all the hate that Tuf Borland got, he probably would've prevented the 77 yard run and also stopped the frustrating run left run left offense in the red zone. Run defense was good last year. Right now this defense is like 2018 where they can't stop anything and give up many huge plays.
CBs are extremely encouraging. Between Watts, Brown, and especially Burke, the Buckeyes are going to be very good. They will also hopefully get Banks back at some point. Please don't play Legend Cevajos in important spots though. He is not ready.
Safety/Bullet will be a work in progress. I like Ransom, but Proctor may be out for awhile and Shaw flashes sometimes, but was a key offender on the 77 yard run. If we have to play Hooker....ugh kill me.
DLine is worse than I thought. Harrison and Smith generated no pressure. Garrett was fine, but we are obviously missing Togiai. Probably need to increase PT for JTT and Sawyer. JTT made some plays when he was in there.
Stroud is a 16 year old being given the keys to a Mercedes. It is pretty scary to watch. I think he will be pretty good eventually and probably just have to take the good with the bad. Probably the most infuriating thing to me is Stroud scrambling out of a clean pocket for no reason. That can be coached out of him eventually.
OLine was pretty disappointing. Maybe having 4 tackles on one line isn't going to work out very well. Seemed to have costly penalties that killed drives. Dewand Jones had a back to earth game with 2 painful false starts. I'm curious if they should shift Matt Jones back into the starting line-up, but that is probably an overreaction.
What is up with the field? Players on both sides slipping a lot.
Refs were pretty upsetting. Did they call any PI either way? I guess they just decided they were going to pretend that rule didn't exist. Also targeting desperately needs to be reworked and rethought. It has become a farce like the NFL pass interference reviews a few years ago. Or the NFL's survive the ground rule. There is no consistency and no one can say what is targeting. It's just a coin flip at this point.
Anyhow, fix the field please. Hopefully a lot of the other problems will get fixed during these 2 get right games. I'm also now changing Rutgers from a 3rd get right game to a tough opponent.
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I mean maybe. Defense is harder. But they've already given up over 30 points twice (in two games), and it certainly wasn't a fluke. Compare to the 02 team, which gave up 30 zero times and only 20 twice. The 14 team gave up 30 3 times, over 15 games. They were bad defensively the first game, but they were on the road, and missing some guys. Then they come home, get their guys back, and were even worse.
I'd agree the 2002 title team was never this rough defensively, but had some rough games on offense. The 2014 defense looked rough against Cincy, less super than I remembered against MSU and not the best vs. IU. Weirdly, that defense was somewhat good vs VT in the loss, though that era of VT offenses was bad.
The stats out of Minnesota are less bad than I thought. But still not lockdown. I wouldn't expect them to win the title, but that's far more about the top favorite than anything else.
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As a Michigan fan it was entertaining to watch the Ducks upset the Buckeyes at home. However, I know Ohio State will figure things out quickly and look like a national championship contender in a couple weeks, certainly by November.
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I've made my comments on the D, it was awful.
What stands out to me about the offense is how woefully inefficient they were in terms of yards per score. Stroud had 484 yards passing and a QBR of 81.4. The team gained over 600 yards of total offense but somehow only scored 28 points.
Why?
First, Oregon didn't give up and Ohio State didn't force any short fields. The Ducks had zero turnovers so pretty much every tOSU drive started deep in their own territory. The Bucks' four TD's came on their four longest drives which were all 70+ yards (70, 73, 75, 75) so nothing came easy. The Buckeyes next five longest drives were all 42-67 yards which is good but they resulted in a grand combined total of ZERO points which is obviously bad:
- tOSU's 8th possession went for 67 yards but they failed on a 4th and 2 at the Oregon 8.
- tOSU's 6th possession went for 62 yards but they ran out of time before halftime.
- tOSU's 2nd possession went for 61 yards but they punted on 4th and 11 from the Oregon 34, this would have been a 51 yard FG.
- tOSU's first possession went for 44 yards but they failed on a 4th and 7 at the Oregon 31, this would have been a 48 yard FG.
- tOSU's 5th possession went for 42 yards but they failed on a 4th and 2 at the Oregon 39, this would have been about a 56 yard FG.
Do the Buckeyes have a FG kicker who can connect regularly from ~50 yards? Making the chip-shot from the Oregon 2 and going 1/2 on the ~50 yard FG's from the Oregon 34 and 31 would have made it a 2 point game after tOSU's last TD resulting in a 2 PT Conversion try that could have forced OT.
Surprisingly given how many times tOSU gave up relatively short fields it didn't seem to impact things much. Oregon's five TD's came on drives of 99, 84, 75, 73, and 65 yards.
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So I was out of town and not able to watch this game. I was getting text updates and of course when I return home on Sunday read quite a bit about the game.
Last night I found the entire game on YouTube and watched it and then again this morning before work and specifically watched a number of plays repeatedly. Based on what I heard and read it wasn’t exactly what I expected when I watch the game.
Some observations: (if anything I say here sounds like an excuse, please disregard it because it is not intended that way at all.)
1. Ohio State ran the ball fairly effectively. I was under the impression they didn’t. With five minutes left in the first half and the score tied at seven Ohio State had effectively the same amount of rushing yards that Oregon did. Later in the game they ran effectively but chose or were forced to run less often. They averaged 5 yards a carry which is pretty darn good.
2. Stroud had a very solid game. He was mostly extremely accurate and pretty well protected until very late in the game when he received his only real sack and that was a coverage sack. Between the offensive production via the running game, which Oregon was focused on, and the pass protection which was excellent virtually all game, the offensive line had a very nice job on Saturday.
3. Much happened early that ended up being big plays in the game. Two long and good Ohio State drives ended with third down passes that were caught and then dropped. Each were great throws, would’ve been first downs, would’ve put Ohio State inside the red zone, but give Oregon credit because in both cases the receiver was hit after making the catch and did not hold on. That ended up being a big deal because it didn’t allow Ohio State to use their offensive calling card -which is the other team never knows if they’re going to run or pass and force them to be more pass focused.
One of Strouds few off target throws came at a critical time- On their attempted game tying touchdown Dr. he slightly over threw an easy touchdown pass to a wide-open Garrett Wilson.
4. So much criticism of the players on Ohio State’s defense but I have to be honest and say a lot of it is not deserved at all. Never have I seen that many plays run into the boundary side of the field, which Oregon did almost exclusively all day long. Joe Moorehead personified.
I don’t know what the percentage is but usually 60 or 70% of plays in the college game or run to the field side and I’m guessing that in this game 90% if not more were run to the boundary side. Why that’s important is that’s the weakness that got exposed early in the game.
Ohio State was not sealing the edge to the boundary side and four of Oregon’s five touchdowns came on either a run or a fake run pass to that side of the field. Contrary to what I read Ohio State did make one adjustment late in the second quarter. The defensive and had been crashing down all game and Oregon had been formation wise putting triple to the field. That forces the Defense to tilt to the field side. When you do that you need your defensive and to move up field and Seal - but they did not crash down and Oregon took advantage of the fact that Ohio State was not doing that.
It’s literally embarrassing that they did not make an adjustment until the second quarter late, and for a while it worked. But then they used that against Ohio State for the long 77 yard touchdown run in the third quarter by simply putting a tight end in motion and dragging the one linebacker who would fill the A gap with him. It left a hole you could drive a truck through.
It forced Ohio State to go back to their standard defensive scheme and then re-exposed that boundary side for additional yardage and big plays later in the game. Just a horrible coaching game and lack of preparation which is on Ryan day and the coaches. I can’t believe they didn’t move to a cover 2 or even a cover 3–but they didn’t.
With that one exception Ohio State was actually stuffing the run very well in the middle of the field. So because they did not make an adjustment Oregon just kept attacking the boundary side whenever they needed critical first down or decent size gain in the passing gain.
5. I have heard a lot of complaints about the lack of pressure on the quarterback for Oregon but after watching the game I understand it because he either rolled out or got rid of the ball immediately with very few exceptions. Later in the game he did have a few drop backs and they actually did get a little bit of pressure on him but by this time they were so off-balance because they could not stop that simple boundary side running play.
6. Despite the poor defensive showing particularly as far as scheme, Ohio state still had numerous chances to win the game late and there were several very questionable calls which may or may not have been accurate but certainly impacted the game. Both of them took away first downs for Ohio State and basically ended up being Dr. killers. The defense actually came through with some great performance near the end of the game when it counted the most.
As a fan of this team I actually feel better having watched it because there is good news and bad news.
The good news is despite playing poorly on defense this team looks like they could hang with anybody and the other good news is, they need a few tweaks to their scheme defensively and they need a few tweaks to their ability to disguise their scheme.
The bad news is I don’t have faith that the defensive coaching staff will make those tweaks. On the other hand Ryan day will look at this film and if the defensive staff does not make the necessary tweaks I think he will.
Lastly let’s take our hats off to Oregon. They were crisp, energetic, had fantastic execution and played hard from start to finish.
They had a fantastic game plan and even better in game adjustments even if it only required a few.
I think a really good defensive coach could take the existing players and their base defense and with a few small adjustments make them one of the better defenses in the country. The players are way better than a lot of the fans are giving them credit for but the coaching staff deserves all of the ripping that’s coming at them. It’s almost like they didn’t properly prepare for Oregon, well Oregon was very very prepared.
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kind of surprised that Zach Harrison hasn't turned out to be a Joey/Nick Bosa or Chase Young type. He's got more athletic ability than any of them. Thinking that talk of him in HS that he was a freak athlete but not much else might be true. It happens. Some guys are freakish athletes but can't play the game at a high level.
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kind of surprised that Zach Harrison hasn't turned out to be a Joey/Nick Bosa or Chase Young type. He's got more athletic ability than any of them. Thinking that talk of him in HS that he was a freak athlete but not much else might be true. It happens. Some guys are freakish athletes but can't play the game at a high level.
I wouldn’t write him off just yet. He had a game impacting strip sack against Minnesota last week and if you watch the game film Oregon did a nice job of optioning around him in this particular game. He was the crashing defensive end they schemed around.
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I wouldn’t write him off just yet. He had a game impacting strip sack against Minnesota last week and if you watch the game film Oregon did a nice job of optioning around him in this particular game. He was the crashing defensive end they schemed around.
Not writing him off. It could still happen, he's only a true junior. He's got 90% of this season left and another season next year to live up to the hype.