CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: OrangeAfroMan on July 19, 2019, 10:08:39 PM
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I know we've had plenty of "who do you think would win" polls, but not this specific type. These are just the split NCs of the past and who you think would win if they could have played.
Easy, fun stuff.
There are others going back further, but this is enough.
Just list your winners:
1978: Alabama (AP) vs USC (UPI)
1990: Colorado (AP) vs Georgia Tech (UPI)
1991: Miami (AP) vs Washington (Coaches)
1994: Nebraska (AP/Coaches) vs Penn State (0-loss big-boy team)
1997: Michigan (AP) vs Nebraska (Coaches)
2003: LSU (BCS) vs USC (AP)
2004: USC (BCS/AP) vs Auburn (0-loss big-boy team)
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Nebraska would have won the 1997 game.
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I’ll answer the ones I witnessed and remember.
1990- Colorado. I probably feel more confident about this one than any other.
1991- Miami. Back then my head said Miami but man my heart didn’t.
1994- Nebraska. This is the toughie in my opinion. This was the year that made me really start resenting the bowl tie ins. I wanted to see this game.
1997-Nebraska. I guess I was really all in on Osborne’s teams in the mid to late 90’s.
2003- USC. They were really rolling at the end of that season.
2004- USC. The dismantling of what I thought was a really good Oklahoma team cemented this hypothetical matchup in my mind. I don’t remember the details now but I also remember feeling like Auburn was a little fortunate to beat VT in the Sugar Bowl that season.
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Nebraska would have won the 1997 game.
It wouldn't have been Michigan
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I'll take Michigan in all of those.
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1978: Alabama (AP) vs USC (UPI)
1990: Colorado (AP) vs Georgia Tech (UPI)
1991: Miami (AP) vs Washington (Coaches)
1994: Nebraska (AP/Coaches) vs Penn State (0-loss big-boy team)
1997: Michigan (AP) vs Nebraska (Coaches)
2003: LSU (BCS) vs USC (AP)
2004: USC (BCS/AP) vs Auburn (0-loss big-boy team)
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I'm more confident of the Huskers over Michigan in 97 than I am of PSU in 94, but I think the Skers win both
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I'll go with the Huskies in 1991.
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I think USC would have beaten Auburn in 2004. I think I'm able to put aside my personal feelings (USC did beat OU 55-19 in the Orange Bowl NC game), and say that.
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1978: Alabama (AP) vs USC (UPI)
1990: Colorado (AP) vs Georgia Tech (UPI)
1991: Miami (AP) vs Washington (Coaches)
1994: Nebraska (AP/Coaches) vs Penn State (0-loss big-boy team)
1997: Michigan (AP) vs Nebraska (Coaches)
2003: LSU (BCS) vs USC (AP)
2004: USC (BCS/AP) vs Auburn (0-loss big-boy team)
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Nebraska was NASTY in 97. It may be the best team of the 90's. Except for their 95 selves.... They were even nastier with Frazier. Phillips, though, what a waste.
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Nebraska was NASTY in 97. It may be the best team of the 90's.
First time I've ever heard this. It couldn't have anything to do with their bowl victim that year, could it?
Many consider their win over Mizzou not a real win, as it required an illegal kick-assist for a last-second TD. And Mizzou wasn't good that year.
Overall, I think people are really overlooking '91 Washington.
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1990: Colorado (AP) vs Georgia Tech (UPI)
1991: Miami (AP) vs Washington (Coaches)
1994: Nebraska (AP/Coaches) vs Penn State (0-loss big-boy team)
1997: Michigan (AP) vs Nebraska (Coaches)
2003: LSU (BCS) vs USC (AP)
2004: USC (BCS/AP) vs Auburn (0-loss big-boy team)
I agree with all of these.
The toughest call for me is 1994. Penn State's defense is a problem, BUT that Miami team that Nebraska outlasted was led by a very ordinary QB, Frank Costa. 15 TD, 15 INT. The PSU passing game would have put up big numbers on the Huskers, along with Nebraska scoring more themselves.
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busted.
however, i don't know that i'd write them off because of Mizzou. It isn't that Mizzou was good or bad then, it's that is the name of the game... Vandy took ND to the wire last season... UT beat Auburn... Purdue ripped flesh off of tOSU in one of the worst arsewhoopin's i can recall... none were supposed to happen. Nebraska pulled it off, but i couldn't hold it against them that Mizzou was in the game late.
same with MichSt beating tOSU in '98. that tOSU team would have destroyed UT and it was fortunate they assisted FSU having that honor for the first BCS Championship. Could they do it twice? twice in as many as 10?- (yeah, they could have in 10, but likely not 5).
the landscape is littered with these inexplicable losses, and i don't have to mention it to someone like you as you've a better grip on the history than i do. However, in my humble opinion the 97 huskers were the last of the true blackshirts.... Frost ran the O efficiently both with his feet and arms... he was no Frazier, but he was good enough.
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All this confidence about UNL in 97: ha!
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Well, the funny thing is, any ardent supporter of 02 Ohio State's greatness (a la they had a bunch of close games, but could beat anybody) MUST be a proponent of 97 Michigan's case.
The trump card UM has are their game results. Some might say "HA, what else matters?", but most of us know other things also matter. If you go down the line of resume-builders, 97 UM fails to impress in many of them.
Greise wasn't even that efficient a QB, the best thing you could say about him is that he didn't go out and actively lose games for them.
No great RB, and the backups didn't even have better YPC averages, which is the standard.
Their top WR was only third on the team in receptions. That's A LOT of dinking and duunking.
Yes, the defense was all-time great. And during the season, I guess because announcers harped on it so much, much was made about their great run D. It was great - not all-time great, but great for an individual season. But the truly all-time great aspect was the pass D. It wasn't just Woodson, it was more than just him. That pass D (pass rush + comp % allowed + INTs) was perhaps the best ever (I haven't done a real study on it).
So besides all that, what UM did to ranked opponents in 97 was crazy. Wins vs 7 ranked teams at the time they played, including a blowout win AT #2. Closed the year wtih 3 close wins over 3 ranked teams. It wasn't too hard to beat UM's resume, but it was hard to beat them.
The problem with the fictional Nebraska matchup is that that all-time best pass D would be ignored because Nebraska wouldn't need to throw. That's a big deal - it negates the #1 item on their resume. If you could switch UM's defensive quality between pass and run, and the run D was perhaps the best ever, THEN you'd have A LOT more people picking the Wolverines.
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The defense was at least as superlative as UNL's offense. I would argue more but have that bias. Meanwhile Michigan's regular season was superior. UNL could be argued to have leapt to tie for the championship because of its bowl game and Osbourne's retirement mixed with a regular season that didn't disqualify them.
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If you look at the other O-D matchup, I'm not sure Michigan scores on Nebraska.
Simply avoiding an INT wouldn't have been enough for Greise. Manning had 131 yards on 34 attempts...which is awful. What would Greise do?
Plus, the Huskers' run D was statistically better than Michigan's.
If neither team can pass, advantage to the option team.
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UNL could be argued to have leapt to tie for the championship because of its bowl game and Osbourne's retirement mixed with a regular season that didn't disqualify them.
I would add the 54-15 victory on Dec. 6th in the Big 12 champ game.
Osborne's retirement probably caused his players to play harder/better in the bowl game, but I doubt many voters felt sorry for Osborne since he had back to back tiles a few seasons earlier
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I would add the 54-15 victory on Dec. 6th in the Big 12 champ game.
Osborne's retirement probably caused his players to play harder/better in the bowl game,
Wait wait wait, I've been told countless times here that players always play their best and that there is no possibility of ups and downs, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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you've been countless times by one guy that roots for the Badgers
not much experience in big games
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you've been countless times by one guy that roots for the Badgers
not much experience in big games
?
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OGC.0e4ea43ddda3676a2d6e0bd13c804875&pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fcdn3.vox-cdn.com%2fthumbor%2fijXcEt4ah-97W_v0CfZrtVDMAuI%3d%2fcdn0.vox-cdn.com%2fuploads%2fchorus_asset%2ffile%2f2461898%2fgordon.0.gif&ehk=OKYkbfGJWwq5FIk6seFf8Q)
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big game for you ;)
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CCG's are big games for any school.
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I really liked the 1999 Big 12 champ game, but not many Husker fans are enamored by the 1997 win over A&M, or the 99 win over the Horns, or the too many that they lost to the Sooners or Horns or Badgers
but I agree, they are bigger than most regular season games and most bowl games
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Badge used the wrong GIF. Meant this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MRxQ9dw-ok
Looking back, that was one of the most shameful performances in terms of tackling and angles I've ever seen. Also interesting, Neb came into that game 17th in Defensive F/+. After that and a UGA loss, they finished in something like the mid-30s.
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It happens vs good motivated offenses
Coach on his way out has a way of motivating
ask the Tenn Vols in the 98 Orange bowl vs Osborne's last team. Defensively, the Volunteers were tough against the run, allowing fewer than 95 yards per game on the ground.
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Badge used the wrong GIF. Meant this one.
that's a loooong GIF
I prefer this one.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HauntingVictoriousBactrian-size_restricted.gif)
I'd say the dude took a BAD angle
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Actually, that offensive game plan was all on Matt Canada. Bielema had the (conservative) shackles on him all season, and he knew he was not going to be with BB anymore. So he unleashed his offense and that's what happened. Dude made a lot of money off of that game. Also made Bielema look pretty bad.
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that's a loooong GIF
I prefer this one.
https://gfycat.com/orderlyvengefulicelandgull
https://giant.gfycat.com/OrderlyVengefulIcelandgull.webm
That's a targeting call today.
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?
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OGC.0e4ea43ddda3676a2d6e0bd13c804875&pid=1.7&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fcdn3.vox-cdn.com%2fthumbor%2fijXcEt4ah-97W_v0CfZrtVDMAuI%3d%2fcdn0.vox-cdn.com%2fuploads%2fchorus_asset%2ffile%2f2461898%2fgordon.0.gif&ehk=OKYkbfGJWwq5FIk6seFf8Q)
God knows I never played any defensive back, and this isn't a comment on #6 but on all DBs....whether you're taught to hurl yourself into a guy's legs or not - when you're against the sideline, ANY amount of grabbing/wrestling/gasp - tackling effort there prevents the TD. Maybe the fling-yourself-to-the-ground "effort" at tackling is "correct" out in space on the field, but not in this situation. Even a moment of resistance there would work better.
Has anyone taught DBs to tackle that way? I feel like no one would reply "yes", but in college and the NFL it's basically all I ever see. If it's a case of you're 180lbs soaking wet and you're trying to tackle Bo Jackson AND your coach has instructed it, fine. I just don't see it.
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That's a targeting call today.
your right but it wasn't back then.
Still got flagged for 15 yards
bad call
It was a clean hit
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It happens vs good motivated offenses
Coach on his way out has a way of motivating
ask the Tenn Vols in the 98 Orange bowl vs Osborne's last team. Defensively, the Volunteers were tough against the run, allowing fewer than 95 yards per game on the ground.
It could've been that....or it could've been the case of "everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face."
If you want to label an offense v defense matchup an immovable object vs irresistable force based on the stats, that's great, but one of them is still going to win that matchup.
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It could've been that....or it could've been the case of "everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the face."
If you want to label an offense v defense matchup an immovable object vs irresistable force based on the stats, that's great, but one of them is still going to win that matchup.
yup, same thing happened to the Gators a couple years earlier. Florida ranked 13th and 15th in scoring and pass efficiency defense, respectively.
The Vols had a much better run defense in 97.
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I probably don't respect the 97 Vols objectively, because Florida beat them 33-20 with our entire offense gone from the 96 champs.
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Actually, that offensive game plan was all on Matt Canada. Bielema had the (conservative) shackles on him all season, and he knew he was not going to be with BB anymore. So he unleashed his offense and that's what happened. Dude made a lot of money off of that game. Also made Bielema look pretty bad.
Bielema would have done better had he stayed at Wisconsin.
Was he under any pressure when he left?
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I probably don't respect the 97 Vols objectively, because Florida beat them 33-20 with our entire offense gone from the 96 champs.
true, but they were ranked #3 with an outside chance of upsetting the Huskers and winning the title until Michigan won the Rose
they also put a ton of players in the NFL draft on both sides of the ball
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that's a loooong GIF
I prefer this one.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HauntingVictoriousBactrian-size_restricted.gif)
I'd say the dude took a BAD angle
I too prefer when my opponents make highlight plays while down 49-10. Not great the starters were still in up 39 points, but there were still 10 minutes left in the third quarter.
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if you are a starter and you're up by 39, ya dern well better keep your head on a swivel or you could be the highlight
besides it was only 49-17 after Martinez finished off that possession after the 15 yard penalty with an 11 yard TD run
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Michigan may have won one of those split titles that they had with the Ivy League champions, back before the Civil War.
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maybe
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Yost:
I've decided to bring in a few ringers, professional baseballers. We'll give them token courses at the University, and have them play on our football team. Honus Wagner, Cap Anson, Mordecai "Three-Finger" Brown...
(https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/9/93/Cap_Anson.png)
(https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/thumb/c/c6/Honus_Wagner.png/250px-Honus_Wagner.png)
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They were kind to Honus' likeness.
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(https://static.simpsonswiki.com/images/thumb/c/c6/Honus_Wagner.png/250px-Honus_Wagner.png)
(https://cdn4.picryl.com/photo/1913/01/01/honus-wagner-pittsburgh-nl-baseball-2-640.jpg)
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Bielema would have done better had he stayed at Wisconsin.
Was he under any pressure when he left?
I wouldn't say pressure. Several of the big money guys didn't care for him, but the boss was still pretty solid with him. There was a bit of a rift when BB started talking about Meyer's recruiting tactics and his boss didn't back him, and a rift about paying assistants.
I think more than anything BB wanted to build his own program, because he did not do that in Madison.
Would have done better had he stayed? That's tough to say, to be honest, because the one year (2012) he was in Madison alone, after Paul Chryst left to coach at Pitt, BB went 8-6. The 2008 clunker too. That was when he was drinking too much and lost the team. The boss reigned that one in and he got better.
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1997 Nebraska had to come from behind to beat a weak UCF team that year. Should have lost to Colorado but won on a missed call in the end zone. Michigan beat common opponents, Colorado and Baylor, by greater margins that year. Michigan played six ranked opponents during the season, Nebraska played two. Nebraska's triple threat option offense was about as sophisticated as that of an average high school team. There is no way Nebraska gets the Coaches trophy without Tom Osborne retiring and Scott Frost making his plea on TV. Michigan would have beat the Huskers handily.
PS. Fuck Ohio State.
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1978: Alabama (AP) vs USC (UPI)
1990: Colorado (AP) vs Georgia Tech (UPI)
1991: Miami (AP) vs Washington (Coaches)
1994: Nebraska (AP/Coaches) vs Penn State (0-loss big-boy team)
1997: Michigan (AP) vs Nebraska (Coaches)
2003: LSU (BCS) vs USC (AP)
2004: USC (BCS/AP) vs Auburn (0-loss big-boy team)
Listing the favorite by S&P+
1978: USC -0.8
1990: Colorado -1.3 (although Miami, FSU and Washington were 1-2-3)
1991: Washington -3.7
1994: Penn State -3.0 (Nebraska was #4, behind #2 Florida and #3 Florida State)
1997: Nebraska -4.8 (and they were #2 and #6, with FSU #1, Florida #3, Tennessee #4, and somehow 8-4 Washington #5)
2003: LSU -0.8
2004: USC -4.6 (Oklahoma was still -1.5 over Auburn including bowl results)
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1997 Nebraska had to come from behind to beat a weak UCF team that year. Should have lost to Colorado but won on a missed call in the end zone. Michigan beat common opponents, Colorado and Baylor, by greater margins that year. Michigan played six ranked opponents during the season, Nebraska played two. Nebraska's triple threat option offense was about as sophisticated as that of an average high school team. There is no way Nebraska gets the Coaches trophy without Tom Osborne retiring and Scott Frost making his plea on TV. Michigan would have beat the Huskers handily.
PS. Fuck Ohio State.
that's what the media and Spurrier thought in 95
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I attended that night game monsoon @ Baylor. It was 42-7 at half. The 2nd half was miserable, downpour and wind most of the game the old turf was soaked, the Bear went back in his holding cell, and the refs should've let the clock run. I remember some Baylor LB pulling a Roy Williams and diving over center to break up a time killing line plunge to Willie Miller on Nebraska's own 1 in the final seconds and score a defensive TD.
Dave Roberts called his team the worst in America that week. We drank a lot of those cheap fish bowls of beer that night in Waco.
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(https://cdn4.picryl.com/photo/1913/01/01/honus-wagner-pittsburgh-nl-baseball-2-640.jpg)
HA! well played
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I was at the 2001 game in Waco that was delayed by lightning
did some tailgating with Mr. Tulip / Droog
641 rushing yards
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I’ll answer the ones I witnessed and remember.
2003- USC. They were really rolling at the end of that season.
i hear this said all the time like usc was dominating and lsu was struggling to get to end of season, but it's not the case.
usc was playing much much weaker competition than lsu down the stretch.
lsu final 3 games:
- @ ole miss, 10 wins, ranked #15 at time, finished #13/14.
- arkansas, 9 wins
- uga, 11 wins, #5 at time, finished #6/7
ave score diff: 18.33 point win for lsu
usc final 3:
- @ 2-10 arizona
- 6-7 ucla
- 8-5 oregon st
ave score diff: 31.33
i am not saying usc couldn't or wouldn't win those lsu games, but their schedules aren't comparable down the stretch. usc should have been destroying people, and lsu should have been in tough games.
i don't know who would have won, but i tend to give lsu a much better chance than most people give them. usc was playing lights out, no question. but lsu was as well, just against much tougher competition. would have a been a great game.
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I don't think anyone considers 2003 LSU a pushover vs USC. That USC team was great, and the run D all-time great, but it was more pass-happy, and Reggie Bush wouldn't go ballistic until a year later.
LSU beat 12-1 OU, holding them to 14 points. They averaged 43 for the season.
That OU squad had:
the Heisman/O'Brien winner
the Nagurski/Thorpe winner
the Butkus/Bednarik winner and
the Lombardi winner on it.
LSU had a legit NFL defensive line. An NFL RB and 2 NFL WRs. And an AA CB. They just mashed you, with big, able-bodied dudes all over the field.
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maybe not, but i rarely see anyone give lsu the nod, and it's almost always accompanied with the caveat that usc was playing better down the stretch, which implies lsu wasn't, which isn't really true. they were just playing much worse teams than lsu was playing.
i think maybe a lot of it has to do with people being upset usc got left out, and they "take it out" on lsu, when it should be directed at ou instead.
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I don't buy the "playing well down the stretch" reasoning because of that big, fat month-long gap between the regular season and the big bowl games. Ask Troy Smith what I'm talking about.
And it's also used as a BS excuse for teams that screw around and lose in September.