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Topic: Talk of Eliminating Divisions

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2018, 03:13:18 PM »
One idea I've heard (and I haven't checked the whole thread here) on the radio was the idea of getting rid of CCGs.  Instead, you'd take the top 8 teams and have a de-facto first round @ the CCG site.
So Alabama would host someone like UCF in Atlanta.  Clemson would host Michigan in Charlotte.  ND would host OSU in Indianapolis.  OU would host Georgia @ JerryWorld.  

So the sites are still involved, but each matchup is actually bigger, and it strips away the "who's in the playoff?" banter, because they settle it on the field.  The only drawback is for those teams like Pitt and Northwestern, the lesser divison-winners, get no payoff.  No carrot at the end of the season to try to pull the upset.
My only complaint about that is how do you determine conference champions? Not saying that conference championships matter for the playoff, since you're taking top 8 teams, without regard to who is a conference champion. 
But I want conference championship to matter. I want teams to be playing for that FIRST and for the playoff second. If you have 14, or maybe 16-team conferences, there's no good way to actually determine a conference champion any more without CCG. I mean, if you have 16 teams and the teams tie five ways for conference champion at 7-2, is there any value to a conference championship any more?

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2018, 06:19:02 PM »
Maybe I'm crazy but the lack of uniformity truly does not bother me.  Let's get rid of recruiting and split up players like the pro leagues do, and ensure all athletic donations are split among all schools equally.  I don't know, if you want to go all in on just being NFL-lite, then go all in.  I'm not convinced of why we need that.  If the top 5 teams all play someone else in a bowl game at the end, I'm kind of cool with that.  But if you want to be NFL-lite, then I think you just might as well go all the way.  Dismantle the conferences entirely, and rebuild the whole thing from the ground up.  You know, for amateurism or whatever.
I have no idea why you'd do any of that.  The uniformity I'm talking about would merely make rating the teams all the more easier at the end of the season.  Why wouldn't they recruit how they do now?  Why wouldn't the bluebloods benefit from their additional monies like they do now?  
I just want to sort of socialize everyone's season resumes.  The talent disparities would still exist, but the schedules would be more even.  It would actually make it so you could almost blindly rank the teams by their record like the voters do now, lol.  It would minimalize the context that so many of them ignore now.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2018, 08:02:01 PM »
My only complaint about that is how do you determine conference champions? Not saying that conference championships matter for the playoff, since you're taking top 8 teams, without regard to who is a conference champion.
But I want conference championship to matter. I want teams to be playing for that FIRST and for the playoff second. If you have 14, or maybe 16-team conferences, there's no good way to actually determine a conference champion any more without CCG. I mean, if you have 16 teams and the teams tie five ways for conference champion at 7-2, is there any value to a conference championship any more?
I don't know if they got to that part - I was driving and got to where I was going, couldn't listen to the whole convo.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ELA

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2018, 08:56:06 PM »
I have no idea why you'd do any of that.  The uniformity I'm talking about would merely make rating the teams all the more easier at the end of the season.  Why wouldn't they recruit how they do now?  Why wouldn't the bluebloods benefit from their additional monies like they do now?  
I just want to sort of socialize everyone's season resumes.  The talent disparities would still exist, but the schedules would be more even.  It would actually make it so you could almost blindly rank the teams by their record like the voters do now, lol.  It would minimalize the context that so many of them ignore now.
My point is I like all of that about the sport.  I enjoy the quirkiness, I enjoy debate.  I have no desire to even things up, and just have NFL lite.  I don't want to add more teams that don't fit in conferences just to get to 16 x 4.

ELA

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2018, 09:06:40 PM »
I'd rather just go back to the pre ACC raid of Big East alignments, start from there to cobble down to 6 conferences of 10.  Not sure exactly what that entails off the top of my head.  Leave the Pac 10, send PSU and ND to the Big East, send SC back to the ACC.  Dump Baylor.  I think that pits the SEC and Big XII at 11 rest at 10.  Temple is an obvious dump, but then you have to move someone into their slot.  Maybe just leave it there at 62, and live with a pair of 11 team conferences.  9 game conference schedule, no CCGs.  6 conference chamos and two at larges.  Done.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2018, 09:11:44 PM »
My point is I like all of that about the sport.  I enjoy the quirkiness, I enjoy debate.  I have no desire to even things up, and just have NFL lite.  I don't want to add more teams that don't fit in conferences just to get to 16 x 4.
I don't see it as NFL lite.  I'm not suggesting fines for kids who wear their socks differently.  
The problem with the NFL is that 12/32 teams get into the playoffs.  The NBA is worse, and everybody knows it, because the playoffs wind up being an additional season tacked on at the end.  
Getting a little socialist with the schedules would merely test the advantages of the helmet-type teams.  The status quo in college football relies on an underclass of schools relegated to be the chum for the P5.  Human history has taught us that underlings don't like their role and will rebel eventually.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ohio1317

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2018, 11:30:06 PM »
I get where you are coming from, but you are not going to get uniformity in a lot of these things even if everyone wanted it unless you actually merge the major conferences into  a super conference who can impose rules.

Think of it like this.  Right now, let's say Texas and Oklahoma decide to move from the Big 12.  The other conferences aren't going to neatly decide who goes where.  They are all going to want those two because they are cash cows and those two will want whatever situation is best for them (not 100% money, but that's a big factor).  The PAC-12 might be the one to get them because it would have the most room to expand (could add some travel mates), but money would be a lot better elsewhere (PAC-12 is currently getting less than Big 12 schools; would change with those two, but not like Big Ten or SEC money).  Then after they are gone, the others that miss out are not just going to expand for the sake of expanding.  If the other 8 Big 12 schools add more money than headaches, sure, but honestly most won't.  The Big Ten, SEC, and ACC are already at 14 (maybe more in this situation) and that's not a great desire to expand and play less of each other.

As for my personal view on it, I like the controversy.  I don't want 4 conferences and 4 spots because I want to care about those early season out of conference games and those random possible losses along the way.  Those matter a lot less if you are talking about conference champs in automatically.

ohio1317

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2018, 11:36:47 PM »
With the G5 conferences, the worst thing that can actually happen to them is consolidation in the big conferences.  Getting to 4x16 or something like that will only happen if the major conferences merge together in my view.  At that point, the likelihood of a formal break with the G5 becomes more likely.  There is nothing keeping the current structure of FBS football in place except the schools/conferences decision to keep things as they are.  The major conferences have made some concessions to keep Group of 5 conferences happy (money from the playoff bowls, a guarenteed spot in a major bowl regardless of rank, etc), but that only works because the members of those conferences still want to be able to schedule games vs. those schools, win 80% of the time, and then count the win as a full FBS win.  If their interest in staying affiliated disappears, there is nothing keeping everyone together but momentum. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2018, 03:11:52 AM »
Why shouldn't the big-boy conferences form their own entity and leave the NCAA?  Have a commissioner, start paying players, and legislating their socks......oh wait, that's NFL lite.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2018, 02:36:09 PM »
Why shouldn't the big-boy conferences form their own entity and leave the NCAA?  Have a commissioner, start paying players, and legislating their socks......oh wait, that's NFL lite.
I don't think it's practical for the P5 to leave the NCAA for football exclusively. 
Either the entire athletic departments leave the NCAA (and prepare for the consequences, which may include the NCAA prohibiting competition with the new P5 association in any sport), or the entire ADs stay.
Of course I could be wrong, but that's my sense. That we remain vulnerable to the NCAA acting out unless the separation is absolute.

847badgerfan

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2018, 06:09:33 PM »
If that happened, I predict the SEC would add UNC and UVA, for the eyeballs.  A lot more people in NC and VA than OK or KS.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

LittlePig

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #68 on: December 10, 2018, 11:00:24 AM »
If the Big Ten does get rid of divisions, 2022 would probably be a good time to do it.  By that time the Big Ten will have cycled through a full 6 year cycle where everybody had played each other at least twice.

Plus I don't believe the announced schedules for 2022-2025 went over very well.  When it was announced that everybody's annual cross over team was picked out of a hat,  people were underwhelmed with the Big Ten's scheduling strategy.   Does anybody really think it's a good idea for Iowa and Rutgers to play every year.

Personally I don't care about getting the 2 best teams in the CCG  but I would like to get rid of these goofy annual crossover games.

847badgerfan

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Re: Talk of Eliminating Divisions
« Reply #69 on: December 10, 2018, 11:09:07 AM »
If the Big Ten does get rid of divisions, 2022 would probably be a good time to do it.  By that time the Big Ten will have cycled through a full 6 year cycle where everybody had played each other at least twice.

Plus I don't believe the announced schedules for 2022-2025 went over very well.  When it was announced that everybody's annual cross over team was picked out of a hat,  people were underwhelmed with the Big Ten's scheduling strategy.   Does anybody really think it's a good idea for Iowa and Rutgers to play every year.

Personally I don't care about getting the 2 best teams in the CCG  but I would like to get rid of these goofy annual crossover games.
The guy who shoehorned them into the conference apparently does.
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