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Topic: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.

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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5502 on: Today at 07:15:15 AM »
I know the "technical" details that differ, they look the same to me, basically, as a tourist.  A LOT of folks ponder how an Iowa would fare against Yamato.  Some credibly say it would come down to a bit of luck, one on one, in such a hypothetical.  An early hit in such an engagement could be critical of course, especially with an 18.1 incher.


CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5503 on: Today at 12:27:31 PM »
Details, schmetails, they all look alike to you. To my eye, the South Dakotas look very different, while the North Carolinas and Iowas look similar to each other. I think that the North Carolinas were the most beautiful battleships ever built.

If I were Bull Halsey, for one thing, I would try not to run my fleet through typhoons twice in the same summer. But, for another thing, I would want an advantage in numbers if it came down to a surface action against Yamato or Musashi. I think I'd want a night action, where my radar gunnery would have an advantage.

Those 18.1"/45 guns were not to be sneezed at, but they weren't quite as powerful as one might expect. They fired a lighter shell than the 18" guns that the Brits had on their two Courageous-class "large light cruisers" in WWI. They had an advantage over the 16"/50 guns on the Iowas, but not much of one.

Interesting article here.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5504 on: Today at 12:41:31 PM »
The best analysis I came across was about that lucky first shot, by either side, akin to the Bismark being unabled by biplane launched torpedoes.

The Iowas would have a speed advantage and probably a first detection advantage, presume one-v-one.  Maybe their scout planes find the other side before radar.  They close range and both fire about the same time at the other.  Iowas could fire faster, almost twice as fast, so they'd be sending more "lead" down range over time.  The Iowas could also dart about some, changing course and speed to throw off long range gunnery.  But it would come down to luck, I think.  Maybe a first hit was not terribly damaging, but even a close miss could buckle plates perhaps and slow the ship.  Too many variables.

I have a hunch torpedoes were more effective than 16 inchers.

CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5505 on: Today at 12:49:20 PM »
Since there's no softball thread, I'll post the softball results here.

OU beat Texas 5-1 in the Big 12 tournament championship game last night. Texas finished 1st in the regular season, OU 2nd. Texas was ranked #1 nationally, oSu 2nd, Tennessee 3rd, and OU 4th. All of those teams except OU lost yesterday. It would seem that OU and Texas will be seeded 1st and 2nd for the NCAA Tournament, but--I think--probably not in that order.

That was OU's 9th Big 12 tournament championship in the 22 years that it was held. Texas is next with 4. Kansas and Oklahoma State have each won once. Of former teams, Nebraska had 3, Missouri had 2, and Texas A&M had 1. The 2019 tournament was not completed due to rain.

In 3 of Texas' wins, Cat Osterman was the MOP. Jennifer Lizama of Nebraska won it twice, once when the Huskers did not win the championship. Nobody else has won it more than once and nobody but Lizama has won it when her team did not win the championship.
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CWSooner

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5506 on: Today at 12:57:06 PM »
The best analysis I came across was about that lucky first shot, by either side, akin to the Bismark being unabled by biplane launched torpedoes.

The Iowas would have a speed advantage and probably a first detection advantage, presume one-v-one.  Maybe their scout planes find the other side before radar.  They close range and both fire about the same time at the other.  Iowas could fire faster, almost twice as fast, so they'd be sending more "lead" down range over time.  The Iowas could also dart about some, changing course and speed to throw off long range gunnery.  But it would come down to luck, I think.  Maybe a first hit was not terribly damaging, but even a close miss could buckle plates perhaps and slow the ship.  Too many variables.

I have a hunch torpedoes were more effective than 16 inchers.
I think all of that is probably right.
Speaking of scout planes, it's interesting that the Kido Butai, the Japanese carrier task force, depended on the float planes of its cruiser escorts to search for the enemy. Or at least that was the case at Midway, where the scout from Tone was late launching and was thus critically late in finding the U.S. carriers.
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Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5507 on: Today at 01:01:46 PM »
It makes some sense to me, the cruisers and BBs would have planes and crews designed specifically for scouting, not attack or air to air.  I think the US usually had enough carrier planes to scout, and the Dauntlesses would carry a 500 pounder when scouting often as not.

So, the Japanese could devote their carrier air groups solely to attack (and some defense) without wasting some planes on scouting.

It's a bit amusing to think the early concept of a carrier was to scout for the main battle fleet.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Porch, y'all. pull up a seat and kick back.
« Reply #5508 on: Today at 01:14:20 PM »
A more realistic battle would of course involve fleets of some sort.  I think one could limit said fleets to something like say 3 BBs on each side, 4 heavy cruisers (CA) and 6 light cruisers (CL) and maybe 12 destroyers (DDs).  I don't know the actual makeup of Admiral Lee's fast BB fleet so I'm guessing.

Then it still would come down to luck, the Japanese destroyers might get in and launch their Long Lances and get some hits that would cause havock, and at least disrupt the fleet formations.

 

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