The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Never heard of that song. 

Oh ok then.  White guy, can't have an opinion.  Or at least can't really express your opinion, because, you know, you might offend somebody. 

Look, just think of it in these terms.

Sul Ross = bad white man, killed indians and mexicans, and fought for slavery.  Erase him from our history.  Take the statue down, everything's good right? 

Stephen F Austin = worse white man.  Indian killer and mexican killer.  In fact, maybe the father of slavery in Texas.  Helped establish slavery here, supported people who wanted it even going against the Mexican government. 

Here are some snips from Austin's wikipedia page: 

Austin continued to encourage violence both against and between the Indian tribes, culminating in 1825 with his order for all Kawankawa to be pursued and killed on sight.<sup>[19]

Arguing that the loss of slaves would be ruinous to the colony, he arranged for his settlers to receive eighty acres of land for each slave they brought with them to Texas. In August 1825, he recommended that the state government allow immigrants to bring their slaves with them through 1840, with the caveat that female grandchildren of the slaves would be freed by the age of 15, and males by age of 25.[36][34][37] His recommendation was rejected.</sup>

Austin went before the legislature and pleaded that, at the least; his original 300 colonists should be allowed to keep their slaves.^[37] He argued against the "bad faith" of freeing them, demanded reparations to slaveowners for every slave emancipated by the state, warned that the loss of slaves could leave some colonists destitute, and reasoned that freeing them would not only leave his settlers alone in the harsh Texas environment, but would also expose them to the discomfort and nuisance of living amongst freed slaves, who would become vagrants seeking retribution upon their former owners.^[42] While he waited for the legislature's verdict of his request, Austin went into a deep depression over the issue and sent his brother, Brown Austin, to further lobby the legislature on his behalf.<sup>[32][39]

Texas must be a slave country. Circumstances and unavoidable necessity compel it. It is the wish of the people there, and it is my duty to do all I can, prudently, in favor of it. I will do so.[37]"</sup>

I never said you can't have an opinion. White guys can most certainly have an opinion, and need to be part of the dialog.

The issue, as I understand it, is that we white guys, the ones who have essentially set the tenor and flavor of how America is run for around 400 years, keep having the "I don't see a problem there, so your opinion is stupid." line. We're being asked right now to listen. The concern from the black community may not seem like a big deal to us, but that's mostly because we've been able to see things through a culture that we've arranged to our own liking.

Think of it as the difference between being a guest in someone's house and having ownership of the house. When you're a guest, the host may try to make you comfortable, but you'll always be living in someone else's place. When you have an ownership stake, you can criticize the drapes and throw the dated Nagel print (gasp!) in the dumpster. Courtesy dictates you discuss it with the other owners, but they're not free to dismiss your opinion out of hand.

If the black community raises concerns about the presence of a statue, it's time we discussed it. No one's obligated a priori to a certain decision, but honest discussions are required.

We had a sign posted in the Department of Geography and Environmental Engineering at West Point.  It was allegedly a quote from Einstein.

"As a young man, my fondest dream was to become a geographer. However . . . , I thought deeply about the matter and concluded that it was far too difficult a subject. With some reluctance, I then turned to physics as an alternative."

That quotation was debunked in 1997, but it was great while it lasted.

On the eve of the Civil War, the South was about as close to a medieval, feudal society as there was in Western civilization.

my 7th grade teacher must have told me the civil war wasn't all about slavery 

my 7th grade teacher must have told me the civil war wasn't all about slavery

I don't know about your 7th-grade teacher, but my 9th-grade Alabama History teacher told me that it was all about states' rights.

A lot was about the new states, whether they would be slave or free.  The 1820 Compromise delayed the Civil War over that issue.

Without slavery, no war.

Speaker of the House Henry Clay proposed that Congress admit Missouri to the Union as a slave state, but at the same time admit Maine (which at the time was part of Massachusetts) as a free state. In February 1820, the Senate added a second part to the joint statehood bill: With the exception of Missouri, slavery would be banned in all of the former Louisiana Purchase lands north of an imaginary line drawn at 36º 30’ latitude, which ran along Missouri’s southern border.

Former President Thomas Jefferson wrote to a friend that the “Missouri question...like a fire bell in the night, awakened and filled me with terror. I considered it at once as the knell of the Union. It is hushed indeed for the moment. But this is a reprieve only, not a final sentence.”