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Topic: open letter to Coach Butch Jones

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Drew4UTk

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open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« on: September 18, 2017, 11:52:18 AM »
... not that anyone who matters will read this. 

What you've done putting the program back together after the Fooley years is astounding.  Truly a great accomplishment.  The staff has been adjusted and the talent is there to compete at least in the SEC.  There is a vibe with the team and with those close to the program that is positive and determined.  that should be praised as well. 

the players are committed and have bought into the jive, that is apparent.  There are some things that need to be addressed that i'm certain your staff and you are more capable of identifying and executing than some fans ever could.  I wager we all appreciate that. 

there is an adjustment that needs to be made in your office, though, and it starts and finishes between your own ears.  it's a simple thing.  confidence.  

you guys practice hard, and play hard- but you play in fear of losing or screwing up.  that's unfortunate.  when you play with your dingle dangle in peril it is apparent what a force your team can be- that is offense, defense, and special teams, all... you can play with anyone.  when you play safe, you let people hang around and some steal those W's right out of your pocket.  

train them, sir, and let them play the game no matter who they are playing or what the ramifications of winning or losing mean... cut them loose on every down.  have the confidence and give it to your boys- don't foster a fear of what happens when you drop a ball or when a play get's busted- just let them play all out and see for themselves they'll be rewarded more than they'll be penalized.  this one adjustment, sir, will make everyone inside and outside the program a lot happier, and the wins will come. 

for the love of all that's holy, let them eat

847badgerfan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 10:58:39 AM »
We all matter...

Who is the next guy to come in and restore the shine to the once shiny helmet?

I don't think it's Butch Jones. I really don't.

(Can say the same about Nebraska, to be honest, with Riley. The shine is gone there too and he's not the answer.)
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Drew4UTk

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 12:14:13 PM »
should we call it "the curse of Fulmer" or "the Solich curse"?  When Nebraska cut Solich after having a bad season I thought it the epitome of dumb to fire him w/o someone in the wings... and then Miami did it... and then my own Vols did it... and none of them have been the same since- with Miami leading the better option of returning under Richt. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 01:30:28 PM »
It's just not as easy as Fan Expectations make us think it is.  When I ask the average fan what they want, they usually respond with something that sounds a lot like Ohio State, if not Alabama.  And I totally get the desire, but it's just not reasonable.  There's only one Saban and Urbz, and even the next tier down like Harbaugh aren't plentious.  

I remain torn on if LSU should have fired Miles.  Yes, I think he began to underperform reasonable program expectations.  But that's the thing....HE should have been doing better.  That's completely different than saying somebody else could've been doing better.  And the other thing to consider is, even if you are dead certain a guy like Miles needs to go, it's not just about him underperforming.  It's also a matter of who are you going to replace him with?  It's missed on most national fans, and LSU fans for sure....always was much more trendy to goof on Miles.....but honestly LSU experienced not just the best period of LSU history under him, but one of the best overall runs in cfb history.  It really was a good time for LSU football.  LSU lucked out twice in a row in Saban and then Miles.  The law of averages is not an active force, rather merely a description of general occurrences, but it is a description of real factors happening in real life.  And the law of averages says LSU's hire, for example, isn't going to get us what we want.  No matter who we got.  

And again, there's just not a lot of guys out there who can do what we want.  

Here's some articles you might find relevant and interesting on this topic.  Geared towards LSU, but relevant to all.  

The History of Replacing a Declining Coach

The coach you want isn't going anywhere

It's interesting you mention Nebraska/Solich while talking about Tennessee.  Those are literally the two programs I've thought about over and over during all this.  

This is not to say any of these schools should not have fired guys.  I'm just saying the idea that even a top level school can easily do appreciably better is false.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 01:37:27 PM »
I think the best bet is to shun the NFL model of coaching retreads like the plague.  For a variety of reasons, most notably $ and performance and fit, they just aren't going to work out like you hope, for the monetary commitment a school will wind up with.  

If you're going to get on the coaching carousel, I think the best bet is to shoot for a rising star....an up and comer who shows signs that they can hack it at a bigger program.  A good AD should be able to lock them in for less $ than a "proven commodity" would command, and if (when) they don't work out, you're less in the hole.  

Mind you, there's still a high probability you don't get the next Saban or Meyer, but I'm assuming that everyone knows by now that said coaching carousel is likely to be a death trap with some years of heartbreaks prior to finding The Guy.  

Tom Herman is a good example of the type of guy I think programs like LSU or Tennessee should go after when they're in the market.  I was glad we at least kicked the tires on him, even though he didn't want LSU and we couldn't have gotten into a bidding war with Texas.  At least he was on the AD's radar.  

Drew4UTk

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 02:47:00 PM »
the Saben's and Miles's are accounted for- well, Miles maybe not right now, but you get the idea.  they are a lot like drafting players in the NFL- you have something to work with and you gauge carefully- and once in five or six you strike gold.. once in those five or six you find a diamond.  

here is the thing about coaching that simply doesn't register with most fans:  these guys are in transition constantly too- they don't coach up to a certain level and then discover 'they've arrived' and stop... they are continuously tweaking this or going back to the drawing board on that- making adjustments to better their product/selves constantly.  it is when they've hit a rut of some sort and lose perspective on where the oil needs to be applied or to return attention to somewhere they've lost touch when the problems start surfacing.  

so it is with Butch- he has focused on 'rebuilding' and trying to get the community pumped- and he's done a good job- seriously.  he's always tried to better the product on the field, too- but.... the one caveat about him that kills me, and it's apparent in a big game when he's behind:  HE CAN DRIVE HIS TROOPS TO PERFORM- THOSE FELLA'S CAN PERFORM- but... still.. .they don't.  they let folks hang around that ought not be in the game, and he always gets scored on first in the big games and THEN reacts.  If he cut his troops lose without fear of performance, he'd find greater success is my opinion.. he hasn't grown in this regard that is apparent... if he gains confidence and cuts them lose- UT will be back on the map.  Unlike a lot of people, I don't hate on the man at all... I think it's literally that one adjustment... damn the expectations and the immobilizing fear of losing- just play the game.  

847badgerfan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 02:51:44 PM »
From MDT:

"even the next tier down like Harbaugh"


Is he on the next tier down? No conference titles. No division titles. Don't you at least have to win something in college to be on the next tier down?

Sure, he got to a Superbowl (not college).

So did John Fox and Lovie Smith and Bill Callahan and Ken Whisenhunt.

Anyone lining up for those guys? 
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847badgerfan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 02:55:45 PM »
should we call it "the curse of Fulmer" or "the Solich curse"?  When Nebraska cut Solich after having a bad season I thought it the epitome of dumb to fire him w/o someone in the wings... and then Miami did it... and then my own Vols did it... and none of them have been the same since- with Miami leading the better option of returning under Richt.
Solich got fired for winning 9 games in 2003, and only going 58-19 (0.753) overall. UNL is 0.639 since.
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MikeDeTiger

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2017, 03:29:50 PM »
From MDT:

"even the next tier down like Harbaugh"


Is he on the next tier down? No conference titles. No division titles. Don't you at least have to win something in college to be on the next tier down?

Sure, he got to a Superbowl (not college).

So did John Fox and Lovie Smith and Bill Callahan and Ken Whisenhunt.

Anyone lining up for those guys?
He may be a bad example, so insert your preferred coach.  It isn't material to my point.  
I was just thinking in terms of he immediately resurrected a crappy Michigan team that had been crappy for several years out of the doldrums, turned them into a top 10 quality team, recruits at a high level and can clearly coach well in other aspects.  Michigan was nothing more than Texas Tech for a while.  Now they're a team who can compete with anyone, even if they don't win.  Much like our situation with Alabama, Michigan may find it hard to win many titles of anything with Ohio State rolling in their division.  That doesn't mean he isn't one of the better coaches in cfb.
But again, if he doesn't float your boat, insert whomever.  

847badgerfan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 03:54:23 PM »
Guys like David Shaw, Chris Peterson and Gary Patterson come to mind. Even Dantonio, who had a bad year last season, is in that tier. Franklin?

BUT

Would those guys leave their spot for a job at Tennessee, LSU or Nebraska? That is the big question.


Dabo is probably in that first tier. Maybe Fisher?
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rolltidefan2

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 08:27:50 PM »
Only 4 active coaches have won NCs.  To be in a top tier, you have to start there.

To me, to be on the next tier you'd have to win your conference and maybe go to and/or win multiple BCS/Playoff site bowl games.

After that, you have guys like Harbaugh who bring the hype but not the results as of yet.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 10:53:35 PM »
When we talk about helmet schools, there's 7-8-9-10 of them or so, depending on your personal list.  There are never, at one time, 7-10 elite coaches at the top of their game.  There just aren't.  And coaches age out/retire.  3 years ago, there were Stoops, Beamer, Spurrier - they're gone.  Name guys.  Big-name coordinators have gotten recent looks - Strong, Muschamp and Smart come to mind.  Richt gets his walking papers.  Strong doesn't work out, but is a get for USF.  Muschamp doesn't work out, but USCe takes him in.  Meanwhile, guys with success at smaller joints like Herman, Taggert, and McElwain get chances, and we'll see.  

It's such a crap shoot.  That's why I never jump on an AD at the time of a new hire.  All you can do is wait and see.  For every great coach who does everything well, there's 10 that do almost everything well.  Zook and Muschamp could recruit, but during the game, forget it.  Or a guy can know the Xs and Os, but the talent level drops.  Or he gets the players, coaches them up, but screws an intern.  

Saban succeeded at smaller places (Toledo, MSU), same with Urbs (BG, Utah).  Personally, I'd be most comfortable (put the bad odds a little in my favor) by hiring a guy who has been the main man somewhere and done well.  I feel like ADs hire coordinators because they're the hot name and the fan base goes nuts.  That's a bad reason to hire someone, lol.

VT hires a guy, Fuente, who did a big turnaround at Memphis, then goes 10-4 for the Hokies.  Whether it works out or not, VT showed prudence.  Urban Meyer wasn't special when he was losing to Ball State in 2001.  He became special.  He used the better infrastructure at better jobs to lift himself up.  If you dropped 2001 Meyer into Gainesville or Columbus, he isn't going 12-1 or whatever.  

All you can do is try to make a 12% chance of hitting a home run into a 15% chance imo.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 10:56:09 PM »
* There's 2 guys who had great peak seasons at small schools, Doc Holliday at Marshall and George O'Leary at UCF, who dropped off a cliff 2 years later.  Lucky no one hired them...or maybe they knew not to hire them.  I don't know.

Just making note of that.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: open letter to Coach Butch Jones
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 07:19:18 AM »
UNL needs to be really careful on how it proceeds in the coming year or so.

Fan are wanting Scott Frost (and Chip Kelly... nope) and if they get a guy like Frost and he fails... Then what? You fire a legend and all that. Who wants the job now?
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