OT - Nassar

[PSUinNC]

The four letter's involved now....

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/22214566/pattern-denial-inaction-information-suppression-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

[PSUinNC]

The four letter's involved now....

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/22214566/pattern-denial-inaction-information-suppression-michigan-state-goes-larry-nassar-case-espn

Sorry ELA, I think you posted literally seconds before I did.

[PSUinNC]

The ESPN report today is not good.  The basketball one they dug up from 7 years ago is old news, and there's a reason ESPN had refused to run it until now.  So between that and some personal knowledge of the incident, that one doesn't get much credit.

But the football stuff that wasn't known about until now.  That's no good.  Dantonio was applauded last summer for immediate dismissal of four players.  But this outlines 5 previous violent incidents that were not known about.  ESPN does note that in all cases they went to EL or MSU PD, and that in none of the cases were charges ever filed.  They even note that there was no proof any of that news ever made it to the coach.  That what needs to be investigated, did he know?  That's where the investigation better turn.  Did he know?  If not, why?  Why were there no charges filed?  Was there nothing there, or was local PD pressuring women into not pressing charges?  This is nowhere near being over.

State College and PSU police both knew about Sandusky.  Hell, the DA investigated him.  And about the coaches, isn't the the whole crux of the Paterno involvement - how didn't he know??  Using this in MSU's defense won't get them very far, I'm afraid.  
Wow this is starting to get so very vividly and unfortunate mirror the deal with Sandusky....

[ELA]

State College and PSU police both knew about Sandusky.  Hell, the DA investigated him.  And about the coaches, isn't the the whole crux of the Paterno involvement - how didn't he know??  Using this in MSU's defense won't get them very far, I'm afraid.  
Wow this is starting to get so very vividly and unfortunate mirror the deal with Sandusky....

I thought the crux was that he definitely knew, and that he only reported it to his superiors, and didn't follow up with police when nothing happened?  I could be misremembering.
To me, what is most troubling is how bad it is campus wide.  They studied 150 cases and found TWENTY PERCENT were grossly mishandled?  It takes it becoming a sports story for anyone to care (apparently both within MSU and at large) but that is absolutely unacceptable from a campus wide standpoint.

[ELA]

Sort of stream of consciousness is that whether the coaches knew, it seems clear that athletes went through a different process than regular students.  I can't imagine they didn't know that.  And there's no way that's anything bad awful.

Taking back my thought about Hollis, good riddance.

I also, upon re-read noticed that while the complainant asked in all 6 cases not to press charges, that they had to report it to MSU (I'm assuming to Title IX?).  Now that is confidential, so that doesn't mean anyone would know.  But I think it's important to know if that was followed or not.  If not...all six times.  That suggests something more nefarious to me too.  In the end, even if Izzo/Dantonio didn't know, or acted appropriately in the case they did, it seems like MSU went to a lot of trouble to make sure they wouldn't know, give them plausible deniability.

[CatsbyAZ]

Fourth, I would feel horrible for the women/girls of State of Michigan if they took away the gymnastics program or their scholarships as it is punishing them for the sins of Larry Nassar. I feel as if the NCAA should force MSU to give more scholarships for women's gymnastics, or retroactively give scholarships to women who had less than a full ride and were adversely effected by Nassar, and pay off their student loans, or something more positive than ruining the program.

Disagree. It is worth scrapping the whole gymnastics program. There is zero sense in feeling sorry for the current gymnasts in context of the bigger picture. For the current athletes this isn't even as bad as your typical job layoff. In similar situations where current athletes absorb collateral damage the NCAA allows the scholarship to stand and the student to transfer without the one year waiting period. Or grandfather out the program if the current athletes are that big of a sentimental deal.

[SFBadger96]

Although I, too, wonder about how the judge conducted herself, it is worth reading this and contemplating how it all fits together:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/24/us/rachael-denhollander-full-statement/index.html

[Hawkinole]

Rachael Denhollander is really the hero here. She appears to be very intelligent. She anticipated there were other victim complainants whose complaints must have been given short shrift. She thought this through about as completely as one could think it. Denhollander brought with her literature that contravenes the literature she anticipated Larry Nassar must be  relying upon to defend himself.

She had her medical records, her old journals prepared a decade earlier regarding her experience and her feelings in the aftermath. Denhollander was prepared to show her medical records did not contain evidence of penetration and that Nassar was concealing from his records what he did to her.

The Olympians who were abused but whose complaints to USA Gymnastics were ignored have this non-Olympian's "Olympic" effort to thank for bringing this to the attention to law enforcement and prosecutors. She thought like a lawyer, and survivor.

She alone -- well working with others -- but without her it wouldn't have stopped -- likely saved 100s of women and juvenile females from sexual abuse.

This is a worthwhile read:


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/01/26/larry-nassar-michigan-state-university-investigation/1069151001/

[Hawkinole]

If you are a coach, or administrator at MSU, and you had knowledge (even if only 2nd-hand) of abuse involving Nassar, or knowledge of other abuses of women or girls remotely tied to the athletic department, the aura of uncertainty must be palpable.

A resignation could help make it more difficult for investigators at MSU to unearth persons having second hand knowledge. Well-Timed retirements or resignations may salvage reputations. I would guess there could be others still searching their consciences about what to do relative to their professional life.

I have a bad feeling the aftermath will be lengthy, and brutal, and almost as highly publicized as this week's sentencing proceedings. We will see.

[MaximumSam]

Not wildly impressed by the OTL report.  Again, when the police conclude there was no criminal activity, it is very difficult for non police people to react in a satisfactory way.  You can either just conclude the opposite and treat everyone as guilty, you can toss it under the rug, you can make people run sprints.  

Honestly, I'm thinking the criticism here is less about process and more about just being upset that Nassar got away with it for so long.  But he was investigated repeatedly and authorities kept concluding he was not sexually abusing people until they found a bunch of child porn.  I'm sure digging deep enough will uncover enough to fault somebody for something, but as an overall process I'm not convinced there were major problems.

[847badgerfan]

One of two things needs to happen here for MSU.

First, I'm going to completely dismiss the EfuPN garbage. They are just garbage, just above (maybe) TMZ.

Now...

Either Dantonio or Izzo needs to step up and go the Alvarez route. Be the AD and still coach, while grooming the next coach. That to me is the only way MSU athletics continues to thrive.

And yeah, get rid of gymnastics.

All the "old man coach hugging young girl stuff" has always creeped me out anyway.

Bye.

[847badgerfan]

By the way... Sometimes I feel like I need to get my law degree to continue to post here.

I took some law (one class) in my last semester of engineering at UW (got admitted to the law school, needed an elective) but I didn't like to read. That was HARD on me.

I think I might have the patience to read now. Maybe I'll do it when I'm out of my company in 4 years. I'll need something to do anyway, and then I could keep up here.

[mcwterps1]

It's all okay though. 

All you have to do is say, "fake news", and it's fine. 

Deny it fully, and forget it ever happened. 

I personally don't believe Dantonio is in any wrong, just mirroring the sadness of today's climate. 

[847badgerfan]

Ummm...