CFB51 College Football Fan Community
The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: Cincydawg on June 29, 2019, 09:38:01 AM
-
1. Do you buy any?
2. Do you learn useful stuff if you do?
3. Do you stand in Kroger and scan whatever is written about your team?
4. Do you think they are useful?
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Phil-Steele-magazine-2019-predictions-all-conference-power-rankings-133240802/
(https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Phil-Steele-magazine-2019-predictions-all-conference-power-rankings-133240802/)
-
They're just college football porn. You can spend a week posting here and learn more than the mags 'teach' you. Plus, they come out earlier and earlier, and thus, become more and more outdated once the season begins.
I looked for them at the airport Wednesday, but didn't see any out yet. They're great for plane rides - you become an expert on New Mexico State's defensive backfield depth.
-
"Athlon, Street & Smith and Lindy’s remain staples alongside Steele’s publication, while many others have dropped off.
Street and Smith’s is the godfather of the genre, but it’s since merged with Sporting News. Athlon is another newsstand mainstay, and Lindy’s is always a favorite in the Southeast near its Birmingham home.
Yet nobody’s seemed to capture the college football landscape like Steele. DelPopolo’s best advice to Steele in 1995 was to make it to newsstands first. People craved college football during the summer and bought what they saw. Steele’s never really subscribed to that theory. His magazine releases in late June, well after the majority of other publications. Athlon hit newsstands in late-May, for example.
"
-
Steele. Period. Guy spends too much time on it to not read what he has to say.
-
When I was religiously maintaining my NCAA football rosters from year to year (since the game is no longer released), Athlon was the best, because it has the full 2-deep with jersey numbers.
Sporting news is probably the prettiest and most colorful.
Steele tries to be predictive and has all the quirky (Nebraska is 9-1 the last 10 October night games west of the Mississippi River) stats, which can be fun (and silly).
-
I will at times drift away from the wife in Kroger (she spends too much time checking dates in my view) and stand and peruse one, whatever is on top. I don't think I've ever read anything I didn't know or learn here first.
-
I read everyone of them before the internet
up until the late 90s
-
I'll never forget the all-time WTF prediction from Athlon's 1995 preview mag......TCU's Max Knake as the 1st team All-American QB. Not Manning. Not Wuerffel. Not Frazier.
Knake went on to have more INTs than TDs and TCU went 6-5. Utter nonsense.
-
Best way to pass time at an airport. I may pick one up here or there. Used to mine them to find mistakes. Not that hard.
-
Best way to pass time at an airport. I may pick one up here or there. Used to mine them to find mistakes. Not that hard.
Small factual mistakes or typos?
-
I'll never forget the all-time WTF prediction from Athlon's 1995 preview mag......TCU's Max Knake as the 1st team All-American QB. Not Manning. Not Wuerffel. Not Frazier.
Knake went on to have more INTs than TDs and TCU went 6-5. Utter nonsense.
I enjoy this one for some reason because it's this perfect cocktail of trying to strike out on one's own and second-guessing the hype. If I stare hard enough at the stats, I can see where a person could predict that (it's a fun exercise).
And of course, the point of these things isn't actually to be right. It's because people like imagining infinite possibilities, or railing against conventional wisdom.
Looking back, I'm more impressed Frazier took the vast majority of first-team spots from Wuerffel after the season. It shows how much the sport and our understanding of it has changed.
-
was this after the reg season or after the bowl season?
-
Seems to be a mix of opinions here, which is perhaps expected. I see a lot of stuff on line, most of it redundant or speculative or silly. I don't think I'm going to learn any more about my team before the first game except PERHAPS a few snippets from practice that so-and-so looks really good.
I'm certainly not nearly as into stats and trends and whatever else as some of the mags are. I do know that Memphis is 7-4 in night games played after close wins over the past 5 seasons.
-
1. Do you buy any? I always have, but I haven't bought one this year
2. Do you learn useful stuff if you do? I used to, not so much anymore
3. Do you stand in Kroger and scan whatever is written about your team? Yup
4. Do you think they are useful? Nah, as already stated, you don't really learn anything. Also college football used to go into a cave on January 2, and not reemerge until Labor Day. The two little glimpses into the world of college football were the magazines in late May/early June, and the release of NCAA Football in late July. Now there is college football stuff year round, so there's no excitement over seeing it. To stick with the college football porn comparison, why buy Playboy when you can get more, of whatever you want, whenever you want, for free, online? I can watch an entire MSU game, of my choice, whenever I want to. So I'm not going to get excited over a singular picture of an MSU player, preselected for me.
https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Phil-Steele-magazine-2019-predictions-all-conference-power-rankings-133240802/
(https://247sports.com/college/georgia/Article/Phil-Steele-magazine-2019-predictions-all-conference-power-rankings-133240802/)
-
I read everyone of them before the internet
up until the late 90s
Same here. Back in the pre-internet and early-internet days I used to keep one with the full schedule so that if I needed to look up who the teams ahead of Ohio State were playing I could check. I haven't needed a paper magazine to do that in about 30 years so they don't serve much purpose for me.
Similarly, I would keep them to look up teams that stood out. Ie, I didn't really care about the predictions but at mid-season if some random unexpected team was 6-0 and ranked in the top-10 I could go check the article on them and learn about them and their schedule. Lots of times those surprise 6-0 top-10 teams have backloaded schedules and just haven't played any good opposition yet. Sometimes that is not the case. Pre-internet, those magazines were they way for me to check what was going on.
-
My annual go-to is Lindy’s. Buying their edition every year since 1999.
Whereas Steele’s is the most expansive and individually driven, and other’s are glossier, the Goldilocks in me finds Lindy’s just the right amount of depth and overview without drowning in too many numbers and over analysis.
-
Small factual mistakes or typos?
Both, I guess, more of the former.
-
Pre-internet, those magazines were they way for me to check what was going on.
Friend use to follow off season like nobody's business.He use to have like 3 maybe 4 subscriptions - Buckey Sports Bulletin was one.Is that still s thing?
-
My annual go-to is Lindy’s. Buying their edition every year since 1999.
Whereas Steele’s is the most expansive and individually driven, and other’s are glossier, the Goldilocks in me finds Lindy’s just the right amount of depth and overview without drowning in too many numbers and over analysis.
Forgot about that one,maybe I'll pick it up for kicks and giggles
-
I enjoy this one for some reason because it's this perfect cocktail of trying to strike out on one's own and second-guessing the hype. If I stare hard enough at the stats, I can see where a person could predict that (it's a fun exercise).
And of course, the point of these things isn't actually to be right. It's because people like imagining infinite possibilities, or railing against conventional wisdom.
Looking back, I'm more impressed Frazier took the vast majority of first-team spots from Wuerffel after the season. It shows how much the sport and our understanding of it has changed.
There was a sort of exodus at the QB position among top 1994 guys, but TCU back then was completely irrelevant. I may be subjective here, but you could see what Wuerffel did splitting time with Dean in '94, know Dean was gone, and what kind of offense Spurrier ran and come up with a healthy QB season at a top 10 program.
I don't think projecting Knake sold any more magazines, either. Meh, I guess I should've just been glad they didn't have FR Ron Powlus for ND their 1st-team AA before throwing a pass. Remember how Beano Cook had him winning 3 Heismans?
Challenge: Name one person, place, or thing more irrelevant than mid-90s Beano Cook.
-
As from me? Was Howard Cosell a thing back then?
-
was this after the reg season or after the bowl season?
I was thinking pre-bowl, but you might be right.
-
There was a sort of exodus at the QB position among top 1994 guys, but TCU back then was completely irrelevant. I may be subjective here, but you could see what Wuerffel did splitting time with Dean in '94, know Dean was gone, and what kind of offense Spurrier ran and come up with a healthy QB season at a top 10 program.
I don't think projecting Knake sold any more magazines, either. Meh, I guess I should've just been glad they didn't have FR Ron Powlus for ND their 1st-team AA before throwing a pass. Remember how Beano Cook had him winning 3 Heismans?
Challenge: Name one person, place, or thing more irrelevant than mid-90s Beano Cook.
So looking back, here’s the logic I see them trying to use. It’s not good logic, but it is what it is.
Knake was 12th nationally in yards, fifth in TDs, had a 24-7 TD-to-INT ratio. They’d just made their second bowl since the mid-60s and gone from 2 to 4 to 7 wins. So I’m guessing some wise guy said this could be different (maybe there was an updraft of TCU hype? No idea)
Now we go about knocking down the other three.
Danny: To this point, he’d twice split the job, and perhaps there was worry some new hot shot would split it again
Frazier: he’d played four games the year before and had like 60 yards in the bowl game. Only one Neb QB had been AA since a pro-style guy in the mid-70s. So perhaps the option put a cap on that, especially with an possible 2,000-yard tailback.
Manning: He’d just thrown back for 1,151 yards and 11 TDs in an offense the three team’s wife as much as much as it ran. Not that his hype wasn’t wasn't great, but I could see someone’s trying I be friends oy and not putting him there.
Anyway, I don’t know know what sold more magazines. Im guessing it was such a captive market, you could be weird just to do it and be fine.
-
SI was good at this too. They had Houston near the top one year and put Arizona #1 one season. They took some big swings.
Iirc, Beanos comment in context was 'if you ask me who will win the Heisman trophy in 20 years I'll take the quarterback of Notre dame.'. Re, powlus I think he said he will win 'two Heismans, at least.'
Of course no ND player has claimed a Heisman since Tim Brown.
-
It is all entertaining.
“For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?”
-
kids now wonder why Notre Dame is disliked
-
The Dawg fans I know who went to the game in SB said the ND fans were great.
I find some of the "statistics" entertaining, meaning they are so obscure and so trivial I know they will have zero impact or relevance on the game outcome.
I wonder how much the stat guys at ESPN et al. rely on the mags for information? Do they pore over them or have their own store of info? How about writers doing the rankings? Do the graduate assistants who make the preseason polls pay attention to them? Do folks involved in this for a living read the mags seriously?
They still sell them to someone, I expect the fans.
-
The Dawg fans I know who went to the game in SB said the ND fans were great.
I find some of the "statistics" entertaining, meaning they are so obscure and so trivial I know they will have zero impact or relevance on the game outcome.
I wonder how much the stat guys at ESPN et al. rely on the mags for information? Do they pore over them or have their own store of info? How about writers doing the rankings? Do the graduate assistants who make the preseason polls pay attention to them? Do folks involved in this for a living read the mags seriously?
They still sell them to someone, I expect the fans.
Depends how you define seriously.
The magazines are large central repositories of info, oft written up by reporters covering the team. They’re good for a rough depth chart or the offseason questions to still be answered, and some of the features are interesting (off-record quotes, the odd list. Someone did a history of every Army completion a few years back).
I don’t know anyone is saying “these preseason all conference teams and record predictions are GOLD” because the secret is, all of that is unknown. Not that they, much like anyone else, doesn’t look closely at lots of info and understand the consensus before marking some educated guesses.
-
My question is just how much attention do these gets from folks who do this for a living, including TV analysts and stat guys.
I know this is unanswerable as a fact. I have this "notion" of the ESPN stat room replete with dog eared magazines of Lindy's etc., but probably not. Maybe they look through them for tidbits to add to their computer based stat system.
Everything I have read about UGA preseason says the same thing over and over again. Boring.
-
kids now wonder why Notre Dame is disliked
Because of Beano Cook?
-
My question is just how much attention do these gets from folks who do this for a living, including TV analysts and stat guys.
Of course they do - they're stealing off of everybody so they can weasel in on just a little credit at the end
-
Because of Beano Cook?
His neck danced like no other.
-
Because of Beano Cook?
and the other media folks that fawned over them
-
and the other media folks that fawned over them
We all have a wheelhouse of when we paid the most attention to the sport. If you're trotting out 75 year old commentators (no offense to anyone here), their wheelhouse is going to be antiquated. Beano Cook was old as dirt in the early 90s, so his wheelhouse was probably 1949 or something.
My wheelhouse is the 90s, basically. So when I see a team in 2047 that reminds me of another team, it'll probably be some obscure reference to the 90s. But I wouldn't expect to be on TV, lol.
But as with my memory of Harry Carey slurring "Take me out to the Ballgame" being mine due to having missed his long career calling Cards and White Sox and then Cubs games, so too is my memory of Beano Cook's most oft-used phrase said on air as being "Notre Dame". You could be asking him about the Texas-OU game, and he'd shoehorn ND in there somehow. ND's got a hotshot QB recruit? Multiple Heismans! He couldn't help himself.
As with things of this nature, it wasn't Cook's fault, it's whoever decided to keep him on the air's fault. Sure, people like continuity, but ugh. Enough. You know what? You get to stay on air if you roll with the times, not if you're stodgy and clueless. Every time Tim Brando insists on the VMI score and the little rhyme that goes with it, I want to shoot the TV. Does he STILL do that?
-
But as with my memory of Harry Carey slurring "Take me out to the Ballgame" being mine due to having missed his long career calling Cards and White Sox and then Cubs games, so too is my memory of Beano Cook's most oft-used phrase said on air as being "Notre Dame". You could be asking him about the Texas-OU game, and he'd shoehorn ND in there somehow.
Like Cosell on MNF it could be crunch time in the middle of a great game and "HAAWARD" as Merideth called him would start caterwauling on about ALI blah,blah,blah.I don't know how Frank & Don put up with him for as long as they did
-
Howard Frank and Don were classics, really a party of Americana. I think a lot of us watched MNF just because of them, to listen to Frank try and call the game while the other two goofed around.
-
We all have a wheelhouse of when we paid the most attention to the sport. If you're trotting out 75 year old commentators (no offense to anyone here), their wheelhouse is going to be antiquated. Beano Cook was old as dirt in the early 90s, so his wheelhouse was probably 1949 or something.
My wheelhouse is the 90s, basically. So when I see a team in 2047 that reminds me of another team, it'll probably be some obscure reference to the 90s. But I wouldn't expect to be on TV, lol.
But as with my memory of Harry Carey slurring "Take me out to the Ballgame" being mine due to having missed his long career calling Cards and White Sox and then Cubs games, so too is my memory of Beano Cook's most oft-used phrase said on air as being "Notre Dame". You could be asking him about the Texas-OU game, and he'd shoehorn ND in there somehow. ND's got a hotshot QB recruit? Multiple Heismans! He couldn't help himself.
As with things of this nature, it wasn't Cook's fault, it's whoever decided to keep him on the air's fault. Sure, people like continuity, but ugh. Enough. You know what? You get to stay on air if you roll with the times, not if you're stodgy and clueless. Every time Tim Brando insists on the VMI score and the little rhyme that goes with it, I want to shoot the TV. Does he STILL do that?
It’s interesting how our perceptions form.
Cook was all of 60 in 1991. I think part of the nature of commentators is they’re on balance unmemorable or they’re complained about. It also sounds like Cook was bombastic, whether he was predicting two heismans, saying he’d root for the Russians over the Irish or doing whatever else.
(Granted, I didn’t have cable in the 1990s and didn’t watch the sport in earnest until 2000, so Terry Bowden was the one I ragged on. Looking back, probably fine).
-
I remember thinking Beano never said anything I viewed as interesting and his voice was grating to me. I did not understand why they featured him at all, I guessed it was that he has history somewhere.
This was back when I paid some attention to what TV analysts had to say as if they knew stuff I didn't.
-
I remember thinking Beano never said anything I viewed as interesting and his voice was grating to me. I did not understand why they featured him at all, I guessed it was that he has history somewhere.
This was back when I paid some attention to what TV analysts had to say as if they knew stuff I didn't.
Didn't he sort of revolutionize the role of SID or something? Was sort of a stat head before that was a thing, then rode it for 50 years, once others most others had surpassed him in his thing.
-
Didn't he sort of revolutionize the role of SID or something? Was sort of a stat head before that was a thing, then rode it for 50 years, once others most others had surpassed him in his thing.
Internet says he was an aggressive pusher of Pitt when he worked there. Back when you had to beg papers/TV for space.
I think a guy like that got on TV and popped because he was weird. Shoot, we’re still talking about his predictions from the 1990s. If everyone remembers the TV guy from 20 years ago, a person who makes TV says that’s probably a sign he was worth putting on.
-
there is little chance beano wasn't drunk- it was a matter of 'how drunk' and made him worth checking in on. he was like the disagreeable broken record guy at the end of the bar thinking he was saying something of importance when he was just saying the same thing over and over, and becoming something of a 'pet'... sorta like crunchimusmaximus was to the SEC board back in it's heyday. some folks are wired to tolerate that kind of personality, and some aren't. those who are find the personality amusing at times and endearing more than not- blind in consistency and regardless of what evidence is presented to them..... the 'drunk' thing made beano like some sort of caricature of a frat boy who never grew up- just got old.
-
I think a guy like that got on TV and popped because he was weird. Shoot, we’re still talking about his predictions from the 1990s. If everyone remembers the TV guy from 20 years ago, a person who makes TV says that’s probably a sign he was worth putting on.
Huh? I’m completely missing the meaning of what you’re trying to convey.
By the time I was seeing a lot of Beano Cook it was already the late 90s and he was getting a lot of air time on ESPN as a one-off college football analyst. They avoided putting Beano in group settings and right away it was apparent he was “old-school” to his own detriment - his college football world came down to only about 4 or 5 programs - Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State (+ Pitt) - and of those he knew their 1970s rosters better than the current ones.
Everybody else, no matter how relevant, was too new and too much of a wild child for his liking. For example, Beano couldn’t handle anything about Spurrier, from his ambitious offenses to his openness with the media, which is strange to look back on given what a mainstay Spurrier is/was for the SEC.
And yes, I am also someone who jokes about his predictions. I remember Beano picking against the powerful Ken Dorsey QBed Canes every chance he got, from what I could tell because their opponents like Penn State and Boston College were more “traditional” and therefore deserved to win.
-
I enjoyed Howard Cosell much more than Beano
but I could tolerate Beano similar to Lou Holtz or Lee Corso
apparently the TV ratings folks think it's wise to have "that guy" on the set to attract eyes and ears for whatever reason
-
Huh? I’m completely missing the meaning of what you’re trying to convey.
By the time I was seeing a lot of Beano Cook it was already the late 90s and he was getting a lot of air time on ESPN as a one-off college football analyst. They avoided putting Beano in group settings and right away it was apparent he was “old-school” to his own detriment - his college football world came down to only about 4 or 5 programs - Notre Dame, Oklahoma, Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State (+ Pitt) - and of those he knew their 1970s rosters better than the current ones.
Everybody else, no matter how relevant, was too new and too much of a wild child for his liking. For example, Beano couldn’t handle anything about Spurrier, from his ambitious offenses to his openness with the media, which is strange to look back on given what a mainstay Spurrier is/was for the SEC.
And yes, I am also someone who jokes about his predictions. I remember Beano picking against the powerful Ken Dorsey QBed Canes every chance he got, from what I could tell because their opponents like Penn State and Boston College were more “traditional” and therefore deserved to win.
It was in response to the idea he had a few things and was kinda surpassed, riding on past accomplishments.
But I’m arguing he was a compelling, bombastic TV figure that was memorable because he was odd. And people who are memorable because they’re odd are often the ones people put on TV because they get watched.
What’s also interesting is the sense he was this extreme institution. He didn’t make his National CFB TV debut until age 51, going to ESPN at 54. He didn’t hit a decade in TV until 1992, at which point people already felt he’d been around since Army competed for titles. I can’t recall when he cycled off, but I don’t think he was much of a thing after 2005?
-
What’s also interesting is the sense he was this extreme institution. He didn’t make his National CFB TV debut until age 51, going to ESPN at 54. He didn’t hit a decade in TV until 1992, at which point people already felt he’d been around since Army competed for titles. I can’t recall when he cycled off, but I don’t think he was much of a thing after 2005?
That’s another good way to put it. By the time Beano found himself on TV his veteran journalism ways already a yesteryear approach to sports, not to mention completely fossilized by the time the internet age of blogs, message boards, and live streaming changed everything.
-
but I could tolerate Beano similar to Lou Holtz or Lee Corso
I never really liked Holtz. And when he started going "Dr Lou", it seriously jumped the shark.
Corso doesn't look well. I liked him, but he is REALLY starting to look like he's having age/cognitive issues. He just seems to have lost a step cognitively.
-
I enjoyed Howard Cosell much more than Beano
but I could tolerate Beano similar to Lou Holtz or Lee Corso
apparently the TV ratings folks think it's wise to have "that guy" on the set to attract eyes and ears for whatever reason
Maybe you should give it a try,extra coin could come in handy
-
Corso and Holtz both sound drunk often, but I think it's age, which catches us all.
As they feature younger guys more often now the difference is more and more apparent.
-
Remember Pat Summerall & Tom Brookshire back in the day on CBS? - with all the little monitors in the background rolling.They were pretty young when you think about it not a whole lot different than today just a whole lot more
-
Yeah, I recall watching football on a 13 inch color TV in grad school with rabbit ears and a tuner knob and three channels.
Why do they put all those glorious TVs in the front entrance in Costco? I can't figure that one out. I'm also wondering what to do with these 5 large screen TVs I bought.
-
Why do they put all those glorious TVs in the front entrance in Costco? I can't figure that one out. I'm also wondering what to do with these 5 large screen TVs I bought.
I was at a house recently where they'd show you what to do with them all. Big screen TV in the living room. Big screen in the kitchen. Big screen in the garage. Big screen on the patio (adjacent to the kitchen). Big screens in every bedroom. Even a TV in the bathroom.
I think I was getting screen anxiety just being there lol...
-
I never really liked Holtz. And when he started going "Dr Lou", it seriously jumped the shark.
Corso doesn't look well. I liked him, but he is REALLY starting to look like he's having age/cognitive issues. He just seems to have lost a step cognitively.
Corso had a stroke a few years back. He is not well. He is not on the set all that much, and probably more than he should be. Appears ESPN is going to hang with him as long as he can go at all.
-
I do like and appreciate Lou. Best wishes.