The UNT Fake Fair Catch

[Kris60]

Heard Greg McElroy being pretty critical of UNT for doing that.  Basically said it was bush league.  I hadn’t really thought about it that way but I can see that POV, especially with all the focus on player safety.

I remember covering punts in HS and when you are running down the field, trying to fend off a blocker, and bodies are between you and the return man you can’t always see if a fair catch is signaled.

Was that a bush league play by UNT?

[MrNubbz]

Play to you hear the whistle,coaches gotta pay attention to.The return man did a good job of holding the ball high but not high enough to be confused with a fair catch

[MarqHusker]

Terrell Buckley (FSU) did this against Syracuse I remember in about '89 or '90.   I don't remember his PR TD return being as uncontested as this deke by UNT though.  Play to whistle.  

[Kris60]

Yeah, I get the play to the whistle argument too.  But we’ve all also seen PR get obliterated on fair catches before the ref had an opportunity to blow the whistle because a cover guy just didn’t see him signal fair catch.  And the announcers act outraged and the dude is basically made out to be a savage.

I played with a guy in high school who absolutely knocked a PR out cold on a play like that but legitimately didn’t see the fair catch signaled for.  I think if a guy covering a punt is tied up with a blocker coming down the field or has his view obstructed then he will naturally pull up if he sees the returner field the ball and just stand there.

I think this is especially true given the era we are in now where sometimes just hard hits are being flagged. I think what UNT did was perfectly legal but it was also kinda weak sauce.  I also think we might see a PR get beheaded this year because someone is unsure if a fair catch was called and doesn’t want to be duped like the Arky guys were.

[rolltidefan]

first off, as a bama fan i love gmac. but as a media personality, he's at bit over the top on a lot of his takes. seems he's trying to be a bit of a contrarian oftentimes.

as for the play, you play until the whistle. arky had a dude standing right in front of him, literally asking why hasn't the whistle blown (was in artcile i read yesterday). at minimum, grab him and make the refs blow whistles again.

is it kinda bush league? yeah, it is. but so is wr pick plays, and linemen 3 yd downfield, and fake spikes, etc. they're cheap plays to take advantage of people not paying attention (be it players, refs, or coaches), but they're part of the game. gotta have your head in the game.

[MrNubbz]

Good Post " at minimum, grab him and make the refs blow whistles again." - did not think of that

[medinabuckeye1]

I didn't see this one so I don't know the exact situation but I think there should be a rule change to make it clear that if the returner takes any action that could reasonably confused for a fair catch then a fair catch is declared and the ball is spotted where the catch was made.  

I do not remember who was playing but I saw a game a few years ago where the returner partially raised his hand, the coverage team pulled up, then the returner caught the ball and took off and the refs let the return stand.  On the next punt if I were on the coverage team I think I would tackle him unless I was 10,000% certain that the ref blew the whistle.  That could be dangerous!  

[Kris60]

first off, as a bama fan i love gmac. but as a media personality, he's at bit over the top on a lot of his takes. seems he's trying to be a bit of a contrarian oftentimes.

as for the play, you play until the whistle. arky had a dude standing right in front of him, literally asking why hasn't the whistle blown (was in artcile i read yesterday). at minimum, grab him and make the refs blow whistles again.

is it kinda bush league? yeah, it is. but so is wr pick plays, and linemen 3 yd downfield, and fake spikes, etc. they're cheap plays to take advantage of people not paying attention (be it players, refs, or coaches), but they're part of the game. gotta have your head in the game.

I think the difference between the fair catch and the other plays you listed is the fair catch is in place for player safety.  Again, I totally see the POV of playing through the whistle but the fact that UNT took advantage of a player safety rule just seems kinda weak, IMO.

[847badgerfan]

I didn't see this one so I don't know the exact situation but I think there should be a rule change to make it clear that if the returner takes any action that could reasonably confused for a fair catch then a fair catch is declared and the ball is spotted where the catch was made.  

I do not remember who was playing but I saw a game a few years ago where the returner partially raised his hand, the coverage team pulled up, then the returner caught the ball and took off and the refs let the return stand.  On the next punt if I were on the coverage team I think I would tackle him unless I was 10,000% certain that the ref blew the whistle.  That could be dangerous!  

It already exists.

[fezzador]

I'm guessing we'll be seeing a rule change regarding this for the 2019 season.  While technically within the rules, it was kind of a cheap move, and UNT would have won handily anyway.

[ELA]

Yeah, the way they whistle everything on defenders now, I don't like it.  Hell, the coverage guy bumps into him incidentally, he's probably flagged for 15.  If you are going to allow that, then "not hearing the whistle" should be a legitimate excuse to blow up a guy who does call for a fair catch.

Same reason I never found it "saavy" when a QB running towards the sidelines turns up field.  If you want to take even borderline hits out of the game, sprinting at the sideline should count as much as giving yourself up as sliding does.

[OrangeAfroMan]

It's no more 'bush league' than paying a team a million bucks to come into your house and curb-stomp you.  No whistle?  Destroy him.  

Those 4 Razorbacks standing around the guy wondering about the whistle are displaying why they're at Arkansas in the first place instead of somewhere better.

[NorthernOhioBuckeye]

I didn't see this one so I don't know the exact situation but I think there should be a rule change to make it clear that if the returner takes any action that could reasonably confused for a fair catch then a fair catch is declared and the ball is spotted where the catch was made.  

I do not remember who was playing but I saw a game a few years ago where the returner partially raised his hand, the coverage team pulled up, then the returner caught the ball and took off and the refs let the return stand.  On the next punt if I were on the coverage team I think I would tackle him unless I was 10,000% certain that the ref blew the whistle.  That could be dangerous!  

A good back judge will move himself in front of the PR after they signal fair catch and the ball is secured, to prevent the KT members from attempting to hit the PR. 

As for this play, if the KT member just grabs the guy, even if it was a fair catch, there will be no foul as the refs will determine that the KT member didn't see the fair catch but also didn't take advantage of the situation to justify attempted murder. 

[rolltidefan]

Ncaa considering make immediate rule on the fake

https://247sports.com/college/north-texas/Article/NCAA-North-Texas-Arkansas-touchdown-fake-fair-catch-punt-rule-change-122046089/

I’m not a fan of these reaction rules. But I do understand the safety of it.