header pic

The B12 (XII) Forum, home of the 'Front Porch, y'all' at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?

 (Read 42316 times)

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #266 on: September 21, 2022, 12:20:04 PM »
It'd probably turn into a good game that fans starting out today would grow up liking, similar to the SEC arbitrarily throwing Florida and LSU together when that was never a thing, but it is now with people my age and younger.  Folks like my dad will probably never care much about Florida and wouldn't care if the game went away.  I suppose all rivalries are contrived until they've been played enough times to muster some bad blood.  

OU or something like it makes too much sense though, given the SEC's history of trying to force lsu/somebody to be a thing.  First it was Arkansas, then Florida, then A&M...the SEC has tried done its best to manufacture a rivalry for LSU, never realizing that when they did these things, we already had a nemesis in Ole Miss.  It just didn't fit their expansion goals and they needed to find somebody for the new guys to hate, and since LSU had no in-state rivals, they thought we were it.  

Dumb thing is the SEC didn't seem to realize they didn't really need to manufacture anything for the A&M game.  A significant portion of the fans were happy to see that game return.  

It also didn't stop A&M from trying to make it a thing either, which to me always came off like a lame attempt to convince everybody they didn't care about Texas and now you cajuns are our bitter rivals.  

Of course, Texas didn't care about A&M either, mostly caring about Oklahoma.  

Moral of the story is nobody cares enough about A&M to hate them the way they hate Texas....the way they say they hate us or others.....but c'mon...we all know it's still Texas.  A&M is creaming their pants right now at the thought of getting their abusive ex back.  

During the decade UT was down and A&M probably could've run a streak on them, they left the conference and racked up 0 wins to try to chip into the series deficit.  Now that they'll play again, Sark probably has UT on the right track and it'll be the same as it ever was.  LOL

I would welcome playing the eastern schools more often, though.  Ever since A&M and Mizzou joined, other than Florida, it's like we're not even in the same conference with the rest of them.  

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #267 on: September 21, 2022, 12:27:41 PM »
Permanent rivals or not you’re still going to play a lot of the SEC teams every year. IMO it will be better than what we have now. We’ve been in the SEC 10 years and only played UGa once. Never in CS. I think the direction I’m hearing is every team will play each other home and away at least once twice every four years.

I understand this from A&M's perspective.  There's not much history with anybody (outside of LSU), so it's more fun to play everybody more often.  I agree and miss the 12-team league when we rotated all the east teams for an average of playing 1 out of every 2 years.  But we do have a ton of history with the Mississippi and Alabama schools, and it's not such an obvious thing to give that up to play Tennessee and Kentucky more often.  

It's coming though, and it doesn't matter what I think.  I'll just try to make the best of it while the sport still looks like something I think of as cfb.  

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6051
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #268 on: September 21, 2022, 03:14:50 PM »
If what we are talking about--no divisions, no pods, 3 permanent rivals, games with 6 of the non-rival teams each year--becomes fact, every team will play every other team at least twice every 4 years.

That's pretty good.
Play Like a Champion Today

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17712
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #269 on: September 21, 2022, 04:23:54 PM »
If what we are talking about--no divisions, no pods, 3 permanent rivals, games with 6 of the non-rival teams each year--becomes fact, every team will play every other team at least twice every 4 years.

That's pretty good.
It really does seem like the best possible outcome from a limited selection of palatable options.  Lemonade out of lemons so to speak.

The SEC is already home to a lot of huge games that kill in the ratings.  IF Texas is finally on the upswing, and if OU can maintain being relatively good, then the ratings bonanza might surpass even the most optimistic estimates from the networks.


CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6051
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #270 on: September 21, 2022, 04:49:11 PM »
So, back to Bedlam . . . .

Bedlam football will have to die before its keepers realize what was lost
Berry Tramel
Oklahoman
Sept. 20, 2022


Bedlam football is not dead yet.

I don’t know if that’s good news or bad, for the long-term survival of the series. In the college football funhouse, you see more resurrections of rivalries than you do healings.

Maybe Bedlam has to go away before the keepers of the flame (shame?) finally come to their senses.

The latest chapter in the Bedlam saga came Tuesday when Oklahoman Brett McMurphy of the Action Network reported that athletic directors Chad Weiberg (OSU) and Joe Castiglione (OU) see little hope in the rivalry continuing after the Sooners leave the Big 12 for the Southeastern Conference, no later than 2025.

That’s not news, really. That’s what everybody has been saying for the last 15 months. Particularly in Stillwater, there’s little sense of fighting to keep alive what has become as big of a deal nationally as locally.

But you never know when someone will be inspired to counter the broken trust of conference realignment or the pettiness of hard feelings or blind devotion to a rotten scheduling system.

Never know when someone might talk to the right person.


OSU's Malcolm Rodriguez sacks OU quarterback Caleb Williams in the 2021 Bedlam game.

Like West Virginia athletic director Shane Lyons, whose Mountaineers on Sept. 1 played Pittsburgh in the Backyard Brawl, a grand old rivalry that somehow went dormant for 11 years.

“I thought it was good for us,” Lyons said. “I thought it was good for Pitt. I think it’s great for college football.”

The West Virginia-Pitt game was the 105th in the series history and drew the largest crowd in Pittsburgh sports history, 70,622. Yes, larger than any Steelers or Pirates game.

Or maybe someone will talk to new Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark, who doesn’t know Bedlam from Bedrock but was hired to market the conference to networks and corporations.

Yormark has a cult following among OSU personnel for his initial performance, but no way can Yormark like the idea of Bedlam’s demise.

He’s out there selling the Big 12 to ESPN, Fox and whoever else, and suddenly he hears the brightest bulb on the tree might be extinguished.

An annual Bedlam game means whoever holds the Big 12 rights are assured of getting the Sooners at least once every other year. That’s no big deal to ESPN, which will hold the SEC rights, but that’s a plum to any other network.

Don’t buy into Bedlam’s prowess? ESPN’s College GameDay, the iconic Saturday morning pregame show, has been to Stillwater six times over the years. Five of those games were Bedlam. OU has hosted eight GameDays; two were Bedlam.

That’s seven Bedlam GameDays in total. That matches OU-Texas and Ohio State-Michigan.

In Norman, the Sooners at least talk a good Bedlam.

“We’ll continue to remain open-minded about finding an opportunity for our football programs to meet,” Castiglione said. “It just makes sense. It makes sense. Regardless of how anybody feels about our move to the SEC, it makes sense for the two universities to continue to play or have competition in all of our sports.

“So we’ll continue to talk about that and find a way to make it happen. When opportunities develop down the road in football, we’ll find a way to make that happen. So we’ll see.”

In OSU’s defense, the Cowboys have far fewer non-conference openings in the future. OU’s future non-conference schedules became Swiss cheese when contracts with Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama and Louisiana State were canceled, since those four Southern schools soon will be conference mates with OU.

OSU’s schedule is mostly full going out at least a decade. And in the self-constructed scheduling model of only one Power Five Conference opponent per year, the Cowboys are full 13 of the next 15 years, with vacancies only in 2030 and 2031.

Of course, that’s the root of the problem. The idea that modern teams should be prudent and schedule at least two lower-caliber non-conference opponents every year. 

So we’re living through a September where the likes of Central Michigan, Texas-El Paso, Kent State and Arkansas-Pine Bluff came to Norman or Stillwater.

And future Septembers will bring Central Arkansas, South Alabama, Arkansas State and Southern Methodist in 2023; Temple and Tulane in 2024; Tulsa and Illinois State in 2025; Murray State, New Mexico and UTEP in 2026; Western Illinois and Tulsa in 2017; Southeastern Louisiana and Temple in 2018; Tulsa in 2029; Tulsa in 2030; Tulsa in 2031; and Tulsa in 2033.

The Tulsa serieses are honorable, for both the eight scheduled with OSU and two with OU. In-state, often competitive, understandable. 

But those other games are an affront to fans. NFL-style exhibitions that are much more theatrical performances than athletic contests. Nothing but financial endeavors. Part scripted (professional wrestling) and part corrupt (boxing) and part little league (one-sided).

OU, OSU and most of big-time college football have built financial models that require more home games than road games. 

Only a few revolutionaries have fought the system. Georgia, West Virginia, Florida. Occasionally a few others.

"From my perspective, the only way we would do that is if that was what everyone in the Power Five was doing," Weiberg said. "Otherwise, you’re putting your program at a potential competitive disadvantage. I know a few do that occasionally. West Virginia did it this year. But until that becomes the standard, I don’t imagine either one of us will do that as a rule.

And when realignment occurs, vocal fan bases lose their minds and say good riddance. Don’t need them, say Sooners. We’ll be fine without them, say Cowboys. 

Except in a few years, watching Temple and Murray State, or even Mississippi State and Central Florida, fans will remember those wild Bedlam games – 37-33, 48-47, 62-52, 38-35 in overtime, 51-48 in overtime, 47-41, 61-41 – and look back longingly at what had become the best annual sporting event in the state.

Texas A&M-Texas died. So did Texas-Arkansas. And OU-Nebraska. And Kansas-Missouri. And Brigham Young-Utah. And Pitt-West Virginia. And Penn State-Pitt.

Periodic, temporary resumptions have ensued for some. But college football is worse off.

“Bedlam … that’s a great college football game,” West Virginia’s Lyons said. “Great atmosphere. Realignment has shifted scheduling. But as college football leaders, I think it’s our job to fit as much as you can in non-conference schedules.”

Not enough college football leaders believe like Lyons. Or act upon their beliefs.

But Castiglione at least retains some optimism.

“I believe in the long run we will find a way,” Joe C. said. “I do understand some of the difficulty in the earlier years, because of the non-conference schedules that have been built.

“We may have a little more flexibility than they do, and that may be the reason why they aren’t really interested or able. It could be both. I’ve had cordial conversations with Chad Weiberg about this. I understand the logistical challenges, too.”

The logistical challenges are this. Bedlam might have to die for its keepers to realize what will be missed when it’s gone.

Berry Tramel: Berry can be reached at 405-760-8080 or at btramel@oklahoman.com.
Play Like a Champion Today

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #271 on: September 22, 2022, 12:15:03 PM »
If what we are talking about--no divisions, no pods, 3 permanent rivals, games with 6 of the non-rival teams each year--becomes fact, every team will play every other team at least twice every 4 years.

That's pretty good.

Like I said, it has its pros and cons.  I really do like the idea of playing the eastern teams more often, and the B12 newcomers too.  otoh, losing either/both of the Alabama schools or even MSU annually....well, how did Sooners feel when Nebraska got relegated to 2 out of every 4 years?  Just not the same, I'd wager. 

fwiw, we could've been seeing cross-division schools more often as it is.  The tie-ins were done to preserve Bama/Tenn and UGA/AU, but I've seen models that locked those games in yet allowed everyone else to rotate without tie-ins.  But the SEC generally lacks that sort of cleverness.  

I wonder how the SEC CG would be handled in this proposed format.  

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37567
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #272 on: September 22, 2022, 12:16:24 PM »
I wonder how the SEC CG would be handled in this proposed format. 
yer asking the experts - :57:
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6051
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #273 on: September 22, 2022, 01:45:40 PM »
Like I said, it has its pros and cons.  I really do like the idea of playing the eastern teams more often, and the B12 newcomers too.  otoh, losing either/both of the Alabama schools or even MSU annually....well, how did Sooners feel when Nebraska got relegated to 2 out of every 4 years?  Just not the same, I'd wager.
My "seal of approval" was from the perspective of the new teams entering the conference. I understand why the 14 teams already there could view it differently.

Sad to say, in 1996, many Sooner fans didn't mind having the series with Nebraska cut in half, as Nebraska was spending the mid-'90s kicking OU's ass. That's why OU was uninterested in any "annual rivalry" plan. On further reflection, that was shortsighted and small-minded.

Quote
fwiw, we could've been seeing cross-division schools more often as it is.  The tie-ins were done to preserve Bama/Tenn and UGA/AU, but I've seen models that locked those games in yet allowed everyone else to rotate without tie-ins.  But the SEC generally lacks that sort of cleverness. 

I wonder how the SEC CG would be handled in this proposed format.
SEC scheduling--to this outsider--has forever been like Churchill's description of the USSR: "a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." Some teams played each other every year for decades, while others went decades without playing each other. And that was even before expansion and the formation of divisions.
I think that the CCG would be between the two teams with the best records, with the tie-breakers being quite complex.
Play Like a Champion Today

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71604
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #274 on: September 23, 2022, 08:14:15 AM »
SEC scheduling once was up to the schools if they played six conference games.  GaTech would not play a Miss school at all, ever, for decades, as Noted (Bobby Dodd and other coaches had absolute power here).

Gigem

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2144
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #275 on: September 26, 2022, 11:06:14 PM »
A&M and LSU have a history going as far back as CFB goes.  We've played 60 games total, and amazingly 39 of those were in Louisiana.  A lot of the older generation lamented the loss of the LSU game due to the SEC expansion in the 90's.  Up until that point we were doing very well against them, and it gave us a good exposure to a program outside the SWC/Texas area.  

LSU has really had our number in the SEC, winning 2 and losing the other 9.  There have been some close matches, and some LSU blowouts as well.  Even when LSU was not having a great year they seemed to be able to pull out a win one way or another.  

I'd like for LSU to be on our permanent rival list, obviously along with Texas.  For the 3rd school I haven't decided, but I like the idea of playing a good program where the game would mean something.  I have enjoyed our series with Florida, and the games have been close and competitive.  Obviously this would give us a very tough schedule, but hell any SEC schedule would be tough.  We would end up playing them 50% of the time anyways, along with all the other SEC programs like OU and Bama.  

On the other hand, we've won 90% of our Arkansas games.   Hmmmmmm....

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17712
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #276 on: September 26, 2022, 11:37:20 PM »
Texas, LSU, Arkanpig would be a nice 3-team perma-schedule for the Ags.  Lots of history and tradition in those series, and true regional importance for recruiting, bragging rights, etc.

MikeDeTiger

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 2990
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #277 on: September 27, 2022, 10:52:03 AM »

LSU has really had our number in the SEC, winning 2 and losing the other 9.  There have been some close matches, and some LSU blowouts as well.  Even when LSU was not having a great year they seemed to be able to pull out a win one way or another. 

2-9 is actually pretty impressive, mathematically,  considering A&M and LSU have met only 10 times as SEC-mates.  

I appreciate trying to give us the extra win, but if we're going that route, LSU is actually 11-2 against the Aggies in that span, due to 2018 wherein the Tigers won the game 3 times before losing it.  

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71604
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #278 on: September 27, 2022, 10:56:39 AM »
UT, LSU, Arky would be a tough draw in many years relatively speaking.

They might prefer Mizzou in the mix.

utee94

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 17712
  • Liked:
Re: OU-UT Move to SEC in 2024?
« Reply #279 on: September 27, 2022, 11:38:17 AM »
UT, LSU, Arky would be a tough draw in many years relatively speaking.

They might prefer Mizzou in the mix.

Well not EVERYbody is going to get to schedule Vandy and Mizzou...

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.