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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1862 on: June 16, 2020, 07:24:12 AM »
I think that "they" have had to listen to what "we" have been saying for a long time.
Unsurprisingly, "you" don't seem to be listening to "me" at all.

I'm not asking "them" to listen to "us" here.  I'm asking "them" to listen to their own brothers and sisters of color, and practice what they preach. 

utee94

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1863 on: June 16, 2020, 07:44:50 AM »
I dont have a huge problem with taking down statues of confederate generals but its way too much of a stretch to tie racism to The Eyes of Texas

defendable  or not I feel very strong on this and wont take it well at all if they are successful
At UT, most (probably all) of the confederate monuments were placed on campus in the early 1900s  They were placed there at the behest of wealthy UT donor and regent, Major George Washington Littlefield, who had fought in the Civil War for the Texas Rangers of the Confederacy.  Their intent was pretty clearly to defy the "Northern Aggression" and the result has always been that they make minorities uncomfortable and angry. 

I suppose some small argument could be made in favor of maintaining monuments to Texans that also happened to be confederates, but Robert E Lee and Jefferson Davis were not Texas historical figures, and had no relation to The University of Texas.  I don't think monuments to them were ever appropriate on the UT campus, and am happy to see them removed.

I also believe buildings that are named after known and documented racists-- guys like T.S. Painter who worked actively to keep black people out of the university-- should be renamed, without a second thought.  I attended two different Physics classes in that building-- Painter Hall--  and, at the time, had no idea of Painter's racist history.  If I had known, I would have been upset, back then.

The song, well, it might or it might not be something else.  But as droog pointed out, I don't get to tell someone what they should be offended by.  And at this point, the accusation of racism is likely enough to end its use.  But perhaps a compromise can be reached, like I mentioned earlier.  New lyrics that promote inclusiveness, and a well of support from former athletes, might be enough.  Or it might not be.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1864 on: June 16, 2020, 09:01:41 AM »
These minor monuments really mean nothing to me, or much of anyone else really, except the strident.  I'm not very strident.

If they offend someone, I'd move them somewhere else, it's not a battle I would fight personally.  I'd leave it up to the locality.

We have a rather large one here that causes a ruction from time to time.  It's impressive and I imagine at some point it will be covered up or sand blasted away.

https://www.stonemountainpark.com/Activities/History-Nature/Confederate-Memorial-Carving

The largest high relief sculpture in the world, the Confederate Memorial Carving, depicts three Confederate figures of the Civil War, President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson. The entire carved surface measures three-acres, larger than a football field and Mount Rushmore. The carving of the three men towers 400 feet above the ground, measures 90 by 190 feet, and is recessed 42 feet into the mountain. The deepest point of the carving is at Lee's elbow, which is 12 feet to the mountain's surface.

The carving is actually much larger than it appears from Stone Mountain Park's attractions. Workers could easily stand on a horse's ear or inside a horse's mouth to escape a sudden rain shower. A dedication ceremony for the Confederate Memorial Carving was held on May 9, 1970. Finishing touches were completed in 1972.

FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1865 on: June 16, 2020, 09:26:32 AM »
someday they will want mount Rushmore sand blasted
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1866 on: June 16, 2020, 09:55:47 AM »
someday they will want mount Rushmore sand blasted
exactly
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1867 on: June 16, 2020, 10:13:40 AM »
and the flag of the United States of American altered

and the National Anthem lyrics changed
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1868 on: June 16, 2020, 10:17:16 AM »
I'd prefer a different anthem actually ... but it's not a big deal to me at all.


longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1869 on: June 16, 2020, 10:29:18 AM »
I'd prefer a different anthem actually ... but it's not a big deal to me at all.


well all you have to do is be offended and wala its changed
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1870 on: June 16, 2020, 10:38:03 AM »
Oddly enough, some things in life do offend me, and viola, they rarely get changed as a result of that.  So, in the main, I just decide not to be offended by much.

Looting offends me of course, but I can't really do much about it.  Crimes against persons offend me.  Telemarketers kind of offend me, but I realize they don't like their job at all.  I get letters sent to my ex-wife (since 1993) at this address which is mildly offensive to me.  These days when you move, everything follows you, except maybe what you actually WANT.

Ignorance offends me, unless it's my own.  No, really, it offends me when it is my own, and I try and remedy that if possible.

Crappy beer offends me because I lived in a time when we only had crappy beer.  Now we have good beer and people still drink swill.

People who denigrate historical items offend me, it doesn't accomplish anything.  There is a peace statue near me that someone spray painted "racist" on the base.  The statue is meant to be about peace.  Somebody scrubbed it off within one day, that unoffended me.


https://www.exploregeorgia.org/atlanta/general/historic-sites-trails-tours/peace-monument-piedmont-park


Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1871 on: June 16, 2020, 10:39:46 AM »

longhorn320

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1872 on: June 16, 2020, 11:12:28 AM »
I have always liked the statue in front of the under graduate library of the two marathon runners

I hope they arent discovered to be racist
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1873 on: June 16, 2020, 11:18:13 AM »
Unsurprisingly, "you" don't seem to be listening to "me" at all.

I'm not asking "them" to listen to "us" here.  I'm asking "them" to listen to their own brothers and sisters of color, and practice what they preach.
"Unsurprisingly"?  Ay-yi-yi!
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FearlessF

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1874 on: June 16, 2020, 11:28:04 AM »
people come and go, statues come and go

the world keeps turning
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #1875 on: June 16, 2020, 11:51:20 AM »
These minor monuments really mean nothing to me, or much of anyone else really, except the strident.  I'm not very strident.

If they offend someone, I'd move them somewhere else, it's not a battle I would fight personally.  I'd leave it up to the locality.

We have a rather large one here that causes a ruction from time to time.  It's impressive and I imagine at some point it will be covered up or sand blasted away.

https://www.stonemountainpark.com/Activities/History-Nature/Confederate-Memorial-Carving

The largest high relief sculpture in the world, the Confederate Memorial Carving, depicts three Confederate figures of the Civil War, President Jefferson Davis and Generals Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson. The entire carved surface measures three-acres, larger than a football field and Mount Rushmore. The carving of the three men towers 400 feet above the ground, measures 90 by 190 feet, and is recessed 42 feet into the mountain. The deepest point of the carving is at Lee's elbow, which is 12 feet to the mountain's surface.

The carving is actually much larger than it appears from Stone Mountain Park's attractions. Workers could easily stand on a horse's ear or inside a horse's mouth to escape a sudden rain shower. A dedication ceremony for the Confederate Memorial Carving was held on May 9, 1970. Finishing touches were completed in 1972.
Stone Mountain State Park wouldn't exist at all if it weren't a monument to white supremacy.  The 2nd KKK was founded there in 1915 by the Knights of Mary Phelan, a "fraternal" organization that had lynched the Jewish man (Leo Frank) wrongfully convicted of murdering an employee of his family's store.  Site of cross burnings for many decades.  The original suggestion for the monument was to have it also depict KKK night-riders.
Gutzon Borglum, who would go on to do Mount Rushmore, was the first sculptor.  Despite being a Yankee, he was involved with the KKK, so he was acceptable.  But he got fired.  The finished product was modest compared to the fantastic monument that he proposed.
All in all, it seems to be a gigantic "Eff You" to the black citizens of Georgia.  And it also seems that that's exactly what it was intended to do.
Do white Georgians express any unease about it?
So white supremacist Gutzon Borglum went on to do Mount Rushmore--in his mind a monument to the great white people who had built America.  I wish it had never been done.  And the same with Stone Mountain.  Because once they're up, they acquire importance that is hard to dismiss.
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