The Hypesman

[MaximumSam]

if Andrew Luck and Dwayne Haskins didn't win it, then I don't see a drop back passer winning it any time soon.
Think you'll need to be a Tebow, Newton, Murray, or VY style QB to win it from now on. Most of the best teams these days don't run a purely pro-style type of offense and pass game. You can probably count on one hand the teams that run offenses like that.

I dunno.  I feel comfortable saying Haskins and Tua would have been the top two if OSU had a better defense this year.  

[Cincydawg]

I think the "eye appeal" of the very mobile QB will always be better than that of a drop back passer with the same overall stats.

The former will have more "highlight plays" while the latter will simply have a bunch of nicely thrown passes and stats to match.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Yeah, but it's not a "shrug, what-can-you-do?" thing, either.  The very mobile QB is doing something the dropback passer cannot do.  The (elite) mobile QB can do what the dropback guy can, plus.

[bayareabadger]

I think the "eye appeal" of the very mobile QB will always be better than that of a drop back passer with the same overall stats.

The former will have more "highlight plays" while the latter will simply have a bunch of nicely thrown passes and stats to match.

The thing is, they’re posting better passing stats. And adding in hundreds of rushing yards. 
There’s also a weird gap in perception. Andrew Luck was a 400-yard and 500-yard rusher. Tua isn’t near that as a runner. What was Russell Wilson? 

[Cincydawg]

I'm talking about two "equal" QBs with differing styles.

One guy passes for 4,000 yards.  The other runs for 1,000 and passed for 3000.  The second guy will have more highlights.

Now if some dude passes for 4,000 and no mobile QB had a great year, he's in.

[rolltidefan]

The thing is, they’re posting better passing stats. And adding in hundreds of rushing yards.
There’s also a weird gap in perception. Andrew Luck was a 400-yard and 500-yard rusher. Tua isn’t near that as a runner. What was Russell Wilson?

tua was on pace to be ~300 yd rusher this season before the knee injury (first 5 games). that was also considering he averaged barely playing past halftime in those games (just under 35 min/g, or 5 min into 3rd qtr). it's fair to assume he could have and would have put up 4-500 yds rushing if his team had needed him for more than half the game all season and he didn't have an injury bug.
having said that, it's something you must consider. and he's NOT the same kind of runner murray is. i have no issues with murray winning. kid is special.
wilson was 260, 420, 340 (rounded to nearest 10), from 09-11, in order.

[bayareabadger]

tua was on pace to be ~300 yd rusher this season before the knee injury (first 5 games). that was also considering he averaged barely playing past halftime in those games (just under 35 min/g, or 5 min into 3rd qtr). it's fair to assume he could have and would have put up 4-500 yds rushing if his team had needed him for more than half the game all season and he didn't have an injury bug.
having said that, it's something you must consider. and he's NOT the same kind of runner murray is. i have no issues with murray winning. kid is special.
wilson was 260, 420, 340 (rounded to nearest 10), from 09-11, in order.

Fair, but does that mean Tua is a dual-threat while Luck was not. 
With Wilson, was he a “dual-threat” in UW’s very pro-style attack? The categories get blurred. 

[OrangeAfroMan]

Consider the "bottom" of QB rushing stats isn't zero, but some negative number, usually between 50-150.  That's your baseline in reality.

[Mdot21]

I think the "eye appeal" of the very mobile QB will always be better than that of a drop back passer with the same overall stats.

The former will have more "highlight plays" while the latter will simply have a bunch of nicely thrown passes and stats to match.

depends on the drop back passer honestly. Not all passes or passers are created equal.

Murray had some great runs and nice throws. Not sure he had any throws that were as highlight or jaw dropping as some of the ones I saw Haskins make this year. Haskins has an ELITE arm. That thing is off the charts. Pocket passers with that kind of arm impress me more than guys like Murray or Tebow. The kinds of offensive systems those guys play in just naturally produce stat padding and inflated stats.

The only running QB's that ever really blew me away with their running abilities were Vick and VY. Vick was just like Barry Sanders playing QB and VY was just unstoppable in the open field once he started going. Maybe not the best 40 time ever, but once he got going- he was gone. I'd throw Denard in there as well, but honestly he was so bad at passing the football compared to all these other guys- I really just consider him a RB that happened to throw the ball a little bit here and there. Kinda like Tebow- who to me was just a battering ram Fullback/RB like a John Riggins that happened to throw the ball a little bit here and there in a gimmicky before it's time offense that was way ahead of defenses at the time and it took defenses a long time just to catch up.

[rolltidefan]

Fair, but does that mean Tua is a dual-threat while Luck was not.
With Wilson, was he a “dual-threat” in UW’s very pro-style attack? The categories get blurred.

i don't consider either to be dual threats. but, they're both capable of making you pay if you don't at least try to contain them.
they aren't going to tear you up with their legs like murray or even hurts will. but to say they don't use their legs effectively is incorrect. tua and luck moved around with their legs a good bit, but more so looking to find passing lanes. while murray and hurts just take off and make you pay by eating up yards.
also, to whoever said a pocket qb isn't going to win vs a dual threat qb if all things are equal is just wrong. if tua doesn't have an injury driven flop of a game in seccg, he wins it. hell, even with that game, if his top wr and te had not dropped 2 td's (not to mention the 6-8 other drops in the game), he'd have about 260 yds, 3 tds and 2 ints. not great, but not the terrible mess it ended up being. and maybe still saves him the heisman.
as it was, murray deserved it. but it's not like tua didn't have a shot, and was in fact in control until the seccg when it fell apart for him.

[OrangeAfroMan]

So Tua has too much talent around him.
And Murray doesn't have the "arm talent".



Man, you guys are in love with the B10 guy, aren't you?  He had a truly great season...and was a distant 3rd for the Heisman in every region of the country, including the Midwest.  But boy, you guys are really enamored with him.




I guess some people have a hard time differentiating between college performance and NFL draft scouting.  For whatever the reason.

[FearlessF]

Murray's arm is no slouch

[MaximumSam]

So Tua has too much talent around him.
And Murray doesn't have the "arm talent".



Man, you guys are in love with the B10 guy, aren't you?  He had a truly great season...and was a distant 3rd for the Heisman in every region of the country, including the Midwest.  But boy, you guys are really enamored with him.




I guess some people have a hard time differentiating between college performance and NFL draft scouting.  For whatever the reason.

NFL not looking for the best players?

[OrangeAfroMan]

Right, not the most productive ones.