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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2674 on: September 15, 2021, 10:03:54 AM »
The only thread on this board that is actively moderated against politics, is the Coronavirus thread.  

I think folks are pretty free to discuss politics openly, anywhere else.  But just be warned that, just like every other place on the internet, almost all political discussion on this message board inevitably devolves into bullshit identity politics, talking points, ignoring the other point of view, my team is the only good team and your team sucks, etc.  

In other words, it's pretty pointless.


utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2675 on: September 15, 2021, 10:06:23 AM »
But I'm certainly on-board with questioning the intelligence and/or sanity of people that vote a certain way, then leave that state because it becomes a mess, come to a different place, and then try to vote the same way they did in the previous place, with the misplaced expectation that it will somehow not also lead to an inevitable mess.


847badgerfan

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2676 on: September 15, 2021, 10:07:29 AM »
I'd rather talk policy than politics, but that's a fine line too. So...
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utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2677 on: September 15, 2021, 10:13:24 AM »
When people actually do bother to talk policy, it usually results in a slightly more nuanced discussion.

But I still find that, because policies tend to break along party lines, it still invariably devolves into my team/your team bullshit.


FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2678 on: September 15, 2021, 10:25:40 AM »
plenty of fresh water, fresh air, good beer, great brats and outstanding cheese in Wisconsin

Let's all move there!

oh wait, ..... Packer fans!
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

847badgerfan

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2679 on: September 15, 2021, 10:26:27 AM »
And winter.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MikeDeTiger

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2680 on: September 15, 2021, 10:31:33 AM »
I like to think I'm a bit more thoughtful, even-tempered, open to discussion, and stay relatively away from the your-team-sucks, my-team-great thing.

But, also, sometimes people say some really DUMB things and I whack 'em in the head ideologically as a reflex.  

Why is COVID off limits?  Due to my job I tend to be more up on the moving parts than the average citizen.  I don't see the difference in that and every other issue that people over-simplify and ignore the reality that there is no panacea, only trade-offs and order of priorities.  

847badgerfan

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2681 on: September 15, 2021, 10:34:55 AM »
I like to think I'm a bit more thoughtful, even-tempered, open to discussion, and stay relatively away from the your-team-sucks, my-team-great thing.

But, also, sometimes people say some really DUMB things and I whack 'em in the head ideologically as a reflex. 

Why is COVID off limits?  Due to my job I tend to be more up on the moving parts than the average citizen.  I don't see the difference in that and every other issue that people over-simplify and ignore the reality that there is no panacea, only trade-offs and order of priorities. 
Only that thread on the B1G board. UTee (and I) decided early on that there is too much good information exchange there to muck it up with politics - despite the virus being politicized from the beginning.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MikeDeTiger

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2682 on: September 15, 2021, 10:55:03 AM »
Well it certainly has been that.

I'm no medical professional, but my boss is, and she also is the health authority for our county and one other.  I piddle around on the admin side, but because we're a small clinic we all have to deal with patients, particularly phone calls.  And because we get a ton of calls about COVID, doc tries to keep us briefed on the legits.  My wife is also a medical provider there, and she says I can't embarrass her (or mislead patients) by not knowing stuff or misrepresenting it.  I've formed two opinions during all this.  1)  our patients, and possibly the public at large, is really, really dumb about medical things.  Like, you can't imagine the stuff people believe, not just about this, but about medicine and their own bodies in general.  2)  as I hash stuff out with Doc and Mrs. DeTiger to make sure I'm not saying the wrong stuff, I've come to believe the messaging has been really poor from the government and health care officials.  Granted the media they often have to speak through is a hot mess, but I don't think they've done a good job of explaining the things they're trying to say.  They need editors in the worst way.  Nobody can foresee everything, but there is a basic level of anticipating the questions people will have--ask yourself "have I answered those?"--and how people are likely to misunderstand what you've said--ask yourself "have I clarified my points?"  No, they just put out sound bytes, are happy about it, the media microwaves it and folds it into whatever picture they'd like to paint that day, and boom.....our patients, even the smarter ones, are misinformed. 

Granted I am certainly not the be-all end-all of covid info.  But I do trust the people I work for, and they do their best to prep me with the basics for the public's consumption.  

utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2683 on: September 15, 2021, 11:08:25 AM »
All true.

Unfortunately it's the norm from our society not just for issues related to health care, but pretty much all other areas of law and statute, as well.

The public is bad at understanding laws, cost-benefit, and the various consequences of specific actions.

And the government is bad at messaging to them, or really, the government often intentionally misleads the public in order to push its own agenda which is NOT a public mandate.

It's all a mess.  And it's certainly not unique to the USA, it's everywhere.  In a lot of ways, it's much worse elsewhere.

847badgerfan

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2684 on: September 15, 2021, 11:10:35 AM »
Great posts.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2685 on: September 15, 2021, 11:16:36 AM »
Well it certainly has been that.

I'm no medical professional, but my boss is, and she also is the health authority for our county and one other.  I piddle around on the admin side, but because we're a small clinic we all have to deal with patients, particularly phone calls.  And because we get a ton of calls about COVID, doc tries to keep us briefed on the legits.  My wife is also a medical provider there, and she says I can't embarrass her (or mislead patients) by not knowing stuff or misrepresenting it.  I've formed two opinions during all this.  1)  our patients, and possibly the public at large, is really, really dumb about medical things.  Like, you can't imagine the stuff people believe, not just about this, but about medicine and their own bodies in general.  2)  as I hash stuff out with Doc and Mrs. DeTiger to make sure I'm not saying the wrong stuff, I've come to believe the messaging has been really poor from the government and health care officials.  Granted the media they often have to speak through is a hot mess, but I don't think they've done a good job of explaining the things they're trying to say.  They need editors in the worst way.  Nobody can foresee everything, but there is a basic level of anticipating the questions people will have--ask yourself "have I answered those?"--and how people are likely to misunderstand what you've said--ask yourself "have I clarified my points?"  No, they just put out sound bytes, are happy about it, the media microwaves it and folds it into whatever picture they'd like to paint that day, and boom.....our patients, even the smarter ones, are misinformed. 

Granted I am certainly not the be-all end-all of covid info.  But I do trust the people I work for, and they do their best to prep me with the basics for the public's consumption. 
this post is fine on the COVID thread - no politics mentioned
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2686 on: September 15, 2021, 11:28:06 AM »
this post is fine on the COVID thread - no politics mentioned
Yup.

In marketing communications, the idea is to have one key message.  The general public is either too dumb or too lazy to take away more than one meaningful message, from your campaign.

Right now, that message for COVID, should be: "Get the vaccine."

Nothing else.  Quite simply, "Get the vaccine."

Don't talk about masking, it's a distraction, it's a hot button issue, and it's significantly less effective at controlling the spread, than the vaccine is.  Orders of magnitude less effective.

So stop talking about it.  It's a conflicting message.  It's an incorrect message.  And it's a bad message.

I am of course talking specifically about 12+.  Children that are not eligible yet for the vaccine are a different story. 

But the sole message from government and all public officials right now, needs to be, get the vaccine, because it works and all outcomes are significantly improved.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #2687 on: September 15, 2021, 11:39:25 AM »
All true.

Unfortunately it's the norm from our society not just for issues related to health care, but pretty much all other areas of law and statute, as well.

The public is bad at understanding laws, cost-benefit, and the various consequences of specific actions.

And the government is bad at messaging to them, or really, the government often intentionally misleads the public in order to push its own agenda which is NOT a public mandate.

It's all a mess.  And it's certainly not unique to the USA, it's everywhere.  In a lot of ways, it's much worse elsewhere.

So, like, I'm also not an engineer, so my analogy might not be a good one.  Much in the same way you can't have a 100% efficient machine, you can only have trade-offs based on priorities/preferences and immutable limits, so it goes with public policy.  There is no one-size-fits-all panacea that magically makes everything better.  This, in spite of the fact that CNN and Fox News want me to believe such.  Anything I've ever learned about independently (I hesitate to say "researched," that's a whole other rant) or had the opportunity to learn about due to working in the field, I've found there's always a give and take, and many more factors to consider than just what gets presented in our insanely polarized society.  

Studies show that most members of both sides of the aisle tend to want the same things.  They differ in priorities and how to best achieve those things.  That's not the story we're told everyday.  Propaganda says "those people are evil idiots."  

History was never an interest of mine, but has really become one the last year or so.  I have this nagging suspicion that there are nefarious characters out there who want us this divided and blind, because it's a great opportunity to grab more control.  I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.  

At any rate, I've been as guilty as anyone else, and it's a chore for me to engage/refute ideas rather than attack the people who hold them.

Your team does suck, though.  


 

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