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Topic: Best #50

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OrangeAfroMan

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Best #50
« on: July 14, 2018, 09:48:33 PM »
College only - this is not a slam dunk.  At least it shouldn't be.
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TyphonInc

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 11:13:22 PM »
If you watch SNL in the 80ies, this is a slam dunk. 
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2018, 01:18:59 AM »
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FearlessF

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2018, 07:12:34 PM »
I went with Butkus

Rimmington also a fine choice
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Entropy

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2018, 10:14:23 AM »
I went with Rimmington.... best center ever to play the game of CF
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Benthere2

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2018, 10:16:04 AM »
The Butkus Award, instituted in 1985, is given annually to the top linebackers at the high school, collegiate and professional levels of football.

3 levels honor this guy for his efforts throughout his career

I think it might be a slam dunk 

not saying the other guys are not deserving of greatness but .....
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847badgerfan

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2018, 10:20:31 AM »
Quote from: Entropy on July 16, 2018, 10:14:23 AM
I went with Rimmington.... best center ever to play the game of CF
I think that's fair, and he too has an award named for him. To me, Dick Butkus is in the conversation as "best ever" regardless of position. Rimington is not that.
Butkus could have played any position on the OL, FB, any position on the DL and any position along the LB front. He was so damn football-smart too.
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FearlessF

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2018, 10:55:14 AM »
I guess that's the question for me.

I feel Rimmington was the best ever at his position.  Of course by position it's center not o-line.

Rimmington would have also been a great guard, but wasn't suited for O-tackle

Was Butkus the best MLB ever?  or better yet,  best LB ever?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2018, 11:13:40 AM »
Butkus is almost all reputation.  I'm not saying he wasn't an all-time great, but we don't KNOW if he was.  We don't have stats on him for tackles or forced fumbles or sacks.  We have grainy footage and a bunch of guys saying he was intimidating.  We have newspaper articles that built his reputation up.  

I don't want to detract from how good he was, but we're lacking a big pile of evidence here.  We just are.  One must acknowledge that he was merely a pretty god or even average LB who played dirty.  I'm not saying it's likely, but it's certainly possible.  

What if he was a better center than a LB?  We don't know that, either.  There's so much we don't know - writers back then were all trying to be the next Grantland Rice, filling their columns with hyperbolic word salad, that Butkus and others benefitted from being built up in the minds of all the readers.  It's as if Mickey Mantle was especially revered (as he is), but with no HR or batting average numbers.  

All that being said, there's not exactly a ton of statistical evidence for a center in 1980, either, lol.
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ELA

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2018, 11:21:55 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on July 16, 2018, 11:13:40 AM
Butkus is almost all reputation.  I'm not saying he wasn't an all-time great, but we don't KNOW if he was.  We don't have stats on him for tackles or forced fumbles or sacks.  We have grainy footage and a bunch of guys saying he was intimidating.  We have newspaper articles that built his reputation up.  

I don't want to detract from how good he was, but we're lacking a big pile of evidence here.  We just are.  One must acknowledge that he was merely a pretty god or even average LB who played dirty.  I'm not saying it's likely, but it's certainly possible.  

What if he was a better center than a LB?  We don't know that, either.  There's so much we don't know - writers back then were all trying to be the next Grantland Rice, filling their columns with hyperbolic word salad, that Butkus and others benefitted from being built up in the minds of all the readers.  It's as if Mickey Mantle was especially revered (as he is), but with no HR or batting average numbers.  

All that being said, there's not exactly a ton of statistical evidence for a center in 1980, either, lol.
That's what it came down to for me.  It's basically two guys, with positional trophies named after them, that I'm purely judging by reputation.  It's not like I'm going to defend or argue against either choice.  I have no basis for that.  It's not like Butkus versus some guy we have more tangible evidence of.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2018, 11:25:16 AM »
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with voting on reputation when it's all we have.  But Butkus (and maybe all the guys on this list) are lacking in the evidence department.  And it's not disrespectful to say so.  Butkus may very well have been the best MLB ever...but we just don't KNOW.  

Those who are out there selling certainty, with just about anything, aren't to be trusted, lol.
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FearlessF

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 11:29:28 AM »
true, we have some old footage - both players film is very impressive

not that one player makes and offense or defense, but we do have offensive numbers for Nebraska in 1980, 81, and 82, and defensive numbers for Illinois (maybe not)
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 11:34:54 AM »
...and one player on each side of the ball is 1/11 of that.  Meh.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Best #50
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 11:41:00 AM »
College career[edit]

Butkus played center and linebacker from 1962 through 1964 at the University of Illinois for the Illinois Fighting Illini football team. In his first year on the varsity team, he was named to the 1962 All-Big Ten Conference football team as the third-team center by the Associated Press (AP) and second-team center by United Press International (UPI).[7][8] In 1963, Illinois compiled an 8–1–1 record and defeated Washington in the 1964 Rose Bowl. Butkus was named the team's most valuable player for the season, and was awarded the Chicago Tribune Silver Football as the Big Ten's most valuable player.[9] He was a unanimous choice as a center for the 1963 College Football All-America Team, earning first-team honors from all seven major selectors.[10]


As a senior in 1964, Butkus was named the team's co-captain along with safety George Donnelly.[11] UPI deemed Butkus college football's Lineman of the Year for 1964,[12] and he was named the player of the year by the American Football Coaches Association and The Sporting News.[13] For the second consecutive season he was deemed the Illini's most valuable player. He was chosen for the 1964 All-America team by five of the six major selectors. In a cover story for Sports Illustrated that season, sportswriter Dan Jenkins remarked, "If every college football team had a linebacker like Dick Butkus of Illinois, all fullbacks soon would be three feet tall and sing soprano."[14] Butkus also finished sixth in Heisman Trophy balloting in 1963 and third in 1964, rare results both for a lineman and a defensive player.[15] 


According to statistics kept by the university, he completed his college career with 374 tackles: 97 in 1962, 145 in 1963, and 132 in 1964.[16]
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