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Topic: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...

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Kris61

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2017, 11:57:00 AM »
It was '89.  Oddly enough, that was his last game here and one of his worst.
Sorry I meant to quote your post and quoted mine.  Anyway, I think the 06 or 07 are better teams if only because Slaton and White were there for the entire season.  In 05 they didn't start in the backfield together until the 7th game of the season.  For most of the first half of the season White was getting about 1/3 of the snaps at QB and Slaton was chained to the bench as the 4th string RB.
I think 07 was Rod's best team.  Yeah, the two losses are bad but both were one possession losses in which White got hurt and missed big chunks of each game.  The 07 team also had Noel Devine as a freshman backing up Slaton.  He had over 600 yards rushing himself and averaged over 9 YPC.
The 93 team was weird.  I've commented before that was an 8-3 team masquerading as an 11-0 team.  There are 3 or 4 WVU teams I like better than that one.  But resume wise it was the best team in school history and it isn't even close.  They beat four teams that finished the season ranked.  They just found ways to keep winning games.  BC was a first down away from icing the game and fumbled to give WVU the ball back with about 2:00 left.  VT had a short FG blocked on the last play of the game that would have won it.  They trailed in the 4th to both Miami and Louisville but found ways to win.
The UF game just kind of snowballed.  Yeah, the Gators were better but I don't think they were really 34 points better. First off, I didn't like WVU's mindset coming in.  They seemed to be pouting they weren't playing Nebraska in the Orange in a defacto NC game.  Kelchner got off to a good start.  He was 7-8 for 100 yards and a TD and WVU was tied with them 7-7 at the end of the first.  Then Nehlen put in Studstill to start the 2nd (and Studstill had earned his playing time) and everything went to hell.  He got rocked.  He threw a pick 6 and we just never really got any momentum back.  Then Florida hit the pass right before halftime to go up 21-7 and it felt like WVU was out of it for good.  Idk.  It was just one of those games.  Don't get me wrong, UF was obviously the better team but I think WVU was better than they showed that night, too.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 11:58:42 AM by Kris61 »

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2017, 04:51:45 PM »
If this game was out there, do you think there'd be any interest as playing a non-P5 team?  Say, 2008 Utah or the best individual Air Force squad?  I tend to doubt it, but idk.  In most cases, you'd really only be playing to see if it was a competitive game or not, right?

What about for Illinois?  2001?  1989?  1983?  What say you guys? 

I know Minnesota's golden age was pre-1950, but any worthwhile teams for them since the 70s?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

fezzador

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2017, 04:56:35 PM »
Well if 1984 BYU is any indication... they won the natty that year because nobody else apparently wanted it.  They squeaked by a 6-6 Michigan team in the Holiday Bowl.  If they played someone with a pulse - Penn State, Oklahoma, Miami - they would have gotten smoked.  I don't think they're half as good as the Utah, Boise State, and TCU teams of the 2000s.  Some of those teams really were good enough to play with anybody in a given game.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:58:08 PM by fezzador »

MarqHusker

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2017, 06:04:15 PM »
I had a post on the old board about that '84 season, comparing it to the 2011 season (LSU BCS champs), as everybody who was next up on the podium to replace BYU as #1 kept screwing things up.     That's probably the most interesting AP season poll to walk through week by week and look at the results.  It was a musical chair game from the opening weekend to Jan. 1st.

Washington was the best team in the Pac 10, but lost to USC (9-3), which USC got the Rose on the tiebreaker, finished 11-1
Washington beat OU in the Orange (OU finished 9-2-1), OU was the media choice to oust BYU had they beaten UW.
OU somehow lost to unranked Kansas that year, and tied Texas in a classic 1 v 2 game in a monsoon at the Cotton Bowl in October.  The only conference that was blown off the map was the B1G which was bad in bowls and not impressive in OOC.

For whatever reason Washington wasn't viewed in high esteem to overtake BYU.  I think they were 20 points short in final poll.
Florida was 9-1-1 (probation), lost opener to the Canes, and tied Sugar bowl bound LSU.  Fla finished w 6 1st place votes.
Nebraska finished 10-2, but was upset as #1 team by 'Cuse in September, and then #6OU in November. Beat LSU in Sugar.
BC finished 10-2 losing
Okie State lost to guess who to finish 10-2.
SMU finished 10-2, two bad losses. beat ND in Aloha.

I think the #1 team AP progression went something like this,  Auburn, Miami, Nebraska, Texas, Washington, (BYU entered top 5 by end of October), Nebraska (mid November, with South Carolina now 2nd), BYU going to #1 on 11/20th, OU, Ok St. and UF also getting 1st place votes,   (there were always weeks with 3, 4, 5, 6, even 11 teams with first place votes in a single weekly poll, Clemson, Ohio St, Iowa, UCLA, Michigan, ND, ASU, Bama, Pitt all had a 1st place vote at some point that season).  BYU started season as ARV in the AP top 20.

final poll
BYU 38
Wash 16
Fla 6
Neb
BC
OU
oSu
SMU
UCLA
USC

PSUinNC

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2017, 07:46:43 PM »
  • 1994 PSU (and I won't be the homer that lists all of the other undefeated PSU teams that never sniffed the natty....)
  • 1980 Pitt was a STUPIDLY talented team. Just insanely talented.  Their loss to Florida St is what launched the FSU dynasty.
  • I'm going to say 1999 VT for one reason - Vick was and remains the best CFB player I've ever laid eyes on.  So not necessarily the team, but man was Vick special.
  • Here's one for ya - 1987 Miami.  LOADED.....but a bunch of coal miners and steelworkers kids physically pounded them that night in Tempe.  But seriously, that was a spectacular team and if you talk to guys like Michael Irvin they'll tell you that was the best team they ever played on.  

SFBadger96

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2017, 08:05:01 PM »
Once upon a time I had a really well-considered evaluation of the top Badger teams of all time. '62 was near if not the top. But they lost to #1 USC in the Rose Bowl. Ouch. I think the '99 team was better than the '98 team, record notwithstanding, and I think both may have been better than '93. Tough call. Of the more recent teams, '06 (Bielema's 1-loss team) was good, but not that good. The 2010 and 2011 teams are the hardest for me to swallow, but mostly because they didn't win their Rose Bowls, but should have (to be fair, Oregon and TCU were really good, too--I'm sure their fans would dispute the "should have" comment).

In 2010, the Tolzein-as-a-senior led Badgers lost to a very good (11-2) Michigan State team in East Lansing in a game that I still remember being brutal to watch. I think that was the game Bielema was penalized in, costing the team momentum and a chance, but maybe I'm just looking for something to pin on him. The Badgers shouldn't have lost to TCU in the Rose Bowl, and had a chance to tie it in the end, but failed. TCU was good, but Chryst (the OC at the time) tried to get too cute, rather than just running the much bigger Badger offense straight into TCU's middle. Once the Badgers did that, they started their ultimately *just short* comeback (not unlike 1962 vs. USC).

2011 was that one glorious year with Russell Wilson. The football gods shined on Madison when Wilson decided to go there, but took their vengeance in each of the three losses. In two, at Michigan State and at Ohio State, the Badgers gave up hail Marys to lose on (effectively) the game's final play (Ohio State's was with 20 second left, but whatever). Each is still painful to this day. At least Michigan State was a good team. Ohio State wasn't even good that year, and that stupid bomb on a broken play beat us (that "us" is just for Badge ;)). And then the loss to Oregon in the Rose Bowl in a game that basically had no defense (actually it had some, but not enough). Jared Abbredaris, who was as sure handed as WRs come, fumbled the ball as he was going out of bounds late in the 4th quarter and the ball inexplicably stuck like velcro to the grass instead of following the momentum out of bounds. The ball bounces funny, except when it doesn't bounce, which was *funny.* The Badgers still had a chance to come back from one score down when Wilson made a mistake in clock management and the Badgers ran out of time.

Maybe it's that shiny offenses are easier to appreciate than fantastic defenses, but that 2011 team felt like it could have beaten anyone...except that three times it didn't. Seems funny to rate a 10-3 team so highly among the great Wisconsin teams, but Russell Wilson, Montee Ball, James White, Chris Borland, Peter Konz, Kevin Zeitler, Aaron Henry... they were good.

This year's team deserves a mention--and we'll see what they do in the Orange Bowl. If I had to pick a team that at it's peak was the best, I would choose between 2011 and 1999 (once Bollinger became the starter), and probably give the nod to '99, but not without hedging a lot.

'99 had Bollinger under center, Dayne with Bennett as his backup, Tauscher and McIntosh on the line, and Wendell Bryant, Doering, Echols, and Fletcher on defense. That was a really good team.

Honorable mention for what could have been: in 2008 the team really, really talented (except for at QB), and it stunk, 7-6 with a blowout loss to Florida State in the Outback Bowl. Chemistry and leadership matter.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:07:11 PM by SFBadger96 »

PSUinNC

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2017, 08:50:07 AM »
1999 Wisconsin was a really really good team.  

I remember Dayne's coming out party was against PSU in 1996. I want to think PSU came in Top 5 into Camp Randall that day.  
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 08:52:30 AM by PSUinNC »

ALA2262

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2017, 09:23:33 AM »
I had a post on the old board about that '84 season, comparing it to the 2011 season (LSU BCS champs), as everybody who was next up on the podium to replace BYU as #1 kept screwing things up.     That's probably the most interesting AP season poll to walk through week by week and look at the results.  It was a musical chair game from the opening weekend to Jan. 1st.

Washington was the best team in the Pac 10, but lost to USC (9-3), which USC got the Rose on the tiebreaker, finished 11-1
Washington beat OU in the Orange (OU finished 9-2-1), OU was the media choice to oust BYU had they beaten UW.
OU somehow lost to unranked Kansas that year, and tied Texas in a classic 1 v 2 game in a monsoon at the Cotton Bowl in October.  The only conference that was blown off the map was the B1G which was bad in bowls and not impressive in OOC.

For whatever reason Washington wasn't viewed in high esteem to overtake BYU.  I think they were 20 points short in final poll.
Florida was 9-1-1 (probation), lost opener to the Canes, and tied Sugar bowl bound LSU.  Fla finished w 6 1st place votes.
Nebraska finished 10-2, but was upset as #1 team by 'Cuse in September, and then #6OU in November. Beat LSU in Sugar.
BC finished 10-2 losing
Okie State lost to guess who to finish 10-2.
SMU finished 10-2, two bad losses. beat ND in Aloha.

I think the #1 team AP progression went something like this,  Auburn, Miami, Nebraska, Texas, Washington, (BYU entered top 5 by end of October), Nebraska (mid November, with South Carolina now 2nd), BYU going to #1 on 11/20th, OU, Ok St. and UF also getting 1st place votes,   (there were always weeks with 3, 4, 5, 6, even 11 teams with first place votes in a single weekly poll, Clemson, Ohio St, Iowa, UCLA, Michigan, ND, ASU, Bama, Pitt all had a 1st place vote at some point that season).  BYU started season as ARV in the AP top 20.

final poll
BYU 38
Wash 16
Fla 6
Neb
BC
OU
oSu
SMU
UCLA
USC
LSU was not BCS champs in the 2011 season. Lost 0-21 in the BCSNCG.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 09:25:39 AM by ALA2262 »

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2017, 10:03:20 AM »
Michigan was absolutely unstoppable, back before the Civil War. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

rolltidefan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #65 on: December 13, 2017, 10:16:16 AM »
LSU was not BCS champs in the 2011 season. Lost 0-21 in the BCSNCG.
maybe they meant 07.
if they didn't then 07 is a still a good example of what they were discussing anyway. top teams dropping left and right. usc, lsu, osu, missouri, wvu all spent time at top and lost not long after gaining that spot.

MarqHusker

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #66 on: December 13, 2017, 10:35:50 AM »
Yeah, thank you.  2007.  Not sure how I botched that.  That Oct/Nov 2007 was wild

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
If Florida wasn't on probation, they probably win the NC in '84.  

Ron Dayne gave all chubby kids hope and the inclination to tote the rock!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ALA2262

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2017, 01:41:55 PM »
maybe they meant 07.
if they didn't then 07 is a still a good example of what they were discussing anyway. top teams dropping left and right. usc, lsu, osu, missouri, wvu all spent time at top and lost not long after gaining that spot.
I knew he meant 2007. But that 2011 stood out like a sore thumb. :)

847badgerfan

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Re: All-Time Great Non-National Champion Teams...
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2017, 02:20:22 PM »
In 2010, the Tolzein-as-a-senior led Badgers lost to a very good (11-2) Michigan State team in East Lansing in a game that I still remember being brutal to watch. I think that was the game Bielema was penalized in, costing the team momentum and a chance, but maybe I'm just looking for something to pin on him.
You're thinking of the 2008 game. Brutal to watch, and even moreso because I was there.

2010 was just Kirk Cousins being pretty damn good, and MSU getting a TD in the return game.
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