College Football Fan Site Area 51 @CFB51; dead nuts accurate

One community smart about college football

Civil discussion, topics, and reading of both original and aggregated news.


Author Topic: All Time Best Numbers  (Read 545 times)

Online ELA

  • Global Moderator
  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 3395
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2018, 02:17:58 PM »
Bubba Smith is listed as #35 for some reason, he should be #95, which is open.
To add more MSU...

I'd take Percy Snow over Derrick Rodgers for #59.  ROdgers was 1st team AA as a LB.  So was Snow, but Snow is one of 4 players in history to win both the Lombardi and the Butkus in the same year, and he was elected into the College Football Hall of Fame in 2013.

I'm assuming someone will trump him but since it's open, I'll submit Don Coleman for #78.  He was MSU's first unanimous AA, and finished runner up for the Outland Trophy.  Rumor is Bear Bryant told him the only reason he didn't win it was because he was black, and that Bryant would have integrated his team just to add him.

Online bwarbiany

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 770
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 02:53:47 PM »
To back up my point:  Anthony Munoz doesn't belong on any all-time greats college football lists.  He was hurt half the time and made zero all-american teams.  This is a college list.  No Tom Brady, no Joe Montana.  
On that point, at least for the B1G conference list, it should be Drew Brees over JT Barrett. Barrett played on a better team, of course. But Brees was IMHO a better QB, and owns most of the all-time Big Ten records... In fact, the one that Barrett holds (touchdown passes) would be Brees' if he was a 4-year player. He only started from his Soph through Sr year. 

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 02:58:00 PM »
Here's some to vote on:
8 - Davey O'Brien
3 - Carson Palmer
10 - Vince Young (remember, career, not just one game, lol)
14 - Don Hutson (first productive WR, look it up)
23 - Leroy Keyes, RB, Purdue
24 - Kinnick
27 - Eddie George
28 - Adrian Peterson OR Anthony Davis, RB, USC
38 - George Rogers, RB, S.Carolina
43 - Terry Kinard, S, Clemson
44 - Jim Brown (remember, college only)
47 - Bennie Oosterbaan, E, Michigan
49 - Bob Chappuis, RB, Michigan
50 - Rimington
57 - Steve Kiner, LB, Tennesse OR Dwight Stevenson, C, Alabama
60 - Bednarik C/LB, Penn St
64 - Lachey, G, Ohio St
66 - George Gipp, RB, Notre Dame
71 - Tony Boselli
72 - Nagurski FB/DT, Minnesota OR Bob Lilly, DT, TCU
74 - Tracy Rocker, DT, Auburn OR John Hicks, T, Ohio St
77- Red Grange
78 - Bruce Smith, DT, VA Tech (college only)
82 - Ozzie Newsome, TE, Alabama
83 - Richard Wood, LB, USC
84 - Jerry Robinson, LB, UCLA
87 - Chad Hennings, DE, USAFA
92 - Tony Casillas, DT, Oklahoma
94 - Randy White, DT, Maryland
96 - Danny Stubbs, DE, Miami
98 - Tom Harmon, RB, Michigan
----------------------------------------
Which of these (if any) should be included instead of who's there now?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:11:48 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
Gators chomp Nazis

Online Kris61

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 03:01:52 PM »
Jerry Rice wore 88 in college and I don’t think he replaces Randy Moss at that number.  If that leaves 80 open then a name that pops to mind for me is Eric Curry.  AA DE on Bama’s 92 National Title team.  I’m just trying to think of guys without doing a lot of research.

Gino Toretta wore #13 in college if someone wants to replace Marino, although I personally wouldn’t.

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 03:07:14 PM »
On that point, at least for the B1G conference list, it should be Drew Brees over JT Barrett. Barrett played on a better team, of course. But Brees was IMHO a better QB, and owns most of the all-time Big Ten records... In fact, the one that Barrett holds (touchdown passes) would be Brees' if he was a 4-year player. He only started from his Soph through Sr year.
You're entitled to your opinion, and Brees certainly leads in volume stats.  Maybe Brees wins in the eye test, but for me, I'll take the more efficient QB (also with plenty of volume).  I think you're description of Brees is misleading, though.  He leads in attempts, completions, and yards.  But that's it.  
Brees vs Barrett
 x    comp    
 x     att    
     comp%  x
 x   yds    
    yds/att   x       <<<very important and overlooked
       TD      x
 x    INT                (as in more)
      Rating  x      <<<<by 20 pts
And let's not forget
    Rush Yds   x
    Rush YPC  x
    Rush TD    x
For me, and you can't go wrong with Brees, I'll take the more efficient passer with the much better TD:INT ratio, who can also run.
One was beloved and the other shat on most of his career, so there's that, too.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:11:13 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
Gators chomp Nazis

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 03:07:53 PM »
Jerry Rice wore 88 in college and I don’t think he replaces Randy Moss at that number.  If that leaves 80 open then a name that pops to mind for me is Eric Curry.  AA DE on Bama’s 92 National Title team.  I’m just trying to think of guys without doing a lot of research.  Thank you.

Gino Toretta wore #13 in college if someone wants to replace Marino, although I personally wouldn’t.
How dare you.
I remember Curry & Copeland.  Curry was bigger, but Copeland was better, imo.  I think they both disappeared in the NFL.  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:10:49 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
Gators chomp Nazis

Online Kris61

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2018, 04:23:53 PM »
I think a pretty good argument could be made for Curtis Enis over Cunningham at #39.

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2018, 04:33:56 PM »
7 - Joe Theismann (Notre Dame, NOT a Heisman winner, but awfully good [edit re the post below, because I'm an idiot]) over Wuerffel. Or John Elway, Stanford (played on a crappy team, still received Heisman consideration).

16 - Jim Plunkett: an actual Heisman winner, beat out Theismann and Archie Manning; took Stanford to Rose Bowl victory over Ohio State. I know Peyton Manning is an all-time great, but again, college...Plunkett deserves consideration despite the natural recency bias and the way the QB position has changed.

But I'll put down my ND/Stanford homerism to bring up my Wisconsin homerism:
25 - Melvin Gordon

Speaking of running backs and Heisman Winners: Alan Ameche over Bubba Smith for 35?

Elroy Hirsch or Ed McCaffrey at 40?

Mike Webster at 51?



« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 04:59:50 PM by SFBadger96 »

Online Kris61

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2018, 04:50:35 PM »
7 - Joe Theismann (Notre Dame, Heisman winner) over Wuerffel. Or John Elway, Stanford (played on a crappy team, still received Heisman consideration).

16 - Jim Plunkett: an actual Heisman winner, beat out Theismann and Archie Manning; took Stanford to Rose Bowl victory over Ohio State. I know Peyton Manning is an all-time great, but again, college...Plunkett deserves consideration despite the natural recency bias and the way the QB position has changed.

But I'll put down my ND homerism to bring up my Wisconsin homerism:
25 - Melvin Gordon

Speaking of running backs and Heisman Winners: Alan Ameche over Bubba Smith for 35?

Elroy Hirsch or Ed McCaffrey at 40?

Mike Webster at 51?




Theismann didn’t win the Heisman.

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2018, 04:58:35 PM »
Heh--I even said so in my own post. Thought he had won it a different year, but sure enough, you're right.

Hate it when I'm dumb.

And I'm picking Elway at #7 anyway. Stanford needs some love on this list.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 05:00:32 PM by SFBadger96 »

Online MarqHusker

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 910
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2018, 05:11:26 PM »
See, this always happens - we get guys like Dan Marino and Curtis Martin on these COLLEGE lists, and it becomes an NFL list.
100% support this. 

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »
Heh--I even said so in my own post. Thought he had won it a different year, but sure enough, you're right.

Hate it when I'm dumb.

And I'm picking Elway at #7 anyway. Stanford needs some love on this list.
I find it odd how most people most of the time use winning as the ultimate concern for QBs.....except when they don't.  There is only one reason to choose Elway over someone like Wuerffel - NFL success.  Their college resumes are a mismatch, sorry.
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2018, 05:39:21 PM »
Other possible Domers:
14 - Johnny Lattner (Heisman winner and two-time all-American).
32 - Johnny Lujack (Heisman winner, quarterback and defensive back, played on three MNC teams)
81 - An embarrassment of riches for the Irish, in addition to Tim Brown are Alan Page and George Connor (2-time all-American and Outland Trophy winner, whose Irish never lost, '46-'48). FWIW, Alan Page and George Connor are often considered among ND's top ten players ever, sometimes (often?) listed above Tim Brown. 

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2018, 05:43:41 PM »
I find it odd how most people most of the time use winning as the ultimate concern for QBs.....except when they don't.  There is only one reason to choose Elway over someone like Wuerffel - NFL success.  Their college resumes are a mismatch, sorry.
Completely disagree. Nothing to do with NFL success. Elway was #2 in the Heisman voting in 1982 behind Herschel Walker despite playing on a losing football team. He was the best quarterback in the country on a crappy team.
Danny Wuerffel played on great Florida teams. Those teams made Wuerffel better. Elway's teams made him worse--and he was still the best QB in the country.

To use your own analogy, you're using Florida's winning to justify Wuerffel over a better quarterback on a team that sucked.

Some fun things to know about Elway's college career. In addition to being a consensus All-American his senior year, he won the Sammy Baugh trophy for best passer in the country, and, as noted, was #2 in the Heisman voting despite playing on a losing team. Recall that only Paul Hornung (with a little ND bias) has won a Heisman from a losing team. He was the 1980 and 1982 Pac-10 player of the year, despite playing on 6-5 and 5-6 teams, respectively. In case you're wondering who else played in the Pac-10 in 1980, this kid Marcus Allen (you may remember him from the '81 Heisman trophy) was in the backfield at USC--and Ronnie Lott played his last season at USC that year, too, before being the 49ers  1st round NFL pick (8th overall). Elway set Pac-10 records for passing yardage, passing touchdowns, and completions, and was #2 in completion percentage behind Heisman winner Jim Plunkett.

The year after Elway graduated, Stanford dropped from 5-6 to 1-10. The year after Wuerffel graduated, Florida dropped, too--from 12-1 to 10-2.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 06:33:32 PM by SFBadger96 »

Online 847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 2700
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2018, 05:48:16 PM »
I saw a post about Butkus upthread. #50 played offense and defense for the Illini but garnished most of his collegiate awards for playing center.

I normally don't care for wiki, but this is a solid entry:

College career[edit]

Butkus played center and linebacker from 1962 through 1964 at the University of Illinois for the Illinois Fighting Illini football team. In his first year on the varsity team, he was named to the 1962 All-Big Ten Conference football team as the third-team center by the Associated Press (AP) and second-team center by United Press International (UPI).[7][8] In 1963, Illinois compiled an 8–1–1 record and defeated Washington in the 1964 Rose Bowl. Butkus was named the team's most valuable player for the season, and was awarded the Chicago Tribune Silver Football as the Big Ten's most valuable player.[9] He was a unanimous choice as a center for the 1963 College Football All-America Team, earning first-team honors from all seven major selectors.[10]

As a senior in 1964, Butkus was named the team's co-captain along with safety George Donnelly.[11] UPI deemed Butkus college football's Lineman of the Year for 1964,[12] and he was named the player of the year by the American Football Coaches Association and The Sporting News.[13] For the second consecutive season he was deemed the Illini's most valuable player. He was chosen for the 1964 All-America team by five of the six major selectors. In a cover story for Sports Illustrated that season, sportswriter Dan Jenkins remarked, "If every college football team had a linebacker like Dick Butkus of Illinois, all fullbacks soon would be three feet tall and sing soprano."[14] Butkus also finished sixth in Heisman Trophy balloting in 1963 and third in 1964, rare results both for a lineman and a defensive player.[15] According to statistics kept by the university, he completed his college career with 374 tackles: 97 in 1962, 145 in 1963, and 132 in 1964.[16]

Online Kris61

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2018, 06:47:10 PM »
Yeah, it’s easy to get in the weeds with accomplishment vs. ability.  Wuerffel accomplished more in college than Elway but it’s hard to deny a big part of that was the team around him.  And despite all of that it was never in question about who was actually the better player even before either of them took an NFL snap.


Online Kris61

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2018, 06:49:01 PM »
See, this always happens - we get guys like Dan Marino and Curtis Martin on these COLLEGE lists, and it becomes an NFL list.

Yes, Marino and Martin were very good in college.  But they made like one fringe All-American team for one year.  Yes, they went on to have Hall of Fame NFL careers, but in this exercise, that is meaningless!

Perfect illustration:  Look at 51 and 52.  
Everybody knows Ray Lewis.  HOF NFL LB.  Great at Miami, small, fast, was an AA one year.  But his college resume is dwarfed by a less-known LB in the same state:  Brandon Spikes.  Hell, even Takeo Spikes of Auburn is probably better known.  But Brandon Spikes was a 3x AA at Florida.  So if he and Ray Lewis had the same jersey number, for this exercise, Spikes should make the list.  

Just for future reference.  We have Marino and Martin on the list, and they'll stay on it, until they're replaced by someone better (college considerations only).
Before you get too preachy on this you might want to explain why you have Jerome Bettis listed over someone like Baker Mayfield.

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2018, 06:51:20 PM »
Completely disagree. Nothing to do with NFL success. Elway was #2 in the Heisman voting in 1982 behind Herschel Walker despite playing on a losing football team. He was the best quarterback in the country on a crappy team.
Danny Wuerffel played on great Florida teams. Those teams made Wuerffel better. Elway's teams made him worse--and he was still the best QB in the country.

To use your own analogy, you're using Florida's winning to justify Wuerffel over a better quarterback on a team that sucked.

Some fun things to know about Elway's college career. In addition to being a consensus All-American his senior year, he won the Sammy Baugh trophy for best passer in the country, and, as noted, was #2 in the Heisman voting despite playing on a losing team. Recall that only Paul Hornung (with a little ND bias) has won a Heisman from a losing team. He was the 1980 and 1982 Pac-10 player of the year, despite playing on 6-5 and 5-6 teams, respectively. In case you're wondering who else played in the Pac-10 in 1980, this kid Marcus Allen (you may remember him from the '81 Heisman trophy) was in the backfield at USC--and Ronnie Lott played his last season at USC that year, too, before being the 49ers  1st round NFL pick (8th overall). Elway set Pac-10 records for passing yardage, passing touchdowns, and completions, and was #2 in completion percentage behind Heisman winner Jim Plunkett.

The year after Elway graduated, Stanford dropped from 5-6 to 1-10. The year after Wuerffel graduated, Florida dropped, too--from 12-1 to 10-2.
Okay, so I read all of that and see that Elway had one great year.  Woo-hoo!  
Statistically, Elway's best year resembles Wuerffel's worst, so I wouldn''t cite stats.  
My whole life, Joe Montana was always held is such higher esteem than Dan Marino, despite Marino's stats dwarfing Montana's.  Either winning matters for a QB or it doesn't.  
-------------------------------------------------------------
If Elway doesn't measure up when it comes to stats or winning, then the only reason he's noteworthy is his tools.  Perhaps the best "arm talent" of all-time.  Great.  But admit that.  If he threw wounded ducks with the same exact stats and wins, he wouldn't even get a mention here.  If he didn't win 2 Super Bowls....if his last name was Smith his college career was largely unremarkable.  
Wuerffel won 4 straight SEC championships along with the '96 NC.  The 4 years before he was there and the 4 years after, Florida only one 1 SEC championship each.  He replaced the 3x SEC Player of the Year and took UF to another level.  And yes, there was quite a drop-off when he left.  Thankfully those '97 and '98 Gators teams had great defenses.
Elway was an all-time great NFL QB.  But this isn't an NFL list, sorry.  You could find a dozen college QBs with similar careers as his who fans deem unremarkable.  
Gators chomp Nazis

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2018, 06:53:57 PM »
Before you get too preachy on this you might want to explain why you have Jerome Bettis listed over someone like Baker Mayfield.
LOL.  Because he was the first guy to pop in my head.  I'd love for half the list to be improved upon (including Bettis) because, you know, participation is fun!  
But as I've previously said, this isn't an NFL list.  I'll gladly put Mayfield in for #6 now, because it make sense.
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2018, 06:58:48 PM »
Yeah, it’s easy to get in the weeds with accomplishment vs. ability.  Wuerffel accomplished more in college than Elway but it’s hard to deny a big part of that was the team around him.  And despite all of that it was never in question about who was actually the better player even before either of them took an NFL snap.


Indeed. There's a reason Elway was the #1 draft pick.

It wasn't just 1982; he was Pac-10 player of the year in 1980, too.

You've got your Florida bias and your national championship. Elway had the whole country believing he was the best in college at the time.

Here's another perspective supporting my Stanford love:
https://www.si.com/college-football/photos/2008/12/01best-college-qb-of-all-time#3 

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2018, 07:04:57 PM »
Please don't disrespect me and suggest I'm being a homer here.  There are about 2 QBs in history with a better resume than Wuerffel, and they both wore #15.  

Let's have fun with this - I have 2 questions:
1 - if Elway was the best QB ever by 1982, who did he replace at the top?
2 - Willie Tuitama, Steve Stenstrom, Tom Ramsey....look them up and tell me how Elway's any different, besides Heisman voters' being enamored with his "arm talent".

btw, your link lists 18 QBs at random, including Wuerffel, lol.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:11:38 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2018, 07:10:56 PM »
You could find a dozen college QBs with similar careers as his who fans deem unremarkable.  
Name two. Your criteria are: two-time conference player of the year (not at their position, for all positions), and Heisman trophy runner-up/consensus All-American, while playing for a losing team.
Go...

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2018, 07:16:36 PM »
See, your criteria are exclusively based on voting......not with what Elway did on the field.  You don't see a problem there?  

I'm foolishly looking at TD/INT ratio, QB rating, and other measurables.  
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2018, 07:16:58 PM »
Please don't disrespect me and suggest I'm being a homer here.  There are about 2 QBs in history with a better resume than Wuerffel, and they both wore #15.  

Let's have fun with this - I have 2 questions:
1 - if Elway was the best QB ever by 1982, who did he replace at the top?
2 - Willie Tuitama, Steve Stenstrom, Tom Ramsey....look them up and tell me how Elway's any different, besides Heisman voters' being enamored with his "arm talent".

btw, your link lists 18 QBs at random, including Wuerffel, lol.
He wasn't the best QB ever (I don't think); he was the best in college football in 1982 (and probably while he was in college, so 1979-82), and the best college player I'm aware of to wear #7.

Tom Ramsey is a good one to juxtapose, because he looks a lot more like Wuerffel, playing on #5 UCLA and putting up solid stats. Yet the Pac-10 voters, the All-American voters, and the Heisman voters all thought Elway was the better quarterback. That wasn't because of what he did in the NFL--he wasn't there yet.

You're looking for the best player to wear a number, not the best player on a great team to wear a given number. If the latter were your criteria, Theismann is probably back in the running, and Wuerffel has a great argument. If you're looking for the best player--in college--Elway takes it.

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2018, 07:17:39 PM »
Name two. Your criteria are: two-time conference player of the year (not at their position, for all positions), and Heisman trophy runner-up/consensus All-American, while playing for a losing team.
Go...
So he gets credit for losing?!?  Why?  Was he not a good-enough leader?  lol  Was he lacking the 'eye of the tiger'?
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2018, 07:19:36 PM »
See, your criteria are exclusively based on voting......not with what Elway did on the field.  You don't see a problem there?  

I'm foolishly looking at TD/INT ratio, QB rating, and other measurables.  
What do you think those voters (for All-American and Pac-10 conference honors in addition to the Heisman) were basing their votes on? Future wins in the NFL? Sure, that makes sense.

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2018, 07:20:47 PM »
He wasn't the best QB ever (I don't think); he was the best in college football in 1982 (and probably while he was in college, so 1979-82), and the best college player I'm aware of to wear #7.

Tom Ramsey is a good one to juxtapose, because he looks a lot more like Wuerffel, playing on #5 UCLA and putting up solid stats. Yet the Pac-10 voters, the All-American voters, and the Heisman voters all thought Elway was the better quarterback. That wasn't because of what he did in the NFL--he wasn't there yet.

You're looking for the best player to wear a number, not the best player on a great team to wear a given number. If the latter were your criteria, Theismann is probably back in the running, and Wuerffel has a great argument. If you're looking for the best player--in college--Elway takes it.
Alright, great.  Lets remove all the players from the list, 1-99, who played for winning teams.  Well shit, we're back at square one.  
Have you read Moneyball?  We're not selling jeans, here.  All of Elway's "support" involves voters because Elway's strength was looking the part.  Ramsey ended his career with a better passer rating than Elway, but since he didn't have a hyper-strong arm, he didn't impress voters.  And he had the biggest strike against him - HE WON!  
Gators chomp Nazis

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2018, 07:21:08 PM »
What do you think those voters (for All-American and Pac-10 conference honors in addition to the Heisman) were basing their votes on? Future wins in the NFL? Sure, that makes sense.
Please don't play dumb.  
Gators chomp Nazis

Online SFBadger96

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2018, 07:22:35 PM »
So he gets credit for losing?!?  Why?  Was he not a good-enough leader?  lol  Was he lacking the 'eye of the tiger'?
This ain't tennis. Teams of players determine the wins and losses, not single players. To receive the kind of college accolades Elway did while playing on a bad team is nearly unheard of--unless you played for Notre Dame in the old days, and 1982 Stanford sure as heck wasn't Notre Dame.

Online OrangeAfroMan

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1361
  • Liked:
Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2018, 07:22:46 PM »
All-Time Losers Uniform list:
1-
2-
3-
4-
5-
6-Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
7-John Elway, QB, Stanford
8-
9-
10-
11-Antwaan Randle El, QB/WR, Indiana
12-
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:26:47 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
Gators chomp Nazis

 

Welcome, Guest!!! Please login or register.

From Our Gift Shop:
CFB51 Goofy T-Shirt CFB51 Cap CFB51 Jacket CFB51 Polo
From Our Gift Shop:
CFB51 Goofy T-Shirt CFB51 Cap CFB51 Jacket CFB51 Polo