header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~

 (Read 122295 times)

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7848
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1036 on: February 12, 2018, 07:50:13 PM »
I would agree. I'm not sure if it was MSU's defense, or Haas just not fighting for position, but one thing I noticed is that he was consistently kept off the low block. He was setting up in the high post more often than not.
Haas is basically unstoppable (>60%) if he gets the ball on the low block. He did pretty well to still shoot 54% from the high post, and as the game wore on--and MSU proved they weren't going to double him--he started backing his man down off the dribble. But he is not as effective in the high post. Especially given the massive weight difference between Haas and the MSU defenders, I don't understand why he wasn't forcing his way down low.
That said, I honestly think it's more than just MSU's defense on the Purdue 3pt shooters. This has been a 5-game malaise. The whole team has stopped shooting at the level they're capable of, even with a lot of open looks.
Question: Is Hass that good a post player?
I get that he's effective, but I don't know how much is post skill and how much is ability to either bully the small or score in the tip-in/rebound game. And I ask this because it strikes me the first is more prone to being fed, while the second is more about game flow. Not that I don't think he's a good post, but I don't have a read on if he's the kind you just dump it down to. 
(Perhaps this difference is just academic. I look forward to UW defenders fouling him as they hold on for dear life)

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20280
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1037 on: February 12, 2018, 08:08:44 PM »
I think his post moves were better than anyone MSU has faced so far anywhere near that size.  As pointed out he needs to work harder on battling for position.  Maybe he's so used to overwhelming guys, he wasn't used to having to fight for that position, and didn't know how to.  But he wasn't a rebound/tip in guy.  In fact quite the opposite, I was very underwhelmed by his ineffectiveness on the glass.  What he did, once he got the ball, I was very impressed with, the only defense was to force him out before he got the feed.

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20280
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1038 on: February 13, 2018, 10:11:28 AM »
Updated Bubble Watch sees OSU join MSU and Purdue as Locks; UM upgraded to Should Be In and Nebraska remains Work Left To Do.  No PSU appearance yet.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37407
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1039 on: February 13, 2018, 10:16:40 AM »
big game for the Huskers tonight

if they want to dance
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1040 on: February 13, 2018, 11:17:18 AM »
big game for the Huskers tonight

if they want to dance
Huge game for both teams tonight.  According to the Worldwide Leader, Nebraska:
  • RPI:  56
  • Top 100 RPI wins:  vs #37 Michigan, vs #80 Boston College, @ #93 Northwestern
  • vs RPI top-25:  0-5
  • vs RPI top-50:  1-5
  • vs RPI top-100:  3-8
  • vs RPI top-150:  8-8
  • vs RPI sub-150:  11-0
  • SoS:  #126
  • Remaining games after tonight:  @ #182 Illinois, vs #107 Indiana, vs #84 Penn State
Maryland:
  • RPI:  61
  • Top 100 RPI wins:  vs #34 Butler, vs #84 Penn State, vs #93 Northwestern, vs #96 Bucknell
  • vs RPI top-25:  0-5
  • vs RPI top-50:  1-8
  • vs RPI top-100:  4-9
  • vs RPI top-150:  7-10
  • vs RPI sub-150:  9-0
  • SoS:  #35
  • Remaining games after tonight:  vs #206 Rutgers, @ #93 Northwestern, vs #37 Michigan

Nebraska has a much better record (10-4/19-8 vs 6-8/17-10) but they have also played a much easier schedule both in the league and OOC.  

Both teams desperately need quality wins and this is the best remaining opponent for Nebraska and the second best for Maryland.  I would say that the winner tonight becomes the most likely fifth tournament team for the B1G and the loser will have a LOT of work to do.  

mcwterps1

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1041 on: February 13, 2018, 12:06:57 PM »
Oh yeah. 

All Maryland has to do is win tonight, win their remaining games, and the B1G tournament, all with 3 major contributors out with injuries, and they'll be in.

Got it. 

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1042 on: February 13, 2018, 12:22:37 PM »
Huge game for both teams tonight.  
One other thing about Nebraska and Maryland that could have an impact:
Nebraska has won five straight and seven of their last nine with the lone loss being a very forgivable close loss in Columbus.  If they win out they'll head into the BTT at MSG in NYC on a nine game winning streak and having won 11 of their last 12.  
Maryland won their last game and two of their last three.  If they win out they'll head into the BTT at MSG in NYC on a five game winning streak and having won six of their last seven.  
I think the committee talks more about "last 12" rather than "last 10" now.  That is, of course, complicated by the fact that these two teams could play one, two, three, or four games in the BTT at MSG in NYC.  
In Nebraska's case, if they win out, they will be guaranteed to be no worse than 10-2 in their "last 12".  

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1043 on: February 13, 2018, 12:29:00 PM »
Oh yeah.

All Maryland has to do is win tonight, win their remaining games, and the B1G tournament, all with 3 major contributors out with injuries, and they'll be in.

Got it.
It is a reach and I wouldn't bet on it, but it isn't THAT big of a reach.  Maryland isn't THAT far out right now.  Up until the Penn State loss they were listed in Lunardi's "next four out".  A win at Nebraska tonight would get them close to where they were before the Penn State loss.  The home game against Rutgers should not be a problem.  The last two (@NU, vsM) seem close to toss-ups to me.  If they won all four they would finish 10-8/21-10.  I ran that through RPI Wizard (which was difficult because I couldn't find Maryland - Apparently they are unaware that Maryland is no longer in the ACC).  Anyway, I got an expected RPI of #39 out of that.  That is at least on the bubble so they wouldn't need to win the BTT at MSG in NYC.  I think they would need a win or two to feel comfortable, but they wouldn't need a B1G Championship.  

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1044 on: February 13, 2018, 12:48:47 PM »
Question for the group:

What do you think Ohio State's seed "ceiling" is?  

I ran RPI Wizard for the Buckeyes winning out including wins in the BTT over:
  • Maryland (possible 8/9 winner)
  • Michigan (possible 4/5/12/13 winner)
  • Purdue (possible 2/3/6/7/10/11/14 winner)
That is pretty much the best-case-scenario for Ohio State.  At that point they would be 29-5, Outright B1G Champions, and B1G Tournament Champions.  RPI Wizard says they'd have a #6 RPI with a #24 SoS.  

NOTE:  I'm NOT saying I think that will happen or even that there is more than a token chance of that happening, I'm just trying to figure out what the best-case-scenario is for the Buckeyes.  Is that a 1-seed?  

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12140
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1045 on: February 13, 2018, 01:18:17 PM »
Question: Is Hass that good a post player?
I get that he's effective, but I don't know how much is post skill and how much is ability to either bully the small or score in the tip-in/rebound game. And I ask this because it strikes me the first is more prone to being fed, while the second is more about game flow. Not that I don't think he's a good post, but I don't have a read on if he's the kind you just dump it down to.
(Perhaps this difference is just academic. I look forward to UW defenders fouling him as they hold on for dear life)
He's a phenomenal post player. Having watched Purdue heavily over the last 4 years, he's really put together a great skill set in the post. 
As I've said, if he gets the ball on the low block, it's over. If he's single-covered, that ball is going in the basket. [He's shooting about 62% on the year]. He can turn either direction, he's got a lot of spin moves, and is good with the little hook shot with either hand. And it's not just "bullying a smaller center". He plays fine against other big guys. 
If you decide double him, he's become very good at feeling the pressure and understanding the offense, so he's going to pass out to an open shooter. And Purdue's got a lot of those.
That wasn't true a few years ago. He was hesitant in the post, had a tendency to bring the ball down before making his move, and didn't have good ability to pass out of the double-team. So he was responsible for an incredible amount of turnovers. But he's cleaned up that part of his game.
As I mentioned earlier, he's got deficits. MSU kept him off the low block on Saturday, forcing him to play from the high post. He still did alright (shot 54%), but it's not his ideal game. Any time prior to this year, the idea that he was going to back someone down off the dribble was basically a recipe for a turnover. So I was happy to see that not be the case Saturday, but it's not his comfort zone and his efficiency showed it. He's actually not that good of a rebounder, which is surprising for someone who is 7'2", so yeah, the rebound/tip-in isn't where he's creating his stats. And defensively he's a liability. He can defend traditional centers, but he doesn't have the lateral quickness to defend an athletic center, and is useless away from the basket against a stretch 5 like Wagner. 
But offensively, he's an amazingly efficient post player. He's got all the moves, and as I said, unless you're able to force him off the low block like MSU did [and which would likely have resulted in a lot more fouls called on another court], you either are letting him score or doubling him and letting a shooter have a wide open look. 

ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 20280
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1046 on: February 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM »
Haas basically gets the Shaq treatment from the officials because they don't know how to call him.  He gets fouled more often with no calls than anyone in the league, but also gets away with more fouls that aren't called than anyone in the league.

It's more or less the refs acknowledging that if they called it straight up Purdue would be in the double bonus by the first TV timeout of every game...but Haas would have already fouled out too.  So they just call nothing involving him.

boilerbanger

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 217
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1047 on: February 13, 2018, 08:03:11 PM »
I think we needed Vince to take Goins to the hoop on Saturday, I understand not driving on Jackson, but think Vince has the advantage with Goins guarding him.  Vince has to get it going again as we will go as he goes.

mcwterps1

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3152
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1048 on: February 13, 2018, 08:09:46 PM »
Huerter has done a good job defensively on Palmer.

So,  of course, Huerter swats at the air and picks up a foul and has to sit out early in the second half.

medinabuckeye1

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 8906
  • Liked:
Re: ~2017-18 Big Ten Basketball Thread~
« Reply #1049 on: February 13, 2018, 08:46:01 PM »
Tight game in Lincoln with major NCAA implications for both teams.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.