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The Power Five => Big XII => Topic started by: TexasFan on November 25, 2017, 09:56:11 AM

Title: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: TexasFan on November 25, 2017, 09:56:11 AM
I thought we were back and everything was looking ok?     I have never seen a stadium leave so quietly as I did last night.  

https://sports.yahoo.com/win-texas-texas-tech-ad-says-coach-kliff-kingsbury-will-return-2018-063132728.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/win-texas-texas-tech-ad-says-coach-kliff-kingsbury-will-return-2018-063132728.html)
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 25, 2017, 08:35:32 PM
I watched the 3rd Q of that game sand Texas seemed to have the thing in hand.  What happened?
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: FearlessF on November 25, 2017, 10:06:02 PM
roaches
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: utee94 on November 25, 2017, 10:57:04 PM
What happened?  Sucking sucks.



Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: longhorn320 on November 26, 2017, 01:28:49 AM
remember when DKR said that when you throw the ball 3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad

well the 2 bad things kept happening over and over
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 09:03:16 AM
I thought we were back and everything was looking ok?    
Yes, we all thought we were back.  Just like we did in 2014 when Charlie's first team won three in a row to become bowl eligible, or when the 2015 beat OU, or when the 2016 started the season by beating Notre Dame.  We take the bait every time because we're hungry for success and we want to believe we're just the flip of a switch away.
The problem isn't with the players.
I follow recruiting.  The players Texas has are players OU, A&M, LSU and even Alabama wanted.
The problem isn't the coaching.
Short of Saban, Meyer and maybe Swinney or Fisher, a coach who won an MNC as an assistant, gained a reputation as a recruiter and dominated at P6 is the best we can hope to have.
The problem is unrealistic expectations creating chaos.  We want immediate results and we're not about to sit around and wait for stupid coaches to take their lumps and learn their lessons.
We've had seven different OCs in eight years.  We've had a new inexperienced starter at QB for each of the last four seasons.
The offense sucked and we don't like Tim Beck.  Great.  Let's get a new OC.  Maybe Thompson or Rising will be his QB and Ehlinger can line up with Bueschelle beside Heard while we get to hear the coaches use inexperience at QB at as an excuse for yet another crappy year.
At least we have Orlando.  I remember Bedford looked good his first year too - until Mack's players graduated or went pro and he had to grow up Charlie's players.  I wonder how Orlando will do next year without Malik, Poona Ford, Jason Hall, Holton Hill, maybe Elliott.   No problem.  Right?
Despite his smoke screen of bravado, Herman is clearly over his head.  Texas doesn't play in the American Athletic Conference and being the head coach requires more wherewithal than being a coordinator.
Let's just hope we can all just be patient for the next two, three, five, seven or ten years it takes for him to grow into the job.   It's absolute torture to see him going through the exact same growing pains Charlie Strong went through.  Let's just hope we don't see him learn and grow and only to be replaced by the next redundantly unprepared coaching star of the AAC.  I don't think I could stand to watch this scenario play out for a third time in a row.
If there's any consolation, it's the fact that Charlie Strong still hasn't learned the importance of special teams, so at least we're not dealing with that anymore.   Just everything else.  All over again.  Just like deja vu.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 10:16:35 AM
I agree with CH, but dammit I can't agree 100%.

All I know is we had the ball.  It was 3rd and 2.  We were on Tech's side of the 50.  I looked at the clock.  Time was on our side.  We had 3 timeouts.  Tech had 1.  And then it went through my mind - geez T95, we got this.  2 downs to rush for 2 yards, while keeping the clock moving.  Welp, this one's in the bag.

And then dammit to almighty hell, Tim Beck calls a pass play.  Given Sam's late-game true freshman proclivity for bone-headed decisions.

Fire Tim Beck.  Fire his ass.

And then silently consider that Kliff Kingsbury just outcoached Tom Herman.  Because that's what was going through the heads of Texas fans as they moped out of DKR.

Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 27, 2017, 10:44:17 AM
BC you clearly have the hots for Kliff Kingsbury ... 
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 27, 2017, 10:57:42 AM
I watched that game with my UT-grad brother-in-law.  Oh my Lord.... that was high comedy at the end.  What a great game.  And I hate tech.  

Kept trying to tell him though.... the horns only blew a 3 point lead because they wouldn't run the ball to kill the clock.  Imagine blowing a THIRTY-FOUR point lead because you wouldn't run the ball and milk clock.  Y'all ain't got nuthin' on the Aggies in that department.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 11:18:39 AM
I don't like Beck.  I certainly don't like Mehringer.  I don't like Drayton.  I don't like Warehime.  I'm not sure who Meekins even coaches.

And I don't even particularly even like Herman anymore.

But I certainly don't want to take yet another step backwards so I just hope he's not too arrogant to get better.

Huckleberry.  I appreciate your kind words and hope you get the coach you want.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 27, 2017, 11:24:35 AM
Thanks.  Problem is... I have no idea what coach I want.  Or if it would even matter if we got who I wanted.  

Actually... that's not true.  I've always wanted Paul Johnson.  Gimme a triple option offense and a brick wall defense.  I don't care we never throw a pass.

I'm not sure how successful that would be in the SEC West (probably not much) but man it'd be entertaining.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 11:31:28 AM
Jimbo reminds me of the Franchione hire.  The pendulum has swung back to "by God we're A&M and we have money, let's go get a big name."

My point is, if A&M is going to throw around that kind of money - then work something out with Matt Campbell.  I would fear him more than Jimbo.

But he's not a "helmet" coach.  Yet.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 11:35:03 AM
Actually... that's not true.  I've always wanted Paul Johnson.  Gimme a triple option offense and a brick wall defense.  I don't care we never throw a pass.
Heh!  Hells yeah.  Huddle after every play.  Take your time getting back to the line.  Snap the ball when the 45 second clock is down to one.  Use up an entire quarter running one 24 play 80 yard drive.  Keep your defense fresh.  Keep your opponent's offense off the field.
I love it.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 11:42:45 AM
If Texas hires a *real* AD, I could see Herman being 2 and done.  Given things don't trend positive.

Look what happened to Patterson as AD.  In and out.  Why?  Because he was a jack wagon.

News flash - Herman is a jack wagon.  Hire an AD now.  If we go through another year of this offense and 5-6 wins, we are spinning our wheels.

Mack wants the job.  Hire him.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 12:38:51 PM
If Texas hires a *real* AD, I could see Herman being 2 and done.  Given things don't trend positive.

Look what happened to Patterson as AD.  In and out.  Why?  Because he was a jack wagon.

News flash - Herman is a jack wagon.  Hire an AD now.  If we go through another year of this offense and 5-6 wins, we are spinning our wheels.

Mack wants the job.  Hire him.
I honestly believe it takes at least four or five years for a new coach to implement his culture, recruit his players and build his program.
Joe Paterno went 6-6 his first year at Penn St, Bobby Bowden went 5-6 his first year at FSU, Bear Bryant went 5-4-1 his first year at Bama, Woody Hays went 4-3-2 his first year at Ohio State, Lou Holtz went 5-6 his first year with Notre Dame, Frank Beamer went 2-9 and 3-8 his first two years with Virginia Tech.
Mack Brown rebuilt North Carolina by going 1-10, 1-10, 6-4-1, 7-4 and 9-3 in his first five years.  A dramatic upward trend that was completely unforeseeable without seasons 3 through 5.
This idea that a coach has to win immediately is an absurd byproduct of a throw-away society.
Charlie Strong lost to Kansas which is unforgivable but Texas has endured a hell of lot of indignities over the last forty years.   How is losing to Kansas any worse than 59 yards of total offense against Arkansas or giving up 550 yards rushing to BYU or giving up 64 points to OU or 66-3 or losing to Rice?
Who are we kidding? We have no dignity left to lose.

Charlie Strong should've gotten five years.  Tom Herman should get five years.

Anytime you have to start over, you set your program back even farther it would be.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 12:43:40 PM
Anytime you have to start over, you set your program back even farther it would be.

This is solid theory that cannot be consistently proven in application.

Too many schools have taken the right hire and shot straight to the top.  It just happens.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 01:18:15 PM
This is solid theory that cannot be consistently proven in application.

Too many schools have taken the right hire and shot straight to the top.  It just happens.
Uhm... no.  That is not accurate.
In fact, the only one I can think of who even came close was Gus Malzahn at Auburn who lost the BSC game his first year.  Not quite "the top" but close.
Let's look at who else is at or near the top, what they inherited and how long it took to get there.
Dabo Swinney.  Lost 26 games over seven years before he "shot straight to the top."   Even had a losing season his third year at Clemson.  Would we stand for something like that at Texas?  Doubtful.  
Lincoln Riley.  Inherited the best team in the Big 12.   'Course they haven't won an MNC in 17 years.
Paul Chryst.  He was rather mediocre at Pittsburgh but people like Gary Andersen and Brett Bielema were able to win there too.  As a matter of fact, nobody's had a bad season there in 16 years.  But... have they won a national championship?   No.  Not quite.
Mark Richt is an excellent coach.  Of course he spent 15 years at Georgia before he went to Miami.  Kirby Smart got to reap the benefits of the foundation Richt built.
James Franklin has done remarkably well at Penn State.  Of course, he hasn't been perfect and it's taken him a while.  There were time when it looked like he'd be run out of town - like the time Temple destroyed them.
You know... honestly, I'm looking and I can't find one.   Other than Urban Meyer and Nick Saban - who exactly has been able to be wildly successful immediately?
It just doesn't happen no matter how green the grass on the other side may look.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 02:45:32 PM
Uhm... no.  That is not accurate.
I think you are viewing this in terms of a coaches career, whereas I am contending that many coaches (experienced or otherwise) have taken over jobs and built a contender right away.

You even name one - Franklin, for example.  Sure he took his lumps elsewhere, but I'm just talking about it from the Penn State perspective, in that case.  They made a change and boom, success.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 03:51:26 PM
When I talked about Franklin taking his lumps and losing to Temple, I meant at Penn State.  20 or 25 games into their jobs at Texas and Penn State respectively, it looked like we had made the better choice in picking Strong over Franklin.  Then all of sudden the 2016 Nittany Lions went on a 9 game winning streak while the Horns lost 6 of 10 by less than a TD and in less than three months Franklin looked like a great coach and Strong looked like a terrible one.

If Franklin had come to Texas would he have been just as successful as he is at Penn State?

Or... what if Florida had hired Charlie Strong instead of Will Muschamp?  Would Florida and Texas both still be enjoying the success they had in the 2000s?
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 04:07:04 PM
Well, I just feel like Herman was hired by mob rule.

We didn't have a seasoned AD to tell us no, that's not the guy.  That he's still green.  That he's not ready for this level.  That he's too cocky.

Perrin had no business hiring a head coach for this program.  And to what level he was involved, Fenves sure as hell doesn't.

None of the above says Herman won't be successful at Texas, because I hope he is.  But the statements above still stand.

I just want an AD, and let's go from there.  And not a Fenves gender/race based selection.  McRaven is starting to somewhat disappoint me.  I was ready for some no-nonsense leadership.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 04:22:58 PM
Well, I just feel like Herman was hired by mob rule.

We didn't have a seasoned AD to tell us no, that's not the guy.  That he's still green.  That he's not ready for this level.  That he's too cocky.

Perrin had no business hiring a head coach for this program.  And to what level he was involved, Fenves sure as hell doesn't.

None of the above says Herman won't be successful at Texas, because I hope he is.  But the statements above still stand.

I just want an AD, and let's go from there.  And not a Fenves gender/race based selection.  McRaven is starting to somewhat disappoint me.  I was ready for some no-nonsense leadership.
I completely agree with the first five paragraphs.  You lost me on the last one.  I guess I missed an article on Fenves making race and gender a priority in hiring so I don't know anything about that.  Guess I'll have to google.
About the first part of your part of your post, yeah.
Strong wasn't working out as quickly or smoothly as we hoped while Herman seemed to be tearing it up two hours away.   We couldn't have that.
To me, Herman's resume looked so remarkably similar to Strong's, part of my better judgment was yelling, "this is STUPID!"  But, admittedly, there was also that nagging voice of "what if."

What if - Herman is the next great thing.  The next Urban Meyer, the next Nick Saban, the next Gus Malzahn, the next Vince Lombardi.
What if the University of Houston breaks into the CFP and wins it?
What if A&M hires him and he wins several MNCs there?
We knew what we had with Strong.  We had no idea what we might have with Herman.  I got caught up in the fervor too.
I wanted to believe he was next DKR and Mack Brown.
Instead it's like watching an orangutan clean a loaded shotgun.   You're not quite sure how it's going to turn out but you know it's probably going to be more bad than interesting. 
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 04:54:34 PM
I completely agree with the first five paragraphs.  You lost me on the last one.  I guess I missed an article on Fenves making race and gender a priority in hiring so I don't know anything about that.
Rumoured here and there that Fenves has pushed Plonsky for the job.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 05:21:42 PM
Hmm.... I had not heard those rumors.  

I hear about Plonsky from time to time.  She's been good for women's athletics at the university and she encroached into even other territories with Powers' blessing, but I heard her authority was waning somewhat nowadays and I hadn't heard anything about Fenves feeling especially positive or negative about her or towards her in any way.

Googling didn't tell me much either.

Maybe that's insiders gossip.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: longhorn320 on November 27, 2017, 05:28:04 PM
I read on another forum that Mack wants the AD position at UT
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 27, 2017, 05:33:57 PM
He might could be a good one.  The very same achilles' heels that undermined him as a coach could strengthen him as an AD.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 27, 2017, 05:52:30 PM
Yes Mack wants it.

He loves this program.

Ingrates.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 27, 2017, 06:12:39 PM
Heh!  Hells yeah.  Huddle after every play.  Take your time getting back to the line.  Snap the ball when the 45 second clock is down to one.  Use up an entire quarter running one 24 play 80 yard drive.  Keep your defense fresh.  Keep your opponent's offense off the field.
I love it.
I hear Les is available, if you're ready to part ways with Herman.
You'll get exactly what you wished for.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CWSooner on November 27, 2017, 11:05:26 PM
Bob Stoops.  Hired in 1999.  Won the national championship in 2000.  Oklahoma had gone 12-22 over John Blake's three-year  tenure.

Larry Coker.  Promoted to HFC in 2001.  Won the national championship in 2001.  Miami had gone 18-7 in Butch Davis' last two seasons.

Jim Tressel.  Hired in 2001.  Won the national championship in 2002.  Ohio State had gone 14-10 in John Cooper's last two seasons.

One inherited a longtime power now broken on the rocks.  One inherited a power program rebounding from the rocks.  And one inherited a longtime power that was underachieving.

Everybody saw that.  Every fan, every administrator.

There's where giving a new coach 5 years to install his system and change the culture got trashed in the search for quick success.

I wonder if there's something unusual about the UT job that led to Charlie Strong failing.  If there is so much in the job description that the HFC doesn't have time to coach.  Charlie Strong can coach football.  I was greatly worried about him succeeding too well at UT.  I hoped that the Sooners could beat him badly enough, often enough, right off the bat that he would not get enough time to get UT back on track.  Instead, he went 1-2 against us and his two losses were very close.

But the program went further off the tracks, and he got fired

Now he's coaching elsewhere and succeeding again.  Proving again that he can coach.

Strange.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 28, 2017, 11:07:54 AM
Good post, CW.

In answer to your rhetorical question, I think it's a variety of factors.

Most important factor is the talent in the cupboard.

Mackovic left Mack dearth on defense and an abundance on offense.

Mack was able to capitalize on offense and move enough people from one position to another to mitigate the defensive gaps.

Not sure what Blake, Butch & Cooper left on the shelves at O! Miami & tOSU but I assume it was enough to get their successors started.

Mack left Charlie talent on defense but not a lot on offense.  Then, right or wrong, Charlie thinned it even more by getting rid of Chet Moss and his parttiers who were almost all on offense.  When injuries subsequently hit, the offense scarcely had enough bodies, let alone talent.

And those obvious problems overshadowed a more insidious one: a bad OC/playcaller arrangement and an offensive philosophy unfit to capitalize on Texas talent.

By the time Charlie was able to plug that sieve in the dam, Mack's defensive talent was gone and Charlie's was green.

Now we're reliving Charlie's ineptitude almost step by step with Tom.

He's better spoken and more sttentive to little details (like uhm.... special teams) but he's also more headstrong and probably not as willing to admit mistakes, learn from them and correct his course.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 11:20:44 AM
Now we're reliving Charlie's ineptitude almost step by step with Tom.
Sure seems to be that way.

I just don't know about what we've done....  This is a $5 million dollar job for a reason.  We've got a 30-something blowing bubble gum, sporting a baseball bat, passing the ball on 3rd and 2 while leading in the waning minutes, and incapable of saying "my bad".

Herman is the type that better start winning fast, because he has no saving graces.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 28, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
I feel like there's a lot of overthinking going on here regarding the UT job and Tom Herman specifically.

3rd and 2.... you're up by 3....  you're on your opponents side of the 50.  You have TEXAS written on the front of your burnt orange jerseys.

My 10 year old son knows to run the ball down their throat...... twice if needed.  To get the 1st down.. and run the clock out.  Herman throws the ball.... the rest is history.




If the horns want to get back to being successful..... stop worrying about meddling in the program.... overreaching admins..... job descriptions.... and all the rest.

Just RUN THE DAMN BALL.  Stop making incredibly stupid decisions like the above.  I don't follow the horns, but I have to believe if he did that against tech, he probably did stupid shit like that all season.  Sumlin did... that's why he's looking for a job.  

Do that.... The rest will take care of itself.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CharleyHorse46 on November 28, 2017, 11:33:45 AM
I was thinking about the differences between Mack and Tom the other day and I tried to imagine how 1998 would've turned out if our coach had been Tom Herman instead of Mack Brown.

We would've lost to New Mexico State.  Tom would've shrugged his shoulders and mumbled something about pixie dust.

Texas would've just barely lost to top ten ranked UCLA and K State but Major Applewhite would've been injured rushing 20 times a game.

Texas would go into its easier stretch with Ricky Williams losing carries to Ricky Brown because he practices harder and Tom is all about setting a standard.

Texas would not beat Nebraska in Lincoln as Mac did.  Despite a valiant effort by Orlando's defense, the 1998 offense will only manage 107 yards and Texas fans will suspect it's because Ricky Williams only got 3 carries, Wane McGarrity, the Horns leading receiver, was missing from the lineup and Major is still banged up from rushing 25 times a game.  

Texas gains bowl eligibility the next week against Oklahoma State to go 6-4.  Herman talks about how an aligned commitment to success paved the way for Texas' remarkable turnaround.

Texas then proceeds to lose its next three by a margin of 89 to 7 but with 87 yards on 27 carries, Herman declares Hodges Mitchell a rising star.

Finishing the year with 134 yards on 16 carries, Ricky Williams goes undrafted and disappears into the Caribbean,

Major Applewhite announces a transfer to LSU.

Dave Campbell's Texas football predicts Texas to finish 4th in the Big 12 South in 1999.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 28, 2017, 12:08:08 PM

Just RUN THE DAMN BALL.  
What if you're pretty bad at running the ball?
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 12:16:23 PM
If CH's above scenario is correct, then that is enough reason to bring back Mack as AD.

Sure, Mack would meddle, but Tom needs a little meddling in his business.  Tom needs to learn how to do this job.

Back to why I bemoan Tom's youth, and how it relates to the 3rd and 2 pass call.

Tom comes from a generation of impatient coaches.  If they run the ball and gain 1, then they're ready to go to the air.  They can't wait.  They give up on the run because it doesn't send a dopamine rush to the brain.  They want instant gratification, reflecting the culture in which we live.

The older guys are smarter than this.  Or should I say wiser.  This is Texas, not Houston.  This is a man's coaching job.  You are not the underdog plotting your ambush.  You are the bulls eye.  And your brand demands success.

Yes, Mack could actually offer Herman a few pointers.  Or fire his ass.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 12:18:01 PM
What if you're pretty bad at running the ball?
You mean if you can't gain 2 yards in 2 plays?
Then run it twice, burn up clock, give them the ball on their side of the field, and play defense.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 28, 2017, 12:26:17 PM
You seem to be speaking very specifically.  I'm talking about in general, which is what Shiner seemed to be alluding to.  

I'm all for running the ball.  But if you're not good at it, it's often not going to be the best bet.  In some situations, sure.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 12:50:03 PM
I'm all for running the ball.  But if you're not good at it, it's often not going to be the best bet.  In some situations, sure.  
Knowing Herman and Beck, I'll wager Texas scantly gives any practice time to the run game, specifically run blocking.
I doubt we put in the time to be good at it.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CWSooner on November 28, 2017, 01:46:27 PM
I was thinking about the differences between Mack and Tom the other day and I tried to imagine how 1998 would've turned out if our coach had been Tom Herman instead of Mack Brown.

We would've lost to New Mexico State.  Tom would've shrugged his shoulders and mumbled something about pixie dust.

Texas would've just barely lost to top ten ranked UCLA and K State but Major Applewhite would've been injured rushing 20 times a game.

Texas would go into its easier stretch with Ricky Williams losing carries to Ricky Brown because he practices harder and Tom is all about setting a standard.

Texas would not beat Nebraska in Lincoln as Mac did.  Despite a valiant effort by Orlando's defense, the 1998 offense will only manage 107 yards and Texas fans will suspect it's because Ricky Williams only got 3 carries, Wane McGarrity, the Horns leading receiver, was missing from the lineup and Major is still banged up from rushing 25 times a game.  

Texas gains bowl eligibility the next week against Oklahoma State to go 6-4.  Herman talks about how an aligned commitment to success paved the way for Texas' remarkable turnaround.

Texas then proceeds to lose its next three by a margin of 89 to 7 but with 87 yards on 27 carries, Herman declares Hodges Mitchell a rising star.

Finishing the year with 134 yards on 16 carries, Ricky Williams goes undrafted and disappears into the Caribbean,

Major Applewhite announces a transfer to LSU.

Dave Campbell's Texas football predicts Texas to finish 4th in the Big 12 South in 1999.
Now that's funny!
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CWSooner on November 28, 2017, 01:49:31 PM
. . . Tom comes from a generation of impatient coaches.  If they run the ball and gain 1, then they're ready to go to the air.  They can't wait.  They give up on the run because it doesn't send a dopamine rush to the brain.  They want instant gratification, reflecting the culture in which we live.
There's a lot of truth there.

Lincoln Riley--who is even younger than Herman--is subject to the same tendency.  Several times this year he has talked in his post-game comments about how he gave up too soon on one thing or another.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 28, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
You seem to be speaking very specifically.  I'm talking about in general, which is what Shiner seemed to be alluding to.  

I'm all for running the ball.  But if you're not good at it, it's often not going to be the best bet.  In some situations, sure.  
The horns have at least one All-American level player on their offensive line... and they were probably all more heavily recruited than were the tech D-line... and most D-lines they face week in and week out.

2 plays to get 2 yards.  Even if they virtually ignore the run game in practice, they should be able to get that against any defense they face in the Big XII save perhaps TCU or OU.  And even if they don't.... it burns clock.  Which is all they really needed to do.

It was a poor decision at a critical time in a close game.  And I'd wager that's happened more than once this season.  The overall point here is rather than look elsewhere for some ambiguous, indirect, loosely related reasons why your team or program isn't good..... perhaps the head coach should be making smarter decisions at key times in games when his team really needs it.  Afterall a head coach's job is to put his team in the best position to win... No more, no less.  Perhaps the overall problem with Texas football is no more complicated than that. 

What would the discussions on this board about longhorn football be like this week had he simply burned clock, won the game and they finished 7-5 this season?  Nevermind whatever other boneheaded decisions he made in other close games they had this year.  I'm betting not nearly as much doom and gloom.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 28, 2017, 03:25:12 PM
Good points.

A quick look through the recruiting ranking analysis tells me Texas currently has roughly the 13th most talented roster, which should be good for more than 6-6.  So UT fans are probably right to have some angst about year 1 under Herman.  Taking over a 5-7 team and going 6-6 is technically improvement, but clearly the roster dearth left to Strong by Mack was no longer a prime factor.  Strong rebuilt the roster but evidently couldn't get them to play like a good team, or wasn't given enough time.  A coach who was legit ready for the position (probably) should've been able to hammer out at least 8 wins, maybe more like 9, in a transition year, in this league.  

On the other hand.....devil's advocate....

Texas went 1-4 in one-score games.  They gave away two games because their QB was a Grade A nincompoop.  Ehlinger was the classic million dollar man and ten cent head guy.  He thinks he can make the throw, so he takes these spectacular risks when all the team needed to do is play safe, and they win.  Winning a close game is largely luck (though losing is not as much luck-based when you're stupid).  But they could have just as easily gone 4-1 in those games, with no change in team quality, but now they're a 9-win team.  

Myself, I'm more of a bottom line guy.  Parcells had a point when he said you are what your record says you are.  Mitigating factors be damned, the W/L is where I rest most of my cases.  Herman didn't fail per se, but he didn't deliver on the hype and the salary UT handed him, and appears to need to realize some things....perhaps most especially about himself.  

I was a big proponent of Herman, though it wasn't because he was a sure thing.  That was never the argument.  It's that he was the home run swing.  The thing about swinging for the fences is that you're more likely to strike out.  But I was all about the risk.  Take the damn plunge.  You're getting rid of a guy for a reason, don't play it safe.  Step up to the bar and order a man's drink.  And I'm not a huge fan of retreads that a lot of people consider "sure things."  If he doesn't work out, he doesn't work out, but that's the risk you take when you choose to get on the carousel, and imo UT still demonstrated how to approach that situation regardless of the final result.  I'd much rather gamble on an up-and-comer with some bullet points than the aforementioned retread.  

Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 03:43:10 PM
Texas went 1-4 in one-score games.  They gave away two games because their QB was a Grade A nincompoop.  Ehlinger was the classic million dollar man and ten cent head guy.
Ehlinger is a true freshman who is only one year removed from being able to run and throw at will on the HS football field.  In his mind he can do anything.

Good coaching should know this.  Don't call a play if you don't want the true freshman to force it.  So while Ehlinger may have blown us up a time or two, he should never have been in the position to do so.

It's hard for me to hang too much blame on a true freshman.  Especially one who's giving his all.  Whenever possible, he has to be protected from bad decisions.  Because he will make them.  In my opinion, coaching enabled Ehlinger's immature zeal to cost us a couple of games, when it really didn't need to.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 28, 2017, 04:12:12 PM
Ehlinger is a true freshman who is only one year removed from being able to run and throw at will on the HS football field.  In his mind he can do anything.

Good coaching should know this.  Don't call a play if you don't want the true freshman to force it.  So while Ehlinger may have blown us up a time or two, he should never have been in the position to do so.

It's hard for me to hang too much blame on a true freshman.  Especially one who's giving his all.  Whenever possible, he has to be protected from bad decisions.  Because he will make them.  In my opinion, coaching enabled Ehlinger's immature zeal to cost us a couple of games, when it really didn't need to.
Bingo.  I mean hell... in the simplest of terms if Herman and company don't call a pass play on 3rd and 2, he doesn't throw a pick which leads to tech's game winning score.  Don't put your QB in a position to fail if you don't need to.  Run ball, win game.  That's not on the QB, that's just coaching dumbassery.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: MikeDeTiger on November 28, 2017, 04:23:12 PM
Ehlinger is a true freshman who is only one year removed from being able to run and throw at will on the HS football field.  In his mind he can do anything.

Good coaching should know this.  Don't call a play if you don't want the true freshman to force it.  So while Ehlinger may have blown us up a time or two, he should never have been in the position to do so.

It's hard for me to hang too much blame on a true freshman.  Especially one who's giving his all.  Whenever possible, he has to be protected from bad decisions.  Because he will make them.  In my opinion, coaching enabled Ehlinger's immature zeal to cost us a couple of games, when it really didn't need to.
Yes, obviously, but you appear to take issue with a small piece of my post which agrees with you if you read the whole thing, and in context.  
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 28, 2017, 04:36:35 PM
Yes, obviously, but you appear to take issue with a small piece of my post which agrees with you if you read the whole thing, and in context.  
I wasn't taking issue.  I was piling on.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 29, 2017, 08:14:59 AM
Sure seems to be that way.

I just don't know about what we've done....  This is a $5 million dollar job for a reason.  We've got a 30-something blowing bubble gum, sporting a baseball bat, passing the ball on 3rd and 2 while leading in the waning minutes, and incapable of saying "my bad".

Herman is the type that better start winning fast, because he has no saving graces.
Don't forget that he was crying in his postgame press conference.
My bro-in-law turned that off as he didn't want me to have the satisfaction of seeing their head coach cry on TV because... well.... he sucked at his job.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 29, 2017, 10:09:08 AM
Don't forget that he was crying in his postgame press conference.
C'mon Shiner, he wasn't crying.  I agree he fully displayed how he's in over his head, and he really doesn't know how to handle being questioned - especially when he's the goat.  Herman has rapidly cycled from hero to zero and he can't handle the latter.

He's about 10 years too soon for this job.  So he'll either catch up while managing to win some games, or he'll be back in FCS fairly shortly.

To repeat myself, I'm not going to all out call Herman a bad hire - but without a seasoned athletic director in place, I will call it a stupid hire.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Shiner on November 29, 2017, 11:12:39 AM
Looked like crying to me... my horn bro-in-law agreed.  But I'll let the point go from here.

Regardless..... in over his head?  Clearly.  So was Strong.  I'm wondering how many potential candidates out there wouldn't be in over their head in that job. 
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 29, 2017, 11:18:15 AM
Regardless..... in over his head?  Clearly.  So was Strong.  I'm wondering how many potential candidates out there wouldn't be in over their head in that job.
As you accurately stated yesterday, Herman makes the right call on 3rd and 2 and we're singing his praises for producing 7 wins.  Despite some other coaching bumbles along the way... 7 wins would have cured all.

But one bumble too many.  6 wins.  We suck.  Herman sucks.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: CousinFreddie on November 29, 2017, 11:48:48 AM
... as we Sooner fans bask in the glow of a great HC transition and lick our chops for more tasty Bevo-Q at next year’s state fair ...
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: BrownCounty on November 29, 2017, 12:39:07 PM
To repeat myself, I'm not going to all out call Herman a bad hire - but without a seasoned athletic director in place, I will call it a stupid hire.
To further emphasize why I say this - Herman needs someone of authority (not the media) to ask what in the holy hell was that 3rd and 2 call?

Perrin won't ask it.  Fenves is thinking why didn't we kick a free throw and score another home run?

We need an AD.
Title: Re: Texas vs Texas Tech
Post by: Thumper on December 01, 2017, 10:29:51 AM
... as we Sooner fans bask in the glow of a great HC transition and lick our chops for more tasty Bevo-Q at next year’s state fair ...
It sure is nice, Cuz.  Nice for players and recruits to have that stability as well.