CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on November 28, 2017, 05:47:04 PM
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https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/935578907088220165
Let me first say I get it, I do. I will never blame a player for that decision, and I don't think they owe the school a damn thing. If it were my teammate I wouldn't love it, but that's between them.
But from a fan perspective and a health of the bowl system perspective I hate it. I don't know what the solution is though. I've seen people throw out that you could allow redshirted players to play to offset it.
I will say, people are calling the bowl games just exhibitions anyway. I guess, but if we are calling all non CFP games exhibitions, what are late season games for all teams outside about the top 10? Bowl games count towards your record. What was MSU-Rutgers if not an exhibition game? Neither team was in the CFP discussion, MSU was already going to a bowl, and there was nothing Rutgers could do to become bowl eligible. He'll, what was different about the OSU game for UM players than a Holiday Bowl would be? I guess my point is, after the loss to OSU, I don't see how the remaining games for MSU were any less of an exhibition than whatever bowl they go to.
And last year it's was studs, 1st rounders, playing the position where wear and tear is the worst, running back. One of these kids is a safety with a 6th round grade. If that kind of kid is skipping the bowl, who isn't?
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there's a big difference between a non CFP bowl game like the Alamo or Holiday vs a conference game. MSU-Rutgers was a conference game. M-OSU is always important NO MATTER the records. That's like the entire season. That's what they come to Michigan or Ohio State for.
#1 goal should always be to win your conference. Players have a responsibility to play the season out, try to win the conference.
When it comes to bowl games, unless it's a big-time bowl like the Rose or a CFP- can't say I blame them for sitting out.
Look at Jake Butt. He had an ACL tear his soph. season. He played the bowl game vs FSU which honestly- didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Tore the same ACL he had torn couple years back- cost him dearly in the draft. He was probably a 2nd round pick if he doesn't injure that knee. Slips all the way to the 5th. That had to have cost him a million or more. That's real money in his pocket that should be there that isn't.
Can't play with your future. If you're getting grades as a 1st or 2nd rounder, and you're coming out that draft, I say sit.
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https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/935578907088220165
Let me first say I get it, I do. I will never blame a player for that decision, and I don't think they owe the school a damn thing. If it were my teammate I wouldn't love it, but that's between them.
But from a fan perspective and a health of the bowl system perspective I hate it. I don't know what the solution is though. I've seen people throw out that you could allow redshirted players to play to offset it.
I will say, people are calling the bowl games just exhibitions anyway. I guess, but if we are calling all non CFP games exhibitions, what are late season games for all teams outside about the top 10? Bowl games count towards your record. What was MSU-Rutgers if not an exhibition game? Neither team was in the CFP discussion, MSU was already going to a bowl, and there was nothing Rutgers could do to become bowl eligible. He'll, what was different about the OSU game for UM players than a Holiday Bowl would be? I guess my point is, after the loss to OSU, I don't see how the remaining games for MSU were any less of an exhibition than whatever bowl they go to.
And last year it's was studs, 1st rounders, playing the position where wear and tear is the worst, running back. One of these kids is a safety with a 6th round grade. If that kind of kid is skipping the bowl, who isn't?
Who isn't skipping? Underclassmen with plans to return and need the practice/playing time to hone their skills and/or impress their coaches. And in a healthy program, there should be plenty of those types of players at season's end. Even when seniors (or juniors planning to enter the draft) play in bowl games, a lot of the time they come back to bowl practice out of shape and unable or unwilling to put enough on the line to make a difference. That part at least, is nothing new, it's gone on for decades. And that's in a HEALTHY program, which Texas is not right now. Both of these guys also had problems in the locker room and have been called out previously by their teammates.
Texas is a crappy 6-6 team destined for a crappy bowl. I don't have any interest in watching my crappy team play in a crappy bowl, and I don't blame any of the crappy players on that crappy team for not wanting to play in a crappy bowl, either. They ARE exhibitions. They have ALWAYS been exhibitions, aside from a handful that might involve MNC implications. That's not meant to belittle them, it's simply the truth and the basis of their origin-- they were created as post-season exhibition games to reward the teams and the fans for a good season, and it wasn't until the mid 60s that the national polls became extended to the postseason. And the massive proliferation of worthless bowls pitting 6-6 or even 5-7 teams against one another has only harmed the overall system.
Anyway, I guess it sucks for the fans, but honestly nobody's watching these lower tier bowl games anyway. The stadiums don't come close to selling out, their TV ratings are abysmal. There's really no point, other than some nostalgic desire to cling to an antiquated system.
Just my opinion of course.
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My P.O.V. hasn't changed.This discussion came up last year before the bowls.I thought if they weren't playing in a major bowl or playoff - sit.Then Jake Butt and a couple of others went down.This is why I think the playoffs should not be extended or expanded.Not only that it makes the season count.
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I think the idea of letting redshirts play in bowl games would offset it and potentially add more fan interest for non-CFP teams.
I'll care about Ohio State's bowl either way but if they end up in a non CFP game with a bunch of seniors not playing the thing that would redeem it for me would be to see the future of the Buckeyes by getting to see the redshirts play.
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Immediately after the season, colleges should issue a bowl game signup sheet.
If any player refuses to sign it, their "scholarship" and all team privileges are immediately revoked.
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https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/935578907088220165
Let me first say I get it, I do. I will never blame a player for that decision, and I don't think they owe the school a damn thing. If it were my teammate I wouldn't love it, but that's between them.
But from a fan perspective and a health of the bowl system perspective I hate it. I don't know what the solution is though. I've seen people throw out that you could allow redshirted players to play to offset it.
I will say, people are calling the bowl games just exhibitions anyway. I guess, but if we are calling all non CFP games exhibitions, what are late season games for all teams outside about the top 10? Bowl games count towards your record. What was MSU-Rutgers if not an exhibition game? Neither team was in the CFP discussion, MSU was already going to a bowl, and there was nothing Rutgers could do to become bowl eligible. He'll, what was different about the OSU game for UM players than a Holiday Bowl would be? I guess my point is, after the loss to OSU, I don't see how the remaining games for MSU were any less of an exhibition than whatever bowl they go to.
And last year it's was studs, 1st rounders, playing the position where wear and tear is the worst, running back. One of these kids is a safety with a 6th round grade. If that kind of kid is skipping the bowl, who isn't?
I'm with you. I get it, but I hate it. I know there is a business side to sports but that's not the reason I watch. I don't know if there is a solution.
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Immediately after the season, colleges should issue a bowl game signup sheet.
If any player refuses to sign it, their "scholarship" and all team privileges are immediately revoked.
So they sign it before the season and then when the bowl game comes they say, "Hey coach, I'm really sorry but my agent says..." What are the consequences?
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I don't like it, but I acknowledge that there isn't anything that can be done about it.
Any attempt to punish players will simply result in phantom injuries, as was most likely the case with Peppers.
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Immediately after the season, colleges should issue a bowl game signup sheet.
If any player refuses to sign it, their "scholarship" and all team privileges are immediately revoked.
this is one of the worst ideas I've ever read. No. Just no.
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I don't like it, but I acknowledge that there isn't anything that can be done about it.
Any attempt to punish players will simply result in phantom injuries, as was most likely the case with Peppers.
Peppers absolutely made the right decision. He was a 1st round pick. Let's say he plays that game and tears up his knee. Would've cost himself millions.
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I think the idea of letting redshirts play in bowl games would offset it and potentially add more fan interest for non-CFP teams.
I'll care about Ohio State's bowl either way but if they end up in a non CFP game with a bunch of seniors not playing the thing that would redeem it for me would be to see the future of the Buckeyes by getting to see the redshirts play.
this is the best idea I've heard ITT. Redshirts should absolutely be allowed to play in bowl games and not count towards their eligibility. Problem solved.
Guys looking to go to NFL are protected, young guys in need of playing time and experience get it. Win win all around.
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Honestly for these lower level bowls who cares? Texas fans might be more interested in watching players who will be around next year. For the higher level bowls it would suck as a fan, but it also works both ways. Remember the Fiesta Bowl with OSU and ND? Jaylon Smith had traumatic damage in to his leg, which cost him. Joey Bosa was tossed from the game because he lowered his head and hit the QB somewhat lightly in the chest. If you are ok with tossing players, I don't think you can be mad if they skip it altogether.
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Immediately after the season, colleges should issue a bowl game signup sheet.
If any player refuses to sign it, their "scholarship" and all team privileges are immediately revoked.
That seems like it would satisfy a fan's desire for authority to assert itself. Kind of in a high school clique, you can't sit with us sort of way.
But what would it mean?
The semester is already paid for. Kids would probably finish out finals, though I guess you're pulling their academic support. Maybe that's good? You're also gonna have some paying to finish out degrees if they have second semester classes. I know most future pros try to load that last semester with online stuff. So i guess you just cut them loose.
That's an issue if you hold programs to the standards of graduating their kids. If you don't that's a non-Badge turn. Or you let them cut the sit out guys loose academically, say they don't count. Then Bama's academic numbers go up as a bunch of kids mysteriously start sitting out bowls, (no, never at Nick's behest).
This plan seems bad.
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Kids are given scholarships to play football when the football games are scheduled. If they choose not to play, their pay is taken away.
That's how it works in the world we all live in.
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Kids are given scholarships to play football when the football games are scheduled. If they choose not to play, their pay is taken away.
That's how it works in the world we all live in.
Pay? Whatever do you mean? These are amateur athletics.
In the world I live in, I can earn what someone will pay me and if I do not appear fit for a job promised me, there is no expectation I will receive it. College football does not conform to either of those.
(What are the mechanics here? Does someone get thrown out of school if they don't play in a bowl? What if someone's hurt and the coach doesn't believe them? This seems like a slippery slope to a lot of things, and the only upside seems to be a visceral short of short-term satisfaction)
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The kids skipping bowl games don't care what penalty there is for doing so, because they're gone anyway. By pulling their scholarship and the timing of the bowl season, you'd simply be motivating them to stay home spring semester.
So what's the penalty exactly?
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(Some) People talk about wanting to pay players. They already get paid in the form of a scholarship, which includes tuition, academic assistance, training, housing, food and, now, cost of attendance.
Focus on the last five items in that list. There is the penalty for abandoning your responsibilities and for abandoning your teammates.
Actions have consequences. Welcome to reality.
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(Some) People talk about wanting to pay players. They already get paid in the form of a scholarship, which includes tuition, academic assistance, training, housing, food and, now, cost of attendance.
Focus on the last five items in that list. There is the penalty for abandoning your responsibilities and for abandoning your teammates.
Actions have consequences. Welcome to reality.
Maybe, but shouldn't there be some consequences for schools enjoying the largess of off the work of their players while refusing to share the profits?
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I like the idea of letting redshirts play in the bowl.
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this is the best idea I've heard ITT. Redshirts should absolutely be allowed to play in bowl games and not count towards their eligibility. Problem solved.
Guys looking to go to NFL are protected, young guys in need of playing time and experience get it. Win win all around.
I kind of like it, but my issue is what is the point of letting them play if you don't play them? Then it really turns into an NFL preseason game, where you are exclusively using it to run the 2s and 3s out there to get a look at them, and I don't have a ton of interest in that.
I still don't see how MSU-LSU in a Citrus Bowl is any more of an "exhibition" than MSU-Rutgers was last weekend? Or truly how UM-OSU was for the Michigan players? You are playing for nothing other than pride, and the fact that it counts on your record. Again, I can't blame the players. The point isn't to blame the players or figure out how to stop them, but how to make this work for fans. People keep saying nobody is watching those lower tier bowls anyway. Well (a) Yes, enough people are that they are profitable enough to keep expanding; and (b) Fournette sat out the Citrus Bowl last year. If the Citrus Bowl is "lower tier" than what isn't? Just the NY6 games?
I honestly enjoy the bowls. I don't much watch the mid-major matchups, but if 6-6 Texas and 7-5 Arizona are playing in the Cactus Bowl, I'm watching that, and while we call them "exhibitions" we play them like they are real games, and I don't want to lose that. I fear that's what will happen with the redshirt rule.
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(Some) People talk about wanting to pay players. They already get paid in the form of a scholarship, which includes tuition, academic assistance, training, housing, food and, now, cost of attendance.
Focus on the last five items in that list. There is the penalty for abandoning your responsibilities and for abandoning your teammates.
Actions have consequences. Welcome to reality.
NYT or maybe Forbes did a break down of what each scholarship player was worth to some of the top programs.
It was $500,000+ and up. Per player, per year. Their scholarship, room & board, meal allowance, and the tiny little stipend they get comes nowhere close to $500,000+ a year.
And let's get real- some players that are absolute fan favorites and stars like Manziel was at A&M or Denard at Michigan or Barkley is at Penn State are worth more than that average. Can't tell you how many jerseys Robinson sold- when he was playing seems like every Michigan fan in the world bought a #16 jersey- and the team sucked ass every year he played at Michigan except one.
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I like the idea of letting redshirts play in the bowl.
Agree, that's a good idea. It doesn't solve the problem of players not playing in the bowl, but it does mitigate the distaste somewhat.
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NYT or maybe Forbes did a break down of what each scholarship player was worth to some of the top programs.
It was $500,000+ and up. Per player, per year. Their scholarship, room & board, meal allowance, and the tiny little stipend they get comes nowhere close to $500,000+ a year.
but the free training, experience and national exposure make up a significant chunk of that difference.
and projected worth is very subjective, especially concerning values of intangibles like scholarships and training, etc.
i like the idea of redshirts playing though.
and whoever said they don't owe the schools/program anything, i disagree. both the schools and the athletes invest a ton into each other, why should one side be able to back out for sake of their payday at the expense of the other?
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utee... I'll watch a crappy Texas team. =)
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So will I.
Mainly because there's a better than even chance they end up playing my slightly less crappy Aggies in said bowl game.
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utee... I'll watch a crappy Texas team. =)
You've had plenty of opportunity over the past 8 seasons that's for sure.
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btw.. back on topic. It's sad when players skip bowl games. UNL's entire team is skipping this year, and it doesn't make me happy.
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btw.. back on topic. It's sad when players skip bowl games. UNL's entire team is skipping this year, and it doesn't make me happy.
As sad as the defense skipping the whole season? :88:
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As sad as the defense skipping the whole season? :88:
nothing is that sad.... (sigh)
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Don't tell a player that a bowl game means nothing and it's an exhibition. You'll likely end up on your back and bloody.
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Don't tell a player that a bowl game means nothing and it's an exhibition. You'll likely end up on your back and bloody.
I love ya man, but if that were actually true, then this thread wouldn't even exist.
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I love ya man, but if that were actually true, then this thread wouldn't even exist.
I'm talking about a player who was in one. They want to be there.
This thread is about players who are selfish and abandon their teammates and coaches.
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And last year it's was studs, 1st rounders, playing the position where wear and tear is the worst, running back. One of these kids is a safety with a 6th round grade. If that kind of kid is skipping the bowl, who isn't?
well, last bowl season a safety with a 6th round grade from Nebraska skipped the bowl game
but, it was for lack of grades
perhaps a few of these players are just saving face - wouldn't be eligible anyway
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I also fail to see how this is any different than coaches leaving to prepare for their next job before the bowl, which most of them do.
I don't believe Chryst coached Pitt in their bowl game after taking the Wisconsin job before the bowl game. If that's the mentality of coaches, why should players be held to a different standard. You want to force coaches to finish out the season, and prevent schools from talking to other coaches until the bowl games are done, then I'd be open to discussing players playing in bowl games too.
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I also fail to see how this is any different than coaches leaving to prepare for their next job before the bowl, which most of them do.
I don't believe Chryst coached Pitt in their bowl game after taking the Wisconsin job before the bowl game. If that's the mentality of coaches, why should players be held to a different standard. You want to force coaches to finish out the season, and prevent schools from talking to other coaches until the bowl games are done, then I'd be open to discussing players playing in bowl games too.
They aren't.
When Paul Chryst chose to leave Pitt for UW, Pitt stopped giving him a paycheck and resources.
What's the difference?
If you quit your job or responsibility, why would anyone continue to provide you a paycheck and resources?
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All of those players are done anyway.
And it's tough to say the bowls mean anything, if coaches are fine leaving before them. If that's the message we are sending, then no, they don't mean anything.