OT - Nassar

[ELA]

I know we had a thread on the old board, then it sort of went away.  I think it's worth bringing up again now with it back in the news.  Obviously his crimes are horrific, but we've known about them for 18 months, and more or less nothing has changed there.  What changed was the bravery of those victims in putting a face to his crimes, and one by one making their stand.  I don't honestly think they are getting enough credit for what they are doing.

I don't want to brush past them, but this is a college football board, and honestly, is there any disagreement on anything I've said yet?

Which brings us to MSU.  I was willing to believe for a bit that is were not dotted and ts were not crossed.  That MSU's College of Orthopedic medicine wasn't communicating with MSU's Title IX department or with USA Gymnastics and vice versa.  That if any had known the other were investigating, they could have done more.  But having been personally involved with the Title IX department at MSU as well as at other universities I am well aware of how woefully under-equipped they are to do their job.  Essentially the federal government took one of their most difficult types of cases to prosecute and decided to dump it on underfunded departments within the universities, and slightly lower their burden, just so they could wash their hands of it.  I have yet to encounter one such department (and as far as Big Ten schools go, MSU and UMs are the only ones I'm familiar with) who are anywhere near competent enough at that job.  If it's a slam dunk case (either way), they have a prayer...unless one side is willing to pay big money in lawyering up, in which case you can bully them into pretty much anything you want.

So given what I know about these investigations at MSU, and elsewhere, I was willing to give some benefit of the doubt.  After all, this wasn't football.  This was gymnastics.  Why would MSU try and cover up on ongoing gymnastics scandal?  From the MSU gymnastics coach?  Sure.  Having the Team USA doctor on staff is probably not a half bad recruiting tool.  From the university?  Doesn't make sense.  So you combine a general departmental incompetence with a complete lack of motive, and I'd buy that this slipped through the cracks, and maybe was not a fireable offense.

After hearing these statements, that is not a defensible position.  It's still tough to formulate any sort of solid argument as to a cover up, but for that many people to make reports with low level staffers that went nowhere means you have a horrific lack of training in dealing with these types of matters, and/or a system for moving these reports up the chain that is inconceivably broken.

Beyond that, the handling this week is beyond horrifying, as too many people in key positions within the university showed their true colors, and they are no good.  There are just about 5 people in the entire MSU community who think President Simon deserves to keep her job, and unfortunately they are all on the Board of Trustees.  The MSU paper and MSU student government both unanimously support her dismissal, the faculty put for a vote of no confidence, my Social Media feeds from MSU friends has been universal in its horror at MSU leadership's take on this.  Yet, she remains.  Not only does she remain, but the Board issues a statement of support of her after DAY ONE of the statements.  Then you wonder why, and this asshat Trustee goes on the radio yesterday and says Simon is a great president, just look at the basketball arena renovations, MSU is "more than just this Nassar thing."

Yes, MSU is defined by more than one thing, and had MSU handled it appropriately in the beginning, they wouldn't be defined by it at all.  If they had even handled it better from 2014 (when somebody in power other than the gymnastics coach) was notified, it probably wouldn't define them.  But at this point, yes, it defines them.  I enjoy MSU sports.  But what I enjoy far more is the four years, with amazing opportunities to study, to work abroad, to obtain a degree that allowed me to pursue an advanced degree, begin my career, start my family and put a roof over their head.  That is all thanks to Michigan State University, not the MSU Spartans, and the absolute clown show running the university doesn't seem to get that in the least.

If I feel let down by them, I can only imagine how let down the real victims in all of this must feel.

[UT-Erin03]

Almost all involvement of scandals can be overcome with the correct action and repercussions, unless you are the direct abuser and refuse to accept responsibility or consequence for your actions.   I can understand your feelings on this, and as a woman I will always stand by the victims and any actions taken against the ones who abused their power, or any others associated with the enabling and supporting of the abuser during the events that have been brought to light.

It's sickening how far this rabbit hole of abuse has gone, and it's devastating for all of the victims in this ring of horror.  I can only hope every sport in this country takes note and does better moving forward.  Unacceptable behavior for many associations and people, and it's gone on for too long.  Hopefully the victims can find some small solace or relief in Nassar's sentencing today, even though their lives will never be the same. 
 

[Brutus Buckeye]

Dude got 40-125 years. 

It probably didn't help that he bares an uncanny resemblance to Warren Jeffs.

[HailHailMSP]

Good summary and thoughts ELA.

It seems the survivor statements really expanded this story to a national scale. That, and of course some incredible investigative reporting by local newspapers like the IndyStar, Lansing State Journal, and others.

I cant begin to fathom the weight each of those individuals carried staring Nassar in the face in front of a full court room and national tv cameras focused on them. This one quote from one of the lesser known victims struck me the most. "Perhaps you have figured it out by now, but little girls don't stay little forever. They grow into strong women that return to destroy your world."

I don't know enough about it to get into the weeds on who knew what when for USA Gymnastics and MSU over the last two decades. What has blown my mind in all of this is how poorly Michigan State has managed the PR  the last 4-6 weeks. Hire a couple of very expensive PR consultants; it would have been well worth it.

• First the President states via a press release they will not being attending the statements, but rather watching from afar. Then they take flack for not attending and go for part of one day, and get directly questioned by one victim about their future availability.
• Izzo gets peppered with questions. While he answers candidly, he appeared ill prepared and got himself in trouble with a few comments, causing a storm of reaction, including from Ali Raisman's mother. This is less about him to me, and more about someone not helping prepare him for it as the face of the University. Note, keep the focus of any statement on the victims.
• Trustee Ferguson scoffs at any of this being a part of the Board agenda, and more or less baits the NCAA into knocking on their doors in a radio interview that almost seemed made up. A few other Trustee's have had less flammable, but similar statements.
• Hollis has been in a Nuclear Silo through it all. Meanwhile, no one has been able to explain when pressed how the Gymnastics coach Klages was able to retire with a payout and benefits.

The learning in all of this for me as a parent of course is to ask questions and be a little less trusting. Try to ensure your kids aren't in environments that leave them in closed 1 on 1 situations with adults. There was a lot of trust with an overall abusive culture in youth gymnastics that facilitated this.

[Brutus Buckeye]

I'll bet that gymnastics is a magnet for these types. 

Pretty blurry line between spotting and groping. 

[MarqHusker]

This has been one of those stories that's been covered, but people seem afraid to look at it too closely as it is so dang creepy and disgraceful.    The details in those first IndyStar stories on this were stunning to me, even though I always tell myself to never be surprised by human beings, they are capable of doing anything.

I know as a coach of young girls, not only do they remind us repeatedly not to even hold a practice alone as the solo coach (make sure some other parent is either helping, or at least in the gym, but to be alone with a player,  for pretty much any reason, no way.

I too don't really understand the approach MSU has taken on this.     If I don't have 'talking points' or some messaging here with my employer on any number of potential issues (real or perceived) I'm seeking them out before I utter a single syllable.   This is like 100X the typical white collar crisis management, yet there's no leadership.

[ELA]

The learning in all of this for me as a parent of course is to ask questions and be a little less trusting. Try to ensure your kids aren't in environments that leave them in closed 1 on 1 situations with adults. There was a lot of trust with an overall abusive culture in youth gymnastics that facilitated this.

One of the things that shocked me about this was how many victims said this happened when they were dropped off by their parents at Nassar's home for extra medical treatment.
Maybe more has changed in the past 5-10 years than I would think, but I would NEVER even fathom doing that with my children.
I think this all ties back to the conversation in the other thread about youth sports.  As bad as soccer, baseball, basketball, whatever is, you have time, and you have opportunities to be seen.  Hell these gymnasts are like 15 when they go to the Olympics, and that's all they've got, there is no professional gymnastics, which means you probably have to be known on the national scene by what?  10?  11?  You miss your shot, you've missed it.  The coach tells you to get this treatment, you do it.  You have a chance to be seen by the Team USA doctor, you do it.  It's also controlled by such a small number of people.  In basketball, you don't like what this AAU coach is doing, switch teams.  If you are on Geddert's bad side, you are done with USA Gymnastics.
It really was the perfect environment for a predator to thrive.  He's splitting time between three entities, so unless they compare notes...; he has two (the gym and USA Gymnastics) with a long history of turning a blind eye towards all kinds of mistreatment of kids, and a a third (MSU) which seems at best woefully incompetent and at best and negligent at worst; the nature of the sport means the majority of the athletes he's treating is minors, which are (a) what he wants and (b) less likely to report him; and you get parents who are willing to do anything to put their kids in this position.
Systemically what I hope for is an overhaul of the entire Title IX system for reporting this stuff on campus.

[ELA]

I too don't really understand the approach MSU has taken on this.     If I don't have 'talking points' or some messaging here with my employer on any number of potential issues (real or perceived) I'm seeking them out before I utter a single syllable.   This is like 100X the typical white collar crisis management, yet there's no leadership.

A lot of people have questioned it being a product of the academia mentality.  They are used to being able to do/say what they want, and while nobody has training for this, most people in the private sector would know not to do a lot of this.  I think there is one BOT member whose comments have made me think maybe he doesn't deserve to lose his job.  The rest?  Gone.  The President?  Gone.  The only one I'm waiting on to see what he knew/did is Hollis.  He's at least been smart enough to stay quiet.  But if he knew enough to have done more, he's gotta go too.  That would sting, he's a home grown, home educated AD< who has done amazing things for MSU.  I think just last summer he was ranked 2nd best AD in the nation by a survey of his peers.  MSU probably can never do better than him, certainly not one like him who is also an alum, not feeling pressure to jump to a Texas or a Florida if the money is there.

[847badgerfan]

Have the lawsuits started yet, or it too early for that to happen?

I'm guessing the NCAA will stay away, given their epic fail in the PSU case...

[MarqHusker]

A lot of people have questioned it being a product of the academia mentality.  They are used to being able to do/say what they want, and while nobody has training for this, most people in the private sector would know not to do a lot of this. 

That's an excellent point.  I don't want to make this sound like a bash union/bash academia rant but this is definitely a shortcoming (accountability) at those levels.   We're getting this in our school district now,  the School District Super (Male, Phd. of course) was put on leave, and now has resigned, as has the District's HR Director (a woman).  The Board won't say boo.  Public is foaming.  sorry for the tangent. 

[ELA]

Have the lawsuits started yet, or it too early for that to happen?

I'm guessing the NCAA will stay away, given their epic fail in the PSU case...

Lawsuits are most certainly coming.  Rightfully so.
NCAA sent MSU a letter yesterday saying they were looking into it.  Just so happened to be a day after one of the braindead trustees went on the radio and basically laughed at the NCAA and siad if they didn't do anything about PSU, they aren't going to do anything here.
He's probably right, but the stupidity to force their hand like that is beyond words.  Particularly since the programs in question I guess would be gymnastics?  I would think they could go after MSU gymnastics without too much backlash.  To be honest, I don't know why MSU would keep the program after this.  There is no reputation there.  MSU gymnastics will forever be linked with only one thing, this.  I just think you have to wipe that off.

[847badgerfan]

That's a good point.

Killing the program would send a message.

[HailHailMSP]

One of the things that shocked me about this was how many victims said this happened when they were dropped off by their parents at Nassar's home for extra medical treatment.
Maybe more has changed in the past 5-10 years than I would think, but I would NEVER even fathom doing that with my children.
I think this all ties back to the conversation in the other thread about youth sports.  As bad as soccer, baseball, basketball, whatever is, you have time, and you have opportunities to be seen.  Hell these gymnasts are like 15 when they go to the Olympics, and that's all they've got, there is no professional gymnastics, which means you probably have to be known on the national scene by what?  10?  11?  You miss your shot, you've missed it.  The coach tells you to get this treatment, you do it.  You have a chance to be seen by the Team USA doctor, you do it.  It's also controlled by such a small number of people.  In basketball, you don't like what this AAU coach is doing, switch teams.  If you are on Geddert's bad side, you are done with USA Gymnastics.
It really was the perfect environment for a predator to thrive.  He's splitting time between three entities, so unless they compare notes...; he has two (the gym and USA Gymnastics) with a long history of turning a blind eye towards all kinds of mistreatment of kids, and a a third (MSU) which seems at best woefully incompetent and at best and negligent at worst; the nature of the sport means the majority of the athletes he's treating is minors, which are (a) what he wants and (b) less likely to report him; and you get parents who are willing to do anything to put their kids in this position.
Systemically what I hope for is an overhaul of the entire Title IX system for reporting this stuff on campus.

You nailed it. Even taking Nassar out of the equation, the abusive nature created by Geddert alone was horrific enough. 
I have a young daughter that has fallen in love with dance (lucky me). There are some similarities at least on the smaller stage between dance and gymnastics. She's probably a few years away from practices that get lengthy on weekends (3-4 hrs), but it has me thinking what my wife and I will do if and when that time comes. Get to know the adults involved in coaching your kids. Ensure there are always two in the room with individuals. Be around practice as much as possible. Engage with your child. Etc. Etc. I do see parents just blindly drop their kid off at the door and then pick them up 4-6 hours later, not knowing who was involved with their kids. It's scary, especially in an environment where you have visiting coaches and instructors and have smaller breakout sessions happening. 

[MaximumSam]

It's really kind of bizarre.

1. Gordon Gee was run out of OSU for basically joking about Louisville's integrity.  That was pretty goofy, but you know, it's the age of political correctness.  Having an employee who rapes 150 people is a different sort of animal, and I'm shocked they haven't run the president out just over the optics of it.

2. The message coming out of there is also weird.  The president has done a good job with finances?  That's great, but... you know, address the whole thing.  Saying things like you barely even discussed it is not the sort of message one would want to send on this sort of matter.  OBVIOUSLY