CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: fezzador on September 21, 2020, 05:58:18 PM
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Virginia won its first in 2019, but I'm not sure if they were the best never to have won it all prior to that season. One of the better programs, but there are probably 4-5 others I would have put before the Cavaliers at the very least.
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Per some stat I found, Illinois edges out Purdue, so that's what I went with.
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I wouldn't know
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I’ll go with Temple. Most wins without a title. Chaney took them to five Elite 8’s between 88-01. Never could get them to a FF though. Reached two FF in the 50s though.
WVU could be on this list. Similar resume to most of the teams. 30 NCAA appearances, 2 FF, top 25 in wins. Literally came within one point in the 1959 title game.
I think if you add football and basketball wins WVU has the most without a championship in either sport. I won’t swear to it but I think that is correct.
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Dayton could have won it last year. But then the season got cancelled.
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My gut says Purdue, based on the list. Awful lot of conference banners.
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I chose Purdue, but considered Illinois, Texas, and Temple.
Would an old Big East team like St. John's or Seton Hall warrant inclusion? They're irrelevant now, but mattered a lot back in the day. I don't know enough about basketball history to know for sure, though.
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I went with Purdue myself - they have had lots of outstanding regular seasons, but for some reason or another, just couldn't finish the job in the tournament.
I'm not exactly surprised that Gonzaga isn't getting much love here - they're not in a P5 conference, nor have they ever been in a P5 or a P5-equivalent conference. On top of that, they're definitely a Johnny-come-lately that had only modest success prior to the late 90s. But they've been on an absolute tear the past decade or so, and have legitimately been able to go toe-to-toe with programs like Kentucky, UNC, Kansas, and the like and be at least competitive.
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Texas isn't a basketball school so I couldn't pick us. Although I'd certainly love to see the team win the NC, of course.
I had no idea Purdue hadn't won it, that's really surprising. I picked them.
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Most NCAA tourney wins without a title:
- t1. Oklahoma - 42 (t19th overall)
- t1. Purdue - 42 (t19th)
- 3. Illinois - 40 (23rd)
- 4. Notre Dame - 38 (t24th)
- 5. Kansas State - 37 (t28th)
- 6. Texas - 35 (t30th)
- t7. Gonzaga - 34 (t32nd)
- t7. Memphis - 34 (t32nd)
- 9. Temple - 33 (t34th)
- 10. West Virginia - 31 (36th)
Fewest NCAA tournament wins for a team with a title (aside from CCNY who is now D3)? Holy Cross with 8. Tournament only had 8 teams, and Holy Cross won 3 games to take the title in 1947. They also won two games in 1948 (although one was a consolation game) and 1953. They have lost 10 of their 11 games since beating Wake Forest in the 1953 Sweet Sixteen, with the lone win being a play in win for the 16 seed against Southern in 2016, before getting slammed by Oregon in the 1-16 game. They did give a series of scares as a in a 2-15 against Kentucky in 2001, 1-17 against Kansas in 2002, 3-14 against Marquette in 2003, and 4-13 against Southern Illinois in 2007, but fell just short each time.
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I have a feeling that Medina is whipping up a masterpiece as we speak.
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Looking forward to Purdue getting off this list.
Problem is that Purdue, as always, is perennially snakebit.
Back in the Big Dog years we looked like monsters, and in 1994 as a 1 seed, due to a supposed injury from Big Dog wrestling another player while screwing around in the locker room (???) he hurt his back the night before the Elite Eight game and we missed the Final Four.
2010 we had Hummel tear his ACL in a loss late in the season at Minnesota when we were I believe #3 in the nation and #1 and #2 lost that week. It was a monster team that had a shot at the title. Would have likely been a 1 seed with him healthy, and without him we dropped to a 4 seed but still made the Sweet Sixteen before losing to #1 seed Duke.
2011 we were coming into the season for Hummel's glorious return where he'd still be paired up with E'Twaun Moore and JaJuan Johnson for their final season and during the first day of practice (which was during the Purdue/Minnesota football game) it was reported he'd torn the ACL again. That team still played well and earned a 3 seed in the tourney, but it was the year of Virginia Commonwealth tearing through everyone on their way to the final four, and Purdue lost to VCU.
2018 we were a 2 seed when Cal State Fullerton proved "the bigger they are, the harder they fall", dragging Isaac Haas to the ground and breaking his elbow. That team was a matchup nightmare for everyone, but without Haas--and particularly losing him IN the tournament, we only made the S16.
2019 we has Carsen go thermonuclear during the tournament, just lighting the world up [with a hell of an assist from Ryan Cline, particularly in the S16 game against Tennessee]. In the Elite Eight game we had the lead as the clock hit 00:00, but due to a CRAZY turn of events Virginia was able to get a circus shot off before the buzzer to tie, and Purdue lost in OT.
F it man... After typing that, I need a goddamn drink. Ugh that it's only 8:21 AM :-(
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What made Purdue's run really impressive is that Gene Keady had to serve as both head coach and mascot.
(https://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2014/11/15/041d0c08-34e0-4d78-8f8d-e63697eef1cd/resize/620x465/3a9f53a1898d7820534e453143a34620/mascots-purdue-141590622.jpg)(https://purduesports.com/images/2020/3/31/0405GeneKeadyAction1.jpg)
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Looking forward to Purdue getting off this list.
Problem is that Purdue, as always, is perennially snakebit.
Back in the Big Dog years we looked like monsters, and in 1994 as a 1 seed, due to a supposed injury from Big Dog wrestling another player while screwing around in the locker room (???) he hurt his back the night before the Elite Eight game and we missed the Final Four.
2010 we had Hummel tear his ACL in a loss late in the season at Minnesota when we were I believe #3 in the nation and #1 and #2 lost that week. It was a monster team that had a shot at the title. Would have likely been a 1 seed with him healthy, and without him we dropped to a 4 seed but still made the Sweet Sixteen before losing to #1 seed Duke.
2011 we were coming into the season for Hummel's glorious return where he'd still be paired up with E'Twaun Moore and JaJuan Johnson for their final season and during the first day of practice (which was during the Purdue/Minnesota football game) it was reported he'd torn the ACL again. That team still played well and earned a 3 seed in the tourney, but it was the year of Virginia Commonwealth tearing through everyone on their way to the final four, and Purdue lost to VCU.
2018 we were a 2 seed when Cal State Fullerton proved "the bigger they are, the harder they fall", dragging Isaac Haas to the ground and breaking his elbow. That team was a matchup nightmare for everyone, but without Haas--and particularly losing him IN the tournament, we only made the S16.
2019 we has Carsen go thermonuclear during the tournament, just lighting the world up [with a hell of an assist from Ryan Cline, particularly in the S16 game against Tennessee]. In the Elite Eight game we had the lead as the clock hit 00:00, but due to a CRAZY turn of events Virginia was able to get a circus shot off before the buzzer to tie, and Purdue lost in OT.
F it man... After typing that, I need a goddamn drink. Ugh that it's only 8:21 AM :-(
Lmao. I feel your pain. That is a seriously bad run of luck. The story about Robinson reminds me of a similar story I know of regarding WVU’s basketball team.
I know a dude who transferred in as an invited walk on back in the late 90s. One day after practice he and another player were horsing around in the locker room. The other guy put him in a figure four leglock and accidentally broke his leg, effectively ending his basketball career.
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Gonzaga basketball = Boise State football
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Gonzaga basketball = Boise State football
Gonzaga basketball is way better. They've made runs toward a national title, including a Final 4. Boise State won a couple of exhibition games they got into as the tallest midget.
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Gonzaga basketball is way better. They've made runs toward a national title, including a Final 4. Boise State won a couple of exhibition games they got into as the tallest midget.
Yeah, it's a lot easier to be an overachiever in basketball. You don't need a roster of 85 scholarship players recruited against all the big boys...
And unlike the CFB post-season, you get just as large of a stage to build your reputation in the NCAAT as any big program.
I remember in the late 90's when I first started following CFB, every year at tournament time the name Gonzaga kept coming up, and I didn't know what the F a Gonzaga was, where the school was located, or anything other than they seemed to always make the tourney and be a thorn in other teams' sides when they got there.
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Illinois might not be as consistently good as Purdue, but they seem to have the higher ceiling. Some of those Bill Self teams were ridiculously star studded.
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And don't forget the Bruce Almighty team that made the championship game in '05.
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Gonzaga basketball is way better. They've made runs toward a national title, including a Final 4. Boise State won a couple of exhibition games they got into as the tallest midget.
Gonzaga basketball got equal footing every year in March. The football team was routinely left out of the party.
Anyone who runs a lot of time-frame 'best record' searches would agree with me. There's Boise, in the top 3 every time, mucking up your data.
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Gonzaga basketball got equal footing every year in March. The football team was routinely left out of the party.
Anyone who runs a lot of time-frame 'best record' searches would agree with me. There's Boise, in the top 3 every time, mucking up your data.
It's hard to compare, because Boise doesn't have a way to play themselves in. But aside from those January 1 exhibition wins, what have they really done in like a decade? They've just been a consistently great mid-major, who has failed to step up to any more. College basketball has those types. VCU and San Diego State come to mind. Consistently top end mid majors, who peak as a top 10-15ish team, but Gonzaga can go toe to toe with anyone, in recruiting too.
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It's hard to compare, because Boise doesn't have a way to play themselves in. But aside from those January 1 exhibition wins, what have they really done in like a decade? They've just been a consistently great mid-major, who has failed to step up to any more. College basketball has those types. VCU and San Diego State come to mind. Consistently top end mid majors, who peak as a top 10-15ish team, but Gonzaga can go toe to toe with anyone, in recruiting too.
The problem with a team like Boise is that they can't establish credibility to get a seat at the table because they haven't won anything. But the reason they don't have an opportunity to prove that they CAN win anything is that they're not given a seat at the table. Which because they haven't won anything is then used as an excuse to never give them a seat at the table.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Especially when you refer to those "January 1 exhibition wins" and guys like OAM discount those wins because clearly Alabama just wasn't motivated that day. So even when they DO win something, people say they've won nothing.
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The problem with a team like Boise is that they can't establish credibility to get a seat at the table because they haven't won anything. But the reason they don't have an opportunity to prove that they CAN win anything is that they're not given a seat at the table. Which because they haven't won anything is then used as an excuse to never give them a seat at the table.
Self-fulfilling prophecy.
Especially when you refer to those "January 1 exhibition wins" and guys like OAM discount those wins because clearly Alabama just wasn't motivated that day. So even when they DO win something, people say they've won nothing.
I agree. And FTR, I'm for an 8 team model where that best Go5 team gets a bid.
But really it's been a minute. They beat a 10-4 Arizona team in the Fiesta Bowl 6 years ago.
Is that their best win over a P5 team in the past decade? Seems like they were on the cusp there in like 2011, but then they've whiffed a little bit since.
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I agree. And FTR, I'm for an 8 team model where that best Go5 team gets a bid.
But really it's been a minute. They beat a 10-4 Arizona team in the Fiesta Bowl 6 years ago.
Is that their best win over a P5 team in the past decade? Seems like they were on the cusp there in like 2011, but then they've whiffed a little bit since.
The shine came off, to be sure. Once they lost Petersen it faded.
Gonzaga has had Mark Few for over 20 years now... He could probably have nearly any job he wanted, but I suppose he's happy doing what he's doing.
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And don't forget the Bruce Almighty team that made the championship game in '05.
Aw yes.
The Illini's Larry Coker, minus the NC.
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Aw yes.
The Illini's Larry Coker, minus the NC.
It’s hard to make that comparison when a school has never won a NC. I’m not a big Weber fan but he took them further than anyone else has.
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It’s hard to make that comparison when a school has never won a NC. I’m not a big Weber fan but he took them further than anyone else has.
Lou Henson probably had the best team in the nation in '89, he just picked the wrong 1 of 3 to lose to UM.
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Especially when you refer to those "January 1 exhibition wins" and guys like OAM discount those wins because clearly Alabama just wasn't motivated that day. So even when they DO win something, people say they've won nothing.
Hey, I wasn't the one who pitted Boise vs TCU that one year. That was messed up, and everyone knew it.
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Hey, I wasn't the one who pitted Boise vs TCU that one year. That was messed up, and everyone knew it.
Agreed.
I was just mentioning that ELA called them "exhibitions" like those games meant nothing, and you've discounted those wins because the helmet team wasn't motivated.
There's an inherent assumption that Boise just doesn't belong, so by nature people with that assumption have to find ways to discount the games where they were trying to show they can belong.
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It’s hard to make that comparison when a school has never won a NC. I’m not a big Weber fan but he took them further than anyone else has.
Well looking it up, I was a little off, as Weber had a bit of a resurgence with his own recruits that eluded Coker. But not nearly as much postseason success.
When Coker took over at Da U he inherited a monster Butch Davis roster loaded with future NFL talent. As each class graduated, there was a little bit of a drop off.
-2001 He ran the table and won a NC. Then he lost a Butch Davis class.
-2002 He ran the table again, but lost to OSU in the NCG. Then he lost another Butch Davis class.
-2003 You might not remember because it was a long time ago, but they went 11-2 and finished #5 with an Orange Bowl win. So they were still pretty elite, but then he lost another Butch Davis class.
-2004 and 2005 Went 9-3 both years, finishing #11 in 04 with a Peach Bowl win and #17/18 in 05 with a Peach Bowl loss. But he lost the final remnants of the Butch Davis recruits over those two seasons.
-2006 First year with an entire roster of Larry Coker recruits. Went 7-5 and lost his job. fwiw he won the MPC Computers bowl.
Bruce Weber started on a similar trajectory, but then had a pretty good year with his own roster in 09, but then slid back downhill after that.
-2004 Big Ten Title, but knocked out in the Sweet 16
-2005 Won all but two games; OSU and the NCG. Amazing run.
-2006 2nd in the Big Ten, but then knocked out in the Thirsty 32. (oh yes I did)
-2007 Won 23 games, but then knocked out in the opening round.
-2008 Finished under .500.
-2009 Resurgence. 24 wins and a second place Big Ten finish, but then lost in the opening round.
-2010 21 wins. NIT Quarterfinals.
-2011 20 wins. Bounced in the Thirsty 32.
-2012 Went 17-15, and lost his job.
Both programs have been in shambles ever since. A decent season here and there, but shells of their former... Selfs.
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Lou Henson probably had the best team in the nation in '89, he just picked the wrong 1 of 3 to lose to UM.
This right here
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Agreed.
I was just mentioning that ELA called them "exhibitions" like those games meant nothing, and you've discounted those wins because the helmet team wasn't motivated.
There's an inherent assumption that Boise just doesn't belong, so by nature people with that assumption have to find ways to discount the games where they were trying to show they can belong.
To be specific, the "letdown" is more about the team who's elite season goals were lost in the previous, regular season-ending game. It has little to do with the opponent in the bowl.
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Most NCAA tourney wins without a title:
- t1. Oklahoma - 42 (t19th overall)
- t1. Purdue - 42 (t19th)
- 3. Illinois - 40 (23rd)
- 4. Notre Dame - 38 (t24th)
- 5. Kansas State - 37 (t28th)
- 6. Texas - 35 (t30th)
- t7. Gonzaga - 34 (t32nd)
- t7. Memphis - 34 (t32nd)
- 9. Temple - 33 (t34th)
- 10. West Virginia - 31
I voted Purdue but I was worried that it might have been B1G bias on my part. This makes me feel better about them as my pick. I'm not saying that this list is the end-all-be-all only factor, but it is a big factor to me. I'd tiebreak Purdue over Oklahoma just because I think of Purdue as more of a BB power than Oklahoma but I admit that is totally subjective.
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I have a feeling that Medina is whipping up a masterpiece as we speak.
Sorry, no. Medina has been busy, I am happy to announce that there is a brand new Buckeye in Medina. My wife and I had a daughter last Thursday!
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Sorry, no. Medina has been busy, I am happy to announce that there is a brand new Buckeye in Medina. My wife and I had a daughter last Thursday!
Sounds like you got busy...
...'bout 9 months ago.
Congrats!