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The Power Five => Big Ten => Topic started by: ELA on January 01, 2019, 12:50:07 PM

Title: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 01, 2019, 12:50:07 PM
Kenny Willikes broke his leg playing in that meaningless game yesterday.  Wonder how this impacts whether he returns or not for his senior year.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 01, 2019, 01:08:30 PM
https://twitter.com/BTNMikeHall/status/1079894030853525505?s=19

With just the smallest amount of offense, probably 10-3.  Lost three games where we allowed 13, 9 and 7.  Blew 4th quarter leads in each.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2019, 02:21:01 PM
Anything gonna happen with Bollman?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 01, 2019, 02:53:41 PM
I'd love to see what a Matt Canada experiment might look like in East Lansing. Even if it's only for 2 years or whatever.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 01, 2019, 04:06:48 PM
Anything gonna happen with Bollman?
Rumors he is retiring
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 04, 2019, 11:44:50 PM
Joe Bachie announces hes returning.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2019, 10:28:29 PM
Willikes returning too
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on January 08, 2019, 11:40:26 PM
Willikes returning too
Huge for MSU.
IF Dantonio is willing to make drastic wholesale changes to that offensive staff, MSU could be really good in 2019.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 08, 2019, 11:42:20 PM
Huge for MSU.
IF Dantonio is willing to make drastic wholesale changes to that offensive staff, MSU could be really good in 2019.
He's not, so we won't be
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 03:17:57 PM
Surprise Dantonio PC today at 5:45.

Offensive staff changes?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 03:38:50 PM
Surprise Dantonio PC today at 5:45.

Offensive staff changes?
Ugh, might not even be that.  Now saying they are just tacking it on before the normal Izzo weekly press conference because media will already be assembled, so its convenient.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on January 10, 2019, 03:58:39 PM
Baffling to me how you can have an offense that bad and not make changes. 

MSU would’ve won 10 games minimum this season with just a meddling offense.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 04:14:58 PM
Sounds more and more like no changes.  He'll have a full stage mutiny on his hands.  Nobody went to the Rutgers game, I know at least 3 people who were waiting to see what he'd do before deciding on renewing season tickets.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on January 10, 2019, 04:29:48 PM
Sounds more and more like no changes.  He'll have a full stage mutiny on his hands.  Nobody went to the Rutgers game, I know at least 3 people who were waiting to see what he'd do before deciding on renewing season tickets.
He’s reminding me more and more of Lloyd Carr. Defensive minded, kinda grumpy and loyal to his friends to a fault. Still a heckuva coach but not as great as he could be or should be. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 04:45:44 PM
He's keeping all the same guys, and giving them all different positions, lol.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on January 10, 2019, 06:10:08 PM
He's keeping all the same guys, and giving them all different positions, lol.
Is it impolite to suggest that there exist no more apt time to use the "shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic" phrase?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on January 10, 2019, 06:39:09 PM
He's keeping all the same guys, and giving them all different positions, lol.
Wow.
Feel bad for MSU fans. It’s almost like Dantonio is trying to put himself on the hot seat.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 07:06:34 PM
Honestly, Salem has a very different philosophy, and per Dantonio has turned down a P5 OC offer each of the past 4 years to stay QB coach.  So I don't hate that shuffle, player development has been fine.  It's personnel usage and play calling...AND OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY.  So putting Bollman back there is inferiorating.  If they made all the other changes but Bollman retired and was replaced by an outside OL coach hire, I could live with it.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 07:12:05 PM
Is it impolite to suggest that there exist no more apt time to use the "shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic" phrase?
Lipstick on a pig fits too
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 10, 2019, 07:29:32 PM
At least Hartbarger got a 6th year, God knows well clearly need him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on January 11, 2019, 04:09:52 PM
I originally posted this in the Bowl Games SoC (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?topic=7104.540) but it quickly got lost in other things.  It really belongs here:
As great as Dantonio has been for MSU overall, the AD should tell him to clean out his office immediately or get rid of Bolman.

Bolman was completely incompetent at OC AND OL under Tressel at tOSU but it wasn't quite this bad because he had 5* talent at most positions. In East Lansing without that talent it is so bad that it is comical. 31 points in five games? 

https://amp.lansingstatejournal.com/amp/2454826002

https://amp.lansingstatejournal.com/amp/2452841002
Bolman's OL's at Ohio State were horribly coached but they had lots of 5* guys so they weren't THAT bad.  Now that he is at MSU where 5* recruits don't grow on trees we see an offense that is comically incompetent.  MSU's D was Championship caliber and I don't mean just B1G Championship, I mean that the Spartans had a NC Caliber D.  In spite of that they only managed to finish barely over .500 because their Offensive staff isn't good enough for a decent HS team.   

MSU scored 6 against Oregon in a 7-6 loss.  That was the fewest points scored on the Ducks all year.  Bowling Green (24), Portland State (14), SJSU (22), Stanford (31), Cal (24), Washington (27), WSU (34), Zona (44), UCLA (21), Utah (32), ASU (29), and OrSU (15) all scored more points against Oregon.  

MSU scored 6 against Nebraska in a 9-6 loss.  That was the fewest points scored on the Cornhuskers all year.  Colorado (33), Troy (24), Michigan (56), Purdue (42), Wisconsin (41), Northwestern (34), Minnesota (28), Bethuen-Cookman (9), Ohio State (36), Illinois (35), and Iowa (31) all scored more points against Nebraska.  

MSU scored 6 against Ohio State in a 26-6 loss.  Holding the Buckeyes to 26 was an accomplishment as only Purdue (20) did better but only scoring 6 was pathetic.  It ties Tulane as the second worst output against the Buckeyes, better only than Rutgers (3).  Ohio State's 11 other opponents all did better.  

MSU scored 13 against Arizona State in a 16-13 loss.  Only the University of Texas at San Antonio scored less (7) against ASU.  Fresno (31), SDSU (28), Washington (27), OrSU (24), Colorado (28), Stanford (20), USC (35), Utah (20), UCLA (28), Oregon (29), and Zona (40) all scored more points against the Sun Devils.  

The weak offensive outputs against Michigan and Northwestern are more excusable but still troubling.  

A number of posters have pointed out that even a middling offense would probably have gotten the Spartans to at least 10 wins.  I don't know that it would even take that.  A barely competent offense would easily have been enough for a team with MSU's D to win at least the ASU and Nebraska games.  That would have improved the Spartans' regular season record to 9-3.  

A middling offense would have been enough to win the ASU, UNL, and NU games and probably either the M (lost by 14) or tOSU (lost by 20) games as well.  That would have given the Spartans an 11-1/8-1.  Even without a CG appearance they'd have been a lock for a NY6 bowl.  All of this would only have required at most a middling offense.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 11, 2019, 05:30:26 PM
MSU was#2 S&P+ defense, and like #120 offense.

For comparison 2013 was #2 and I think #65.  So MSUs best team in a generation had an equivalent defense, and just a mediocre offense.  With a defense that good, you need JUST enough on offense.  Now in fairness the 2013 offense was as bad as 2012 until they went full to Cook in the fourth game, so the MSU in just October on was probably higher than that, but still.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 11, 2019, 05:32:29 PM
Reserve DE Mufi Hunt taking a grad transfer.  Not sure he ever played other than mop up duty, he may have had a couple knee injuries.  He's from Utah, so that's a long way from home to not play, so I don't blame him a bit.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 21, 2019, 01:34:37 PM
Willikes returning too
Best walk on in MSU history?  Passed Conklin?
https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1087397676164042752?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: PortlandSpartan on January 24, 2019, 10:03:59 PM
Just dropping in to say the coaching shuffle is crazy dumb. I’m so annoyed we still employ Warner and Bollman. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on March 13, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
Spring roster released yesterday with the always relief to find no meaningful surprises.

DE Justice Alexander is not listed, which hurts me, because he was the guy I had pegged as being the overachiever in his class a couple years back, but he hadn't gotten any meaningful playing time in three years on campus, so it only hurts in the sense that it cements me being wrong about him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 13, 2019, 10:24:59 AM
This is the worst thing I have ever seen

https://twitter.com/Butler_Benton/status/1117063560369143808?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on April 13, 2019, 10:28:14 AM
It takes a lot to mess up Green and White, but that does the job.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on April 13, 2019, 11:36:10 AM
It's like Oregon let MSU use one of their rejected uniforms that didn't make the cut.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 13, 2019, 12:14:58 PM
It's like Oregon let MSU use one of their rejected uniforms that didn't make the cut.
And they covered up Oregon with STATE in neon green tape.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on April 13, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
What CW & DF said
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2019, 03:52:39 PM
I hope they don't wear that crap to Camp Randall this year. Yuck. Who approves this garbage?!?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on April 13, 2019, 10:03:27 PM
It's not as bad as the worst Michigan uniform in history (bumblebee shoulders), but it's not good. The weird thing is that, even if they insisted on the wonky light green, it'd have been way better if (a) the pants were mostly dark green with a light green stripe and (2) the numbers were the same light green as the letters. Yes, white is actually a school color, but including it just makes a bad look somehow more disjointed.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 17, 2019, 12:56:08 PM
My analysis of B1G HFA relative to MSU from @ELA (https://www.cfb51.com/index.php?action=profile;u=55) 's countdown thread:

Michigan State:  The Spartans schedule is just brutal.  Per ELA's list there are only six B1G teams better than MSU but the Spartans have to play four of them on the road.  Road trips to Columbus, Ann Arbor, Madison, and Evanston make me feel like the ceiling for the Spartans this year is maybe 6-3 and even that would require multiple upsets. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on May 17, 2019, 12:57:04 PM
It is astounding to me that Bollman is employed in offensive coaching at this level.  He was absolutely horrible at Ohio State more than a decade ago, he hasn't gotten any better, and he somehow still has a job. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on May 23, 2019, 04:18:53 PM
MSU adds WMU transfer WR Jayden Reed, who had also visited Iowa.

As a freshman last year he was #8 in the MAC in receiving yards, #6 in all purpose yards, and #2 in punt return average (with a 93 yard TD return).

He was 1st Team AP Freshman All-American last year, has 3 years of eligibility.

Was a HS teammate of MSU's 2019 QB commit
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2019, 08:39:14 AM
Cam Chambers hasn't been the player on the field that he was expected to be as a 4/5* recruit who chose MSU over UM, OSU, PSU and Alabama in his final 5.  But he graduated in 3 years, and is starting law school in the fall.  If he's not captain material this year, I don't know who is.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 05, 2019, 02:39:09 PM
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user21248/IMG_20190805_125229.jpg)



Uhm, wtf is this? How do you approve this as an alternate uni? If you're the AD/coach at MSU and Nike brings you this, how do you not tell them to F off?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2019, 02:56:09 PM
Holy crap. Emphasis on the latter. Jeez.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 05, 2019, 03:19:14 PM
(https://mgoblog.com/sites/default/files/users/user21248/IMG_20190805_125229.jpg)



Uhm, wtf is this? How do you approve this as an alternate uni? If you're the AD/coach at MSU and Nike brings you this, how do you not tell them to F off?
Scroll up about 5 posts
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2019, 03:21:51 PM
high school recruits think the uni is great!
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2019, 03:53:02 PM
high school recruits think the uni is great!
17-year-old boys know nothing.
Once upon a time, everybody else knew that, and elders passed their hard-earned wisdom and knowledge down to the young.
Now it's the opposite.  Elders try to stay young by adopting the stupidity and attitude of the young knuckleheads.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on August 05, 2019, 03:56:48 PM
not this elder

I still understand that 17 year olds know nothing
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on August 05, 2019, 04:02:10 PM
Scroll up about 5 posts
I knew I wasn't nuts. Just a little memory challenged.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on August 05, 2019, 04:03:10 PM
That's because you're too old to matter.

And I am too, even more so.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2019, 10:34:31 AM
I don't even love these, but they are better.  I do like the white helmet with the green script State, to play off the basketball jerseys

https://twitter.com/dwyerse3/status/1159276405584277510

https://twitter.com/dwyerse3/status/1159437320849952768
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 08, 2019, 10:48:48 AM
Nike/Adidas/Under Armour have to be stopped.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2019, 11:22:20 AM
Nike/Adidas/Under Armour have to be stopped.
Amen!
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2019, 02:40:00 PM
17-year-old boys know nothing.
Once upon a time, everybody else knew that, and elders passed their hard-earned wisdom and knowledge down to the young.
Now it's the opposite.  Elders try to stay young by adopting the stupidity and attitude of the young knuckleheads.
Ya sound like a crochety old codger yelling "get off my lawn" - but you're not wrong
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2019, 03:02:03 PM
crochety old codgers cannot stop Nike
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 08, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
Sure they can Admn's can say no thanks to those abortions called uniforms
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on August 08, 2019, 04:47:20 PM
but, they can't say no thanks to the $$$

and the Coaches can't say no thanks to the recruits
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 05:23:27 PM
I am not convinced recruits authentically like these uggo jerseys. It could just be a lie we tell ourselves to explain why we let Nike/AD duos nip away at our sport's traditional aesthetics. 

I also don't think we can address that question by asking MSU players and recruits. They are like anyone associated with a football team. Recruiting is a political machine that feeds off of positivity-to-a-fault towards one's school. I have to imagine it'd be common to lie for your school about this kind of stuff. 

If you want to know how "recruits" genuinely feel about ugly jerseys, then you have to ask players and recruits associated with other conferences.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2019, 05:28:51 PM
I am not convinced recruits authentically like these uggo jerseys. I also don't think we can address that question by asking MSU players and recruits. They are part of a machine whose politics feeds off of positivity-to-a-fault towards one's school. If you want to know how "recruits" genuinely feel about ugly jerseys, then you have to ask players and recruits associated with other conferences.
I will say, when they unveiled these via Twitter back in April, a lot of the likes and retweets came from MSU recruiting targets.

I do think they by and large like them.

I personally wonder long term what this is doing for brand identity, or if anyone has even studied that?  Trading short term jersey sales, for long term brand awareness hits.

And who knows, MSU wore those terrible basketball jerseys against Maryland a few years ago, everyone hated them, and we never saw them again.  I've seen fans in every alternate jersey MSU has ever worn...except those.  So whether there is a recruiting bump or not, Nike doesn't care if the jersey doesn't sell.  My guess is that the reason the neon green jerseys never returned, wasn't because a bunch of 35+ year old fans didn't like them, but because they didn't sell.  If these don't sell, I'm guessing they go away too.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 06:07:45 PM
I edited my post while you were typing yours. I think it's easy to underestimate the extent to which players/commits/coaches will either lie for their school about a jersey being cool or the extent to which their passion for their school will make them like anything, even if it falls far outside their personal aesthetic, and even if they'd hate it elsewhere. 

If you want an unbiased "what recruits think" take on an MSU jersey ... ask kids at Louisville, University of New Mexico, and Washington. Don't ask kids at MSU, or anywhere within the conference for that matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2019, 06:15:40 PM
I am not convinced recruits authentically like these uggo jerseys. It could just be a lie we tell ourselves to explain why we let Nike/AD duos nip away at our sport's traditional aesthetics.
Nike has no personal interest in changing for the sake of changing.  Hell, it would cheaper for them to have fewer jerseys.  They do this to sell new jerseys, new shoes, new gloves, and if people didn't like them, they wouldn't sell, and Nike would stop.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 06:54:06 PM
Nike has no personal interest in changing for the sake of changing.  Hell, it would cheaper for them to have fewer jerseys.  They do this to sell new jerseys, new shoes, new gloves, and if people didn't like them, they wouldn't sell, and Nike would stop.
Then you and I have different ideas of the economic driving forces for a company like Nike. My guess goes something like this:

Nike's stuff is dirt cheap to make. Their entire factory system is built on modularity. Almost every jersey has the same cut. And generally the same fabric. They differ in the colors for each shape of fabric and how they are combined. This means there's perhaps never a scenario where an alternate jersey flops so badly in sales that Nike loses money or comes out in the negative in terms of opportunity costs and wasted factory space. With that kind of streamlined manufacturing it behooves Nike -- to perhaps no reasonable limit -- to put out a maximal number of products. This both grows Nike's base of patrons and, for the patrons Nike already has, grows the likelihood the average patron will purchase more than they would have otherwise. This is especially true for items like jerseys that, once purchased, can survive in a closet for a couple of decades. The guy with the plain home and the plain away jersey is unlikely to buy another jersey unless (a) the homes/aways substantially change or (b) the team and Nike put out alternates.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 07:00:47 PM
One could also point out -- as a secondary or tertiary driving force -- that most Nike athletic department contracts these days are written to include some ratio of cash to Nike equipment. That means the schools don't get their stuff for free. They either use part of their "stuff allotment" to order it, or they pay for it (because they don't have an allotment or have gone over). So this means that even in the theoretical world where literally zero fans buy a new alternate jersey, at least ~300 of them will be sold, if you assume that each Big Ten team will order its game jerseys in triplicate. Which is at least a guaranteed $30,000 in revenue.

That's extra revenue that can only come from new products and, again, comes with massive profit margins. And all of this is without insisting that at least 100-1000 fans are buying any jersey Nike puts out, no matter how ugly. Seriously. I think it's true: Literally no jersey can monetarily fail for Nike. Even the ones that you never see on the back of a fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 07:16:19 PM
Also, as I mentioned for the recruits, I think it would be safe for Nike to count on fans buying an alternate jersey for their school, even if they would have deemed it ugly if it belonged to another school. Just because team loyalty has a blinding effect.

None of this is to explain why the jerseys are so ugly. Alternate jerseys don't have any theoretical limits in terms of how attractive they might be. One of them *could* be beautiful. And I don't think anyone thinks Nike is pumping out bad looks on purpose. But bad looks do feel like an inevitable outcome for X% of new products when you combine "deviating from an old style that everyone loves" and "pushing the limits."
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on August 08, 2019, 07:27:32 PM
Also, as I mentioned for the recruits, I think it would be safe for Nike to count on fans buying an alternate jersey for their school, even if they would have deemed it ugly if it belonged to another school. Just because team loyalty has a blinding effect.
I dunno... Purdue wore some weird gray things recently. I find them atrocious. I wouldn't buy one. 

Purdue for a while had italicized numbers on their uniforms. I find that to be absolutely an affront to the basic proportions of humanity (we're a vertical species, not slanted). Why would they put the numbers on in a way that it always looked like players were leaning to their left??? No way would I have bought that uniform, and it wasn't even a one-off alternate. 

There have been some things Purdue does that I like. The chromed gold helmets are cool IMHO, as are the matte black helmets. So I'm not against the idea of alternates. But I'm not going to blindly love (or buy) whatever they make just because it's Purdue.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 07:43:12 PM
I dunno... Purdue wore some weird gray things recently. I find them atrocious. I wouldn't buy one.

Purdue for a while had italicized numbers on their uniforms. I find that to be absolutely an affront to the basic proportions of humanity (we're a vertical species, not slanted). Why would they put the numbers on in a way that it always looked like players were leaning to their left??? No way would I have bought that uniform, and it wasn't even a one-off alternate.

There have been some things Purdue does that I like. The chromed gold helmets are cool IMHO, as are the matte black helmets. So I'm not against the idea of alternates. But I'm not going to blindly love (or buy) whatever they make just because it's Purdue.
Just to be clear, that's one of my quaternary points. I'd rather keep the focus on the economic driving forces I mentioned**. But to play along: I'm talking about finding at least 100 fans in a massive fanbase to buy an ugly jersey on top of that alternate jersey's sales to the football team. The Nike business model looks efficient enough to call that a money win. And when the worst case scenario is some kind of win, a company has every incentive to reproduce variations on it as often as possible.

**(Nike's brutal efficiency, jersey modularity, profit margins, opportunity costs/factory space, and then the fact that these schools don't get their Nike gear for "free")
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on August 08, 2019, 08:21:45 PM
Also, as I mentioned for the recruits, I think it would be safe for Nike to count on fans buying an alternate jersey for their school, even if they would have deemed it ugly if it belonged to another school. Just because team loyalty has a blinding effect.

None of this is to explain why the jerseys are so ugly. Alternate jerseys don't have any theoretical limits in terms of how attractive they might be. One of them *could* be beautiful. And I don't think anyone thinks Nike is pumping out bad looks on purpose. But bad looks do feel like an inevitable outcome for X% of new products when you combine "deviating from an old style that everyone loves" and "pushing the limits."
I don't think that Nike's decision-makers consciously decide to make ugly uniforms.
But American culture--hell, Western culture--is esthetically challenged right now, so the default of any new/alternate uniforms is going to be in the direction of ugliness.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: msufan23 on August 08, 2019, 09:03:17 PM
I will say, when they unveiled these via Twitter back in April, a lot of the likes and retweets came from MSU recruiting targets.

I do think they by and large like them.

I personally wonder long term what this is doing for brand identity, or if anyone has even studied that?  Trading short term jersey sales, for long term brand awareness hits.

And who knows, MSU wore those terrible basketball jerseys against Maryland a few years ago, everyone hated them, and we never saw them again.  I've seen fans in every alternate jersey MSU has ever worn...except those.  So whether there is a recruiting bump or not, Nike doesn't care if the jersey doesn't sell.  My guess is that the reason the neon green jerseys never returned, wasn't because a bunch of 35+ year old fans didn't like them, but because they didn't sell.  If these don't sell, I'm guessing they go away too.

I mean I tried to buy that jersey and didnt have much luck finding it anywhere for a decent price. The full neon green looks nice IMO. its mixed with the regular green Im not a fan of.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2019, 09:39:08 PM
None of this is to explain why the jerseys are so ugly. Alternate jerseys don't have any theoretical limits in terms of how attractive they might be. One of them *could* be beautiful. And I don't think anyone thinks Nike is pumping out bad looks on purpose. But bad looks do feel like an inevitable outcome for X% of new products when you combine "deviating from an old style that everyone loves" and "pushing the limits."
This is more what I'm getting at.  They have an incentive to make jerseys that will sell.  If these weren't selling, they wouldn't be trending in this direction.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2019, 09:40:27 PM
I mean I tried to buy that jersey and didnt have much luck finding it anywhere for a decent price. The full neon green looks nice IMO. its mixed with the regular green Im not a fan of.
You tried to use money to purchase this?  For wearing?
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/gHdzd51eKwiNm8TiH1XrvgS3eKc=/1400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8634125/lime_green_msu.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 08, 2019, 10:54:01 PM
This is more what I'm getting at.  They have an incentive to make jerseys that will sell.  If these weren't selling, they wouldn't be trending in this direction.
I'm wishing I hadn't made that comment then because it's distracting from what I think is my stronger point: 

Nike profits when people buy stuff. And that is well facilitated by new stuff to open the wallets of *anyone* satisfied with their old stuff. And, yes: My main bet here is that you'd be shocked by how few purchases it takes for them to consider an alternate jersey "worth it" in terms of producing suffient revenue relative to time/dollars invested in design, manufacture, whatever.

Even then, what matters isn't the success of a single alternate but the average success. Because as we've noted, some of them sell well. And perhaps those are harder to predict for Nike than we expect. Again upping the incentive to push out as many as possible.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: msufan23 on August 08, 2019, 11:02:33 PM
Yup I think they look nice. It's just a lighter green. It's really pretty similar to the standard jersey. I also happen to own a pair of shoes that it would look really with.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: msufan23 on August 08, 2019, 11:03:43 PM
The shorts with the jersey I can't say I'm a fan of
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 15, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
I knew it was bad, hadn't fully realized it was this bad.

https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1162030149145104386

Led Arizona State 13-3 going into the 4th, lost 16-13
Led Northwestern 19-14 with 15 seconds left in the 3rd, lost 29-19
Tied with Michigan 7-7, with 2 minutes left in the 3rd, lost 21-7
Trailed Ohio State 9-6 going into the 4th, lost 26-6
Led Nebraska 6-0 midway through the 4th, lost 9-6
Led Oregon 6-0 going into the 4th, lost 7-6

We were even outscored in a couple wins, against CMU (granted against our backups) and Indiana
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 15, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
That's a rough way to go - maddening is the word
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 15, 2019, 02:21:27 PM
I knew it was bad, hadn't fully realized it was this bad.

https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1162030149145104386

Led Arizona State 13-3 going into the 4th, lost 16-13
Led Northwestern 19-14 with 15 seconds left in the 3rd, lost 29-19
Tied with Michigan 7-7, with 2 minutes left in the 3rd, lost 21-7
Trailed Ohio State 9-6 going into the 4th, lost 26-6
Led Nebraska 6-0 midway through the 4th, lost 9-6
Led Oregon 6-0 going into the 4th, lost 7-6

We were even outscored in a couple wins, against CMU (granted against our backups) and Indiana
that Michigan-MSU game never even felt like a game to me. One of those ones where game was won by 14, but it felt like it was won by 50. 

MSU couldn't get a 1st down all game long. The only points they got were off a Chris Evans fumble at Michigan's own 9 yard line, and honestly the fumble was kinda unforced. It was wet out and Evans just dropped it. MSU got 9 yards for the TD, and that was the only points they got all game long and they were never even remotely close to scoring a single point at any other point in that game.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 15, 2019, 03:17:30 PM
ELA may not dispute that. I vaguely recall him saying something similar.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 15, 2019, 05:45:47 PM
Yeah, I don't disagree.  Prior to that fumble I had texted family that this was going to be the biggest 10-3 whipping of all time.  MSU had a similar game against OSU in 2011.  I think we won 10-3?  But we recorded like 7 or 8 sacks, and you knew it was going to take a fluke play for OSU to score, but MSU couldn't pull away themselves.

Above I was just laying out how many times MSU was in the game late (whether deserved or not) and just nothing down the stretch.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2019, 11:39:07 AM
Hey, feel free to steal the neon green ones.  As in please come to our facilities and steal them, so we can't wear them.


https://twitter.com/SJSUSpartanFB/status/1159620594159112192

https://twitter.com/RBOkerstrom/status/1162383668159160325
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on August 16, 2019, 11:41:30 AM
Yeah, I don't disagree.  Prior to that fumble I had texted family that this was going to be the biggest 10-3 whipping of all time.  MSU had a similar game against OSU in 2011.  I think we won 10-3?  But we recorded like 7 or 8 sacks, and you knew it was going to take a fluke play for OSU to score, but MSU couldn't pull away themselves.

Above I was just laying out how many times MSU was in the game late (whether deserved or not) and just nothing down the stretch.
MSU was in so many games last year because that defense was just excellent. 

The MSU offense was just terrible. So hard to watch. Looked a lot like that 2017 Michigan offense which was just complete ass.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2019, 11:55:58 AM
MSU was in so many games last year because that defense was just excellent. 

The MSU offense was just terrible. So hard to watch. Looked a lot like that 2017 Michigan offense which was just complete ass.
They were MUCH worse than Michigan's 2017 offense.  They were #112 in S&P+, but #2 in defense.

2017 Michigan was #49 in offense and #5 in defense.

Since 2012 MSU's offense has only been ranked as high as #49 twice (2014 and 2015).  Even the 2013 team was #66.  They've gotten by with offense plenty bad, but #112 is just bottoming out.  I mean the other teams with offenses like that were Georgia State (#108) who went 2-10 in the Sun Belt, Tulsa (#109) who went 3-9 in the AAC and Ball State (#110) who went 4-8 in the MAC.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 16, 2019, 02:45:54 PM
Yeah, if MSU's offense had been as good as M's 2017 version, they might have won the Big Ten. Instead they had a version closer to 2008 Michigan (RR's first year).
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2019, 04:29:22 PM
Yeah, if MSU's offense had been as good as M's 2017 version, they might have won the Big Ten. Instead they had a version closer to 2008 Michigan (RR's first year).
If MSU had UM's 2017 offense, they would be #49/#2.  The 2013 13-1 Rose Bowl champion MSU team was #66/#3, so with even UMs 2017 offense, 2018 MSU would have been Dantonio's best team.

I will say those offensive numbers are better once you remove the first four games prior to it going fully to Cook.  The first quarter of the season was every bit as bad as 2018, but the remainder was probably closer to UM's #49 number.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 16, 2019, 05:05:26 PM
I think the Big Ten East looks to be down this year. Would be particularly ideal timing for Dantonio to approach or exceed his best team. What's your kneejerk guess for the offense's eventual rank?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 16, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
I think back up to the 60s or 70s.  Still no speed back, hell I'd say no RB at all, and I'm concerned about the OL.  I think the WRs should be good, and a healthy Lewerke makes the difference.  But that's just enough to go from horrible, to not great.  With road trips to Madison, Columbus, Ann Arbor and Evanston, a repeat of 7-5 looks likely.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 16, 2019, 06:46:09 PM
I keep going back and forth: "MSU will definitely want to run Lewerke a lot (to even out the ground game)" and then "But can they afford to take that chance?"
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on August 16, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
I knew it was bad, hadn't fully realized it was this bad.

https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1162030149145104386

Led Arizona State 13-3 going into the 4th, lost 16-13
Led Northwestern 19-14 with 15 seconds left in the 3rd, lost 29-19
Tied with Michigan 7-7, with 2 minutes left in the 3rd, lost 21-7
Trailed Ohio State 9-6 going into the 4th, lost 26-6
Led Nebraska 6-0 midway through the 4th, lost 9-6
Led Oregon 6-0 going into the 4th, lost 7-6

We were even outscored in a couple wins, against CMU (granted against our backups) and Indiana
MSU is fascinating because it just plays so very many close games every year. And they can swing very oddly. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on August 16, 2019, 07:13:14 PM
Yeah, you could argue that the 2016, 2017 and 2018 teams were all of the same "7-5 caliber plus high variance." In 2016, the dice (random swerves) underproduced a 3-9 season with a 7-5 caliber team. In 2017, the dice swung hard the opposite way to overproduce 9 wins. And in 2018, the team earned precisely the record you'd expect, 7-5.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 17, 2019, 10:28:56 AM
Bruce Feldman said on his podcast yesterday that he's heard rumors Dantonio is retiring after the year.

As I've said before, wouldn't mind dipping back into the former OSU DC/current UC HC well to replace him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 17, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
Fickell might be a decent pick,he already doesn't like M/Harbaugh :cool2:
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 19, 2019, 11:01:26 AM
We may have Wisconsin'd Wisconsin with Noah Harvey.  Went into Hartland, WI, picked up a 2/3* OLB with only MAC offers, and so far this camp he is getting all the buzz as the breakout player on defense, as a RS sophomore.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2019, 12:32:54 PM
ELA do you know what's up what's up with Jayden Reed?Reed caught 56 passes for 797 yards and eight touchdowns last season for Western Michigan. He was named a Freshman All-American by the Football Writers Association of America after his one season in Kalamazoo.Think MD can shoe horn him in?






Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 25, 2019, 12:45:12 PM
ELA do you know what's up what's up with Jayden Reed?Reed caught 56 passes for 797 yards and eight touchdowns last season for Western Michigan. He was named a Freshman All-American by the Football Writers Association of America after his one season in Kalamazoo.Think MD can shoe horn him in?







Sorely needed after our three most athletic offensive recruits from 2019 didn't make it to campus.  One went pro in baseball, one had his offer pulled due to academics then failed to qualify at Texas Tech, and the other flipped on signing day.

This for an offense already sorely lacking for playmakers.  There was speculation on whether top recruit Julian Barnett would play WR or CB, but those developments made WR the obvious choice.

Either way, it doesn't seem like Reed will be eligible this year anyway, but I'm not guessing how the NCAA handles any individual waiver request.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on August 25, 2019, 12:58:24 PM
Did he enter the portal too late?I stumbled across that info on the Red Cedar and those numbers kind of popped out
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 05, 2019, 08:11:19 PM
Jalen Nailor out for the year, Chambers also out for a while with an injury and "law school related activities," which you don't hear a lot.

Sounds like both OTs still out this week.

Starting to feel a lot like 2018.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on September 05, 2019, 08:53:25 PM
Man time to hire a few shamen,Clergy,Vodoo Doctors or medicine men.Throw a witch on the fire burn a Ouija Board - do something
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 05, 2019, 11:32:57 PM
Chambers also out for a while with an injury and "law school related activities," which you don't hear a lot.
Wow! This and the example from UW this summer (some fifth year player being a medical student [Neuville the TE?]) are the recent examples I'm aware of. Getting a free year of law school or medical school tuition is incredible. I think I mentioned when the medical school story came out of Madison that this comes way closer to matching these players' true market value. Good on Chambers to pull that off.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 06, 2019, 12:48:45 AM
Wow! This and the example from UW this summer (some fifth year player being a medical student [Neuville the TE?]) are the recent examples I'm aware of. Getting a free year of law school or medical school tuition is incredible. I think I mentioned when the medical school story came out of Madison that this comes way closer to matching these players' true market value. Good on Chambers to pull that off.
Particularly with early enrollment.  I assume they are on scholarship for that year?  Chambers is a 4th year senior, he just graduated in only 3.

MSU had a basketball player, maybe Adam Ballinger(?) who got his bachelors and MBA during his 5 year career.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 06, 2019, 01:02:09 AM
I have heard of more MBA football players than ones being paid for MD and JD tuition. Even then, I usually hear about that in the context of a single year. But I think  you were explaining that 'Ballinger' accomplished both the 4 year degree and the 3 year degree in 5 combined years. Without doubting you, that ... strains credulity. Accelerated grad school isn't something I'm familiar with. Wow again.

Also: Nothing against a business masters, but I have to think law school and medical school are significantly less forgiving in terms of accommodating a football schedule. That "not here for law school related activities" bit could be a recurring thing.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 06, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
I have heard of more MBA football players than ones being paid for MD and JD tuition. Even then, I usually hear about that in the context of a single year. But I think  you were explaining that 'Ballinger' accomplished both the 4 year degree and the 3 year degree in 5 combined years. Without doubting you, that ... strains credulity. Accelerated grad school isn't something I'm familiar with. Wow again.

Also: Nothing against a business masters, but I have to think law school and medical school are significantly less forgiving in terms of accommodating a football schedule. That "not here for law school related activities" bit could be a recurring thing.
Correct, he completed both during his 5 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 06, 2019, 09:51:15 AM
Ugh, neon green eyesores debut this weekend.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on September 06, 2019, 10:04:02 AM
Ugh, neon green eyesores debut this weekend.
Damn, I was hoping they'd make their debut during the ASU game thinking maybe the overwhelming shame and embarrassment collectively felt by the MSU players and fans would give us an edge.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 06, 2019, 11:18:06 AM

Damn, I was hoping they'd make their debut during the ASU game thinking maybe the overwhelming shame and embarrassment collectively felt by the MSU players and fans would give us an edge.
I wouldn't be shocked if that was the initial plan, and the fan/alumni/population at large backlash was so strong they decided to use them for a much less watched game.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 07, 2019, 11:10:30 PM
Well, I think they are learning the difference between a true running back, and a guy trying to play the position.  Collins and Williams just look miles ahead of Heyward and Jefferson.  I'd move Jefferson to TE and Heyward to LB.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 16, 2019, 08:27:05 PM
After last weekend’s disaster it’s time for the Michigan State to start moving on from Dantonio.

Burns two timeouts on leading up to a Fourth-and-13 to rush three against the true freshman ASU QB whose arm isn’t lethal.

After MSU loses the lead and Lewerke quickly marches the offense down, rather than going with Salem’s push to give the endzone a shot, Dantonio appears to veto his OC and send in an unprepared kicking unit. This all before the offense was at least prepared to control the clock with a spike.

Despite fully controlling and failing at both those fatal decisions, doubly wasted on timeouts no less, above Dantonio spends the aftermath on Saturday blaming officials then on Sunday passive-aggressively blames his own players by saying “execution can’t be put on the coaches.”

Dantonio doesn’t get it; he doesn't have it anymore. Time to start thinking about moving on from the Dantonio era. Or else let Michigan State get Fulmerized. And bench Lewerke for good measure.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 16, 2019, 09:01:29 PM
If you are MSU, I think you want to keep Dantonio if your priority is program health but you want Dantonio to retire ASAP if your priority is not blemishing the legacy of MSU's best ever coach. And when it comes to picking between a program or a guy, I think you pick the program; MSU needs to keep Dantonio. I'm not sure it'll be up to MSU, though. What are the odds Dantonio is just staying long enough to take the MSU wins record and earn his $4+ million bonus in January? That's not a sure thing, but those odds also aren't small.

As for why keeping Dantonio is the best thing for the MSU program, two reasons:




Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 16, 2019, 10:26:12 PM
MSU is fascinating because it just plays so very many close games every year. And they can swing very oddly.
MSU is now the worst case scenario for high end opponents. Their defense is so good that they can take down anybody but they have that ASU loss and likely others this year knock down their reputation such that a loss to them will be a bad loss and a win won't be all that impressive. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ftbobs on September 16, 2019, 10:52:26 PM
After last weekend’s disaster it’s time for the Michigan State to start moving on from Dantonio.

Burns two timeouts on leading up to a Fourth-and-13 to rush three against the true freshman ASU QB whose arm isn’t lethal.

After MSU loses the lead and Lewerke quickly marches the offense down, rather than going with Salem’s push to give the endzone a shot, Dantonio appears to veto his OC and send in an unprepared kicking unit. This all before the offense was at least prepared to control the clock with a spike.

Despite fully controlling and failing at both those fatal decisions, doubly wasted on timeouts no less, above Dantonio spends the aftermath on Saturday blaming officials then on Sunday passive-aggressively blames his own players by saying “execution can’t be put on the coaches.”

Dantonio doesn’t get it; he doesn't have it anymore. Time to start thinking about moving on from the Dantonio era. Or else let Michigan State get Fulmerized. And bench Lewerke for good measure.
a


Dantonio has made a few decisions that make you scratch your head recently.  The two the spring to mind are from the Michigan game a few years ago.  Down 20 late he kicks a field goal.  When asked why later he said he wanted to cut it to 2 scores.  Michigan State then scored with 1 second left to cut the lead to 7 and Dantonio goes for 2, for no apparent reason.  He seemed to believe that you couldn't recover an onside kick with no time running off and just made a terrible decision.  Both decisions seemed to be just to make the score look better in a losing effort.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 16, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
Dantonio has made a few decisions that make you scratch your head recently.  The two the spring to mind are from the Michigan game a few years ago.  Down 20 late he kicks a field goal.  When asked why later he said he wanted to cut it to 2 scores.  Michigan State then scored with 1 second left to cut the lead to 7 and Dantonio goes for 2, for no apparent reason.  He seemed to believe that you couldn't recover an onside kick with no time running off and just made a terrible decision.  Both decisions seemed to be just to make the score look better in a losing effort.
The second one, was unbelievably stupid.  I mean it probably didn't matter, so that might be overselling it, but it was totally nonsensical.

The first one, UM fans seem to bring up all the time, but the only reason MSU had a remote chance was because of that decision.  The problem was that he missed it.  It's not like it was a 4th and 2, it was 4th and goal from like the 20.  That's an almost impossible conversion, but a usually makable FG.  That would have cut it to 30-13.  MSU scored on their next possession to make it 30-17, but instead, with a made FG, it's 30-20.  The difference between 30-17 and 30-20 is that when MSU subsequently had a 4th down from the 12, they went for it, and UM stopped them.  At 30-20, you could kick another FG to make it 30-23.  But if he was just playing to keep the score close, he would have kicked it again there, but he didn't.  MSU scored another TD to make it 30-23, setting up the weird 2 point conversion, but if it was already 30-23, that would have been a tying TD.  Obviously Michigan plays defense differently, so I'm not saying it goes to OT if MSU makes that FG, but it's a very different game if they do.  It was the right decision, when it's 4th and goal from the 20 and there are still like 12 minutes left.  If his goal was just to "lose by less" then he would have repeated the decision 2 possessions later, but he didn't.

Dantonio deserves full blame for the cavalcade of errors Saturday, and several program decisions he's made in previous seasons.  But, they might be the best defense in the nation two years in a row.  Narduzzi isn't working at Pitt, Barnett is about to get fired at FSU, maybe Tressell takes over, but my bet is it's all Dantonio, and we'll figure that out when he's gone.

He might retire after this year.  He'll have the record, and MSU loses a TON this offseason.  Next year could be rough.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2019, 12:03:17 PM
gotta allow the man to retire on his own terms
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2019, 12:26:14 PM
Narduzzi isn't working at Pitt, Barnett is about to get fired at FSU, maybe Tressell takes over, but my bet is it's all Dantonio, and we'll figure that out when he's gone.

He might retire after this year.  He'll have the record, and MSU loses a TON this offseason.  Next year could be rough.
I agree with this. Given the recruiting, and exacerbating that if Dantonio leaves, the rebuild may take a few years. The candidate list will be fascinating, though. With M. Tressel, the intrigue extends further than just whether he can prove it wasn't Dantonio's defense. I mean we seem to assume he would clear house with the offensive staff, but I'm not sure how compatible that is with the "church buddies" hypothesis.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 17, 2019, 12:34:45 PM
gotta allow the man to retire on his own terms
I said a couple years ago, his entire career was starting to look very Frank Beamer to me, minus every having a Michael Vick.  I don't think he ever gets fired, he just continues to have 7-5ish seasons, maybe a 10-3 one when things break his way, 5-7 when they don't.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2019, 12:37:18 PM
Obviously, some gentle suggestions and increased pressure from fans and media may cause him to see the way out

he seems to be a reasonable man
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on September 17, 2019, 12:37:36 PM
gotta allow the man to retire on his own terms
I agree. The dude brought MSU back from the dead and put them on the map. He deserves to write his own ending so long as he wants as long as MSU isn't getting 3-9 or 4-8 every year or something like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on September 17, 2019, 02:34:08 PM
I said a couple years ago, his entire career was starting to look very Frank Beamer to me, minus every having a Michael Vick.  I don't think he ever gets fired, he just continues to have 7-5ish seasons, maybe a 10-3 one when things break his way, 5-7 when they don't.
It’s interesting because on the one hand, that doesn’t feel great considering where you were.

But in the post Duffy era, that’s equal to or better than all of MSU’s history, maybe give or take Perles’ best four-year run.

The real question is, what would this team want to be after? Hope it can continue this identity. Use it as a chance for change? It’ll be a hard one to replicate.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 17, 2019, 02:56:50 PM
With that defense- I would not count MSU out of ANY game remaining on their schedule.    
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 17, 2019, 04:08:10 PM
With that defense- I would not count MSU out of ANY game remaining on their schedule.   
It cuts both ways, with that offense, I would not count MSU's oppoent out of ANY game remaining on their schedule.  

I've been saying this for a while.  Their defense is so good that they have a legit shot against anybody and their offense is so bad that anybody has a legit shot against them.  From what I've seen so far, I would pick Ohio State to beat them something like 27-10.  The problem is that if one of tOSU's TD's turns into a pick-6 for MSU instead that suddenly becomes a 20-17 game deep in the fourth quarter and anything can happen.  Conversely, I would pick MSU to beat Rutgers by a similar score or say 20-3.  Same thing there though, if the Scarlet Knights grab a pick-6 to replace one of my projected MSU TD's, all of a sudden that game is 13-10 deep in the fourth quarter.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 17, 2019, 04:16:47 PM
True.   But I would not assume that we’re not going to see improvement, possibly meaningful improvement, in their offense. I expect to see a lot of improvement in a number of different aspects of different teams around the conference    
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: medinabuckeye1 on September 17, 2019, 04:22:34 PM
True.  But I would not assume that we’re not going to see improvement, possibly meaningful improvement, in their offense. I expect to see a lot of improvement in a number of different aspects of different teams around the conference   
Fair point and I have acknowledged that their offense appears to be better this year than it was last year.  That said, that is a REALLY low bar.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2019, 05:19:07 PM
True.  But I would not assume that we’re not going to see improvement, possibly meaningful improvement, in their offense. I expect to see a lot of improvement in a number of different aspects of different teams around the conference   
This is easily true. In fact, we've already seen consistent improvement this year. I know there's a lot of hand-wringing about the loss, but the ASU was a far better game for the offense than the Tulsa game, which approximated the worst case scenario.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 17, 2019, 08:37:59 PM
If you are MSU, I think you want to keep Dantonio if your priority is program health but you want Dantonio to retire ASAP if your priority is not blemishing the legacy of MSU's best ever coach. And when it comes to picking between a program or a guy, I think you pick the program; MSU needs to keep Dantonio. I'm not sure it'll be up to MSU, though. What are the odds Dantonio is just staying long enough to take the MSU wins record and earn his $4+ million bonus in January? That's not a sure thing, but those odds also aren't small.


Long term, Michigan State DOES NOT need to keep Dantonio. My argument is NOT to fire Dantonio but rather begin laying the groundwork and taking the slow steps to be fully shed of Dantonio within about three years or else face a lost decade like Tennessee with Fulmer and Florida State with Bowden.

The uphill battle faces two internal realities:

- Dantonio’s current contract runs through 2023, which is fine as long as the AD has the guts to (deservedly) refuse anymore contract extensions which is the single biggest leverage the AD has.

- The AD doesn’t have the guts to do this because in hiring Beekman, MSU hired a nice guy and a company man who won’t rock the boat or challenge the establishment.

For all the success with the defense, once over half the starters are gone next year (7 Seniors on D + QB and half the OL) then where is MSU at? On paper, one of the worst teams in the B10 next year.

What I can’t predict is whether Dantonio is stubborn enough to charge on despite the high risk of another 3-9 season, or whether Dantonio is introspective enough to do all of East Lansing the favor of recognizing his expired shelf life come season’s end.

I don’t blame Dantonio for taking 2019 head on given the stacked defense, senior QB, and schedule. But now losing to an Arizona State that scared nobody, everything is on life support. For the sake of moving on from Dantonio, I think Harbaugh taking the Spartans to the woodshed would make MSU’s circumstances a lot easier to address.


Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on September 17, 2019, 08:52:19 PM
And what if Dantonio takes Harbaugh to the woodshed?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2019, 09:21:57 PM
And what if Dantonio takes Harbaugh to the woodshed?
It's by far the biggest stakes game for Harbaugh this year. And would take some heat of Dantonio.

Still, winning that wouldn't change MSU's program. Granted, beating Michigan this year (by any margin) would absolutely rejuvenate Dantonio's legacy. And it would decimate the Michigan fanbase. At the program level, though, MSU is averaging the same quality of team for the last three seasons, 7-5 quality. And that's in the backdrop of recruiting getting worse fast. Winning the Michigan game one time can't revolutionize that.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2019, 09:35:06 PM

Long term, Michigan State DOES NOT need to keep Dantonio.
I think there's a conflict here. That the offensive staff needs to change, and Dantonio will never do that. But the defense is this precious thing, perhaps #1 in the country and vastly overachieving relative to recruiting rankings, and this is not something the next coach is likely to maintain. Ideally, you'd keep Dantonio but force him into conditions -- change the offensive staff, up the recruiting game, and build a 2-3 year strategy for handing over the program. That would be a sincerely positive way forward. But it seems impossible; counter to Dantonio, and the new (interim?) AD may not be up to the challenge. And if Dantonio isn't strong-armed to change, the alternatives seem like more of the 7-5 business (with Dantonio, as is) or starting over at a lower level without him. These were my points when saying the AD needs Dantonio right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on September 17, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
no AD needs any coach long term or shouldn't, coaches come and go

7-5 with a win over Michigan is a much different world than 6-6 with a loss to Michigan
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on September 18, 2019, 09:55:22 AM

Long term, Michigan State DOES NOT need to keep Dantonio. My argument is NOT to fire Dantonio but rather begin laying the groundwork and taking the slow steps to be fully shed of Dantonio within about three years or else face a lost decade like Tennessee with Fulmer and Florida State with Bowden.

The uphill battle faces two internal realities:

- Dantonio’s current contract runs through 2023, which is fine as long as the AD has the guts to (deservedly) refuse anymore contract extensions which is the single biggest leverage the AD has.

- The AD doesn’t have the guts to do this because in hiring Beekman, MSU hired a nice guy and a company man who won’t rock the boat or challenge the establishment.

For all the success with the defense, once over half the starters are gone next year (7 Seniors on D + QB and half the OL) then where is MSU at? On paper, one of the worst teams in the B10 next year.

What I can’t predict is whether Dantonio is stubborn enough to charge on despite the high risk of another 3-9 season, or whether Dantonio is introspective enough to do all of East Lansing the favor of recognizing his expired shelf life come season’s end.

I don’t blame Dantonio for taking 2019 head on given the stacked defense, senior QB, and schedule. But now losing to an Arizona State that scared nobody, everything is on life support. For the sake of moving on from Dantonio, I think Harbaugh taking the Spartans to the woodshed would make MSU’s circumstances a lot easier to address.



Forgive me if I'm missing something, but I don't totally get the level of aggression being applied to sending this coach on his way with some level of haste. 

I mean, if he wins seven games, he's got MSU going at its average the past 40 years. That's not ideal, but it won't kill you. The idea he's simply expired seems to a degree conjecture, the same way Iowa and Wisconsin fans in the late 2000s would endlessly bicker about how their team was rising or the other team wasn't. 

There's also the odd implication that Dantonio's departure solves something. If he leaves, and you hand "one of the worst teams in the B10" with almost no incoming recruiting class to a new coach, this is some kind of improvement? Seems spurious. 

In the end, the focus is often on being unhappy NOW, and focusing on getting one guy out rather than the actual question of getting a guy in. 

You mention Fulmer and Bowden. Bowden had a dip off the run of top-5 finishes, which was gonna happen. It didn't get really troubling until 2005, when they went 8, 7, 7, 9, 7 wins, and it didn't cost much because they turned around to win 78 games in the seven years after. Fulmer's lost decade was kinda just two losing seasons sandwiched around 19 wins in two years. The bottom fell out after, after one weird coaching tenure, one terrible hire, the Butch Jones experience, which gets its own post, and now an amoral creep who doesn't know what asparagus is. 

Getting rid of Dantonio only helps if you don't mess up what's next. There they have three paths.
1. Stay in the program - Keep continuity, hire Tressell or someone. It might maintain the good things, maybe helps the bad.
2. Try to hold onto the identity - Seems the least likely because if you want defense-first, more developer than recruiter, might as well just stay in house.
3. Break the mold, go opposite, get an offensive guy - It's the thing that will make for the most hopeful first two years and also drops the thing that made MSU successful. 

If they think they have that next guy, make a move. But I wouldn't buy into the expired coach unless there's actual rumblings of him slacking off or losing fire. 

(The interesting thing would be that MSU's offense is so bad, one could maybe go some different directions with it. I know they want ball control, could they fulfill my option dreams? Maybe Matt Canada if someone could stand him? The issue is there are very few pro-style OCs coming up. They just don't make many of them. Of course, they have a pro-style OC who was successful enough at MSU to get a better job, but who knows if that actually works out?)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2019, 10:15:49 AM
Good post, BAB. Re: signs/rumors of slacking off, does shuffling the chairs on O count? I'd say it doesn't mean that for sure, but it comes close (is at least consistent with the idea of prioritizing coaching with his friends until he retires, which may happen when he earns the contract bonus in mid-January. Arguably not a fiery try-hard finish).
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on September 18, 2019, 10:31:42 AM

Getting rid of Dantonio only helps if you don't mess up what's next. There they have three paths.
1. Stay in the program - Keep continuity, hire Tressell or someone. It might maintain the good things, maybe helps the bad.
2. Try to hold onto the identity - Seems the least likely because if you want defense-first, more developer than recruiter, might as well just stay in house.
3. Break the mold, go opposite, get an offensive guy - It's the thing that will make for the most hopeful first two years and also drops the thing that made MSU successful.
Some good points,what's frosted Sparty fans are the last 3 season nothing resembling improvement or insight has been achieved from the Offensive side of the ball.Can't say as I blame them,from a conference perspective their Offense was 13th in 2018,10th in 2017,12th in 2016.It's time to change some coaches so MD simply says - you change with him,you change with him,you change with him.......It's like Einstein said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on September 18, 2019, 11:55:32 AM
(The interesting thing would be that MSU's offense is so bad, one could maybe go some different directions with it. I know they want ball control, could they fulfill my option dreams? Maybe Matt Canada if someone could stand him? The issue is there are very few pro-style OCs coming up. They just don't make many of them. Of course, they have a pro-style OC who was successful enough at MSU to get a better job, but who knows if that actually works out?)
Depending on how the season plays out, I think Joe Rudolph will be looked at. Probably not by an MSU-level school though. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 18, 2019, 08:25:16 PM
And what if Dantonio takes Harbaugh to the woodshed?


Michigan State beating Michigan again makes the Dantonio wane more polarizing between the types of Spartans fans with different expectations. On one hand there’s a more casual base that’s perfectly content with Dantonio achieving 7-5 bowl seasons especially if he’s beating Michigan, which he is: 2-2 so far Vs Harbaugh. On the other hand there’s the more intense fans who by taking the approach of an analyst (often on message boards, or, if you’re Valenti on 97.1 The Ticket, ranting to no end) that demands accountability for why Dantonio’s 65-16 success from 2010-2015 has since flat-lined into a 22-19 stretch.

Both groups will revel in another win over the Wolverines, which I have no doubt can easily happen this year given the high motivation MSU brings to the Paul Bunyan rivalry every year. Where both segments of fans will differ is that the former “casuals” will see no reason to question anything else that went wrong this season in light of beating Michigan. The more intense “analyzers” will take the win but only within the context of enjoying a bright spot as consolation for being knocked out of the Rose Bowl race by Halloween.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 19, 2019, 06:45:18 PM


Dantonio deserves full blame for the cavalcade of errors Saturday, and several program decisions he's made in previous seasons.  But, they might be the best defense in the nation two years in a row.  Narduzzi isn't working at Pitt, Barnett is about to get fired at FSU, maybe Tressell takes over, but my bet is it's all Dantonio, and we'll figure that out when he's gone.

He might retire after this year.  He'll have the record, and MSU loses a TON this offseason.  Next year could be rough.

I'm not the only one wondering whether Narduzzi isn’t worth considering for MSU’s post-Dantonio future. From Matt Charboneau of the Detroit News this week: (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2019/09/18/michigan-state-mailbag-what-mark-dantonios-future-spartans/2363010001/):

Q: Who is on your short list to replace Dantonio after this season?

A: Let’s just jump in and start the speculation, eh? OK, I’ll bite, but only kinda. I’m sure Dantonio will push to be allowed to essentially name his successor, and if he does, I’d be surprised if it isn’t Mike Tressel. Of course, he doesn’t have head-coaching experience, so that will be a knock. Outside of that, I think Pat Narduzzi still has some juice, even with some struggles at Pittsburgh. Cincinnati’s Luke Fickell likely would be on that list and how about Eastern Michigan’s Chris Creighton? No way a bigger program’s not coming for him.

Narduzzi would be a “safe hire” (much like Pelini at Nebraska was at the time) and he would appeal to the “casuals” who would get what they’d come to expect with Dantonio – defense, defense, defense; he’s learned the ropes as a head coach, and as for first few seasons going 28-24, nobody’s time at Pittsburgh goes great. But people do leave Pitt to do better jobs elsewhere – Chryst’s 19-19 record has translated to 42-12 in four seasons in Madison.

On the other hand I can completely agree with the arguments against Narduzzi, namely the predictable offense, to which I’d say, maybe by then you’ll have an AD that can somewhat convince Narduzzi to let a better minded OC to centralize control of game-planning and offensive style.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2019, 08:05:06 PM
When the time comes, it'll be interesting to see the rumored candidates list. We all expect to see Tressel, Fickell and Narduzzi. And we probably expect there to be other token names ranked below them. We know nothing about that next layer, so that will be interesting. As for whether the big three stay the big three or drop down, I'm not exactly sure what it can confirm to us about the new AD, but it might hint towards his risk taking, his maverick quotient, and how much Dantonio can pull his strings. Then again, that has to be qualified with "might" because these three are obvious picks for a reason.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 19, 2019, 08:07:31 PM
I've been saying I want Fickell.  The EMU coach is really interesting.  Those mid major coaches tend to get big jobs after one excellent year, and frequently they bust because it was a confluence of factors coming together for one great year.  EMU was in the running for worst FBS program, and he looks primed to have them in their third bowl in four years.  I'm more impressed with the ability to build a steady program in a wasteland, than having one great year and cashing in like a Hazell or Gill.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on September 25, 2019, 07:34:04 PM
(Long Post)

Last Saturday I skipped out watching Michigan State’s rebound win to instead watch the showdown in Madison (yucky!) and Florida Vs Tennessee. So in making a point to watch a play by play of NW Vs MSU, I offer the following, mostly about the offense:

- This kind of conference road win Vs a typically determined 7 or 8 win, familiar opponent is exactly the kind of encouraging rebound performance needed after the stubbornly coached and offensively frustrating showing Vs Arizona State the week before.

- For one, you can definitely tell the coaches regrouped and applied major adjustments to game plan. For one, the run blocking was MUCH better than against ASU’s front seven. Run plays that only went for 1 yard Vs ASU instead extended for 4 – 6 yards because the OL were much better at getting downfield to keep running lanes open. This is what carried the offense and kept their defense resting on the sideline.

- The bad news is how limited Lewerke will be for the rest of his Spartan career. Even his medium range passes require receivers to adjust mid-route and finish catches with dives or slowing their stride. Lewerke's arm doesn’t create for a deep threat which is doubly negative because none of his skill players have the game breaking ability to balance out Lewerke’s ceiling.

- The good news is Lewerke doesn’t make fatal mistakes. You can tell the coaches have grilled it into his mind to NOT take downfield chances and instead look for Backs in the shallow, throw it away, or take the sack. Lewerke is stability making up for lack of any fireworks. His best play was the TD pass to close out the second half 14-3; Lewerke worked through progressions on his right before finding one-on-one coverage deep-left. Otherwise Lewerke relied on his Backs when his first option closed.

- As for the defense, the gang-tackling mentality was evident from the get-go. As a veteran group they play well together and have the mental toughness and execution to keep a likely underdog MSU in games Vs Wisconsin, Ohio State, Penn State, and Michigan. I think the defense is good enough to win MSU 2 of those 4 contests.

- All in all the whole set up reminds me of the defensively lead Chicago Bears where the coaches strategize maxing out team strengths while intensively working around innate limitations, namely at QB, where ball protection is especially emphasized in light of almost no playmaking ability, either by the arm of the QB or the skill of the receivers. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 25, 2019, 07:42:36 PM
Reserve LB Brandon Randle is transferring.  He was useful in spots last year as a 3rd down pass rush specialist, but was sort of a tweener in MSUs system.  The hope I thin kwas that he could grow into a Marcus Rush type, but it wasn't happening.  I think he's only played in 2 of 4 games this year, with 5 tackles.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 25, 2019, 09:10:47 PM
Reserve LB Brandon Randle is transferring.  He was useful in spots last year as a 3rd down pass rush specialist, but was sort of a tweener in MSUs system.  The hope I thin kwas that he could grow into a Marcus Rush type, but it wasn't happening.  I think he's only played in 2 of 4 games this year, with 5 tackles.
Graduating in 3.5 years, so it would be a grad transfer.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2019, 02:18:59 PM
Connor Heyward who has fallen from starter to #4 on the depth chart, sat out last week to evaluate his transfer options, while still being able to redshirt this year.

I wish him the best, but he needs to go.  He is a round peg in a square hole.  Should have never been converted to RB, it was out of need, and he has absolutely zero vision and normal RB ability.  But for some reason the coaches can't help themselves other than to send him in in short yardage situations, and he gets stuffed time and time again.  He might be the best pass catcher of the backs, but as a runner, he's got nothing.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2019, 04:32:15 PM
Connor Heyward who has fallen from starter to #4 on the depth chart, sat out last week to evaluate his transfer options, while still being able to redshirt this year.

I wish him the best, but he needs to go.  He is a round peg in a square hole.  Should have never been converted to RB, it was out of need, and he has absolutely zero vision and normal RB ability.  But for some reason the coaches can't help themselves other than to send him in in short yardage situations, and he gets stuffed time and time again.  He might be the best pass catcher of the backs, but as a runner, he's got nothing.
Officially in the transfer portal
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on September 30, 2019, 07:17:31 PM
ELA thought I saw you post MSU has 4 injured O-Lineman or sumsuch.Yet I've read Lewerke has only been sacked 4X.You pulling a Lou Holtz here,didn't have you figured as a sandbagger  :sign0103:
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 30, 2019, 07:22:17 PM
They have held up surprisingly well in pass-blocking, but they've really. and Tulsa and to some extent Arizona State, didn't bring much pressure and dared lewerke to fit it into Windows dropping 8, and he is not a very accurate passer
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 01, 2019, 12:35:59 AM
They have held up surprisingly well in pass-blocking, but they've really. and Tulsa and to some extent Arizona State, didn't bring much pressure and dared lewerke to fit it into Windows dropping 8, and he is not a very accurate passer
Based on Football Outsidera, they are in the 70s or 80s in their run blocking metrics, but top 25 in all of their pass blocking ones.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 08, 2019, 03:05:04 PM
Officially in the transfer portal
Joined by La'Darius Jefferson.  So the RBs who were terrible last year as the 1a and 1b did not appreciate being passed by a pair of freshmen.

Leaves MSU very, very, thin at RB
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 16, 2019, 12:52:09 PM
One of the college football podcasts I listened to took a question of whether LSU needed to promote Joe Brady to OC to prevent a school like MSU coming in and hiring him away. To which the response was, yes, but they wouldn't worry about MSU being the school to make a good hire like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 16, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
Yeesh.

Just stay the hell out of Madison.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 18, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
With the transfer of WR Cam Chambers because the whole law school/D1 football thing wasn't working, can anyone name a bigger disaster of a class than the MSU 2016 class ever?

It was ranked #17 overall, #3 in the Big Ten, and supposedly the culmination of the 3 year run of top 5 finishes from 2013-15.  The 2016 class is *probably* the most important class to the 2019 roster, comprising the true seniors and redshirt juniors.

Instead (by recruiting rank order), you have the following, with the bolded being the only ones still on the team

**** DE Josh King (#94) - kicked off team
**** DE Auston Robinson (#103) - kicked off team
**** WR Donnie Corley (#108) - kicked off team
**** WR Justin Layne (#179) - left early for NFL Draft
**** DT Naquan Jones (#224)
**** WR Trishton Jackson (#229) - transferred
**** WR Cam Chambers (#242) - transferred
**** S Demetric Vance (#243) - kicked off team
**** QB Messiah deWeaver (#245) - transferred
*** S Kenney Lyke (#350) - transferred
*** OLB Brandon Randle (#361) - transferred
*** OT Thyio Lukusa (#369) - transferred
*** DT Mike Panasiuk (#377)
*** TE Noah Davis (#599)
*** CB Austin Andrews (#715) - kicked off team
*** OT Luke Campbell (#743)
*** ILB Joe Bachie
*** OT A.J. Arcuri
*** OC Matt Allen
*** K Matt Coghlin

So out of the class that was supposed to end the problem of just having too much less talent than schools like Bama to ever compete for a national title, 10 of the top 11 rated commits didn't make it, and only 1 was because he left early for the draft.  Instead it wound up being the class that hampered MSU by giving us a dearth of 4th year players this year, and forcing us to pull too many redshirts in 2017.  If you re-rank the class with all of the removals/transferred removed (keeping the guy who left early for the draft), MSU falls from #17 overall/#3 Big Ten to #80 overall/#12 Big Ten.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2019, 01:06:28 PM
Gotta recruit good character as much as good talent.

Why were all those guys kicked off the team? What did they all do?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 18, 2019, 01:29:34 PM
Gotta recruit good character as much as good talent.

Why were all those guys kicked off the team? What did they all do?
Robertson was arrested for rape, I think he's been put away.

Corley, King and Vance were arrested for rape, but had a video showing consent, and so the charge was lowered to videoing the woman without her consent, but they weren't allowed back on the team.  I believe all 3 are playing again, Donnie Corley is at an FCS

Andrews was grades
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2019, 01:40:57 PM
damn that looks like some Michigan recruiting classes towards the end of the LC era and some in the Rodriguez era. Missing on that many recruits and having that much attrition in a single class is devestating to a program. Definitely explains some of the struggles at MSU.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 18, 2019, 03:48:39 PM
With the transfer of WR Cam Chambers because the whole law school/D1 football thing wasn't working, can anyone name a bigger disaster of a class than the MSU 2016 class ever?

It was ranked #17 overall, #3 in the Big Ten, and supposedly the culmination of the 3 year run of top 5 finishes from 2013-15.  The 2016 class is *probably* the most important class to the 2019 roster, comprising the true seniors and redshirt juniors.

Instead (by recruiting rank order), you have the following, with the bolded being the only ones still on the team

**** DE Josh King (#94) - kicked off team
**** DE Auston Robinson (#103) - kicked off team
**** WR Donnie Corley (#108) - kicked off team
**** WR Justin Layne (#179) - left early for NFL Draft
**** DT Naquan Jones (#224)
**** WR Trishton Jackson (#229) - transferred
**** WR Cam Chambers (#242) - transferred
**** S Demetric Vance (#243) - kicked off team
**** QB Messiah deWeaver (#245) - transferred
*** S Kenney Lyke (#350) - transferred
*** OLB Brandon Randle (#361) - transferred
*** OT Thyio Lukusa (#369) - transferred
*** DT Mike Panasiuk (#377)
*** TE Noah Davis (#599)
*** CB Austin Andrews (#715) - kicked off team
*** OT Luke Campbell (#743)
*** ILB Joe Bachie
*** OT A.J. Arcuri
*** OC Matt Allen
*** K Matt Coghlin

So out of the class that was supposed to end the problem of just having too much less talent than schools like Bama to ever compete for a national title, 10 of the top 11 rated commits didn't make it, and only 1 was because he left early for the draft.  Instead it wound up being the class that hampered MSU by giving us a dearth of 4th year players this year, and forcing us to pull too many redshirts in 2017.  If you re-rank the class with all of the removals/transferred removed (keeping the guy who left early for the draft), MSU falls from #17 overall/#3 Big Ten to #80 overall/#12 Big Ten.
Transfer portal.  RS junior TE who last had a catch in 2017.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on October 18, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
damn so that's only what- 5 actual football players- sorry Kickers- left from that MSU class? Ouch.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 18, 2019, 04:13:04 PM
Well, scholarship players.  They also had a walk on in Kenny Willikes who panned out ok
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on October 18, 2019, 04:24:26 PM
Very much similar to UW's 2014 and 2015 classes, which caught up to them last season. I mean, they weren't bad kids (except one), but many just didn't pan out for one reason or another. Thanks, Gerry...
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on October 18, 2019, 11:08:42 PM
that's recruiting

most kids never start
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2019, 04:00:47 PM
Hey, at least MSU's season can't go any farther off the rails...

https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1189986608315084802
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: mcwterps1 on October 31, 2019, 04:24:24 PM
Probably a LB tradition. 

Bullough was roided up as well. 

I wonder how often they test these guys, because many thought Vernon Davis and Shawne Merriman were juicing way back when.

I think Shawne tested positive while in the NFL. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 31, 2019, 04:27:27 PM
My guess had always been that a significant portion do.  Only the dumb ones get caught.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on October 31, 2019, 06:21:42 PM
Damn hope they get things straightened out in E.L.It's better when Sparty is salty

HA! one M fan replied Couches are not the only thing burning in East Lansing.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on November 05, 2019, 04:39:18 PM
FWIW, one of The Athletic writers saying on his Podcast Bachie's PED was Adderall
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on November 07, 2019, 01:21:55 PM
https://amp.freep.com/amp/2512803001?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on November 11, 2019, 09:40:42 AM
You had to figure this is probably how it was going to end

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/11/charles-rogers-former-michigan-state-detroit-lions-star-dies/2560725001/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/11/charles-rogers-former-michigan-state-detroit-lions-star-dies/2560725001/)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on November 11, 2019, 11:13:36 AM
Eight kids?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on November 11, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
You had to figure this is probably how it was going to end

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/11/charles-rogers-former-michigan-state-detroit-lions-star-dies/2560725001/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/11/11/charles-rogers-former-michigan-state-detroit-lions-star-dies/2560725001/)
Damn. His story is just so sad. A true cautionary tale. He was right up there with Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson in terms of just natural god-given ability imo. Been a lot of great WR's to come out of college and into the league over the last 20 years. Charles Rogers was right up there with the very best. I honestly would only put Randy and Calvin ahead of him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on December 10, 2019, 08:44:04 PM
Only NC State (2-10) and Akron (1-11) were worse than MSU (3-9) (tied with others, including Nebraska and Northwestern) ATS this season
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on December 11, 2019, 01:14:27 PM
not a good look for the Big Ten
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 11, 2019, 01:28:31 PM
I'd like to see a breakdown of that 3-9. At first glance I'd have to think a lot of that was early season games.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on December 11, 2019, 01:37:03 PM
Actually 2 of their 3 ATS wins came in the first 4 games.  They were 14.5 point favorites against WMU, and won by 34, and 7.5 point favorites against Northwestern and won by 21.

They failed to cover in 7 of their last 8, with a 27 point win at Rutgers, as 21 point favorites, being the lone exception.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on December 18, 2019, 12:23:06 PM
This is the same "journalist" who ran with Tom Izzo taking over the football coaching job in 2007 and Dantonio retiring after 2018, plus makes it his job to simply try and troll at Big 10 media days, so grain of salt, but putting it out there of note

https://twitter.com/HondoCarpenter/status/1207344078788141058
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on December 21, 2019, 10:07:50 PM
Kid made academic All-Big Ten, while losing both parents (in Texas) during his college years.  Had his dogs walk him out for Senior Day(which obviously rival Twitter hated), but I'm not sure MSU has had a better kid out on the uniform under Dantonio

https://twitter.com/JoshButlerTv/status/1208427010302889984?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Abba on December 22, 2019, 11:38:03 AM
Rivals hated?  Ugh, just ignore and move on I guess.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 22, 2019, 11:59:19 AM


They are definitely keeping the Walrus.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on December 23, 2019, 10:29:56 AM
Awesome story.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on December 31, 2019, 05:57:07 PM
Bears fired their OL coach, who developed a bunch of first round picks at ND from 2011-17.  Fire Walrus, go get this guy.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on December 31, 2019, 08:45:09 PM
2020 is going to be the Jeslord Boateng show.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 03, 2020, 08:42:31 AM
RS freshman LB Edward Warriner enters the transfer portal.  Not really surprising, a lot of people were kind of surprised he even got offered in the first place, and he had never seen the field.

The only reason it's noteworthy, is because it puts to end any rumors of MSU being able to scoop his dad, Ed Warriner, away from Michigan.  There were always rumors of making him OL coach/co-OC.  He an Dantonio are close friends, as are their wives, Warriner's wife being an MSU alum himself.  Throw in his son playing on the team, and maybe gave you a glimmer of hope.  Can't imagine you'd jump to the school your son was transferring away from.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on January 03, 2020, 10:36:13 AM
transferring to Michigan??

I hear they have some LBs graduating
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on January 03, 2020, 11:07:47 AM
Schedule

Northwestern
@BYU
Toledo
Miami (FL)
@Iowa
Michigan
OSU
@Indiana
Minnesota
BYE
PSU
Rutgers
@Maryland

Hope Sparty gets some things figured out.  Not a ton of easy wins here.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 03, 2020, 11:37:41 AM
transferring to Michigan??

I hear they have some LBs graduating
I doubt Michigan would even offer him a scholarship.  I would bet on a MAC school
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 06, 2020, 08:53:01 PM
Unreal

https://twitter.com/SpartyDigital/status/1214334433010081793?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on January 13, 2020, 07:59:48 PM
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/01/12/recruiting-trouble-msu-sex-assaults-throw-football-program-loss/4232804002/


I don't know what to say here. We knew of all the pieces and parts, but damn. How dos this happen??
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on January 13, 2020, 08:28:01 PM
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/01/12/recruiting-trouble-msu-sex-assaults-throw-football-program-loss/4232804002/


I don't know what to say here. We knew of all the pieces and parts, but damn. How dos this happen??
There seems to be a "UNLV must be punished because Kentucky was cheating" aspect to it.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on January 20, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
Fun!

https://twitter.com/MattSmithCFB/status/1219296961351897088
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on January 20, 2020, 07:28:54 PM
:41::character0029:
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on January 22, 2020, 10:17:23 AM
hey, Nebraska made the top 5!

It's the last 5 games that make a murderous run

@ Ohio st.
Penn St.
@ Iowa 
@ Wisconsin
Minnesota
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 02:41:57 PM
Rumor that Dantonio is retiring today.

Really weird timing, absent medical news
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 04, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
Google news turned this up in a search for Dantonio, posted ~40 minutes ago:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/04/blackwell-lawyers-detail-allegations-msus-mark-dantonio-committed-multiple-ncaa-violations/4655797002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/04/blackwell-lawyers-detail-allegations-msus-mark-dantonio-committed-multiple-ncaa-violations/4655797002/)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 02:45:18 PM
Rumor that Dantonio is retiring today.

Really weird timing, absent medical news
Official

https://twitter.com/DantonioMark/status/1224780475165577216?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 02:48:42 PM
Google news turned this up in a search for Dantonio, posted ~40 minutes ago:

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/04/blackwell-lawyers-detail-allegations-msus-mark-dantonio-committed-multiple-ncaa-violations/4655797002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/04/blackwell-lawyers-detail-allegations-msus-mark-dantonio-committed-multiple-ncaa-violations/4655797002/)
I would have to think there would be more.  What is unauthorized contact by a staff member off campus?  A secondary violation?  Didn't Urban frequently "bump into" recruits at camps.

So unless there is more coming, I would guess that isn't it.  Granted, he also testified that Blackwell never visited any prospects with him, except once, and then remained in the car.  So if that wasn't true, then he committed perjury regarding said secondary violation, and that would be enough to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 04, 2020, 02:54:35 PM
So.... odds on Luke Fickell being the next coach at MSU?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 04, 2020, 02:58:03 PM
Rumor that Dantonio is retiring today.

Really weird timing, absent medical news
His $4.3 million bonus cashed in mid-Jan. Maybe wait til that direct deposit goes through.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 02:58:38 PM
So.... odds on Luke Fickell bring the next coach at MSU?
Eh, odds are its an interim coach at this point for next year
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2020, 02:58:42 PM
What dood?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 02:59:30 PM
His $4.3 million bonus cashed in mid-Jan. Maybe wait til that direct deposit goes through.
If he had retired the day after that, I sure wouldn't have blamed him.  But to wait another 3 weeks, then the day before NSD?

I'm guessing he perjured himself
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 04, 2020, 02:59:39 PM
Wonder if this has anything to do with it.. 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/04/blackwell-lawyers-detail-allegations-msus-mark-dantonio-committed-multiple-ncaa-violations/4655797002/
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 04, 2020, 03:00:27 PM
I would have to think there would be more.  What is unauthorized contact by a staff member off campus?  A secondary violation?  Didn't Urban frequently "bump into" recruits at camps.

So unless there is more coming, I would guess that isn't it.  Granted, he also testified that Blackwell never visited any prospects with him, except once, and then remained in the car.  So if that wasn't true, then he committed perjury regarding said secondary violation, and that would be enough to me.
True... But someone like Dantonio must be smart enough to not get himself nicked for perjury, right?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2020, 03:01:38 PM
I would have to think there would be more.  What is unauthorized contact by a staff member off campus?  A secondary violation?  Didn't Urban frequently "bump into" recruits at camps.

So unless there is more coming, I would guess that isn't it.  Granted, he also testified that Blackwell never visited any prospects with him, except once, and then remained in the car.  So if that wasn't true, then he committed perjury regarding said secondary violation, and that would be enough to me.
Yes, but, Ohio State. 

Sorry to see MD go.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Entropy on February 04, 2020, 03:25:16 PM
Timing is very.... odd.  One cannot help but think this was unplanned or forced.  

If I'm MSU I would not settle for a HC.   The interim tag is fine into the fall if you don't have someone you really want.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2020, 03:32:22 PM
Speaking of Urban Meyer....
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: grillrat on February 04, 2020, 03:37:48 PM
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28635019/mark-dantonio-steps-coach-michigan-state

Wow.  One day before signing day.

(Sorry, missed it that this was covered in the MSU offseason thread)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 04, 2020, 06:18:23 PM
Dantonio's Top 20 Wins:

1. 2013 Rose Bowl Vs #5 Stanford
2. 2013 Big Ten Championship Vs #2 Ohio State
3. 2015 Vs #2 Ohio State (in Columbus)
4. 2015 Vs #12 Michigan (in Ann Arbor) – beating Harbaugh during his first season, is this Sparty's favorite win Vs UM?
5. 2011 Vs #4 Wisconsin – Hail Mary
6.(tie) 2010 Vs #17 Michigan (in Ann Arbor) AND Vs Notre Dame (OT) – both wins anchored what would be an 11-2 season, the first of SIX (+)10 win seasons under Dantonio
8. 2015 Big Ten Championship Vs #4 Iowa
9. 2011 Vs #11 Michigan – beat Michigan during their only good year under Hoke
10. 2014 Cotton Bowl Vs #4 Baylor – huge comeback
11. 2011 Outback Bowl Vs #18 Georgia – marking Dantonio’s first of SIX Bowl wins, this was over an SEC team in during the height of SEC chest thumping
12. 2008 Vs Michigan (in Ann Arbor) – Michigan would only finish 3-9 but this was the first of a number of wins MSU would have against Michigan during Dantonio’s tenure, and anchored the first of 7 seasons ranked to end the year
13. 2015 Vs #7 Oregon – Big early season showdown that started the season leading to MSU making the College Football Playoff
14.(tie) 2017 Vs #7 Michigan (in Ann Arbor) & Vs #7 Penn State – strange wins anchored the last of Dantonio’s ranked seasons
16. 2009 Vs #22 Michigan (OT) – began the salvaging of a 1-3 start that would finish with a bowl
17.(tie) 2007 Vs Notre Dame (in South Bend) & Vs #22 Penn State – ND would only finish 3-9, but beating both in during Dantonio’s first season was a good sign to come
19. 2016 Vs #18 Notre Dame (in South Bend) – somehow beat Notre Dame to begin a 3-9 season (ND finished 4-8)
20. 2010 Vs #11 Wisconsin OR 2018 Vs #8 Penn State (in State College)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 04, 2020, 06:25:42 PM
I'd move Iowa in Indy and the Cotton bow up to 6 and 7, but hard to argue overall.

I might put the 2013 win over OSU #1, because getting to the Rose Bowl might have been a bigger deal than winning it, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Wonder if Narduzzi's time has passed or is MSU ready to renew old acquaintences.Sort of wish Leach would have waited a month - that would be interesting.Maybe Matt Campbell
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2020, 07:04:22 PM
Timing is very.... odd.  One cannot help but think this was unplanned or forced. 

If I'm MSU I would not settle for a HC.  The interim tag is fine into the fall if you don't have someone you really want.
The Walrus?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 04, 2020, 07:27:35 PM
But look at it from the prospective hire's angle... What was it that caused this? Is there going to be some lingering stench that wasn't all Dantonio's doing that you don't want to walk into??

If this was perjury, then ok... That's on Dantonio, because the recruiting violations were pretty minor. But if there's some latent land mine waiting to crush the program, you don't want to accept the job and step on it, getting the career death that Dantonio was avoiding.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 04, 2020, 08:42:12 PM
Chicago sports radio (AM670) saying MD was forced out by the MSU BOT's. Interesting...
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 04, 2020, 10:38:33 PM
So Tressel is the interim?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 04, 2020, 11:17:45 PM
The Walrus?
Why would Craig Stadler come out of golf retirement at his age?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MarqHusker on February 05, 2020, 12:59:08 AM
Glad I wasn't the only one thinking of Craig Stadler.  He was a character.  Never forget his towel trick (which got him DQ'd) at Torrey Pines on the 14th hole.  His walrus head cover he used to play with when things got backed up on the tee.   He would throw some clubs too.

That DQ was a result of fans calling into (NBC?) to complain/point out that Stadler put the towel down (he wanted to keep his pants dry IIRC, as it was wet) when he was trying to hit the ball which was nestled next to the stump of a dying tree in the right rough, but that it improperly improving (I think the rule says 'building')  his stance.   He never assessed the two shot penalty on himself, and it wasn't until an hour or so later that PGA officials caught wind of this and DQ'd him.     The Walrus was invited back years later armed with a chainsaw to cut the dead pine down.   I played that course awhile ago, I don't remember seeing any marker for that incident, of course that was one of the only holes I birdied that day, so I wasn't over there.   I think the Tour finally put a stop just recently to letting fans/others call in broadcasts to call out rules violations.

tourist tip;  if you play Torrey Pines (South Course), play as early as possible, that's a certain six hour round otherwise.  Glad I was with a local who informed us of this and got us out at dawn.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2020, 09:48:34 AM
never knew that about Stadler but I don't follow golf that closely.Just enough to know it's a good walk ruined and I'd rather be fishing  ;D

Ha listened to Mike Valenti's podcast( https://omny.fm/shows/the-valenti-show/breaking-news-mark-dantonio-abrubtly-announces-ret (https://omny.fm/shows/the-valenti-show/breaking-news-mark-dantonio-abrubtly-announces-ret) )  yesterday.He is railing on Dantonio how MD didn't even have a Presser and exits with a tweet.Goes on to say what are you a 15 yr old girl?Kinda of a sad exist for a once solid coach - sort of like Tressel  @ tOSU
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 05, 2020, 11:17:29 AM
Wonder if Narduzzi's time has passed or is MSU ready to renew old acquaintences.Sort of wish Leach would have waited a month - that would be interesting.Maybe Matt Campbell
Des Moines Register reported today that Matt Campbell declined overtures from Michigan St.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 05, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
Wow IMO he could do damage up in EL.He's prolly in a good way with the Cyclones and it has to be a no brainer
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CWSooner on February 05, 2020, 12:15:38 PM
I heard Doug Gottlieb saying yesterday that the two leading candidates have to be Fickel and Narduzzi.  Does that seem to be the case 20 hours later?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 05, 2020, 12:29:29 PM
I am happy no one mentioned Phil Parker, Iowa's defensive coordinator, who is a Michigan State alumnus, and who was a graduate assistant at Michigan State. 

I would guess what Michigan State really needs is someone with an a background in offense, and maybe keep the defensive coordinator they already have, Mike Tressel, or hire Tressel as head coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2020, 01:23:33 PM
Phil Parker going back to MSU at this point would almost be like Barry Alvarez going back to Nebraska. The ship sailed long ago.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 05, 2020, 01:33:29 PM
I am happy no one mentioned Phil Parker, Iowa's defensive coordinator, who is a Michigan State alumnus, and who was a graduate assistant at Michigan State.

I would guess what Michigan State really needs is someone with an a background in offense, and maybe keep the defensive coordinator they already have, Mike Tressel, or hire Tressel as head coach.
He'll also be 57 next year, and has been at Iowa for 20 years.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 05, 2020, 02:30:02 PM
Sounds like no Fickell or Campbell.  The timing of this is awful for hiring anyone now.  Just let Tressell have it for a year, and then hire a permanent coach.  You lose a recruiting class, but a bad hire loses you years.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 05, 2020, 02:54:46 PM
Gary Andersen.


:57:
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 05, 2020, 03:14:02 PM
I just read an article about the #6 QB recruit in the nation signed letter of intent with Cincy, and has lost communication with Fickell. An assistant advising they are so to speak waiting to see what happens. 

I am guessing MSU and Fickell are in negotiations.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 05, 2020, 03:50:19 PM
That would be somewhat surprising.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Mdot21 on February 05, 2020, 10:03:10 PM
That would be somewhat surprising.
not really. Dantonio was an assistant at Ohio State and the head coach at Cinci before taking the MSU job. Sound familiar? Would be a great move to go and replace the old Dantonio with the new Dantonio.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 05, 2020, 10:14:03 PM
not really. Dantonio was an assistant at Ohio State and the head coach at Cinci before taking the MSU job. Sound familiar? Would be a great move to go and replace the old Dantonio with the new Dantonio.
True, but he can hold out for a better gig where he doesn't have to go up against OSU, PSU and the Wolverines every year. Narduzzi is the true Dantonio type hire. His resume at Pitt is nearly identical to Dino's at Cincy, and with his MSU ties he would probably view it as a destination job.

The one thing Fickel does have in common with Dantonio is that they are the only two modern Bearcat coaches to not win a single conference title, going all the way back to Rick Minter. Even Tommy Tuberville was able to muster one.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: rook119 on February 05, 2020, 11:44:46 PM
My feeling is that it would take lots and lots of money to pry Narduzzi from Pitt in 2020. Which asks the question do you want pay Pat Narduzzi lots and lots of money? 

He's been developing Pitt's defense for years now and at least on paper it looks to be stacked.  I think he wants to be around it for this year at least instead of what looks to be walking into a messy situtation at the last minute. In 2021 if that's your guy, I think he might be interested. 

If Fickell says no just give it to Tressel in the intern or go save Matt Canada (who really did a good job in a worse situtation at Maryland) from having to coach meathead on the Steelers. 

Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 02:09:52 PM
Allen Trieu (247/Detroit News writer) saying all his sources saying it's still going to be Fickell.

Sounds like one BOT member is slowing things down, and has his own target in mind.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2020, 02:24:35 PM
Ya Bollman
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2020, 02:33:11 PM
Allen Trieu (247/Detroit News writer) saying all his sources saying it's still going to be Fickell.

Sounds like one BOT member is slowing things down, and has his own target in mind.
Any idea which?

Didn't one of the trustees play for Saban at MSU? That would be a good hire.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 06, 2020, 02:51:12 PM
Chicago sports radio (AM670) saying MD was forced out by the MSU BOT's. Interesting...

This guy sure agrees!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mug-izIqY0Y

 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mug-izIqY0Y)

"This is an embarrassment to me because if there's a personal matter for Mark's family health - otherwise you got a cite it in the letter, you have to cite it in the letter because when you don't now, you speculate and if it's not that then, you know what I gotta be honest, then this is a disgrace. It's a disgrace because it either means he did something wrong or he quit. Play it out guys, play it out, family health door number two did something wrong...now I'm pissed with a tweet. With a tweet! ...You've avoided the media like the plague you won't answer for the lack of staffing changes now we're a with a tweet. You don't call a press conference! You don't stand up there and give people a decency is the greatest coach in school history to walk away! Oh wait I know, unless you burn him to the ground if he did something wrong. And it is less than 24 hours before National Signing Day. An abrupt decision like this just doesn't seem like something from a loyal guy like Dantonio."
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 02:53:52 PM
Any idea which?

Didn't one of the trustees play for Saban at MSU? That would be a good hire.
I believe two are former players, one I think was Saban, the other was Perles, IIRC.  But no, neither of those Trustees
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Abba on February 06, 2020, 03:10:57 PM
I think they are holding out for Frank Solich.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MichiFan87 on February 06, 2020, 03:38:29 PM
I think they are holding out for Frank Solich.
In all seriousness, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to do something like Baylor did hiring Grobe for 1 year (of course, John L Smith of all people was in a similar situation at Arkansas) to clean house and make a better hire next year. Not sure who that person would be for MSU (maybe Mariucci since he's tight with Izzo or Dan Enos since he's unemployed and has HC experience).
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 03:48:30 PM
In all seriousness, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad idea to do something like Baylor did hiring Grobe for 1 year (of course, John L Smith of all people was in a similar situation at Arkansas) to clean house and make a better hire next year. Not sure who that person would be for MSU (maybe Mariucci since he's tight with Izzo or Dan Enos since he's unemployed and has HC experience).
If Campbell, Narduzzi and Fickell are all unavailable, I agree.  If any of those were the result of a full coaching search (Campbell, Fickell, Narduzzi, in that order), MSU fans would be perfectly happy.  But sounds like Campbell and Narduzzi are out, so its Fickell or bust.  If Fickell is also out, I'd just let Tressell remain interim for a year.  The "talent" next year is such that I'm not concerned about him having so much success they have to hire him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 06, 2020, 03:52:14 PM
I think they are holding out for Frank Solich.
I'd steal the famous bow rower from the Gophers

he's younger and has a way with words
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 06, 2020, 04:33:39 PM
But sounds like Campbell and Narduzzi are out, so its Fickell or bust. 
Hard to believe Narduzzi didn't snap at the offer(if true) (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/017.gif) .Unless things behind the scenes are bad.Pit is Meh,IMO and I don't see them gaining traction anytime soon.Of course he may have settled in and he's their man moving forward.But MSU certainly electrified things in the conference and brought a swagger though briefly(5yrs).Need at least 3-4 programs kicking A and taking names all season
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
Hard to believe Narduzzi didn't snap at the offer(if true) (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/017.gif) .Unless things behind the scenes are bad.Pit is Meh,IMO and I don't see them gaining traction anytime soon.Of course he may have settled in and he's their man moving forward.But MSU certainly electrified things in the conference and brought a swagger though briefly(5yrs).Need at least 3-4 programs kicking A and taking names all season
There are no reports he was even offered.  Reports the past two years were that he wasn't interested, so maybe that was just already known.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 06, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
I heard some chatter about Bielema too. Nothing of real substance though. Not sure if he'd play well in EL.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: rook119 on February 06, 2020, 06:24:31 PM
Hard to believe Narduzzi didn't snap at the offer(if true) (https://www.cfb51.com/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/017.gif) .Unless things behind the scenes are bad.Pit is Meh,IMO and I don't see them gaining traction anytime soon.Of course he may have settled in and he's their man moving forward.But MSU certainly electrified things in the conference and brought a swagger though briefly(5yrs).Need at least 3-4 programs kicking A and taking names all season

His 2 best DL (at least at the beginning of 19) were out for the season w/ injuries and they almost (did?) led the NCAA in sacks. Hamlin got an extra year of elegilibity and Ford is a potential all-american so the safety pairing should be top 5. Pickett makes mistakes but he improved quite a bit last year. 

Yes there are big holes (RB, TE, OL, WRs drop more passes than they catch, maybe LB) but the sched is finally favorable this year w/ only 1 very good team (ND at home) and one team out of this platter who might be good (UNC, FSU, Miami, and VT) on the sched. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 06, 2020, 07:32:54 PM
If Campbell, Narduzzi and Fickell are all unavailable, I agree.  If any of those were the result of a full coaching search (Campbell, Fickell, Narduzzi, in that order), MSU fans would be perfectly happy.  But sounds like Campbell and Narduzzi are out, so its Fickell or bust.  If Fickell is also out, I'd just let Tressell remain interim for a year.  The "talent" next year is such that I'm not concerned about him having so much success they have to hire him.
Just checked out recruiting on Rivals:

2020: #39;

 2019: #32.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 06, 2020, 07:54:19 PM
I mean MSUs talent.  We won't be good next year with Dantonio, Fickell, Tressell, or Nick Saban.  So if you can't get Fickell, and have to stick with the interim Tressell, I'm not concerned that he'll go 10-2 and force MSU to hire.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 06, 2020, 08:28:20 PM
Does Dino get Pelini's gig at Youngstown?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 07, 2020, 04:32:58 PM
MSU had 7 players invited to the combine, tied for the CFP team for the most in MSU history, and 9th among all teams this year.  FYI, none of the teams with more went 7-6.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 07, 2020, 08:33:10 PM
Huskers had 4, all on defense

as you are well aware, the defense SUCKED
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 07, 2020, 09:40:24 PM
MSU officially interviewing Fickell, and Colorado coach Mel Tucker.

Asked to interview the 49ers DC, who is an alum, but he said he wants to stay in the NFL.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1225966402726715392?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 08, 2020, 08:51:06 AM
Tucker hasn't done well as a HC seems more like a career asst - his Chicago Defenses were bad.Sparty needs a resounding reboot here after the steady decline of the last 3-4 seasons from relevance
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 08, 2020, 09:05:42 AM
I'd steer clear of Tuck. Good guy and a Barry favorite, but there's a reason he's never been hired in Madison.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 09, 2020, 10:55:01 AM
Odd

https://twitter.com/reporterdavidj/status/1226501345190043648?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 09, 2020, 12:50:29 PM
HA! Micah Parsons transferring(in that tweet)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 08:33:29 AM
Cincinnati media reporting Fickell to MSU is a done deal.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2020, 09:31:43 AM
Some conflicting reports seeing Thamel report he is staying at UC
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2020, 09:35:18 AM
Also, while I understand the pursuit of Fickell, there is no need for Sparty to panic.  Chris Creighton and Lance Leipold would both be fine hires. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 10, 2020, 10:04:22 AM
Fickell turns down MSU. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/10/luke-fickell-michigan-state-football/4711965002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/10/luke-fickell-michigan-state-football/4711965002/)

Makes no sense, unless MSU is expecting sanctions. What better offers does he have?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 10, 2020, 10:14:21 AM
Also, while I understand the pursuit of Fickell, there is no need for Sparty to panic.  Chris Creighton and Lance Leipold would both be fine hires.
Re: Leipold. I have often thought that some of the best coaching is at the D-III level where the kids lack the talent of D-I. You are recruiting players to attend the university and who will pay tuition. You ask a lot from them. To be a consistent winner you must coach up and develop players.

It would be interesting to see how a D-III coach would do at the D-I level.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2020, 10:28:57 AM
I also feel that MSU's football program is a bit of a mess right now. The resources are there, but the organization not so much.  You want a guy who feels comfortable starting from the ground up.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2020, 10:31:38 AM
Fickell turns down MSU. https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/10/luke-fickell-michigan-state-football/4711965002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/10/luke-fickell-michigan-state-football/4711965002/)

Makes no sense, unless MSU is expecting sanctions. What better offers does he have?
Worth pointing out that Fickell ain't a job hopper.  He was at OSU for a million years and he has 6 kids and a decent enough job right now.  Perhaps if the timing was better and MSU wasn't in such a rush, this would have worked out.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 10:36:14 AM
Board of trustees meeting this morning, I'm guessing they found a way to screw it up again
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 10, 2020, 10:54:47 AM
Hearing a lot of Bert Bielema.  Which...ok.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 10:56:54 AM
Sounds like a birdie may have told him ND was only a one or two year wait 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 10, 2020, 11:01:27 AM
What is really weird is that there is so much publicity about what they are doing compared to other coaching searches. 

For instance, they will interview two, Mel Tucker and Luke Fickell. I immediately thought, "Why Mel Tucker? Just because they have to interview more than one candidate so they could say they considered options.

Then Mel Tucker says, "I am not interviewing." And so it looks like it's Fickell, and now it looks like a bit of embarrassment. It can be corrected since there should be a good pile of money awaiting the new coach. Maybe they should interview Brian Ferentz. They could continue their current offense. Ferentz probably would hire some decent assistants. I think that's one thing he has learned from his dad.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: fezzador on February 10, 2020, 11:47:52 AM
BF is too inexperienced still.  If he goes out and coaches on his own, my guess is he starts at a MAC-level school.  Or goes back to the NFL and works his way back up.

But yeah, this seems like Tennessee all over again.  The best thing to do would be to slap an "interim" label on a coordinator and let him see what he can do for a season, and then open up the pocketbook in December.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 10, 2020, 02:37:15 PM
IMHO this is the death of MSU as part of the "big 4" in the East. I think they're destined for a slide back to join MD/IU/RU. Maybe still remain above those programs, but not ever in legitimate discussion for winning the division.

MSU's most recent resurgence was partly due to Dantonio, but it was also partly due to capitalizing on big brother's malaise. Dantonio was a great coach in the Kirk Ferentz model -- get halfway decent talent, but develop it better than most. They never had UM/PSU/OSU level talent, but player development helped at least keep them in the conversation. 

Not that big brother has managed to get a division title, but they've probably reestablished their dominance in-state. MSU's only chance to maintain parity is if their next coach is an absolutely PERFECT hire. Someone with the personality to keep their recruiting on trend if not improve it, who also has the ability to develop players much better than average. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 02:58:44 PM
MSU's most recent resurgence was partly due to Dantonio, but it was also partly due to capitalizing on big brother's malaise. Dantonio was a great coach in the Kirk Ferentz model -- get halfway decent talent, but develop it better than most. They never had UM/PSU/OSU level talent, but player development helped at least keep them in the conversation.

Not that big brother has managed to get a division title, but they've probably reestablished their dominance in-state. MSU's only chance to maintain parity is if their next coach is an absolutely PERFECT hire. Someone with the personality to keep their recruiting on trend if not improve it, who also has the ability to develop players much better than average.
MSU was never beating UM for players.  What has hurt them more has been Kentucky and Cincinnati getting all of the Ohio kids just OSU didn't offer.  MSU was cleaning up on those guys, and that dried up.  That was the biggest deal about Fickell, was not just him coming here, but him leaving Cincinnati.  Him and Stoops had more to do with what has happened to MSU than Harbaugh and Franklin did.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 10, 2020, 04:03:51 PM
IMHO this is the death of MSU as part of the "big 4" in the East. I think they're destined for a slide back to join MD/IU/RU. Maybe still remain above those programs, but not ever in legitimate discussion for winning the division.
If they are sanctioned by the NCAA they may slide down. It may take them a year or two to get back on track, even if they are not sanctioned. But, I wouldn't write off MSU. They did well in the 1950s and 1960s. They slid back in the 1970s until about the late 1980s if memory serves me right.

MSU has almost always played winning football, I think, if you go decade by decade. After the Big 2, I think they had the best conference record % of wins when it was the Big Ten.

I don't have time to look that up right now. But, I think the doom and gloom about MSU will probably be brief, especially if Bret B coaches them and he apparently has said he is interested. Whatever happened in Arkansas, I don't know, but one learns from one's mistakes. He was a great recruiter when he was with Iowa and did well at Wisconsin.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 04:13:51 PM
I think the issue is, this is the first hire MSU has had to make as a Big Ten East member.

You are always going to be spent into the ground by the three helmets, but there are SOME expectations, unlike the bottom three programs in the division.

Look at who Indiana, Maryland and Rutgers have hired in this alignment?  Indiana promoted a coordinator from within; Maryland hired a pair of coordinators, one who they had passed on many times before; Rutgers hired an unemployed dude, who was most recently a coordinator, who Tennessee opted for continued embarrassment over hiring.  If Fickell wants to wind up at OSU/ND, MSU, in the current environment, ain't the place for it.

To be honest the EMU coach is really growing on me.  No, he hasn't won big there, but I think that's been the failure of other programs.  They hire the hot MAC coach.  Sometimes that works (P.J. Fleck or Matt Campbell), but too often, it's just a guy where everything lined up right for one year, like Turner Gill or Darell Hazell.  Creighton has actually built arguably the worst program in the FBS into a decent middle of the MAC program.  He's proven to have built a program there, over just having one great season.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 10, 2020, 04:32:29 PM
all it takes is the right coach if he has the proper backing
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 10, 2020, 05:33:40 PM
Creighton is an excellent coach and I think will definitely make a good kind of hire. 

Bert would make me laugh. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 10, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
If you had to pick betwixt Pelini and Bert....

?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 10, 2020, 06:39:04 PM
Lance Leipold is raising his hand.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2020, 07:07:59 PM
Also, while I understand the pursuit of Fickell, there is no need for Sparty to panic.  Chris Creighton and Lance Leipold would both be fine hires.
I think Creighton from what Ive read would be a solid addition
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2020, 07:13:45 PM
Sounds like a birdie may have told him ND was only a one or two year wait
Ya a Buzzard ND would have to be bat shit crazy to touch that backstabing tub - Kharma remember Bert
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 09:45:02 PM
Ya a Buzzard ND would have to be bat shit crazy to touch that backstabing tub - Kharma remember Bert
No, Fickell
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 10, 2020, 09:57:25 PM
There's your answer. Brian Kelly.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 10:00:18 PM
There's your answer. Brian Kelly.
Same as 2007, hard pass.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 10, 2020, 11:19:34 PM
No, Fickell
He's reputed to be a great recruiter,hopefully no to ND or to recruiting.ND hits the Buckeye state pretty hard
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 10, 2020, 11:32:17 PM
Mike Hart?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 10, 2020, 11:46:07 PM
Mike Hart?
Not sure we have the budget for enough stools
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 09:29:22 AM
As I said, Board of Trustees = total disaster

https://twitter.com/JamieSamuelsen/status/1227216396532244480?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 09:52:50 AM
Saw Kansas City Chiefs LB coach Matt House brought up.

MSU alum, from Harrison, MI (which is about 1.5 hours north of East Lansing)

He was a grad assistant under Bobby Williams, before going to Buffalo as DB coach/recruiting coordinator for Turner Gill's first two years, building the roster that won the 2008 MAC title.

Spent 4 years as an NFL assistant from 2008-11

Returned to NCAA in 2012, spending 7 years as a defensive coordinator at Pitt, FIU and eventually Kentucky, before taking the Chiefs LB coaching job.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 10:24:29 AM
As I said, Board of Trustees = total disaster

https://twitter.com/JamieSamuelsen/status/1227216396532244480?s=20
And this one


https://twitter.com/SpartanWire/status/1227015509805277190?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 11, 2020, 10:42:48 AM
Saw Kansas City Chiefs LB coach Matt House brought up.

MSU alum, from Harrison, MI (which is about 1.5 hours north of East Lansing)

He was a grad assistant under Bobby Williams, before going to Buffalo as DB coach/recruiting coordinator for Turner Gill's first two years, building the roster that won the 2008 MAC title.

Spent 4 years as an NFL assistant from 2008-11

Returned to NCAA in 2012, spending 7 years as a defensive coordinator at Pitt, FIU and eventually Kentucky, before taking the Chiefs LB coaching job.
Yuck.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: fezzador on February 11, 2020, 10:44:39 AM
Would John L Smith be interested in coaching for one more year?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 11:26:40 AM
Yuck.
Really?  As far as Plan D guys go, I don't hate it.  He's still be behind Creighton.  I'm worried Leopold is too old.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: fezzador on February 11, 2020, 11:41:27 AM
Leipold will be 56 when the season starts.  Not exactly a spring chicken, but he could coach 8-10 more seasons if he wants.

But he may be completely happy with his gig in Buffalo and might not be all that interested in rebuilding a P5 program that sits behind 3 traditional powers in the same division.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Entropy on February 11, 2020, 02:21:12 PM
I bet Bo Pelini would take the job
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 11, 2020, 03:05:53 PM
too bad that Ref retired

Bielema or Pelini would be the most fun  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 03:50:53 PM
Who would blame Fickell at this point?

https://twitter.com/MikeSullivan/status/1227325959868735495?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 11, 2020, 06:11:11 PM
Not sure we have the budget for enough stools
Yeah but Mike Hart guiding "Little Brother" to an upset win over the Jim "not a Michigan Man" Harbaugh led Wolverines?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 11, 2020, 11:37:52 PM
A lot of buzz about circling back to Mel Tucker.  I think his initial interview was a sham.  Who knows where both parties stand after that, but worth noting.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 01:57:37 AM
MSU can do better than that,he doesn't have a resume.Unless he has the gift of gab and can recruit like Jimmy Johnson,good luck
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on February 12, 2020, 05:22:16 AM
Lane Kiffin would have been a good hire.  Pickings are slim at this point.  All coaching hires are a crap shoot.  Sparty’s will be more so than average.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 12, 2020, 06:52:52 AM
Sounds like it's Mel Tucker
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on February 12, 2020, 07:34:53 AM
Sounds like it's Mel Tucker

Hugely underwhelmed.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 08:58:30 AM
MSU can do better than that,he doesn't have a resume.Unless he has the gift of gab and can recruit like Jimmy Johnson,good luck
He apparently is an ace recruiter.  The issue is, you aren't going to out-recruit OSU, PSU and UM, so if you can't coach em up...  You are Ron Zook or maybe Mike Locksley
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 09:36:58 AM
Well there is the ability to spot talent also.For a while MD possesed that,is Tucker a done deal?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 12, 2020, 10:20:00 AM
I saw signs of Tucker building something at CU, especially on defense, so I'm actually glad he's no longer in the same conference/division as ASU.

That said, I hope those that raked Todd Graham over the coals for leaving Pitt after one season feel similarly about Tucker here. At least Graham left well over a month before LOI signing day instead of a week after.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 12:47:32 PM
This would also help, extra so in a zero sum game

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1227647677871140865?s=20

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1227647992162852865?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Temp430 on February 12, 2020, 12:48:30 PM
I wonder what Colorado is going to do?  Maybe they hire Dantonio?  It would be a huge step up in scenery and climate.  Plenty of competition in the PAC12...just not as harsh as the Big Ten East.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 12:49:36 PM
Hopefully they do everyone's ears a favor and just bring Joel Klatt home
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 12, 2020, 12:58:11 PM
Although he's unlikely to accept as he's better off staying in the NFL, CU has to at least try for Bieniemy. Once he declines, they should promote OC Darrin Chiaverini. A well liked former Buff player already on the staff, it's the safest move right now and might help mitigate any defections from the current players.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 12, 2020, 01:12:10 PM
I'd think the Buff gig would be enticing for up and comers - timing could be better.But might buy whoever another year as it's not his recruiting class
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 02:20:50 PM
That said, I hope those that raked Todd Graham over the coals for leaving Pitt after one season feel similarly about Tucker here. At least Graham left well over a month before LOI signing day instead of a week after.
I think that more had to do with him just darting, and mass texting his team once he was out IIRC?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 12, 2020, 02:30:11 PM
I think that more had to do with him just darting, and mass texting his team once he was out IIRC?
Yes, because the AD didn't allow him to meet with his players in person.

Tucker literally tweeted just a day or two ago how committed he was to CU and he was not entertaining MSU at all.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 12, 2020, 03:36:49 PM
https://twitter.com/Coach_mtucker/status/1226230203451465728?s=19


Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2020, 03:37:19 PM
This would also help, extra so in a zero sum game

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1227647677871140865?s=20

https://twitter.com/KySportsRadio/status/1227647992162852865?s=20

there's your Pelini / Stoops connection
the guy can recruit, can he coach?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: DevilFroggy on February 12, 2020, 03:38:56 PM
And for the record, I personally ain't THAT mad at Tucker. He's getting a hell of a raise and ending up at a school that puts much more support behind their football program.

I just ask for consistency regarding those who spat hellfire at other coaches who left their school after one season.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2020, 03:41:14 PM
I just ask for consistency regarding those who spat hellfire at other coaches who left their school after one season.
it's wrong to leave a program after one season, but it happens often enough that it doesn't seem a big deal any longer
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 12, 2020, 06:38:31 PM
I had kinda lost track of this guy after his stint at Marshall.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2020, 07:43:53 PM
Graham spewed about coaches being disloyal when he lost a few from Pitt to AZ and DickRod. Then he left for his dream job at ASU two weeks later. He proclaimed Tulsa his dream job, but left for his dream job at Pitt shortly thereafter. He left Rice after 1 year, for Tulsa. Patterns are patterns.

How long before he leaves Hawaii for his dream job?

He's liar, and a jerkoff. All wrapped into one.

Tucker has had 6 jobs in 8 years, and interviewed for a ton more along the way (including twice at his Alma Mater). Time will tell how long it takes for him to move on again, but if I'm MSU, I'm not looking to Tucker as another Dantonio.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 08:23:38 PM
I had kinda lost track of this guy after his stint at Marshall.
Huh?  He was never at Marshall
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 12, 2020, 08:26:03 PM

Tucker has had 6 jobs in 8 years, and interviewed for a ton more along the way (including twice at his Alma Mater). Time will tell how long it takes for him to move on again, but if I'm MSU, I'm not looking to Tucker as another Dantonio.
How many did he leave on his own volition, that weren't a promotion?  I think this is the first?

Either way, guys move all the time now, you simply have to be ok with that.  Either he does well enough to get a better job, or poorly enough to get fired.  I'd be ok with the former.  I certainly don't anticipate him being Dantonio or Ferentz.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 12, 2020, 08:34:27 PM
Huh?  He was never at Marshall
I appear to have mixed him up with Mark Snyder.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 12, 2020, 08:52:43 PM
striking resemblance 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 12, 2020, 10:12:02 PM
Yes, if they were standing side by side, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

No, both were OSU DCs from the Tressel era that went onto be HCs.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 13, 2020, 12:06:45 AM
Surprising hire, after Tucker withdrew from consideration.

If the late exit of Dantonio put MSU in a hole, think about how this affects Colorado. As others on here have said you can go down to D-III, or non-power 5, and find well-organized outstanding human beings, or Bielema who has a resume, and who would benefit from coaching at an FBS P-5 school.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 10:04:27 AM
the question is... what happened with Luke Fickell???

I'm guessing Tucker withdrew when MSU said, we have our man, and his name is Luke Fickell

Did Fickell back out at the end, or did MSU not have a clue as to what was going down?

I'm guessing Fickell burned them in the end
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 10:38:33 AM
I'm guessing Tucker withdrew when MSU said, we have our man, and his name is Luke Fickell

Tucker basically said as much.

Also sounds like Fickell had told them yes, then while the AD was conducting the interviews (including Tucker) that the BOT forced him to, Fickell changed his mind, or more to the point, people around him let him know Notre Dame was soon going to be an option.

Tucker knew the first interview was a charade, and I think the circle back, it was clear MSU was serious.  It sounds like if the BOT had just let Beekman go after his #1, and get it done, Fickell would be the coach.  Remains to be seen whether it worked out for the best or not.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 11:02:40 AM
will never know if it worked out for the best

hindsight isn't even 20/20

Good luck to Coach Tucker
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 12:13:33 PM
https://twitter.com/lgrw40/status/1227999039037333504?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Honestbuckeye on February 13, 2020, 01:03:11 PM
https://twitter.com/lgrw40/status/1227999039037333504?s=19
:s_laugh:
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 13, 2020, 07:27:53 PM
Where was Mark Dantonio at Mel Tucker's press conference? A dozen introductory speeches from across the MSU peanut gallery, to include Tom Izzo, but Mark Dantonio, who's kept himself around by saddling himself with a $1 Million salary post within the athletic department, can't be bothered to be present at Mel Tucker's press conference? It's as easy as taking forty seconds to get up and announce your support every step of the way. Was Mark even mentioned? Heard Saban's name and Tressel's name, but not the one guy that's driven the program for the past decade and a half.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2020, 07:30:03 PM
Mark Dantonio, who's kept himself around by saddling himself with a $1 Million salary post within the athletic department, can't bothered to be present at Mel Tucker's press conference?
Huh? 


Man, he must know some SERIOUS dirt if he's getting a cool million a year to do nothing and keep quiet after the way he announced his departure...
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 07:32:32 PM
It was in his contract that he'd get a $1 million athletic department advisor role once he retired
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 13, 2020, 07:48:38 PM
It was in his contract that he'd get a $1 million athletic department advisor role once he retired

Ahh, got it. So that predated everything.

Understood.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 07:50:10 PM
Yeah, it was basically an enticement for him to retire as MSUs coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 13, 2020, 08:42:24 PM
Honestly given Dantonio's stubborn streak and loyalty it's probably better if he's collecting his cash while sipping pina coladas on the beach somewhere
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 09:00:14 PM
Honestly given Dantonio's stubborn streak and loyalty it's probably better if he's collecting his cash while sipping pina coladas on the beach somewhere
I am a little concerned he'll have a post-retirement Lloyd Carr type effect in the athletic department
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: OrangeAfroMan on February 13, 2020, 09:16:46 PM
5.4 mil for a guy that went 5-7.  Mkay.  Apparently, the guy went on radio 3 times saying he was staying at CU the day he signed with MSU.  Fun.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 13, 2020, 10:01:08 PM
How do you rank the Spartan coaches in your lifetime?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 10:15:59 PM
I think it's pretty easy for mine (assuming just talking their time at MSU)...

1. Dantonio
2. Perles
3. Saban
4. JLS
5. Williams
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 10:57:34 PM
Couple MSU beat guys saying none of the staff is being retained.  I would have loved to keep Burton, but that's about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 13, 2020, 11:01:42 PM
Tucker bringing staff from CU?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 13, 2020, 11:06:12 PM
https://twitter.com/lgrw40/status/1227999039037333504?s=19
This is truly why hope springs eternal. 

A Saban guy with a high-end defensive background? I will hold my breath on an interesting offensive hire. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 13, 2020, 11:28:04 PM
This is truly why hope springs eternal.

A Saban guy with a high-end defensive background? I will hold my breath on an interesting offensive hire.
Literally, any reasonable OL coach hire would be better than Bollman.  There are a couple of coaches I wouldn't mind seeing retained, honestly, including the OC, but Bollman was #1 on my list of guys I didn't want back, whether or not Dantonio returned.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 14, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
FWIW, the Kansas Associate HC/RB coach resigned last night, and said he got offered a new opportunity.  So maybe related/maybe not?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 14, 2020, 11:23:37 PM
Couple MSU beat guys saying none of the staff is being retained.  I would have loved to keep Burton, but that's about it.
Was reported that Burton had taken the DC job at Indiana, but now we've got new MSU recruits thanking Tucker and Burton for the offer tonight.  So maybe staying?

Vince Marrow, who turned down UM and Georgia last year got a big pay raise to stay at Kentucky.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 15, 2020, 03:34:07 AM
Literally, any reasonable OL coach hire would be better than Bollman.  There are a couple of coaches I wouldn't mind seeing retained, honestly, including the OC, but Bollman was #1 on my list of guys I didn't want back, whether or not Dantonio returned.
That's one guy who kept getting employed beyond his abilities.He should be grateful that reality was kept at bay for as long as it was.I've read some Spartan posters say "Buckeye Fans warned us".He's had 18 yrs along for the ride at tOSU/MSU making 6 figures - that's a win.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 15, 2020, 04:07:32 PM
Tressell and Burton retained.  Great news.

https://twitter.com/MSU_Football/status/1228782512467394560?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 15, 2020, 06:12:51 PM
Tucker bringing his OL coach with him from Colorado.

Rumors he's targeting Cincinnati DC Marcus Freeman as his DC.  Which oddly, Freeman was the favorite to take over at Cincinnati when it was assumed Fickell was coming to MSU,
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 15, 2020, 06:25:32 PM
Honestly given Dantonio's stubborn streak and loyalty it's probably better if he's collecting his cash while sipping pina coladas on the beach somewhere


Dantonio is a costly example of the type of older state employee who decides to spend the last half-decade before retirement taking up the office with the view while doing nothing, fully believing their harder-worked first twenty years has earned everybody else's good graces to wield authority while taking on zero responsibility. Another do-nothing, rest-on-his-laurels paperweight finding a way to use employment as a form of paid retirement.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 15, 2020, 07:49:08 PM
I doubt all of that,there was a perect storm of circumstances that sent the program reeling.Not really buying he didn't give a crap on top of suspensions,dismissals there were injuries.He may have grown catatonic not complacent after fate tied his hands
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 15, 2020, 08:08:58 PM

Dantonio is a costly example of the type of older state employee who decides to spend the last half-decade before retirement taking up the office with the view while doing nothing, fully believing their harder-worked first twenty years has earned everybody else's good graces to wield authority while taking on zero responsibility. Another do-nothing, rest-on-his-laurels paperweight finding a way to use employment as a form of paid retirement.
Also, he apparently stole your lunch money once as hard as you've been dumping on him for years.  He can afford to reimburse now BTW
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2020, 08:27:35 AM

Dantonio is a costly example of the type of older state employee who decides to spend the last half-decade before retirement taking up the office with the view while doing nothing, fully believing their harder-worked first twenty years has earned everybody else's good graces to wield authority while taking on zero responsibility. Another do-nothing, rest-on-his-laurels paperweight finding a way to use employment as a form of paid retirement.
This is an interesting example in sports of how we tend to make stuff up to connect dots. We also have very little ability to recognize outliers or situations.

MSU played over it head for a while, then it regressed, as often happens. And if he quit after 2015, someone would be lamenting that he loaded up and then left the cupboard bare. In the end, not much ends well. Otherwise it wouldn’t end.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2020, 09:33:52 AM
 In the end, not much ends well. Otherwise it wouldn’t end.
A rather stout and accurate take
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 16, 2020, 10:10:28 AM
A rather stout and accurate take
Lifted shamelessly from a Tom Cruise movie, but it is very useful in this sport. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 16, 2020, 11:21:39 AM
Ah a Henny Youngman fan,good,good
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 16, 2020, 12:39:41 PM
Not really true though. FB games often have good endings, as do books and movies. And they all have to end in only a handful of hours. Even the Never Ending Story.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 17, 2020, 04:38:54 PM
Bringing his OC and OL coach with him.  Retaining DL and LB coach (Burton and Tressell), and rumored to be bringing Barnett back from FSU for DBs.

https://twitter.com/adamcm777/status/1229496286711177216?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 18, 2020, 12:08:51 AM
Bringing his OC and OL coach with him.  Retaining DL and LB coach (Burton and Tressell), and rumored to be bringing Barnett back from FSU for DBs.

https://twitter.com/adamcm777/status/1229496286711177216?s=19
I need to dig in on these new hires. From what I looked at earlier in the week about the OC, kinda run heavy with QBs not putting up interesting numbers. 

The OL guy was at UNC for a while. I need to see how far back the OL numbers I rely on go.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 18, 2020, 02:16:54 PM
Looks like MSU alum Courtney Hawkins, who played in the NFL from 1992-2000, and is currently the head coach at Flint Beecher will be hired as WR coach.

There was some buzz about another MSU alum, Sedrick Irvin, who is currently a HS head coach in Florida, being the RB coach, but there's been no news on that front for days.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 19, 2020, 09:23:07 AM
Looks like Jacub Panasiuk is not a fan of the coaching hire.  Tweeted that if coach Bullough wasn't retained, he was gone.  Took it down, but now removed MSU football player from his bio.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 19, 2020, 09:40:39 PM
Looks like MSU alum Courtney Hawkins, who played in the NFL from 1992-2000, and is currently the head coach at Flint Beecher will be hired as WR coach.
Confirmed

https://twitter.com/MSU_Football/status/1230279820745101312?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on February 20, 2020, 12:12:02 AM
Mel Tucker is worth $1.2M per year more than Dantonio. Boy, he must be a really good coach to be worth 25% more than Dantonio.
Plus, he built a provision into his contract to extend his contract by one year for each year MSU is placed on NCAA probation if based upon incident(s) occurring under the previous coaching staff.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/13/michigan-state-football-coach-mel-tuckers-contract-details/4752468002/ (https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2020/02/13/michigan-state-football-coach-mel-tuckers-contract-details/4752468002/)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Brutus Buckeye on February 20, 2020, 06:02:59 AM
Sanctions, and a coach with a losing record. Sounds awesome.

Maybe it will be like a double negative, and become a positive.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MrNubbz on February 20, 2020, 08:47:10 AM
Hopefully for MSU it'll work out.But ya crazy to give 1.2 mil more per than the best Spartan coach since Duffy.Not that CMD is hurting for coin.So moving forward....
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2020, 10:14:04 AM
That's obviously not how things work.

Michigan had to pay Jim Harbaugh enough not to take an NFL job.

Ohio State is paying Ryan Day like a guy who had no previous coaching experience.

Bobby Bowden is one of the greatest coaches of all time.  So should MSU pay him $10 million a year right now?  Obviously not.  If you pay for what someone did, rather than what you think they will do, that's where you make terrible management decisions.

MSU was left coachless in February.  The guy who they thought took the job, changed his mind, so they had circle back to a guy they had "interviewed" while he openly knew he wasn't getting the job.  They had to give him the money to jump ship in February, and enough money to get assistants to do the same.

MSU is in a division with 3 of the biggest spenders in college football.  Even if they are overpaying now, the signal it sends is that they are taking it as seriously as UM, OSU and PSU.  The optics of that alone, in the eyes of assistants and recruits, helps make it worth it.  And it sends a signal to season ticket holders.  I personally know of three people who weren't planning on renewing their season tickets, who now are.  Did you see the crowds against Illinois?  Against Maryland?  The stadium was empty.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2020, 12:05:25 PM
Saw a story Yesterday or Tuesday from the mom of the recruit that Dantonio said [under oath] that Curtis Blackwell stayed in the car and didn't go into the recruit's home...

(https://i.imgur.com/463CPnP.png)
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/18/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-violate-ncaa-rules/4798101002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/18/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-violate-ncaa-rules/4798101002/)

Looks to me like he perjured himself. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 20, 2020, 12:14:35 PM
Saw a story Yesterday or Tuesday from the mom of the recruit that Dantonio said [under oath] that Curtis Blackwell stayed in the car and didn't go into the recruit's home...

(https://i.imgur.com/463CPnP.png)
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/18/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-violate-ncaa-rules/4798101002/ (https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state-university/2020/02/18/michigan-state-spartans-mark-dantonio-violate-ncaa-rules/4798101002/)

Looks to me like he perjured himself.
I doubt it.  Typically perjury requires lying about something that matters, and it is tough for me to figure out how whether he was sitting in a car or house on some random recruiting trip is somehow relevant to the case.  
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 20, 2020, 12:54:46 PM
That's obviously not how things work.

Michigan had to pay Jim Harbaugh enough not to take an NFL job.

Ohio State is paying Ryan Day like a guy who had no previous coaching experience.

Bobby Bowden is one of the greatest coaches of all time.  So should MSU pay him $10 million a year right now?  Obviously not.  If you pay for what someone did, rather than what you think they will do, that's where you make terrible management decisions.

MSU was left coachless in February.  The guy who they thought took the job, changed his mind, so they had circle back to a guy they had "interviewed" while he openly knew he wasn't getting the job.  They had to give him the money to jump ship in February, and enough money to get assistants to do the same.

MSU is in a division with 3 of the biggest spenders in college football.  Even if they are overpaying now, the signal it sends is that they are taking it as seriously as UM, OSU and PSU.  The optics of that alone, in the eyes of assistants and recruits, helps make it worth it.  And it sends a signal to season ticket holders.  I personally know of three people who weren't planning on renewing their season tickets, who now are.  Did you see the crowds against Illinois?  Against Maryland?  The stadium was empty.
The last part is interesting.

If you pay a person less, you’re not serious, that looks bad. It’ll turn on him in time unless they’re getting 9-3/10-2 somewhat often, I.e beating one of those three every couple seasons.

And if he does that, he gets paid more.

No wonder these departments can’t get a handle on buyouts.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: betarhoalphadelta on February 20, 2020, 02:25:55 PM
I doubt it.  Typically perjury requires lying about something that matters, and it is tough for me to figure out how whether he was sitting in a car or house on some random recruiting trip is somehow relevant to the case. 
I am not a lawyer, but given that it was in a deposition about Blackwell's wrongful termination suit, if Blackwell was alleging that Dantonio was breaking NCAA guidelines by bringing him on recruiting visits and Dantonio denied it under oath, I'd say that's material to Blackwell's suit and therefore it matters.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: MaximumSam on February 20, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
I am not a lawyer, but given that it was in a deposition about Blackwell's wrongful termination suit, if Blackwell was alleging that Dantonio was breaking NCAA guidelines by bringing him on recruiting visits and Dantonio denied it under oath, I'd say that's material to Blackwell's suit and therefore it matters.

My more cynical take is that Blackwell's attorneys thought they would be able to get a big settlement by threatening NCAA violations and MSU called their bluff
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2020, 04:33:30 PM
Hiring away Wisconsin's WR coach/passing game coordinator.

No official position announced, but rumored to be TE coach.  You probably unintentionally absorb more TE coaching knowledge coaching WRs at Wisconsin than you do actually coaching TEs anywhere else.

And Harlon Barnett, who left to be be DC at FSU, is back as DBs coach, as he was under Dantonio, first at Cincinnati, then at MSU, from 2004-2017.  We had some pretty good secondaries in there.

So it seems like we retained our DL coach, retained our DC as LB coach, brought back our pre-2018 DB coach, and completely flipped the offensive staff.  Basically a best realistic case scenario from a staffing standpoint.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2020, 04:38:33 PM
The Sedrick Irvin as RB coach is picking back up as well.  He's been coaching in Florida for a while now, so it wouldn't hurt to have him and Barnett with Florida ties for recruiting purposes.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
Hiring away Wisconsin's WR coach/passing game coordinator.

No official position announced, but rumored to be TE coach.  You probably unintentionally absorb more TE coaching knowledge coaching WRs at Wisconsin than you do actually coaching TEs anywhere else.

Looks like the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal was more interested in being first than being right.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 20, 2020, 06:55:45 PM
Connor Heyward coming back.

https://twitter.com/chrissolari/status/1230638918414065669?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 20, 2020, 08:32:01 PM
The Milwaukee paper has been a little bad lately.

See the Kobe King story that blew the hell out of everything... And was wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Benthere2 on February 20, 2020, 10:54:28 PM
Jay Johnson announced as Michigan State’s new offensive coordinator and QBs coach

Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2020, 08:16:47 AM
From Potrykus at the Milwaukee paper, as posted on Buckyville and his twitter:

I've explained the matter on Twitter and will here.

1) I didn't post the story.
2) I had no knowledge the story was posted until I returned home after getting my mom settled in.
3) I deleted the story as soon as I saw it on the site and called work to inquire how a story that wasn't ready for publication found its way onto our site.
4) Eric has given you a solid explanation on how reporters handle such matters and he is 100% correct but I'll fill in some details on this case.

I was at lunch with my mom when I received a text regarding TG and MSU. I alerted an editor via email that I had received a tip and would try to track down/confirm. I reached out to several people, including a reporter who covers MSU football. What this person knew was that MSU was getting close to announcing a new hire, today. He wasn't certain of the ID. I only had my phone so I typed up a few graphs and sent to an editor via email noting I was not home and it was possible something could break while I was on the road. The graphs were sent so we could have something to post if MSU announced before I could confirm/get home.

As Eric noted, this is done all the time by reporters. I've had recruiting stories ready to go while on vacation so if the desk couldn't reach me and the kid announced via Twitter we could post quickly.



I also had to write a story last summer while in Arizona just in case Howard (edit: Moore) didn't survive the heart attack. Yea, that was a blast getting a call from someone back home who shared with me just how serious Howard's condition was. I wrote the story from the hotel lobby and sent it to work via email. We had to be ready in case something horrible happened while I was gone.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 21, 2020, 01:34:14 PM
Looks like the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal was more interested in being first than being right.
Well now it's confirmed.  They were just premature.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 21, 2020, 02:36:27 PM
This pisses me off. A lot.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 21, 2020, 08:57:04 PM
This pisses me off. A lot.
For which reason?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2020, 09:04:59 AM
A good coach and great recruiter leaving to go work for a conference foe. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2020, 10:41:34 AM
Holy crap!

$1.1 Million/year for a TE coach? 

Hell, I'd have left too. That is just stupid money to buy a coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 22, 2020, 10:43:08 AM
it's a bargain if it works
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 22, 2020, 10:47:22 AM
As I said upthread, I'm not a fan of Tucker. I'll give him 3 years at MSU, tops.

Georgia's defense the year before Tucker arrived gave up 220 points. In his three years at Georgia (2016-2018), his defenses gave up 312, 246 and 269. Last year, without him, UGA gave up 176. 

The year before Tucker, Colorado gave up 327 points. Under Tucker, they gagged up 382.

On January 18, 2013 Tucker was named defensive coordinator of the Chicago Bears.[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Tucker#cite_note-10)

Following one of the worst defensive seasons in Bears' history in 2013, Tucker was criticized by the media.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Tucker#cite_note-11) As a result, the team fired two of Tucker's assistant coaches, linebackers coach Tim Tibesar and defensive line coach Mike Phair.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Tucker#cite_note-12) The Bears replaced them with Paul Pasqualoni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Pasqualoni) as defensive line coach and Reggie Herring (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Herring) as linebackers coach.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Tucker#cite_note-13)



On January 20, 2015, following another record-setting low defensive season for the Bears, Tucker was replaced by former San Francisco 49ers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_49ers) defensive coordinator Vic Fangio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vic_Fangio).



Good luck with that.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 22, 2020, 11:52:46 AM
it's a bargain if it works
It's one of those things that signals early faith, and if you're not averaging 1-2 against the best in the division by Year 4 or 5, it's an albatross. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 22, 2020, 12:05:13 PM
Jay Johnson announced as Michigan State’s new offensive coordinator and QBs coach
A history of Jay Johnson, who has been OC at a few different spots
National rank in PPG and Yards per play
2005 Southern Miss 41st, 68th
2006 Southern Miss 51st, 62nd
2007 Southern Miss 61st, 66th (38th in points per drive)
2011 Louisiana 32nd, 50th (62nd)
2012 Louisiana 24th, 7th (31st)
2013 Louisiana 33rd, 36th (34th)
2014 Louisiana 61st,49th (44th)
2015 Louisiana 83rd, 74th (93rd)
2016 Minnesota 63rd, 103rd (74th)
2019 Colorado 100th, 90th (78th)

Going with SP+ would be hard because it measures overall quality, which dings non-awesome mid-majors, something that oft doesn't speak to coaching quality. Gazing at the profile, it's defiantly more run-heavy with middling at best QB stats. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: CatsbyAZ on February 22, 2020, 01:01:12 PM
Also, he apparently stole your lunch money once as hard as you've been dumping on him for years.  He can afford to reimburse now BTW


So since Dantonio stole my lunch money, can we clarify whether Dantonio deserves more immunity from criticism than Bielema or Pelini? Wisconsin fans have no problem fielding or sharing all things critical of Bielema despite his successes in Madison. Same with Nebraska fans and Pelini. Was is a personality pitfall that drove their fans away? Like Pelini’s lack of sideline demeanor and manners with the media? Dantonio is more press savvy, but I guess that can go without criticism when Dantonio doesn’t even show up to his replacement hire’s introductory press conference even though he’s sitting on a seven figure salary within the very athletic department he quit on the week of national signing day.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 22, 2020, 01:58:49 PM

So since Dantonio stole my lunch money, can we clarify whether Dantonio deserves more immunity from criticism than Bielema or Pelini? Wisconsin fans have no problem fielding or sharing all things critical of Bielema despite his successes in Madison. Same with Nebraska fans and Pelini. Was is a personality pitfall that drove their fans away? Like Pelini’s lack of sideline demeanor and manners with the media? Dantonio is more press savvy, but I guess that can go without criticism when Dantonio doesn’t even show up to his replacement hire’s introductory press conference even though he’s sitting on a seven figure salary within the very athletic department he quit on the week of national signing day.
MSU fans criticize Dantonio plenty.

After deciding he needed more talent to take another step, he went after bigger fish in recruiting, and brought in a supposed big game recruiting coordinator in Blackwell.  That class turned out to be filled with criminals, and Blackwell was the one covering for them, and it was a total disaster.  Instead of deciding that he made some mistakes there, he simply decided that's part of the territory with those level of recruits/recruiters, and he wasn't going to do that again.  He wasn't sitting back, collecting a paycheck, he just decided he'd go all in with people he trusted on his staff, and 2/3* kids who could be coached up.  IMO that was a terrible miscalculation, and ultimately his downfall.  He needed to infuse his coaching staff with new ideas, and he didn't.  There was a plan for him to retire after 2020, and he was mad that the AD jumped the gun, and hired a search firm to start a preliminary review now, which is just good due diligence.  And Dantonio was petty about it, and instead just retired immediately, and put the school in a horrible situation, where they had to overpay to assemble a staff in February with little time.  Did they overpay?  Yes.  But considering how bad the situation already looked, particularly after Fickell changed his mind, how much further damage would be done by a long drawn out public search?  So yes, MD's stubborness and pettiness deserve much criticism.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 22, 2020, 02:00:32 PM
A history of Jay Johnson, who has been OC at a few different spots
National rank in PPG and Yards per play
2005 Southern Miss 41st, 68th
2006 Southern Miss 51st, 62nd
2007 Southern Miss 61st, 66th (38th in points per drive)
2011 Louisiana 32nd, 50th (62nd)
2012 Louisiana 24th, 7th (31st)
2013 Louisiana 33rd, 36th (34th)
2014 Louisiana 61st,49th (44th)
2015 Louisiana 83rd, 74th (93rd)
2016 Minnesota 63rd, 103rd (74th)
2019 Colorado 100th, 90th (78th)

Going with SP+ would be hard because it measures overall quality, which dings non-awesome mid-majors, something that oft doesn't speak to coaching quality. Gazing at the profile, it's defiantly more run-heavy with middling at best QB stats.
If I had to rank my happiness with each of the hires, this would be last, but honestly, considering the timing, I'm happy with whatever.  Had this all occurred in December, and we still got Johnson, eh, that would be very head scratching.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Benthere2 on February 24, 2020, 05:49:28 PM
Jay Johnson went to the same High School as I did (many years after I did)
he actually started a head of Kurt Warner in College
he did not have a chance at Minnesota when he was there as he took over for 1 year and then the U went differently with Tracey Clayes and brought in Fleck

I would bet he does a decent job there at MSU
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 24, 2020, 06:30:38 PM
It's one of those things that signals early faith, and if you're not averaging 1-2 against the best in the division by Year 4 or 5, it's an albatross.
just don't give him the Ferentz style buyout clause
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 24, 2020, 08:11:16 PM
Hired one of his former GAs as RB coach.  Would have really preferred Sedric Irvin.  Not a fan of this hire
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2020, 07:50:42 AM
Had to go cheap after blowing his load on a TE coach who never coached TE's?

(I think he hired his insurance plan for OC when he hired Gilmore)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 10:40:23 AM
I wasn't overly impressed by Gilmore while he was coaching under Watson at Nebraska, but he was merely the WRs coach.

and of course that was many years ago.

Good guy, organized enough he was put in charge of recruiting
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on February 25, 2020, 11:18:04 AM
I wasn't overly impressed by Gilmore while he was coaching under Watson at Nebraska, but he was merely the WRs coach.

and of course that was many years ago.

Good guy, organized enough he was put in charge of recruiting
This is why he was hired at MSU. He was a good closer for UW. Mom's liked him.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 11:30:26 AM
yup, he's obviously worked with many good OCs over his career, just not sure he's good OC material
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: bayareabadger on February 25, 2020, 12:50:03 PM
just don't give him the Ferentz style buyout clause
There’s an irony that for as much as folks lamented that, he’s averaged 9.4 wins the past five years. 
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on February 25, 2020, 01:10:59 PM
that's great, they didn't have to pay him, but what if he had averaged 4.9 wins the past 5 seasons

it was foolish
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on February 27, 2020, 01:43:58 PM
Hiring Kansas State DC Scottie Hazelton, which I believe rounds out the staff.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: Hawkinole on March 01, 2020, 02:12:44 AM
Sometimes it is too late to make reparations for the man, but not to late for mankind. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/funeral-for-ex-michigan-state-football-coach-had-surprise-visitor-former-player-he-once-ordered-to-stay-away/ar-BB10zl82?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/funeral-for-ex-michigan-state-football-coach-had-surprise-visitor-former-player-he-once-ordered-to-stay-away/ar-BB10zl82?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: FearlessF on March 01, 2020, 09:34:22 AM
good story
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 01, 2020, 12:47:05 AM
Looks like Aussie punter Jack Boumeester has left, and we added a UTEP grad transfer to seemingly take over the spot.

He was #12 of 14 in net punting in CUSA last year, so...?
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 01, 2020, 02:12:53 PM
Former starting LT Cole Chewins, who missed all of 2019 with a back injury, and was eligible for a medical redshirt, has opted not to pursue it, and has moved on.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 13, 2020, 11:18:54 AM
Example 1,653,968 of how a program that built itself by finding the inches, just seemed to stop paying attention to any details by then end.  You can't play in a division where in any year, at best, you'll have the 4th most NFL talent, and do this kind of thing

https://twitter.com/mwenzel2/status/1249687040792371201?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: 847badgerfan on April 13, 2020, 11:30:09 AM
That is terrible. They really screwed that kid.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on April 13, 2020, 08:19:20 PM
Not too shabby for a mechanical engineering major

https://twitter.com/MSU_Football/status/1249802418046590977?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on July 09, 2020, 11:51:22 AM
In summation, Rocky Lombardi went deep more often than 92% of FBS QBs, despite being perhaps the worst deep ball passer in the nation

https://twitter.com/CFBFilmRoom/status/1281241397660725248?s=20
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on July 21, 2020, 07:12:14 PM
Interesting potential impact add.  Also may never see the field

https://twitter.com/mwenzel2/status/1285690532098912258?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 05, 2020, 01:02:46 PM
Jacub Panasiuk announces he is redshirting this year, to return in 2021.

Obviously not Bateman or Parsons, but, along with Naquan Jones, the only sure things on the DL.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 05, 2020, 01:04:19 PM
That is terrible. They really screwed that kid.
Circling back to this, apparently he's actually a mid-level baseball prospect, and that's the pro career he'll be pursuing.  So either way, he's not playing 5 seasons.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on August 08, 2020, 01:36:05 PM
3rd MSU player

https://twitter.com/marcel1lewis/status/1292149199828652039?s=19

...and 4th

https://twitter.com/JustinStevens87/status/1292150952745738243?s=19
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on September 16, 2020, 02:16:14 PM
3rd MSU player

https://twitter.com/marcel1lewis/status/1292149199828652039?s=19

Marcel Lewis has now opted back in, after deciding he was comfortable with the testing protocols.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 13, 2020, 04:23:08 PM
WR C.J. Hayes, who had offseason foot surgery back in February announced today he's having a 2nd surgery and will miss the season.

His 13 receptions and 141 yards was 2nd, behind Tre Mosley among returning WRs, after Darrell Stewart graduated, Cody White departed early for the NFL, and Julian Barnett switched to CB fulltime.

The return of a healthy Jalen Nailor probably relegated him to a rotation role anyway, but this is a WR group that is already very short on experience.
Title: Re: 2020 Michigan State Offseason Thread
Post by: ELA on October 19, 2020, 12:31:47 PM
Luke Fulton and Charles Willekes have been suspended indefinitely following a September 8 fight, that resulted in misdemeanor assault charges for both.  Not sure how it was kept under wraps for nearly 2 months, but they've been suspended indefinitely from all team activities ever since.  Both are redshirt freshmen, and Willekes is a walkon, although Fulton was expected to be in the two deep at ILB.