CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on December 10, 2019, 11:22:55 PM
-
Our friends at ESPN have ranked the top 150 head coaches. The top 25:
1. Bear Bryant - Alabama & others
2. Nick Saban - Alabama & others
3. Knute Rockne - ND
4. Tom Osborne - Nebraska
5. Eddie Robinson - Grambling
6. Bud Wilkinson - OU
7. Joe Paterno - Penn St
8. Bobby Bowden - FSU & others
9. Woody Hayes - OSU & others
10. Frank Leahy - ND, BC
11. Pop Warner - Carlisle & others
12. John McKay - USC
13. Barry Switzer - OU
14. Amos Alonzo Stagg - Chicago & others
15. Ara Parseghian - ND & others
16. John Gagliardi - St. John's (MN) & another
17. Walter Camp - Yale, Stanford
18. Fielding Yost - Michigan & others
19. Red Blaik - Army, Dartmouth
20. Bo Schembechler - Michigan, Miami (OH)
21. Bobby Dodd - GA Tech
22. LaVell Edwards - BYU
23. Lou Holtz - ND & others
24. Vince Dooley - Georgia
25. Tubby Raymond - Delaware
---------
Other notables:
26. Bob Devaney
27. Steve Spurrier
29. Bob Stoops
30. John Heisman
31. Dabo Swinney
33. John Robinson
35. Jim Tressel
36. Robert Neyland
37. Pete Carroll
38. Darrell K Royal
42. Fritz Crisler
45. Frank Beamer
46. Urban Meyer
49. Jimmy Johnson
50. Lloyd Carr
51. Duffy Daugherty
55. Bill Snyder
74. Gary Patterson
78. Lance Leipold
79. Don Nehlen
89. Brian Kelly
90. Barry Alvarez
91. Hayden Fry
93. Howard Schnellenberger
94. Phil Fulmer
97. John Cooper
107. Earle Bruce
110. Jimbo Fisher
112. Fisher DeBerry
136. Mark Richt
140. Les Miles
143. Earl Banks
144. Bill McCartney
146. Jack Mollenkopf
-
I don't like that they lump in the Division-III guys with the big boys. They're just doing such different jobs. Wisconsin-Whitewater's longtime great coach should be near the top of that division's best HCs ever, not slipped into this one at #79 or whatever.
*Should there be that much space between Hayes and Bo? I thought they were basically the same career-wise.
Maybe I'm a homer, but I can't see the argument for Holtz over Spurrier. Both won at multiple stops, and Spurrier's peak at UF was better than Holtz's at ND.
Neyland is way too low.
There aren't 45 better HCs in history than Urban Meyer. I know this list skews high-volume, and that's perfectly fine, but still.
Snyder and Alvarez seem criminally low - I guess program-building (from scratch) isn't taken into account.
-
46. Urban Meyer
:017:
-
Not sure I'd have Bill Snyder that low.
-
Mark Richt and Les Miles?
-
Might be the dumbest list ever compiled.
-
I looked at this yesterday. When I saw Urban that low, I just laughed.
-
*Should there be that much space between Hayes and Bo? I thought they were basically the same career-wise.
National Championships: Woody 5, Bo 0
Rose Bowls: Woody 4-4, Bo 2-8
So yeah, "basically the same career-wise." lol
-
As noted by many here, such "lists" and "rankings" of largely subjective topics get "clicks" for web sites (including this one).
The credibility of the list is only as good as you confer it. I think 40 years back or so, a list in say Sports Illustrated might have had some weight to it because SI was just about the only sports magazine extant. At least when I was young I viewed SI as some kind of "authority" on sports. Today obviously we have a profusion of sites and whatevers to rank everything under the sun competing for eyeballs and ad money.
It's possible some junior intern was asked to compile this list, perhaps by rank ordering career wins and then juggling a bit, kind of like how some grad assistant prepared the coach's poll and runs it by him for a minute and he says fine.
Such lists are fun to criticize of course, especially when they have some blatant misjudgments. At least they put Alabama in the top two spots, where they should have been in the playoff committee's ranking as well.
-
Yeah, it's just a bone for us to gnaw on. So have at it.
-
National Championships: Woody 5, Bo 0
Rose Bowls: Woody 4-4, Bo 2-8
So yeah, "basically the same career-wise." lol
I agree, but I do get where @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) was coming from. During the famed "Ten Year War" they were "about the same":
- H2H: Bo had a slight (5-4-1) advantage.
- Rose Bowls: Woody was slightly better (1-4 vs 0-5) but frankly both were bad.
- NC's: N/A
- Overall: Michigan was better at 96-15-3 (.855, #1 nationally) compared to Woody's 88-20-3 (.806, #7 nationally).
- AP Poll Appearances: Michigan was better appearing in 144 of 147 polls (#1 nationally) compared to 137 for Ohio State (tied for #3 nationally)
- AP top-10: Michigan was slightly better appearing in 134 of 147 top-10's (#1 nationally) compared to 120 of 147 for Ohio State (#2 nationally).
- AP top-5: Ohio State was slightly better appearing in 99 of 147 top-5's (#1 nationally) compared to 90 of 147 for Michigan (#3 nationally).
- AP top-2: Ohio State was MUCH better appearing in 53 of 147 top-2's (#1 nationally) compared to 20 of 147 for Michigan.
- AP #1: Ohio State was MUCH better appearing 41 times out of 147 at #1 (#1 nationally) compared to 12 of 147 for Michigan (#6 nationally).
Where Woody REALLY cleans Bo's clock is when you consider their years outside of the "Ten Year War". Woody coached at Ohio State for a total of 28 years from 1951-1978 while Bo coached at Michigan for a total of 21 years from 1969-1989. Thus, Woody had 18 years and Bo had 11 years outside of the "Ten Year War". In those "other" years:
- vs Rival: Woody went 12-6 (.667) against Michigan, Bo went 6-5 (.545) against Ohio State.
- Rose Bowls: Woody went 3-0, Bo went 2-3.
- NC's: Woody won three, Bo never got one.
- Overall: Woody went 117-41-7 (.730, #3 nationally), Bo went 98-33-2 (.744, #8 nationally). This one is interesting, you could argue it either way. Bo's percentage was better but Woody's national ranking was better.
- AP Poll Appearances: Woody had 132 appearances out of 218 polls (#4 nationally), Bo had 146 out of 176 (#3 nationally). Woody's appearance percentage is significantly lower but that is NOT a fair comparison because the AP Poll was limited to 10 teams from 1962-1967 and 20 for the rest of Woody's tenure. Bo had the benefit of there being 20 teams until his last year when there were 25.
- AP top-10: Woody was in the top-10 in 103 of 218 polls (#5 nationally), Bo had 79 out of 176 (tied for #7 nationally).
- AP top-5: Woody was in the top-5 in 59 of 218 polls (#6 nationally), Bo had 43 out of 176 (tied for #7 nationally).
- AP #1: Woody was #1 in 13 of 218 polls (#7 nationally), Bo had 3 out of 176 (tied for #14 nationally).
-
Gives too much credit to the old guys, IMO.
Also, agree with the earlier posts: Urban Meyer and Alvarez too low (probably Snyder, too). While I think that Brian Kelly is probably a very good football coach, I don't see how he's close to what Alvarez did.
All that said, lots of really good coaches on this list, and pretty hard to differentiate what they all did.
-
Maybe Bo is being penalized for his unrelated work for the Tigers? ;)
-
Maybe Bo is being penalized for his unrelated work for the Tigers? ;)
Firing Ernie Harwell should be a disqualifying event
-
Urban Meyer at 46 is a joke. He's top 5 at worst.
-
Might be the dumbest list ever compiled.
this
-
My list of dumb lists was pretty dumb.
-
A list like this can’t functionally have any any real value. You can barely compare Snyder and Saban, let alone Saban and Pop Warner.
It’s beyond the silly and subjective.
I think some of the case stuff is interesting. Urby is most assuredly overrated for his first stop and modestly for his second. His OSU tenure is interesting because he managed almost the least consequential 83-9 possible, which is a weird thing to write, but is kinda true. He’s super underrated as an innovator.
I think Spurrier’s UF tenure also has possible holes, namely a lack of one loss teams despite all that talent.
But anyway, putting numbers on it is silly. HBCU coaches from the 60s and Oklahoma coaches from the 20s vs a two-loss National champ at LSU? It’s like apples vs steaks vs beans.
-
I agree, but I do get where @OrangeAfroMan (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=58) was coming from. During the famed "Ten Year War" they were "about the same":
Yeah, this is it, because this is all I ever hear about with either of them (along with Woody's punch). Growing up outside of Big Ten country, it's as if the two of them were direct contemporaries.
So yeah, that history of being paired up with Bo does a disservice to Hayes.
-
I think Spurrier’s UF tenure also has possible holes, namely a lack of one loss teams despite all that talent.
Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl. Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years.
-
Spurrier was in my mind a great college coach, and funny too, often at our expense.
-
I think that both Barry Switzer and--even more so--Urban Meyer are being punished for some unwritten "morality clause" in the criteria.
Conversely, I think Bob Stoops is getting some bonus points for being a stand-up guy.
I do not like Nick Saban, but he should be #1. His championships are all legit, earned through the BCS or CFP system, even though two of them came after he didn't win his division in the SEC. Bear Bryant's championships are from a different era (as are those of Wilkinson, McKay, Parseghian, et. al.), where until 1968 (AP) and 1973 (UPI/Coaches) named their national champs before the bowl games, and there were often split championships. Going back further, national championships earned before the AP Poll appeared in 1938 are even shakier.
-
Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl. Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years.
He also won at Duke for crying out loud. I also think (and it is hard to determine how much to attribute to Spurrier, as their deal w CBS is often overlooked too) he really smacked the SEC upside the head and forced them to step their game up. The league wasn't quite a perennial bully the way it very much became later, and Spurrier's arrival and subsequent beatings he administered really forced a lot of those programs to look inward.
Of course he did enjoy some humble pie along the way. :)
-
Perennial top-5 FSU, then SECCG, then (major) bowl. Spurrier was the first HC to face a playoff-like ending to his season most years.
True, but he also came into that stretch with a loss almost every year. He had two breakthroughs, one where he got mushed by Neb and one when he backed into a title. That's all good.
He had nine other seasons without probation. There were two SEC title game loses (both with this highest loss teams), four big bowl losses, five regular season FSU losses and a tie. That's all well and good, but then you have 12 more losses, or about 1.3 a year. And that's fine, but if you're the best play-caller of all time, have a boatload of talent and have Bob Stoops for most of it, i guess I just imagine they'd have more bites at the apple, more times they came into that stretch with a better record.
-
He also won at Duke for crying out loud. I also think (and it is hard to determine how much to attribute to Spurrier, as their deal w CBS is often overlooked too) he really smacked the SEC upside the head and forced them to step their game up. The league wasn't quite a perennial bully the way it very much became later, and Spurrier's arrival and subsequent beatings he administered really forced a lot of those programs to look inward.
Of course he did enjoy some humble pie along the way. :)
He was very good at Duke and got South Carolina to heights it's still chasing. But even then, he went 10-2 three times and didn't play for the SEC title (he did the year before in a unforgivably bad east)
-
True, but he also came into that stretch with a loss almost every year. He had two breakthroughs, one where he got mushed by Neb and one when he backed into a title. That's all good.
He had nine other seasons without probation. There were two SEC title game loses (both with this highest loss teams), four big bowl losses, five regular season FSU losses and a tie. That's all well and good, but then you have 12 more losses, or about 1.3 a year. And that's fine, but if you're the best play-caller of all time, have a boatload of talent and have Bob Stoops for most of it, i guess I just imagine they'd have more bites at the apple, more times they came into that stretch with a better record.
He only had Bob Stoops (his DC) from 1996 through 1998.
Seems like he lost about a game a year that he shouldn't have.
But you could say that about Bob Stoops too, every year at Oklahoma after 2004. He ran the OU program a lot like Spurrier ran Florida, so there might be a common reason for that.
-
I have to admit, I've never heard anyone cite 'losing too much' as a mark against Spurrier. 122-27-1 at Florida. I think you might be underestimating the Gators' schedules through the 90s.
Here's a fun stat in regards to him losing: Spurrier didn't lose to an unranked team from 1990 until the 2000 season. 10 years. No giveaways in a decade. He only lost to good teams, and they played a lot of them. His lone NC season was vs the #1 schedule in the country.
But as Alvarez and Snyder get credit (or should) for program building, Spurrier also did something unique - he transformed a run-first, run-second, run-third conference into a modern brand of football. He was dropping 50 points on ranked opponents left and right.
He admittedly didn't care for recruiting, didn't like having to persuade someone to play for him. If you weren't doing as you were coached, he'd put the next guy in. THAT was a big deal, to be honest.
But back to my point - I just don't see how you put Holtz ahead of him. They're similar in several different ways, but Spurrier is ahead by a little in all the ones I see.
-
list is a joke. Urban Meyer is top 5 and I'd put Spurrier in the top 10. Period.
-
Any timeline adjustment should skew pro-recent, as it's harder to dominate now. More money, more quality HCs invested, competing with more rules in place and scholly limits, etc.
Same with all sports - bigger pool of athletes to draw from now than in the past (races, int'l players, population, etc), more cream rising to the top, the games evolving from chest-pounding to real actual efficiency. More teams, bigger conferences, more obstacles in your way.
A guy winning 80% of his games since 2005 >>>>>> a guy winning 80% of his games in the 50s and 60s
-
You could, easily, pool these HCs into different classes for what made them so great, and each list would still be epic. You have the high-volume guys who won a lot and forever (Bryant, Paterno, Bowden), but then you have the rascally, arrogant guys who would out-coach you on game-day (Switzer, Spurrier, Meyer). Defensive specialists (Woody, Bo, Neyland, Saban)...system guys, with some form of option (Wilkinson, Royal, Osborne, Blaik) or big-passing game (Edwards, Spurrier, Bowden/Richt) and innovators (Camp, Heisman, Warner, Stagg), and many more.
A lot of smart men who found football to be a worthwhile exercise in willpower, motivation, and innovation.
-
All coaches get criticized for losing except in seasons when they win 'em all.
Spurrier's losses:
1990: Tennessee (9-2-2), FSU (10-2)
1991: Syracuse (10-2), Notre Dame (10-3)
1992: Tennessee (9-3), Missisippi State (7-5)
1993: FSU (11-1), Alabama (13-0)
1994: Auburn (9-1-1), FSU (tie) (10-1-1) FSU (10-1-1)
1995: Nebraska (12-0)
1996: FSU (11-1)
1997: LSU (9-3), Georgia (10-2)
1998: Tennessee (13-0), FSU (11-2)
1999: Alabama (10-3), FSU (12-0), Alabama (10-3), Michigan State (10-2)
2000: Mississippi State (8-4), FSU (11-2), Miami (11-1)
2001: Auburn (7-5), Tennessee (11-2)
Not many teams there that he "shouldn't have lost to." A couple to mediocre Mississippi State teams. A 7-5 Auburn team. That's about it. Tough having to play FSU every year when they were on a historic stretch of excellence.
Bob Stoops lost more than that to teams he shouldn't have. Each year, as we looked at the schedule before the season started, Sooner fans wondered which unlikely team would beat us. Lincoln Riley has continued that trend with losses to Iowa State (8-5) in 2017 and K-State (8-4) this season. I guess I let the sins of the pupil rub off on my thinking about his mentor.
-
(https://www.facebook.com/IowaStateFootball/videos/523080585086410/)One of T.O.s 49 losses was to a team that finished sub-.500 (@ Iowa St. 19-10 in '92). Walden comes out in the wishbone and Fr. T Frazier and other youngins simply played badly. Goal posts have never come down so fast.
Nebraska wore those all whites again. I don't think those came out again much since then.
Goalposts come down (https://www.facebook.com/IowaStateFootball/videos/2660289200698245/)
-
(https://www.facebook.com/IowaStateFootball/videos/523080585086410/)One of T.O.s 49 losses was to a team that finished sub-.500 (@ Iowa St. 19-10 in '92). Walden comes out in the wishbone and Fr. T Frazier and other youngins simply played badly. Goal posts have never come down so fast.
Nebraska wore those all whites again. I don't think those came out again much since then.
Goalposts come down (https://www.facebook.com/IowaStateFootball/videos/2660289200698245/)
I hate to see my team lose, especially to a mid-pack team. But there's something about Iowa State and its fans that makes it a little bit OK. The Cyclones are sort of like the little engine that thought it could. That QB breaking the big run down to the 3 could have been puffing, "I think I can. I think I can. I think I can." And I don't know of any fans who stick with their team through the many lean seasons better than ISU fans do.
-
South Carolina fans are similar - 80,000+ turn out, even when they stink.
-
All coaches get criticized for losing except in seasons when they win 'em all.
Spurrier's losses:
1990: Tennessee (9-2-2), FSU (10-2)
1991: Syracuse (10-2), Notre Dame (10-3)
1992: Tennessee (9-3), Missisippi State (7-5)
1993: FSU (11-1), Alabama (13-0)
1994: Auburn (9-1-1), FSU (tie) (10-1-1) FSU (10-1-1)
1995: Nebraska (12-0)
1996: FSU (11-1)
1997: LSU (9-3), Georgia (10-2)
1998: Tennessee (13-0), FSU (11-2)
1999: Alabama (10-3), FSU (12-0), Alabama (10-3), Michigan State (10-2)
2000: Mississippi State (8-4), FSU (11-2), Miami (11-1)
2001: Auburn (7-5), Tennessee (11-2)
Not many teams there that he "shouldn't have lost to." A couple to mediocre Mississippi State teams. A 7-5 Auburn team. That's about it. Tough having to play FSU every year when they were on a historic stretch of excellence.
Bob Stoops lost more than that to teams he shouldn't have. Each year, as we looked at the schedule before the season started, Sooner fans wondered which unlikely team would beat us. Lincoln Riley has continued that trend with losses to Iowa State (8-5) in 2017 and K-State (8-4) this season. I guess I let the sins of the pupil rub off on my thinking about his mentor.
That’s totally fair. And I think Bob was probably a little underrated.
I put Steve as top 20 in an arbitrary list. Maybe top 15. But folks say top 10. And I think man, guy must have titles. And he had one, that he needed Joe Germaine to help deliver. Well maybe he was at a lesser program. Nope, at a place with all the talent. Well he must have been right there a bunch of times. And he kinda wasn’t.
Had a hell of a run. Was an innovator and did some special stuff at three programs. But at a place with all the talent, he went into three bowl seasons with a shot at a title, one controlling his chance to win it (one he was behind two 11-0 teams, meaning he needed three games to go right)
-
South Carolina fans are similar - 80,000+ turn out, even when they stink.
Those folks are oft wondering why that passion can’t translate to more, and I don’t have the heart to tell them.
-
All coaches get criticized for losing except in seasons when they win 'em all.
Spurrier's losses:
1990: Tennessee (9-2-2), FSU (10-2)
1991: Syracuse (10-2), Notre Dame (10-3)
1992: Tennessee (9-3), Missisippi State (7-5)
1993: FSU (11-1), Alabama (13-0)
1994: Auburn (9-1-1), FSU (tie) (10-1-1) FSU (10-1-1)
1995: Nebraska (12-0)
1996: FSU (11-1)
1997: LSU (9-3), Georgia (10-2)
1998: Tennessee (13-0), FSU (11-2)
1999: Alabama (10-3), FSU (12-0), Alabama (10-3), Michigan State (10-2)
2000: Mississippi State (8-4), FSU (11-2), Miami (11-1)
2001: Auburn (7-5), Tennessee (11-2)
Not many teams there that he "shouldn't have lost to." A couple to mediocre Mississippi State teams. A 7-5 Auburn team. That's about it. Tough having to play FSU every year when they were on a historic stretch of excellence.
Bob Stoops lost more than that to teams he shouldn't have. Each year, as we looked at the schedule before the season started, Sooner fans wondered which unlikely team would beat us. Lincoln Riley has continued that trend with losses to Iowa State (8-5) in 2017 and K-State (8-4) this season. I guess I let the sins of the pupil rub off on my thinking about his mentor.
Thanks for doing the legwork.
Now, here's the other side of it - Spurrier's wins vs top 10 teams:
1990: #4 Auburn (by 41 pts)
1991: #4 Tennessee, #3 FSU
1992: #7 Georgia
1993: #5 Tennessee, #3 WV (by 34)
1994: #3 Alabama
1995: #8 Tennessee (by 25), #7 Auburn, #6 FSU
1996: #2 Tennessee, #1 FSU (by 32)
1997: #4 Tennessee, #6 Auburn, #2 FSU
1998: none (beat two different #11s)
1999: #2 Tennessee, #10 Georgia
2000: none, but beat 5 other ranked teams
2001: #6 Maryland (by 33)
So while Spurrier only had 2 seasons of fewer than two losses, it's not like he couldn't win big ones. "Big Game" Bob Stoops became renowned for losing big games.
Spurrier's combination of never losing to lesser teams and routinely beating top 10 teams probably helps his reputation. Yes, most great coaches almost always beat the teams they should and hold their own vs top teams, but Spurrier probably has an all-time great record vs unranked teams AND played more than his fair share of top teams.
-
I put Steve as top 20 in an arbitrary list. Maybe top 15. But folks say top 10. And I think man, guy must have titles. And he had one, that he needed Joe Germaine to help deliver. Well maybe he was at a lesser program. Nope, at a place with all the talent. Well he must have been right there a bunch of times. And he kinda wasn’t.
Had a hell of a run. Was an innovator and did some special stuff at three programs. But at a place with all the talent, he went into three bowl seasons with a shot at a title, one controlling his chance to win it (one he was behind two 11-0 teams, meaning he needed three games to go right)
That's all fair, and I agree mostly.
You cite the talent and all, but does it sway you to know Florida had ZERO SEC championships before Spurrier showed up? None. 83-84 kinda won it, but they were cheating. Very pedestrian history, not much tradition, and he came in right away and had the best SEC record in year 1. It's not the equivalent of KSU or Wisconsin's ascensions, but yeah, literally no SEC titles as a founding member from 1933.
-
Bear Bryant's championships are from a different era (as are those of Wilkinson, McKay, Parseghian, et. al.),
John McKay was in my mind a great college coach, and funny too, often at our expense. :111:
-
Not sure where Jimmy Johnson is on that list.Maybe he got dinged on duration
-
Thanks for doing the legwork.
Now, here's the other side of it - Spurrier's wins vs top 10 teams:
1990: #4 Auburn (by 41 pts)
1991: #4 Tennessee, #3 FSU
1992: #7 Georgia
1993: #5 Tennessee, #3 WV (by 34)
1994: #3 Alabama
1995: #8 Tennessee (by 25), #7 Auburn, #6 FSU
1996: #2 Tennessee, #1 FSU (by 32)
1997: #4 Tennessee, #6 Auburn, #2 FSU
1998: none (beat two different #11s)
1999: #2 Tennessee, #10 Georgia
2000: none, but beat 5 other ranked teams
2001: #6 Maryland (by 33)
So while Spurrier only had 2 seasons of fewer than two losses, it's not like he couldn't win big ones. "Big Game" Bob Stoops became renowned for losing big games.
Spurrier's combination of never losing to lesser teams and routinely beating top 10 teams probably helps his reputation. Yes, most great coaches almost always beat the teams they should and hold their own vs top teams, but Spurrier probably has an all-time great record vs unranked teams AND played more than his fair share of top teams.
It's a good idea never to say "never." I already pointed out three lesser teams that beat Spurrier's teams. That's not many. But it's not none either.
-
Until someone shows another HC that had fewer than ZERO losses to unranked teams in a 10-year span, I'll say 'never'.
-
Jimmy Johnson is 49th, just in front of Lloyd Carr.
Johnson had an over-.500 record at Oklahoma State, pre-Miami. Some other impressive over-.500 marks at their 'other' P5 stops for HCs:
Ara Parseghian at Northwestern
Lou Holtz at NC State
Spurrier at South Carolina and Duke
Snyder at Kansas St
Dennis Erickson at Oregon St
Dan Devine at Missouri
John Cooper at ASU
Earle Bruce at Iowa St
Les Miles at Oklahoma St
-
Those are notable figures, I think, versus somebody moving to UGA and posting good numbers.
-
Right, winning at a helmet or 'name' program isn't all that newsworthy. But a winning record at Northwestern? Wow!
-
James Franklin won 60% of his games at Vanderbilt. That's pretty damn impressive.
-
James Franklin won 60% of his games at Vanderbilt. That's pretty damn impressive.
Not only that, but they tanked after he left. Three bowl games and two 9 win seasons, at Vandy. That is almost like someone showing up at Rutger and winning 4 games two years in a row.
-
Yeah, I think there's just recency bias for him, and/or not enough overall volume of games to really put him in there yet.