CFB51 Preseason All-Big Ten Team - Cornerback #2

[ELA]

FIRST TEAM

QB		Trace McSorley, Penn State, Senior
RB		Jonathan Taylor, Wisconsin, Sophomore
RB		J.K. Dobbins, Ohio State, Sophomore
WR		JD Spielman, Nebraska, Sophomore
WR		Stanley Morgan, Nebraska, Senior
TE		Noah Fant, Iowa, Junior
T		David Edwards, Wisconsin, Junior
G		Beau Benzschawel, Wisconsin, Senior
C		Kirk Barron, Purdue, Senior
G		Michael Jordan, Ohio State, Junior
T		Isaiah Prince, Ohio State, Senior
	.
DE		Nick Bosa, Ohio State, Junior
DT		Dre'Mont Jones, Ohio State, Junior
DT		Olive Sagapolu, Wisconsin, Senior
DE		Rashan Gary, Michigan, Junior
LB		T.J. Edwards, Wisconsin, Senior
LB		Devin Bush, Michigan, Junior
LB		Ryan Connelly, Wisconsin, Senior
CB		Lavert Hill, Michigan, Junior

SECOND TEAM

QB		Brian Lewerke, Michigan State, Junior
RB		L.J. Scott, Michigan State, Senior
RB		Rodney Smith, Minnesota, Senior
WR		Juwon Johnson, Penn State, Junior
WR		Parris Campbell, Ohio State, Senior
TE		Cole Herdman, Purdue, Senior
T		Tariq Cole, Rutgers, Senior
G		Michael Dieter, Wisconsin, Junior
C		Keegan Render, Iowa, Senior
G		Jerald Foster, Nebraska, Senior
T		Ryan Bates, Penn State, Junior
	.
DE		Chase Winovich, Michigan, Senior
DT		Jordan Thompson, Northwestern, Senior
DT		Mick Stoltenberg, Nebraska, Senior
DE		Anthony Nelson, Iowa, Junior
LB		Joe Bachie, Michigan State, Junior
LB		Khaleke Hudson, Michigan, Junior
LB		Markus Bailey, Purdue, Junior

[Anonymous Coward]

In future years, do you envision moving to a 2-LB, 5-DB format?
The game seems to have gotten there sooner than the standard awards teams. A nickel back is now not only a static position in many defenses, but in several he's among their most featured defensemen.
For Michigan, we think Ambry Thomas's position will be on the field for a majority of snaps. And that's despite LB (first team and depth) being  a strength.

[847badgerfan]

UW plays a 3-4 in the base...

I think ELA will stick with the 4-3-4 setup so long as it's the mainstream still.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to see a histogram representing the frequency of 3-4, 4-3, 4-2 and other fronts (both by program identity and, separately, by snap count). I think the national numbers would surprise people.

[ELA]

The issue is it's still generally the format by which all-conference teams are named.  Granted I think the first year or two of these we also did one RB and one FB, so things change.

[betarhoalphadelta]

It's also hard, because some of these players aren't exactly defined by position... They're bigger than safeties and faster than linebackers, so they play "nickel", but a lot of times they could play just about anywhere except on the line and wreak havoc. 

[847badgerfan]

I just want to see a histogram. Been a long time.

[bayareabadger]

UW plays a 3-4 in the base...

I think ELA will stick with the 4-3-4 setup so long as it's the mainstream still.

Yes, but I’d bet 3-4 is not the most used personnel group. 
Against 3-wide teams (which is a lot of them), UW goes 2-4-5, with the OLBs sliding in as ends. It used to just take the NT out, but Olive got so good, he often remains. 
UW goes 3-4 for power teams, usually the ones that go with more pro-style sets or Ohio State. I’d bet they were in that nickel for the entirety of a lot of games (give or take goal line)

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I was mostly lobbying for 5 DBs, because the NB is becoming a mainstay. I now see that, if we go that way, deciding the group (DL v LB) to get hit with that casualty of one is not straightforward. I'm betting it's most frequently subtracted from the LBs but am less confident now. 
Alternatively, what about making 12-man teams? Adding an FB (or flex v. inline TE?) on O and NB on D. Or is going to 12 too ham-handed?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Against 3-wide teams (which is a lot of them), UW goes 2-4-5, with the OLBs sliding in as ends. It used to just take the NT out, but Olive got so good, he often remains.

That may be true, but in my opinion that's not *really* 2-4-5. You're not rushing only 2 players, right? Those OLB sliding down as ends are lined up on the LOS, right? Depending on what those ends do, it's either a 3-4 nickel or a 4-3 nickel package in reality. Just because they're linebackers playing DE doesn't mean that it's a 2-4-5, it means it's a position grouping where your defensive end positions are staffed by LB rather than "true" DE. 

[bayareabadger]

That may be true, but in my opinion that's not *really* 2-4-5. You're not rushing only 2 players, right? Those OLB sliding down as ends are lined up on the LOS, right? Depending on what those ends do, it's either a 3-4 nickel or a 4-3 nickel package in reality. Just because they're linebackers playing DE doesn't mean that it's a 2-4-5, it means it's a position grouping where your defensive end positions are staffed by LB rather than "true" DE.

It’s a 2-4-5 personnel grouping in primarily a 4-2-5 alignment. So the standard modern nickel. 
I phrased it that way for three reasons: 1. I find the unusual personnel grouping more interesting. 2. We’re talking about personnel here, not alignment. 3. Going down the alignment road can get weird. 
To expand on 3. We still consider a tight end split out a tight end. We still consider a sixth offense lineman an O-lineman. If the OLB slides up to make a 5-man front, we don’t call it a 5-2 defense (3-4s regularly align as 5-2s). When a safety drops into the box, he’s not a linebacker. For this, we’re not calling a litany of UW OLBs defensive ends in this context. 
You mention a 4-3 or 3-4 nickel in reality. But what is this? It’s a 3-4 base, but goes whole games with a four-man front. And while it lacks a “true DE” it also lacks three or four “True” defensive linemen at all. It’s the future my friend.