header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

 (Read 215406 times)

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1134 on: December 10, 2018, 02:13:44 PM »
Just speaking as a Sooner fan, given the rivalry, the purpose is to say we are going to beat your ass.  It’s more of a “let’s get it on, beeatch” than anything more nefarious or odious or noxious or disrespectfulious.  I can’t speak for all Sooners on this because certainly when we’re hearing a cascading cacophony of callous Horn calls all saying “OU Sux”, well there might be some tit for tat agoing on here.  But for me the Horns down just means either we just beat your ass (Dec 1 in this case) or we’re about to beat your ass (next Oct).
IOW, Scoreboard
Bee-otch
The thing is, you don't get to decide on behalf of Longhorn fans whether or not it should be offensive.  Your intent of not being nefarious is completely irrelevant.
And yes, Longhorn fans have long said "ou sucks."  If the players were doing it, on the field, and the officials caught it and flagged them for it, that would be completely within the rules as well.
I think the rule is stupid and impossible to enforce evenly.  But as long as it's a rule, then horns-down is an obvious taunt.  That it's gone this long without being called is odd.

Shiner

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1135 on: December 10, 2018, 02:29:07 PM »
 That it's gone this long without being called is odd.
Not really. 
Like you said yourself... this is a sport played by adults.  I too think they can handle the horns down without crying about it.
It seemed like everyone got along just fine for the longest time with horns up and horns down without the need for penalties.  Everyone was a grown up so I'm not surprised at all it went this long without being called.    As I said, I tend to doubt a school hand gesture was what the rule makers had in mind when they instituted the taunting rule.

Appears it wasn't until longhorn football coaches (at least according to the article) starting complaining that it became an issue... mostly notably Herman.  And voila.... here we are.  Horns down is a penalty.  

CharleyHorse46

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1136 on: December 10, 2018, 02:35:06 PM »
But, this is one of the many reasons I'm fine with eliminating all of the taunting rules.  Giving the officials LESS subjective crap to call, can only be an improvement.

Ed Zachary.
One thing that's always amused me about the enforcement of the taunting penalty is how it has often targeted the offensive players but not the defensive ones.
A safety on a blitz can get a sack, do the didn't see me, shoot an imaginary arrow into the stands, shovel an imaginary pile of dirt on the prone QB and even drop his imaginary pants and drop an imaginary deuce on the QB and it's all good clean fun.
A wide receiver shakes his head while crossing the goal line and it's taunting.
I exaggerate but not by much.
It's like the the blind eye to defender's taunting make up for the legion of rules giving the offense every advantage.
Taunting is fun.  Don't want to be taunted, don't let the other team have a big play.

CousinFreddie

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1137 on: December 10, 2018, 02:36:23 PM »
Referring to the last post by utee: Back to your defense of the “rights of the offended to be offended” argument, with sincere comments made by the other side written off as irrelevant.  Ok sure be offended.  It’s your right by gar.

As for what happens on the field, I’m not a big fan of refs being able to change the outcome of the game based on subjectively determined side issues that don’t amount to anything.  If taunting leads to a brawl, okay penalize em.  But players giving each lip across the lines etc, no big deal, as long as it doesn’t lead to a physical fight.  That’s just part of the game, and it will always be part of it.



« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 02:37:58 PM by CousinFreddie »

CousinFreddie

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1138 on: December 10, 2018, 02:39:27 PM »
Huh, I find myself in agreement with both Shiner and Hooky at the same time on this one.  Weird ...

CharleyHorse46

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1139 on: December 10, 2018, 02:40:30 PM »
... at least according to the article...
Are you unfamiliar with Mac Engle?
He doesn't report the news.  He isn't even aware of what's going on.
I remember in 2013 when Texas had narrowed Mack's replacement down to Charlie Strong , James Franklin and David Shaw, Mac Engle wrote a long article chiding Texas for not considering a minority candidate.
9 times out of 10 when I read something idiotic, Engle's name is on the byline.
The guy is a complete moron.  I wouldn't believe a word he says.  He's the biggest joke in the dying industry of print journalism.

CharleyHorse46

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1140 on: December 10, 2018, 02:47:08 PM »
Google "mac engel idiot"

399,000 results

Links to Killerfrogs, texags, the Star Telegram itself, etc...

The guy is thoroughly unreliable and universally despised.

Shiner

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1141 on: December 10, 2018, 03:14:14 PM »
He could be a complete moron for all I know.  He's a "journalist" afterall.  The bar is set quite low.

That said, is the article I linked getting facts wrong?  If so, please clarify.

CousinFreddie

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1142 on: December 10, 2018, 03:16:58 PM »
I just read an article from nov 28 where he ended with 

Ok?  Cool.  Hook’em

Sounds like something a moron would say for sure

j/k guys - lol

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1143 on: December 10, 2018, 03:29:14 PM »
If anyone on the Texas side complained, I have zero doubt that it was something like, "Hey, if you're going to call the horns-up as taunting, and if you're going to call the holstering pistols as taunting, then you should also be calling the horns-down as taunting.

Which is 100% correct, so I have no problem with a conversation like that happening.

Shiner

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1144 on: December 10, 2018, 03:42:51 PM »
And you just described the slippery slope.

Personally, I'm against legislating hand signs..... but then.... I'm not a flaming liberal either.  

To each their own I guess.  

CharleyHorse46

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1145 on: December 10, 2018, 04:03:18 PM »
He could be a complete moron for all I know.  He's a "journalist" afterall.  The bar is set quite low.

That said, is the article I linked getting facts wrong?  If so, please clarify.
Come on, Huckleberry.   You're an intelligent, educated man.  Don't pretend you've read something that isn't there.  Where in that article does it draw a documented correlation between Texas/Tom Herman and the rule?
It's not journalism.  It's an opinion piece that basically opines that if horns down is a penalty, then horns up should be a penalty too.  
After whining about how horns up is "disrespectful and hurtful," and "deeply disrespectful" he has the incredible absence of self-awareness to talk about "snowflakes."
Nowhere in that article does Egel explicitly say that the Big 12 imposed the rule because Tom Herman asked Bob Bowlsby to do so.  
Nowhere in any of the articles Engle links (one of which was a Burnt Orange Nation article that called penalties for horns down "ridiculous") does it explicitly say that the Big 12 imposed the rule because Tom Herman asked Bob Bowlsby to do so.  
Engel does his best to imply it with statements like, "The person in the middle of this crisis? My Tommy Boy."
But he doesn't back it up with any facts.  He just talks about Herman taunting the Missouri quarterback, and how Herman is a hypocrite.
If you're writing an article about how Herman is so upset about horns down, don't you think most intelligent writers would maybe add something... like... oh I don't know... a quote by Herman perhaps, complaining about horns down.
Would you like to know what Tom Herman really said about horns down, when somebody actually asked him about it?  He said, "we're used to it."
https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-Football-Tom-Herman-weighs-in-on-Oklahoma-Sooners-Lincoln-Riley-Horns-down-controversy-Big-12-championship-125595502/
Granted he said a lot of stuff about handling ourselves with class and how people have always disrespected Texas and granted comments like that can be laughed at by detractors.  Heck, I even find them ironically amusing and I'm a Texas fan.
But to jump from that to calling him a snowflake and saying with (undocumented) authority that he (as Mac Engel contends or the Texas fan base, like you first asserted, Huckleberry) is the reason the Big 12 calls those penalties is a leap of wishful thinking, unsupported by any evidence.
Especially unsupported by anything in that crap article.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 04:05:38 PM by CharleyHorse46 »

Shiner

  • Red Shirt
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1146 on: December 10, 2018, 04:17:36 PM »
That is a very long winded post.  You seem a bit sensitive to this issue.



Maybe Engel isn't such an idiot and is on to something afterall.  

CousinFreddie

  • Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 861
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1147 on: December 10, 2018, 04:36:17 PM »
I hadn't been paying attention to this tempest in a UT-pot until now, but definitely Tom Herman is out to lunch on this imo.  Forget the sportswriters.  I just saw a video clip of Coach Herman himself after the WVU game arguing that a WVU touchdown should be reversed because a WVU player did the horns down thing.  Are you kidding me?  That's complete chicken shit.  No two ways about it.

Texas has a cool hand signal.  This is well known.  They're a successful program and the envy of others.  They're gonna catch some flak about it.  We Sooners catch flak all the time, via all manner of BS, in fact the whole "OU Sux" machine based in Texas is practically a cottage industry all on its own.  I don't see our coaches or players whining about it.  But I do see them going out and showing the haters how to win on the field. 

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.