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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
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Cincydawg · « **Reply #5026 on:** June 24, 2023, 07:17:52 AM »

Quote from: CWSooner on June 23, 2023, 10:54:09 PM

Well, what can I say? I will cease trying to convince you otherwise.

I hope you enjoyed your tour.

I was with my wife whose interest in such things is pretty limited, so it was a quick tour. I've read about the differences between the NC and SD classes, to me they aren't visually that obvious, even the Iowas look similar, to me. The Texas would not.

In fairness, I "dragged" my wife all over Europe touring battlefields and museums on one trip. It was great for me, she mentioned later it got a bit tiresome.

CWSooner · « **Reply #5027 on:** June 24, 2023, 09:58:18 PM »

Texas looks more like HMS Dreadnought than it does those last three U.S. Navy battleship classes. She was commissioned in 1914, a few months before WWI began, only eight years after Dreadnought was commissioned. And she wasn't particularly modern when she was built. The indentations at the top of the hull for the near-useless casemate-mounted 5" secondary guns harken back to the ships of the Great White Fleet.

She was modernized over the years, adding anti-torpedo blisters and losing her original cage masts and most of those secondary guns in the process, but her basic structure was very old-fashioned. That's why I'd like to visit her sometime.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #5028 on:** June 24, 2023, 10:42:39 PM »

Im wondering if they will paint her Pacific blue or the grayish color used in the Atlantic

longhorn320 · « **Reply #5029 on:** June 24, 2023, 10:57:40 PM »

Here is the blue

longhorn320 · « **Reply #5030 on:** June 24, 2023, 11:04:16 PM »

Here is the Gray

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5031 on:** June 25, 2023, 05:39:28 AM »

That mid-nonsuperfiring battery is a give away, and why I'd like to see it as well. There was a "step change" when the new BBs started rolling out starting with the NC.

CWSooner · « **Reply #5032 on:** June 25, 2023, 12:01:48 PM »

Re the different paint schemes, the Font of All Wisdom and Knowledge explains them here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_ship_camouflage_measures_of_the_United_States_Navy.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5033 on:** June 25, 2023, 12:04:07 PM »

I have wondered if the various camo jobs really affect anything. Maybe torpedo attacks?

CWSooner · « **Reply #5034 on:** June 25, 2023, 12:34:15 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 05:39:28 AM

That mid-nonsuperfiring battery is a give away, and why I'd like to see it as well. There was a "step change" when the new BBs started rolling out starting with the NC.

Yep. The New York/Texas class was the last to have the midships battery, which was another similarity to HMS Dreadnought.
The ensuing classes of Nevada, Pennsylvania, and New Mexico retained the casemate-mounted 5" secondary guns.
The subsequent Tennessee and Colorado classes did not have them.
Those post-Texas classes were called "Standard" battleships, because they were all 21-knot ships with similar turning radii, and 10 14" guns, except for the Colorados, which had 8 16" guns. Changes from class to class were incremental.

North Carolina class was, as you noted, the big change. She was a "fast battleship" at 28 knots and 9 16" guns.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5035 on:** June 25, 2023, 12:43:22 PM »

The shift to the three triple turrets was significant I think, along with the increase in speed and some loss of armor. Then you have the 5" 38 caliber secondary twin turrets all over the place, five on each side. When those were combined with proximity fuses ...

CWSooner · « **Reply #5036 on:** June 25, 2023, 04:28:27 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 12:04:07 PM

I have wondered if the various camo jobs really affect anything. Maybe torpedo attacks?

Here's the purpose, per the Font:

Quote

In 1935, the United States Navy Naval Research Laboratory began studies and tests on low visibility ship camouflage. Research continued through World War II to (1) reduce visibility by painting vertical surfaces to harmonize with the horizon and horizontal surfaces to blend with the sea, or (2) confuse identity and course by painting obtrusive patterns on vertical surfaces.

It's a difficult problem. To protect against being sighted by surface ships and submarines, the vertical surfaces of the ship should be the same color as the sky. But the sky is different colors and different shades depending on weather and light.
To protect against aerial sighting, the whole ship ideally would be painted the color of the sea, which, of course, changes through the course of the day and night. And a ship's vertical surfaces create reflections and shadows, and the ship leaves a wake no matter how it is camouflaged.
Measures 11 and 21 proved to be reasonably effective against aerial observation when used in the Mediterranean and Pacific.

Quote

Measure 11 Sea Blue (5-S) overall, with horizontal surfaces (including wooden portions) painted Deck Blue (20-B). All visible canvas boat covers, tarpaulins and windscreens to be dyed in a color to match Deck Blue. It was used in the Pacific and Mediterranean for concealment from aircraft. Royal Navy submarines operating in the Mediterranean used a similar scheme.^[1] During the Battle of the Coral Sea and the Battle of Midway, ships wearing Measure 11 came under attack less often than ships wearing Measure 12.

Quote

Measure 21 On the advice of United States aviators, Measure 11's Sea Blue was replaced by darker Navy Blue and the scheme designated Measure 21 in mid-1942.^[6] Overall Navy Blue (5-N), with decks in dark Deck Blue (20-B). This measure was used extensively in the western and southern Pacific from September 1942 through 1945 to minimize detection and identification by enemy aircraft.^[19] "Useful where greatest danger is from the air and high surface visibility must be accepted... Lowest visibility to aerial observers day and night in all types of weather. Low visibility under searchlight. High visibility to all surface observers in all types of weather."^[18] Measure 21 also proved effective under artificial illumination during night actions. Upper surfaces of aircraft operating from carrier decks were painted a similar shade of blue. Sailors were ordered to wear dungarees rather than white uniforms when topside, and white "Dixie cup" hats were dyed blue.^[6] USS Texas is, as of 2017, painted in Measure 21 as she was in 1945.^[20]

CWSooner · « **Reply #5037 on:** June 25, 2023, 04:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on June 25, 2023, 12:43:22 PM

The shift to the three triple turrets was significant I think, along with the increase in speed and some loss of armor. Then you have the 5" 38 caliber secondary twin turrets all over the place, five on each side. When those were combined with proximity fuses ...

The first ship model I ever built was of USS New Jersey. I was probably 10. I think I assumed that three triple turrets--two forward and one aft--was just the natural layout for main guns on a battleship. Bismarck--with four twin turrets--was probably the battleship that made me realize otherwise.
The U.S. Navy didn't really like the idea of unequal armament at the ends of the ship. The "Standards" had all had equal main-gun armament at both ends (The Colorado class had had four twin turrets of 16" guns). In trying to get the maximum-feasible number of 16" guns, it went to three triple turrets by necessity. The Montana-class ships, had they been built, would have had four triple turrets of 16" guns.
The really goofy layouts for main guns were on HMS Nelson and her sister-ship HMS Rodney. Three triple 16" turrets, all mounted forward of the superstructure. Built under the provisions of the Washington Naval Treaty, they were an attempt to get maximum armament possible (to match or exceed the U.S. Colorados) with reasonable armor and speed without exceeding the treaty limits.

HMS Nelson

Cincydawg · « **Reply #5038 on:** June 25, 2023, 04:55:13 PM »

As they were mostly used for shore bombardment, (and AA) the utility of the mid-mount would have been OK, pack in five double mount 14" guns for shore service.

CWSooner · « **Reply #5039 on:** June 25, 2023, 04:59:18 PM »

The U.S. Navy's 14" gun was one of the finest naval rifles ever produced. Too bad that armor increased and bigger guns were needed.

The 5"/38 cal. that you mentioned earlier has to have been one of the very best secondary guns of WWII.

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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

Cincydawg

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

longhorn320

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

longhorn320

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

longhorn320

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

Cincydawg

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

Cincydawg

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

Cincydawg

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

Cincydawg

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

CWSooner

Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.