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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3612 on: April 19, 2022, 04:42:16 PM »
Saban's acolytes have generally fared well as coaches, right?  They even managed to beat him on rare occasion.

His tree is pretty impressive.  I'll have more fun watching Texas in the upcoming because of this discussion.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3613 on: April 19, 2022, 04:49:48 PM »
Yes, I'm sure that Sark left Bama smarter (in running a football program) than he was when he got there.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 06:26:20 PM by CWSooner »
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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3614 on: April 19, 2022, 04:54:50 PM »
Saban's acolytes have generally fared well as coaches, right?  They even managed to beat him on rare occasion.

His tree is pretty impressive.  I'll have more fun watching Texas in the upcoming because of this discussion.
In an underperforming program (like Oklahoma in the '90s), the new HFC hire is always going to be the guy who is going to turn things around.
Eventually that expectation is fulfilled.
Except when it isn't.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3615 on: April 20, 2022, 05:56:52 AM »
It's a fascinating situation to observe.  Imagine UGA had lost again to Bama, well, Smart wouldn't be fired of course, but the rumblings would be continuing in the background.  And they could well have lost of course.  Had he not delivered in 4-5-6 more years, they might go searching, probably would, even winning the SEC E routinely.

Harbaugh has experienced rumblings obviously.  He finally beat Ohio State, so he's good for a bit (NFL aside).  But his team looked poor in the playoffs.

Riley of course was looking good, and now faces a real challenge (not that it wasn't at OU) of a different kind, rebuilding a Blue Blood.  Man we had a lot of well known coaches leaving this past year.  Why would anyone leave ND for LSU?  Chance to win the NC is better there?

The hot new coach from some G5 program gets a big seat fairly often, and fairly often seems to underperform.  I don't think there is a magic selection criterion here.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3616 on: April 20, 2022, 06:25:51 PM »
Yeah, Brian Kelly to LSU seems like an odd fit, bordering on culture shock.  An Irish-Catholic from Massachusetts in the land of Cajun-Catholics.  Religion would seem to be the only thing in common.

I think that OU is going to be better with Brent Venables than it was doing with Riley.  There has been a bit of snark from national mediots like Cowherd, but I don't know of any OU fans who would rather have Riley back rather than BV.  There is total buy-in from the fan-base and seemingly from the players as well.

I felt like a prophet in the wilderness whom nobody wanted to hear, but I had been saying for something like 18 months that Muleshoe's program was trending gently but steadily downward.  His 1st season was his best, his 2nd season was 2nd-best, etc.  Now he's gone, and everybody and his dog sees the trend.

OU finished 3rd in the Big 12 in Muleshoe's last season.  I think Brent Venables can do that well in his first season.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3617 on: April 21, 2022, 09:05:42 AM »
It's fun to see how these Names do at a new program.  Kelly did a bit better at ND than I expected.  We all know it has to start with recruiting, necessary but insufficient, as A&M could be learning.  How will Rattler fare at USCe or Daniels at WVU?  Story lines.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3618 on: April 23, 2022, 06:41:21 AM »
On April 22, 1889, at high noon, the U.S. Government opened up nearly two million acres of unassigned land in the Indian Territory (now known as Oklahoma) for settlement. What happened next would become known as the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889. 50,000 people on horses, wagons, or their own two feet sprinted into the new lands to stake their claim to the best parcel of ground possible.
The land that made up the Indian Territory had been used as a relocation spot for Native American tribes since 1817, and by the 1880s it was home to such tribes as the Chickasaw, Choctaw, Cherokee, Creek, Cheyenne, Comanche, and Apache. Soon however, it became clear that the lands of the Indian Territory would be very valuable for farming and for ranching. Pressure was put on President Benjamin Harrison to open up some of this land for white settlement. Harrison obliged, picking a two-million-acre area of the territory that had not yet been assigned to any tribe.
As far as seven weeks in advance, land hungry Americans began to gather near the soon to be opened land in an attempt to get the best positions for themselves. When the U.S officially opened the land, 50,000 people entered at once and by the end of the day had established the cities of Guthrie and Oklahoma City, each boasting 10,000 residents.  In addition to the people who had entered the land legally at the prescribed time, there were those who snuck into future Oklahoma before the Land Rush. These people, who became known as “Sooners,” laid low until the rush at which time they were quickly able to stake out the best claims for themselves.
Also, on this day in U.S. history:
1864: The 2-cent coin is minted, marking the first appearance of the phrase “In God We Trust.”
1914: Babe Ruth makes his professional pitching debut, a 6 hit, 6-0 victory.
1944: Helicopters were used for the first time in combat by the U.S. Military in World War II.



Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3619 on: April 23, 2022, 06:41:40 AM »

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3620 on: April 23, 2022, 12:52:35 PM »
It seems that there's some disagreement about that image of "the Oklahoma Land Rush." Wikipedia has a small, somewhat posterized version of it in the article on the 1889 land rush and a full-size version of it in the article on the 1895 land rush.

There were also land rushes in 1891, 1892, and 1893.

The Native Americans, of course, got screwed in the process.
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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3621 on: April 23, 2022, 01:03:41 PM »
If we're going for historical events in April, the 18th of April is my favorite day.

1775: Paul Revere and William Dawes ride to Lexington and Concord to warn Sons of Liberty leaders that "the Regulars are out."

1942: Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle leads 16 Army B-25 bombers off of USS Hornet to bomb Tokyo and other key Japanese cities. This causes the Japanese to revise their strategy, leading to their devastating defeat in the Battle of Midway a month-and-a-half later.

1943: P-38 Lighting fighters from Guadalcanal intercept, shoot down, and kill Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, the architect of the Pearl Harbor raid, as the G4M bomber he was riding started its descent to land for an inspection at Bougainville.
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Gigem

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3622 on: April 23, 2022, 06:10:11 PM »
I’ve often heard of the Doolittle raiders, but how did that force the Japanese to change their strategy ?  


More than anything I thought it was a psychological strike to show the Japanese people that they were vulnerable. 

longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3623 on: April 23, 2022, 06:41:15 PM »
I’ve often heard of the Doolittle raiders, but how did that force the Japanese to change their strategy ? 


More than anything I thought it was a psychological strike to show the Japanese people that they were vulnerable.
that was always my take on it
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3624 on: April 23, 2022, 10:16:19 PM »
Maybe this has something to do with me not liking the looks of the C8 Corvette.

It's got a trunk behind the engine.
It's got a trunk behind the engine.
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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #3625 on: April 23, 2022, 11:06:50 PM »
I’ve often heard of the Doolittle raiders, but how did that force the Japanese to change their strategy ? 


More than anything I thought it was a psychological strike to show the Japanese people that they were vulnerable.
So, by mid-April 1942, the Japanese had been successful in overrunning French Indochina, Wake Island, the Philippines, the north coast of New Guinea, and the Dutch East Indies.  The question was what to do next.
Understand something: the Japanese Army and the Japanese Navy hated each other so much that their relationship makes the OU-Texas game look like a love-in.
The Japanese Army wanted to expand its operations in China.
The Japanese Navy was split on what to do.  The Navy General Staff wanted to expand the New Guinea campaign with an invasion of Port Moresby on the south coast. That would enable them to bomb and potentially invade Australia. Even if they never invaded Australia, they could make it untenable for use as a base from which the Allies could advance northward into the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
But Admiral Yamamoto, architect of the Pearl Harbor raid, Commanding Officer of the Combined Fleet, believed that the navy's first priority needed to be the destruction of the U.S. carrier fleet. Yamamoto was so certain about this that he was implying that he would resign if he didn't get his way.
The Doolittle Raid took place in the middle of this debate. It did shock and alarm the Japanese, especially as one of the B-25s dropped bombs within earshot of the Imperial Palace. It was obvious that the B-25s must have come from a carrier, odd as it seemed, because the Allies had no bases from which B-25s could reach Japan. So this strengthened Yamamoto's argument.
The Japanese Army and Navy did not agree on a combined effort. But within the Navy, Yamamoto's argument carried the day.  Sort of.
The preparations for the operation to capture Port Moresby were too far advanced to easily cancel them. So a compromise was reached.
The Moresby operation (Operation MO) would go on as scheduled, in early May, but with reduced resources and a reduced objective. Then, in early June, Yamamoto would launch the Midway operation (Operation MI) to capture Midway Island in order to force to U.S. carriers to come out and fight, as Midway is too close to the main islands of Hawaii for the U.S. to allow Japan to hold it. When the U.S. carriers came out, the Japanese carriers would launch air strikes to destroy them. Oh, the Japanese would also launch an operation in the Aleutian Islands (Operation AL) to gain bases from which to threaten Alaska.
So, Operation MO went off, but our crypto guys in Hawaii figured out enough of it so that we had two task forces--built around the carriers USS Yorktown and USS Lexington--operating in the Coral Sea in position to attack the Moresby invasion fleet.
The ensuing Battle of the Coral Sea was the first naval battle in which the ships never spotted each other--it was all done by airplanes. It was a tactical victory for the Japanese, as we sank the light carrier Shoho and damaged one of the two best fleet carriers in the world--Shokaku--while we lost one of our two largest carriers--Lexington--and got the somewhat smaller but more efficient fleet carrier Yorktown damaged. Strategically, it was an Allied victory, as the Port Moresby invasion fleet was turned back. This was the first setback for the Japanese, although they chose not to recognize it as such. They counted ships and tonnage sunk and concluded that it had been a victory. There would be another time to come back and capture Port Moresby after they eliminated the U.S. carriers in Operation MI.
But Shokaku--though not extensively damaged--would not even get into dry dock until after Operation MI. Just as bad--from the Japanese perspective--her sister ship Zuikaku had taken serious losses to her air group. Japanese doctrine at the time considered the air group to be part of the ship's crew. Whereas the U.S. Navy would have taken an intact air group from a damaged ship and either replaced the shot-up air group or provided enough replacements to get it back up to full strength. But the Japanese didn't do it that way. So both Shokaku and Zuikaku would be unavailable for Operation MI.
So the Japanese only had four carriers rather than six with which to attack Midway and then to destroy the U.S. carriers. They thought that that would be plenty. They figured that they had either sunk Yorktown or damaged her so badly that she would out of action for a long time at Coral Sea.  In reality, Yorktown steamed back to Pearl Harbor right into dry dock and the workmen went right into action to repair her. They worked round the clock for the next 72 hours, whereupon Yorktown--with her air group augmented by aircraft and crews from USS Saratoga, Lexington's sister, who was on her way back to Pearl from a refit on the West Coast--steamed out with the  escorts of her Task Force 17, and headed for a point NE of Midway, to join Task Force 16, with her two sister-ships, Enterprise and Hornet (who had not gotten back from the Doolittle Raid in time for the Coral Sea).
So, in carriers, the odds at Midway, in the first week of June, were 4-3 in favor of the Japanese, not 6-3, not 5-3, and not 4-2. And we got lucky. The Japanese conducted carrier strikes much better than we did, but we struck first, before they even knew that we had carriers in the vicinity of Midway. We sank or mortally wounded three Japanese carriers between 1020 and 1030 on 4 June 1942. The one Japanese carrier left, Hiryu, hit Yorktown twice, mortally wounding her, before strikes from Yorktown and Enterprise sank Hiryu. (Hornet's air group was pretty worthless at Midway. Just how worthless was covered up at the time and has only in recent years been fully understood.)
So, the Doolittle Raid caused Operation MO to be done half-assed, resulting in the temporary loss of the two best aircraft carriers in the world. This caused the Japanese carrier striking force to be at 2/3 strength for the Battle of Midway, which was an incredible victory for the Americans and a devastating defeat for the Japanese.
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