OT - Nassar

[847badgerfan]

Fake stat.

Bullshit.

Anyone with a computer is a "journalist" now, and 95 percent of them have an agenda.

[HailHailMSP]

The feaux outrage at Dantonio and Izzo, is disgusting.

Go to a UM fan board- they want blood.  Do you think it is for the reason they claim?  Hell no, those two coaches are simply high value targets in their personal war that is fandom/rivalry.

Were any of those guys calling for the head coach for basketball or gymnastics at PSU when that was all going down?  Of course not, and I rest my case.  

That’s a broad sweeping generalization against a fan base. I’m a Michigan fan, and I want done what is right. Most alumni from Michigan I have talked to have stated the same, that goes for Spartans I know too. ESPN has its flaws, but it also looks very bad to take the news source and immediately scream fake news.
I’m not calling for resignations or terminations yet, but the onion should be peeled back on this. If, and it’s a big if, the Travis Walton stuff is true, this looks very bad for Izzo. It also looks pretty terrible that the prosecuting attorney that chose not to pursue charges against Appling and Payne was hired a short while later by MSU as a Title IX employee. And as a coach you take responsibility for bringing someone like Auston Robertson to campus, given his history. When he committed a disgusting act I didn’t see anyone stepping out to apologize or take accountability.
I say this not as a fan, but as a father. I was disgusted with details on Brendan Gibbons for “my” school. More recently I was dismayed with how MN has handled Reggie Lynch as well, as a passive hometown fan. Stand up and take accountability as an adult and a coach and a father. I’m troubled that in many cases this hasn’t happened, including possibly with Dantonio and Izzo. It shouldn’t be too much to ask of program leaders making millions a year. It’s sad. It’s not being out for blood with a frivolous sports rivalry. A low rent reaction from a handful of basement message board and tweeter types may be disgusting, but Nassar and adults not taking accountability is afar more disgusting.

[SuperMario]

That’s a broad sweeping generalization against a fan base. I’m a Michigan fan, and I want done what is right. Most alumni from Michigan I have talked to have stated the same, that goes for Spartans I know too. ESPN has its flaws, but it also looks very bad to take the news source and immediately scream fake news.
I’m not calling for resignations or terminations yet, but the onion should be peeled back on this. If, and it’s a big if, the Travis Walton stuff is true, this looks very bad for Izzo. It also looks pretty terrible that the prosecuting attorney that chose not to pursue charges against Appling and Payne was hired a short while later by MSU as a Title IX employee. And as a coach you take responsibility for bringing someone like Auston Robertson to campus, given his history. When he committed a disgusting act I didn’t see anyone stepping out to apologize or take accountability.
I say this not as a fan, but as a father. I was disgusted with details on Brendan Gibbons for “my” school. More recently I was dismayed with how MN has handled Reggie Lynch as well, as a passive hometown fan. Stand up and take accountability as an adult and a coach and a father. I’m troubled that in many cases this hasn’t happened, including possibly with Dantonio and Izzo. It shouldn’t be too much to ask of program leaders making millions a year. It’s sad. It’s not being out for blood with a frivolous sports rivalry. A low rent reaction from a handful of basement message board and tweeter types may be disgusting, but Nassar and adults not taking accountability is afar more disgusting.

This is a really well spoken take, especially describing peeling the onion. There are definitely red flags that make me question the culture and demand further investigation, regardless of the school name and mascot.
My only contention is confusing an individual’s age with them being an adult. A person willing to do what Nassar did, or cover his actions, never reached adulthood. 

[Honestbuckeye]

Yes, it’s a good take.  Always peel the onion.

But I stand behind my comments.  Associating Nassar directly with either Izzo or Dantonio is dead wrong, and assuming assuming that either of them is guilty of anything, is wrong. And to say it mildly that is what they are doing.

[iahawk15]

Fair enough.  We will wait to see what other information will come out.  But sometimes once the dominos start to fall, its hard to know where it all stops.

Yes, exactly. I'm not grabbing my pitchfork based exclusively on an OTL segment.

[Honestbuckeye]

That's only what dictators say.

So, is Schiano guilty of any wrongdoing while he coached at PSU- because some hack journalist with a clear agenda says so?  Despite the fact that he never was a coach there at the same time as the creep?
Come on man wake up.  If you have today’s digital age, social media, main stream media competing for clicks and viewers, and no accountability- you get a mob mentality. And to be clear, it has no political boundaries.

[Honestbuckeye]

What comes to my mind during these horrible stories is the CERTAINTY that there are dozens (if not hundreds) of other Nassars out there.  Smaller profile, smaller school monsters doing this, getting away with it, and never coming to justice.

That is scary, and sad. But likely true.

[HailHailMSP]

So, is Schiano guilty of any wrongdoing while he coached at PSU- because some hack journalist with a clear agenda says so?  Despite the fact that he never was a coach there at the same time as the creep?
Come on man wake up.  If you have today’s digital age, social media, main stream media competing for clicks and viewers, and no accountability- you get a mob mentality. And to be clear, it has no political boundaries.

Let us not forget that without a couple courageous survivors and a couple “hack” journalists from the Indy star Larry Nassar is still out in the free world doing his thing.
https://t.co/9jPjNj1Wyu. How many times did the victims speak to someone about Nassar before two journalists said to themselves this doesn’t feel right.
Travis Walton should have been suspended. Auston Robertson should not have been recruited or admitted. Brendan Gibbons and Taylor Lewan (supressing Gibbons accuser) should have been suspended. Reggie Lynch should have been suspended and also never admitted. Tom Izzo, Mark Dantonio, Dave Brandon, Richard Pitino, and Mark Coyle failed us and our daughters. The buck could have stopped with them. They are powerful and make millions. They chose not to be accountable or act. 

[Honestbuckeye]

Let us not forget that without a couple courageous survivors and a couple “hack” journalists from the Indy star Larry Nassar is still out in the free world doing his thing.
https://t.co/9jPjNj1Wyu. How many times did the victims speak to someone about Nassar before two journalists said to themselves this doesn’t feel right.
Travis Walton should have been suspended. Auston Robertson should not have been recruited or admitted. Brendan Gibbons and Taylor Lewan (supressing Gibbons accuser) should have been suspended. Reggie Lynch should have been suspended and also never admitted. Tom Izzo, Mark Dantonio, Dave Brandon, Richard Pitino, and Mark Coyle failed us and our daughters. The buck could have stopped with them. They are powerful and make millions. They chose not to be accountable or act.

Sweet.  Next time I need quick Justice, I know where to go to for sheriff, judge and jury.

[ELA]

FTR, I was HIGHLY critical on CFN at the time that Dantonio should have booted Winston and Rucker immediately.  I thought Winston's crime was too serious to get a second chance, and Rucker didn't deserve a third chance.

And I agree not recruited Robertson.  But he literally did the exact same thing that Grant Perry did, and Perry pled guilty to a felony.  Let's be careful about glass houses there.  If that one is on Dantonio, and I agree it is, Perry playing this year is equally on Harbaugh.

The whole thing stinks, and it's why big time athletics needs to be taken out of universities.

MSU has a major culture problem.  Is it just as bad anywhere else you dug?  I don't personally care, MSU is bad and that's enough.  People don't care, they care about sports.  Fire Izzo, fire Dantonio, everyone is happy.  Then MSU can just keep on like the fixed the problem?  Sorry, no.  The private investigation said MSU had a major university wide problem.  The DOE has them on heightened monitoring due to campus wide issues.  That's what bothers me.  That I don't want to wear my MSU pullover to run errands.  That I don't know what the client who walks into my office thinks when they see my MSU diploma.  You want blood, you want to fire the coaches, go for it.  If they are a symptom of the problem, that solves nothing.  MSU has to fix the problem, starting at the top down, and fortunately, that's where they've started.

The same ESPN journalist who released this, had an article two years ago saying the results of her investigation into MSU was that football players were not prosecuted at a lower level than regular students.  Every piece of evidence suggests it's not a sports problem, it's an MSU problem.  Is it a nation wide problem?  Probably.  Don't care.  It's an MSU problem.  If the optics of firing coaches appeases some, and the optics look good, go for it.  But if you'd rather fix the image, than fix the problem, no thanks.  Fix the goddamned problem.

[847badgerfan]

Extreme would be to castrate any sexual offender.

But it might be a damn effective deterrent.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Punishable by death.  You get 1 appeal.  The end.  

[ELA]

FTR, I was HIGHLY critical on CFN at the time that Dantonio should have booted Winston and Rucker immediately.  I thought Winston's crime was too serious to get a second chance, and Rucker didn't deserve a third chance.

And I agree not recruited Robertson.  But he literally did the exact same thing that Grant Perry did, and Perry pled guilty to a felony.  Let's be careful about glass houses there.  If that one is on Dantonio, and I agree it is, Perry playing this year is equally on Harbaugh.

The whole thing stinks, and it's why big time athletics needs to be taken out of universities.

MSU has a major culture problem.  Is it just as bad anywhere else you dug?  I don't personally care, MSU is bad and that's enough.  People don't care, they care about sports.  Fire Izzo, fire Dantonio, everyone is happy.  Then MSU can just keep on like the fixed the problem?  Sorry, no.  The private investigation said MSU had a major university wide problem.  The DOE has them on heightened monitoring due to campus wide issues.  That's what bothers me.  That I don't want to wear my MSU pullover to run errands.  That I don't know what the client who walks into my office thinks when they see my MSU diploma.  You want blood, you want to fire the coaches, go for it.  If they are a symptom of the problem, that solves nothing.  MSU has to fix the problem, starting at the top down, and fortunately, that's where they've started.

The same ESPN journalist who released this, had an article two years ago saying the results of her investigation into MSU was that football players were not prosecuted at a lower level than regular students.  Every piece of evidence suggests it's not a sports problem, it's an MSU problem.  Is it a nation wide problem?  Probably.  Don't care.  It's an MSU problem.  If the optics of firing coaches appeases some, and the optics look good, go for it.  But if you'd rather fix the image, than fix the problem, no thanks.  Fix the goddamned problem.

Forde with an article I agree with.  That there were two parts of the story.  The Izzo/Dantonio part that was tenuous at best, but DOES DESERVE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.  Then the troubling part that is getting ignored because it involves faceless administration.  This is what concerns me as an alum.  That firing two coaches appeases the masses, the story dies down and nothing gets fixed.
https://sports.yahoo.com/becoming-clear-michigan-state-prized-image-protection-far-truth-233843392.html

[Hawkinole]

Forde with an article I agree with.  That there were two parts of the story.  The Izzo/Dantonio part that was tenuous at best, but DOES DESERVE FURTHER INVESTIGATION.  Then the troubling part that is getting ignored because it involves faceless administration.  This is what concerns me as an alum.  That firing two coaches appeases the masses, the story dies down and nothing gets fixed.
https://sports.yahoo.com/becoming-clear-michigan-state-prized-image-protection-far-truth-233843392.html

From the linked article about the 2014 Thomashow complaint:
"The newspaper got both copies of the report. The one that was sent to Thomashow had the following conclusion: 'We cannot find that the conduct was of a sexual nature. Thus, it did not violate the Sexual Harassment Policy. However, we find the claim helpful in that it allows us to examine certain practices at the MSU Sports Medicine Clinic.'
The conclusion in the copy that was sent to the others went much further:"

“We cannot find that the conduct was of a sexual nature. Thus, it did not violate the Sexual Harassment Policy. However, we find the claim helpful in that it brought to light some significant problems that the practice will want to address.
“We find that whether medically sound or not, the failure to adequately explain procedures such as these invasive, sensitive procedures, is opening the practice up to liability and is exposing patients to unnecessary trauma based on the possibility of perceived inappropriate sexual misconduct. In addition, we find that the failure to obtain consent from patients prior to the procedure is likewise exposing the practice to liability. If procedures can be performed skin-on-skin or over clothes in the breast or pelvic floor area, it would seem patients should have the choice between the two. Having a resident, nurse or someone in the room during a sensitive procedure protects doctors and provides patients with peace of mind. If ‘touching is what DO’s do’ and that is not commonly known, perhaps the practice will want to consider a disclaimer or information sheet with that information provided to the patient up front.
“Finally, we believe the practice should consider whether its procedure for intake of complaints about physicians’ behavior is adequate. Ms. Thomashow claims she tried to file a complaint with the front desk receptionist, telling her that she was canceling her appointment because she felt ‘violated.’ Whether this triggers a reporting protocol should be examined by the practice.”

My legal conclusion: MSU did an investigation. MSU reports to the victim there was no sexual abuse, and turns around and reports to the medical clinic you did not get informed consent for this procedure. Failure to get informed consent is what is known in the civil law as "medical battery." And while it is rarely prosecuted, it is also a crime.
This is unbelievable what they wrote to Thomashow, versus what they wrote to the clinic. And, failed to report to law enforcement.