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Topic: Talk of Eliminating Divisions

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rolltidefan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2018, 02:32:34 PM »
11 teams. No divisions. Full round robin. No CCG.
would never work ;D

847badgerfan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2018, 02:33:18 PM »
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

LittlePig

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2018, 02:49:19 PM »
So how would this have worked out in previous years?  Yes, I know the schedules would have been different but just for the sake of argument

2018 CCG: OSU vs. MICH
OSU 8-1
Mich 8-1
NW 8-1
Not sure how the tiebreaker would work, but guessing NW would lose the tiebreaker
.

2017 CCG Wisc vs. OSU
Wisc 9-0
OSU 8-1
PSU, MSU, NW 7-2
.

2016 CCG PSU vs. OSU
PSU 8-1
OSU 8-1
Mich 7-2
Wisc 7-2
.

2015 CCG Iowa vs. MSU
Iowa 8-0
MSU 7-1
OSU 7-1
MSU would win the tiebreaker based on H2H win
.

2014  CCG OSU vs. MSU/Wisc
OSU 8-0
Wisc 7-1
MSU 7-1
No clue how they would do the tiebreaker for this one.  Maybe Medina can figure it out.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 02:55:36 PM by LittlePig »

ELA

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2018, 02:58:35 PM »
Problem is you'd probably have to revert to the old 11 team tiebreakers that accounted for not all teams playing each other.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2018, 03:54:08 PM »
I am a little confused.  The article states it would have been better if OSU and Mich played in the CCG.  But they did play, just a week prior to that.  
If you accept the idea that OSU, Mich, and PSU are the 3 best teams, they all did play each other, so what's the problem?  
The problem, to the extent that there is one, is that the CG ended up NOT being a springboard for the winner into the CFP.  
Imagine for a minute that Michigan had beaten Notre Dame.  They'd have finished 11-1 with no CG.  Ohio State would have finished 12-1 with a shiny B1G trophy but both might have been left out of the CFP at least in part because Ohio State's CG opponent wasn't impressive to the committee.  Now if they had played each other in the CG then the winner would have been 12-1 with a B1G Championship and some very impressive wins.  That winner likely gets in ahead of even Oklahoma.  They certainly don't end up ranked behind 2-loss non-Champion Georgia.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2018, 03:58:01 PM »
2014  CCG OSU vs. MSU/Wisc
OSU 8-0
Wisc 7-1
MSU 7-1
No clue how they would do the tiebreaker for this one.  Maybe Medina can figure it out.
Typically the B1G's first tiebreaker is H2H but MSU and UW didn't play in 2014.  After that the next one is usually record against the best team(s) in the conference.  That would be 8-0 Ohio State.  The Badgers didn't play Ohio State so they are 0-0 but MSU lost to the Buckeyes so they are 0-1, Wisconsin goes.  

mcwterps1

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2018, 04:04:13 PM »
Haven't read any of this thread, but saw this discussion elsewhere.

Since re-alignment, I've always believed that there should be 16 team conferences, 7 games on your side, 1 cross-over being your "rival", and then 4 OOC. 

Then, have 6 power conferences, and extra playoff games.

This could be done, and would eliminate conferences being left out.

I saw this coming, as did many others, when you have 5 power conferences, and only 4 spots.  Add to the fact that Notre freaking Dame gets to ride the wave of a weak ACC as well, so they can get up for only a handful of games, and slide into the playoff picture.

Something needs to be done, because the B1G is one of, if not the strongest conference top to bottom, and "we're" (because I don't ride the accomplishments of others) left out again.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 04:33:54 PM »
Hell no to moving "The Game"
I agree as long as tOSU and M are in the same division but I absolutely hate the idea of a rematch played one week after the first game . . .

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2018, 05:14:20 PM »
I don't mean to get all cloak-and-dagger, but is there something the B10 and/or SEC could do to hasten either the BigXII or ACC's downfall?
If we had 4 "P5" conferences, all of this would be moot.  



As I've said in the past, the SEC and B10 are safe, due to health.  The PAC is safe due to geography.  But on a long-enough timeline, both the XII and the ACC won't last.  I believe the ACC is the stronger of the two, and a conference comprised of the best from both would be legit.  ND's tie with the ACC only makes me more certain they'll outlast the XII.



With 4 big-boy conferences, you'd be able to alternate which conference you played OOC, you could sign 5-year agreements, stuff like that.  
Anyway, if I was a person in power in college football, I would explore getting the XII and ACC to clash sooner rather than later, because if one sort of slowly dies over time, it will drag everything down for a spell.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2018, 05:22:35 PM »
The ACC effectively killed the Big East. Not so sure they could accomplish same with the Big 12, which has already survived raids by both the SEC and Big Ten.


What would kill the Big 12 (and would have 8 years ago) is if the PAC took on Texas and OU (and maybe 2 others). That would be the end.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2018, 05:34:21 PM »
I don't mean to get all cloak-and-dagger, but is there something the B10 and/or SEC could do to hasten either the BigXII or ACC's downfall?
If we had 4 "P5" conferences, all of this would be moot.  



As I've said in the past, the SEC and B10 are safe, due to health.  The PAC is safe due to geography.  But on a long-enough timeline, both the XII and the ACC won't last.  I believe the ACC is the stronger of the two, and a conference comprised of the best from both would be legit.  ND's tie with the ACC only makes me more certain they'll outlast the XII.



With 4 big-boy conferences, you'd be able to alternate which conference you played OOC, you could sign 5-year agreements, stuff like that.  
Anyway, if I was a person in power in college football, I would explore getting the XII and ACC to clash sooner rather than later, because if one sort of slowly dies over time, it will drag everything down for a spell.
I'm not sure how it will ultimately come about because the newer and more complex conference contracts make it more complicated than it used to be but I think that in the long run the B12 will die and ND will more-than-likely be forced to join the ACC more completely.  
On the issue of Notre Dame:  
It would probably be good for both the Irish and the ACC if they came up with some kind of arrangement where Notre Dame could replace the weaker divisional champion in certain circumstances.  Notre Dame's experience this year may have made this more clear to all involved.  They ended up fine because they were undefeated but it seems pretty obvious that a one-loss Notre Dame would have been on the outside looking in.  Meanwhile, playing a bad Pitt team in the ACC Championship didn't hurt Clemson this year because they were undefeated but if they had needed a quality win in the CG, they wouldn't have been able to get it.  

Notre Dame played five ACC schools this year (Wake, VaTech, Pitt, FSU, Syracuse).  Maybe they and the ACC will increase that to six per year and allow the Irish to replace the weaker divisional champion anytime their record vs ACC teams is better than the weaker divisional Champion by a set amount.  That would have made the ACCCG a much higher rated game this year as it would effectively have been a NC quarter-final.  I understand that it would have hurt the ACC/ND this year because it would likely have knocked one of them out of the CFP but they can figure out as I can that situations will be different in different years.  

On the issue of the B12:
I still think that 14 is just not the right number of teams for a conference.  When @847badgerfan and others say "go back to 11" or "go back to 10", I get where they are coming from.  At the same time, we all know that isn't going to happen.  The PAC already tried to expand to 16 and my assumption is that the B1G, ACC, and SEC are thinking the same thing.  I think OU/TX to the B1G might happen but it is more likely that they will end up in either the PAC or SEC, probably the PAC.  Then the SEC and B1G will probably grab two each out of the B12/ACC and the remnants of the ACC and B12 will be effectively forced to merge and we'll have our four super-conferences.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2018, 05:42:47 PM »
Agreed.  But is there any particular action that could be taken to fast-forward all of that?  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 05:53:47 PM »
PAC poaches UTA & OU.
SEC poaches OKST & KU (for basketball), Bama & Auburn move to the East.
B10 poaches 2 of UVA, VT, UNC, Pitt



ACC gets ND, absorbs WV (geo), TCU (recruiting), then adds some random, contiguous footprint-expansion school like UConn to get to 16.  
Everyone is at 16 except the PAC, so they take TxTech and KSU or anyone-but-Boise-but-maybe-Boise to get to 16. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 05:57:26 PM »
The XII somehow outlasting the ACC would be a shocker, but would involve them adding UCF and/or USF, and ND somehow screwing over the ACC.  I don't know how they would, but I don't see any other way.  The XII isn't going to poach anyone from the B10 or SEC, so they'd have to convince Pitt to be a pair with WV, then add the FL schools, and maybe even go after ND themselves, guaranteeing the Irish they keep all their money and get full membership.  I doubt Texas' ego would allow that, though, so it's basically impossible.



The Texas-OU marriage can maintain for now and probably for a good, long while.  But it has nowhere to develop or expand, really.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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