~2018 NFL Thread~

[Kris60]

Mike Florio/Chris Simms on Pro Football Talk,Cornheiser/Wilbon on PTI both programs recommended/directed at the NFL failed attempt to correct flawed officiating.They made it sound like a bag of rats in a burning meth lab.This subject isn't something that popped into my imagination.All 4 men(as do I) said NO effectively got jobbed right the hell out of the Title Game.Cornheiser called it the worst no call he's ever seen.Wilbon wasn't even that flattering.So you see men who've watched & covered more football than you and I think it's a shit sandwich.And can be corrected.Hell if you were watching live on Fox their in house official they go to for explanations flat out said the Rams DB could have been called for targeting also.They also brought up the blatantly bad call on the Chiefs Lineman who got called for roughing for getting  hand on Brady's shoulder pad.

Yeah, everybody agrees yesterday that it was a blown call. No one is debating that.  What we are debating is what should be done and the ramifications of changing challenge rules.
I explained in as much detail as I could what I felt the consequences could be in changing the rules.  Your response was to ignore those points and tell me guys on tv also thought the rules needed changed.
I love how the media is treated with contempt until they agree with someone on an issue and then their opinions are put on a pedestal.  I’d love to debate all those guys on the issue. But being on tv doesn’t elevate their opinion to me in the slightest.

[Kris60]

I think Romo is great. When Brady audibled on the short yardage play and ran a play to the right just like Romo said he would I just started laughing.

He diagnoses plays better than anyone I’ve ever seen. Spielmann is great at that too.

[MrNubbz]

I explained in as much detail as I could what I felt the consequences could be in changing the rules.  Your response was to ignore those points and tell me guys on tv also thought the rules needed changed.

Done patting yourself on the back,you pretty much ignored,misunderstood or blew past the points I was attempting to make.Scott Van Pelt last nite said what the others panned.That A)One of the best 2 Teams in football is sitting (but hey you have no problem with that),And B)they already have a system and technology in place to remedy the situation.The subject matter hardly just started coming up in last week.There would be a flag for every quarter or 2 a half - not deep stuff.In a nutshell collectively EVERYTHING should be reviewable and contestable.Hard to see where you are having a problem with this or making me the object of your confusion.Is the concept of reviewing  any play just a little too complex?Happy New Year

[Kris60]

Done patting yourself on the back,you pretty much ignored,misunderstood or blew past the points I was attempting to make.Scott Van Pelt last nite said what the others panned.That A)One of the best 2 Teams in football is sitting (but hey you have no problem with that),And B)they already have a system and technology in place to remedy the situation.The subject matter hardly just started coming up in last week.There would be a flag for every quarter or 2 a half - not deep stuff.In a nutshell collectively EVERYTHING should be reviewable and contestable.Hard to see where you are having a problem with this or making me the object of your confusion.Is the concept of reviewing  any play just a little too complex?Happy New Year

My God man, yes I understand what you are saying.  For whatever reason you don’t seem to grasp what I’m saying.  I know you want to be able to review every call.  I understand the parameters you are suggesting (two challenges per half).  I understand the Saints were a victim of a very bad call Sunday.  I understand all of that.
What I have painstakingly tried to do is express what I feel the drawbacks would be if those changes went into effect.  Slippery slopes, unintentional consequences, coaches throwing challenging flags in hopes of finding anything to negate a big play for the other team.  You haven’t addressed those points or offered a counter to anything I’ve said.  You just keep saying how many guys on tv think a change should be made.  I don’t care what they think because they aren’t addressing the downside of changing the rules either and I do think there would be a downside.

[FearlessF]

I think Romo is great. When Brady audibled on the short yardage play and ran a play to the right just like Romo said he would I just started laughing.

He diagnoses plays better than anyone I’ve ever seen. Spielmann is great at that too.

hah, when Tony gets a big head from all the TV love and loses his sparkle, perhaps he can catch on as a defensive coach

[MrNubbz]

The only thing you've stated with any degree of accuracy is "What’s obvious to me may not be to you and vice versa".That we can agree on.There were other "obvious missed calls" and "exceptions to the rule" that were noticed by others and not just this poor misguided skragg.You stated "also don’t want every big scoring play at the end of a game ending with a challenge flag being thrown on the field.  And that is exactly what would happen".Well I disagree because the amount of bad angles and judgements that follow flourish all game long.A missed call in the 1st Qtr in the end will have the same effect on the game as one missed in the 4th.People forget this while reaching for another beer

[FearlessF]

all scoring plays are reviewed now

not just big plays or plays at the end

too many reviews

[Kris60]

all scoring plays are reviewed now

not just big plays or plays at the end

too many reviews

Yeah, scoring plays are reviewed now to see things like if the ball crossed the plane, was the ball carrier down, was the it a catch, etc.  
What Nubbz is suggesting is coaches be given two challenges per half to challenge EVERYTHING.  And that includes if a flag was erroneously thrown or not thrown.  I think that would open up a big can of worms.  So, if a team gives up a big play the coach can throw the challenge flag and basically challenge anything he wants in hopes of negating the play.  He doesn’t even have to have a strong conviction about what he’s challenging.  He can just throw something against the wall and hope it sticks.
When Ryen Russillo was on ESPN Radio on more than one occasion he referenced Mike Tice frequently trying to use challenges like this because he didn’t have a firm grasp on the challenge rules anyway.  If a team made a big play against the Vikings Tice was known to ask an official or another coach, “What can I challenge on that?”
I can envision scenarios where a coach throws out a challenge flag and when the official asks what he’s challenging saying, “I don’t know yet” as he has people upstairs furiously looking at replays to search for infractions.
Besides any of that penalties like PI’s and holds are highly subjective anyway.  Coaches wouldn’t necessarily be seeking to get the call right as much as they would just be seeking a second opinion with the replay official’s opinion always being the one that trumps all.  
I also think it creates a bunch of slippery slope scenarios.  What if the rule were already in place when PI in the Saints game had occurred and Sean Payton were out of challenges?  Then the outcry would be that coaches really shouldn’t just be limited to two.  It should be 3, or 5, or even unlimited.  What if the coach challenged a left tackle holding but on review the whole country saw the center with a clear hands to the face infraction but replay couldn’t change that because it wasn’t what the coach specificed he wanted reviewed?  Then the outcry would be if the replay official notices any infraction on review he has carte blanche to change anything he sees fit.
I just think it’s a massive overreaction and would create its own set of problems.

[FearlessF]

IMO, there are too many reviews and challenges now

add another zebra or two running around with their eyeballs, but don't stop the game for more than 30 seconds

TV timeouts to run 2 minutes of advertising cause me to drink too much beer

[MrNubbz]

Yeah, scoring plays are reviewed now to see things like if the ball crossed the plane, was the ball carrier down, was the it a catch, etc.  
What Nubbz is suggesting is coaches be given two challenges per half to challenge EVERYTHING.

There's the problem I said ANYTHING(sans the coin flip),not everything,big difference.It's obvious the officials have needed the help available that hasn't been implemented.This cud has been chewed for a long time.Again by people who've watched at least much football as you and I and get paid to do so.There's just too much on the line - money,efforts,time with the tools present for a quick fix.In 1979 the AFC title game the Houston Oilers got screwed out of a TD in Pittsburgh that sends them to the Super Bowl.Think it was Pastorini to Carpenter both feet in yet the Zebras said no.Oh ya they had replay back then.Yet here we are 40 yrs later and abysmal calls are still faffing up what could be a better product.That's some pioneering improvement over 4 decades right there - said no one ever

[Mdot21]

last thing the NFL needs is more game stoppage and reviews. Uh, no thanks. Only thing the NFL might need to change is the OT format. It's not fair. Play the entire 15 mins QTR or go the college route imo.

New Orleans got jobbed but they still had opportunities to win that game after that no-call and they blew them all. Sean Payton once again beating himself by trying to show everyone how smart he is. RUN THE DAMN BALL. Burn clock. Make them use their TOs.

To the people crying about the refs helping the Patriots, please. The overturn on Eldeman punt muff was a close one, but when they reviewed all the different angles live on tv, sure looked like he never touched it miraculously. Didn't even matter because the very next play Butterfingers Eldeman let a ball that hit him in two hands slip through his fingers and fly into the air and get intercepted.

As for the phantom roughing the passer, yes that call was bullshit, but the Chiefs actually got off lucky on that one- because Eldeman was CLEARLY pass interfered with as the Chiefs DB virtually had Eldemen in a headlock on that play. That PI would've been much longer than 15 yards. If anything the Patriots got jobbed with the calls most of that game imo. Patriots DB's got called for every freaking PI and defensive holding under the sun. They couldn't even sneeze near the Chiefs receivers or they'd get a call. Kansas City on the other hand got away with blatant holding and PI on New England receivers all game long. All game long. Was one even called on KC? Cause I don't remember it. Eric Berry was basically riding Gronkowski's back like he was on a roller coaster all game long and didn't get called once.

Flat out, the better team won. Kansas City has scary offensive firepower and their young QB is already great, but man does their defense really just suck. Their LB's are scrubs and their secondary is trash. New England doesn't have as good of personnel- because KC has some elite pass rushers and Eric Berry when healthy and not holding like a bitch is as a great a safety as there is in the league- but New England plays within their scheme better and doesn't make nearly as many stupid plays on defense.

Brady with another virtuoso performance late to seal the win. Really what else can you say. Dude really is the baddest mf'er on the planet like he said. He has moved beyond Jordan to me. He is the greatest athlete in American sports history in my opinion.

[Kris60]

There's the problem I said ANYTHING(sans the coin flip),not everything,big difference.It's obvious the officials have needed the help available that hasn't been implemented.This cud has been chewed for a long time.Again by people who've watched at least much football as you and I and get paid to do so.There's just too much on the line - money,efforts,time with the tools present for a quick fix.In 1979 the AFC title game the Houston Oilers got screwed out of a TD in Pittsburgh that sends them to the Super Bowl.Think it was Pastorini to Carpenter both feet in yet the Zebras said no.Oh ya they had replay back then.Yet here we are 40 yrs later and abysmal calls are still faffing up what could be a better product.That's some pioneering improvement over 4 decades right there - said no one ever

The anything/everything wording is semantics.  I am fully  aware you aren’t saying a coach can literally ask the booth to look at everything on a given play.
Look, I’m not suggesting your proposal would have no positive effects.  Calls like the missed PI in the Saints game could be rectified and that’s a good thing.  But you have to weigh the potential pros and the potential cons and, for me, there are enough potential cons that I wouldn’t change the review rule.

[betarhoalphadelta]

TV timeouts to run 2 minutes of advertising cause me to drink too much beer

Every cloud has a silver lining. 

[MrNubbz]

The anything/everything wording is semantics.  I am fully  aware you aren’t saying a coach can literally ask the booth to look at everything on a given play.
Look, I’m not suggesting your proposal would have no positive effects.  Calls like the missed PI in the Saints game could be rectified and that’s a good thing.  But you have to weigh the potential pros and the potential cons and, for me, there are enough potential cons that I wouldn’t change the review rule.

It's not semantics and I'm flattered that you think it's my proposal.Afore mentioned analysts/reporters/announcers have bandyied about those concepts on their programs for quite some time.Look I have a lawn to mow,leaves to rake,gutters to clean,storm windows to install,oil to change and beer to drink - i don't want the games dragging on any longer either.But the abhorrent exceptions being made because that's just the way it's always been really needs to go away.The quicker the better