header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

 (Read 215766 times)

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2688 on: September 15, 2021, 11:49:40 AM »
I have no team.

I'm willing to join yours though, if the price is right.  My contractual fees are steep and must be paid in full, up front.


MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2689 on: September 15, 2021, 12:30:08 PM »

But the sole message from government and all public officials right now, needs to be, get the vaccine, because it works and all outcomes are significantly improved.

I agree, but would add that even this doesn't cover the full spectrum of the nuanced situation re: vaccines.  Unless you're simply saying since people can't process much info at once, then this should be the main message.  In which case, I don't necessarily disagree with it, but would maintain there's more to consider than "Yes, get vaccinated."  (fyi, I consider myself pro-vax, and got vaccinated, though I probably did it for different reasons than the average person.)  But there's still so much missing here.  Not misinformation, but incomplete. 

I'm going to share my thoughts in another post, but because lot of you have the attention span of kindergarterners and can't handle TLDR, the above is my basic view.  Feel free to skip the next one.  

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2690 on: September 15, 2021, 12:32:57 PM »
I agree, but would add that even this doesn't cover the full spectrum of the nuanced situation re: vaccines.  Unless you're simply saying since people can't process much info at once, then this should be the main message.  In which case, I don't necessarily disagree with it, but would maintain there's more to consider than "Yes, get vaccinated."  (fyi, I consider myself pro-vax, and got vaccinated, though I probably did it for different reasons than the average person.)  But there's still so much missing here.  Not misinformation, but incomplete. 

I'm going to share my thoughts in another post, but because lot of you have the attention span of kindergarterners and can't handle TLDR, the above is my basic view.  Feel free to skip the next one. 
I stated my assumptions-- people are stupid or lazy or both.  

One message, and one message only.  There is no tolerance for nuance, so don't attempt to deliver it.

Cut out all of the noise and send the message.  

Get vaccinated.

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2691 on: September 15, 2021, 12:41:07 PM »
Some other issues re: solely the vaccine conversation:

Many of our vax'd patients think they got vax'd, it's all good, never to worry.  But not so.  We know that there's about an 8 month limit on the antibodies once you've been vax'd.  After that, the vax isn't going to do you much good, if any.  Nobody presents this as something that, as it stands now, you'll have to keep doing over and over periodically.  That's something to consider. 

They also think you can't get covid if vax'd.  Also not so.  Your chances of needing hospitalization and/or dying from it are profoundly reduced, but you can still get it.  Although you may not, so there's no hard and fast rule there.  Wife and I just got through with covid even though we were still (barely) within the 8 month window.  There's no way for us to know if we still had antibodies, and how much, the PCR tests we took didn't distinguish between IgN and IgA.  All we know is we had much milder cases compared to many we know who did not vax, and we were still within the 8 month window.

At any rate, now we fall into the category of people with naturally produced antibodies, which are a bit stronger and last longer (about 10ish months, last I heard) than the vaccine would provide.  So before covid we would've either soon been due for some sort of booster or been unprotected.  Now there's no point in us thinking about this again for another 10 months.  In the meantime, people can get lost who tell me to re-vax or I suck.  This includes the commander in chief who is losing patience with me, I reckon.  The larger point is there's been no consideration for people who've had covid when directing the ire of the people in charge that I've seen.  Health Departments work so hard to keep track of covid cases....well, that means they have a list of people who need to stop being bothering about vaxing, at least for a while.  Those numbers need to be counted when considering "making our population safe," but they're not.  They erroneously use total numbers, which are worthless when considering the intent.  People who had covid need to be in the "marked safe from political scorn" category, at least for a while.  And people who are vax'd do not get to stay in that category indefinitely.  Our bodies don't work that way, and if they yell about "ignoring the science" I'm inclined to tell them to mix the science with some philosophy and statistics and get back to me.  

There's also that tiny % of the population that shouldn't get vaccinated.  It's a great idea to check with one's doctor, somebody who either knows one's medical history or at least can be told it.  I see the point of ignoring this, this is such a small group of people that it's probably not worth fooling with, and god knows if our patients are any indication, you start saying stuff like this and suddenly everybody thinks they're in that special category of people who shouldn't be vax'd.  Nevertheless, it's a thing.  We have one patient whom Doc told her family do not vaccinate her.  They got freaked out by the messaging and did it anyway, and this young woman had a terrible reaction.  Fortunately they were persuaded after that not to do the second shot.  

And of course, none of this even touches the non-medical aspects of things.  To wit, I'm pro-vax but anti-mandate.  I don't want the government or (most) employers or anyone else telling people what they will and won't inject.  Because, quite simply, this is not merely a medical issue, despite the fact its repeatedly presented as one.  And there's a MAJOR problem with the messaging here.  Either the government wants us to think vaccines work or they don't.  Supposedly they do, so it's ridiculous for all the vaccinated people to go around demanding the unvax'd join their camp.  If the vaccines work, then you're protected.  Shut up and let other people do what they want to do.  At this point virtually everyone who wants to be vaccinated has been.  I wanted to, and I was.  It's not my place to make that decision for others, and I can't say "It's not about protecting you, it's about protecting others" because that's ridiculous if the vaccines work.  I vax'd....I'm protected whether anybody else vax'd or not.  If somebody else couldn't be bothered to get a free vaccine, or didn't want it, it's not my job to make them put on a life jacket, and they're no danger to me if the vaccines work.

And finally, "they" talk like this is going to be over with at some point if we just do the "right things."  This is misleading and, I think, probably intentionally so.  The sad reality is this thing is here.  It's mutating at a heretofore unseen rate.  It's also showing early signs of being the "smartest" virus we've encountered in its adaptability and ability to find ways to mutate to infect previously immune systems.  At best, it's like the flu....it's here, it's in the population, it's always changing with a new strain annually, you have to deal with this every year, you can take this year's flu vaccine or not, and know that some years "they" get it pretty spot on, and other years the flu vaccine is much less effective.  At worst--and I hope this is not the case but it's not out of the question--this thing mutates faster and more efficiently than we have any hope of keeping on top of with new vaccines, and this is just a thing that we all live with in our society now.  The messaging has been "Do what we say and we'll get you through this and it will all be over if you bend the knee."  I've been told nothing and seen nothing to make me think this is the case.  This is not going away, and shame on politicians for misleading with their stupidity, or intentionally lying for their gain.  



MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2692 on: September 15, 2021, 12:50:08 PM »
I stated my assumptions-- people are stupid or lazy or both. 

One message, and one message only.  There is no tolerance for nuance, so don't attempt to deliver it.

Cut out all of the noise and send the message. 

Get vaccinated.

That message has been sent repeatedly.  My concern is without nuance that message quickly turns into mandates.  As a society we'd better work on our nuance, or we're toast. 

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9327
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2693 on: September 15, 2021, 12:57:44 PM »
Some other issues re: solely the vaccine conversation:

Many of our vax'd patients think they got vax'd, it's all good, never to worry.  But not so.  We know that there's about an 8 month limit on the antibodies once you've been vax'd.  After that, the vax isn't going to do you much good, if any.  Nobody presents this as something that, as it stands now, you'll have to keep doing over and over periodically.  That's something to consider. 


How do we know that?  Ive not seen anything saying that.
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 9327
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2694 on: September 15, 2021, 01:03:10 PM »


And finally, "they" talk like this is going to be over with at some point if we just do the "right things."  This is misleading and, I think, probably intentionally so.  The sad reality is this thing is here.  It's mutating at a heretofore unseen rate.  It's also showing early signs of being the "smartest" virus we've encountered in its adaptability and ability to find ways to mutate to infect previously immune systems.  
again where did you get this info.  Not trying to say you are wrong but unless you have some good source its just your opinion
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2695 on: September 15, 2021, 01:08:14 PM »
I assume from the studies my boss and my wife read.  Me personally, my info comes from them.  I'm not capable of reading a scientific journal article on medicine/covid, but they do.  Mrs. DeTiger, to stay up on things.  My boss, because it's her job.

Like everything else, things may change the more data that comes in.  

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25208
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2696 on: September 15, 2021, 01:11:11 PM »
How do we know that?  Ive not seen anything saying that.
We don't. Yet.

The FDA (and the folks resigning from it) seems to believe a booster is not needed.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37520
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2697 on: September 15, 2021, 01:11:26 PM »
Some other issues re: solely the vaccine conversation:

holy moly!!!


I'm stealing this post, because it is ed zachery how I think about the Vax.

Thanks for typing it so well.

Copy & paste 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25208
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2698 on: September 15, 2021, 01:12:25 PM »
I assume from the studies my boss and my wife read.  Me personally, my info comes from them.  I'm not capable of reading a scientific journal article on medicine/covid, but they do.  Mrs. DeTiger, to stay up on things.  My boss, because it's her job.

Like everything else, things may change the more data that comes in. 
Of course. There may be only one or two people who really know what this thing is, and it's quite possible they have disappeared.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17672
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2699 on: September 15, 2021, 01:14:52 PM »
That message has been sent repeatedly.  My concern is without nuance that message quickly turns into mandates.  As a society we'd better work on our nuance, or we're toast. 
That message has NOT been sent repeatedly.  It's been mixed up with masking messaging, and social distancing messaging, and all sorts of other distractions that are counterproductive.

One message-- get the vaccine.  

That's it.

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2700 on: September 15, 2021, 01:17:43 PM »
Here's one thing I do know, not exactly first-hand, I guess this would be second-hand.  Since it's inappropriate to treat yourself and close family, the doc I work for is the doctor to some other doctors in the area, and one of them is also her doctor.  We have some dealings with him because of this.  Speaking with us at our office recently, he had tested his antibodies 8 months after vax'ing because he has some co-morbidities, so he needs to avoid covid if possible, and because he was getting the same info.  His test showed no antibodies.  Similar to not having vaccinated, in other words.  This would be the one and only person I have any non-theoretical knowledge of, but it fits with what Doc and the missus tell me.  It's not going to be hard and fast.  8 months is an average. 

I wouldn't let this sway people from vaccinating.  The vaccines are very effective at stopping serious cases.  I believe they are overall a good idea, by far.  I'm only pointing out right now it seems there's a time-stamp on that effectiveness.  


MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2701 on: September 15, 2021, 01:20:27 PM »
That message has NOT been sent repeatedly.  It's been mixed up with masking messaging, and social distancing messaging, and all sorts of other distractions that are counterproductive.

One message-- get the vaccine. 

That's it.

Okay, I see what you're saying.  

Do you think there's a risk of things still going off track, though?  I'm not asking if you're pro or anti-mandate.  Only asking if you think the harder and more simply "get vaccinated" is pushed, if that has potential to morph from messaging to mandates.  

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.