All Time Best Numbers (uPDATED)

[SFBadger96]

Other possible Domers:
14 - Johnny Lattner (Heisman winner and two-time all-American).
32 - Johnny Lujack (Heisman winner, quarterback and defensive back, played on three MNC teams)
81 - An embarrassment of riches for the Irish, in addition to Tim Brown are Alan Page and George Connor (2-time all-American and Outland Trophy winner, whose Irish never lost, '46-'48). FWIW, Alan Page and George Connor are often considered among ND's top ten players ever, sometimes (often?) listed above Tim Brown. 

[SFBadger96]

I find it odd how most people most of the time use winning as the ultimate concern for QBs.....except when they don't.  There is only one reason to choose Elway over someone like Wuerffel - NFL success.  Their college resumes are a mismatch, sorry.

Completely disagree. Nothing to do with NFL success. Elway was #2 in the Heisman voting in 1982 behind Herschel Walker despite playing on a losing football team. He was the best quarterback in the country on a crappy team.
Danny Wuerffel played on great Florida teams. Those teams made Wuerffel better. Elway's teams made him worse--and he was still the best QB in the country.

To use your own analogy, you're using Florida's winning to justify Wuerffel over a better quarterback on a team that sucked.

Some fun things to know about Elway's college career. In addition to being a consensus All-American his senior year, he won the Sammy Baugh trophy for best passer in the country, and, as noted, was #2 in the Heisman voting despite playing on a losing team. Recall that only Paul Hornung (with a little ND bias) has won a Heisman from a losing team. He was the 1980 and 1982 Pac-10 player of the year, despite playing on 6-5 and 5-6 teams, respectively. In case you're wondering who else played in the Pac-10 in 1980, this kid Marcus Allen (you may remember him from the '81 Heisman trophy) was in the backfield at USC--and Ronnie Lott played his last season at USC that year, too, before being the 49ers  1st round NFL pick (8th overall). Elway set Pac-10 records for passing yardage, passing touchdowns, and completions, and was #2 in completion percentage behind Heisman winner Jim Plunkett.

The year after Elway graduated, Stanford dropped from 5-6 to 1-10. The year after Wuerffel graduated, Florida dropped, too--from 12-1 to 10-2.

[847badgerfan]

I saw a post about Butkus upthread. #50 played offense and defense for the Illini but garnished most of his collegiate awards for playing center.

I normally don't care for wiki, but this is a solid entry:

College career[edit]

Butkus played center and linebacker from 1962 through 1964 at the University of Illinois for the Illinois Fighting Illini football team. In his first year on the varsity team, he was named to the 1962 All-Big Ten Conference football team as the third-team center by the Associated Press (AP) and second-team center by United Press International (UPI).^[7][8] In 1963, Illinois compiled an 8–1–1 record and defeated Washington in the 1964 Rose Bowl. Butkus was named the team's most valuable player for the season, and was awarded the Chicago Tribune Silver Football as the Big Ten's most valuable player.^[9] He was a unanimous choice as a center for the 1963 College Football All-America Team, earning first-team honors from all seven major selectors.^[10]

As a senior in 1964, Butkus was named the team's co-captain along with safety George Donnelly.^[11] UPI deemed Butkus college football's Lineman of the Year for 1964,^[12] and he was named the player of the year by the American Football Coaches Association and The Sporting News.^[13] For the second consecutive season he was deemed the Illini's most valuable player. He was chosen for the 1964 All-America team by five of the six major selectors. In a cover story for Sports Illustrated that season, sportswriter Dan Jenkins remarked, "If every college football team had a linebacker like Dick Butkus of Illinois, all fullbacks soon would be three feet tall and sing soprano."^[14] Butkus also finished sixth in Heisman Trophy balloting in 1963 and third in 1964, rare results both for a lineman and a defensive player.^[15] According to statistics kept by the university, he completed his college career with 374 tackles: 97 in 1962, 145 in 1963, and 132 in 1964.^[16]

[Kris61]

Yeah, it’s easy to get in the weeds with accomplishment vs. ability.  Wuerffel accomplished more in college than Elway but it’s hard to deny a big part of that was the team around him.  And despite all of that it was never in question about who was actually the better player even before either of them took an NFL snap.

[Kris61]

See, this always happens - we get guys like Dan Marino and Curtis Martin on these COLLEGE lists, and it becomes an NFL list.

Yes, Marino and Martin were very good in college.  But they made like one fringe All-American team for one year.  Yes, they went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers, but in this exercise, that is meaningless!

Perfect illustration:  Look at 51 and 52.  
Everybody knows Ray Lewis.  HOF NFL LB.  Great at Miami, small, fast, was an AA one year.  But his college resume is dwarfed by a less-known LB in the same state:  Brandon Spikes.  Hell, even Takeo Spikes of Auburn is probably better known.  But Brandon Spikes was a 3x AA at Florida.  So if he and Ray Lewis had the same jersey number, for this exercise, Spikes should make the list.  

Just for future reference.  We have Marino and Martin on the list, and they'll stay on it, until they're replaced by someone better (college considerations only).

Before you get too preachy on this you might want to explain why you have Jerome Bettis listed over someone like Baker Mayfield.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Completely disagree. Nothing to do with NFL success. Elway was #2 in the Heisman voting in 1982 behind Herschel Walker despite playing on a losing football team. He was the best quarterback in the country on a crappy team.
Danny Wuerffel played on great Florida teams. Those teams made Wuerffel better. Elway's teams made him worse--and he was still the best QB in the country.

To use your own analogy, you're using Florida's winning to justify Wuerffel over a better quarterback on a team that sucked.

Some fun things to know about Elway's college career. In addition to being a consensus All-American his senior year, he won the Sammy Baugh trophy for best passer in the country, and, as noted, was #2 in the Heisman voting despite playing on a losing team. Recall that only Paul Hornung (with a little ND bias) has won a Heisman from a losing team. He was the 1980 and 1982 Pac-10 player of the year, despite playing on 6-5 and 5-6 teams, respectively. In case you're wondering who else played in the Pac-10 in 1980, this kid Marcus Allen (you may remember him from the '81 Heisman trophy) was in the backfield at USC--and Ronnie Lott played his last season at USC that year, too, before being the 49ers  1st round NFL pick (8th overall). Elway set Pac-10 records for passing yardage, passing touchdowns, and completions, and was #2 in completion percentage behind Heisman winner Jim Plunkett.

The year after Elway graduated, Stanford dropped from 5-6 to 1-10. The year after Wuerffel graduated, Florida dropped, too--from 12-1 to 10-2.

Okay, so I read all of that and see that Elway had one great year.  Woo-hoo!  
Statistically, Elway's best year resembles Wuerffel's worst, so I wouldn''t cite stats.  
My whole life, Joe Montana was always held is such higher esteem than Dan Marino, despite Marino's stats dwarfing Montana's.  Either winning matters for a QB or it doesn't.  
-------------------------------------------------------------
If Elway doesn't measure up when it comes to stats or winning, then the only reason he's noteworthy is his tools.  Perhaps the best "arm talent" of all-time.  Great.  But admit that.  If he threw wounded ducks with the same exact stats and wins, he wouldn't even get a mention here.  If he didn't win 2 Super Bowls....if his last name was Smith his college career was largely unremarkable.  
Wuerffel won 4 straight SEC championships along with the '96 NC.  The 4 years before he was there and the 4 years after, Florida only one 1 SEC championship each.  He replaced the 3x SEC Player of the Year and took UF to another level.  And yes, there was quite a drop-off when he left.  Thankfully those '97 and '98 Gators teams had great defenses.
Elway was an all-time great NFL QB.  But this isn't an NFL list, sorry.  You could find a dozen college QBs with similar careers as his who fans deem unremarkable.  

[OrangeAfroMan]

Before you get too preachy on this you might want to explain why you have Jerome Bettis listed over someone like Baker Mayfield.

LOL.  Because he was the first guy to pop in my head.  I'd love for half the list to be improved upon (including Bettis) because, you know, participation is fun!  
But as I've previously said, this isn't an NFL list.  I'll gladly put Mayfield in for #6 now, because it make sense.

[SFBadger96]

Yeah, it’s easy to get in the weeds with accomplishment vs. ability.  Wuerffel accomplished more in college than Elway but it’s hard to deny a big part of that was the team around him.  And despite all of that it was never in question about who was actually the better player even before either of them took an NFL snap.

Indeed. There's a reason Elway was the #1 draft pick.

It wasn't just 1982; he was Pac-10 player of the year in 1980, too.

You've got your Florida bias and your national championship. Elway had the whole country believing he was the best in college at the time.

Here's another perspective supporting my Stanford love:
https://www.si.com/college-football/photos/2008/12/01best-college-qb-of-all-time#3 

[OrangeAfroMan]

Please don't disrespect me and suggest I'm being a homer here.  There are about 2 QBs in history with a better resume than Wuerffel, and they both wore #15.  

Let's have fun with this - I have 2 questions:
1 - if Elway was the best QB ever by 1982, who did he replace at the top?
2 - Willie Tuitama, Steve Stenstrom, Tom Ramsey....look them up and tell me how Elway's any different, besides Heisman voters' being enamored with his "arm talent".

btw, your link lists 18 QBs at random, including Wuerffel, lol.

[SFBadger96]

You could find a dozen college QBs with similar careers as his who fans deem unremarkable.  

Name two. Your criteria are: two-time conference player of the year (not at their position, for all positions), and Heisman trophy runner-up/consensus All-American, while playing for a losing team.
Go...

[OrangeAfroMan]

See, your criteria are exclusively based on voting......not with what Elway did on the field.  You don't see a problem there?  

I'm foolishly looking at TD/INT ratio, QB rating, and other measurables.  

[SFBadger96]

Please don't disrespect me and suggest I'm being a homer here.  There are about 2 QBs in history with a better resume than Wuerffel, and they both wore #15.  

Let's have fun with this - I have 2 questions:
1 - if Elway was the best QB ever by 1982, who did he replace at the top?
2 - Willie Tuitama, Steve Stenstrom, Tom Ramsey....look them up and tell me how Elway's any different, besides Heisman voters' being enamored with his "arm talent".

btw, your link lists 18 QBs at random, including Wuerffel, lol.

He wasn't the best QB ever (I don't think); he was the best in college football in 1982 (and probably while he was in college, so 1979-82), and the best college player I'm aware of to wear #7.

Tom Ramsey is a good one to juxtapose, because he looks a lot more like Wuerffel, playing on #5 UCLA and putting up solid stats. Yet the Pac-10 voters, the All-American voters, and the Heisman voters all thought Elway was the better quarterback. That wasn't because of what he did in the NFL--he wasn't there yet.

You're looking for the best player to wear a number, not the best player on a great team to wear a given number. If the latter were your criteria, Theismann is probably back in the running, and Wuerffel has a great argument. If you're looking for the best player--in college--Elway takes it.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Name two. Your criteria are: two-time conference player of the year (not at their position, for all positions), and Heisman trophy runner-up/consensus All-American, while playing for a losing team.
Go...

So he gets credit for losing?!?  Why?  Was he not a good-enough leader?  lol  Was he lacking the 'eye of the tiger'?

[SFBadger96]

See, your criteria are exclusively based on voting......not with what Elway did on the field.  You don't see a problem there?  

I'm foolishly looking at TD/INT ratio, QB rating, and other measurables.  

What do you think those voters (for All-American and Pac-10 conference honors in addition to the Heisman) were basing their votes on? Future wins in the NFL? Sure, that makes sense.