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The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: CousinFreddie on November 27, 2017, 08:04:25 AM

Title: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 27, 2017, 08:04:25 AM
... in the year it can hurt but probably not help the B12 winner get to the playoffs.

But regardless we’ve got it and it’s a good matchup ... hard to beat a good team like TCU twice.  Usually games between these two teams are close and the Froggies occasionally pull the upset:

http://www.soonerstats.com/football/opponents/details.cfm?oppid=68#.WhwLH2JOmEc (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/opponents/details.cfm?oppid=68#.WhwLH2JOmEc)

Patterson is a truly great coach with huge success from such a relatively small university.  What will he and his coaches conjure up to jam a stick in the spokes of the highest yardage offense in OU’s long and storied history?  

Will the Frogs pull out some of their own offensive tricks to exploit the sometimes porous OU defense?

Who knows what nefarious schemes lurk in the minds of Horned Frog Nation?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2017, 09:38:37 AM
theres a part of me that wants OU to win and go on to be National Champs

and then there a part of me rooting for TCU just to drive home how stupid it
is for the Big12 to have a CCG 

not sure which part will be in control next Sat but it will be interesting
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on November 27, 2017, 09:54:13 AM
I was skeptical but willing to see how it played out this year.  As I was expecting, it will have no good purpose other than a money grab and could cost the Big 12 a CFB playoff spot.

That said, I'm glad to see the Sooners and Baker Mayfield one additional time and this looks like a great game.

320 mentioned wanting an 8 team playoff, well we pretty much have it this weekend with Clemson-Miami, Auburn-Georgia, Wisconsin-Ohio State, and OU-TCU.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 10:24:53 AM
theres a part of me that wants OU to win and go on to be National Champs
That part of you needs to be exorcised.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2017, 11:52:48 AM
That part of you needs to be exorcised.
I hear ya but if UT isnt a part of it I normally root for the Big12
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 12:03:53 PM
I hear ya but if UT isnt a part of it I normally root for the Big12
I guess that's loyalty but I'm not really even sure how that plays out for Texas.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on November 27, 2017, 01:33:17 PM
If the Sooners win and go to the playoffs, TCU goes to a New Years 6 bowl and the other Big 12 teams, including Texas, move up a notch in the bowls.  It also means substantially more money for the conference.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 02:49:49 PM
If the Sooners win and go to the playoffs, TCU goes to a New Years 6 bowl and the other Big 12 teams, including Texas, move up a notch in the bowls.  It also means substantially more money for the conference.
Does it mean Texas' schedule starts to look more appetizing in upcoming years?  Do Arkansas and Nebraska join the conference?

No?  Then what do I care.  The Big 12 is why I stare at a season ticket package with Kansas, Baylor, I-State, etc. on the menu.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on November 27, 2017, 05:30:41 PM
There will be a new Big 12 trophy presented to the winner.  It would look good in the new Switzer Center.
(https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-018b2c9eb99f862447bfea4ea541438c.jpg)
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2017, 05:36:19 PM
did you hear that thunder

that was the football gods reacting to your post
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 05:55:06 PM
A half dozen championships blemished by scandal and cheating and they still erect buildings and name them after Switzer.

Only, and I mean only, at OU.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on November 27, 2017, 07:20:39 PM
What I imagine Brown County looks like.


(https://ameripics.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/joe-btfsplk.jpg?w=640)
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 27, 2017, 09:51:43 PM
Yep, he’s a hater
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 09:56:03 PM
I agree, there’s no defending it.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2017, 11:11:57 PM
... in the year it can hurt but probably not help the B12 winner get to the playoffs.

But regardless we’ve got it and it’s a good matchup ... hard to beat a good team like TCU twice.  Usually games between these two teams are close and the Froggies occasionally pull the upset:

http://www.soonerstats.com/football/opponents/details.cfm?oppid=68#.WhwLH2JOmEc (http://www.soonerstats.com/football/opponents/details.cfm?oppid=68#.WhwLH2JOmEc)

Patterson is a truly great coach with huge success from such a relatively small university.  What will he and his coaches conjure up to jam a stick in the spokes of the highest yardage offense in OU’s long and storied history?  

Will the Frogs pull out some of their own offensive tricks to exploit the sometimes porous OU defense?

Who knows what nefarious schemes lurk in the minds of Horned Frog Nation?
I tell ya what I'm reasonably confident about, Fred.  Mike Stoops will thoroughly prepare for a game-plan that TCU has no intention of throwing out there.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on November 28, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
I tell ya what I'm reasonably confident about, Fred.  Mike Stoops will thoroughly prepare for a game-plan that TCU has no intention of throwing out there.
:sign0151:  
Agreed.  He's probably still working on WVU's wildcat plays.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 28, 2017, 12:42:00 PM
Yeah fortunately OU has had the offense to outscore all but one of its opponents so far.  I think we were up on TCU by 38-14 (which btw was almost as bad as the OU-USC Orange Bowl half time score over a decade ago, but in reverse) earlier this month.  Hopefully Patterson and co haven’t figured out to stop that yet.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 01, 2017, 10:07:56 AM
Any chance TCU takes a dive for this game?  Doesn't it cost the conference money or something?

And I'm wondering about the dynamics from each side.  Does OU come out tense and under the gun, knowing that they have to win this?  Or do they come out super-pumped because next stop is the playoff.

Does TCU come out all loose with nothing to lose?  Or dispassionate because they have nothing to gain?  (except the win)

My prediction is 38-14 OU, and I'll likely be putting up the Christmas tree before halftime.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 01, 2017, 10:23:02 AM
I like BroCo's prediction but OU has held only UTEP, Tulane, and Kansas to 14 or under.  Shoot, even texsa scored 24 on them.  I'll say OU 42 TCU 31.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 01, 2017, 11:04:56 AM
I like BroCo's prediction but OU has held only UTEP, Tulane, and Kansas to 14 or under.  Shoot, even texsa scored 24 on them.
Kenny Hill is just not as convincing to me lately.  If he catches fire, OU will have its hands full.  But he's been pretty quiet the past several games.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 01, 2017, 11:07:03 AM
I'm taking the Sooners and giving the measly 7 points
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 01, 2017, 01:53:05 PM
NewsOK had some interesting stats regarding rematches (http://newsok.com/college-football-rematches-often-swap-verdicts/article/5574286?custom_click=rss).  There have been 57 CCG/Bowl game rematches with the results split evenly 28-28-1.  It's going to be interesting to see how Stanford-USC, OU-TCU and Auburn-UGA play out.

To date the Sooners have played in 4 rematches, winning them all.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 01, 2017, 02:33:17 PM
I still think the XII had every intent to add 2 more schools when they voted in the CCG.

They should have just gone ahead and added BYU and Colorado St.  Texas bungled it up by insisting on Houston, and the LGBXYZ decided to get sideways with BYU so it was all shot out of the saddle.  Plus I think some suspected that Nebbie might place a return call.

Once we were reduced to considering Cincinnati and Houston, then pffftt.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 01, 2017, 03:32:17 PM
I still think the XII had every intent to add 2 more schools when they voted in the CCG.

They should have just gone ahead and added BYU and Colorado St.  Texas bungled it up by insisting on Houston, and the LGBXYZ decided to get sideways with BYU so it was all shot out of the saddle.  Plus I think some suspected that Nebbie might place a return call.

Once we were reduced to considering Cincinnati and Houston, then pffftt.

I still think the networks played a roll in our failure to add teams
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 01, 2017, 03:37:03 PM
I still think the networks played a roll in our failure to add teams
I'm glad they did, given that we were down to Cincy and Houston.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 04:04:57 PM
TCU always plays OU tough, long before they were in the same conf together.  I have a healthy respect for the Frogs and for Patterson.

I’m just hoping we come out the other end with more points.  OU 28 Frogs 27 (or OU 14 Frogs 13 or whatever) would be fine with me.

Boomer!
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: utee94 on December 01, 2017, 04:09:22 PM
TCU always plays OU tough, long before they were in the same conf together.  I have a healthy respect for the Frogs and for Patterson.

I’m just hoping we come out the other end with more points.  OU 28 Frogs 27 (or OU 14 Frogs 13 or whatever) would be fine with me.

Boomer!
38-20 (and it wasn't that close) says your assertion is false.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 01, 2017, 04:23:23 PM
I think it's going to be a chippy game.

Patterson has been yapping all week about this that or the other thing that OU has done that ticked him off.  I'm sure he hasn't told his players that personal fouls are OK as long as they take Mayfield out of the game, but I imagine that they've gotten that message nevertheless.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 01, 2017, 04:41:42 PM
I'm sure he hasn't told his players that personal fouls are OK as long as they take Mayfield out of the game
Aw, come on - really?...
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 05:06:18 PM
38-20 (and it wasn't that close) says your assertion is false.
Have you looked at the record between OU and TCU?  The MOV is usually single digits.  The alltime PF-PA is 23-19 in favor of Oklahoma.  Since 2012, the MOV (i.e. =OU-TCU) has been
2017: +18
2016: +6
2015: +1
2014: -4
2013: +3
2012: +7
They play us tough.  In the entire record there are very few beatdowns, definitely nothing as large as by how much we occasionally (crimson &) cream Texas (e.g. 60 something to 13 or whatever).  Check for yourself:
http://soonerstats.com/football/opponents/details.cfm?oppid=68#.WiHREEtrxBw
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 01, 2017, 05:14:47 PM
Patterson has been the one coach who has consistently handled Big 12 offenses.  I don't know why other teams haven't been able to replicate that.  He doesn't get the top recruits but he always has studs in his defense,
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 05:25:38 PM
I'm glad they did, given that we were down to Cincy and Houston.
Huh, what's this?  I must be hallucinating.  I actually agree with BC on sumthin :017:
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 01, 2017, 05:42:08 PM
Aw, come on - really?...
You're saying that he HAS told his players to take Mayfield out?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 06:20:26 PM
Patterson has been the one coach who has consistently handled Big 12 offenses.  I don't know why other teams haven't been able to replicate that.  He doesn't get the top recruits but he always has studs in his defense,
Yep, he's pretty savvy in general.  Gets more out of his players than the vast majority of coaches out there in college football, that's for sure, and it pays off.  TCU is a consistently strong program.  They have a 75% winning pct in Patterson's 17 years there, with lots of 10+ win seasons.  Impressive stuff.  One of those little schools that could.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 06:22:05 PM
Btw, speaking of TCU, did DF ever make it over here?  I always enjoyed his no-nonsense posts.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 01, 2017, 06:43:45 PM
Btw, speaking of TCU, did DF ever make it over here?  I always enjoyed his no-nonsense posts.
Yes, he did, Fred.  I've seen some of his posts on the B1G board.  The "coaching changes" thread.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 01, 2017, 08:41:32 PM
Thanks Cdub

I've sent him a pm asking him to join in the fun over here, with the CCG looming straight ahead!
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 11:07:19 AM
There's a game today.

One hour and 24 minutes to kickoff.

It might be interesting to watch.

BOOMER!
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 02, 2017, 03:09:30 PM
Is TCU really the 2nd best team in this conference?  What a joke.

Oklahoma and the 9 nitwits.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 02, 2017, 03:14:52 PM
Let me be more clear.

1) Oklahoma
2) 8 nitwits that could beat each other on any given day
3) Kansas
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 04:01:40 PM
Pretty good win for the Sooners.

I hope TCU gets a NYD bowl, but I suspect they won't after losing by 24.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 02, 2017, 04:08:51 PM
congratulations sooners

lets get 2 more
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 02, 2017, 04:10:36 PM
Awesome!  Way to go Sooners!
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 02, 2017, 04:11:05 PM
SOONER!

What an awesome win! First time any team has won 3 consecutive B12 titles.  Lincoln keeps the line moving.

I would think TCU gets the B12's NY6 bowl.  I can't see them putting OSU ahead of them since TCU won the head to head.

EDIT:  OU has won 3 in a row twice, 2006-2008 and 2015-2017.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: DevilFroggy on December 02, 2017, 05:17:58 PM
Not surprised at all by the outcome. Good job Sooners, I'll probably root for y'all in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 06:26:40 PM
SOONER!

What an awesome win! First time any team has won 3 consecutive B12 titles.  Lincoln keeps the line moving.

I would think TCU gets the B12's NY6 bowl.  I can't see them putting OSU ahead of them since TCU won the head to head.
I think that teams #5 through #11 in the CFP rankings, plus the top G5 team, get the New Year's bowls.  I don't think TCU will maintain its #11 ranking.
But I hope they do.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 02, 2017, 06:47:59 PM
Not surprised at all by the outcome. Good job Sooners, I'll probably root for y'all in the playoffs.
Thanks DF.  Frogs are always a tough draw but OU is running on all cylinders at the moment.
Good to see you again.  Hope alls well your way.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 06:56:03 PM
Good to see you, D-Frog.

I know you hated to see Todd Graham fired, but I think you avoided feeling betrayed when he inevitably would have ducked out to his next "destination job."

Don't know that Herm Edwards is the right replacement, though.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 06:58:18 PM
I'm thinking that OU winds up no worse than #2 in the CFP rankings tomorrow morning.  If Miami upsets Clemson, probably #1.

But the Committee has undervalued Big 12 teams every week, so I probably should have no confidence in the prediction I just made.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: DevilFroggy on December 02, 2017, 07:12:51 PM
Good to see you, D-Frog.

I know you hated to see Todd Graham fired, but I think you avoided feeling betrayed when he inevitably would have ducked out to his next "destination job."

Don't know that Herm Edwards is the right replacement, though.
Graham could have already bolted ASU after the '13 or '14 seasons if he wanted to. He was on his way to coaching his 7th season here for crying out loud. Despite his reputation as a job hopper he genuinely wanted to stay at ASU. His wife absolutely loves it here as does the rest of his family. He treated the university like a place he wanted to stay, unfortunately he didn't do enough per our AD's standards.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 02, 2017, 07:17:08 PM
I doubt that anyone who rooted for his Rice, Tulsa, or Pitt teams would have your level of confidence, but you might be right.

In any event, good luck with your new guy.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 03, 2017, 08:30:03 AM
I think that teams #5 through #11 in the CFP rankings, plus the top G5 team, get the New Year's bowls.  I don't think TCU will maintain its #11 ranking.
But I hope they do.
I was thinking the B12 had a tie-in but you've always had the handle on bowl games.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 10:20:57 AM
I was thinking the B12 had a tie-in but you've always had the handle on bowl games.
I at least partially misspoke there, CG.  The Big 12 and SEC signed an agreement awhile back (2014-ish?) that their champions would meet in the Sugar Bowl.  Or their highest-ranked teams if the champions are in the CFP.  But that's only in years when the Sugar Bowl isn't being used for a semifinal or the championship game in the CFP.  It's like the Big Ten-Pac-12 relationship with the Rose Bowl.

But that means that my assertion that only the top 11 plus the top G5 team go to "NYD" bowls must not be correct.  Because in years when the Sugar Bowl and/or Rose Bowl aren't in the playoff, they would take their respective conference champs (or highest-ranked teams . . .).  Maybe that "top 11" requirement is correct this year because both the Sugar and the Rose are involved in the playoff.  Or maybe "top 11+top G5" goes for at-large slots in general.

From the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge ("Sugar Bowl): In May 2012, the Big 12 and SEC announced plans to create a new bowl game, the Champions Bowl, that would play host to the champions of those two conferences. However, by November 2012, it was decided instead that the Sugar Bowl will play host to the champions of the Big 12 and SEC, beginning in January 2015. If one of those teams takes part in the national semifinal, a team from the same conference will take their place. Also, it will become one of the bowls that will rotate as a spot for a national semifinal game. On January 1, 2015, the Sugar Bowl matched Big 10 champion, Ohio State against SEC champion Alabama in one of two semi-final games for the college football playoff championship in its inaugural year.

More from the Font ("College Football Playoff New Year's Six"): The College Football Playoff (CFP) New Year's Six (NY6) bowls are the top six major NCAA Division I FBS bowl games: the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl, Orange Bowl, Cotton Bowl, Peach Bowl, and Fiesta Bowl. The New Year's Six represent six of the ten oldest bowl games currently played at the FBS level. These 6 top-tier bowl games rotate the hosting of the two semifinal games, which determine the teams that play in the final College Football Playoff National Championship game. The rotation is set on a three-year cycle with the following pairings: Rose/Sugar, Orange/Cotton, and Fiesta/Peach.

The selection committee seeds and pairs the top four teams, and along with their final CFP rankings determine the participants for the other four non-playoff New Year's Six bowls that are not hosting the semifinals that year. These four non-playoff bowls are also referred to as the Selection Committee bowl games. These six games focus on the top 12 teams in the rankings, with only five teams ranked lower than 12th (all five were still ranked in the top 20) having ever played in the New Year's Six since the College Football Playoff system was inaugurated.

Twelve schools are selected for these major, top tier bowls. These include the champions of the "Power Five" conferences (ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12, and SEC). The highest-ranked champion from the "Group of Five" conferences (The American, Conference USA, MAC, Mountain West, and Sun Belt) is guaranteed a berth if the group's top team is not in the playoff.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 03, 2017, 10:33:58 AM
Earlier in this thread I was taking a shot at Mike Stoops so now I need to give him credit.  The 2nd half was a beauty for his defense, completely shutting out the Frogs.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 10:44:14 AM
Same here, CG.

I'd still rather see Mike move on--maybe to go work for little brother Mark at Kentucky--but the Sooner defense really came through yesterday, especially in the 2nd half.

And even on those two 1st-half TD passes, the TCU players were well-covered.  Kenny Hill threw two perfect passes, and the Frog WRs made two perfect catches.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 03, 2017, 10:56:47 AM
That is what I was thinking of, the Champions Bowl.  From the Big 12 site:
2016 Big 12 Bowl Selection Process
College Football Playoff (CFP) Selection Process
The CFP Selection Committee ranks the top 25 teams and selects the four teams to participate in the semifinal games. Then, after the contract bowls are filled based on conference agreements, the Committee will assign teams to fill the remaining New Year's bowls. Each conference champion from the contract bowls (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, SEC & Pac 12) has a guaranteed spot in its contracted bowl or in another New Year's bowl (Sugar, Rose or Cotton) if the contracted bowl is a semifinal game and the conference champion is not selected to participate in a semifinal game. The highest ranked champion from the Mountain West, American, Conference USA, Sun Belt or MAC is guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl and the remaining spots are filled based on the rankings of teams after the contract bowls have been filled. 

So this means?  :confuse:
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 03, 2017, 11:00:22 AM
Same here, CG.

I'd still rather see Mike move on--maybe to go work for little brother Mark at Kentucky--but the Sooner defense really came through yesterday, especially in the 2nd half.

And even on those two 1st-half TD passes, the TCU players were well-covered.  Kenny Hill threw two perfect passes, and the Frog WRs made two perfect catches.
I agree.  I just think it is time for a fresh perspective on the D side.  Also, schools can add a 10th coach next year, it will be interesting to see what position OU use that on.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2017, 11:08:58 AM
Brent Venables???

why has he not been approached by Tennessee?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 11:18:11 AM
That is what I was thinking of, the Champions Bowl.  From the Big 12 site:
2016 Big 12 Bowl Selection Process
College Football Playoff (CFP) Selection Process
The CFP Selection Committee ranks the top 25 teams and selects the four teams to participate in the semifinal games. Then, after the contract bowls are filled based on conference agreements, the Committee will assign teams to fill the remaining New Year's bowls. Each conference champion from the contract bowls (ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, SEC & Pac 12) has a guaranteed spot in its contracted bowl or in another New Year's bowl (Sugar, Rose or Cotton) if the contracted bowl is a semifinal game and the conference champion is not selected to participate in a semifinal game. The highest ranked champion from the Mountain West, American, Conference USA, Sun Belt or MAC is guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl and the remaining spots are filled based on the rankings of teams after the contract bowls have been filled.

So this means?  :confuse:
Hmmm.  I'm scratching my head too.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 11:23:16 AM
Brent Venables???

why has he not been approached by Tennessee?
Maybe he has and said no.  Doesn't want to coach in the middle of a dumpster fire.
I think Brent would be a great pick for a head coach.  But he seems happy to be at Clemson, where he is one of the highest-paid assistants in the country.  Maybe the right job will come along at some point and he will jump at the opportunity.
I wonder if he envisioned himself as Bob Stoops' successor at OU until Lincoln Riley came along.

Good luck with Scott Frost, Fearless.  I hope that he gets the Big Red ship righted by 17 September 2022, when I hope to be in Lincoln.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2017, 12:12:28 PM
thanks, I appreciate the good wishes

would Riley and the Sooners open up the bank to bring Brent back as the D-coordinator?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 03, 2017, 12:28:06 PM
Adding to the congrats FF, although I have some friends at UCF and I know they’re bummed.

But anyway I hope he gets NU back where they should be.  Would be great to have another Game of the Century in 2021, at the 50th anniversary of the last one.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 03, 2017, 12:38:29 PM
UCF is in a better spot today than before Scott arrived, it sucks to lose a guy like that, but with a little luck they can build on the past season
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 12:46:42 PM
thanks, I appreciate the good wishes

would Riley and the Sooners open up the bank to bring Brent back as the D-coordinator?
I think the answer to that question is complicated.

1.  Mike would have to leave.  I don't know this, but I suspect that there has been some tacit arrangement that Mike would be allowed to leave of his own volition.

2.  Brent would have to want to come back.  I don't think he holds a grudge against OU, but I wonder if maybe he's just moved on, with no intention of looking back.

3.  OU would have to be willing to pony up the money to at least equal Brent's salary at Clemson.  And Joe Castiglione is known for being very careful with a dollar.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 03, 2017, 12:48:33 PM
One of the many Buckeye fans on the B1G board posted some good comments about how UCF sent Frost away--with thanks for a job well-done and best wishes for him at Nebraska.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2017, 02:27:56 PM
congratulations sooners

lets get 2 more
"Let's"?

That's some orange blood you got there.

You show me a sooner fan that won't be pulling for Mizzou and I'll pay to upholster your recliner.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 05, 2017, 03:29:29 PM
Well that's just too easy.

I won't be pulling for Mizzou.  They left the conference.  F em.

320, you can send that bill to BC.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 05, 2017, 03:44:59 PM
"Let's"?

That's some orange blood you got there.

You show me a sooner fan that won't be pulling for Mizzou and I'll pay to upholster your recliner.
I really dont care about who roots for who
I always pull for the Big12 so just bugger off
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 05, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
CH dont you ever question my allegiance to UT

I was a Horn before your daddy knew your momma
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2017, 04:22:26 PM
I was a Horn before your daddy knew your momma
Key word above = "was"

Yeah you just kick back and pull for your sooners to win their 29th national championship.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 05, 2017, 04:26:38 PM
I was pulling for Mizzou because Josh Heuple was OC.  Now he is HC at UCF.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2017, 04:29:34 PM
I won't be pulling for Mizzou.  They left the conference.  F em.
Oh sure I get it.  Who cares if pitiful Texas eeks out its 7th win.  Pffft.  Child's play for OU.
Now if we were in the national championship hunt, you can't tell me things wouldn't be different.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2017, 04:38:38 PM
I was pulling for Mizzou because Josh Heuple was OC.
Did that guy go on a steady diet of cherry pie since playing football?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 05, 2017, 05:15:03 PM
Oh sure I get it.  Who cares if pitiful Texas eeks out its 7th win.  Pffft.  Child's play for OU.
Now if we were in the national championship hunt, you can't tell me things wouldn't be different.
As old timers here will remember, I cheered for Texas in the 2005 and 2009 MNC games.  Crazy but true.  It’s a conference thing.  So yeah I can tell you that. 

It’s kind of like Nebraska historically.  We were in the same conf so I cheered for them in bowl games.  Texas is the new Nebraska.  <shrug>
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 05, 2017, 05:27:44 PM
As old timers here will remember, I cheered for Texas in the 2005 and 2009 MNC games.  Crazy but true.  It’s a conference thing.  So yeah I can tell you that.
Well, I will confess that I cheered for the conference too, back when it was worth cheering for.  This conference is now 8 schools with no other options, 1 school that wants a TV channel, and 1 school that still thinks Longhorn affiliation is beneficial to recruiting Texas.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 05, 2017, 06:37:39 PM
As old timers here will remember, I cheered for Texas in the 2005 and 2009 MNC games.  Crazy but true.  It’s a conference thing.  So yeah I can tell you that.

It’s kind of like Nebraska historically.  We were in the same conf so I cheered for them in bowl games.  Texas is the new Nebraska.  <shrug>
I remember Fred
Hell Ive always been that way
during the season I hope you lose big time
but during bowl season I always pull for any Big12 team
and if truth be known I even pull for Nebraska and aggie anytime unless they are playing a Big12 team
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 05, 2017, 09:08:29 PM
 Texas is the new Nebraska.  <shrug>
gee, that's gotta smell like Bevo's backside
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 05, 2017, 10:00:02 PM
We have scoreboard on Bevo’s backside, and that smells awright wid me.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 05, 2017, 10:03:00 PM
enjoy it while you can cause someday that ol worm will turn
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 05, 2017, 10:25:08 PM
No doubt, so I will!
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 06, 2017, 12:07:28 PM
Y'all crack me up, with your conference rooting.  The irony is that's supposed to be for the "SEC! SEC! SEC!" crowd, but I and so many others despise our rivals and I don't ever want to see them succeed.  Nothing good for LSU comes from seeing Alabama in the playoffs again, or Auburn winning a bowl, etc.  I hope every SEC team is embarrassed in every ooc game they play, ever.  The lone exceptions being teams hardly ever see and don't really compete against, like UGA or Kentucky.  

I know a lot of guys (and gals) who will tout the strength of the SEC....because it makes their team look good, they think.  But very few who will actually be rooting for those other teams.  

Horns rooting for Sooners, Sooners rooting for Horns.....it ain't natural.  
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 12:30:23 PM
I know a lot of guys (and gals) who will tout the strength of the SEC....because it makes their team look good, they think.
Most SEC teams proclaim greatness by association.  A few don't need to do this.
Since joining the SEC, Texas A&M has been the worst.  They are sycophantic to a pathetic degree, and it's downright embarrassing.  If it wasn't for the maroon on an Aggie t-shirt, you wouldn't know what school the shirt was actually repping, because all the SEC logos get in the way.

Texas A&M has always esteemed itself on a relative scale.  Being able to hang around with Alabama and LSU makes Aggies feel successful.  And true for other less competitive SEC schools as well.  They are successful by association.  Hence all the SEC SEC SEC garbage.

But to counter - the reason for some of today's rah-rah Big 12 crap is because the Big 12 as a conference is down in a foxhole right now.  It's hunkered down and trying to protect its irrelevant relevance.  It's kind of the opposite of the SEC.

And currently, even Texas needs the Big 12 horn to be tooted, because Texas can't show you anything on the field.  Texas is hunkered down with the rest of the goobers.

But as a rule - not OU.  Sooner fans would join the SEC or B1G or likely even PAC tomorrow.  There has to be an oSu bind that precludes this.  There's simply no other reason OU is sticking around this backdrop conference which merely exists for Texas to have the LHN.

The only reason any Sooner fan could lightly pull for Texas to win anything is because Texas flat out sucks, and is a non-threatening entity.  And there is NO reason for any Longhorns to pull for Sooners, notwithstanding hapless recliner ridden sods that only get up to potty and raid the kitchen.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 01:15:49 PM
Has anyone noticed that every time BC posts the atmosphere gets warmer and warmer

We may have uncovered the cause of global warming
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 02:01:47 PM
Has anyone noticed that every time CH posts the atmosphere gets warmer and warmer
CH <> BC or T95.

CH = HH or (I forgot the earlier one)

All I know is I miss the old hornstein logo (insignia) that would usher in a Hooky post.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 02:14:27 PM
CH <> BC or T95.

CH = HH or (I forgot the earlier one)

yep I hope CH can forgive me for my oversight

I corrected it
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 06, 2017, 02:17:44 PM
Cow farts cause global warming, not internet posting. 

I just don't see how I'm expected to suddenly start rooting for a team in bowl season that I spend 364 other days of the year hating.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 02:24:28 PM
Cow farts cause global warming, not internet posting.
Dammit I traded in the wife's Yukon for no reason.  But don't tell her cuz I want to keep the cows.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 02:34:09 PM
I get your point MDT, but the more I think about it the conference affiliation is only one part of this, and probably not the main part.

You see, I have lots of Texas friends, and this board is just the tip of that iceberg.  I lived in Texas for 6 years and still stay in touch with several friends from that time (I was in my 20s after all), one of my degrees is actually from a UT school (UTD), plus several family members have various UT degrees, including some from Austin, etc.  So, while I'm not really what you might call cross-bred, still yet I have a lot of sympathy for my friends and family members who bleed burnt orange.

When I cheer for Texas in a bowl, I'm mostly cheering for my friends who are Texas fans.  I'm cheering for a few family members who live and die by the fate of the Horns.  Am I myself actually cheering for UT?  Probably not as I've been cheering for Oklahoma since I was knee high to a scissor-tailed flycatcher and they were always the arch foe.  

No, it's not for me, but I'm just happy for all my Texas friends and family when they're happy.  And Texas is in the same conference these days, and lord knows the Big 12 needs all the help it can get.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Shiner on December 06, 2017, 02:34:34 PM
I think we Aggie fans probably were guilty of "SEC SEC SEC!" nonsense when we first joined said conference.... But I think that's largely died down.  We've started to settle into the new conference of ours and at this point.... the focus has turned from "we're just happy to be here" to... "it's time to start winning".  I'd like to believe recent events would serve as evidence to support this.

All that is to say I'm not sure we are any more guilty of "success by association" than any other program in the conference at this point.  

And I agree wholeheartedly with MDT's comments.... It won't bother me in the least to see every other SEC team get destroyed in the bowls..... first and foremost bama.  I rolled my eyes when they got into the CFP... yet again.  But it is what it is.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 02:49:09 PM
Being an Astros fan and the fact they are in the American League

I alway root for the AL in the All Star game and the World Series

(course this year they were the same for the World Series)
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Thumper on December 06, 2017, 03:00:03 PM
I determine who to root for based on how it affects the Sooners.  In general terms that means I normally root for other Big 12 teams.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 03:10:31 PM
I determine who to root for based on how it affects the Sooners.  In general terms that means I normally root for other Big 12 teams.
Given that the Sooners are on top, yes.
It's easy to pull for the little dogs, they only make you look good when they grab a bone.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: MikeDeTiger on December 06, 2017, 03:29:53 PM
I determine who to root for based on how it affects the Sooners.  In general terms that means I normally root for other Big 12 teams.
I used to try to do that for the same reasons.  If our opponents did well, our sos got better and helped us out.  In recent years I've come to realize it really doesn't matter.  If LSU takes care of business and wins the conference, then unless they're a 2001 scenario, they're going to be in the playoffs and will be plenty high profile enough to keep recruiting well.  It doesn't really matter if our schedule is awesome or if it's crap.  As things currently are in the cfb landscape, the SEC champ is in on hype alone, barring some strange 2001-esque scenario.  
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
I always root for the AL in the All Star game and the World Series
I root for the AL because I like the DH rule.  It enters another hitter into the line-up making the game more interesting.
Yes I used to be the other way because I thought it was natural and "pure" for the pitcher to bat... but to heck with that.  I like batting a DH, and I hate world series games in the NL stadiums.
Imagine baseball where the offense and defense were two different line-ups, like football.  That may be exciting.  But I wouldn't go that far.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 04:03:11 PM
I always respect a pitcher that can swing the bat 

loved to see a pitcher come out of the dugout to PH in a tight game in the late innings

especially if they drove in a run or two
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
Don Drysdale was the best hitting pitcher I ever saw
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 05:08:55 PM
Don Drysdale was the best hitting pitcher I ever saw
Bob Gibson had a better lifetime BA and a better SLG, and he played two years longer than DD.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 05:12:45 PM
I’ve gradually adjusted to the DH, but I’d rather have the NL version.  They implemented the DH to draw in the casual fan who mainly likes hitting and doesn’t care as much about pitching and fielding.  You know the kind of fan who walks away from a tense 2-1 pitchers duel and says the game was boring because nothing happened.  Would rather see a home run derby, I guess.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 05:21:47 PM
Bob Gibson had a better lifetime BA and a better SLG, and he played two years longer than DD.
Not saying he was the best fred just the best one I ever saw
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 05:23:02 PM
Not saying he was the best fred just the best one I ever saw
Fair enough.  Drysale was no doubt impressive all around.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 05:29:18 PM
They implemented the DH to draw in the casual fan who mainly likes hitting and doesn’t care as much about pitching and fielding.  You know the kind of fan who walks away from a tense 2-1 pitchers duel and says the game was boring because nothing happened.  Would rather see a home run derby, I guess.
Your production at the plate determines how far you make it in baseball.  Unless you're a pitcher.  MLB doesn't hire shortstops because they field a mean ground ball.  They field a mean ground ball AND they can produce at the plate.

It's not a contest to match a pitcher on the mound vs. a pitcher at the plate.  The other 8 hitters are there because to some degree they are an offensive threat.  The pitcher is not.  Sure some pitchers can squeeze out a hit sometimes, but we wouldn't notice it if it wasn't remarkable.

So you prefer the automatic out.  Oh yeah that's really some interesting baseball.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 05:38:42 PM
It’s not an automatic out.  It drops from a batter getting a hit about every 2.5 of 10 at bats down to a batter getting a hit about once every 10 at bats.  Then there are sac bunts and the matter of opposing pitchers facing each other on both ends of the pitch.  And the double switches and the much more strategic use of the bullpen.  Yep it’s more exciting for me at least than just marching an often fat over the hill pure hitter who sometimes can barely run the bases up there.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 05:40:17 PM
They implemented the DH to draw in the casual fan who mainly likes hitting and doesn’t care as much about pitching and fielding.
I'm still burning over this.  The "pitching and fielding" is not impressive when you send pitchers up to the plate.  Who cares that some ace pitcher went 1-2-3 and sat down a helpless pitcher.  Who cares if the 1st baseman ran up to grab a dribbler off the bat and then tagged the pitcher who run the 40 in 3 minutes.

That's not baseball.  It's not being a "pitching and fielding" enthusiast by sending a handicapped batter to the plate.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 06, 2017, 05:43:19 PM
Yep it’s more exciting for me at least than just marching an often fat over the hill pure hitter who sometimes can barely run the bases up there.
As opposed to a speed-burning pitcher who can tear it up on the base line.
Good Lord, nothing is making sense.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 05:59:06 PM
I'm still burning over this. The "pitching and fielding" is not impressive when you send pitchers up to the plate.  Who cares that some ace pitcher went 1-2-3 and sat down a helpless pitcher.  Who cares if the 1st baseman ran up to grab a dribbler off the bat and then tagged the pitcher who run the 40 in 3 minutes.

That's not baseball.  It's not being a "pitching and fielding" enthusiast by sending a handicapped batter to the plate.
Relax - it's just a conversation, and is often the case, we don't agree.  Oh well.

Funny that you say having a pitcher bat is "not baseball."  It was baseball since the origins in the 1860s until the 1970s when it was implemented for the AL.  Pitchers still bat in various amateur leagues including LL to this day, and of course in the NL and on minor league teams affiliated with NL teams.   

Anyway, to each his own.  I doubt we're going to convince each other so we should probably just let it be.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 07:47:13 PM
Your production at the plate determines how far you make it in baseball.  Unless you're a pitcher.  MLB doesn't hire shortstops because they field a mean ground ball.  
they did hire shortstops for their glove and arm back in Gibson's day
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 06, 2017, 09:10:50 PM
they did hire shortstops for their glove and arm back in Gibson's day
True, like SS Dal Maxvill ... a .217 lifetime BA (just .011 higher than Gibson's lifetime BA) but yet he has three NL championship rings, and two WS rings, to show for it.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 06, 2017, 10:36:56 PM
Old-fashioned NL baseball for me.  No DH.  Pants down to mid-calf, high-stirrup stockings.  Birds on a bat.  Pinstripe sleeveless tunic.  Interlocking LA.  Pitching duels.

Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Bunning.  Musial, Clemente, Wills, Mays, McCovey, McCarver, K. Boyer, Banks, Aaron.

Strategy.  Bunting.  Hit and run.  Double substitutions.  Pitchers bunting to advance runners.  Base-stealing.  Hitting to the opposite field.

Or you could go watch an Earl Weaver game over in the AL.  Get a man on, via a walk, then hold him at first until a big, slow, white guy can yank a homer and drive him in.  Rinse, lather, repeat.

Never knew what was going to happen next.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 10:42:58 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ba/bd/cc/babdcc87e37610853eb6907c0309f05f--baltimore-orioles-baseball-the-orioles.jpg)
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 10:43:19 PM
and Boog Powell
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 10:44:53 PM
I've always watched, enjoyed, and respected both leagues

Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 10:50:10 PM
dont forget Luis Aparicio and Nellie Fox

one of the best keystone combos ever
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 06, 2017, 11:14:58 PM
Luis - in the hall of fame with a .262 avg and .313 OBP
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2017, 11:34:20 PM
Luis - in the hall of fame with a .262 avg and .313 OBP
Fox also in the Hall of Fame with a .288 avg
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CWSooner on December 06, 2017, 11:51:22 PM
I've always watched, enjoyed, and respected both leagues
Once the Mick retired, the AL was dead to me.
I exaggerate.  I renewed my Yankee fandom when I got to see a few Yankees games during the Catfish Hunter-Reggie Jackson era.
THEN the AL was dead to me.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 07, 2017, 11:14:16 AM
Nostalgia.  It's killing baseball.

But by the same token, I will allow that knee-jerk whims are killing football.

So you can't win.

But baseball has the opportunity to add so many more elements of strategy and complexity that would liven up the game.

Pitching changes?  Limit 2 per game.

Foul balls?  3rd foul and you're out.

4 balls?  Pffft.  3 balls should be a walk.  (although that would screw up Little League nationwide)

Standard depth ballparks.

In case of tie, play 1 extra inning.  If it's still a tie, it's a tie.

Cut back from 162 to 81 games (for starters).  A baseball game needs to be more than a family picnic with $12 beer and $8 nachos.  It needs to mean something.  You wanna know why concessions sell less at Bama vs. Auburn?  Because people didn't go there to eat.  It's a game and it matters dammit.  1/162 of a baseball season is meaningless.

Baseball has proven that quantity is better than quality.  162 games?  More ching-ching.  Bad for guys like me who want more drama and significance with each game, each inning, each pitch, each swing of the bat... it should all mean more.

Good for nostalgia farts.

The shame is that baseball is actually a better game than football, and with some changes, could once again overtake football as America's favorite spectator sport.  But it won't happen.

Just put us to sleep and count our money.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 07, 2017, 01:19:31 PM
For the most part I like Baseball just the way it is

I dont like the DH rule however

I also dont like the fact that the winner of the All Star game no longer determines home field advantage 

in the WS

Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 07, 2017, 01:51:45 PM
the All-Star game should not determine anything
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 07, 2017, 02:11:47 PM
the All-Star game should not determine anything
thats why I dont watch it
at least there was some interest in the turnout
now theres none
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 07, 2017, 02:58:43 PM
I also dont like the fact that the winner of the All Star game no longer determines home field advantage
I didn't even know they changed this.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Shiner on December 07, 2017, 03:04:48 PM
We are a largely baseball-centric family... some of these ideas I like, at least in concept.

First and foremost is the season should be reduced.  162 games is too many... and that's something I've been preaching for years.  It will never change of course, because baseball is more tradition driven than any other sport... by a mile.  But nevertheless, the season is too long.  Even cutting down to 120 games would be a huge improvement.

Limiting pitching changes would be interesting.  Never considered that... though I'm not sure 2 would be enough.  I'd suggest at least 3.

3rd foul ball and you're out?  uh.... no.  No changes there.

3 balls for a walk?  Again.... no.  There is nothing wrong the rules around an AB.

No ties in baseball.... that is just sacrilege.  You play til you have a winner.

The winner of the all star game determining home field advantage in the WS was the dumbest idea ever in sports.

As for the DH rules... I don't really have a strong opinion on this one.  I've always been an AL guy, as a fan of the Rangers.... but I can see both sides of it.  From a purists point of view, I can see why many hate the idea of a DH.... On the otherhand, as discussed earlier... pitchers generally suck as hitters.  They usually see about 3 pitches then have a seat.  It's a waste of everyone's time.. and it effectively creates an 8 man lineup.  I think that's silly, so the idea of the DH to at least get you 9 legitimate hitters has merit.  

Something else I'd like to have considered is limiting the number of pitchers on MLB rosters.  I suppose this drives to a similar end as limiting pitching changes.  These days, teams are lucky to get 5 full innings out of their starters... they pull them early... then go to short relievers... long relievers... closers.... etc.  It's all too specialized.  I'd like to see a limited number of pitchers on a team, forcing teams to pitch their pitchers 1) longer in games and 2) more games per year.  5 man rotations aren't necessary.... we're treating pitchers like snowflakes.  Yeah... I get that velocities have gone up and movement has increased, but c'mon... man up and pitch.  
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 07, 2017, 03:20:23 PM
Remember playing kickball in grade school?

You know, basically baseball except you rolled and kicked the ball.  Great game wasn't it?

Professional kickball.  Someone should start it.  It's time for a new sport.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 07, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
The game is fine.  It doesn’t need to be the number 1 sport in this country of a lot of varied interests, and nothing personal intended mind you but I don’t care if BC loses interest and never watches another game.

I can live with the DH.  The all star game is fun to watch, and it shouldn’t be linked to the WS.  The team that won the most games should have home field advantage - pretty simple.

I’d love to see pitchers going for more complete games etc but we’re in the post Bill James era and the managers are going to keep playing the best percentages, and that leads to specialization.

It does burn them though.  I attended game 5 of the 2016 NLDS (Wash v LA), and the Nats had been leading all game. Scherzer had the boys in blue iced.  But the in the 7th he gave up a solo homer and LA got their first run.  He still had his stuff but Dusty decided to pull him, and it proved fatal as the reliever (can’t remember who) couldn’t contain LA like MS had been doing and gave up three more (Turner hit a mammoth double) and LA win that deciding 5th game 4-3.  

At the same time I can think of a lot of times where they didn’t pulled soon enough - for example this years NLDS with the Nats up Dusty put in Scherzer on two days rest and the Cubs rocked him, gaining the lead back and then some.  It was clear MS did not have it this time but Dusty left him in until the Nats found themselves 3 down and ended up losing the game 9-8.

And Dusty?  He is no longer the Washington manager!

So it goes both ways.  The game is fine.  It’ll kept being played roughly the same long after all of us are pushing up daisies, and will continue to be one of the main sports not only have the US but also several countries of northern Latin America and of east Asia.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 07, 2017, 03:27:58 PM
The game is fine.  It’ll kept being played roughly the same long after all of us are pushing up daisies, and will continue to be one of the main sports not only have the US but also several countries of northern Latin America and of east Asia.
Well with all the things they could have changed, they bring in instant replay - probably the worse option.

That's right, let's stop the already standstill baseball game and watch instant replay for 5 minutes.  Brilliant.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: CousinFreddie on December 07, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
Well with all the things they could have changed, they bring in instant replay - probably the worse option.

That's right, let's stop the already standstill baseball game and watch instant replay for 5 minutes.  Brilliant.
It drags football and basketball too.  I could go either way on it - human error was always part of the game.  
We won’t go back on this either as everyone has too much technology at their fingertips to just leave it up to the real-time calls by the refs/umps.
Oh well.
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: BrownCounty on December 07, 2017, 04:50:29 PM
The thing about instant replay is that it is used to overturn a ruling on the field.

What's the terminology?  "Conclusive evidence" or something?  I forget the exact wording.

But let's go back to football for a second.  The problem with "conclusive" evidence is that there is no time limit in which to seek it out.  If you can't overturn a call within 2 minutes of review, then forget it!!  Move on.  It's not "conclusive" enough.

What am I missing?
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: FearlessF on December 08, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
so you'd think Shohei Ohtani would rather play in the NL

but, since I'm a Halos fan, I'm hoping for big things
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: longhorn320 on December 08, 2017, 08:28:49 PM
The thing about instant replay is that it is used to overturn a ruling on the field.

What's the terminology?  "Conclusive evidence" or something?  I forget the exact wording.

But let's go back to football for a second.  The problem with "conclusive" evidence is that there is no time limit in which to seek it out.  If you can't overturn a call within 2 minutes of review, then forget it!!  Move on.  It's not "conclusive" enough.

What am I missing?
they should limit the number of reviews to 2 for each side unless a call is reversed which would not count towards that limit
Title: Re: Big 12 CCG
Post by: Cincydawg on December 09, 2017, 05:47:11 AM
The time needed for replay is concerning (and exciting) but at times you have to look through several angles to see the play (not as much in baseball as football).

What about 7 inning baseball games?  We played that in HS.

I can recall a game I pitched in 10th grade on the JV team.  The Varsity had pitchers and the JV team had one, me.  The game was tied after 7 1-1.  I recall the coach coming out in the 9th inning, still tied, and asking me if I was tired and I said "Yes coach I'm exhausted" and he said "Well, go get'em."  I knew we had no backups.

The game went into the 12th inning and I was at bat planning to strike out and rest and somehow hit the ball to the fence in left field and ended up scoring, but had to pitch the bottom of the 12th and the other team got two runs on some errors and we lost.  I struck out something like 20 batters (and walked 7, a regular Nuke Laloush, new league record) and maybe have never been so tired.

We had zero athletic training back then so the notion of icing your arm was unknown at the time.

But, I digress.