CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on July 09, 2019, 10:54:34 AM
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FIRST TEAM
SECOND TEAM
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I went with Iowa here. M next.
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Not an easy choice.
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now we need a vote for Sparty
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now we need a vote for Sparty
No we don't
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I voted Fields, probably Patterson next. Betting on #talent. Not sure why I’m not more enamored with Iowa, but the stats don’t pop.
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I'd like to see Stanley with M's or O's WR to work with.
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I'd like to see Stanley with M's or O's WR to work with.
That’s probably true, but last year he had a couple great TEs to work with and the team was basically the same in terms of yards per pass attempt vs FBS as UW.
Granted, they were 39th in passing S&P. My word his ground game was just awful.
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Did the standards for poll inclusion change? I don't think we've ever included anyone without at least an All-Big Ten H.M., right?
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Did the standards for poll inclusion change? I don't think we've ever included anyone without at least an All-Big Ten H.M., right?
IIRC it’s in part based on preseason all-conference projections.
Also, of 11 QBs who threw 14 passes a game last fall, only three of the top 8 in YPA are back. The other three are MSU, IU and Rutgers.
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IIRC it’s based on preseason all-conference projections
Correct.
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That’s probably true, but last year he had a couple great TEs to work with and the team was basically the same in terms of yards per pass attempt vs FBS as UW.
Granted, they were 39th in passing S&P. My word his ground game was just awful.
This too.
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Did the standards for poll inclusion change? I don't think we've ever included anyone without at least an All-Big Ten H.M., right?
Well I always include 5, and for postseason yes, I use the All-Big Ten team. I don't for preseason because so many guys are removed from the list, there wouldn't be enough guys.
There is no official preseason team, so it's just a composite of various preseason teams. Problem is only 4 were included, so when there aren't enough guys as there are spots, I go to Athlon's unit rankings and find returning starters. The have MSU's QBs #5, so Lewerke. But as BAB pointed out, there simply isn't much returning QB production in the Big Ten this year. There are basically three proven commodities, one guy in Fields who has shown at least something, then a bunch of guys who were either bad, injured, or new starters.
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One could rank them by:
1. Who will throw for the most yards.
2. Who would likely be drafted highest.
3. Who does well for the best team in the league.
4. Who has the best overall stats, like TD:INT.
5. Who has the nicest helmet.
6. Who has the most potential.
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I voted Martinez - feels like Nebbers could be in for big year, at least offensively.
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I'd also put Martinez in the preseason Top 2. Fields could get there for the postseason, but preseason there's no reason to put him here except rooting interest, unless you want to emphasize that his spring game was 4/13 with*out* an interception.
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I'd also put Martinez in the preseason Top 2. Fields could get there for the postseason, but preseason there's no reason to put him here except rooting interest, unless you want to emphasize that his spring game was 4/13 with*out* an interception.
The reason would be faith OSU’s offense is heavy on playmakers and the kid has all that hype around his talent.
Buckeye QBs have been consensus first team all-conference all but one year since 2013. In 2012, an OSU guy took one of the two top spots.
(Also fun, Dan Persa was once first by coaches because 2010 was weird and kinda underrated. Daryll Clark was consensus in 2009. Gross)
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I suppose I did type "no reason." Hmm. Anyway: I know that. It's just a matter of preseason list philosophy. Guess I'm taking mine as last season's performance minus attrition, and perhaps corrected for coaching changes, if relevant. Obviously there are other ways that can feel reasonable.
I do wonder how many times I (or anyone) switch philosophy without noticing because it's convenient.
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I suppose I did type "no reason." Hmm. Anyway: I know that. It's just a matter of preseason list philosophy. Guess I'm taking mine as last season's performance minus attrition, and perhaps corrected for coaching changes, if relevant. Obviously there are other ways that can feel reasonable.
I do wonder how many times I (or anyone) switch philosophy without noticing because it's convenient.
I trend toward what you described for most spots but have a soft spot for high-power QB recruits with some college experience stepping into good situations as transfers. (I liked Patterson last year too. underestimating Haskins as a passer was my undoing there).
If I felt a bit better about NW’s supporting cast, Hunter Johnson might be in that wheelhouse. I think he could be excellent.
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Really hard decision for this one. Issue is that none of them have really "proven" that they deserve a front-running spot, and I can come up with reasons not to vote for any of them.
- Fields - brand new, no PT, unsure what OSU will look like without Meyer.
- Lewerke - Solid game manager but his comp% and TD/INT ratios dipped in his Jr year, and it's unclear whether scheme will ever give him a chance to shine.
- Martinez - Obviously very talented, and Frost's scheme could very well showcase him, but he's still a young sophomore. Can he put it together? Is the supporting cast ready yet?
- Patterson - New OC, wasn't given a huge amount of room to flourish last year. Unknown.
- Stanley - Solid game manager, but like Lewerke unclear whether scheme will ever give him a chance to shine.
I ended up with Martinez. I think he's extremely talented, and with another year in the system and under Scott Frost's scheme [which did pretty well for that Marcus Mariota guy] he could end up being the most eye-popping of the bunch.
Dark horse IMHO is Elijah Sindelar. The scheme should be right. He's got a cannon for an arm. He's got the receiving talent around him now to throw to. It will require him making a big jump in decision-making, and the OL will have to give him time for plays to develop, but if he makes the leap in his own head he could light the conference on fire throwing it all over the field.
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I voted Martinez - feels like Nebbers could be in for big year, at least offensively.
I've seen too many sophomore slumps, but he was my vote, otherwise. Went with Fields.
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Obviously, Husker fans are hoping for a "McKenzie Milton" type of 2nd season from Adrian
I'm confident the O-line will have improved from last season, how much I'm not sure. They will be bigger, stronger, and better conditioned.
the WRs, and TEs should have improved somewhat from learning the offense, but a few players have to step up. Stanley Morgan is gone and the TEs last year didn't make many plays
the RB situation is unknown. This is scary because we all know how much a good running game helps the QB and the passing game.
the strong points are Frost's scheme and Martinez' talent
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Isn't Shea a girl's name?
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Adrian was in the Rocky movie
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Yeah but she spelled it like a boy, when Adrienne was readily available as a female alternate.
So I will pin that one on her, not him.
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folks seem to enjoy using weird spellings with names
maybe her father wanted a boy?
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So Shea's father wanted a girl? O0
Good call.
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I went with Shea Patterson. I could see the argument for Martinez. He’s gonna put up monster #’s as long as he doesn’t get hurt.
Kinda baffles me that Fields has the most votes at 5. That’s based off of nothing but pure ‘crootin hype. He didn’t show a whole lot at Georgia as a frosh, couldn’t beat out a pretty mediocre talent in Fromm which is why he transferred.
I think Day will be just fine, but Ohio State also lost arguably its best ever coach in Meyer and Fields’ game was a better fit for Meyer’s style of spread option offense that features the QB run imo than he is with Day’s impressive bombs away Air Raid style passing game. Ohio State also has to replace 4 starters along the OL and Mike Weber’s tough bowling ball between the tackles thunder running style that complimented JK Dobbins slasher style perfectly.
Ohio State also has to replace like 4 senior WRs that lead the team in receptions, tds, and yards and all ripped off 4.4’s or better at the NFL combine. There’s still talent there like Austin Mack and Benjamin Victor but those are more big body, possession style receivers. Probably in the 4.6’s. They aren’t 4.35 like Paris Campbell or McLaurin who can rip the top off a defense and just run past every one deep or the type to catch a 6 yard pass and turn on the jets and go 60 more for a touchdown.
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Too close to call. So . . . I was a homer. Lewerke and Stanley are seniors. Lewerke is in the same conference, but not in the same league. Fields and Martinez are close, but don't have the resume. This year they may make their resume. Time will tell.
Probably should have chosen someone else, but I am looking at Wisconsin and Northwester having inexperienced QBs this season. I projected Iowa at 5-7, but I am raising it to 6-6 because the other traditional powers in the West have issues. Iowa has issues too. It is close between Fields, Patterson and Stanley. I can't really break that tie but I should break it in favor of Patterson or Fields but cannot figure out which of them. The schedule spells doom for the Hawkeyes.
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Kinda baffles me that Fields has the most votes at 5. That’s based off of nothing but pure ‘crootin hype.
It's that SEC speed. :72:
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I mean all things being equal Fields ain't a bad choice, being the best recruit and surrounded by the best talent and perhaps the best coaches. But I haven't seen anything yet that gets me excited, and Martinez has looked really good and also has great coaching. Patterson has been fine, the thing on him is whether Michigan's coaching change works out, and if so he'll be right at the top.
Edit:
Also, OSU did lose some receivers but they are still pretty healthy there. KJ Hill, Victor, Mack, and Olave are all fine, and young guys Jaelen Gill and Garrett Wilson seem destined for some snaps.
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Went with Martinez,just because lewerke injured his shoulder last season and Sparty has some question marks at RB & OL.Fields has a lot of hype but ya gotta see it 1st
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I went with Shea Patterson. I could see the argument for Martinez. He’s gonna put up monster #’s as long as he doesn’t get hurt.
Kinda baffles me that Fields has the most votes at 5. That’s based off of nothing but pure ‘crootin hype. He didn’t show a whole lot at Georgia as a frosh, couldn’t beat out a pretty mediocre talent in Fromm which is why he transferred.
I think Day will be just fine, but Ohio State also lost arguably its best ever coach in Meyer and Fields’ game was a better fit for Meyer’s style of spread option offense that features the QB run imo than he is with Day’s impressive bombs away Air Raid style passing game. Ohio State also has to replace 4 starters along the OL and Mike Weber’s tough bowling ball between the tackles thunder running style that complimented JK Dobbins slasher style perfectly.
Ohio State also has to replace like 4 senior WRs that lead the team in receptions, tds, and yards and all ripped off 4.4’s or better at the NFL combine. There’s still talent there like Austin Mack and Benjamin Victor but those are more big body, possession style receivers. Probably in the 4.6’s. They aren’t 4.35 like Paris Campbell or McLaurin who can rip the top off a defense and just run past every one deep or the type to catch a 6 yard pass and turn on the jets and go 60 more for a touchdown.
It doesn’t really baffle you, does it?
OSU usually has a good offense that produces the best QB and it’s being taken over by a wunderkind with a top QB recruit. That’s a guy with a cannon arm and a coach who has also run offense with dual threat QBs in his day. Last year a guy who couldn’t beat out a worse passer than Fromm stepped in and put up insane stats.
Patterson seems like he should be a shoo-in, but with Michigan, there always seems to a a proof of concept we’re waiting on. He had inconsistent moments as a junior, breaking in a new OC, one who never held the primary job. It’ll be fun if they’re good, but I can see waiting and seeing.
(This is not to hype Fields and say he will be better, just that it’s not so baffling at all)
I’m fascinated to see how this goes. Does Patterson make the jump? Was last year a sign of things to come for Martinez? Can Stanley be more than what he’s been? Fields is an experiment. NW and UW both added in talented dudes. Should be fun.
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OSU's situation is also interesting for its depth. If, for any reason, Fields weren't to finish the season as starter, we'd probably go from thinking Day is a shoe-in for a Top 1/2/3 guy to wondering if he'll have one in the Top ... 8/9/10? When was the last time there was that kind of drop off in Columbus - ever since Krenzel?
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OSU's situation is also interesting for its depth. If, for any reason, Fields weren't to finish the season as starter, we'd probably go from thinking Day is a shoe-in for a Top 1/2/3 guy to wondering if he'll have one in the Top ... 8/9/10? When was the last time there was that kind of drop off in Columbus - ever since Krenzel?
Are you asking about drop off starter to backup or from last year to this?
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Troy Smith was a drop off?Granted he didn't win a NC but put up some nice numbers and got a Heisman
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Troy Smith was a drop off?Granted he didn't win a NC but put up some nice numbers and got a Heisman
I think he means the Zwick experience?
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Martinez and Fields in the best offenses for numbers
Fields has more talent on the two deep
Martinez has last season's production
Stanley and Patterson might be better QBs at this point with their experience and my be better suited for the NFL draft one day, but they are hampered by their offensive coordinators
toss up
hey, we'll all know in a few months
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I like Michigan’s returning WR’s better than OSU’s. Especially if Tarik Black can finally stay healthy. Frosh slot receivers Mike Sainstril and Giles Jackson are really perfect 5’9ish 4.35-4.4ish slot ninja compliments to the towering trio outside of Black, Peoples-Jones, & Collins. They won’t ever see double coverage and all they’ll be asked to do is be role players, not featured go to WRs. That’s the role of Black, Collins, and DPJ.
And Black & DPJ have got 1st round NFL talent imo. It’s really just a matter of Black staying healthy. Black is as sound a receiver and as smooth as they come athletically. For DPJ it’s really all about refining his route running to match up to his ridiculous athletic skills. Nico Collins ain’t too shabby himself.
OSU’s RBs definitely significantly better than M’s. Especially with Evans gone. Michigan’s entire RB fortunes are really going to rest on the shoulders of hot shot 5 STARZ true frosh Zach Chabornnet. The position is that bad right now imo. But luckily for M the easiest position in football for a frosh to make an impact at is RB imo.
Now let’s go to the OL. Ohio State has to replace 4 starters on the OL. Michigan is returning 4 starters and they just had a drastic improvement in 2018 vs 2017 in year 1 of Ed Warriner. With the return of 4 starters they should only continue to grow and improve under Ed Warriner’s tutelage.
And Shea has a huge amount of experience and playing time advantage over Fields. At this point Shea has started probably 25 games. Fields hasn’t started one.
I guess people are probably more or less in a I’ll believe it when I see it mode when it comes to Harbaugh giving up the reins and ditching the 20 TE’s and 14 FB sets and letting Gattis go free to spread it out and do what he wants. That’s the only thing I can really think of.
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Are you asking about drop off starter to backup or from last year to this?
Starter to backup
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I like Michigan’s returning WR’s better than OSU’s. Especially if Tarik Black can finally stay healthy.
You're not wrong at least right now.The thing is how Black emerged from the pack of Collins and DPJ.If the line can give Shea some time it could be a fun season in AA.
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I think he means the Zwick experience?
I did. But am not certain it's true. Bauserman wasn't a great back-up either. And who again was behind Boeckman in 2007? Anyway, this year's back-up situation is plausibly the worst mentioned.
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You're not wrong at least right now.The thing is how Black emerged from the pack of Collins and DPJ.If the line can give Shea some time it could be a fun season in AA.
Black came in as a true frosh and during spring ball and fall camp he dominated all the db’s on that roster. He was better than the other frosh WRs and he was better than all the upperclass WRs. Hadn’t seen hype like that for an incoming true frosh WR since Manningham. All the insiders and msg boards were quoting people inside the program about how incredible Black was. He’s just had some really bad luck. Broke his left foot 3 games into the 2017 season and then broke his right foot literally like 2 weeks before the 2018 season. Talk about shitty luck.
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You're not wrong at least right now.The thing is how Black emerged from the pack of Collins and DPJ.If the line can give Shea some time it could be a fun season in AA.
I like the line this year** but don't think as much of the passing game would rely on them (as in the Harbaugh era to-date) even if they were fully meh in protection. The new system seems to disrespect slow-developing deep routes. I don't expect Shea to be asked to hold the ball and wait as often as in 2018.
** (4 returning starters, Ed Warriner as a 2nd year assistant, and probably the conference's best G/C/G combo up the middle)
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I'll be sure to keep Greg Mattison posted
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I'll be sure to keep Greg Mattison posted
GMatt is one of the best DL coaches and recruiters in the business. F’ing sucks he flipped allegiances. What a Benedict Arnold.
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But he won't be a DL coach and OSU didn't need an upgrade on LJ anyway. To me, the most interesting thing about the GMatt robbing is that OSU took him from a position where he was the most valuable to Michigan but inserted him in a spot where he's less valuable to OSU.
In case this conversation goes from nibble to bite, I do propose we move it to one of the thirty more appropriate M, OSU, or M-OSU threads.
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I did. But am not certain it's true. Bauserman wasn't a great back-up either. And who again was behind Boeckman in 2007? Anyway, this year's back-up situation is plausibly the worst mentioned.
Gunnar Hoak is the greatest backup QB in the history of Big Ten Football.
Write it down, circle it and underline it twice.
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GMatt is one of the best DL coaches and recruiters in the business. F’ing sucks he flipped allegiances. What a Benedict Arnold.
Well Warriner.....same-same
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In case this conversation goes from nibble to bite, I do propose we move it to one of the thirty more appropriate M, OSU, or M-OSU threads.
Yep, it's the CFB51 corollary to Godwin's law...
Left long enough, every thread becomes a UM/OSU thread.
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Yep, it's the CFB51 corollary to Godwin's law...
Left long enough, every thread becomes a UM/OSU thread.
Knock it off mein Fuhrer
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Well this will be locked when I get around to the next one tomorrow.
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I miss the welcome to the big ten thread for Nebraska that carried on for a few too many years.
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I'm not sure we've ever had this many votes, just to end in a tie