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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on July 30, 2019, 08:32:35 AM

Title: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: ELA on July 30, 2019, 08:32:35 AM

50s & 60s
#1 The Beatles (White Album)
#5 Are You Experienced?
#6 Let It Bleed
#7 Led Zeppelin
.
70s
#1 Rumours
#2 Exile on Main Street
#5 Dark Side of the Moon
#6 Born to Run
.
80s
#1 Thriller
#2 The Joshua Tree
#3 London Calling
#5 Appetite for Destruction
.
90s to today
#1 Nevermind
#2 Achtung Baby
#3 OK Computer
#5 (What's the Story) Morning Glory

Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 09:07:59 AM
GnR for me and it's not really even close.  I liked Nirvana alright, but certainly not Greatest of all Time.  
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2019, 09:25:58 AM
Cracks me up the Doors suck but GnR's is great?Puhleeeze
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
Doors are terrible.  GnR is awesome.

It is known.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
Put that thing out you'll burn your fingers.Axel sounds like scabies and the crabs simultaneously invaded his loins at the same time.He also steals others material.Did you ever see him attempt to move/dance?A limp take off from Davy Jones of the Monkees
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 09:57:08 AM
Proof is in the pudding.  Doors are out of this tourney, GnR is thriving.

Neener neener.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2019, 10:05:16 AM
Oh ya these refined,upright,insightful Sages here are the envy of the recording industry.And someone should loosen Axel's bandana he screams enough as it is
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: fezzador on July 30, 2019, 10:22:06 AM
Zep and Floyd are the Bama and Clemson of rock music.  It's their world and everyone else is just taking up space.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MrNubbz on July 30, 2019, 10:23:31 AM
Beatles & Elvis say hello
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: fezzador on July 30, 2019, 10:25:13 AM
Maybe, but as far as this tournament is concerned, it's Floyd + Zep and then there's everyone else.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 11:35:18 AM
Oh ya these refined,upright,insightful Sages here are the envy of the recording industry.And someone should loosen Axel's bandana he screams enough as it is

I've always felt he whines a lot more than he screams.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2019, 11:47:53 AM
Lafayette's finest.  Though, Rose has not been kind when discussing his Indiana roots.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: ELA on July 30, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
Zep and Floyd are the Bama and Clemson of rock music.  It's their world and everyone else is just taking up space.
Pink Floyd IMO is the ultimate album band.  I have their double CD "Best Of", but eh.  But they have so many great albums, that work well together
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 12:32:46 PM
Yeah, Pink Floyd's Best Of isn't as good as the original albums themselves.  Just my opinion obviously.

Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 30, 2019, 01:05:11 PM
I liked Nirvana alright, but certainly not Greatest of all Time. 
Voting for Nirvana here doesn't require one to think Nevermind is the best of all time, just that it beats GnR's.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 01:11:38 PM
Voting for Nirvana here doesn't require one to think Nevermind is the best of all time, just that it beats GnR's.

It is neither the best of all time, nor better than GnR's AfD.  It doesn't deserve to make it to the championship finals, on its own merits, or compared to GnR.

Obviously my opinion, I'm absolutely comfortable with it.

Like I said, I liked it ok.  I don't have the reverence for it that many my age did, and still do.  I was a college freshman when it came out and I enjoyed it at the time, it was raw and different.  I still own it on CD and have it ripped to my digital library, but I never, ever find myself wanting to listen to it.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 30, 2019, 01:17:32 PM
Fwiw, I'm not objecting to labeling Nevermind as "decently good" as much as I am objecting to labeling AfD as "better." Also just an opinion. Also made comfortably. My dukes are not up.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 01:21:31 PM
I'm gonna fight you anyway.  Be in the quad at 4 and prepare for an atomic wedgie.

Honestly, none of the final four are in my top 4 albums of all time.  I don't recall exactly what the elite 8 was, but I don't think they match any of my top 8 albums of all time, either.  Just the way the tourney works out.  As in sport, it's all about matchups. :)

Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 30, 2019, 01:31:04 PM
Heh - once the Stones got doubly booted, I started taking the album part more honestly and decided I'd vote for Dark Side until it stopped being an option. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
AAA left it deliberately open as far as criteria, which is fine and appropriate for this kind of tourney/ranking/rating.  You could define best album as "best collection of hit songs" in which case Michael Jackson's Thriller is probably way up there, or as "best flowing from song-to-song," or any number of other methods.

For me, I chose to think about it in terms of-- "Which albums did I enjoy so much that I always played them all the way through, and never felt the need to skip a song, nor did I really even have a preferred side."  To me that is  COMPLETE album, and when I rate "best album" that's the way I think of it.  As opposed to being a collection of popular hit singles, which is also certainly a way to rank and rate them.

Honestly, Boston-Boston and The Cars The Cars are two of my favorite "complete" albums of all time.  Loved every song, album tracks as much as hits, and never felt the need to fast forward or skip anything.  If I started on Side B I was fine with that, too.

Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: msufan23 on July 30, 2019, 02:46:00 PM
My favorites have all been bopped out at this point. GnR are fine and Nirvana is fine. This is the basketball equivalent of a Iowa vs Minny game to get into the Big Dance. Its enjoyable but I dont care who wins. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 30, 2019, 03:44:16 PM
Utee: Ah, by that definition my Stones votes are honest again. I also would have nominated Blood on the Tracks. Using a different definition, I've been leaning hard to Dark Side. as most honest for the the kind of album it is. I'd have a hard time putting it into words, but it's more about coherency and art than what is popular or I prefer.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2019, 03:56:21 PM
Honestly, Boston-Boston and The Cars The Cars are two of my favorite "complete" albums of all time.  Loved every song, album tracks as much as hits, and never felt the need to fast forward or skip anything.  If I started on Side B I was fine with that, too.


I hate to admit this, but I agree with Boston and the Cars

another album I could always listen start to finish was Rockihnroll by the Greg Kihn Band.
obviously not widely acclaimed 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 30, 2019, 04:18:41 PM
AAA left it deliberately open as far as criteria, which is fine and appropriate for this kind of tourney/ranking/rating.  You could define best album as "best collection of hit songs" in which case Michael Jackson's Thriller is probably way up there, or as "best flowing from song-to-song," or any number of other methods.

For me, I chose to think about it in terms of-- "Which albums did I enjoy so much that I always played them all the way through, and never felt the need to skip a song, nor did I really even have a preferred side."  To me that is  COMPLETE album, and when I rate "best album" that's the way I think of it.  As opposed to being a collection of popular hit singles, which is also certainly a way to rank and rate them.

Honestly, Boston-Boston and The Cars The Cars are two of my favorite "complete" albums of all time.  Loved every song, album tracks as much as hits, and never felt the need to fast forward or skip anything.  If I started on Side B I was fine with that, too.
To me, "coherent album" is important. Obviously Dark Side is that by far. There are a couple good hits on the album too, but when taken as a whole, it's just amazing. It fits together.

However, some of these albums were rating one collection of hits vs another. In that case, I saw some albums were too diluted. The double-albums, for example, were just too much filler for the songs that were well-known. And The Beatles, as I was researching it, was one of those later albums where all the artists were very selfish and trying to get their own songs and ideas represented, so it wasn't exactly a coherent album on top of being too large and too many duds to go with the hits.

Come to think of it, though, I wish Pearl Jam Ten had been on the list. I think that was a very coherent album, and even more "hits" than even Nevermind.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 04:24:23 PM
^^^^^^

I'd definitely put Pearl Jam Ten above Nirvana Nevermind for "best album" consideration.  
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: Anonymous Coward on July 30, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
So would 🎵 Iiiiiiiiiii-Iiii-oooohhhhh-I 🎵 ... so would I. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2019, 04:45:32 PM
Indeed.  I would have had Ten, and Odelay in here.  
Nevermind belongs too for reasons I advocated much earlier.

In total with these albums , personally I would have #1 Dark Side with a big gap over Rumours and Thriller.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 30, 2019, 04:47:12 PM
To me, this one came down to which album I think aged better. 

I think Nirvana was a more "important" album for musical history, to mainstream the grunge alternative sound. But I find myself changing the channel anytime Smells Like Teen Spirit or Come As You Are comes on the radio. Whereas Paradise City or Sweet Child O' Mine or Welcome to the Jungle are "turn it up and sing along" songs. 

To me Nirvana seems dated. And oddly, it seems dated in a way that I don't think applies to Pearl Jam Ten

Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 05:15:55 PM
To me, this one came down to which album I think aged better.

I think Nirvana was a more "important" album for musical history, to mainstream the grunge alternative sound. But I find myself changing the channel anytime Smells Like Teen Spirit or Come As You Are comes on the radio. Whereas Paradise City or Sweet Child O' Mine or Welcome to the Jungle are "turn it up and sing along" songs.

To me Nirvana seems dated. And oddly, it seems dated in a way that I don't think applies to Pearl Jam Ten.


Agree with all of this.

And I think your final sentence is true because Pearl Jam Ten simply had better-written songs.  Nevermind was important as a sound-- the sound was the art-- but the songs themselves are pretty simple and one-note, there's just not a lot of depth there.  Ten, on the other hand, was a really rich musical tapestry and the sound itself was only half of the message.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on July 30, 2019, 06:18:09 PM
Agree with all of this.

And I think your final sentence is true because Pearl Jam Ten simply had better-written songs.  Nevermind was important as a sound-- the sound was the art-- but the songs themselves are pretty simple and one-note, there's just not a lot of depth there.  Ten, on the other hand, was a really rich musical tapestry and the sound itself was only half of the message.

The sad thing is that I think Pearl Jam has been one of those cases where every single album is worse than the one before it. 

Vs was decent. Vitalogy was alright. I can't listen to anything past those. 
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2019, 11:04:16 PM
I realize Rush is usually a music swear word, but I really do enjoy playing various albums from time to time.  In some ways to Pink Floyd, they need to be listened to within the confines of either one album, or in Rush's case a particular period.   Rush has so many distinct sounds during (40 years) to make them tough to approach for those not familiar, although really, does anybody struggle in recognizing Geddy Lee's voice?  Even those that loathe Rush.

I'd argue they'd be in the final four of easiest Name That Band, bands of all-time.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: FearlessF on July 30, 2019, 11:06:51 PM
Neil Peart
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: MarqHusker on July 30, 2019, 11:25:27 PM
Their video/biography which has aired a bunch of times, including netflix is really good.
Title: Re: OT Tourney (Final 4) - Appetite for Destruction vs. Nevermind
Post by: utee94 on July 30, 2019, 11:41:17 PM
I love Rush, at least up through Power Windows.  After that it's sort of hit or miss for me.