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Topic: Is Urby In Trouble Here?

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1218 on: September 19, 2018, 09:36:15 PM »
Wow. This thread really blew up since yesterday when I thought the tweet would be the final talking point, which would quietly end it. Nubbz, this post is hilriously epic because it’s the type of feedback I’m hearing from all of my buddies. Most of them started out defending him initially, but now they’re just pissed and wish he’d stfu. Smug and condescending are definitely common terms being used.
HB - as someone that deeply respects you, I encourage you to walk away from this one. Your responses aren’t you. Your anger isn’t you. I think it’s fair to say you see it different than quite a few people. This topic isn’t bringing out the best of this group. Maybe pack it in?
Walk away lol.  These posts prove my point.  
People pile on, get their facts completely wrong and create a false narrative to suit them. 
Again, did he cover up or enable DV?  Obviously not. Yet that is the narrative 
It’s actually humorous.  It’s like watching sheep. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1219 on: September 19, 2018, 11:32:51 PM »
At least get your facts straight.  When he found out about the strip club he gave both coaches a termination warning and wrote a morality clause about THE NEXT DAY
Nubbz will let me know if I'm wrong but when he typed "did nothing," I think he was just trying to say "didn't go to Compliance for the strip club situation" in fewer words.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1220 on: September 19, 2018, 11:43:26 PM »
Btw, HB, I think it's fair to point out that almost all Michigan fans are all over this. And no doubt that is at least partly due to football psychology and therefore at least partly embarrassing for us. Because the highest integrity way to respond would be to shut off our football lizard brains, make sure the woman is ok, speak calmly about justice in simple terms and never get excited about the football consequences.
However, just because Michigan fans are all over it, getting warrior-like about DV, and "oh man are they going to lose extra games now?!!!" doesn't also mean that the average M fan opinion is wrong. It's tacky for sure. But whether they also have an incorrect view of Urban's errors is an entirely different thing.
To answer that - and this is the sort of thing that is very challenging to answer honestly so perhaps it's of no use - we'd have to imagine the scenario where Urban did all of these same things at Florida and then was hired at Michigan (not OSU) where he brought Zach and both did all the same things and made all the same July/August headlines. In that alternate universe, how would each side respond?
I'm pretty sure Michigan fans would defend him like family and OSU fans would be out for blood.
At some level, we're all defective idiots when it comes to scandals and our teams. That doesn't mean that "the other side" can't be right. Just that it's fair to be skeptical of their motives and, if they are right, to clarify that they are largely right for the wrong reasons. Correct out of coincidence, not out of smarts or morals.
In this situation, I'd say many (most?) Michigan fans have been super tacky but also correct for accidental reasons.
(Right about Urban making a whole lot of bad mistakes but their correctness is for the wrong reasons because many Michigan fans would have been locked and loaded with that opinion even if it hadn't actually been true)
In that sense I suppose I'm saying that when it comes to sports emotions and rivalries, we're all broken clocks, and - despite our mixed up grasp of reality - still correct twice daily.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:01:11 AM by Anonymous Coward »

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1221 on: September 19, 2018, 11:57:21 PM »
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

MrNubbz

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1222 on: September 20, 2018, 09:17:11 AM »
At least get your facts straight.  When he found out about the strip club he gave both coaches a termination warning and wrote a morality clause about THE NEXT DAY
Oh that's just rich,Urban warned him about his drinking,Urban warned him about being late to meetings,Urban,warned him about domestic violence,Urban warned him about taking recruits coaches to strip clubs and drinking - that he previously warned him about.But,but,but Shelley and Urbz counseled Courtney and Zach back in 2009 in Gainesville(Urbans words) so if he is to be believed there wouldn't be a need for at least 3 more warnings(that I know about) after that about juvenile behavior.And you don't see a trend there?Yup like the song says "I'm frightened by those who don't see it".
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:02:17 AM by MrNubbz »
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Riffraft

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1223 on: September 20, 2018, 10:21:44 AM »
Wow. This thread really blew up since yesterday when I thought the tweet would be the final talking point, which would quietly end it. Nubbz, this post is hilriously epic because it’s the type of feedback I’m hearing from all of my buddies. Most of them started out defending him initially, but now they’re just pissed and wish he’d stfu. Smug and condescending are definitely common terms being used.
HB - as someone that deeply respects you, I encourage you to walk away from this one. Your responses aren’t you. Your anger isn’t you. I think it’s fair to say you see it different than quite a few people. This topic isn’t bringing out the best of this group. Maybe pack it in?
As one of the older fan, that I guess is in the minority according to Mrnubbz, I hope HB continues to responds to what I consider to be over the top responses to Urban's handling of the whole thing. While many of us don't agree with how Urban handled this whole thing, we "reasonably" think there was nothing to warrant the suspension based on observing the events as they unfolded and reading the report that was produced. We find the hyperbole being spouted (and I use that word intentionally) to be so over the top to be ridiculous.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 10:29:58 AM by Riffraft »

bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1224 on: September 20, 2018, 10:24:51 AM »
I just read we have moved past the Postmodernism movement and we are now into a "post truth" generation. Post Truth is defined by saying there is an absolute Truth, but my opinions and bias are more important. We cherry-pick parts of the truth that reinforce our bias and minimize or ignore other parts.

I feel (

Riffraft

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bayareabadger

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1226 on: September 20, 2018, 10:30:29 AM »
Walk away lol.  These posts prove my point.  
People pile on, get their facts completely wrong and create a false narrative to suit them.
Again, did he cover up or enable DV?  Obviously not. Yet that is the narrative
It’s actually humorous.  It’s like watching sheep.
So, if I may, if I argue Urby did not do this very specific thing, but feel he did several other things wrong and came off as a gross and disingenuous human, you would not fight me on this?

I guess my question is, is the narrative you're railing against the specificity of his role in DV discussions or something larger about him in general? 

FearlessF

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1227 on: September 20, 2018, 11:32:47 AM »

Again, did he cover up or enable DV?  Obviously not. Yet that is the narrative
Although it's not obvious that Urban did or did not cover up or enable DV, It's definitely not my narrative and doesn't seem to be the narrative on this thread.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1228 on: September 20, 2018, 12:46:20 PM »
It's definitely not my narrative and doesn't seem to be the narrative on this thread.

Yeah, I think the thread has been much more zoomed in than "was there enabling/covering up?" I'll admit that was the discussion when we lacked info before the investigation went public. But then we transitioned into facts.

Since then, this thread has been almost entirely about three things:

  • Urban was contractually required to go to Compliance and didn't
  • Urban and his DFO conspired to delete text messages
  • Urban continuously feeds the story by poorly apologizing, repeating the bad apology and submitting explanations of the bad apology
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:51:04 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1229 on: September 20, 2018, 12:59:04 PM »
So, if I may, if I argue Urby did not do this very specific thing, but feel he did several other things wrong and came off as a gross and disingenuous human, you would not fight me on this?

I guess my question is, is the narrative you're railing against the specificity of his role in DV discussions or something larger about him in general?
 No-you nailed it.  
I don’t much care what rabid OSU or UM fans say or think.   I mean let’s face it-they are totally self serving as a mob.  Hell- the UM fans were calling for Dantonios head with the Nassau episode. 
But I continue to fall into the false myth that folks on this board tend to be more balanced- more interested in the big picture.  And it kicks me in the gut each time. Many here with nothing different than mob mentality.  
Believe it or not- I have never been a huge Meyer fan. When he came to OSU I said “my jury is out”
One of my favorite games of all time was Lloyd kicking his ass in his last game.  And Meyer’s response to that loss was to crucify his players in public.  WhT a dick-that was my thought at the time. 
But I have paid a lot of attention to his treatment of players and families, the types of kids he is recruiting, the punishment he doles out when players step out of line, what players and their families say about their experience during recruiting, and before an after when they leave. 
It tells me he has made an intense concerted effort to do better than he did at UF. The families consistently praise the program for going way beyond football to help the kids, and consistently talk about OSU NOT negative recruiting, and more often the negative recruiting that people do against them.  
So yeah. He screwed the whole ZS thing up.  But that’s substantially different and more human then what most read IMO it, which is just disappointing for people on this board- IMO. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

SuperMario

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1230 on: September 20, 2018, 12:59:10 PM »
Walk away lol.  These posts prove my point.  
People pile on, get their facts completely wrong and create a false narrative to suit them.
Again, did he cover up or enable DV?  Obviously not. Yet that is the narrative
It’s actually humorous.  It’s like watching sheep.
How does my post prove your point? From day 1 I've never stated he covered up DV, but I had the bigger issue with his dishonesty at media day and his smugness. My trail of disdain goes all the way back to BG & how he lied to his players about his departure and then replicated something similar at Utah. He's always been an opportunist that uses people to win. The guy is so arrogant, he can't let this entire thing go and continues to run his mouth. The second that's brought up, you circle back to covering up or enabling domestic violence.  I offered friendly advice because you're consistently calling people sheep and making it personal because someone has a difference of opinion.
Just odd to see you make enemies with folks here defending a guy with a trail of character issues. To repeat, I'm not claiming one of them is covering up domestic violence.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 01:01:07 PM by SuperMario »

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Is Urby In Trouble Here?
« Reply #1231 on: September 20, 2018, 01:03:40 PM »
How does my post prove your point? From day 1 I've never stated he covered up DV, but I had the bigger issue with his dishonesty at media day and his smugness. My trail of disdain goes all the way back to BG & how he lied to his players about his departure and then replicated something similar at Utah. He's always been an opportunist that uses people to win. The guy is so arrogant, he can't let this entire thing go and continues to run his mouth. The second that's brought up, you circle back to covering up or enabling domestic violence.  I offered friendly advice because you're consistently calling people sheep and making it personal because someone has a difference of opinion.
Just odd to see you make enemies with folks here defending a guy with a trail of character issues. To repeat, I'm not claiming one of them is covering up domestic violence.
I wasn’t referring to you Super. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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