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The Power Five => SEC => Topic started by: bamajoe on December 04, 2018, 11:28:41 AM

Title: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: bamajoe on December 04, 2018, 11:28:41 AM
Has the Sugar Bowl ever had a four loss team in it before? I am not arbitrarily beating on Texas, but with four losses they should be in the Liberty Bowl or Gator Bowl. Doubly bad they take one of our two best teams and deny us a competitive game against a Michigan or Penn State. It's a shame. 
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Gigem on December 04, 2018, 11:45:20 AM
Thoughts like that will get you a L. 

Remember, there are two extra slots for elite teams with the CFP. 
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: rolltidefan on December 04, 2018, 01:32:59 PM
we sent a 3 loss (eventual 4 loss) au team last year. EDIT: they were a 4 loss (eventual 5 loss) au team, and it was 2016, not last year.

nature of the beast when you have tie ins and they can't select best available.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: bamajoe on December 04, 2018, 03:34:25 PM
Was a two loss Michigan team not available? How about a three loss Penn State team? What about Washington State? Maybe Texas was the best we could get.

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Thumper on December 04, 2018, 03:43:48 PM
The Sugar is contractually obligated to take SEC & Big 12 teams.  Texas & Georgia were the top teams from those conferences not in the playoffs.  No other options.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: bamajoe on December 04, 2018, 03:54:03 PM
Thanks, I did not know that. Thanks. That explains it.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on December 04, 2018, 03:56:48 PM
Yup, the contract was a bit weird this year, and really no one available looks to be that much better on the surface, maybe Michigan.

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on December 05, 2018, 12:22:24 PM
Has the Sugar Bowl ever had a four loss team in it before? I am not arbitrarily beating on Texas, but with four losses they should be in the Liberty Bowl or Gator Bowl. Doubly bad they take one of our two best teams and deny us a competitive game against a Michigan or Penn State. It's a shame.
I couldnt agree more
While I like the honor I dont like the coming humiliation 
I just hope we dont get shutout 
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 06, 2018, 12:43:49 AM
Texas is really good.  The Horns' defense might be relieved to face a straight-up "normal" offense for once, too.  
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on December 06, 2018, 09:13:35 AM
Tom Herman does a very good job at preparing his team for bowls but the dogs just have too many horses

In short I think their bench is much better then the Horns and this game at best will be lost in the 2nd half

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on December 06, 2018, 01:00:07 PM
UGA does run a pretty vanilla offense, or at least one that looks like it, balance and all that.  The key is stopping the run, duh, though Bama pretty much did that in the CG, they just couldn't stop Fromm, especially on 3rd down.

Fromm is generally accurate and the WRs are pretty decent.  Swift and Holyfield are the two primary running backs, and both can be effective.  Oddly enough, Swift is faster and can plant and turn adeptly.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 06, 2018, 05:17:58 PM
And I think when the Sugar had Hawai'i or Cincinnati, teams like that, even with sterling records, it was way lamer than a 4-loss Texas team.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: bamajoe on December 06, 2018, 08:50:07 PM
So you think Texas with four losses would be better than Central Florida? Central Florida is what Hawaii was ten years ago or Boise 7-8 years ago. I disagree. Because Texas has a helmet name to me doesn't mean a thing. They are not very good.

FWIW I hate it that Florida drew an opponent that they have no chance against. Again it's a four loss team against a two loss Michigan. To me it would have made infinitely more sense to match Georgia and Michigan and then Florida and Texas. We would have had two much more competitive games. I do understand why we can't.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2018, 07:41:27 AM
The NY6 "contracts" basically prevent us from having better match ups, obviously.  When UGA played Hawaii in the SB, a very good USC team was available and played, and crushed, a mediocre Illinois squad.  Cincinnati I believe played in the Orange, not Sugar, back when.

I think UCF is a very dangerous team, like an Oklahoma but with faster play.  They could well beat LSU.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2018, 09:11:07 AM
So you think Texas with four losses would be better than Central Florida? Central Florida is what Hawaii was ten years ago or Boise 7-8 years ago. I disagree. Because Texas has a helmet name to me doesn't mean a thing. They are not very good.

FWIW I hate it that Florida drew an opponent that they have no chance against. Again it's a four loss team against a two loss Michigan. To me it would have made infinitely more sense to match Georgia and Michigan and then Florida and Texas. We would have had two much more competitive games. I do understand why we can't.
A - Florida has 3 losses
B - Florida and Texas are underdogs, they don't have "no chance"
C - Yes, UCF is the flash-in-the-pan G5 team of the moment.  Hooray!  Yawn.  It'll be someone else in 2 years.  Thus, 30 years down the road, it will sound better to say "We beat Texas in the Sugar Bowl that year" than "We beat that directional school in the Sugar" - because the particulars would have faded over time.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2018, 09:12:00 AM
The NY6 "contracts" basically prevent us from having better match ups, obviously.  When UGA played Hawaii in the SB, a very good USC team was available and played, and crushed, a mediocre Illinois squad.  Cincinnati I believe played in the Orange, not Sugar, back when.

I think UCF is a very dangerous team, like an Oklahoma but with faster play.  They could well beat LSU.
Cincinnati played in the 2010 Sugar Bowl vs Florida (2009 season).
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on December 07, 2018, 09:13:24 AM
I did find it odd when the Big XII agreed to send their champ to the Sugar...pairing us off with them a la the Rose with the B10 and PAC.
But then the playoff happened shortly after, and so I guess I thought, well that agreement didn't last long...yet here we are, sort of with the remnant of the agreement showing this year.



I, too, would have liked to see UGA vs Michigan.  
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
That 2010 Sugar Bowl was so "memorable" that I forgot all about it.

Some rumors Harbaugh wants to return to the League.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: rolltidefan on December 07, 2018, 03:50:54 PM
A - Florida has 3 losses
B - Florida and Texas are underdogs, they don't have "no chance"
C - Yes, UCF is the flash-in-the-pan G5 team of the moment.  Hooray!  Yawn.  It'll be someone else in 2 years.  Thus, 30 years down the road, it will sound better to say "We beat Texas in the Sugar Bowl that year" than "We beat that directional school in the Sugar" - because the particulars would have faded over time.
tbh, i don't care all that much what it'll look like in 20-30 years. i want the best match-ups today so we can enjoy them while we watch them. and i'll remember boise's crazy upset over ou much more than the sugar and rose that year, despite their match-ups being traditional.
having said that, i have no issues with texas being in the sugar. imo, texas is a good team. the played a cfp team twice, winning once and tacking them tied through 3 qtrs the other time.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on December 07, 2018, 04:24:11 PM
Of teams UGA has played, Texas is close to equal to all of them, at least, save one, I suspect.  They might well be a notch better than Florida and UK.

It's not as if the Dawgs can roll into town and expect to win easily.  Well, they CAN do that, but ...

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on January 02, 2019, 12:23:29 AM
So whats the over/under on how many seconds this thread will last before its deleted

anyway nice game dogs

good luck next year
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on January 02, 2019, 12:26:26 AM
I did find it odd when the Big XII agreed to send their champ to the Sugar...pairing us off with them a la the Rose with the B10 and PAC.
But then the playoff happened shortly after, and so I guess I thought, well that agreement didn't last long...yet here we are, sort of with the remnant of the agreement showing this year.



I, too, would have liked to see UGA vs Michigan.  
they would have lost that game too
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 02, 2019, 12:39:17 AM
Actually, if UGA had played Michigan, no one would have won, because they were the 2 letdown teams this year.  Both lost their last games of the season with a trip to the playoff on the line.  I predicted both would have motivation problems and both did.  If they had played, the universe would have imploded.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on January 02, 2019, 11:40:18 AM
Has the Sugar Bowl ever had a four loss team in it before? I am not arbitrarily beating on Texas, but with four losses they should be in the Liberty Bowl or Gator Bowl. Doubly bad they take one of our two best teams and deny us a competitive game against a Michigan or Penn State. It's a shame.
Yeah, you're right.  It wasn't VERY competitive but Georgia made it close in the end thanks to a couple of Texas targeting penalties.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: utee94 on January 02, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
Has the Sugar Bowl ever had a four loss team in it before? I am not arbitrarily beating on Texas, but with four losses they should be in the Liberty Bowl or Gator Bowl. Doubly bad they take one of our two best teams and deny us a competitive game against a Michigan or Penn State. It's a shame.
Bwahahahahaah.
This post has not aged well.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: utee94 on January 02, 2019, 11:43:27 AM
Texas is really good.  The Horns' defense might be relieved to face a straight-up "normal" offense for once, too.  
OAM definitely nailed it here.  Georgia's offense played to Texas' strengths much  better than the more spread-based, mobile QB offenses of the B12.  Worked out well for the bowl game, but causes the Horns plenty of problems in-conference.
Anyway, condolences to CD (and any other Georgia fans around, are there any?) and best of luck next season!
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2019, 03:13:43 PM
Georgia next year is going to be loaded.  They were very young this year and only a couple really key players are departing.

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: utee94 on January 02, 2019, 03:33:14 PM
Georgia next year is going to be loaded.  They were very young this year and only a couple really key players are departing.


Sounds pretty similar to Texas.  Perhaps our two teams will meet again, in the CFP. :)
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on January 02, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Works for me.  Ohio State could be a contenduh next year as well.

Loser Baker at corner will be a loss and Gailliard at center.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: bamajoe on January 02, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
Every game is a contest where either team can win. Texas won that one. Congratulations. Purdue beat Ohio State. Things happen in college football. That's why it is so great.  It doesn't change the dynamic that a four loss team should never be in the Sugar Bowl, the Orange Bowl or the Rose Bowl.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 02, 2019, 08:42:24 PM
This is the climate we're in - can't acknowledge being wrong, just have to blindly double down.  Ugh.





I was thinking about Texas' season earlier today.  Man, big-time college football is HARD.  You can beat OU, a team with perhaps the best offense ever, and Georgia...and still lose 4 games.  It's tough.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on January 02, 2019, 09:30:59 PM
This is the climate we're in - can't acknowledge being wrong, just have to blindly double down.  Ugh.





I was thinking about Texas' season earlier today.  Man, big-time college football is HARD.  You can beat OU, a team with perhaps the best offense ever, and Georgia...and still lose 4 games.  It's tough.
The Horns are a team that "grew up" as the season progressed
our 2004 team was very much like that and won the NC in 2005
Not saying we win the NC next year but I think we'll be a top 10 team
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on January 02, 2019, 09:34:50 PM
Every game is a contest where either team can win. Texas won that one. Congratulations. Purdue beat Ohio State. Things happen in college football. That's why it is so great.  It doesn't change the dynamic that a four loss team should never be in the Sugar Bowl, the Orange Bowl or the Rose Bowl.
we came in 2nd in the Big 12
Youve heard of the Big12 havent you bamajoe
they are the conference that took 3 out of 4 bowl games from the sec this year
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: utee94 on January 03, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
This is the climate we're in - can't acknowledge being wrong, just have to blindly double down.  Ugh.





I was thinking about Texas' season earlier today.  Man, big-time college football is HARD.  You can beat OU, a team with perhaps the best offense ever, and Georgia...and still lose 4 games.  It's tough.
No doubt.  And with all of the factors contributing to more parity in the sport, winning is only getting harder.  Except for Alabama I guess.  They're just so consistently flipping good.  It's truly remarkable.
One thing I'll say about Texas' "4 losses" is that it's really a result of the stupid B12 CCG.  Texas already played all 9 conference opponents in a full roundrobin, so the additional loss from the CCG is sort of double-counting.  Without that stupid and unnecessary CCG, Texas is 9-3 and headed to the Sugar Bowl.  Still perhaps not a "worthy" loss total for a major bowl game, but not completely un-respectable.  Just my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: rolltidefan on January 03, 2019, 12:55:45 PM
No doubt.  And with all of the factors contributing to more parity in the sport, winning is only getting harder.  Except for Alabama I guess.  They're just so consistently flipping good.  It's truly remarkable.
One thing I'll say about Texas' "4 losses" is that it's really a result of the stupid B12 CCG.  Texas already played all 9 conference opponents in a full roundrobin, so the additional loss from the CCG is sort of double-counting.  Without that stupid and unnecessary CCG, Texas is 9-3 and headed to the Sugar Bowl.  Still perhaps not a "worthy" loss total for a major bowl game, but not completely un-respectable.  Just my opinion of course.
we keep saying that there's more parity, but we're not seeing it in reality. there's been a lot of things implemented to increase parity, like scholly limits, but after going back and looking at some data, those look like they might have actually increased the separation.
i don't have the stats in front of me, but i posted some on the old cfn board, using the bobs website, that showed over the last 4-5 decades, the win % of the have vs have not is actually increasing, not decreasing. contra to what most believe to be the case.
also did a quick study on the last time we had a first time national champ (ap/coaches polls) - 1996 uf. and looked at when we had first time champs throughout history. i thought there'd be a bunch early on, early 30's-40's. but what i found was they came in groups of 10+/- every other decade or so. we'd go a decade with a new winner every year or so, then a decade of no new ones, then a decade of new ones, etc. until the scholly limits hit in 70s and then again in early 90's. maybe it's coincidence, but there were abrupt stops to new winners after they reduced scholarships each time. part of that is because the field of potential new winners grows smaller with each new winner, and thus less likely.
i'm hopeful the bobs gets his data set up again so i can run some numbers again, but i found that interesting.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: utee94 on January 03, 2019, 12:59:33 PM
we keep saying that there's more parity, but we're not seeing it in reality. there's been a lot of things implemented to increase parity, like scholly limits, but after going back and looking at some data, those look like they might have actually increased the separation.
i don't have the stats in front of me, but i posted some on the old cfn board, using the bobs website, that showed over the last 4-5 decades, the win % of the have vs have not is actually increasing, not decreasing. contra to what most believe to be the case.
also did a quick study on the last time we had a first time national champ (ap/coaches polls) - 1996 uf. and looked at when we had first time champs throughout history. i thought there'd be a bunch early on, early 30's-40's. but what i found was they came in groups of 10+/- every other decade or so. we'd go a decade with a new winner every year or so, then a decade of no new ones, then a decade of new ones, etc. until the scholly limits hit in 70s and then again in early 90's. maybe it's coincidence, but there were abrupt stops to new winners after they reduced scholarships each time. part of that is because the field of potential new winners grows smaller with each new winner, and thus less likely.
i'm hopeful the bobs gets his data set up again so i can run some numbers again, but i found that interesting.
Who are you defining as "haves" and "have nots?"
If you're talking about disparity between G5 and P5, well sure.
Within P5 conferences, I'd be surprised if we're not seeing traditional bottom feeders have more success than their historical norms, and seeing traditional powers struggle a bit more, too.
Alabama over the past decade is of course an outlier.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: rolltidefan on January 03, 2019, 02:48:17 PM
i'm pretty sure the one on cfn was p5 vs g5. people were using boise, tcu, utah, etc. as proof that they're "catching up" and i was pointing out that a couple teams being good =/= the whole parity.

i looked a little at p5 only teams, but i don't remember it being obvious slanted one way or the other. the 'haves' would have been the top 20 +/- in wins/win%.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 03, 2019, 11:52:28 PM
we keep saying that there's more parity, but we're not seeing it in reality. there's been a lot of things implemented to increase parity, like scholly limits, but after going back and looking at some data, those look like they might have actually increased the separation.
i don't have the stats in front of me, but i posted some on the old cfn board, using the bobs website, that showed over the last 4-5 decades, the win % of the have vs have not is actually increasing, not decreasing. contra to what most believe to be the case.
also did a quick study on the last time we had a first time national champ (ap/coaches polls) - 1996 uf. and looked at when we had first time champs throughout history. i thought there'd be a bunch early on, early 30's-40's. but what i found was they came in groups of 10+/- every other decade or so. we'd go a decade with a new winner every year or so, then a decade of no new ones, then a decade of new ones, etc. until the scholly limits hit in 70s and then again in early 90's. maybe it's coincidence, but there were abrupt stops to new winners after they reduced scholarships each time. part of that is because the field of potential new winners grows smaller with each new winner, and thus less likely.
i'm hopeful the bobs gets his data set up again so i can run some numbers again, but i found that interesting.
Well that pattern couldn't go on forever, there's a (relatively) finite number of P5 teams.....
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: rolltidefan on January 04, 2019, 10:51:23 AM
right, and i said as much. the field of potential new winners gets smaller with each new winner.

was still interesting to me that they came in groups rather than seemingly random.

and it could be coincidence with the correlation of scholly limits and the last first time winner, but it's there.
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: Cincydawg on January 04, 2019, 01:14:43 PM
Athlon already posted a next year top 25 (for clicks).  The usual suspects.

Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 04, 2019, 08:10:31 PM
Their blurb on Florida is off.  The defense will be fine, losing 4 guys on the OL will really hurt.  Hopefully it won't be crippling.  
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: longhorn320 on January 16, 2019, 12:59:03 PM
Every game is a contest where either team can win. Texas won that one. Congratulations. Purdue beat Ohio State. Things happen in college football. That's why it is so great.  It doesn't change the dynamic that a four loss team should never be in the Sugar Bowl, the Orange Bowl or the Rose Bowl.
is that all you got
but I guess thats understandable considering the sec won 5 and lost 6 bowl games against P5
teams this year
and also begs the question why did the 2nd place sec team lose to a 4 loss team
Title: Re: Sugar Bowl is a disgrace no
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on January 16, 2019, 11:55:01 PM
I could chime in here......but I'll pass.